Lescott-less

Nick, to label Everton a selling club is a bit misleading. The only players I can remember that DM had sold maybe against his wishes were a certain Rooney and Gravesen. Even in those cases, it was the players who wanted to leave.

If we are a selling club, Arteta, Cahill etc would be playing elsewhere by now. I do however agree that for £20M, we should sell Lescott, use half of it to fund a young LB and CB and add the rest to our war chest.

I agree with you Gary... Everton is not a selling club; however, in difficult financial situations, the selling of Duncan, Rooney and Gravesen were considered to be a good decision in the football business.

Lescott was considered among our best players for two seasons but I notice that he has shown his maximum in football and cashing on him for £20M is also a wise decision. I say cash on him and have trust in Moyes, our manager will bring in some more quality players this year, obviously in the last day just some hours before it is closed...

Although I am sure you have more to back up the theory that we are a selling club, accepting £20M for Lescott is not evidence of that. Selling players to buy better ones is also not evidence of that, in my opinion. If we were selling to run the club as is, then yes, we are a selling club.

£20m for Lescott would be much more than he is worth (forget Johnson even). I am concerned that the Real Madrid overspend is so significant that it has distorted what players are really worth. For £20M we could have Defour with change ? take it and run!

Replace him with Per Krøldrup.

Nick,

Lescott hasn?t said anything other than that he still considers himself an Everton player.

If he leaves it won't be because he only interested in the "folding stuff" it will be because Moyesey has decided we could use that money to improve the team further than by keeping Joleon.

I personally think Man City are building a good squad with mostly good characters who are proven in the Prem, and I also think they have got a good manager who will build a side to challenge if given the time.

A good article, Nick. I think if the squad can be improved by letting Lescott go then, taking financial restraints into consideration, he should go if he wants to. £15 million plus Richards with Jo on free loan for another season would be a great deal. Moyes is the man to help Richards fulfill his undoubted potential and the money could strenghen other areas. It is vital, however, that any deal is strictly on our terms; make City pay... they will.

So "Some say Lescott?s star is on the rise but I?m not totally convinced", but "our piss poor finances dictate that yet another class act has his best days in a shirt that isn?t Everton?s". Which one is it??

I personally think that, unless he was the one agitating for a move (which there's no reason to think at this stage), we shouldn't hold it against him if his head does get turned ? though, as far as I?m concerned, £40k per week is effectively the same as £80k per week for all practical purposes!

The worry for me is who Lescott would be leaving for. Rooney left for Man U and Gravesen left for Real. Both arguably to play at a higher level. Lescott would be leaving to a team ranked lower than us, not in Europe and, as Nick points out a shite manager. It is a worry if we can?t even compete with the teams around us let alone those above us.

We all know the only reason teams aren?t sniffing round Mikel this summer is because he?s injured. Anyway, in the words of our chairman, "watch this space ..."

The fact is that lenghty contracts today are purely about maintaining a high level of return an an investment.

Because he?s contracted for a few years yet, a valuable member of the side, and still only 26, this decision to stay or go, will likely be Lescott?s.

An obscene offer could of course force Moyes?s hand, but he knows breaking the top four won't come by selling your best players and it won't look good to potential singings.

Let?s face it, few of us, when given the opportunity to double our wages, would stick with an employer out of mere loyalty. If you were reasonably confident that you were moving to a decent set-up with good management, you would have to be a mug to turn the new job down.

In all honesty, Man City must have a good chance of breaking into the top eschelon sooner than Everton ? if only because they have the resources to do so. So saying such a move for Joleon smacks of a lack of ambition is clearly nonsense.

If the boy chooses to go ? and we get c£20M for him ? he will go with my best wishes and grateful thanks for services rendered. After all, let?s remember he ?turned his back? on Wolves to better himself (and his bank balance) when he came to Goodison.

I think this and other threads are excellent evidence of the success of Man City?s media campaign.

It seems very disturbing to me that nowadays getting 35 newspapers to say things like, "Lescott must force issue", "The player will want to double his salary", are very effective in getting especially the fans to start believing in the transfer.

If you look at it objectively, the player himself has said "I am an Everton player 'til I am told otherwise" and the manager has said "I certainly will not sell any of my players to get funds". Yet after City?s media campaign, this somehow becomes about Lescott forcibly demanding transfer requests and Moyes, who ostensibly has control over transfer matters, having little or no say.

