Skip to Main Content
Members:   Log In Sign Up
FAN ARTICLES

Moving on...

By Peter Carpenter :  19/09/2010 :  Comments (27) :
Is this the end of the road for Moyes? Has his ginger bonce hit the glass ceiling? I hate to say it because I like him, admire the things he?s done on limited resources, and appreciate the honesty in interviews that you don?t get from Wenger, Benitez, Ferguson etc. But he looks increasingly like a man who has been in a job too long.

No imagination, no spark, no new ideas and a team that is predictable and easy to neutralize. Decisions start to look all wrong. Heitinga in midfield, Fellaini as a striker, Osman on the right, retaining Distin. Basic flaws in the team still not put right, no pace on the right, poor distribution from the back, no regular goalscorer. (What does he do to goalscorers? They all stop scoring at Goodison: Johnson, Beattie, Yak...) Everyone in the ground can see it apart from him.

And what about the much-admired team spirit? Look at the players after every Man Utd goal last week, lots of pointing, head-shaking and shrugging, no-one encouraging or motivating. Yesterday, when Harper got injured, Heitinga seemed to be passing a message from Moyes to Fellaini urging him further forward. The response was shrugging, arm waving, head shaking and lots of verbal. Heitinga himself looks surly, petulant and disinterested. It doesn?t look like good team spirit to me, despite the late goals v Man Utd.

Is he getting the best out of what we think is the best squad we?ve had for ages? What is Cahill?s role now? Unarmed combat with the opposition centre-half rather than a quick passing midfielder who gets forward with late runs and scores. Although he has generally brought good players to the club and improved them, Moyes seems to lose faith in some very quickly: Bily, Beckford (taking him off at half time can?t have done him any good, even if he was struggling)... Vaughan.

He has been prepared to throw young players in but rarely gives them an extended run. Vaughan again, scored a couple around Christmas last year but was out again soon after. With no other strikers fit that was surely the time to stick with him for 10-12 games to find out once and for all whether or not he has what it takes at the top level.

Moyes is basically a cautious manager and he can?t shake that off. Even though we have played good football at times, with wins against Chelsea, Man U and City last season, he seems to revert to caution and the long ball all too easily with the team sitting deep and few players prepared to risk anything. Sporting Lisbon away last season, what was the plan? Sit back and wait and see rather than go and go out, take a risk and make something happen.

Why the reluctance to ever play two strikers? Why do we always have to bring all 10 players back to defend corners? The play is predictable, square, across and back, until we can play Pienaar and Baines in. Few players ever make runs forward into unfamiliar areas. No one seems to want to take a risk.

I wonder what his personal ambitions are? Does he want to make it to the top or is he happy battling for 5th to 8th every year? Has the struggle against the greater resources of other teams just worn him down? Maybe he should follow Steve McLaren?s example and go abroad, learn something new and refresh himself. I think the players are good enough to go up a step but I don?t think he is and the likes of Pienaar, Rodwell, Heitinga, Arteta won?t hang around for 5th to 8th place finishes for long.

If we fail because the players prove to be not good enough for the next level, I can take that; but if it?s because the manager lacked the ambition and imagination to try ? then that will be a terrible waste of an opportunity.

I don?t like saying it but I think he?s gone as far as he can and a new face would get more from these players. Someone in the mould of Guus Hiddink: open-minded, adventurous, experienced in different leagues, and with a few creative ideas.

Reader Comments

Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer


Toffee Jon
1   Posted 02/08/2010 at 22:10:34

Report abuse

LONDON ? A Chinese businessman with a minority stake in the Cleveland Cavaliers has offered to buy Liverpool's $374 million debt from a British bank in an attempt to end Tom Hicks and George Gillett Jr.'s control of the English Premier League club.

So what do we have to do? Liverpool have had several offers this week alone!!!!.

Bill if you ever read this LISTEN! you cannot sell the club and keep total control, i know you love the club but so do we and we deserve better. We have no money AGAIN.we need a billionaire because that's the market place we are in.

The perfect investor does not exist just the super rich who want to own a football club, hopefully we can get somebody like randy learner from Aston Villa but at this moment in time we just need to stay in touch or go backwards.

