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Pitiful... Pathetic... Pointless

By Tony Marsh :  30/03/2008 :  Comments (58) :
Where do I start after that shambles? What the fuck goes on in the mind of our manager when it comes to these crunch games?

In a game that will see all the hard work of the season go down the shitter if we don't win, David Moyes sends out a team consisting of SIX defenders and one attacker. WHY? It was shit or bust day and Moyes wimped out again. How on earth our manager thought we could beat Liverpool at Anfield playing that side and employing those tactics is beyond me.

How shite do you have to be when playing for Everton to get dropped? I mean Leon Osman has stunk the place out since Christmas and he is first on the team sheet every week. WHY? I have said it before Leon Osman is too small, too slow, and too weak to be of any use in the Premier League. Today was a fine example of that.

WHY didn't DM drop Jagielka, who has been piss poor lately, and go with Baines at left back to give more width and put Lescott back in the center-half posistion. Neville at right back with Hibbert dropped and put Fernandes in the middle of the park to try and attack them a bit more? What was the point in playing safe we lost anyway?

Tonight, I am ashamed of that Everton performance for many reasons but the main one is the pathetic way in which we attempt to play football. It really is embarrasing with the whole world watching. No fight, no skill, no heart, and no fucking point. I can't say that I am suprised by what went on today though. I did say last week this is what would happen and it has happened. If we all know what Moyes will do when faced with a challenge like a Derby game then don't you think the opposing manager knows to?

I have tried to embrace the Moysie Mania that has swept through the ranks of Everton supporters this season but I am afraid I just can't do it. I know a lot of you will come out with the "Look at where we are now!" arguement but that doesn't wash any more. Are we where we are now because of Moyes or because of the increased revenue Moyes has had at his disposal? You need only to look at Walter Smith before and after Everton to see what a good manager he really is but he obviously had his hands tied when he was here.

Moyes has out-spent Arsene Wenger the past three seasons and still his sides can't string two passes together. It's a fucking joke watching all those short-arse players being pushed about like little school boys. When will Moyes ever learn? Good biguns will always beat good littleuns.

If sportsmen are continually asked to play or fight against bigger opponents in the end they will be beaten. They are having to do twice the work just to keep up. It's common sense really. No wonder we have run out of gas ? we are knackered with being out-muscled and pushed about every week.

I defy anyone to defend what's gone on today. If the truth be known, Moyes has bottled it yet again. His record against the big four is diabolical but his Anfield record is shameful. The truth is now blatently obvious. Moyes can't handle the pressure in the big games.

Moyes blew a hole in our season when he didn't strenghten properly in January. Surely there must have been a couple of players somewhere in the world we could of signed even on loan? It was the same scenario that cost us the tie against Villarreal a few years back and yet some of you say Moyes is learning... I don't see it.

I was looking forward to a good drink and a bit of banter tonight but now I will have to sit in and hide away. I am to ashamed to say I am an Evertonian after that pitiful, shamefull display and would sooner scuttle off to bed than try to defend it.

Thanks a lot, Davie... you really done us proud.

Reader Comments

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Nick Toye
1   Posted 30/03/2008 at 22:21:22

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Shock horror!

We lost one nil to a side that has two players worthy of any champions. We were missing, Cahill, AJ, Vaughan, Anichebe. What the fuck did you expect?

I was in the Varsity pub and the only fans left singing were the Evertonians - while your in bed being pathetic, they are still singing.
David Dunne
2   Posted 30/03/2008 at 22:24:42

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Agree with you Tony about what the starting 11 should have been. Cannot understand why Fernandes didn’t start when Osman & Neville did. A big difference in footballing ability but Liverpool also out fought and out muscled us - Carragher, Gerard, Hypia and even Kuyt throwing tackles in. Bad day
Robbie Skinley
3   Posted 30/03/2008 at 22:38:24

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Agree that we were shocking today, but yet again another ridiculous rant from TM talking complete bollocks.
Might have missed something but thought we only sent out 4 defenders, maybe my maths is letting me down again.
Moyes played practically the only attacking players available to him, Fernandes is probably only half fit and had Moyes played him and he been shite, I’ll sure Tony would have been on criticising Moyes for playing him.
Jags hasn’t been ’piss poor lately’, he’s had one bad game! And as for Tony’s comment of ’I have tried to embrace the Moysie Mania’, who the bloody hell are you trying to convince?! Don’t think anyone who has read a TM rant could ever be convinced of that nonsense.
And the worst part for me is your ’ashamed to be an evertonian’ remark. Despite the last few poor displays/results I’m still proud to be a blue and think the boys have overall done well this season and I’m prepared to take whatever stick the RS dish out over the next week.
Nick Toye
4   Posted 30/03/2008 at 22:51:32

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Well, you play with what you have got, and although Moyes decided to not play Fernandes from the start, many would say that was justified, and he never really sparked any life when he came on.

I want to see a replacement for Carsley and Neville, because we have no player who can dominate the centre of midfield. But today we never had that player, and next season we will be looking for that player to come in, but until next season, I don’t see how we can criticise the manager, as he did the best he could with what he had.

