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TrustEverton.com Update 2

By Tony I'Anson & Mike Owen :  15/02/2011 :  Comments (80) :
The proposal to set up an Evertonians' supporters trust has moved forward.

First, thanks to everyone who has posted on the website forums in response to the previous update. All your comments have been read and considered. Further thanks to those who offered their services. Again, all noted; we are compiling a database of skills and intend to be in individual contact with each of you. Obviously, this may take some time.

Next, we are trying to set up the trust in such a manner that allows maximum possible input from people living long distances from Goodison Park. We expect a large proportion of members to be living in various parts of Britain and overseas. Tony I'Anson, for example, is one of many Merseysiders whose home is now more than 200 miles away ? in Scotland.

Accordingly, we hope to make full use of modern technology so that Evertonians from around the world can participate in Trust Everton as much as possible. With further developments in technology, this should become easier in the future.

Since the last update, we have had two meetings with officers of Supporters Direct (the body that assists and monitors supporter?s trusts). One was in London, the other in Liverpool.

We have covered a wide range of issues. There are the "nuts and bolts" issues of how an Everton supporters trust would operate best, given that it will have members around the world.

Then there are the issues particular to our club. Obviously, we read with interest the latest set of accounts, noting the debts we have and the interest we pay each year to commercial companies for loans etc.

People ask: What is the point of Trust Everton? What are you hoping to achieve?

Basically, the answer is: To help secure the future of the club.

To this end, we want to put forward the proposal that Trust Everton ? through money raised ? should own and secure assets for the benefit of Everton Football Club (we are NOT talking about fees or wages for players).

In simple terms, the club currently has approx. £45m of debt to 3rd party commercial financial companies and pays significant interest. To protect the club, the Trust would simply like to see the debt loaned by the trust and these assets secured by the trust.

Investors in the trust would receive a dividend each year and know their investment was safe and the club would pay a reduced rate of interest ? a ?win-win? for both sides.

We shall be contacting the club chief executive to see if he is open to this idea and if the club would prefer to take a loan from the fans rather than the bank You can rest assured that such a task would be carried out for the trust by people with the necessary skills and experience. We shall keep you informed.

Trust Everton is a work in progress. We ask Evertonians for support and patience.

Reader Comments

Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer


Andy Whittingham
1   Posted 15/02/2011 at 15:21:39

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I may like to offer my skills to the cause, what is the best way of contact?
Tony I'Anson
2   Posted 15/02/2011 at 15:33:23

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Andy,
If anyone wants to get in touch direct for now, please email enquiries@trusteverton.com

You will get an automated reply to confirm we have received your email and we are collating all contacts for now.

thanks

tony
Mike Rourke
3   Posted 15/02/2011 at 15:37:44

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I'm in full support of the concept of TrustEverton but my first instincts upon reading this update are 'Drop in the ocean' and 'Throwing good money after bad'

Why am I wrong?
Tommy Coleman
4   Posted 15/02/2011 at 15:33:27

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I like what you're trying to do.

A question though, to be able to secure these loans isn't the Trust going to have to prove that it can pay back the £45m ?

Are there any more details we can read up on ?
Eric Myles
5   Posted 15/02/2011 at 15:53:55

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Tommy, the Trust isn't going to be borrowing £45M, it is going to be lending it to the Club, or at least whatever can be raised.
Peter Dawn
6   Posted 15/02/2011 at 15:56:39

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I have been a blue for 56 years and the only real way to sort out the current mess of the Premier League, and ultimately Everton's situation, is to make the whole league more financially balanced, instead of a few rich clubs (bringing in top players from around the world.....). and then there is the rest of us. A salary cap. It has worked in North America..... Good luck getting any of the big financial clubs going for it though..... I look forward to seeing were this all goes... Good Luck to you all.
Ontario, Canada
Johnny Darkhouse
7   Posted 15/02/2011 at 16:23:11

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in simple terms if there were 45,000 trust members and each invested £1000 in the trust then the trust would collectively have raised £45,000,000 which could be then invested as equity in everton or as a loan to everton. The interesting part would be the negotiations with the everton board on the equity stake agreed and the voting rights or in the case of a loan the collateral or charges made against the loan.
Matthew Lovekin
8   Posted 15/02/2011 at 16:12:29

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Tony & Mike: are you registering supporters already (apart from the emails) on some sort of database? It may be easier to start recording supporters contact details now, rather than leave it to the last minute.

