From My Seat: Standard Liege (H)

As somebody posted the other day, this game has indeed come "too soon". I for one think we had a decent overall performance, but our defence has been disastrous and unfortunately away goals may be our downfall.

I think on the plus side that Castillo was amazing and was probably my man of the match.

My nerves can’t take this...I know I should be used to it by now but FFS!

Anyway, all I can say is that if this carries on we will have blown a season that could have been fantastic! By that I mean at times tonight we were really good, overall the better team I thought and we have a chance in the return leg, however, even though one could argue we didn’t bring in star players I do think DM has brought in really good players and with Cahill fit (if we lose Anichebe it’s unfortunate but Vaughn is ready) had we bedded the players in with a really good pre-season we wouldn’t have tied tonight. Plus we wouldn’t have the problem of not being able to Fellaini....if we’d got him sooner he wouldn’t be cup-tied!!
Go ahead and argue the point but with a more settled team we would have won.
And why are we getting all these simple mistakes in defense? I agree with Ken’s report but Lescott and Yobo usually are faultless.

Tough game on Sunday, cup game next week, then The RS, then the return leg.........watch this space to see if I’ve pegged it with a heart-attack!!!!!!

At least Castillo’s goal eased the nerves somewhat!!! Stunning one-touch shot!

COYB!!

Excellent post, Ken. Thanks for remaining objective and not screaming abuse at the team or waxing too lyrical. Didn’t see the match but now feel as if I have a good idea.

Well yes Lescott had an off night.. first time I have ever seen him get flusterred. Still though, I think it was our best performance this season (which isn’t saying much) and if we do go out in Belgium I dont think our season will be over by a long shot. We might not of been ready for the start of the season what with being short on numbers and the injuries but they gave their all tonight and will continue to do so for the rest of the season. So here’s to the lads and the rest of the season!

Ped, this wasn’t an off-night for Lescott... it’s an off-year. He’s been turned and roasted at least once in every game this season, starting with Santa Cruz, and that didn’t happen all last year. Maybe he’s been out of sorts without Cars in front of him, or maybe Moyes needs to bring the Great Left Back Experiment to a permanent end because the man belongs in the middle. But whatever’s wrong, it needs fixing. Now.

I said on this board that Castillo was a great acquisition, and I think he’ll help a lot. I don’t know the answer at the back -- Jags definitely belongs on the field and the memory of Yobo at right back is not a happy one -- but we’ve given up 11 in 5 to teams that are not exactly scoring powerhouses.

This is not a small problem.

Lescott is just having one of those starts to the season. Dont forget he?s played in every minute of every pre-season and season games . Moyes should rest him for a game or two and watch the difference when he gets back.

On the other hand Jags has played exactly the same minutes but to me is our player of the season so far ? he?s given everything even in his worst position of CM ? he?s never gone missing.

He?s our best CH at the moment and should be first pick in the defence , even ahead of Howard who is also having a bit of a wobbly.

Ken ? Lescott wasnt to blame for their 2nd goal, Arteta/Castillo should have tracked back, Lescott had pushed forward just before their break-away. The true blame lies with Howard who should have taken control of the situation.

A bit of a roller coaster game, great for the neutral... Lescott needs a game or two on the bench and can i just mention the fact that not one chance was created down our right hand side by the opposition. Neville had a virtually flawless game... but all the credit seems to have been given to Castillo, who was decent and scored a great goal. My MOM was Jzags... but ran very close by Neville.

As an exiled blue I watched the match on telly last night. Like most I imagine I was nervous when they had the ball and hopeful when we had the ball. We played some thrilling stuff going foward and we were frightening in defence.

However, as an entertainment spectacle I thought it was a great game. I am staggered that I heard booing at the end of the match - was this really directed at our players? Their confidence is clearly fragile and we booed them off after they gave it their all (in my opinion).

Now, did they deserve a bollocking for being dopey as hell in defence? absolutely, but Moyes can do that, please, the atmosphere sounded great and it is evident what an impact the crowd could have, but surely we know by now that it is better to use our voices to have a positive impact rather than a negative one?

Using our vocal support to intimidate the opposition is one thing, but to intimidate our own team? And I know we are entitled to voice our displeasure as we pay for the privilege but we must have realised by now that the whole ?12th man? thing is not a cliche without good reason.

