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Mixed Feelings

By Paul Coleman :  24/11/2007 :  Comments (42) :
Well what a result, 7-1 and we are on the up. I'm delighted by the result today but have mixed feelings about the long-term future of the club. If Everton were playing this way last season, then I would be thinking of a top four finish, but this season things are different. I'm talking about the extra competition this year brought about by foreign investment. Man City won today and go within a point of Man Utd. On Sky Sports today they were saying Sven is going to be given £150 million to spend in January. Portsmouth and Aston Villa also above us are backed by millions. As good a job as we have done with the resources we have there is no way we can compete with this.

My long term concern is that if Everton do not find investment we will be left behind in a couple of seasons. The top four will become the top eight and we will fall just outside of it. I like Bill Kenwright and I like the whole setup at Everton but we just can't comepte without a sugar daddy.

I wonder when the fans will put some pressure on the Everton Board of Directors? Will they do it now whilst everything is rosy in the Everton garden or will they wait for a few years when the club is going into decline, having been out-fought in the transfer market?

I know most people will use Arsenal as an example of how it can be done without vast amounts of money. They are established top four club though and they became established when it was a level playing field and all clubs had a similar financial status. We are trying to do it on an uneven playing field and my deepest fears are that we will not succeed while other clubs can spend what they want backed by billionaires.

I don't want to put a downer on today's result but am interested what other fans think on the issue.

Reader Comments

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Tony Gee
1   Posted 24/11/2007 at 21:19:42

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I think this is by far the weakest, non descript and non constructive article I?ve ever read on this site...

Man City, Aston Villa et al, have far more chance of being a Leeds united or Bradford city in 5 years time, as they do a chelsea or Man Utd...

Our Neighbours across the park are testiment to how money doesn?t always buy you the League Championship...

Given the timing of this article on the back of a tremendous 7-1 demolition of the black cats, it must rank as the worst of the worst...

My ma always says, if you aint got anything decent to say, then its best to say nowt sometimes...
Tony Williams
2   Posted 24/11/2007 at 21:54:10

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Hear, hear Tony
Stefan Tosev
3   Posted 24/11/2007 at 22:14:21

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Tony Williams you win "The best response prize" for November, although Tony Gee has a point
Dave Southword
4   Posted 24/11/2007 at 23:26:15

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I have mixed feelings about the result two. They are euphoria and glee.

This is what footy is all about. A big win, some great play, all the fans screaming.

Just enjoy it. You can get back to moaning about the lack of investment on Monday.
Alan Wilks
5   Posted 24/11/2007 at 23:42:38

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Paul, I think we have as good if not better squad than all those teams you have just mentioned outside the so called " top 4 " money doesnt always buy you success,

We had Johnson on the bench , Victor, Gravesen, without James v McFadden and even leighton couldnt get on the bench. It will be harder than last season to finish top 6 but by no way out of our capabilities,
Paul Coleman
6   Posted 25/11/2007 at 00:06:08

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The article wasnt meant to be constructive, descriptive or anything else fancy so i’m sorry if it disapoints. The point of it was to establish how many other fans felt uneasy about the fact that over the next few years we will be outspent in the transfer market by the likes of Villa, Portsmouth, Man City and West Ham. It was to establish how many fans, despite how great things are in the short term at the moment are still switched on enough to want to do something about our lack of financial clout. The timing of the article was deliberate. If I had wrote this article after a 7-1 defeat then I think your responses would be different. We have a great setup at Everton at the minute and IMO we need investment if we are to continue our progress.
Alan I agree we have a better squad at the minute. however give it two or three years and that won’t be the case.
Its quite simple really lads in that I dont want to be screaming for boardroom change with the rest of you when we are midtable nobodys and everything has gone tits up, I want to scream for it now and build from our position of strength.
Rob Hollis
7   Posted 25/11/2007 at 00:34:07

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What a miserable git you are! Just look over the park and see things breaking down because Benitez is not being given wads of cash which can?t be afforded because of both a highly leveraged buy-out and a new stadium.

Trouble with relying on a major benefactor is that you are stuffed when they go. Remember John Moores? We are buying well and the evidence is showing on the pitch at the moment. I always doubted Moyes desire to attack teams and am increasingly being proved wrong (half time subs at Chelsea for instance.)

The last thing we want is a foreign owner. We want the business to be run for the benefit of the team, not the bankers.