There also need to be some clear targets of the Trust, i.e:

1. Securing shares
2. New stadium/renovation fund
3. Clearing the club's debt
etc
etc

I also think it would be a very good idea to have a website as well as just an email system to provide updates, minutes of meetings, etc with each registered supporter having their own password or PIN to log on.

You're doing an excellent job so far, keep up the listening to fans!
Johnny Darkhouse
9   Posted 15/02/2011 at 16:31:18

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Tony, mike

Do you have a target with respect to the number of potential members of the trust, the amount to be raised and the timescale in raising the funds. Also do you have any feel for the actual value of the entire equity of everton FC?
Johnny Darkhouse
10   Posted 15/02/2011 at 16:36:20

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Sorry matthew (9) great minds think alike
Al Reddish
11   Posted 15/02/2011 at 16:37:16

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I am all for this, however, once the debt is 'secured' in the hands of the trust, whats to stop the current board taking out even more loans and creating their own 'new debt', knowing that they may be bailed out by us again. After all, love is blind..........you only need to look at my first wife to know that!!!!!!!!
Tony I'Anson
12   Posted 15/02/2011 at 17:09:38

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The website is currently password protected as we can't let it open to everyone yet. We would encourage anyone who is interested in either helping out or just joining the trust to email

enquiries@trusteverton.com

If anyone has any suggestions of targets to achieve (#9 Matthew) and how to achieve them, please post on here for now for all to see and debate.

We are reading everything, although not responding immediately to all posts, given that there's lots going on.
Thomas James
13   Posted 15/02/2011 at 17:15:08

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Tony - might be worth you getting in touch with "Evertonians for Change" group...It seems they are a few steps ahead and have dialogue with Robert Elstone - might save you wasting time.

http://www.sos1878.co.uk/everton-fans/everton-respond-evertonians-change-letter/
Matthew Lovekin
14   Posted 15/02/2011 at 17:24:19

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Tony & Mike: in response to Thomas (13), it'll be a good idea to contact as many unofficial Everton groups as possible. I presume you have 'spread the word' on other sites as well as ToffeeWeb? even including Facebook or Twitter Everton pages. The idea is just to contact as many Evertonians as possible.

Also, how do you contact Evertonians that don't have internet access? What about 'celebrities' that are unlikely to go on websites like ToffeeWeb? Sir Terry Leahy, Paul McCartney, John Parrott, Matt Dawson, Dave Vitty, even ex-players like Duncan Ferguson, Joe Royle, Howard Kendall. How do we get them involved? If they are interested, they surely can provide a use (financial)?. Do fans want people like that involved? I'm not one to discriminate, so if they are fans, then why not?

But one person, one vote, everyone is equal, but donations welcome!
Dennis Stevens
15   Posted 15/02/2011 at 17:31:39

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I'd be quite keen for the Trust to try & secure the freehold for Goodison Park, & maybe Finch Farm too while we're about it.. Owning the freehold of our current home would give the supporters some influence over what the Club might choose to do as regards future stadium plans.
Ste Henderson
16   Posted 15/02/2011 at 17:45:25

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I'm liking the idea very much. Something has to be done to protect this club.
Rupert Coghlan
17   Posted 15/02/2011 at 17:57:47

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The various groups and movements out there have to be aligned or this sort of thing will never gain momentum.

Otherwise it's a case of (blatant Life of Brian steal here)

The Peoples Front of Judea
The Judean Peoples Front
The Popular Judean Peoples Front etc etc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb_qHP7VaZE
John Jennings
18   Posted 15/02/2011 at 18:11:22

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Tony/Mike - good to read about the progress you are making. It is certainly the right strategy to think this all through very carefully before taking the plunge. If the Trust had both a financial goal (erase the debt) and a physical goal - secure our future at GP, or whatever the best viable ground option is - then I think this would really fly. I also think Matt's idea of celeb involvement is good as that creates interest and publicity. BK likes to be surrounded by the glitterati, so imagine the strength of the argument if Macca, Sir Terry or whoever was on board, even as an honorary patron.

BTW - if either of you guys are heading to Stamford Bridge on Saturday - shout and we could plan for a Blue future in the local boozer.
Charlie Percival
19   Posted 15/02/2011 at 18:53:23

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Tony, Mike, please can you supply the links for the other two articles i.e the proposal and update 1. thanks
James Hollister
20   Posted 15/02/2011 at 18:26:47

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Get the Kenwright out groups unified and get the board out.