Kunal Desai
2   Posted 19/09/2010 at 17:55:18

Report abuse

The biggest mistake Moyes made during the summer was not getting in an adequate striker and I don't mean Jermaine Beckford. Saha's goals helped up for two thirds of last season and now that he's crocked and looks disinterested we're fucked! This was a priority over summer and wasn't addressed. As the money isn't there he should have sold to buy.
I believe this will be Moyes last season and maybe the last season for one two or three of our bigger name players as well. Then Billy Boy will really start feeling the heat from all quarters!!
Brian Noble
3   Posted 19/09/2010 at 18:16:50

Report abuse

Sad to say,the sale of the Club by Kenwright would not,in itself,solve all the problems of team selection,tactics,inspiration this writer highlights.Only the engagement of a more enlightened manager will bring about a more imaginative approach on the field.
John Wright
4   Posted 19/09/2010 at 18:14:15

Report abuse

Simple answer to anyone suggesting that Moyes should go ... Who would you repace him with? By the way Peter if you believe Hiddink would come you are totally deluded. If nothing else the least David Moyes deserves is loyalty and time to sort it. How ridiculous to suggest Peter that he would be happy to settle for 5th -8th have you never payed competitive sport? Do you really believe anyone least of all Moyes is happy at the moment? I dont post on here too frequently I am a 52 year Blue who has been through good and bad. Without David Moyes there is no future for us. Without David Moyes we would have had no future. Look at Portsmouth . . . That could have been us, and with supporters like Peter still could be.
Ryan Holroyd
5   Posted 19/09/2010 at 18:54:45

Report abuse

'Without David Moyes there is no future for us. Without David Moyes we would have had no future'.

Pathetic man. This is what Kenwright and Moyes have reduced people to.

Anyone would think Moyes is Mourinho or Ferguson the way some of our fans go on. It's a joke. We will win NOTHING with Moyes in charge.

Kenwright and Moyes OUT.
Dennis Stevens
6   Posted 19/09/2010 at 18:54:48

Report abuse

John you clearly think that had we not employed Moyes we would have been relegated & that would still be on the cards if ever he should leave & you're entitled to that opinion, it's not without merit. However, we won't know as we won't rewind the clock & rerun the last few seasons under another manager. I'm sure Moyes won't be going anywhere in a hurry, but it seems that whilst he's in charge neither will Everton, sadly. One thing no-one can claim Moyes has not had is loyalty & time. It's nonsense to suggest that Moyes is irreplaceable, he is a good manager but certainly hasn't proven himself to be a great manager.
Marc Pantling
7   Posted 19/09/2010 at 19:09:30

Report abuse

Glen Hoddle, Glen Hoddle, Glen Hoddle... I know he's slightly mental but he is a great manager.
Peter Carpenter
8   Posted 19/09/2010 at 19:14:50

Report abuse

Hang on John, I said 'someone in the mould of Guus Hiddink' meaning someone with experience of more than just the Premier League. No, I don't think Hiddink would ever consider Everton. As for being happy with 5th to 8th place, Moyes himself has often said we can't compete with the clubs with money. Perhaps in his head he doesn't really believe we can threaten them.
My point is I think he has done as much as he can at Everton, and I appreciate what he has done, but I think he needs a new challenge and Everton need fresh ideas. Everyone gets stale in a job eventually.
David Hallwood
9   Posted 19/09/2010 at 20:35:40

Report abuse

I'm not here to defend Moyes, but instant remedies aren't all they're cracked up to be. The Rs have just changed theirs and I defy anyone to spot the difference between FSW & Woy, and look they are. In fact this might be the first relegation dogfight derby in living memory.

Where do we go from here? who knows but sadly we've been here before, two seasons ago it wasn't until the end of Nov, til we got going; ditto last season, in fact mark it in your diary- November 25th, because that was the date we got beat by Wigan at the JJB stadium, with a piss poor performance on a freezing night in the 08/09 season and I had the pleasure to watch that turgid pile a? shite. And then bugger me didn?t we do exactly the same on the same day last year at Hull, with a 1st half performance that was probably one of the worst displays in recent years, if you remember we shipped 3 goals against a struggling Hull side.
The Moyes out went into overdrive both times, and eventually went away we had reasonable seasons.