I am unusually happy!
Clyde McPhat
8   Posted 25/11/2007 at 01:11:01

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Before we tell our poor friend to f* off, why don?t we at least try to tell him he?s wrong....forgetting about the RS for the moment, how about the Barcodes???...enormous sums of money spent lately with an 0-3 thrashing at home today the latest in a long line of horrible defeats...It certainly isnt how much money you have, it?s what you do with it...If Sir Alex had a limited budget do you think we would be calling him Sir after the Stam disaster or Veron? How about Michael Carrick? Or let?s look at Spurs with Bent, Jermaine 2x, Berbatov, and they have to pay Jol still...do you really think the Man City money is real? Isn?t that Thai guy just one step ahead of the cavalry? And they still don?t have a decent ?keeper....the only guy I truly fear is O?Neill. he?s got a owner who will let him be. O?Neill is not gregarious or a spendthrift. He?s the one to wach. The Spanish Waiter has one foot out the door...he?s already spent more on strikers in his tenure than we have spent for everybody, and he still wants more money???? It?s a legitimate concern of us Blues, but it isn?t a concern until close season 2008.

If you heard Joe Royle today talking about the players who didn?t even make the subs bench today...you would have been proud to be an Everton supporter...we now have legitimate cover for almost (and I do say almost) every person in the starting 11 today...Arteta is still hard to replace in that he makes the other squad play us so differently....And how about the assists from Mr. Phil today...great...and how about Valente...I can?t believe we had that many of our defenders in that deep a place all day long....And one last thing about money...Keane spent all that money on his ?keeper, but he forgot to get anyone who can play a lick of central defence.
John Holmes
9   Posted 25/11/2007 at 03:32:23

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Rubbish. Arsenal have never spent a lot and have always been behind financially behind manu,liv,newc they only got rich recently. The key is their manager who has an eye for inexpensive talent.
Wayne Smyth
10   Posted 25/11/2007 at 03:18:45

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There are only 4 places up for grabs with access to the champions league where the real money is.

The "big 4" would probably be in serious trouble if they didn’t make it on a regular basis and if other clubs are going to be spending the kind of money being talked about in this post then I’d imagine they’d be in similar trouble.

We on the other hand have an excellent, young squad assembled at a relatively low cost, with a fantastic team spirit(dont underestimate this) and the stability of a manager who has been in charge for a long time.

Let man city, spurs, west ham and villa play the high-risk game. I’ll take the slow & steady approach we’ve adopted any day of the week.

If 8 teams are playing for high stakes then the obvious outcome is that 4 of them are going to end up in the shit. Lets not be one of them.

I can imagine that with another one or two real quality players in midfield there is no reason why this team cannot go and push all the way. It reminds me in many respects of the team of the mid-eighties.

Hopefully this season, we might be able to get to a final or win something, which should add to our confidence and belief, which is I think is the main thing we have been lacking.
Simon Watts
11   Posted 25/11/2007 at 04:28:48

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I actually think we will finish above Liverpool. They knew their result against Everton was not correct and feel vulnerable. Everton are on the up regardless of the amount of money put into them, and I do believe it will show the premiership next season about how to do business, as the man mentioned before money does not equal a good team. As England just found out. ie manager of Croatia 70 thousand a year. Rio Ferdinand 135 thousand a week. We Actually didnt qualify because our two central defenders who earn 280 thousand pounds a week were not playing.???? Think it over and realise they are not that good and other more determined people are worth far more.
Arthur jones
12   Posted 25/11/2007 at 04:43:11

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I hope I’m not bein premature in my observations but I can remember back in 1985 when I used to go to our games with the attitude of how many are we goin to win by today , this is the first time since then that I’ve felt like that , I cannot see any team in this division preventing us from scoring , we are in an almost unique position whereas if 2 striker are havin an off day , there’ll be 2 great players on the bench itching to get on !! some of the football played today was as good as Arsenal and Manure have produced all season . COYB
Brian Noble
13   Posted 25/11/2007 at 09:41:54

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You can only beat what’s in front of you and Everton took full advantage of some woeful defending by Sunderland.I agree with the point you make because the difference in standard twixt top half and bottom is now massive and top half teams now take as read the beating of the other half home or away.
What will sort the men from the boys is getting points from ’other contenders’.I just hope we’re up to it.
Robson Jerome
14   Posted 25/11/2007 at 09:42:21

