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Justification for Moyes as Manager?

By Lee Kidd :  18/09/2010 :  Comments (75) :
I could write one hell of an article here, but it all comes down to one question - can anyone justify David Moyes remaining manager of Everton?

That may sound dramatic, but is there really anything left that people can say is a positive about his management of our club?

We have the same old players guaranteed a place in the squad regardless of performance (I'm not talking about the "obvious" candidates like Osman and Hibbert, atrocious as they are, but I also point a finger at Arteta, Neville and the ilk who have been completely useless thus far.)

Also, this is undoubtedly Moyes's squad. This, in his own words, is his best squad he's ever had. He didn't even feel the need to improve the squad; just to add bits and bobs.

We have won absolutely nothing under his management. In the past three years we've go backwards since the 4th place achievement. We have players out of position despite having a fully fit squad (only two first team players ? Neville and Cahill ? were missing today, along with an impact player in Rodwell).

We have no goalscorers, no Plan B when we go a goal down, no attacking threat down the flanks, players arguing with each other on the pitch.

Granted, we'll probably "come good" in a month or so, and we'll climb up the table and finish in a safe position, probably even top half. But that's not the ambition is it? We don't have a title-winning squad, but nobody is calling for that. What is worrying is that, after so many years under Moyes, we're stagnant ? no, not even stagnant, we're going backwards. We're as far away from Europe as ever.

And Moyes hasn't shown the slightest sign that he's willing to learn from mistakes, adapt and improve. He plays one unproven striker at home to Newcastle.

How long do we have to cope with a manager who, as long as he continues to manage this club, will lead us to mediocrity year on year? I appreciate the job Moyes did in stabilising us in his early years, but come on...

Well, after my first paragraph, I guess I did write an article after all! I constantly hear the counter-argument that "we can't do better than Moyes". But is that performance today (and the previous three as well) really the best we can expect?

All I can say is good luck answering the above rhetoricals, because I can't. I personally think we're fucked as long as Moyes remains in charge ? not because we could be relegated, but because watching Everton is like watching paint dry, whilst punching yourself in the face.

A sad day to be a blue.

Reader Comments

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Michael Kenrick
1   Posted 18/09/2010 at 17:25:22

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Lee: "like watching paint dry, whilst punching yourself in the face" ? Ouch! That is exactly the feeling. I'd pull all my hair out if I had any left. What an utter abomination. I can't even bring myself to write a summary of that total pile of shite for our Match Report. Gutted. Truly gutted.
Nick Entwistle
2   Posted 18/09/2010 at 17:26:10

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Well, this is par for the course isn't it to start shite. The good times will be round the corner... presumably.

Lets just say he does call it quits...

Brian Waring
3   Posted 18/09/2010 at 17:25:32

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The problem is Lee, in a lot of fans eyes the man can do no wrong. Even after the utter shit today, they will still be on here defending him to the hilt.
Martin Trew
4   Posted 18/09/2010 at 17:34:22

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It has been my opinion for a long time that he has no plan B.

Moyes selection is puzzling to my 10 year old daughter.

I'd take the fat spanish waiter over Moyes right now
Brian Waring
5   Posted 18/09/2010 at 17:36:50

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The other thing with Moyes, is that he sets - up, firstly not to get beat, instead of justt going out to actually win the game.
Christopher McCullough
6   Posted 18/09/2010 at 17:35:05

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I'd love Irvine to come back as number 2.

"Fellaini was good today; he's even better in his proper position. Arteta was more like himself toward the end there, going foward. Coleman looked a threat down the wing. Maybe we should try Billy in his proper position"

I reckon that's what Alan would be saying now.
Paul Olsen
7   Posted 18/09/2010 at 17:38:06

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I have defended Moyes in much, but i must concur.

My patience is wearing really,really thin now.

I won't put any more effort into this comment though as the Everton players also refuse to show it.

Ok, one more thing. Worst performance in a long, long time. Horrible and god damn awful.
Rich Torpey
8   Posted 18/09/2010 at 17:37:41

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Lee - couldn't agree more. See the article I wrote after the United game and was published on Bluekipper last week. The only difference today was the timing his substitutions (for once).
Tony Gee
9   Posted 18/09/2010 at 17:46:15

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We can't aford to get rid so let's hope he walks....

The striking options/crisis at the club are entirely his fault....

And as for his puppet, Mr Round.... I wouldn't let that fucker shine my shoes..