Would love to see if anyone here can do any better. I understand the pain, it does my head in. Especially against a two man team. But...Liverpool are a difficult team to break down, as Inter Milan have proven, so perhaps a little perspective is needed here.
Iain McWilliam
5   Posted 30/03/2008 at 22:38:19

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You did well Tony, but I could tell your heart was never really in it :)

Still, with respect to the Derby, did Anyone honestly expect anything different? Moyes seems a very pragmatic person. Without actually saying it, all season long he has admitted that he thinks the top four are out of reach and always will be unless more money is found.

To come away from Anfield even with his full strength squad will no doubt be an achievment in his mind and if you sit down and compare the squads it is. Even with our full strength side we struggle to dominate most teams. Alot of this is down to Moyes style of play but I think he knows the limitations of his players and gets them to play accordingly. 5th really is like winning the league for him and next season 6th, 7th or 8th will be like winning the league.

I think he has done a good job considering his lack of funds, but the next couple of seasons are going to be tough on both him and Us. When it comes to Derby matches we will never take the pragmatic view that he does and we will also get more and more frustrated at being the ’nearly men’ in the League.

When the RS say the Derby is just another match for them, they are right. We can hide behind bad refs but we havent consistently challenged them on the pitch for a number of years now. We still don’t frighten the opposition when the teamsheets are read out. Yes, we are well organised and hard to beat but thats about it. We have a good defence, but we can’t keep the ball for any great period of time. We also lack strength and pace in midfield and without Yakubu (when hes in the mood) up front we have no focus of attack.


This IS the future of Everton, its a future of bad football and the acceptance that we are just an also ran...whether we like it or not.

(P.S. Osman does lack pace, but he would be a helluva lot more effective in a footballing side)
Nick Toye
6   Posted 30/03/2008 at 22:55:13

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"Good biguns will always beat good littleuns."

I’m sorry, how about Cesc Fabregas? Paul Scholes? Wayne Rooney? None of them are blessed with height. Seriosuly Tony, if your going to moan at the game, please come up with something. I’m annoyed, I hate the sight of Lee Carsley in the side, especially with Phil Neville, but what can we do at the moment??? This is the squad, this is what Moyes has done with the finances given to him.

Its also worth noting that even though Wenger has spent the same as Moyes, he has spent money on wages, he has also got a reputation and a scouting network that far surpasses Alex Fergusons. So not really fair to compare Moyes with Wenger.
Nick Toye
7   Posted 30/03/2008 at 23:10:39

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"5th really is like winning the league for him and next season 6th, 7th or 8th will be like winning the league."

@Iain. What?
Nick Toye
8   Posted 30/03/2008 at 23:14:33

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"We still don?t frighten the opposition when the teamsheets are read out. "

Again, that is bollocks, teams are afraid of Everton, and we have proven that this season. Time to be more of a fan and get behind the side I feel. Today I watched the game in an ale house in Liverpool, and there were some true Everton fans in there. Its hard to get tickets these days, especially with the champions league fans clamouring for tickets. In this pub I watched a shocking game, but I saw fans totally behind their club, regardless. Where I saw Liverpool fans cheer on Torres and Gerrard, and that was it.
Mike Newhouse
9   Posted 30/03/2008 at 22:55:23

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Nice work Tony again its a joy to read your sane and retional piece. . . . . . It make me feel better that even when the chips are down I am capeable of seeing the positives, noticing that the cup is 1/2 full and that every cloud has a silver lining. I realise that there are those out there who are short sighted and pessamistic by nature and I feel sorry for you.
My beloved Everton did not play well let make no bones about it. This season has had tremendous highs and some awefull lows but one thing has got me through it. On leaving Goodison or where ever I have been watching Everton that afternoon I have held my head up high proud to be a fan of the greatest football team on earth. We may not play the best looking football week in week out (but its getting a hell of a lot better) we may not finish teams off with the ruthless ability of Manure (but we are getting better at this too) and we may not have the strength in depth of some other teams (but by God this is by far the best team I’ve had the pleasure of watching since I was 9 years old ’86-’87).

You see Tony being an Evertonian has it’s down but on the whole there seem to be more and more of the up’s at the moment.
Take a derby defeat as what it is a total ball breaker but for gods sake man NEVER hide away like a scalded child thats just pathetic.
We played today with a team down to the bare bones but selling Faddy was good business (He was out this weekend so would have been little use to us even if he were still here) and buying to fill the squad up after sale just to bulk up the numbers is poor business when we only have limited funds to buy decent players.
Sorry for the ramble I’m over tired its been a long day with another 100 mile plus trip to see Everton after being in work from 6am!
Nick Toye
10   Posted 30/03/2008 at 23:25:01

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@Mike

Spot on there mate. I wear my shirt, my tattoo, and my blue aura with pride. Because that’s what true Evertonians do.
Andrew Brophy
11   Posted 30/03/2008 at 23:24:07

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Sorry about that I?m bollocksed.

For all of Tony?s rather predictable timing, I think his point about Moyes?s timidity against the teams above us is a valid one. I think that the team will start to lose its inferiority complex when he does.

Personally, I wouldn?t sell any of the players mentioned because I think that they are more than useful squad players. That is all some of them should be really.

We?re not where we are by overperforming. It?s on merit. You can give us that can?t ya Marshy?

What we need to do over the summer has been discussed on here many times. We have a pretty good idea what we need and we know what what we want.