Whether Lescott?s market value is £20 million etc is very debatable, but with a fee going to Wolves, I just don?t see how we can go into the new season confident of our defence if we sell him now. That to me is an automatic NO unless City give us enough money that we can be sure our defence will be reliable from the word Go.

We?ve not really been a selling club in the past because for a lot of years we didnt have any players that anyone would want to buy!

Unfortunately, I think a lot of richer clubs are now circling us because we have several players who are young and talented, are good team players, have good characters, are on "relatively" low salaries.

In isolation, I think Richards + £15 million would be a fantastic deal for Lescott. The danger is the message it would send out to the vultures and also to the rest of our squad.

On a slight side issue, I?m not liking all the "Rodwell is great" articles at the moment. I really hope he doesn't get into the England squad because, if he does end up going to the World Cup, I reckon next season will be his last season with us.

Can people stop being so naive as to believe DM buys and sells players? ? that's down to the Chairman and Chief Exec, he merely says who he wants to buy and sell and he leaves the rest to the guys with the fiscal responsibility to do the rest.

No one really know what goes on with buying and selling, papers claim figures but on most occasions payments are on the drip in and out and monies raised often go towards the running of the club and to keep the banks/lenders at bay. The decision to let him go will ultimately lie upstairs, the club own his registration and if they genuinely don?t want to sell him they don?t have to; players are just commodities.

And FFS at least it hasn?t appeared on this thread but please don?t let me read another "Let's get Dicky Dunne as part of the deal if he does go," as he was shite last season and gave loads of goals away.

Should Lescott be on his way, I hope it is for far more than £15 million. With the £5 million odd we paid for him, plus the reported 25% sell-on Wolves will receive, that leaves a profit of £6.25 million. That?s not "good business" for one of the best centre backs in the league.

I guess part exchanging for one or two players would lessen the the amount of money going to Wolves. Richards would probably be hesitant to leave money bags City, and I think he is on roughly £55k/week already. So he is almost a non-starter.

I?ve read Johnson?s name being mentioned on TW, and I?ve been a great admirer, but his hip injury may be worse than is being let on. I like Jo, but his value is far, far below what City paid. An extended loan would be very nice, however. But value? Not much above £6-odd million in my opinion.

Dunne? No thank you. Elano however...

Nick, ManUre just sold their best player (for £80 million). Does that make them a selling club ?

Ultimately it is what DM, BK & Elstone consider to be in the club?s best interest. Of course, the player is also a factor in this, but I don?t get the feeling that Lescott is the kind of person to force the issue along (only my opinion !).

Personally, I like the idea of £15 million + Richards + Jo (season loan).

Brian Noble has it spot on for me. Loyalty seems to be a sliding scale ? we want our best players to be loyal and if they leave it?s because "they?re only in it for the money". Yet two of our more limited players, who have been as loyal as they come ? you know who I mean ? are invited to fuck off at regular intervals.

I tend to agree with most sensible points that selling Lescott is a good financial decision. I personally would like Richards and Jo on a permanent basis. If they are both thrown in plus £10 million then I would bite City?s hand off.

We get a young English defender who at one stage was tipped for greatness (something I trust Moysey could get him back to) plus a decent striker for free. I don't think City will want to loan Jo out again, especially after rumours Fulham were interested in a permanent deal.

Nick, I can?t agree with most of what you say in your piece but nevermind, cos I?m only posting here as I don?t yet see a dedicated Andy King thread.

Seeing as you namechecked a ?68 Zeppelin tune you?d have seen Kingy play too. THAT goal against the dark side and the famous "get off the pitch" interview will live with me ?til I?m "In My Time Of Dying".

All the best for a speedy recovery to a great Blue Legend.

The problem with just selling is that we still have to replace. Rodwell will be ready in a season or two; Jags is back a few weeks into the season...

Amongst the rumours with money plus players, take Jo and Richards in addition to the cash from City; both would be first-team contenders and possibly solve the right back slot. From other clubs, see who is available.

Let's face it, Davie Moyes can make a silk purse from a sow's ear; with a little talent, others could be worth a punt.