Colin Grierson
10   Posted 18/09/2010 at 17:41:55

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I personally wouldn't be happy if we started with one striker AT Newcatle never mind at home to them. The Yak made a diffference when he came on LATE last week as did Coleman. At least they came on at half time this week instead of the usual 70 minutes.
I can't answer any of your rhetoricals Lee. Starting Hibbert and Osman week in week out is nothing short of negligence.

It is indeed a sad day to be a blue.
Nelaj Behajiha
11   Posted 18/09/2010 at 17:47:50

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My problem is this: We could've finananced transfers with signings. If we had sold Jags then we would've had Heitenga and Yobo to repalce him in that position. If we had sold Rodwell we could've had Fellaini, Arteta, Osman, Neville or Heitenga to replace him in the team. These sales could've gained a revenue of around £30 million which could've been used in departments that are lacking.

Our only capable striker is injured for a large parts of the season. Everton are shite at the moment as we will continue to be when we have no pace or skill in the side. How many times do players get in good positions and we just don't have the players to find them? We have two defensive midfielders against Newcastle at home and we still lose.

James I'Anson
12   Posted 18/09/2010 at 17:52:33

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Regardless of his failings, he isn't the main problem.
Martin Mason
13   Posted 18/09/2010 at 17:52:06

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A very bad day for Everton and us poor fans who reasonably expected much and yet have seen a real and amazing collapse. I didn't see the game and I possibly won't watch it. I won't call for Moyes's head even though he's an easy target for at the moment.

Hopefully it's temporary and we'll soon start picking up points again. Would I say crisis? Yes it certainly is as there is no limit on down side in the PL.
Kunal Desai
14   Posted 18/09/2010 at 17:52:40

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If we got Moyes from the championship there is no reason to suggest we can't do it again.
A proactive manager with new ideas and inventions is most certainly needed. Moyes is one dimensional, he keeps saying he is learning but how long is he going to keep learning? With the mistakes he makes he just doesn't want to rectify mistakes and overall is a VERY VERY stubborn man.

Gone are the day of Moyes's Gem buys, we have no money but we need a different type of character someone in the mould of Ian Holloway. Yes you may laugh but then may would have laughed at David Moyes as a contender eight years ago.
James I'Anson
15   Posted 18/09/2010 at 17:57:24

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I think Moyes' refusal to sell is his way of exposing the board for what they are.
Viv Sharma
16   Posted 18/09/2010 at 18:04:08

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Charles King
17   Posted 18/09/2010 at 17:55:24

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just one justification, stability.

Our board are so feckless any serious decision is as informed as Wayne Rooney's grasp of Quantum Theory.

Hope they're being good boy scouts in "being prepared".
Ryan Holroyd
18   Posted 18/09/2010 at 18:06:14

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I've only wavered once before with Moyes and that was when we got stuffed by Villa and Bolton at Christmas about 4 years ago. Now my patience is very very thin. A bit like when your 1st teeth are coming out and the tooth is on it's last thread waiting to fall out. I'm getting very sick of this man. Wrong line up,again, today. Osman can't play right midfield. This has been proven time and time again. Yet he plays there under this manager. 3 centre halfs Playing today, a defensive midfielder playing up front, taking Beckford off to replace him with another forward when he needed support. Buying Billy when he's not got a clue where to play him. Moyes will never win fuck all as a manager. His time has nearly passed. However, we will never do anything in the English game whilst that twat is our chairman.
Mike Green
19   Posted 18/09/2010 at 18:07:27

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Didnt see the game but listened to radio coverage.

Sounded dire. Proper dire.

Heard Arteta mentioned.... oooh... twice? Pienaar.... three... four...? Osman plenty. Tripping over himself.

Only positive was it sounded like Distin had a good game, or am I wrong?

Frustrated. Disappointed. Angry...?

I found out on Wednesday that I might be being made redundant at Xmas.
My boss said "we've got to be prepared to the worst" to which I joked:

"Why, do you really think we could lose to Newcastle on Saturday....?"

Seemed pretty funny at the time.
Dermot Ryan
20   Posted 18/09/2010 at 18:16:34

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Martin: LIke you I'm concerned whether Moyes has the motivational skills and positive attitude to get the best out of his team, but even the suggestion that FSW would do a better job is terrifying. Our fat friend has almost single-handedly ruined the dark host. Atrocious purchases and terrible strategic and tactical decisions week in and week out. The side he had abandoned is SO ugly (literally and in terms of the football they play).