Courage Davie, money Bill.

I?ve got more faith in the former than the latter.

Eh that?s not a bad sentence for the state I?m in.
Danny ONeill
12   Posted 31/03/2008 at 00:12:17

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Tony,

No surprise to hear from you seeing as we have had a few bad results. You really are one of life’s complainers, only happy criticising and to coin a phrase, a "glass half empty" man.

We were beaten today and deservedly so - in my opinion, at half time if someone had told me 1 - 0 final result I would have taken it as I feared the worst.

Your comments are unfounded. Moyes had no attacking options available to him other than what was on the park. The lads have peformed tremendously for the majority of the season - 5th in the league, CC semi-finalists and an encouraging run in Europe. This represents progress.

Think bigger picture - we have had a great season AND IT IS NOT YET OVER. I think 5th will be an achievement - what did you expect at the beginning of the season? I think everyone, Moyes included, acknowledges that we need to step up to the next level, but surely the progress achieved to date is positive - steady progress over a number of seasons with solid foundations for the future. I personally prefer this astute "Man Utd" approach rather than the "Newcastle" big bucks for a quick fix approach, which evidently achieves little.

We are moving forward but I presume by your comments that 5th at this moment in time isn’t good enough and you expected us to be in the mix for the title?

Get real and finally one question. If Moyes goes - which given the current contract situation opinions like yours are simply not helpful - what do you suggest as the alternative? You seem to be quick to identify problems but unable to offer solutions - as I say, typical of someone who is only happy complaining and criticising.

Look forward to hearing from you the next time we lose.
Steve Carter
13   Posted 31/03/2008 at 00:01:19

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Tony’s article is like the curate’s egg; in fact, most of it is good than bad. His suggested team selections make sense to me. Plainly Osman is too small for EPL, or at least too small to compete against those who’ll be in the ECL next year when we won’t. Same applies to Pineaar, and we certainly can’t afford the luxury of having both of them in the same side plus Arteta. Good biguns will always beat good littleuns UNLESS, which Leon, Steven and Mikel ain’t, your littleun is called Billy Bremner, Alan Ball or Peter Reid. He’s also right about choking against when it most matters, isn’t he? We were in it against all of the big 4 this year (although not for very long yesterday, I guess) before concentration lapses killed it for us: Pineaar v MU, Jagielka v Arsenal etc. So, if Tony’s point is simply that Moyes needs acquire bigger midfielders and instill unfailing concentration and ruthlessness, he’s right isn’t he?
Anthony Newell
14   Posted 31/03/2008 at 00:36:35

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Danny, with Arsenal, Chelsea and Villa on the horizon look forward to hearing from many more browned off fans as the season goes rapidly down the pan
John Martin
15   Posted 31/03/2008 at 00:36:45

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For once i agree with a lot of what Tony has written.
Until we get more power and pace into our midfield we will get beaten by the top sides.
Whatever money we have to spend in the summer I hope we spend it all on creative, speedy and powerful players in midfield.
Osman, Arteta & Pienaar are good but together they are too lightweight, While Neville & Carsley are not good enough if we want to challenge.
Thom Coleman
16   Posted 31/03/2008 at 00:51:10

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Well, well Tony!
Another Moyes bashing, what a surprise!.

Now whilst I admit I wasn’t happy seeing Fernandes on the bench, whislt Neville was being employed in midfield, what other attacking options did we have?

None you plank!

You seem too much of a doom monger, who likes the sound of his voice a bit much! And to be honest, I would hate to have a pint with you, as you really come across as a whiney bitch!

It seems to me that we are a) short on numbers, which has led to b) a shortage of confidence amongst the team in the last 3 games.

Berate all you want pal, but if Moyes were to go, watch us in turn follow him with placings further down the league.

Neil Pearse
17   Posted 31/03/2008 at 00:58:29

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You might want to read the following from today’s Guardian to find out what really happened at Anfield yesterday -

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008/03/30/no_surprises_as_depleted_toffe.html

Oddly nothing particularly pathetic or pitiful.
Jason Lam
18   Posted 31/03/2008 at 02:51:13

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If you take out the obvious pride and fustration from this article (leaving not much) it actually makes sense.

Had AJ been fit, would Moyes play 4-4-2 against the RS? Cahill? It was always going to be 5 in the middle and a lone striker. The team is just so defensively minded when for this game we really needed the points. There is this inferiority complex from Moyes when we play the top4 and it’s not gonna to change anytime soon.

Ossie may be good at stringing passes but fucking hell he should be playing in the under-12s.
Ajamu Mutumwa
19   Posted 31/03/2008 at 07:41:00

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THe only thing that surprises me about the article is that its come out so quick.

TM writing when we win? Never.

TM understanding football. Never.

Said it before and I’ll say it again. There is a great team for you TM and your jaundiced anti-Moyes views, go and watch Newcastle. .

Or you could try something really different. Actually write an article based on our reality on what you would do, for example, who would you want to be a manager other than Moyes. .