Over at Grandoldteam.com, they had the discussion about any fee owed to Wolves. Somebody had checked a Wolves forum, and it seemed that they supposed it to be 15% of any profit. If this is true, he could be sold for £20M, and Everton would receive just under £18M, and Wolves just a bit over £2M.

No way should we sell Lescott. Last year he was the best centre half in the Premier League bar Jagielka. If we are serious about having a go at a top four finish this year, then he must be in the side. As one of the above comments states, There is no doubt a sell-on clause that would render any sale less than £25M pointless.

Also, there is a comment above that states centre halves are never the hearts and souls of teams. Rubbish. The teams with the worst pairs of central defenders last season all got relegated. Hull?s central defenders kept them up. You need the best goalkeeper you can get and the best defenders. Like we proved last season, you can almost do without strikers.

I for one am really excited about next season. I don?t believe it is in our power to break into the top four, it is only within their gift to give it away. I see signs of unrest at at least three of those top four teams. I am loving watching football commentators purr over Rodwell in the U-21s and Pienaaar and Howard in the Confederations Cup. If we can hang on to our best players, get Arteta, Yakubu and Jagielka fit and add an attacking right-sided midfielder, we will be in the top four at Xmas, mark my words. Then we?ll see how much our players are worth.

No to selling Lescott or anyone else for that matter. Man City eighth next season with a new manager by Xmas.

Nick, your article is riddled with so much speculation, assumption and contradiction that I can hardly see the point for the holes.

"From what I hear..."

- You obviously have the inside track. Do tell...

"footballers are only interested in the folding stuff"

- Hmm. Unlike...?

"Is Lescott really the money grabber that the club?s PR machine will undoubtedly paint him as?" - I don’t think they will. Let’s wait & see shall we.

"Last season, he was largely indifferent and did not consistently reproduce his stunning form of the previous campaign"

- Aside from a shaky start, he was excellent. However you then say...

"Don’t get me wrong, I still think he is a magnificent defender"

- Make your mind up sunbeam.

"Many fans thought we were largely impervious to the effects of the credit crunch"

- Are you for real? Who are these fans?

"Our turnover is shit so our credit rating plummets further still. Yet again, our piss poor finances dictate that yet another class act has his best days in a shirt that isn’t Everton’s"

- Do you seriously suggest that the problem is all Everton’s for not paying Lescott £4m+ a year basic salary? Do you not think for a second that the influx of billionaires and free money to clubs like City & Chelsea is totally skewering the whole system in a quite ridiculous way?

Oh yes, turnover and credit rating are only very loosely related. But credit rating has got nothing to do with it. You don’t know what Everton’s credit rating is, the club already has borrowings which are seemingly under good control (according to those that actually know, rather than speculate). Or are you suggesting Everton should do a Leeds or Newcastle and just say "fuck it, let’s do whatever it takes & spend what we haven’t got". Where are Leeds & Newcastle now?

Now let’s not spoil this anti-EFC tirade by mentioning Man City and their very public bidding & unsettling of our player. Not in the least. Let’s not touch on the morals of their CEO, a complete twat by any measurement. I mean, almost every sporting media outlet in the UK, including the BBC, was authoritatively telling us a bid was imminent within 48hrs. Now where do you suppose such precise speculation came from.

Like I have said elsewhere, when billionaires come out to play other clubs, good clubs, get fucked over. We’re a good club and we’re being fucked over. It’s bad for the game & bad for the fans. So have no doubt where the blame for Lescott-gate lies. Football’s financial (& sporting) model is grotesque. It will not last.

Totally agree with Alan Kirwan. the business model for football is seriously flawed. There are likely to be some serious high profile failures of clubs (Liverpool would be nice). As for Lescott only interested in taking the money why would he sign up for a contract extension? It doesn’t make sense and I don’t believe it will happen. If it does happen it will fail. Man City have good defenders they need to be patient with them.

"From what I hear, Joleon Lescott is about to prove us all right" etc etc..... Who do you hear this from then?

The way I see it is that, if he wants to go, he goes... and money is no object. Ask for £10 million, Dunne, Richards and Johnson (probably a market value of £15 million) meaning 3 quality players in and £10 million for a winger. Makes sense to me!!

Why another post about this ? worse still an ?article?? Why couldn?t you just post a comment like everyone else? Like Brian Williams asks; who exactly do you hear this from? Comments from the previous post perhaps?