I think most of these groups are of the same opinion, keeping this board in power is not the way to go..by loaning them money from supporters keeps fat lying billy on his birch longer than is necessary.

Creative accounting will be the order of the day which you can bet on. But that won't matter as long as Evertonian's who gave their money get it back in dividends. With this board it will be heavily abused if they went for it..so I say with this board no thank you.
Tony I'Anson
21   Posted 15/02/2011 at 18:57:35

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Charlie http://www.toffeeweb.com/season/10-11/comment/fan/17106.html which links to the original article.

I'm not going John, sorry.
Brian Lloyd
22   Posted 15/02/2011 at 19:09:56

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I think James (19) raises a concern I feel many Evertonians may share about being seen to support the current regime. I think more will buy into the idea if the trusts aim is to purchase a shareholding in the club (however small) which, longer term, would give us a bit more clout in the boadroom and influence change. Is this an option? If it is I'm on board.
Cian Long
23   Posted 15/02/2011 at 19:32:17

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its great news that the trust is moving forward. i actually thaught it was a fly by night job to be honest and it would be all forgotten about. i think alot of evertonians especially the ones that read and contribute to this site have their moods dictated by what goes on at Everton, and to be honest its breaking my heart whats going on. We had the 90's crap, and i really thaught we were over the "blip". i dont watch football anymore its that bad, (including everton for the past 4 months) watching bloody united, spurs etc and knowing our club is in the mire i just dont stop thinking about everton when another team is playing....sad or what but thats the way it is, and the transfer windown was the ultimate. for me to have a share and have a hand in pushing everton on means a huge deal to me and i know for a fact that alot of irish toffees feel the exact same. this trust has to be set up as a facebook page asap. this could be the making of Everton FC and stick the 2 fingers up to the prawn cracker brigade that is the majority of the premiership. keep up the good work Tony & Mike
Paul Carr
24   Posted 15/02/2011 at 20:48:26

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Tony, I fail to see the logic or any real commercial benefits behind raising £45 million from supporters merely to loan it to the club at a lower interest rate (is this a realistic financial target supported by any research?). The Board would remain the same?
Surely such a sum should be used to buy equity from the Kenwright team. Ideally you should aim to acquire a minimum 51% controlling stake which values the club at approx £90 million, close to BK's apparent valuation.

With the existing smaller shareholders presumably supporters, the club would really become the People's Club. As BK has been searching for such an investor for years, this scenario should be a dream deal for both parties.

Paul Carr
25   Posted 15/02/2011 at 21:10:00

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Tony. Terry Leahy is leaving Tesco in March "to concentrate on private investments". It would be worth trying to establish asap if those plans include Everton in any way.
David Thomas
26   Posted 15/02/2011 at 22:32:35

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Paul,

I don't think anyone in their right mind could seriously think the fans would be able to raise £45 million pound
Paul Carr
27   Posted 15/02/2011 at 22:39:15

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David, that appears to be the Trust's objective, as set out above. Perhaps Tony/ Mike can clarify why they think this is acheivable?
Bob Parrington
28   Posted 16/02/2011 at 00:12:19

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Some good points coming in. Great to see!

In terms of building up the £45M, I'm not sure what the initial plan is but, for those wondering, let's just do some sums: 30,000 (world-wide supporters) £250 per year over 5 years = £41.25M including approx 5% pa average interest (just for example).

OK, some fans won't pledge anything, some fans can't afford anything. Others can and will pledge £1,000 pa for 5 years. Others will pledge well in excess of this, particularly some ex-players, businesses and professionals. Just say...

500 pledge £5,000 pa for 5 years (= £12.5M + interest);
3,000 pledge £1,000 pa for 5 years (= £15M +interest);
3,000 pledge £500 pa for 5 years (= £7.5M + interest);
5,000 pledge £100 pa for 5 years (= £2.5M + interest).

I think (with average 5% interest) this again comes to £41.25M (by coincidence).

(I've done this in my head so, please, no comments about my lousy maths if it's wrong).

This is 11,500 supporters or perhaps includes supporter groups etc. Ok, just playing with figures but... not an impossible task!
Keep on keeping on, Tony and Mike
COYB

Eric Myles
29   Posted 16/02/2011 at 01:08:49

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I thought that the principle of a Supporters Trust is that members cannot receive dividends from membership and all profit has to be re-invested in the Trust.
Eric Myles
30   Posted 16/02/2011 at 01:37:10

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Brian #22, a small shareholding isn't going to have any influence with the board, they cancelled AGMs remember?