I don?t know, it just really pissed me off. It seems to me that our confidence is as fragile as the players? confidence. As soon as we make a few mistakes it appears that we are a load of sh1t and on the other hand, if we score first, or end up winning, we are the greatest, when on both occasions we are truly somehwere in between.

We had as good a season as we have had in a long time last season, some real entertainment and some great Euro nights. The manager and the players really did a good job and its been a nightmare closed season. Its not the players fault that we didnt sign anybody until late on and the manager may have his excuses / reasons himself. I just think that some perspective is needed and we should enjoy these occasions, not make it a chore to get over.

Portsmouth had their first ever European night last night, thier first! Lets give the team its dues and applaud them for their efforts. If they look like they are not trying, then thats a different matter.

A lot of fans are spouting that we will do them away, err, we couldn?t even do them at fucking home! Liege actually made us look better in the last 15 mins, than we really were (because we were woeful) ? that was down to Liege sitting back, and taking their foot off the gas.

We have to go over there, and score without conceding... can anyone seriously see them not scoring? They are just as good a side as us, and I can see them scoring, not because of how shit we were last night, but because they are actually a very good side, containing some quality players.

Since Round has taken over from Irwin, our defence has been rubbish...

Not a chance of us goin over to Belgium and keeping a clean sheet, so we wanna hope that Saha is fit and we can score one more goal then they do on the night....

Well I thought we were just as bad as last year to be honest. Castillo looks slow and his first touch isnt as good as Carsleys (Ha, I never thought I would say that) and his passing is not tidy enough. I just hope its because hes not match fit.

We had no midfield and Liege just ran at us until we held the line at the penalty box only for Lescott (who just isnt focused this season) and Howard (whos panicing all the time) to make a cockup. Yobo is great for 2 games but will always give a goal away in the third one, Jagielka and Neville still can?t pass, neither can cahill and Anichebe doesnt like playing on the wing (I wouldnt either if i was built like him). Arteta and Yakubu are the only players we have with a decent first touch and actually frighten the opposition although with Arteta I think they are more frightened of touching him because he always dives (his corners are still as shite as ever). And then theres poor old Osman, well as usual he tries his hardest, tries to play the ball to feet, he even tries dribling every now and then but if i was him id go and sign for a team that will pass the ball back to him on the ground, rather than 3 foot above his head (and 2 foot wide).

Yes, I'm being negative and some will say premature but if the rumours are true then Moyes is going to be earning alot of money over the next few years. I see no improvement on last year against all those teams we played in the UEFA cup. Everton are skint, but Standard Liege earn a fraction of the TV rights we do in Belgium yet they have a team who probably should have won last night. Its bollox when Moyes says he cant find the right players, absolute bollox. You dont need to sign household names that cost a fortune, you just need to have an eye for a good player...this is something I dont think Moyes has or ever will.

James ...

I suspect the booing you heard at the end was from the Liege fans who were still spitting their dummies out over the ’penalty’ they felt they should have had. In the Street End certainly and I think in all areas of the ground the team were applauded off. And rightly so.

The defence was poor but how many times did Arteta fail to put a decent cross in. Every corner failed to beat the first man, surely we have someone else to take a corner when Arteta has an off day! We looked laboured but things can change quickly a couple of clean sheets between now and the second leg and we?ll be full of confidence!! (I hope)
COYB !!!

Were people watching the same game as me!? Castillo was woeful. Maybe he was trying too hard but he kept trying to find the killer pass instead of the simple ball and seemed off the pace. Hopefully this will come as it is only his 2nd game

Ian McWilliam,

Castillo?s first touch isn?t as good as Carsley's?
Yakubu has a decent first touch?

Are you right in the head?

ps: Arteta doesn?t dive, his skill invites a foul... but considering your above comments, it?s no surprise you have difficulty realising the difference.

Diving and ’inviting the foul’ (isnt that a polite TV commentators way of saying hes a diver?). Did big Dunc invite a sending off when he punched opposing players or did he just punch players?

I didnt see too many hefty challenges on Arteta last night. For a player of his skill he seems to have no confidence in producing an end product once he gets past a player which is probably why he takes the easy option and falls over and hopes for a free kick.