Lets move on, please! At the end the day it's his call. If he wants to go, we don't want him anyway.

Now, if you don't mind, I would like to go back to the ?Lescott Exclusive? article.

So the club "... already has borrowings which are seemingly under good control (according to those that actually know, rather than speculate)."

-------------------------------

According to your beloved Kenwright, we are ?finding it hard to make ends meet?... Does this sound like our borrowings are under good control?

- You obviously have the inside track. Do tell...

I don't understand why so many of you are so eager for us to "cash in"; Lescott was a superb and would be nigh-on impossible to adequately replace. Are you really so negative that you don't recognise the progress we have made as a club under Moyes?

I'm already dreading next season; assuming the lad stays (and I have literally seen no evidence that either the club or the player are keen on the transfer). As soon as he fluffs a header or makes an unconvincing clearance, you bunch of moany gets will all be braying about how we should have "bitten City?s hand off".

Let?s not get over-depressed about Everton on this particular one. The issue here is much more about Man City and their silly money than it is about us.

In any business, if you ever get a company for whom money is no object, they screw up the system. That is what is happening here. We are not the only ones. Barry just went from Villa to Man City. Because City are more likely to win something than Villa? Er, I don?t think so. No more than Lescott thinks City are more likely to win something than us.

But in a world of Man Citys and Chelseas, virtually every other club is a ?selling club? (AC Milan almost!). They are a cancer on the game, and the sooner Platini and Co get their acts together to do something about it, the better.

I agree with Kevin. We should hold onto Lescott whilst we have him tied down to a long contract. The beauty of our back four is its balance. Lescott is a top left-footed central defender who can fill in at left-back. It's not so easy just to go out and buy that type of player because there aren't many out there. It's ok to have the money being talked about but who would you buy as good as him with a left foot for £5M?

With due respect Nick, and this is not meant to be personal, but your comments smack of hypocrisy ? perhaps symptomatic of what we as fans can fall into every now and then.Why do I say that?

On one hand, you flog Lescott, saying that he?s a mercenary, selling his soul to the highest bidder for more $$... which, at this point, is just conjecture. Then in the same breath, you say "Let?s sell the guy and bite off Man City?s hand if they offer 20 million"! What?s with that?

It?s like we are saying to players "you gotta bleed blue, ambition, passion for the badge" but if a "sucker" comes along, then hey, we have every right to sell you like a piece of meat, rubbing our palms in glee.

It?s sad that players come and go but, as so many have said before, how many of us wouldn?t do the same if the company a few miles down the road offer you twice what you are being paid for less work (given that Man City is going play less games)?

Both Lescott and Everton face a tough choice. Does Lescott relinquish playing in the Europe for a season with the promise of the Champions League the season after?

If Everton sell Lescott, they are selling to a potential strong rival next season.

I think we’d all do well to just "wait and see".............

Just had a skim over some of the comments posted.

I’m not convinced we can afford to let him go unless Moyes has a cast iron solid dependable replacement and cover in line. Selling Lescott would leave Jo Yobo as our sole experienced fit centre half at the start of the season. I am unconvinced by some who feel Rodwell is adequate cover. Is he a centre back or midfielder? What if he can’t hack it there? Who do we turn to? We have been operating with 3 senior centre backs for a season and half now since Stubbs went to Derby (forget Gardiner’s loan - he was crocked anyway!) . I have been on tenterhooks in case we had an injury crisis there. Selling players when we are short is plain foolish.

Someone suggested that Micah Richards would be a shrewd move - good player on his day, prone to, um, attitude problems. Might not fit the Moyes mould. Someone else suggested Elano as being a good move! See comments on Richards and x 10!

I would much rather keep Lescott, but if he did go, blindly selling would be very churlish.

A word on the players motivations and loyalty - I have a large number of friends and family who are Wolves fans. They all speak very highly of the way he handled his future at the club. Money was not his problem, he merley wanted to play in the Premier league, test himself and try to become an england candidate. He missed Wolves only recent season in the Prem through injury. Instead of demanding a transfer once he was free from injury he quite clearly said he wished to get to the prem with the Wolves, stayed another season or two and then left for the prem when things didn’t happen on the field. He is still held in high regard by their fans for his honest approach as he felt he had a debt to the club for giving him a chance. I hope that he would do the same with Everton.

