For the last few weeks I've moaned about wanting Hibbert dropped and Neville in as right back, but why add to the changes in the back four by doing it now? Similarly why is Baines suddenly not first choice as LB? With so many changes for such a crucial game, is it any wonder we played like a gang of lads who?d only just met in pub car park?
It was pathetic how easily they walked through us in the first half ? Jagielka was a mere observer (he probably missed Neville beside him). But do we change our formation to match them in midfield when they are blatantly out passing us? No. We just continued to go long and wonder why we couldn?t get out of our own half.
Even when we do go 3:2 up ,who do we bring on? Hibbert. Was any Everton supporter in the land sitting there with this tactical masterpiece in their head? What was Carsley even doing there? And incidentally, why didn?t Andy van der Meyde travel?
McFadden?s goal could easily have missed the target and (the outstanding) Lescott?s scuffed goal is nothing to get excited about (check out McFaddens ?shot? in the build up) ? yet again we?ve more than rode out luck.
I?m dead pleased for Victor and he deserves to start with McFadden ahead of Yakuboob. Yes, Everton have made progress up the league in the last few seasons, but Moyes needs help because he just isn?t positive enough when it comes to showing what is now a decent set of players how to play football.
I?m made up we?re in the group stages but unless we started making a habit of being comfortable in possession (ie, passing the ball), it?s going to be a stormy and short European ride.
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1 Posted 05/10/2007 at 05:16:40
2 Posted 05/10/2007 at 06:04:00
Oh well, I guess the 2 of you would be great Everton managers. Then we’d win the league, fa cup, league cup and the champions league all in 1 season.
3 Posted 05/10/2007 at 06:14:43
Andy van der Meyde has a touch of the Bergkamps. No, sadly not his devastating ability and model professionalism, he doesn?t like to fly. Seeing as he couldn?t get five minutes at the end of the ?Boro game when we were 2-0 up, maybe Moyes told him not to bother putting himself through the agony of a flight terminating on a "patchwork runway" (ref: evertonfc.com).
4 Posted 05/10/2007 at 06:38:50
I thought Osman , Jagielka , Piennar were none existant and as great a servant as Stubbs is his legs aren’t there anymore. He will be caught out by the better sides in Euorope. Mcfadden scored but he still seems to moan at the ref more than anything.
On the olus side Lescott was good and it was nice to see Howard showing some leadership at the back and letting our defence know how he felt.
Arteta was quiet but when he gets the ball he always looks for a blue shirt rather than the hoof ball so often selected by our defence.
The midfield needs soring to protect our defence and then feed our attack. Rome wasn’t built in a day but lets hope now some confidence will return and results will follow.
5 Posted 05/10/2007 at 06:52:53
The second half last night was a far cry from the first - moyes is a fantastic motivator- and the boys came back from adversity away from home to win against a quite decent underrated european team. Lets not forget Metalist have earned the right to be there as much as we have and we should give them the respect they deserve. They certainly showed they could play. It’s ignorance not necessarily a lack of quality that caused us problems in this tie, that should be our lesson! No games in Europe are easy,
6 Posted 05/10/2007 at 07:27:17
And Adam, the mopers live is this cave heyd even complain if we won the bloody thing.
7 Posted 05/10/2007 at 07:52:59
However we should all commend the spirt in the second. Happy we are thru - but we must do better to survive.
However Yakubu - what a disappointment! He has a lot to do to convince any of us he was worth £11m.
8 Posted 05/10/2007 at 08:15:28
As for ant, what’s wrong with Moyes’ celebration? For him, this was a very very important match of his Everton career. If we failed to get to the group stage, I will be the first (and I believe many more will do the same) to call for his head. A win means 4 more European matches for the team, I would celebrate as if I had just won a cup myself.
9 Posted 05/10/2007 at 08:38:28
10 Posted 05/10/2007 at 08:47:08
11 Posted 05/10/2007 at 08:50:01
The first half was the most abject Everton performance I can remember in a long time.
By all means, be delighted we’re through - I am - but don’t let that cloud your judgement over just how much better we need to be to seriously compete.
I really hope the group games will help the players and Moyes learn and grow, but in Moyes’s case, I doubt it.
12 Posted 05/10/2007 at 08:19:12
It was ugly last night and we were lucky. I’ll take both of those if required.
BUT we made it harder for ourselves by ringing so many changes.
AND WHY is Moyes so slow to realise that Metalist aren’t there for a laugh? I thought we?d all found that out at Goodison.
AND WHEN will we realise that passing isn?t the preserve of star players, but is in fact the ONLY way to remain in any way in control of a game. It?s also something we should EXPECT a premiership team of our standing to be capable of or at the very least trying to do.