I actually think we have a strong side, but I'm beginning to wonder whether another manager would employ it better.
Michael Kenrick
21   Posted 18/09/2010 at 18:21:45

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Credit where due, Mike, Distin was excellent. He did not put a foot wrong to my mind, and made some vital defensive interceptions. A great recovery after getting slaughtered last week. I'd almost say he was Everton's Man of the Match except that the entire concept only serves to amplify the pain at the minute, after watching the rest of that dismal shite.
Eric Myles
22   Posted 18/09/2010 at 18:20:30

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Face it, BK isn't going to get rid of DM 'cos he's got his arse covered, he always says he has the full backing of the chairman and the board.
So his (DM's) big salary is effectively for him to carry the can.
Mike Green
23   Posted 18/09/2010 at 18:41:11

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Thanks for that Michael - sounds like the mental picture I built up of the teams performance was pretty close then. Jesus...

I'm going to get plastered tonight now then so I either

a) I fall asleep before MOTD

b) If I watch MOTD I wont remember it in the morning

c) I'll be in no fit state to get up at 7am tomorrow to watch the rerun.

I thought we were nailed on today.

Gutted. Properly fucking gutted.
David S Shaw
24   Posted 18/09/2010 at 19:00:39

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What did you expect with a one million pound transfer budget?
Andy Codling
25   Posted 18/09/2010 at 18:58:30

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8 years in charge and STILL playing Osman as his winger, he sponked 10 million up the wall on Billy , who is shit, he plays a defensive midfielder out of position, a centre half who got to the World cup out of position, he has no imagination and cant change games, obvious sub today was take Osman off and replace him with Coleman who then gets covered by Hibbert who was doing ok.
Fucking Dour negative crap
Ian McDowell
26   Posted 18/09/2010 at 19:15:48

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I have had enough that is the 4th time for fucks sake we have needed a goal and finished the match with 1 striker on the pitch, Blackburn, Wolves, Villa and now this.

Something has got to change the Yak looks so overweight and I dont know how this has been allowed straight after pre-season.

they say insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results and how many times have we seen osman and hibbert on the right together, Gueye and Vaughan would atleast be something different.

I am totally fed up, I do have some sympathy with Moyes with the transfer budget but spending all that money on Billy???

And finally Heitinga has been shite this season a def midfielder that didnt put a tackle in today!

I'm off to get shitfaced
Eric Myles
27   Posted 18/09/2010 at 19:15:27

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^Hang on Andy, you can't say Hibbert was doing OK 'cos everyone on Toffeeweb knows that Colman is ENTITLED to start before him based on his 2 prior first teram appearances so far.
Daniel Johnson
28   Posted 18/09/2010 at 19:31:33

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Moyes has had 10 years now and look where we stand.
Some people seem fearful of a new manager saying "if not Moyes then who"?
But remember Moyes in terms of being a premiership manager was a nobody when he took over but to some now hes the untouchable Messiah.
Moyes deserves praise and has received many accolades himself which have somewhat maybe exaggerated how good he is. From afar his work seems outstanding but if you follow Everton daily as we all do we all know it's never been plain sailing under Moyes. Strops, sulks, the contract saga, crisis team meetings yo-yo seasons.
Your only as good as your last game and our last 5 have been fucking shocking.
So why not take chance on something different this website is getting a s erious case of deja-vu as its the same shite we discuss all the time. A lot of mangers would love to work with this squad.
The squad has outgrown/outclassed him. His style of management may suit certain workman like players but in a squad with Arteta, Pienaar, Fellaini, Heitinga etc he doesn't know how to use or utilise such players. He would be happier with players more on his level e.g. Neville, Hibbert and Osman hard honest grafting players.
Tactically we need a new dimension a brave new dawn. We battered Villa and Newcastle for 45 mins after going a goal down but why not start matches like this?
David well done I appreciate your efforts, but to move forward you as a manger must step back.
Jonathan Tasker
29   Posted 18/09/2010 at 19:29:28

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Time for a taxi, methinks.

Actually , with a squad with no forwards that are competent, and you can only blame the manager for that, I am not sure anyone could do any better.