As for Castillo and Yakubu’s first touch, Ill just have to agree to disagree with you.

Just a note to say how poor last nights attendences were, only 28,000 for a major Uefa Cup game (possibly are only one at Goodison this season), disgraceful in my opinion!

It also comes as no surprise that you seem unable to tell the difference between ?punching someone? and being fouled.

You can agree to disagree all you want over Yak's first touch... you?d still be wrong though... as a quick scan of last nights match would confirm!

Good objectivity once again, Ken. There were definitely positives and negatives to take from the game, but in the end the away goals are going to see us out of cup at the first hurdle, as I feel a win at their place is a very tall order. As a result I’ve a very hollow feeling this morning.

For what they are worth, my view of the team was:

Howard (6) - Didn’t particularly do anything wrong, and he coped with that cheeky back-flick competently, but if he didn’t communicate sufficiently to Yobo, he must take some blame for the second goal. Doesn’t seem to be commanding the box as well at present and perhaps that is unsettling the defence.

Pip (7) - A solid game and better distribution and attack-minded runs than I saw last season. Much less defensive duties on his flank, but coped with what he had to.

Yobo (6) - He improved in the second half, but needed to after a shaky first half, and he was lacking positional awareness when he intercepted the cross-field ball and put in his own net - although the apparent lack of communication with/from Howard was disappointing. Overall still not at his best so far this season.

Jags (8) - Yes, he’s still prone to clearing the lines with a long ball, but at present I’ll take that, given that he’s our most solid, dependable and hard-working defender. He shored-up the central defence well - especially in the second half, and I’m happy to see him there instead of being a fish out of water in midfield.

Roger (5) - He gets that rating largely for his attacking support down the left flank (although his touch isn’t always there). Defensively, he had a bad one, and not for the first time this season. The occasional defensive slip-up was evident even last season, but his overall command of the box, whether on the left or in the centre always compensated for that. Last night he was well and truly fleeced by the winger, lacked pace or positional awareness and was lucky not to give away a late penalty as well. A lack of confidence (or even over-cobfidence in his abilities)? Fitness? Unhappy about playing on the left (although after some recent central displays he shouldn’t be)? Unsettled by I don’t think he received enough cover from the mid-field (something Peanuts does and Carsley used to do), but I think Moyes needs to get to the bottom of our defensive frailties and Lescott’s loss of form as a top priority.

Castillo (7) - Neither the ’awesome’ game that a few posters suggest, nor the ’poor’ one mentioned by some others. A solid enough performance for his 2nd game, some nice touches and a cracking goal, but I think he needs to put himself about in that defensive midfield role a bit more (and give more cover), but I see a lot of potential in him - which is good, because we need that defensive steel in that position more than his attacking potential at present.

Ossie (7) - Coming back from injury, I thought he had a solid enough performance last night, with some good touches. I still can’t see him as the long-term answer to our need for a more creative attacking midfield, but as a squad player he has value.

Tiny Tim (7) - Hustled well, and while I still think he’s got another couple of levels to climb after his injury (I think he understandably faded as the game wore on), he is a welcome return. I’d like to see him play just behind Yakubu more consistently and feed off his scraps, and his headers never really came off (although if Vaughany had left a couple of late crosses to him, who knows).

Our ’Tater (6) - Given he saw so much ball and had some nice touches, it pains me to have to rate him relatively low. His crosses and corners continue to frustrate (as they did last season) as he really struggles to get the ball beyond the first defender. His free kicks are becoming a touch predictable, and I feel some of his touches have more to do with him trying to catch the national coach’s eye than supporting the team. All that said, it’s clear to see that he is still one of our few truly classy players on the pitch, and much of the issue is the marking he is attracting and our over-reliance on him to conjure up some magic. With Peanuts back on the left and Fellaini in the centre, I’m hoping we’ll start to see the true Arteta in future games. I just wish he’d throw away the white boots and get some black ones which are shaped to provide a bit more loft to his crosses and set pieces.