It’s not about moaning, it’s about being realistic and trying to eradicate what’s blatantly weak about us yet totally fixable.
ie Don?t make major selection changes for no apparent reason; do change formation when a team is consistently strolling through the middle; do look at the evidence ? playing not so accurate long balls into our forwards typically results in us merely giving away possession and subsequently finding ourselves under another attack.
Only a fool would expect crappy + jammy football to return results week in week out.
Lyndon, AVM has had six weeks to catch the bus.
13 Posted 05/10/2007 at 09:19:22
14 Posted 05/10/2007 at 09:23:50
If Moyes had started with Hibbert and kept Yobo on the bench, I am sure you would be moaning that he is naive for playing our 3rd choice right back and for not using the pace of Yobo in defence.... You can’t win with some of the folks here.
Yes, by all account is wasn’t pretty. But 3rd win in a row, Liverpool lost at home, more Euro games to look forward to..thats 3 very good reasons to celebrate a wonderful week!
15 Posted 05/10/2007 at 09:40:44
16 Posted 05/10/2007 at 09:38:28
17 Posted 05/10/2007 at 09:39:06
18 Posted 05/10/2007 at 09:56:54
19 Posted 05/10/2007 at 09:21:44
I have said this before on this site WE WILL WIN NOTHING PLAYING THIS HOOFBALL!
Tonight THANK GOD we got incredibly lucky. Once again a group of Ukrainians outplayed our talented squad, how is this possible? Simple, they are coached to pass and move, create space for themselves, make themselves available for a pass etc. etc. etc. you know the rest.
We once again played most of the match hoofing the ball up the field, the midfielders giving the ball to the defenders to CREATE chances by then hoofing the ball up field. Our once acclaimed defence looking pathetic because of the tactics employed by Moyes.
How anyone can say that we are a good team because we can win when we are playing shite is beyond me. I’ve got news for you, we only win when we are playing shite because that is the only way we play.
I am delighted that we are through and I am naturally an optimist (Believe it or not, expecially with regards to Everton) however I have seen enough of Moyeses brand of football to know that we are going nowhere fast. YES I know we just qualified for the group stages of the UEFA Cup (And I will be going to the games away in Europe, before I get slagged off for not supporting my beloved blues) but we WILL get humiliated if we come up against a really good team playing this shite.
Team spirit is great, every successful team needs it, but that can come via many methods, my prefered one is by playing good attractive football, this then turns in to winning matches and a better team spirit. Last night Jagielka looked destroyed, Yakubu bewildered, Neville useless, Osman ineffective, Arteta and Piennar frustrated, I could go on. For me, even our famed team spirit is very fragile at the moment, I suspect that many of the players KNOW we are playing shite football and have lost confidence that they can actually win a game by playing BETTER than the oppositiion. This can soon lead to a demoralized squad. Hopefully getting into the group stages where we have 4 guaranteed matches will help to repair this but I doubt it if we come up against some genuinely good passing teams.
I’m really looking forward to going over to Europe with my fellow Evertonians, but i am not looking forward to the shite that Moyes will serve up.
20 Posted 05/10/2007 at 10:10:15
21 Posted 05/10/2007 at 10:15:50
22 Posted 05/10/2007 at 10:17:40
I am still in shock that we actually won!
No problem with Moyes celebrating; it at least shows that he has passion for the Everton cause
Parts of the game sent my mind back to a certain Wimbledon affair.
In the first half we were ripped apart and a better quality team would have *really* embarrassed us.
Jags was just not there and you must ask is he good enough to play in the Premiership?
What about Beattie???.oops sorry Yak! Slow, disinterested and shown up by Anichebe. Given his efforts, you have to wonder if Moyes bought him.
There are plus points Lescott, Anichebe and Howard all stood out and yes, Stubbs is
getting on a bit, but his presence is seen.
Basically, we were very lucky, but hey, we won and have Tommy and Tim to come back.
23 Posted 05/10/2007 at 10:04:51
1. I seriously wonder whether Jagielka can cut it at this level. Just where is his best/actual position. It clearly isnt in midfield because last night and sunday proved that he doesnt have a clue, he leaves acres of space and just seems at a loss. If we spent that kind of money on a right back who can just about cover yobo in january then im worried. we should have just bought a new centre back.
2- The glaringly obvious thing for me is that even with players fit, we lack a strong driving force in the midfield (fingers crossed for appiah in january...) Perhaps cahill brings ’bite’ but we lack that strong leader who can rally the troops when the chips are down. The midfielder that can lead by example. Without wanting to hark back to seasons past its so unfortunate that we were so close to sissoko.
3- I think the criticism of Yakubu is unfair. He is at a new club and has to get used to how we play, (poor boy!) If all our midfield do is lump balls up to him then what is he to do. Last night that is all we did, and when he controlled it he was met with two kharkiv defenders. Remember the old ’feed the yak and he will score’. I honestly believe that, and im not too fussed if he doesnt do all the chasing as long as we somehow discover a bit of quality that can provide him with the ball to put in the back of the net...i hate to say it but a certain dutch no.7 is coming to mind.