The only way to have influence in shareholding is to hold the majority of shares and I don't see any of the current major shareholders being willing to sell up.

Robbie Shields
31   Posted 16/02/2011 at 02:56:46

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Eric, if Trust Everton managed to raise a sizeable amount then we could apply pressure on the board to force them to sell a controlling interest. BK's investment is worth nothing if no-one buys season tickets or goes to Goodison until he sells up. His only other option would be to go into Administration, and who would be there with a sackful of money to buy the club out? Trust Everton.

Look what happenned in Egypt, Mubarak didn't want to go, but in the end, he had no choice.
Eric Myles
32   Posted 16/02/2011 at 03:04:13

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The problem I see with taking over the £45M debt is that it doesn't provide any new investment into the club except the 'saving' of interest payments, which is £4.5M pa. That will be lost in increased costs year on year and I don't see the possibility of any of the current shareholders suddenly putting their hands in their pockest to invest in the Club.

So the £45M would be better used as an investment, even interest free, say to improve a stand in the stadium. That way the Club get an immediate capital injection of £45M as opposed to £4.5M.

As Goodison is ?valued? at £8M, the Trust could even buy the ground and use the balance to improve it.

Would you rather listen to someone who wants to give you £45M cash in hand or someone who wants to give you the possibility of getting £4.5M?
Eric Myles
33   Posted 16/02/2011 at 03:07:45

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Robbie #31, unfortunately we don't have the CIA funding our opposition to our Dear Leader.
Robbie Shields
34   Posted 16/02/2011 at 03:38:43

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Eric, That really is a great idea! Trust Everton own Goodison and do it up over time stand by stand, something the current board haven't been able to do because apparently there is no enabler, we might just create one.
Anthony Hawkins
35   Posted 16/02/2011 at 07:43:49

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Tony I'Anson & MIke Owen, The idea of the trust is a great idea. Unfortunately, I can not see how a one-off payment of £45m to the board will help. Why? Because it too will get swallowed up with more money being required the following season and the season after.

I do understand the eagerness to resolve Everton's financial situation and return them to glory; however, this resolution is only beneficial in the immediate term and does nothing to secure the long-term financial future. The issue has to be dealt with at the root of the cause and not by "fire fighting".

Good luck in your cause.
Dave Brooks
36   Posted 16/02/2011 at 08:03:21

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Tony, Mike ? thanks for the update and for all your hard work.

It?s only supposition on my part, but I suspect that the club will prefer debt to traditional creditors whose decisions are purely commercially motivated over debt to supporters who often have other motivations. Will reduced interests rates be worth the pain that being in debt to ? currently ? angry supporters will almost inevitably bring?

My principal concern at this point is over Trust Everton?s mission, from which all the trust?s activities flow.

Football is a sport and a game but it?s also ? currently ? a product. No product, not even the EPL, lasts for ever. Once the product EPL goes off the market or weakens (the bubble bursts) will Trust Everton need a new mission?

Personally, I would ideally like to see a more specific mission that will also stand up in the post EPL world and ? of course ? explicitly involves Everton fans and/or trust members.

If none of that makes sense I?m sorry. Wednesday?s my day off and I?ve just got up from my lie-in and only had one coffee?
Kevin Roberts
37   Posted 16/02/2011 at 08:16:31

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Dave (#36), I agree totally with this and we should be looking for long-term goals rather than short-term fixes. Short term we are going to have to work with the board we have; long term hopefully develop the club for both owners and supporters alike.

Still I'm fully supportive and will be contacting Tony, Mike later to both join and offer what little help/support I can.

Dave Brooks
38   Posted 16/02/2011 at 08:23:10

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Kevin#7.
Same here.

My email's in drafts and goes off today.
Dave Brooks
39   Posted 16/02/2011 at 08:38:48

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Sorry... Kevin#37.

(Need more coffee).
Kase Chow
40   Posted 16/02/2011 at 08:48:41

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Am supportive and would be pleased to pledge £1000 to the cause

However, I agree with many of the posters above that the current board can't be 'trusted' to 'manage' our club and thus the £45M raised (let's be optimistic) towards debt won't be sufficient as the debt increases due to mismanagement.