Knee jerk is for the redshite.
David Marsden
20   Posted 31/03/2008 at 08:02:22

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Tony you really are a thick idiot!!
Arthur Jones
21   Posted 31/03/2008 at 08:14:14

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When I heared that AJ and Vic were not able to play yesterday on top of Tim C and vaughany missing I feared the worst. Of the players available the only change most of us would have made was playing Manny from the start but he hasn?t been a shining light since his return. Our season has been mostly very good and at times we have played some delightful football WHEN we?ve had a fully squad to pick from. 8 points from our last 6 games will guarantee us 5th place, a position we would have been more than satisfied with at the start of the season , which would also give us our most ever prem points and most seasons a 4th place finish. So it?s not that bad ... is it?
Danny ONeill
22   Posted 31/03/2008 at 08:41:28

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Anthony,

I take it you’re throwing the towel in now then? Personally, I’ll admit the season’s down the pan when we have nothing to play for - that is not the case. Chelsea struggled against Boro yesterday, Arsenal have wobbled lately and Villa are suffering from lack of numbers more than us. Go and enjoy a half empty pint with Tony!

Sorry mate, I accept everyone is entitled to an opinion and I’m as gutted as anyone about the result, but I just get frustrated at the negativity surrounding one result in what to date has been another season of progress. Yes there is room for improvement, particularly in terms of depth of squad and midfield but surely anyone can see that steadily the squad has improved - this will continue but isn’t going to happen by next week. Moyes knows this more than anyone if you look at his comments.

Too many beaten men and negative attitudes. Keep complaining boys and push Moyes away - then tell me your solution.

On a separate note, how annoying is the winging from Benitez and Gerrard about the Evertonians? Did they miss the abuse dished out to Neville whilst taking throw ins on the Kemlyn Road side?

Erik Dols
23   Posted 31/03/2008 at 08:55:25

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Tony, you claim Moyes has outspend Wenger for three years.

With a little searching on the web I made this list of transfer spendings:

Everton:

2007-2008: £22 mil
2006-2007: £12.4 mil
2005-2006: £8.8 mil

Arsenal:
2007-2008: £21.5 mil (???)
2006-2007: £15.2 mil
2005-2006: £19 mil

Granted it is very questionable if these amounts are right as these days transfer sums are undisclosed most of the time. Especially the Arsenal spending this season so far is something where I find varying amounts named.

If my numbers are right, only this season we outspend them, by a very small amount. Arsenal didn’t sign players in january where we got Gosling, which just pushes the balance over. Last season we didn’t pay as much as them for new players, but I admit that the difference is not that great. So the last two years the spending of these managers was about the same, due to the uncertainity of transfer sums it is impossible to say who was the guy with the biggest wallet. In the third season, 2005-2006, Arsenal paid much more than we did.

Please get your facts right when you’re making these kinds of claims. I’m not saying the numbers I found will be 100% correct, but the general idea will be true, Moyes did NOT outspend Wenger in the last three years.

And I like to add the wage bill in this comparison: Top earners at Arsenal collect at least the double that we pay them. I can find the figure of £83 mil wage bill for Arsenal last season! I don’t expect that number has fallen since then, although I admit that with the leaving of Henry it will not have risen dramatically probably. I can find a figure of £38,6 mil for our wage bill last season.

Wenger may not really outspend Moyes in transfer sums paid last two seasons, but he certainly does in paying wages. Which makes it easier to get players.
Chris Keightley
24   Posted 31/03/2008 at 10:03:10

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I have to say i agree with the majority of what Tony says, it was a piss poor performance which after the goal went in I could see no way back.

As for all the comments on here saying we had no attacking options so expect the expected ? what shite!! In January, as Tony says, we should have strengthened the team, we didn't!! At the very least an attacking mid and a striker, we had Yakubu, Johnson, Vaughan, and Anichebe, the latter two pups learning their trade. Take them both out injured, and you have Yak and Johnson, a dip in form or injury to either of those two meant that we had no choice but to revert to 5-4-1 or 4-5-1, but with few attacking mids we were in trouble, and I for one think that fifth will be a struggle to hold onto, so wheres this progress everyone keeps harping on about.
Thom Coleman
25   Posted 31/03/2008 at 10:39:22

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Chris Keightley, the reason we didn?t strengthen up front in January, was because we had 4 fit strikers!
We did?t need to.

To lose 3 of them and your top goalscoring midfielderat the most crucial time of the season is harsh on anybody.

How many other clubs have more than 4 strikers they can call on?
Stop talking shite!
Kevin Gillen
26   Posted 31/03/2008 at 10:55:55

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Being an Evertonian is worse than being in the Labour party. One bad result and the recriminations last a decade. Turning on the team is not going to help. Osman is a super little player who has been instrumental in so many good performances and results and he didn’t cost the club a penny. Our performance wasn’t shameful, in the second half we were the better team without threatening to score. Some perspective is required not fantasy football league speculation and comments. There are at least 15 teams in the league who would swap places with us so get out of bed Tony and face the world.
James Mullarkey
27   Posted 31/03/2008 at 11:16:10

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Tony,
I always look forward to your articles, they don?t half make me laugh. I will agree with some of it. We haven?t got a good record at Anfield, we need to put that right, but it is quite difficult when you only have 1 fit striker and one of the best goalscoring midfielders in the premiership out. As regards our record against other three top sides, tell me who has a good record against them? Answer no one. You are obvioulsy upset, we all were, but lets get things in perspective. We have had a fine season, finishing 5th is real progress.