To all evertonians, lets keep the faith with yak. his record speaks for itself, lets not do what some fans did with beattie and make him the whipping boy for the lack of craft and guile apparent in our squad.
24 Posted 05/10/2007 at 10:18:26
What is of particular concern to me is that Yakubu looks terrible. He looks slow, his movement is poor and he struggles to hold up the ball. I hope that I am made to eat my words but 11 million quid is a lot of money to a team like Everton and i really hope that he comes good.
But let’s end on a positive. We won !
25 Posted 05/10/2007 at 10:25:58
26 Posted 05/10/2007 at 10:56:42
Give credit where credit is due Metalist were a far better team than they were given credit for we went there and knocked them out, which is something Blackburn couldn’t do against an unknown Greek team.
27 Posted 05/10/2007 at 10:54:12
If we can play shite and still win then bring it on... what will happen when we actually play well??
28 Posted 05/10/2007 at 10:56:51
Luck had absolutely nothing to do with it, you make that yourself.Last night on the European stage our manager showed he is up there with the very best.
29 Posted 05/10/2007 at 11:04:48
I hate to say it but his honesty is missing here.
We were shite, but still in it. Can we last out to January?
I fucking hope so. I said yesterday folklore starts in places like the Ukraine, and I am jealous of all those great people who made it. They deserve to see a massive improvement in our next european game.
As well as a full squad of players we need a lot more nous from the manager and his coaching team.
Looking back, remember the impact when Colin Harvey was promoted o first team coach. I am not saying that calibre is in the club but we should start looking if the progress is to continue.
30 Posted 05/10/2007 at 11:11:28
31 Posted 05/10/2007 at 10:59:31
Anyone from Plymouth to Carlisle would look at a team which was 5th in the league...had progressed through to the next stage of two competitions which included winning against an excellent team in distant Ukraine after being behind twice and which had an English board with a twice manager of the year manager at the helm....with nothing but envy.
They would be incredulous that so called supporters of this club were waging a debilitating...for real supporters...guerrilla war against the manager because his side are not Brazil 1970 in terms of ’entertainment value !!!
32 Posted 05/10/2007 at 11:05:02
On the players, Arteta for me was the biggest disappointment. Not that he was the worse player but simply because he’s our best player by a country mile and didn’t show it last night. Let’s hope again that was down to nerves.
So come on, let’s for once bask in a little bit of luck and a whole lot of glory!
33 Posted 05/10/2007 at 11:25:21
We scraped through beat Bayern and won the cup against Rapid Vienna.
Metalist are a far better side than UCD was, bring on the big boys now
34 Posted 05/10/2007 at 11:17:10
35 Posted 05/10/2007 at 11:18:59
This just goes to show the lengths some people will go to in order to be negative on here. You could make the above comment about any goal that has ever been scored by anyone. McFadden’s goal did not miss the target, hence the fact that it was a goal. And not only was it a goal, it was a very good goal. You appear almost resentful that we scored.
We have seen the redsh*te be comprehensively outplayed year on year in the Champions League and manage to scrape through on away goals and odd refereeing decisions time after time. Do you think their supporters whinge about it? Of course they don’t. As long as you are in it you can win it. That’s all that matters.
36 Posted 05/10/2007 at 11:36:59
We appear to have completely lost our midfield. We seriosuly struggled to string more than 2 or 3 passes together before giving away possession. OK we have a few players out but the replacements just seem woefully out of their depth.
Thank christ their pitch was a shocker otherwise they would have been through us even easier. That said if you are going to play ugly...at least win ugly.
We are still in the hat and 5th in the League, could be a lot worse!
37 Posted 05/10/2007 at 11:47:48
Well said Sean
I couldnt agree more about that rediculous statement about one of our best performers this season.
38 Posted 05/10/2007 at 11:26:18
39 Posted 05/10/2007 at 11:52:07
All for one, one for all
Everton’s the team that plays nothing but hoofball
We’re the kings of Goodison we play in royal blue
The hope of all the Toffeemen we’ll hoof it long for you
We’ll hoof it down the left, we’ll hoof it down the right
Whichever way we hoof it, well hoof it out of sight
Well done EHC - Everton Hoofball Club
40 Posted 05/10/2007 at 11:09:53
Using Hibbert in the final few minutes was the perfect way to ensure Metalist didn’t score and force a final few awkward minutes.
Sounds like good management to me.
41 Posted 05/10/2007 at 11:41:13
The disapointing thing for me is that 2 years ago Moyes was set an examination that he failed abysmally i.e to be a successful side in Europe you have to have players with strength, pace and be comfortable with the ball at their feet.