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I think that if Everton were Real Madrid circa 1960 crossed with Brazil circa 1970 there will still be idiots who will be calling for improvement and finding failings in the system.
The angry mob who a few weeks ago found Moyes,Kenwright and Wyness as the satanic trinity held bent on reducing Everton to a destitute ?hoofball? team have gone remarkably quiet all of a sudden !
Dave Wilson
15   Posted 25/11/2007 at 10:17:59

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Robson J
It may have escaped your notice but for 10 -15 years we have been a destitute hoofball team, - thats why people moaned -
DM performed miracles whithout any money at all, this year for the first time in 5 years he has been given funds to build a squad, Ltd thought them funds are, he’s doing an incredible job, why the fuck give pinky and perky any credit for that ? all them two have managed to do is stand by while the likes of wigan +West ham have out bid us
Robson Jerome
16   Posted 25/11/2007 at 10:49:24

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So obviously in your mind it would be better to have say a Russian oligarch,a Thai gangster or a couple of yank wheeler dealers in charge over a scouse Evertonian ?
Dave Miley
17   Posted 25/11/2007 at 10:53:31

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Robson J, it wouldn?t matter if Kenwright and Wyness found investment, some people will never be happy with them just like in the past with Sir John Moores and of course Johnson (him with good reason).

We are going in the right direction so why can?t we be united for once - get behind the manager, get behind the board and get behind the club. This is the first time in a long time that the club is on the up, lets enjoy it!!
Neil McKinney
18   Posted 25/11/2007 at 10:46:32

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Maybe not the best timing for anxious and pessimistic articles Paul. I don’t think anyone is in the mood for reality checks after that stunning performance.

I understand your point about massive investment, but it hasn’t helped Tottenham, Newcastle, West Ham etc. In the hands of a clever manager money can be key, but in the hands of an idiot it won’t help at all. January is still a long way off so transfers and investment will play no part in the coming weeks of the Premiership. This is where we need to push on and put ourselves in a good position for some key buys in Jan.

Dave Wilson’s right, you can’t really give the board credit for Moyes being clever with the small amounts of cash they have given him. However Dave, maybe you can tell me, which quality players that we wanted did Wigan out bid us for? My memory fails me.

Great result, good football, but I would have traded 4 of those goals for Villa or Portsmouth dropping points. Ah well, I guess you can’t have your cake and eat it.

COYB!!
Phil Owen
19   Posted 25/11/2007 at 11:33:46

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Paul Coleman...shame on you...The glass is half full not half empty...Positives will take the team and the club forward...I say enjoy that performance yesterday, the team were brilliant and I have a bad head this morning!!!!
Sean Nagle
20   Posted 25/11/2007 at 12:44:32

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We do have financial backing. Robert Earl and Terry Leahy. Look in the paper today. Terry Leahy?s company is worth £42+bn and the FA need him to invest in the league or something along those lines. So I think I?d rather have him on the board with Robert Earl and have BK (an Everton fan) in charge rather than one big rich dictator in charge like Shinowatra.
Joe King
21   Posted 25/11/2007 at 13:34:14

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What a fantastic day at the match - we’ve all been waiting for this. Is it a coincidence that the moment Alan Irvine moves on we start to play free flowing football - obviously he has been holding us back with his defensive conservative approach to the game. Free of the ’Irvine’ shackles I expect the Moysiah to lead us to the promised land of sparkling attacking football and a top 4 place at the end of the season.

Let the good times roll!
Dave Wilson
22   Posted 25/11/2007 at 13:43:19

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Robson J + Dave M

If we had a good team but a bad keeper the obvious thing would be to replace the keeper - unless your Martin Joll
Our weakness is in the boardroom, in terms of generating investment or making funds available to DM, Pinky + Perky have been out performed by just about every other club in the Prem.
I’m delighted with what I’m seeing on the pitch, but off it, we are at civil war, we are constantly lied to, and cant seem to manage a game without fucking the tickets up
I’m more than happy to turn a blind eye and enjoy the moment, but the current success we’re enjoying at the moment is in spite of our custodians, I cant sit back and say nothing when people are coming on here actually giving them the credit for it
Robson Jerome
23   Posted 25/11/2007 at 15:24:49

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’Out performed by every other club in the prem’.

You really do hate Kenwright and Wyness don’t you !

Personally I’ll take my chances with our UK based board and management and leave the clubs you admire to their Icelandic biscuit factory owners and Russian oil traders.