I'd MUCH rather our monies raised goes towards tangible assets e.g. buying Goodison Park or Finch Farm so that a) we have genuine hold over the board and they're forced to dialogue with us; b) there is a something material that Trust Everton own i.e. the monies are invested rather than loaned (are we trying to create a 'bank'? Very ambitious if so) and c) there is a vehicle set up for the long term that allows people to withdraw their money if required. The reason I suggest this is that if we create something commercially viable we may even one day get non Everton investors as the vehicle provides a stable investment

Good luck chaps ? am impressed you're following through with your initial vision.
Derek Thomas
41   Posted 16/02/2011 at 09:18:31

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Dennis Stevens, yeah , that the way to go. I said it when the trust was first mooted:

Buy Goodison out from under them, off who ever has the mortgage, then Finch Farm. Then Shares, then we have a stick to wack them with and an official stance to do it. Then the debt.

The assets first, then the negative assets, which is what the debt is(?).

More power to your elbow Tony and Mike. Spread the word.
Colin Fitzpatrick
42   Posted 16/02/2011 at 09:57:24

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First of all I think the concept of Trust Everton is perhaps the best idea that the fans have had in my time as an Evertonian; Tony and Mike need all the support and encouragement from the fanbase that they deserve.

My understanding is that supporters trusts, in place of simply buying shares, actual set aims and objectives to secure protected assets for the good of the club and the trust.

This is not limited to one proposed aim, it could be many and it is actually the members of the trust who vote on the proposals and dictate the policy and direction in true democratic fashion.

Finch Farm has been mentioned by many, this currently costs Everton approx £1.5m per season; if the trust could secure Finch Farm on a commercial basis and perhaps charge the club only £1m this would be a win-win situation with the trust having available funds to look at other "protected asset" proposals which could, or could not, include elements of the current debt being paid to third party organisations, but this would always be on a commercial footing and would always be voted upon by the membership, many of which could be outside the UK so it's refreshing to see the proposed use of technology to facilitate this.

I think it's misleading for some to jump the gun and assume the trust would simply be no more than a device to bail out the hapless board through taking on the current debt burden.

Well done guys, keep up the excellent work; as someone who has undertaken a little "extra curricular" work, as no more than a fan myself, I know how much time and effort you must be putting in.
Jamie Rowland
43   Posted 16/02/2011 at 09:57:12

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Removing the debt from the club would however make it appear to make money?! If this was to be the case, the club would surely become more attractive to the real investors out there?
Eric Myles
44   Posted 16/02/2011 at 10:18:29

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Jamie #44, it wouldn't be removing the debt, just transferring it to another creditor, the debt would still show in the accounts.

Kase #40, the Trust would basically operate like a charity, you can put money in but you won't be able to draw it out or sell your 'share' if it becomes commercially viable.
Ernie Baywood
45   Posted 16/02/2011 at 10:18:00

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I don't think so, Jamie. The club would have the same level of debt, just without paying interest (or the same level of interest).

Lots of ideas above regarding owning Goodison or holding some sort of sway at the club centre around a trust having some equity in the club, which as I understand it the trust wouldn't. It would simply be a loan from supporters rather than banks.

I think a supporters trust is a great idea, but would people donate knowing that they were simply giving Kenwright exactly what he is acussed of on these boards? ie Investment that does not dilute his shareholding and allows him to hold onto the club via loans without generating any actual investment.

My own opinion is that the trust should gain some equity in the club through a new issue of shares to the trust (diluted ownership in an asset of greater value). Could Kenwright seriously reject it? His stance has always been that he won't hand over ownership to anyone who won't look after his club - well its the fans' club so a share issue to fans would have to be ok with him wouldn't it?

Apologies if I've got it all wrong - I'm no financial whizz.
Liam Reilly
46   Posted 16/02/2011 at 11:52:03

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There is very likely to be hidden costs in paying of any mortgages of this size in an immediate term and therefore £45M would unlikely clear the debt.

This would also more likely become a debt restructuring exercise for the board and generate some small revenue in the short term;, however, it is not a substainable long term business model. Operating cost will continue to rise and the debt would grow again.

The Trust needs to have a voice and that means equity in the club. It then needs to work with the current custodians towards reducing the wagesturnover ratio substantially, whilst also looking to grow the Brand locally and globally.
Roger Trenwith
47   Posted 16/02/2011 at 12:51:53

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Great idea.

I think buying GP as some suggest would be a good move, but, 'scuse me if I'm being thick, but if I pay off a mate's mortgage, the deeds will be sent to my mate, not me.

So, unless Everton Football Club Co Ltd would be willing to transfer the title to the Trust, then the Trust own nothing and have no control over how the reduced debt (ie, increased capacity to borrow) is used. The club could simply remortgage GP and we'd be back to square one...