I hope we can buy some forwards in the next transfer window. This is a fight against relegation, I have no doubts about that.
Andy Codling
30   Posted 18/09/2010 at 19:37:41

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Eric , personally I think Hibbert has been doing well we all know his weakness but defending, he has done ok, Coleman warrants a start on the right, I agree.
Richard Dodd
31   Posted 18/09/2010 at 19:44:30

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Bet you lot will be singing the Moyesiah`s praises befroe the year is out. Fickle don`t begin to name it!
Robert Daniels
32   Posted 18/09/2010 at 19:46:03

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"1 million pound transfer fund."

How much did Newcastle's team cost?

Moyes had almost £30 million on the bench; he may have balanced the books, but he has spent over £100 million on players.
James Stewart
33   Posted 18/09/2010 at 20:06:13

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The problem is Moyes. He got it tactically very wrong again! He got out of jail last week otherwise the pressure would be a lot worse.

It's time for a change, end of!
Nelaj Behajiha
34   Posted 18/09/2010 at 20:26:53

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I am dissapointed for us the fans. Our fans are some of the most dedicated fans in the Premier League and we supported the team throughout the game. Moyes isn't under any pressure internally... but externally, me and many others are becoming tired or him and his ways.
Steve Higham
35   Posted 18/09/2010 at 20:19:08

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Today we where totally outplayed by Newcastle. I was very impressed with them today and they thoroughly deserved there victory.
Yet again today as I have stated before the Everton team where unbalanced. When is Mr Moyes going to learn he has been here for eight years now.He is not setting the team up properly.
Why was Felli played up front he is our best defensive mid?
Why was Osman played wide right he cannot play there?
Why was Heitinga played defensive mid play him at centre back or not at all ?
Why was Bily played out wide again he cannot play there?
The term 'square pegs in round holes' comes to mind with the managers selections this season. Davey please select players in their correct positions we might win a game.
I cannot believe how bad we where today I never believed all the hype at the start of the season but I never thought we would go backwards as a team.
Jon Cox
36   Posted 18/09/2010 at 20:07:20

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Viv Sharma (24) great artticulation mate.

Anyway just finishing the first bottle of red. Now i'm starting to give the second bottle the eye !!

I think the word for it has to be stagnation. It's not about only having one mill to spend. It's about ideas and creativity. So far this season we are lacking both.

The best defense so they say, is attack. And, at this point in time we are just not doing this.

We have some great footballers in our club but as a guy who has always in the past sided with the Moyes phylosophy his thoughts and creativity to utilise these players now looks to be on the wane.

As for another manager I dont think it will happen and I think that we will just have to ride the storm. If I was to think of another manager then it would likely be someone as, say, Slaven Bilich.

For some reason this guy has got an evil streak within him. You know, like when you are 2-0 up and he turns into some sadistic monster and you end up winning 5-0.

Thats what I want. What I dont want is to see the stagnation that we are witnessing at this present moment.

Kunal Desai
37   Posted 18/09/2010 at 20:59:15

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Even if we do start to turn our season around come Nov/Dec isn't it all a bit too late. All we will be doing is playing catch up and eventually finishing 8th/9th. An all too familiar pattern just like the last one.
It was absolutely crucial that the players were prepared for the start of the season to hit the ground running and Bill Kenwright, David Moyes and EFC have yet again failed to deliver!
Des Farren
38   Posted 18/09/2010 at 21:08:58

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Post removed?
Your site I know but..
Dave Lynch
39   Posted 18/09/2010 at 21:18:53

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It's not that Moyes doesn't have a plan B. He doesn't have a fucking plan A.
Rob Hollis
40   Posted 18/09/2010 at 21:18:44

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Fellaini an excellent defensive midfielder so we will play him out of position. Heitinga exposed against Man U in that position so lets play hime there again. Hibbert is having a good game so lets ignore the real problem in front of him and take him off. Arteta can play on the right so lets keep him in the centre where we have other options.

No balance and no fucking idea. Repeats the same mistakes time and time again. Moyes is so inept tactically we will never win a thing. I hope he becomes Manager of somebody else quickly. I was slated a couple of years ago for suggesting Chris Coleman because he likes to attack. Well he may not have been ideal but for god's sake ? enough is enough.
Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
41   Posted 18/09/2010 at 21:38:55

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Des, you claimed to be quoting someone's words but it was not from this thread, and you didn't indicate where. Plus, if the post was anything more than just attempted point-scoring, let me know and I'll reinstate it.
Ian McDowell
42   Posted 18/09/2010 at 21:45:03

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Today's performance has left me so down, I said to the bloke next to me when we went 1 goal down, "That's it, cos I just can't see us scoring 2." How sad!!