However I think this time may be different because of expectation levels, so maybe he does need a change of scenery, but unless we get Derren Brown who can magic £50 notes from his back pocket, it?s going to be same old, same old.
Brian Waring
10   Posted 19/09/2010 at 21:48:44

Report abuse

John, don't you think 8½ years has showed loyalty?
John Daley
11   Posted 19/09/2010 at 19:46:35

Report abuse

"Simple answer to anyone suggesting Moyes should go...Who would you replace him with?"

That's not an answer though is it? It's just the rote response of those people overly fearful of a future without the prematurely anointed 'Moyesiah'. To claim without Moyes "there is no future for us" is both ludicrous and laughable. Yes, on the whole, he's done a good job at the club. Good, but by no means great. He admittedly steadied the ship after the woeful reign of Walter Smith, removed the regular spectre of relegation and plucked a few bargains out of the air, but to claim his record at the helm makes him irreplaceable is, frankly, insane.

How long can you carry on being grateful for small mercies? For all the positive aspects of his reign there are an equal amount of (embarrassing) negatives. Lowest points total in living memory, least goals scored in a season, worst start to a season in 15 years, record defeat in European competition, an absolutely pathetic derby record, only two decent cup runs in 9 years etc.

A lot of Evertonians at the moment are like emasculated employees stuck in a dead end job, with no prospects of promotion and all their hopes and aspirations long since trampled underfoot. They're unhappy and unfulfilled but would never dare leave because they're too fearful of not finding anything else."Things could always be worse", they tell themselves as life passes them by...
Sean Patton
12   Posted 19/09/2010 at 22:30:41

Report abuse

Steve McLaren

That is who, I bet he would love to come back to England, realistically he is not going to get a top 4 job back here and Everton would be the ideal team for him to re-build his reputation in England.

He has won trophies including one in this country he has a good record of bringing through youth at Middlesbrough plus we have his former No2 already at the club in Round.

I don't know what money he is paid at Wolfsburg but would be surprised if it exceeded the rumoured 65k a week that Moyes gets.
John Wright
13   Posted 20/09/2010 at 07:36:24

Report abuse

So just the one suggestion...Steve McLaren. Why would he, or indeed anyone else, be attracted to a club with no money to spend and by all accounts reading the points above, a squad of players to replace? Yes I would be fearful of a future without Moyes at the moment fearful as to what we would get in his place.I do take your point Peter that people do get stale in the same job I just dont agree that we have reached that point with Moyes.
Richard Reeves
14   Posted 20/09/2010 at 12:59:13

Report abuse

Don't like to admit it but Moyes's time is up. This year was a chance to break the shackles of cautiousness and really go for it with the best squad weve had in a long time but same old same old. I'm not going to say we've got no chance of getting this manager or that manager as none of us really know who would come here but I know who I want and don't want... Martin Jol ? YES!.... Martin O'Neill-NO FUCKING WAY!..

Martin Joll has unfinished business in the Prem, he was an attack-minded manager in this league, got Spurs playing some exciting football and was eventually treated like shit when the chairman of Spurs decided to pick the players for transfers. I think his footballing philosophy would suit our club and he is a likeable character that the fans will take to.

Martin O'Neill might win us a League Cup or FA Cup but that's all if we're lucky. Passionate, battling teams, one up front (usually a big strong tactically naive striker), long ball (in the air more than on the ground), money wasted on a lot of average players and when theres no money to spend, which will happen from day one under the obsessive fat liar, then how long will he last? No, thankyou!

Chris Ashton
15   Posted 20/09/2010 at 13:22:08

Report abuse

For all the Get Moyes Out brigade that seems to be growing by the day, I ask one question, what do you expect?

Right first off we have no money. Our transfer budget came from a bosman being sold on 6 months earlier, and that went on 2 free players and 2 foreign lower division players. So all the people expecting great things, the table doesn't lie, and all the teams in the league have spent more than us and therefore have had a better start, even if it is from one spark in one game. I mean there is only 2 teams that have not won yet, we are one of them.
Michael Kenrick
16   Posted 20/09/2010 at 13:55:35

Report abuse

Chris, so many of us expect so much better from this team of players Moyes has assembled. You know, I think Moyes even expects more from them and from himself.