Walter Smith...whats all that about, he was a waste of space. Remember the time we played at Maine Rd, they had lost 5 games on the bounce we had won 3 on the bounce. We turned up that day with Kevin Cambell upfront on his own and lost 5-0 in the rain. WS a good manager, dont make me laugh, I could manage Celtic or Rangers its harder playing tiddlywinks! David Moyes is a fantastic manager. We know he needs more players, he obviouly knows too.

Incidentally I asked a journalist friend of mine whether there was any truth in the Requellmie rumours in January while we were having a pint, he promptly phoned Prentice who confirmed that he had been at Everton that day (31st Jan) but his demands were staggering. Do you want mercenries or committment.
Tony go back to bed!!
Tony Marsh
28   Posted 31/03/2008 at 11:20:33

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I know its hard to take when you realise the person you think of as a super hero or a god turns out to be a fake but hey thats life. David Moyes is a decent enough man and has done a decent job at Everton but that's about it. He has no clue how to get his team playing real football on a consistent basis and is totally out of his depth when thrown in against the big boys. The fear that grips him when faced with big challenges then filters down to his team and we have performances like the one yesterday or the away leg in Florentine a few weeks ago. It's not knee jerk stuff, its been happening for years now.

I was ridiculed on here last season for saying Harry Redknapp was a better manager than DM but look how far Pompey have come in under 2 seasons of Redknapp's leadership. They play in a style we would love to see at Everton sit only 4 points behind us in the league and no doubt they will lift the FA Cup this season. Not a bad return for some one who has been at Pompey 4 years less than Moyes has been here.

Please stop with the lame excuses and the "I love Everton too much to critisise" ? it's fucking pathetic. We keep losing the important games because Moyes can't hack it at that level. There's no shame in that ? it's just the truth that's all.

There are plenty of managers who could have us treading water like DM is doing so don't kid yourselves any longer. I have said it before and I will say it again: we will win fuck all and go nowhere as long as Moyes is manager. Decent bloke Yes; great football manager? Don't make me laugh!

Paul Lenehan
29   Posted 31/03/2008 at 11:39:42

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Im sorry Tony, Redknapp joined Portsmouth in 2001, began managing them in 2002 (he left for 1 year in 2004). He has had Gaydamak’s money to spend since Jan 2006. I appreciate you do not feel Moyes is the man to take Everton forward but I can’t agree with you that Redknapp is. We will finish above Portsmouth this year and did so last year. You say about the attractive football. We have scored more goals than them. Didn’t they go six games without scoring at home? If you want to replace Moyes I think you are going to have to come up with better than harry.
Paul Lenehan
30   Posted 31/03/2008 at 11:50:15

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Another thing Tony. You think we will win fuck all under Moyes. Again fair enough thats your opinion. But it seems strange you are now interested in winning things when a couple of weeks ago you said you wished we had’ve been knocked out of the uefa cup by metalist. Thats not a very winning mentality is it.
Liam Reilly
31   Posted 31/03/2008 at 10:49:38

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I think the side pretty much named itself yesterday, barring Fernandes exclusion, which I thought was an error.
However to say that we should have strenghtened the strikers in January is nonsense. We had 4 fit strikers, (I don’t buy into this "learning their trade nonsense", either their good enough or therir not). We also had a fit Cahill and McFadden. Additionally, as our favoured formation is 4-5-1, my thoughts were on how the fuck we could keep them all happy.
We then sold McFadden for close to 5 million and I think most of us thought that was good business, but to expect to lose 4 out of the other 5 is unreasonable and that would have an effect on any team in the premier league.
Tony Williams
32   Posted 31/03/2008 at 12:46:35

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It’s obvious why we lost yesterday Tony, Moyes is a "coward" and "spineless"

Simple really.
Damian Wilde
33   Posted 31/03/2008 at 12:45:14

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Tony,

I agree Osman has been poor of late, but overall of his time at Everton I think he has been a good player and contributed a lot. I like him and would not sell him.

You say Jags has been piss poor lately. He had one bad half against West Ham (before that he had been brilliant for ages). You always concentrate on the negatives and filter out any positives. Ye, he fucked up against West Ham a few times, but what about all the brilliant defending that he has done over the months? You forgotten that Tony?

Yesterday we were poor. But we need to look at all variables. We had loads of attacking players injured, bad luck. Also, yes we don’t always do great against the top sides, but are people really surprised?? They all spend far more money, we don’t spend 100 million odd every season. So how is it Moyes fault Tony? He doesn’t have as many resources as the others. But, HR is the King, defo. Get him to GP and we will do the treble. Same money as Moyes is spending and he will topple Man U, AC Milan, etc. For the money we spend, 5th is respectable. It’s harsh, as we used to win titles, etc. but times change. If it wasn’t for Moyes, we would probably still be finsihing 17th. Maybe you prefer that Tony?? I can’t imagaine how much he used to moan in the Smith days!!!

I know you want us to be better Tony, we all do, but be ambitious and realistic. Plus, when you’re writing articles, look at all the variables and try to write in a balanced way.
Damian Wilde
34   Posted 31/03/2008 at 13:02:07

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My turn for a rant! I love Carsely and he’s been brilliant for us, but does anyone else think he should not be allowed over the half-way line? His passing and shooting lately has been so bad, he really is piss poor going forward. Any thoughts on who could replace him?
Tony Williams
35   Posted 31/03/2008 at 13:07:13

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I actually think that Moyes has had another learning curve yesterday, he realised that Pip is colourblind and subbed him.