Vic (7.5) - I was actually encouraged by his overall performance and his work-rate (something I haven’t always been) and it was a real shame to see him stretchered off. Looked bright on the flank and later in the centre as we reverted to 4-4-2, and while a fully-fit Saha might usurp him, I see more potential than the back end of last season.

Yak (7) - His natural striker’s ability was clear to see for the goal and a few other touches, but in general he was well-marshalled by the Belgians as the game wore on, and perhaps as a result of occassionally coming deeper, I felt he didn’t spark fully. One of the few players I don’t expect a 100% work rate from (I remember the joy of seeing Duncan McKenzie in the 70s!) provided we hustles in the box.

Vaughny (6) - Little time to impose himself and got in the way of Tiny a few times, but always good to see him getting more match time, if only to see if the future potential is still there (and he’s not going to do a Jeffers).

In summary, some poor defensive play (the story of the season so far) and still lacking that central creative midfield presence we have craved for a while (something which Fellaini will hopefully bring - in the EPL at least!), but I also saw enough improvement in ball possession and inter-play to suggest that the return of the likes of Peanuts, a fitter Cahill, the hopeful settling-in of Fellaini and Castillo, and even the option of Saha (although I’m not holding my breath on that one) might just start to turn the season.

However, as far as the UEFA Cup is concerned, I think it might be adios in a fortnight, as Standard Liege are a competent enough side. Still - with the need to Moyes to go for a win (like last season’s home leg v Florentina) rather than a draw - you never know? I don’t doubt our ability to score goals at present - it just needs our defence to stop shipping them as fast!

COYBs

Like Sam Bones - Looking around at the empty seats dotted around the Old Lady last night, I was disappointed by our attendance for what was going to be a night where the ’12th man’ was really needed.

Don’t know whether it reflected the pessimism of fans for our chances in this tie, the after-taste of the summer transfer window, EGM, investment arguments, poor home start or even the spectre of the credit crunch (with watching it on TV being a much cheaper option).

Must admit, if he can’t get a reasonable gate for games like these, I fear for the financial predictions based on full attendance at Kirkby!!!

I'm quietly confident we can go over there and get a result, if we can get back to basics in defence and get back to how we usually are being solid and dependable at the back and very rarely concede goals then I think we could go through because we have got enough goals in us, the Yak is on fire at the moment and with Cahill and Osman getting some much needed training and match practice behind them within the next couple of weeks, they?ll benefit from that.

Hopefully we can learn from are mistakes last night and tighten up at the back and go over there and do a job on ?em. If we can get back to are best at the back and shut up shop over in Belgium, I'm confident in us to nick a goal or two over there and if we can get two good results in the league before hand especially the derby, then we?ll be buzzing with confidence going over to Belgium!! COYB!!!!

I thought Castillo’s positional play was superb, something we’ve not had for a long time. I also think we ar geting caught out by not having any pace in midfield. Balls seem to be coming through far too easily to opposition’s midfielders who are breaking with pace away from us. Mad game, I’ve had scores of shite fans mail me that we conceded two goals in 45 minutes against a team who didn’t score in over 180 mins against them. None have mentioned that we scored 2 against the same team they failed to break down....

COYB!

Martin - thanks for the clarification, I'm glad it wasn?t our boys booing.

Can anyone on this board again explain to me where the 50,000 supporters are going to come from on a weekly basis at whatever new stadium we build if we can only get 28,000 for a European night????...how about we build a nice tidy 40,000 seater and everyone has a great seat with fantastic views? And the place will be full and rocking instead of looking like it did on the telly last night.

I am incredibly surprised that people are saying Castillo was "woeful". He was not brilliant, I accept, but he was amongst the bettter players on the pitch. He showed good movement, always trying to be available; he rarely wasted possession. Talk of poor control is totally wide of the mark. In fact, he is one of the few Everton players who doesn’t feel the need to take a touch before moving the ball on smartly. If we utilise the man effectively, he will make us a much slicker team, as too will Fellaini. So no, he wasn’t brilliant, but to say he was "woeful" is simply ridiculous!!!