Eric Myles
48   Posted 16/02/2011 at 13:17:19

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Normally I would say you're right Roger, but look what happened over the park, the RS were sold off from under the owners for the price of the debt.
Eric Myles
49   Posted 16/02/2011 at 13:24:24

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Buying into a rights issue is a good idea as it gives money directly to the Club to use, but they could then use if for whatever they want with no direction from the Trust.

Also the rights issue would have to be for the same number of shares issued at present so we'd need more like £90m unless some of the other shareholders bought into it too.

Roger Trenwith
50   Posted 16/02/2011 at 13:32:09

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Eric #49 ? probably because the banks insisted on the H&G going or repaying the debts themselves ? a bit different from just buying one part of a club's assets.

#50 ? As for the rights issue, any monies raised by the club, whether from the Trust or elsewhere via a rights issue, could be used in whatever way the club see fit, unless the Trust gains more than 50% of new global share capital, which at present is not either financially viable or likely to happen, even if the monies could be raised. Also, I'm sure you could have a rights issue of say 1 share for every 2 existing, it doesn't have to be on a one for one.

Tony J Williams
51   Posted 16/02/2011 at 13:37:44

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What's to stop the £45m going straight into the pockets of the players/staff/agents (spit) and never being seen again?
Paul Carr
52   Posted 16/02/2011 at 13:54:36

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Tony/Mike one of your first objectives should be to call a general meeting so that key STRATEGIC questions can be asked of the board. The EU Shareholders' Rights Directive (2009) states that:

Shareholders holding at least 5% of the shares can require directors to call a general meeting (the previous threshold was 10%).

That means you will need to have support from 1750 shares. As there are 10764 shares not owned by the Kenwright gang of 4 (including Carter).

David Thomas
53   Posted 16/02/2011 at 14:02:47

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Do people really believe that a trust would be able to raise anywhere near the £45 million being quoted? Whilst I applaud the idea, I think people will have to be a bit more realistic about the figures being banded about or they may be very disappointed.
Mike Owen
54   Posted 16/02/2011 at 14:11:23

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David, No 54,

Re £45m, that's the level of debt to third party commercial financial companies, and yes, it would be a huge task to raise that sum. We should have phrased that part of the piece better; we rushed it out due to pressure of time. Apologies. We are initially thinking of the trust owning an asset, which, for sake of argument, could cost say £10m; now that is achievable.

Paul, No 53, there is a lot of things a well structured trust could do. Vital to get it set up in the right way though. All points raised to be addressed in next update, which will be as soon as possible.

John, No 18, please send your email to the TrustEverton address given by Tony.

Paul Carr
55   Posted 16/02/2011 at 14:20:56

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Is the Shareholders Association still active? They could be a useful supporter of the Trust.
Brian Lloyd
56   Posted 16/02/2011 at 14:26:16

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Tony and Mike. Have you considered approaching the likes of Sir Terry Leahy or Lord Grantchester to ask for their views on a supporters trust? Would it encourage them to invest in or launch a takeover bid for the club with the trust as a potential partner, or is that too far fetched? (Expecting to be shot down in flames, but one has to dream...)
Eric Myles
57   Posted 16/02/2011 at 15:19:06

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Roger #51, I'm not 100% certain (only 99%) but I beleive a share split has to be 1 to 1 minimum. It could be 2 new to 1 existing but not 1 new to 2 existing.

Tony #52, because there would be conditions and a contract on the use of the money by the Club.

Dave Brooks
58   Posted 16/02/2011 at 16:38:24

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Just a thought for Tony and Mike:
These are long threads and they're full of information, argument and counter argument.

For you forthcoming website, it may be useful - if not already planned - to prepare an FAQ section which could be built up based, in part, on the questions posed, and answers provided, here.
Tony I'Anson
59   Posted 16/02/2011 at 16:54:09

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Yes, Dave that's what we plan to do. Keep the questions coming.
Dave Brooks
60   Posted 16/02/2011 at 18:07:42

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Thanks.
Good to know.
Dave.
Dave Brooks
61   Posted 16/02/2011 at 18:17:09

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Tony #59
P.S. If you need help with this, please let me know.

I'd be happy to do a manual trawl and pull out questions and prospective answers (to be verified).

If any data miners out there know a better way, shout it out, eh?