We were expecting the usuall sub Hibbert (one of our better performers again) and move Pip to right back.

This time Moyes brought him off, is this the start of the end for Phil?
Teddy Draper
36   Posted 31/03/2008 at 13:58:42

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Tony, you have every right to criticise whoever you want, but to say you are ashamed to be an Evertonian, words fail me. A true blue would not ever, ever, ever, consider using the word ashamed in the same sentance as the word Everton. I used to read your comments (good or bad) no more mate, as you have totally insulted every Evertonian supporter, fan, player, back rooom boy, ET AL. Im proud to be blue even after that very, very, poor show against very poor opposition.
Dave Brierley
37   Posted 31/03/2008 at 14:02:50

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One thing we agree on Tony.... I’m also "ashamed to say you’re an Evertonian".
Tony Marsh
38   Posted 31/03/2008 at 14:03:07

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Damien Wilde. Whlie I fully understand what you are saying as regards to the difference in finances between us and certain other clubs, this by no means explains why Moyes shits himself whenever we play a big club or whenever we have a big game.

Yes Man Utd and Chelsea and the RS spend more than us but so do Newcastle and Spurs but look at them. Money can take you most of the way in this game but it still has to be used properly. All the money in the world thrown in Moyes's direction wouldn't in my opinion change his cautious saftey-first approach. We have seen it in the past even in home games against crap sides he goes 4-5-1 and we just about scrape wins.

Attitude and a little bit of cunning also go a long way but DM is easier to read than the Beano. Also after 6 years in charge we are still signing midget like players with no pace ? Why? We need some ball-winning midfield players who can dish out when need be but Moyes shuns them in favour of choir boys. The present Eeverton side must be the quietest team in the Premier league when they are out on the pitch. No leadership and no-one who can get stuck in. Where does money come in to that as just about every other team in the league has aleast one ball winner? Did you see Joey Barton yesterday pure class in that role. Oh I forgot, he is a thug and our fans only want saints playing for us. Give me a thug before a girl guide any day of the week when we line up against the RS.

Paul Lenehan
39   Posted 31/03/2008 at 09:42:24

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After such a poor showing it is obvious that Moyes was going to come in for serious criticism. The first half was as poor as it comes. There was no tempo, no passion and we couldn't pass the ball. We were out muscled. I have seen a number of posts criticising selection. For me Moyes's hands were tied. The only decision he had to make was Neville or Fernandes in midfield.

I find it amazing that Tony Marsh can criticise the selcetion of Jags with Lescott at LB given the performance of both players this season, but I suppose anything he can find to have a dig about he will use.

As regards our midfield. I predicted Neville would play there and he did. It just doesn't work. That said Fernandes hasn't inspired me since his arrival and where Neville passes the ball away Fernandes seems to have a propensity to get caught with the ball. Osman may be small and lacks pace but he can knick a goal and is decent in possession. Had Moyes dropped our second most attacking player, in Osman for Fernandes aholding player I have no doubt Moyes would have been lambasted for being defensive.

I think it is clear to everyone and has been all season that we need a replacement for carsley. Using Liverpools holding players as an example. It is simply not enough, at this level, to be a ball winner and a disrupter. You need to be able to pass the ball when under pressure.

What disappointed me most about yesterday was the lack of fight and the lack of tempo. When we did have the ball we were stroking it around at a walking pace. In Arteta, Pienaar and Ossie we have players who can pass and I expected a little more from them.

All in all a poor showing and it now looks like our CL dream could be over. You could sit all day and try and breakdown what went wrong, but the lack of attacking options at the minute clearly had a huge impact. Particularily towards the end of the game when you hoped we could have tested Reina a little more.

We need to get back on track against Derby, consolidate fifth as Portsmouth look threatening and be ready should Liverpool slip up. COYB!

Joe McMahon
40   Posted 31/03/2008 at 11:01:01

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"The squad is light for a team challenging for a Champions League spot". Sums it up really- this quote is taken from a quote in the Guardian. How can we realisticaly exepect to compete against teams that spend $$ every season? With a paper thin squad that includes Carsley, Hibbert etc- how can we possibly expect to compete at Champions League level?

We are no where near ready (still) just like 3 years ago. With an over-cautious manager and a chairman who has just simply failed to deliver in his apprently endless quest for investment, I'm not sure we ever will be.

Colin Smith
41   Posted 31/03/2008 at 14:41:01

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Why are we picking on Osman, he was not the worst player in a blue shirt - that honour goes to either Pieneer, Arteta or Neville. Playing Neville & Carsley together is the fundemental problem, we will create nothing against a decent team, or Liverpool, with those 2 together. Having said the obvious neither Pieneer or Arteta gave us anything & that was the most disappointing aspect. Assuming he stays fit, Fernandez must start for the rest of season. Its certainly fair to slag Moyes off for using the tried & failed Phil & Lee show together, but not so fair to criticise him for 4 out 5 forwards being hurt. Its just not possible to cover for that sort of thing unless you have 7 forwards on your books & not even the "Big 3" have that. What should Moyes have done kept McFadden?
Tony Williams
42   Posted 31/03/2008 at 14:57:42

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Tony, why is it that Moyes shits himself, he has put out a team that is forced on him due to injuries.