Sorry to change the subject - But is the exiled blue James Power my old mate from Wallasey?
COYB

I thought Castillo did well last night, the thing im impressed with him the most is that he always shows for the ball and looks to play positively you know he doesnt look to take the easy option and lay it straight back to whoever as just passed it to him he turns on the ball and looks to go wide or forward! but what pissed me off was every time Castillo dropped deep for the ball, Jags and Yobo ignored him and mostly looked to go long and by pass are midfield, we were at are best last night when playing it on the deck but Jags, Yobo and Neville most of time always want to punt it long or chip it into space where no one is, hopefully in time with Castillo and Fellaini in midfield, by passing it might be a thing of the past!!

Look I?m going to put my head over the metaphorical parapet here.

I was not overly impressed by Castillo.

There I said it.

For me Mark O?Brien?s (When the skies are grey) match report better summaries my feelings than anything I could?ve mustered: ?The Ecuadorian needs to improve enormously if he wants to stay in the side when everyone is fit, because there’s a massive difference between keeping things simple and shirking responsibility, which is what he does with those Li Tie hospital balls. In fact, he looked way out of his depth, especially in the first half, but credit where it’s due, he took his goal superbly.?

How can there be such opposite views on the same player (Castillo)? David, Ian and you others are certainly entitled to your opinion, but it baffles me how you lads view his performance. Apart from Phil Neville he was the only player who contributed both in the back and front. Apart from one silly misspass in the second half, he looked pretty solid. Jags, Yobo and Lescott did not even come close in performance.

As usual a very neutral, positive report by Ken. Well done.

Basically we need to keep clean sheets, the defense that Moyes prides himself on is non-existent this year. Remember a few seasons back we had like 6 consecutive 1-0 wins or something? We have to make ourselves hard to beat and we have not done that this season with some really shocking defending.< Jags has looked way off, perhaps hs stint in midfield has made him lose some confidence, Lescott is looking shaky, and only Yobo can come away with any merit really. We need bodies who can come in, some like Weir and Stubbs who won’t let us down and will let our first teamers not take their place for granted. Because the squad is thin, some guys are taking it easy.

I’m sure we’ll get it back, but we need to hang on till the Jan window.

It is amazing how differently people view a game and a player’s contribution. In the two games he’s played - with very little preparation time or opportunity to gel with the team - Castillo has looked a very decent player.

I think Ken nailed it in his report. Rather than hiding ... poor first touch ... wayward passing ... lacking bottle ... being woeful (as some have labelled him), I too thought he constantly took up good positions all over the pitch and on too many occasions was ignored. He is quick, neat and tidy in his work, seems technically adept and demonstrates good awareness and positional play. And I certainly didn’t see him bottle any challenges.

But then ... maybe those criticising his (and the Yak’s ...) first touch have a point. I mean ... WTF was Castillo about ...? Trying to trap the ball and succeeding only in shinning it into the net from 25 yards, whilst the Yak also lucked out with his first touch for his goal... (irony alert for those slow on the uptake).

Another irony is that what has been the strength of Moyes’ teams since he joined us - the defence - is individually and collectively now playing so badly. The team now looks as if it has goals in it all over the park. It’s a pity, then, that it makes it a damn sight harder to get anything from a game when you’ve got to score three yourself to get a draw or a win for your efforts. That for me is going to be decisive on just how successful (or not...) our season is going to be - stop leaking the goals.

Last night:

Castillo - Confident. Positive. Yes, he didnt complete every pass, but neither did any other player. He?s a breath of fresh air.

There is no comparison to Carsley. Castillio is simply different class.

HOOF ball - Biggest protagonist is Mr Neville. Get rid. He isn't good enough.

On a slightly different note, they obviously received a number of bookings last night, 5 or 6 I think. If any of these same players received bookings in their previous Champs League games, do they count in the UEFA cup meaning they may be banned for the return leg? I understand it is a different comp, but Fellaini is cup tied!! Plucking at straws I know, but something we discussed at the game and no-one was too sure.

I really think Castillo looks a poor player. Too easily the Liege midfielders found a way through him, his touch was poor and his passing often wayward. I really don?t think the back four are confident playing with a 17-year-old infront of them (Rodwell) and I don?t think Castillo is the answer. This is definitely our problem area this year and why we are leaking goals.

Why are there people complaining about the low attendance? And why are they saying it looked crap on the telly!!! FFS, go the match then and it will be full and you won't have to watch it on the telly!