2 years later and 25 million pounds further spent, the same questions are presented to Moyes by yet another european ’minnow’. Once again we are an embarrassment. (yes i know we won but by far the better footballing team are out of the competition)
The football we played yesterday was diabolical. I fear for Phil Jagielka, he looks like a man in turmoil.
David Moyes has taken us as far as he can. He has a good character and is an honest man but he doesnt have the correct skills or footballing brain to convert us into a successful footballing side. He’s built a side in his own playing mould - dependable, old fashioned and basic.
And for those of you knocking Yakubu, he comes with a good scoring record, like Beattie and Johnson before him. Can it not be that Moyes and Everton are making him look crap rather than the player himself?
42 Posted 05/10/2007 at 12:10:06
What a stupid statement, if your fathers sperm would of missed the target you wouldnt of been here today.
McFadden did hit the target, just like he did for Scotland in Paris just like he did for the goal of the season v Charlton. Dont come up with all this what if hypothetical stuff, he is paid to hit the target and he hit it, who do you think he fucking is Robin Hood
43 Posted 05/10/2007 at 11:56:15
44 Posted 05/10/2007 at 12:21:03
McFadden has wonderful talent and I hope this is now the making of the boy.
45 Posted 05/10/2007 at 12:25:43
We won we are 5th in the league, the team has progressed tremendously in recent years. We are spending much larger amounts of money on players.
But no we whinge about it, we won in Eastern Europe for gods sake.
However we moan about Moyes, Hibbert, Jagielka, Yakubu, Kenwright, Wyness, the colour of the toilet walls the pies the location of the ground you name it and you whinge about
I also agree with the guy who has a go at Martin Wallace for saying if McFadden had of missed the target, we wouldnt of won, he didnt miss you fool he scored he put the ball in the back of the net just like he wanted to.
To many of you bring up ifs but and maybes. Face the facts we won be happy get a life stop moaning we have won 3 games in 9 days we are in the next round of 2 cups, 5th in the league, we have the best squad we have had since god knows when.
46 Posted 05/10/2007 at 12:26:46
47 Posted 05/10/2007 at 12:28:29
But, can anyone (especially all you very clever optimists) tell me the logic behind changing the back four so much for such a crucial game?
And Mike Newton ? for god?s sake, leave my al man?s sperm out of it.
48 Posted 05/10/2007 at 12:33:57
Yes, we made this harder than it should have been.
Yes, we could have been knocked out last night.
But guess what? we won. We scored three goals away from home and we deserved to go through. We’ve just played three games in eight days. We’ve won all three. We scored eight goals. We’ve conceded two.
49 Posted 05/10/2007 at 12:22:44
But going back to Metalist (who are a decent side which they have proved twice) we should still be outclassing these kind of teams. I was pleased when we signed Jags as a quality squad player but he was proven he is not a holding midfielder. And why was the gap between defence and midfield so large last night. This is what enabled Metalist to have so much passing freedom. When Stubbs plays away from home we need to play deeper to accommadte his lack of pace but we need a carsley type player right in front to clean up. Jagiewlka was a real weak link last night and with pienaar and osman who are both small and lightweight this did not help. So...third time lucky...will Moysie learn from this European lesson??? Lets hope for some luck with the group draw. lets hope we are still in by Jan and lets hope a quality powerful holding midfielder will join
50 Posted 05/10/2007 at 12:46:57
51 Posted 05/10/2007 at 13:05:20
52 Posted 05/10/2007 at 13:05:19
But there is a common thread between the 2 matches - Joe Yobo - dire in both. The reason Stubbs looked so poor last night was because he was to all intents and purposes the only centre back we had, in the circumstances I thought he did well.
One thing is certain if we are going to make significant progress (there are another 12 games to get to the final) we will need serious additions in January and with players being ’cup tied’ that seems unlikely.
On the plus side I thought Piennar, Howard, Lescott, McFadden, Stubbs all played well. Anichebe played the long ball game far better than Yak because he came off their back four and held the ball up and took his goal really cooly, even if it could have missed!
53 Posted 05/10/2007 at 13:33:22
54 Posted 05/10/2007 at 14:09:10
55 Posted 05/10/2007 at 14:20:32
I thought Pienaar, Lescott, Howard & McFadden all played well though.
We wouldn’t want to win easy would we?
56 Posted 05/10/2007 at 21:30:26
57 Posted 05/10/2007 at 22:59:30
I wuz thinking, given our predicament right now with our midfield being missing, why don’t we try playing AJ aas an Attacking Midfield in addition to Mcfadden and Yakubu playing strikers?
AJ is fast and he can cross and set up goals. Plus, an attacking midfielder can score goals as many as a striker i.e. TIm Cahill
58 Posted 06/10/2007 at 00:15:28
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