We have played Wolves, Newcastle, Blackburn and Villa; in that time, how many shots have we had on target?? No more than 5 would be my guess.

Des Farren
43   Posted 18/09/2010 at 21:43:13

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The quote was from to-day's match forum thread.

I don't think any Everton player should be the subject of this kind of abuse, no matter his perceived performance.

If the same person, in a later post, criticizes the manager, I think it legitimate to point out his earlier comments on virtually every player, but particularly Osman.

If you deem it to be point scoring well...

Dave Richman
44   Posted 18/09/2010 at 21:54:51

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Well said Dave Lynch.... I've been saying that since the start of the season and been called every name under the sun. And been deleted by a crapload of 'friends' on Facebook.

We've had the 'pleasure' of all the games live so far this season, and the pattern is so fucking familiar. Our team is 'set-up' (for want of a better phrase) to simply not lose - so that can't be described as a plan..... at least not to proper Evertonians. Well, plan or not, it ISN'T FUCKING WORKING MR MOYES!!!!!! Are you the only person in the world that can't or won't see this?!?!?!?!

Christ on a crutch..... why not send out a Charles-Charlie Charles 2-3-5 in the next match...... afraid we might lose or ,at best, not win? Well that ain't fucking happening now, so why not at least lose in style?

Fuck me..... words fail me at the moment. Sometimes, being an Evertonian pisses me right off.
Ivor Keyes
45   Posted 18/09/2010 at 22:01:52

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What's really sad is that our problems are nithing new. We ended off last season in a similar vein, unable to score againste moderate opposition. To my mind we've supposedly got the strongest squad, but the poorest team performances we've had in years. We appear totally clueless when it comes to creating chances. Our players, and manager are too comfortable. We know we can't match the to[p six team sfor funding and performance in the long term, and I think the players are comfortable with that . It's so frustrating to read the players comments of how we must win this or that, but there is no improvement. I can't honestly see where the improvement can come from and unfortunately I can't supplythe answers. It is said that it is a sign of madness if you fail but continue doing the same things. I don;t think I dare watch for the Brentford result.!
Paul Carroll
46   Posted 18/09/2010 at 22:19:18

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DM has been lucky to survive for 8 years without a trophy. How many other managers have done that?
There are distinct signs of staleness and his team selections are becoming stranger each match .
Lets hope Man U continue to struggle and come calling very soon- we might even get some compensation from them!
We can then seek fresh ideas behind what we all agree is basically a strong squad - I would love Peter Reid as manager.
Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
47   Posted 18/09/2010 at 22:19:40

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Des, a couple of points:

1) It's clearly off topic, as this thread is about the manager and not yet another pathetic display by Osman... yea, yea, played out of position by the manager, blah, blah... but even so, it's off-topic.

2) By posting that here, rather than challenging the OP author in the context of the Live Forum, you were trying to do what exactly?

3) Pretty much anything goes in the Live Forum; it all gets deleted. Have you been to the game itself? Have you heard the things people say during the game? And you're going to pull the holier-than-thou gig on here? Sorry, not on my watch.

4) But your real point is that no player should be subject to such abuse. Sorry, but Osman is absolute and utter shite; telling him to "Fuck Off" may be going a bit far, which is another reason why I deleted your post from this thread, but since you want to make such an issue of it, I believe it is a succinct way of conveying the same assessment of yet another atrocious performance by one of Moyes's favourites, whose presence on the field was a prime factor contributing to today's dismal display and dire result.

I'm not sure why you feel the need to call out fellow Evertonians for their responses when the real problems are on the field and in the manager's office.

Henry McDonald
48   Posted 18/09/2010 at 22:51:13

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My first match aint to October against the Kopites and I don't know what to think. But what I do think is the folly of playing the likes of Hibbert and Distin at the back and not putting Heitinga in defence with Jags. Osman just doesn't have the strength to execute a goal these days.

In the past I have defended Moyes to the hilt but I think, after 8½ years, maybe it's time to look elsewhere. Problem is: who wants to replace him? Although I for one would not miss his negative tactics. Very, very worrying and depressing. I hope Moyes at the very last tore strips off them when they got back into the dressing room. Makes you wonder about player commitment.

And I don't think it's wrong to speak your mind about players and manager. I once nearly got battered for booing a player while standing in the Upper Gwladys many years ago. We are entitled to your opinions as ordinary people helping to pay the wages of millionaire footballers who can't be bothered. Shame on them!