All the best - Dave.
Tom Hughes
62   Posted 16/02/2011 at 18:03:57

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Tony and Mike,
I'm sure that this has completely taken over your lives in recent months. It is truly a massive undertaking that you're embarking on, so I'm glad the responses so far seem to mirror your enthusiasm.

As more and more ideas, and potential objectives evolve through this whole process of discussion and updates etc, I'm sure even more Evertonians will become enthused about the possibilities. Then, by the time it is launched, the substance and momentum will carry us all forward..... Best of Luck and thanks for your great efforts in trying to get this off the ground.
Tony I'Anson
63   Posted 16/02/2011 at 18:59:24

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Dave (61) - that would be very helpful. Please email your Q and A list to enquiries@trusteverton.com

Also, if anyone would like to do some research on Internet video conferencing, that would be useful too. (Suitability, pricing, experience of using etc) as we will be making extensive use of this once up and running.

Tom (62) you are quite accurate in your assumption. My Scottish line dancing colleagues will be missing me, and as for my pet haggis.....
Steve Woods
64   Posted 16/02/2011 at 20:27:45

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Tony, I congratulate you on your initiative and effort in this. However like some others I am currently reluctant to contribute. My fear is that it would serve to keep the current (in my view) inept regime in place.
Tom Hughes
65   Posted 16/02/2011 at 22:09:19

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Steve,
I think it's important that we're not prematurely negative on this premise, as I don't think it's an issue. You would be able to vote on how the funds are used. The Trust will be an entirely independent body, perhaps connected via a share-holding, but nevertheless representative of the fanbase itself. I think if anything, that helps fortify the fanbase against inept regimes as it gives them a collective voice with some bargaining power..... otherwise we're just a collection of individuals moaning on forums like this.
David Thomas
66   Posted 16/02/2011 at 22:28:13

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Surely this forum alone shows that there is a wide variety of views on how the club should be run. I imagine people may be reluctant to put their hard earned money into the trust if when the votes are carried out they see that their vote is not coming out on top when the results are announced and so they are spending even more money and still not seeing their ideas come to fruition.
Bob Parrington
67   Posted 16/02/2011 at 22:47:32

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Eric Myles#29. This is a good point for you to mention. This is relevant if the trust registers as a not-for-profit organisation. I'm not sure what the tax rules are in Uk nowadays but we did this in Adelaide when we formed a "federation of ice sports" to take over the Ice Arena business 6 years ago. The whole business works very well and we reinvest the funds. This takes a lot of commitment from a few individuals (as always).
COYB
Michael Kenrick
68   Posted 17/02/2011 at 01:45:18

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So this is how it works for Sunderland, whose figures seem worse than ours in almost every respect, yet they happily announce they are going deeper and deeper into the red to invest in the playing staff and thus avoid the risk of a prolonged period out of the Premier League ...(Eeeek!)

Yet "a loan of £19m from the club's owner, Ellis Short, was capitalised ? or transferred into shares ? in November 2009, and the Texan has since injected interest-free loans of £22.4m and £6m and promised his continued support."

I'm really interested in this loan capitalization. Can someone explain how it works for them and does not fall foul of any rights issue rules? Is this the sort of investment BK has been seeking 24/7 for Everton? Making it more amazing no-one has even taken a little bite...

Is this a model for underwriting investment actions by Trust Everton that would allow them to build share equity over time? Equity that is commensurate with the amount of money invested in the trust by the fans, and resulting in permanent (proportionate) ownership of (a part of) the Club? Surely this has to be the way forward???

Kalidass James
69   Posted 17/02/2011 at 06:52:36

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I have the deepest respect for all who are working towards making this once great People's Club fly high again. Although I am thousands of miles away, I would like to contribute to the cause and will be emailing my contact soon.

Best wishes
Derek Thomas
70   Posted 17/02/2011 at 08:20:25

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David Thomas; I thought I was up there in the Doubting Thomas / grumpy old man stakes, but I bow to your magnificence.

You are missing the whole point. Yes I know that some one has to say... "Yeah, but what about xxxxxx and xxxxxx?"

TrustEverton is the name and 'trust' in all of its forms is the game. This is why they are taking a long time to set it up (fail to prepare ? prepare to fail).

It is, or I hope will, be unscrupulous shyster (and future) proof(ed) ? no more, "I'm bored with this question" / suspending shareholders rights etc etc.

I only wish this was started 10 yrs ago.

In real terms (and Aussie money) what have I got to lose??

$16 per month... 50c per day... 30pence... 5 bob in old money.