I thought Newcastle fans had a chip on their shoulders !
Ed Fitzgerald
24   Posted 25/11/2007 at 16:18:44

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Excuse me Robson or Jerome



Yes it was a brilliant performance that we all enjoyed and are still enjoying. But I am afraid that Bully Boy Wyness on his £420K and Mr Invisible himself Kenwright are not doing a great job off the pitch whatsoever!


Please read the all the posts from last week after the NWDA annoucement, the issues surrounding TESCO etc and Fatty Wyness knee jerk 75,000 capacity remark.
We can still be true supporters of EFC and not trust these two liars!

Alan Clarke
25   Posted 25/11/2007 at 18:05:47

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We’ve just moved to top class training facilities meaning our youth system will start to reap benefits beyond this current squad. Our future is bright without the need for some sugar daddy hence why Evertonians won’t put pressure on the board.

I have bitched and whined about Kenwright but when football falls on its arse through all this extra investment not reaping its rewards for the smaller clubs, we’ll be in the best position. I am now the most excited I have ever been about Everton.
Rob Hollis
26   Posted 25/11/2007 at 18:18:42

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Executive Directors highly value their reputation and as such would avoid being associated with another Leeds United. Some people are saying we have not spent enough money when we have actually spent a reasonable amount and others are saying another Leeds. Well with Yakubu being the biggest spend I don’t think we are anywhere near that level. it seems to be quite well balanced.
Dave Wilson
27   Posted 25/11/2007 at 18:12:30

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Robson J

What are you talking about lad
Before you start telling me about my "Admiration for Russians and people from iceland" - though I’m not sure whats wrong with selling biscuits, I merely stated the facts, that Pinky + Perky were out performed by everyone, thats just fact,
I’ve been watching Everton for nearly 50 years. I love this club I dont have a chip on my shoulder, I just want more than your prepared to settle for, thats probably because I’m not as gullible as you, or maybe you just havent read the club Motto
Michael Kenrick
28   Posted 25/11/2007 at 18:39:28

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Okay... this thread seems to be in danger of breaking down... Please confine your comments to an assessment of the concerns Paul Coleman genuinely raises, and respond appropriately. If you can’t do that, then please refrain from responding. Thanks!
Clyde McPhat
29   Posted 25/11/2007 at 22:32:50

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Michael is spot on...the concerns the poster raises are legitimate...maybe not framed in the best manner but still legit.

My biggest fear is IF we don?t continue to qualify for Europe that?s when the poaching will start...we have very good players now and our depth of squad is also very good...the poachers will be out in force come close season, but not so much in January...that?s my biggest worry.
Robson Jerome
30   Posted 26/11/2007 at 09:54:18

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Having been warned off using sarcasm I will therefore offer my own thoughts that the poster doesn’t know he’s been born.
Millions of fans in the UK are following teams like Prescot Cables,Exeter City,Gretna, Luton town...now in admin...and you’re all gloom and doom because we’re not in the Chelsea/Utd financial league.
Brian Clough won the title with free transfers,has beens,journeymen,bargain buys etc and he was competing against the then rich ’big five’ which included Everton.
Money doesn’t guarantee success. Ask Newcastle or Spurs.
Brian Waring
31   Posted 26/11/2007 at 11:06:14

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Robson,no matter how much of a good job Moyes has done for the club,he is not in the same league as Clough.
Dave Wilson
32   Posted 26/11/2007 at 18:13:07

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Robson
Having actually managed penniless clubs personally, I think I have a better understanding than you presume
Your last post tells me your out of your depth in this debate.
Brian Clough won the title with free transfers and journeymen, did he ? what are you on ? Is this the same Clough who broke the british transfer record, signing wallace ? is it the same one who bought the first million pound player, Francis ? was Shilton - another record - a journeymen ? shall I go on ? If you pro rata what Cloughy spent I think you’ll find he was up with the Jose’s and Rafa’s of today, by the way who said money bought success ? I think you made that up, coz I’ve checked every post but I cant see that comment.
I took you to task for crediting BK + KW with Evertons recent surge of form, please tell me, what have they contributed ? dont bother I know the answer, so I suspect, do you now
As for doom and gloom, like I posted earlier, I’m absolutely delighted with our form. I just wasnt letting you get away with claiming Pinky and Perky were responsible for it
Chris Masey
33   Posted 26/11/2007 at 20:26:06

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MONEY DOES NOT BUY SUCCESS
Robson Jerome
34   Posted 26/11/2007 at 20:23:58

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Re Brian Clough and his Mourinho-esque spending policy.
When Notts Forest came up from the 2nd division and won the league who was in his side.
Peter Withe..ex Southport
Ian Bowyer ex Man City reserves
Ian Woodcock who was about to join Chester on a free before an injury crisis brought him back.
John McGovern..over the hill ex Derby freebie
Martin o Neill ex non league
Larry Lloyd..ex liverpool cast off
Whatisname Burns...Birminmgham cast off
John Robinson..over the hill Derby cast off freebie
As Frank Carson would say..’and there’s more’.
Cloughie won the title first time around with journeymen, cast offs,has beens,freebies.
In fact Everton reserves probably cost more than Cloughies title winners.