Scott Edwards
49   Posted 18/09/2010 at 22:53:09

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I can?t understand why we?re not playing our best players in their best positions. Fellaini can be effective pushing forward at times, but playing him as a support striker is idiotic when his best position is blatantly the holding midfielder. Heitinger?s best position is centre back but he is playing in Fellaini?s position to accommodate Distin. Coleman is benched then brought on at half-time in replacement of Hibbert who had barely put a foot wrong. Again this was to accommodate Osman who is weak, slow and largely ineffective in a wide position. The substitution should have been a straight one of Coleman for Osman, man for man and position for position.

I also felt a little sorry for Beckford who had made some decent runs that were never seen, and we obviously don?t play to his strengths. However, Yakubu gives us more options, has greater experience and is a proven goal scorer in the PL so play him from the start and give Beckford a chance from the bench when the game stretches later on.

Our painstakingly slow build-up play, lack of pace throughout the team, and limited striking options only compounds the need to play the best player we have for each and every position. C?mon, Mr Moyes, every fan in the ground could see this today so why can?t you?

Dermot Ryan
50   Posted 18/09/2010 at 22:44:44

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Steve Higham (35): Nail on head.

I hate to harp on about this, but I was pleased with the timing of the substitutions and the tenor of them. I wish he had yanked Osman off and put Coleman in right-mid. We are so truly fucked in that position, it might just work.

I'm worried that DM will draw all the wrong lessons from this. Beckford is failing because of service and because he's isolated; Bily is failing because he is played out of position. In other words, they've been set up to fail. I imagine DM will be more reluctant than ever to play either of them. I wouldn't be surprised if Bily's played his last game in a blue shirt. And, sadly, I imagine there would be a number of Evertonians happy with that. Can't help thinking another manager would mould him better.
Paul Carroll
51   Posted 18/09/2010 at 22:39:02

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Given the long standing injury-prone nature (and inconsistent form) of all our strikers why on earth did we give Vaughan to Palace? We were in the same position last season playing midfielders as strikers.
If Billy isn't a winger, why isn't he played as a striker? At least he can score from outside the box, with a decent career record of 45 goals in 218 games. However he does generally play as a left winger for Russia so perhaps we could try playing him in his best position!
We could then play Piennar and Coleman together on the right, which looks an exciting prospect.
Alun Willis
52   Posted 18/09/2010 at 22:54:04

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Agree with you Scott (49) Also like o add that the difference between today and last Saturday where we went toe to toe with Man U? The obvious one is the absence of Little Timmy C.
Alan Kirwin
53   Posted 18/09/2010 at 22:54:21

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Looks like another season well & truly wasted. Shocking start to the season AGAIN. Players out of position AGAIN. Not offensive enough AGAIN.

Many/most will want Moyes to go. OK, don't necessarily disagree, just as I wanted him to be sacked over his contract stand off and had a go for many reasons over past 5 years.Perhaps we are now at the bridge too far point. Dropping 13 points against Blackburn, Wolves, Newcastle and Villa is rubbish.

So, what's the plan? Who should replace him? And please, don't make me laugh by saying MON. He's not good enough & needs money we don't have.

Gus Hiddink likes us. He'd be my number 1. But...Consider who has outperformed Moyes over the past 7 or 8 years as a whole, it's a short list boys and nobody on it would want to move. So now what? Who will get us into teh top 4, challenging for the title, playing like Barcelona and with little or no money to spend?

Or haven't you thought that far?

Des Farren
54   Posted 18/09/2010 at 22:34:47

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1) The thread is about the manager.
I didn't comment on Osman's display ? good, bad or blah blah. I simply pointed out the contradiction.
2) You are seriously suggesting that I raise this disagreement during the game?
3) There is a difference in what people say while at the game and posting on a forum. Holier than thou? Spin?
4) So your point is that any player is fair game for any type of abuse but particularly Osman who in your opinion is absolute and utter shite. I am not holier than anyone but do recoil from that type of diatribe.

As for your final spin, surely I am entitled to criticize anyone who blames players and in the next breath posts an article on why the manager is at fault. But blaming someone for "calling out fellow Evertonians" is always a winner.