I would not sell him this season at all. It looks likely that Capello will include him in the World Cup squad for next year. If he gets on the pitch and has a couple of good performances his value will shoot up even further. If he doesn?t we would still have a few years left on his contract to ensure a high price for him. Let's face it, Man City paid over the odds for Barry who would have been out of his Villa contact next season. £12M for him.

I have seen posts higher that suggests cash + Richards + Jo on loan. Forget Jo and make Michael Johnson part of the deal with Richards + cash. Now that is a midfielder that, even without a Lescott deal, we should look at this summer. Defour looks good in a poor league. Moutinho I admit looks the part but is hardly a man mountain. Johnson is over 6ft and has good all-round attributes which is in the Moyes mould.

What a load of negative rubbish.

No bid has even been made, never mind accepted. A bit premature aren’t you?

It’s depressing to see such cynicism. Football has got a money problem, but reading your article, you seem to rule out Joleon or David Moyes thinking about anything but barrowloads of cash.

So what if he goes and takes £80k a week in wages? Like none of us would move jobs for a doubling of our pay. Football has changed, players like Cahill (who I believe would stay if offered a load more money) are few and far between.

Gary Tan?s post at the top made me chuckle, describing Everton as having a war chest!!!

Reminds me of Blackadder goes Fourth:

BA: Don't forget your weapon, Lieutenant!

George: No Sir! Wouldn't want to face the Bosch without my trusty stick....

We should not sell him under any circumstances to City... period.
they are trying to top us, we’d improve them by giving them Lescott
We’re close to breaking the Sky 4 why the Hell would we break up any continuity?
His value will increase after the World Cup if he gets any time on the pitch

We need to tell City to F right off. Our team is on the up. We shouldn’t be selling assets.

if we did sell to city i think lescott is worth at least 25 million plus johnson .but on the other hand it’s world cup season so why would he want to possibly ruin his chances

In an ideal world I?d like to keep Lescott but Everton Football Club are a long way from that ideal world. I think that it is not to difficult to pick up a decent centre-back for say £5 or 6M.

I also think Moyes has been looking around for a while now considering the players we have been linked with. I like the sound of the current Russian centre-back in particular. Plenty of experience and at 29 year probably at his peak for a centre half.

I don?t remember any mugs playing centre-back for the Russian national team. They are usually pretty tough in that department. If we could get him for a reasonable price and use the remainder to bring in someone of the quality of Steven Defour then I?d be well happy.

Also, it's worth remembering that Joleon sometimes seems to lack confidence, especially when he has joined the big boys in the England set-up, and he brought that form back to us at the beginning of last season.

Was he at fault for Chelsea?s equalizer in the Cup Final? Many would say he was, leaving Drogba with a free header. Don?t get me wrong: I think overall he is a fine player and I would like to see him stay but it's not an ideal world for Everton and if they wish to move the team up a notch then selling may not be such a bad thing.

Kidding yourself, Nick, I?m afraid; the first paragraph is riddled with blue-blinkered inaccuracies. The way you write it you would think Fulham are after him!!!! They have more money, better players, infinitely more potential and it?s a chance to join the most exciting project in British football right now.

To say going there would be to the detriment of his career or a move motivated by greed or misguidance is just a complete nonsense IMO. We are treading water and relying on Moyes to keep making wine from water... City are genuinely going places. If you honestly don?t believe they will be above us next season, get down the bookies mate, you will clean up.

Welcome to our somewhat demented friends from Eastlands, but I think you’ll find that no matter how much money trickles into the Sandbowl, and no matter how many disaffected Brazilians are hoovered up, MCFC, rather than being the Everton of Greater Manchester, will always be the Manchester City of Greater Manchester. I know some of our number tend to whinge - our Chairman included - about a scarcity of money, but what money is there tends to be used to good effect. I bow to no one in my respect for old Sparky as a player, but I remain assured that as long as he’s spending Sheikh Yourmoney’s trillions on disaffected Brazilians, Italians and Martians, bobby2toes and his cohorts will be watching comedy football - in the Prem or the Championship - till Darren Ferguson III (or IV) is managing Man U Starbucks.