Should you statement not say that the players shit themselves. These are the same players that have steamrollered the lesser teams below us on occassion but play shite when against the "Sky 4" teams.

How is it Moyes’s fault that the XI fit?? players he has to chose from cannot string more than 5 passes together, how is that Moyes’s fault?

I am all for placing criticism with the correct parties but to say Moyes shits himself, when putting out a team that he has played all season is a tad ridiculous.
Darren Gough
43   Posted 31/03/2008 at 15:14:14

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Regarding Tony’s "Look how great Pompey are" comment, my wife is a Fratton season ticket holder and comes home most weeks with a view that "the game wasn’t great". I’ve been down a few times and if you think they play world beating football you must be mental. They are no better than us; fact.

During their FACup run they got played off the park by Preston, going through after a penalty save and a lucky last minute goal...against man u they should have been comprehensively stuffed and eeked through and as for league form - a goalkeeper playing out of his skin, some lucky own goals and set pieces and a huge slab of good fortune has kept them up with us. Which games have you been watching to see this magical brazil-esque passing team?
Darren Gough
44   Posted 31/03/2008 at 15:33:33

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Infact, added to my above comment, did we not play then off the park at Goodison not but a few weeks ago?
Colin Grierson
45   Posted 31/03/2008 at 15:12:33

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Tony you talk about Osman’s ’shortcomings’ and I agree that his form has dipped since the second leg against Fiorentina but that doesn’t make him a bad player. He is one of the players in the team who can pass a ball well enough to retain possession and when confidence is high he can play killer passes.

Osman aside though I question the nouse of anybody (including DM) that chooses to play Phil Neville. He wouldn’t get a game for Waterloo Dock!

Whilst he is in the starting eleven, I cant have complete faith in our manager. I think Moyes has done a fantastic job and unearthed a few gems but FFS he’s even given him the captain’s armband.

I believe PN gets a game cos of his experience and undoubted passion. I believe he’s a nice fella off the pitch; a gentleman with an eye for a good cause. I also believe he is a fucking shocking footballer and nowhere near good enough to grace the GP stage.

I agree with one or two points you make Tony but IMHO anyone who suggests PN for a place in the team is clueless! I’m not a big fan of Hibbert but at least he can tackle. Neville can do fuck all well other than be experienced. I don’t care how many games he’s played for Manure and England, he’s shite, always was and always will be.
Colin Grierson
46   Posted 31/03/2008 at 15:12:33

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Tony you talk about Osman’s ’shortcomings’ and I agree that his form has dipped since the second leg against Fiorentina but that doesn’t make him a bad player. He is one of the players in the team who can pass a ball well enough to retain possession and when confidence is high he can play killer passes.

Osman aside though I question the nouse of anybody (including DM) that chooses to play Phil Neville. He wouldn’t get a game for Waterloo Dock!

Whilst he is in the starting eleven, I cant have complete faith in our manager. I think Moyes has done a fantastic job and unearthed a few gems but FFS he’s even given him the captain’s armband.

I believe PN gets a game cos of his experience and undoubted passion. I believe he’s a nice fella off the pitch; a gentleman with an eye for a good cause. I also believe he is a fucking shocking footballer and nowhere near good enough to grace the GP stage.

I agree with one or two points you make Tony but IMHO anyone who suggests PN for a place in the team is clueless! I’m not a big fan of Hibbert but at least he can tackle. Neville can do fuck all well other than be experienced. I don’t care how many games he’s played for Manure and England, he’s shite, always was and always will be.
Shaun Brennan
47   Posted 31/03/2008 at 15:47:15

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Some of you need to realise, we didn’t start with fernandes because he is shit!

his performances this season have been shit.

getover it. last season was a one off!
Sean McKenna
48   Posted 31/03/2008 at 15:44:38

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Tony

Come on mate be serious, no matter what all Everton fans thinks Liverpool are a better team, fullstop. They have the squad, the money, and the backing of the board.

Now Moyes hasn't signed a new contract because he wants to make sure the club matches his ambitions, i,e with lots of money. Moyes himself has said this season that he would like to see Everton play a different style of football, ie, the passing game, you can only do this with a more qualitiy of player. We are never going to play like Arsenal or Man Utd with Nev and Cars in midfield we all know this; Moyes knows this. So what I would say to you Tony lets cheer on the lads wait to the summer and hope that the board matches our ambitions and David Moyes's
Robert Carney
49   Posted 31/03/2008 at 16:15:30

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Same old Tony, same old shit. Is it Leeds, is it Newcastle, is it Chelsea?s stolen millions the blue print he would give us.