Mark Hill
55   Posted 18/09/2010 at 23:35:34

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We are only 5 games in i think all of this is a little premature, we have in the most part played ok this season. Yes we were very poor today, and we don't seem to have a striker that a) is fit enough to play 90mins, b) hasn't fallen out with the manager or c) is good enough, the fact he plays Osman a lot is incidental, the bigger picture is up front, if we had a striker playing who could have put chances away in previous games we would be comfortably mid table at least now. The problem isn't all the at the managers door. We have at times played some good stuff, but he is limited with what squad he has, and has for the most part during the tenure had to work with a very small squad. There simply isn't the money there for Everton to be any better than we are. Yes i know there is issue about playing players out of position. But for the most part i think for what it's worth, the problem with Everton isn't the manager, and just who would you rather have exactly?
Jimmy Hacking
56   Posted 18/09/2010 at 23:38:42

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What frustrates me about the situation we are in is that if we start playing well in a couple of months Moyes will be media darling again and probably win another sodding LMA award in may, and then I'll start getting myself all excited again over 2011/12. and then we'll lose our first game of the season 6-1 at home to QPR.
Jon Cox
57   Posted 18/09/2010 at 23:19:35

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Alan (53) Stevan B, He's an evil mother fucker and he dont take prisoners. This is the manager I want to see our club has.

Moyes has had is chance, years and years, but now it's time for some guy who can make our team into a conglomeration of Wimbleton and arsenal a reality. I think Bilich deserves that chance.

Remember the croats against E ngland. Sorry but there is no one else.

I loved DM but it's now stagnent and he doesn't seem to have the cognos to win football matches.

Davey I loved you to death, but your time is gone.

Ash Passmore
58   Posted 19/09/2010 at 00:22:54

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My real fear is that after a number of years of the same old tactics and no real change in quality of the team that opposition managers have sussed us out and know exactly how to beat us or at least subdue us so that we can't be as effective as we have been. It has been known for years that DM hasn't got much of a plan B let alone anything else. Persisting at banging your head against the wall just gets a headache, and will rarely result in putting your head through it.
Jon Cox
59   Posted 19/09/2010 at 00:10:31

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Mark Hill, so your quite happy to be near the bottom of the league. Well i'm not !! I'm really angry as is a lot of Evertonians.

We are not getting an awful lot of the school of science. It's not about waiting for about 10 years, it's because we've waited ten years, and nothing has hapened.

I think it's about time we had something to cheer about, like about now.

Dont you think.....
David Hallwood
60   Posted 19/09/2010 at 01:02:42

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Went to the game today and I thought Beckford was making some really good moves and no one was giving him the ball, but they certainly aren't playing to his strengths. But agree with everyone on the site, playing Fellani as an attacking mid Osman on the wing and Jonny H as the holding mid, is madness
Dennis Stevens
61   Posted 19/09/2010 at 01:53:26

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I think the fear of change argument in defence of Moyes is the weakest of all, although I suppose some people will always feel that way, I recall some people making similar comments when Smith was manager.
Lee Kidd
62   Posted 19/09/2010 at 07:09:26

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Des, no idea what you posted, but it seems to be something about shouting "Fuck off Osman" on the live forum. Too right I did. I'm pretty sure I wasn't the only one. So I'm passionate during a game and write an article afterwards - which also criticises Osman. I'm no hypocrite; the only difference here is I've had time to put my thoughts down on paper as it were.

Also, I blame Moyes, but I also blame the players. I'm pretty sure in this article I call Osman "atrocious".

Maybe read the thing?
Lee Kidd
63   Posted 19/09/2010 at 07:13:46

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Actually, IIRC, the quote regarding Osman was "fuck off Osman you fucking something or other". Along those lines anyway. Use it for point scoring as you wish! As Michael said, if you've been a match you hear reasonable men and women say similar things.
Lee Kidd
64   Posted 19/09/2010 at 07:15:59

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And lastly, maybe you conveniently left out the part in the live forum were I said "Moyes has the tactical nous of a wooden spoon". Or maybe you didn't see that part ;)
Neil Steele
65   Posted 19/09/2010 at 08:52:09

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Great to finally see some head's coming out of the sand. Mark Hughes is the man to lead this club forward. He is only on a 2 year deal at Fulham, he has worked to a budget to tremendous effect at Blackburn Rovers, and best of all, he sets his teams up to go out and play 'proper' football, to attack, and to WIN games, as opposed to "keep it tight and hope we nick one".

Moyes is well past his sell-by date and is the most overrated manager this club will ever have.

The only thing worse than his dour style is his arrogance.

Perfect Christmas present for me would be Moyes down the road and Kenwright on the phone to Fulham about getting Hughes out of his contract.