Big spender...don’t think so !
Rob Hollis
35   Posted 26/11/2007 at 22:39:55

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Dave Wilson

We have a very good squad. Who made the cash available to buy it? How was there cash available to buy it? BK has played his part in putting Everton in this position. He is not Bill Gates so it took time and there is still a way to go. Wonder if you could have done it?
Andrew Weston
36   Posted 26/11/2007 at 23:30:53

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Fair point but surely results like this and the attacking brand of football we are playing right now will make us more tempting to potential investor? Just a though.


Anyway, football is all ultimately about performance on the pitch and 7-1 is just about as good as it gets so let’s all enjoy!
Dave Wilson
37   Posted 27/11/2007 at 01:03:37

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Robson

Southall, ex nowhere
Nearly let go when initially couldnt oust Jim Arnold
Mountfield ex tranmere
Sheedy/ Harper RS reserves
Peter reid / Bolton scrap heap - finished
A Gray also finished
Sharp Dunbarton
john Bailey then lowly Blackburn
Getting me ? See how rediculous your argument is ? Thats how teams were assembled in them days
Cloughy not a big spender ? he raised the bar mate, he was the biggest of his generation. Fact


Rob Hollis
You claim Kenwright got the money together for this squad. I think I read somewher that on the transfer front DM was actually in the black before this season, dont have figures, but I know he’s been the least backed manager in the prem, look at the clubs who’ve outbid us this year ? Pompey, West Ham, even our new left back could have earned more staying at Wigan, DM has performed miracles, why on earth are you people crediting BK or KW for that?
The have generated nothing, thats zilch, nowt, bugger all, not a sausage . . . . . . .
Rob Holis
38   Posted 27/11/2007 at 09:36:54

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Well as they run the club and are responsible for what goes wrong it is also true they ar responsible for what is right.

Buck stops with them either way.
Jerome Robson
39   Posted 27/11/2007 at 12:22:58

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’least backed manager in the prem’. ?

DM appears very content with BK’s funding from what he says in public.

Perhaps you board haters have a spy in the camp that tells you otherwise ?

I think I’m in the majority when I say that we’re happy with the way the club is run on and off the field.

I’m not keen on the Leeds/Risdale approach you favour myself.
Dave Wilson
40   Posted 27/11/2007 at 13:25:03

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once again your argument is blown to bits and once again you resort to telling me what I believe and atributing your nonsensical argument to things you seem to have imagined I’ve said
Who mentioned Leeds/ Risdale ? why make such nonesence up ?
Who said I hated the board ? more drivel !
I hate nobody, I said Bk has consistantly failed to raise funds why should that mean I hate him ? - although it does mean I dont rate him - what the hell are yopu talking about ? I stated a fact, live with it.
DM "appears" content, you really are having a laugh he’s been let down from day one, do you really believe he wouldnt like more ?
As for speaking for the "majority". Your in a position to speak only for yourself me old china plate
Mark Hill
41   Posted 27/11/2007 at 13:37:28

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It was Jimmy Cricket who said ’and theres more’ - FACT!!!!
the point is Everton are doing very well now on the pitch, thanks in no small part to David Moyes and HIS TEAM.

As for money he has had money and spent it, granted, certainly nothing like many of the other teams, sunderland included.

In terms of stability, you can’t tell me then BK and KW have at least brought stability to the club, and brought with that some success, and no matter what you say BK has had a say in what has happened on the pitch, simply because he appointed the manager in the first place, se he deserves praise indeed for that. FACT.
Dave Wilson
42   Posted 27/11/2007 at 18:40:12

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Mark Hill
You really do have to stop confusing your opinion with fact
DM was recomended to Kenwright by Walter Smith, after Kenwright got rid of him. So Smith wasnt good enough for us, but he was good enough to choose our next manager. Luck or Judgement, draw your own conclusions

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