We were piss poor yesterday no-one will disagree. At the end of the day it was a game of football we lost. After the disapointment it did not stop me having a good time with a lot of freinds both blue an red. Grow up for fucks sake or buy Sky and stay at home like many of the fans you dispise.
Damian Wilde
50   Posted 31/03/2008 at 16:41:31

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Tony,

I’d say DM has used a large part of the cash he has got, wisely e.g. Howard, Lescott, Cahill, Arteta, Yak, Yobo, etc. Ye, he’s bought a few duffers, who hasn’t? Even Master Arsene bought Franny!
Tony Marsh
51   Posted 31/03/2008 at 16:52:20

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Damien, I do come on and post when we win but when we were on the mini run a few months ago there were more than enough fans saying how fucking amazing we were. Going to win the League cup we were maybe a 3rd place finish and as for the UEFA Cup well we where going to City twice. Well I never for a minute thought we would achieve any of this. When you play percentage kick and rush football that Moyes teaches then it's only a matter of time before the players are knackered from chasing down the opposistion and the wheels come off.

How do we know? Well it happens all the time. We are easily sussed out by sharp football brains and only look good against the also-rans. Maybe it's just the frustration of handing the RS the 4th place on a silver platter that's got me riled but whatever you say we never come near to giving them a game at Anfield under DM, injuries or not. It can't just be bad luck all the time.

Tony Williams
52   Posted 31/03/2008 at 17:33:42

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Tony how have we handed 4th place to them on a platter?

Apparantly we are not a good side, according to you and the manager is even worse.

It can’t be both ways, either we are gash and therefore the RedShite are were they are by right, or we are good and have a decent manager and we have fucked up and given it to the reds.

Which one is it? Come on you know you want to say it!
John Fitzpatrick
53   Posted 31/03/2008 at 18:21:06

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I tend to agree with Tony on a few points especially over Moyes bottles it in the big games as do the players ? even Boro, Barnsley and Reading recently gave them a better game than us.
Chris James
54   Posted 31/03/2008 at 19:07:22

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Oh for fu...no, I can’t even be bothered.
Danny ONeill
55   Posted 31/03/2008 at 18:40:59

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Gents,

I have made my feelings towards Tony’s negative vibes and the other doom and gloom merchants well felt. I do not worship Moyes or any of the players - too old and gave up putting footballers on that kind of pedestal years ago! My time as a teenager in the 80’s (fortunately) were those days! I am now much wiser and can look through my blue-tinted glasses objectively. Praise where praise is due and criticise where necessary - but constructively. It was poor but it was one match out of a season that generally has seen vast improvement in terms of results, performances and encouragingly the style of football played.

I agree wholeheartedly with Tony (yes) that it was a dire performance and compounded by the fact it was against them. I also agree we lacked physically. Whilst I would not like to see a return to the dogs of war, we do need the complete midfielder that every top side has (Keane, Gerrard, Lampard, Viera). That said, please, one result does not end our season.

One final point, "Moyes bottles it on big matches" and the comparison with Barnsley giving them more of a match than we did. Firstly, we know only too well what the lower league teams are like when they play on such occasions and do you not think it is credit to the status Everton currently hold (and I am living outside of the Merseyside area at present) that top teams are actually starting to take us seriously and therefore raise their game when they play us?
Robert Carney
56   Posted 31/03/2008 at 20:34:28

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TM, you say there are enough of us who come on when a mini-run is in place. So this makes you look negative.

A load of shite.

I have visited this site since last summer, originally through the lack of debate regarding the proposed move to Kirkby. If my memory serves me right you were berating the club and the lack of activity in the transfer market. Before the signing of the messiah everyone wanted (Manny). Moyes was proved right over that one was he not ! It will take another seasons loan before we know if he is cut out to make the ?top grade?.

The only positive remarks you have ever made was through nostalgia. I thanked you at the time for the arrticle. I have admittedly berated all your other articles because you refuse to put your head on the block with opinions on how we move forward. If consitency was your format only Kirkby comes to mind.

I think I have been going the match longer and can compare the mid to late sixties along with the championship side of the seventies, with the team of the mid eighties you admire. I believe the skills / standard of football in the latter period was far more superior if not athletic.

You have a long way to go to convince people of your views.

Danny ONeill
57   Posted 31/03/2008 at 23:42:31

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Andy,

Well said!

Tony,

What must you have been like had this type of forum been as popular and as accessible in the 90’s?!!! Then again, with your negative attitude, you would have been in your element!

5th place, 4 points clear, 6 games to go - beats trying to stay up on the last day against Wimbledon or Bolton but obviously not good enough for you. No its not the 80s but times have changed and it will take longer to get back to the top. At present I would gladly take another UEFA cup campaign.

From someone who lived the 80s and remembers the journey back from Norwich away 86-87!
Danny ONeill
58   Posted 31/03/2008 at 23:55:59

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Sorry lads, been rambling more than usual on this one, just a few points I have not yet picked up on:

With regards to selection surely even the most anti-Moyes amongst you can acknowledge he did not have many options? 3 out of 4 forwards injured and the 1 player that makes the 4-5-1 system look positive out for the season. Sorry guys, thats just bad luck and sometimes can’t be accounted for.

Harry Redkanpp? The bloke is a southern boy who wouldn’t move north (as proven when offered the Newcastle job). His heart lies with West Ham, he has shown incredible disloyalty between Southampton & Portsmouth (and back again), which if you understand southern coast mentality is equivalent to switching between Everton & Liverpool. The man has itchy feet, a grand opinion of himself and a Kopite son. Please give me a more realistic solution if you insist Moyes should go.

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