I wasn't, aren't, never will be rich, nobody who bangs a clock is, or ever will be, the last time my wages were paid in England was 20 years ago. Even then I had a jar that every day took 20 pence pieces I had as lose change.

That's what the minimum contribution works out to. Get over it and dig behind the sofa, you miserable sod.
Paul Carr
71   Posted 17/02/2011 at 09:09:57

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Michael, there is nothing to stop BK or the other "owners" from doing the same. Ellis is merely protecting his investment, something that you would think BK and his wealthy friends should be seriously considering under the current circumstances. Legally, converting a loan into capital would need shareholder approval.
Yet again we see that, Arsenal apart (who benefitted hugely from cashing in on their Highbury asset), we are in a better financial position than all the other top clubs. The difference between us and them, is the attitude/position of the club's owner.
Eric Myles
72   Posted 17/02/2011 at 10:18:55

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Paul, what stops BK and the others doing the same (capitalising the loans into shares) is that they have never loaned the Club any money, nothing, nada, in the way of investment from their own pockets.
Dave Brooks
73   Posted 17/02/2011 at 16:24:37

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Tony, Mike, all,

I've just emailed enquiries@trusteverton.com with a list of questions, suggestions and observations made by posters on the three TrustEverton forums.

This was a manual trawl of the posts and tries to group together ? for example, questions posed with answers subsequently provided by other posters.

I hope that, along with any advice you can receive from Supporters Direct, it can help provide the basis of an FAQ section for your forthcoming website.

It may also help to highlight some questions which have been posed but not yet answered in these forums.

Good luck to you all. Holidays are calling, and ? thanks to EDSA's Steve Heneghan ? so is the Sunderland game for me and my folks... they're both ex-season ticket holders, both 80 years old and both very excited about going back to Goodison.

Maybe see some of you there.

Graham Smith
74   Posted 17/02/2011 at 21:55:05

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We have been told our biggest impediment to outside investment is because of our stadium. Surely then it would make sense that this would be the first area any trust should look at. If we can influence how we can increase revenue streams for the club then this surely is the quickest way we can see any investment make an impact on the club's overall fortunes.

The idea posted earlier of owning the ground would be a solution that would suit both the trust and the present board, as like it or not they are unlikely to be going anywhere soon. If the trust where to own the ground and be responsible for its upkeep (maybe leasing it back to the club, an extra cost to the club but removing the cost of its maintenance) and look to improve it this could increase the income for the club through improved hospitality and eventually extra capacity.

It would also solve the problem and associated costs of searching for another site and finally give us some direction for the future, knowing we have committed to staying at Goodison. The trust would own a valuable asset as well that with phased improvement will become even more valuable over time.

Who knows with an upgraded stadium we may even become attractive to somebody with real money to invest.
Tony I'Anson
75   Posted 17/02/2011 at 22:15:09

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Many thanks Dave. It came in fine. By the way, it will be "our" website and our trust. All of ours. I'll keep stressing this as we would like to believe that every single Evertonian will join Trust Everton.
Dave Brooks
76   Posted 18/02/2011 at 13:22:20

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You're welcome Tony. The least I could do considering all the hard work you and others are putting in.

Still, as Voltaire said: 'No snowflake in an avalanche ever felt responsible'. If everyone on these boards could give even a few hours of their time to you guys, imagine how fast this could move on.

As for 'our website', from the day I've paid my subs, I won't be calling it anything else. Promise.
Peter Dancer
77   Posted 19/02/2011 at 09:24:05

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Think this is a great idea. Have said it before and i'll say it again. The cost to join cant be prohibitive for those of us who live on a shoestring but still love our club.
Guy Rogers
78   Posted 19/02/2011 at 16:21:33

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I'm in... saving for a wedding at the moment so, just as soon as that is done and dusted, I'll be on board. :-)
Andy Crooks
79   Posted 20/02/2011 at 01:13:33

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Peter Dancer, I agree with you. I've seen posts suggesting a £100 joining fee. In my view, pay what you can afford. If I could afford £500 a month I'd pay it. I could manage a tenner. To me, this seems like the last chance for our club.
Dave Brooks
80   Posted 20/02/2011 at 13:13:03

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I agree with Peter (77) and Andy (79).

I'd rather see low fees (which are still sufficient to make the project work) and have the freedom to contribute more when possible.

That might cause issues re revenue projections for the trust and, hence, make strategic planning more difficult, but I feel it would get more people on-board and involved.

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