Would be the best signing we have made in years.
Craig Taylor
66   Posted 18/09/2010 at 22:41:08

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I always stick up for Moyes and when I get to this stage (wondering if he has gone far enough) he normally turns it around.

But anyway, there is no one out there who is free and would except the shit finances that Moyes has at his disposal.

O'neill is the best free agent out there, maybe even Sven (please no) but they wouldn't touch us with a barge pole.
Our best bet would be someone from a lower division, but that would be taking a giant leap backwards.
Neil Steele
67   Posted 19/09/2010 at 09:21:18

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Craig, what is wrong with Mark Hughes??
Andy Riley
68   Posted 19/09/2010 at 09:40:20

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This is now a difficult one. I think probably David Moyes has taken us as far as he can but then I remember Charlton fans expressing similar things about Alan Curbishley. They got their wish and look what happened to them......

To me it's both a results and an entertainment thing. Under Moyes I don't think I've ever been entertained really but in the present climate I've been prepared to overlook that as generally the results have been reasonable when all things are considered. Consistent top eight finishes prove that.

I now think that a David Moyes has probably transformed the club in terms of the overall quality of the playing staff but another coach/manager could certainly get more out of the current ones and play more entertaining football. How about Roy Keane?

Mark Hill
69   Posted 19/09/2010 at 09:52:24

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Jon Cox (59) clearly I am not happy to be at the bottom, far from it, but I think we need a dose of reality here... a solitary cup final (to which I went) isn't perrhaps what we want, but look where we have come from. We were fucked before Moyes turned up. The money situation is well documented, and for that reason, and that reason alone, we are not going to get much better...

And like I said, who would you have that is available..? Or if paying Moyes off, which would be a failry large sum, the probability is we would have to then pay for someone else to come in, he would then want money (which we don't have), we would be in just a similar position. I just think that after 5 games, which haven't all been dire, we just need to see the bigger picture. It doesn't make good reading now I know....

Neil Steele
70   Posted 19/09/2010 at 09:56:32

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So we are Charlton Andy? Not having a go, but please don't start with that. If I have to read one more 'cautionary tale' about Charlton, or Leeds, or a justification for this dour prick,I think i'll self harm.

Keane is another good shout to be fair.

Above all else, what we need is a WINNER. Moyes has never won a thing of note in his life, his career was third rate,and his managerial style is third rate. He's a loser, and he sets his teams up in his image. Negative, dour,

Hughes, Keane...whoever...let's just get this idiot out of our club.

No money for signings but we can afford to pay this joker 60k a week...yeah, no wonder he'sstill laughing his way through interviews and thinks it's all a big joke having 2 points from 15. He's a complete and utter disgrace.
Neil Steele
71   Posted 19/09/2010 at 09:59:51

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Mark Hill, what a load of tripe. Why do people re-write history to suit, and always use the worst negatices to build Moyes up into something he isn't??

He has been in charge for EIGHT years and spent good money in assembling HIS team. Why do people keep harping back to the past as a defence??

Let me put it another way. In 8 years, we have won fuck all and play horrendously negative football.

6 years before David Moyes arrived...we won a trophy.

So tell me, why is 'the past' something to fear??
Andy Riley
72   Posted 19/09/2010 at 10:03:21

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It is a thin line between success and failure if we just focus on results. Grinding out 1-0 victories with awful defensive football got us to 4th place in 2005 and everyone praised Moyes. What has changed is that we are now grinding out 1-0 defeats with awful football and if this isn't addressed quickly the fans will not turn up and we will be relegated. Overall I think the taxi certainly needs to be ready on the rank....
Tony Dove
73   Posted 19/09/2010 at 10:54:47

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If we get rid of Osman and Moyes [which gets my vote] at least the usual suspects will have to find something else to write about.
Craig Taylor
74   Posted 19/09/2010 at 13:17:09

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Neill Steele 67: Mark Hughes is not available. He is the Fulham manager.
Otherwise I wouldn't turn my nose up.

Martin Jol is a name mentioned and I have to say I think he would be a brilliant manager. Unfortunately isn't available.
Neil Steele
75   Posted 19/09/2010 at 15:58:32

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Craig, he has only signed a 2 year deal at Fulham, that makes him available in my book. He would jump at the chance to come here, jump at it.

If you are narrowing down 'available' to being unemployed, then, yes...I suppose it is easy to forever say "there's nobody else".

Thankfully, that isn't how it is.

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