Do you seriously expect nothing more than 19th place and no wins yet from your Everton?

Mark Murphy
17   Posted 20/09/2010 at 14:21:01

Report abuse

David Jones???
Lee Smith
18   Posted 20/09/2010 at 14:05:23

Report abuse

Marc #7 - "Glen Hoddle... I know he's slightly mental but he is a great manager". Is that the politically correct term? Funny as fuck though :)
Chris Ashton
19   Posted 20/09/2010 at 17:17:32

Report abuse

Michael, I do expect a lot more from Everton, sure, but I'm not going to be all up in arms just because we have not started as well as we expected. It has been said here before that If this was any other club then we would be a relegation contender. I mean no money to spend, increasing contracts beyond our means just to keep players, still meant to be a small squad.

If you step away from the club you see it for what it is. That may be an excuse for some people to accuse the board and all that of running the club into the ground. The sad fact is we are not in the same league as Spurs or Villas or even the Red Shite.

Maybe, just maybe, the problem is Moyes cannot take us any further, but no-one else can either. Instead of sacking, maybe we should accept right now what we have, rather than expect miracles from a manager put in the same boat.

Brian Waring
20   Posted 20/09/2010 at 18:32:59

Report abuse

Chris, we have been told numerous times on here that we have one of the best squads in the prem, and have one of the best midfields in the prem. If that is to be believed, shouldn't we be expecting a lot more this season?

Are we now saying that because Birmingham have spent more than us, we have no right to expect to be above them? Also, I don't understand your point about the teams who have spent money, have had the better start, what has money got to do with them having a better start than us?

At the end of the day,aren't we supposed to be better than the Villa's, Bolton's, Fulham's, Sunderland's etc?
Jon Cox
21   Posted 20/09/2010 at 19:00:06

Report abuse

Does anyone remember a few years ago Manure had two guys up top who scored megs amounts of goals and their chemistry on the pitch, in attack was legendary?

Guys I give you Dwyte York and Andy Cole. What a combination. Some of the CL games I saw these guys play I remember I was just awestruck bt the way they seamed to always know what the other was thinking. And it worked.

We have two players that I think, that with the right coaching and fine tuning could achieve this.

Beckford and Vaughan. These two in my humble opinion should have been brought together for pre-season and also worked on at the training ground.

It's not to late. Imagine Donovan on the right flank with a great defender (YES HIBBERT) behind him. Baines and Pienaar on the left and Becks/ Vaughan in attack.

Dustbin on the bench, etc etc at the back. If not Donovan then Coleman attacking wide right. You can fill in the rest of the positions. But whatever argument you may have it's got to be a more creative line up that we currently have, with the players we have. I dont want to slag Moyes off and neither do most of TW but there comes a time when we need to get our thoughts and opinions across to Goodison Park and know that they have been heard. Just because we dont get paid 65k a week doesn't mean to say that we dont know anything about A/ football and B/ OUR TEAM.


COYB
Shaun Kennedy
22   Posted 20/09/2010 at 19:51:14

Report abuse

I'm not being funny or nothing but I've just read the first line of this article and stopped. Is he having a laugh? You have to give Moyes a bit more credit. were 5 games into the season and he's saying its time he moved on? Bloody hell... who else would we get in that would do a job he has done for us? Where's the commitment?
Brian Waring
23   Posted 20/09/2010 at 21:17:33

Report abuse

Shaun, he may only be 5 games into the season, but he is 8 years into his tenure with us, and he is still making the same old mistakes.
Dennis Stevens
24   Posted 21/09/2010 at 00:03:21

Report abuse

Shaun, we don't need somebody to come in & repeat what Moyes has done, unless we allow him to take us back to where he found us when Smith left - what we need is somebody who can get the best out of the current squad & take us forward. If that man isn't Moyes then he needs to be replaced : simple as.
Lee Kidd
25   Posted 21/09/2010 at 09:35:32

Report abuse

The "who would we get instead?" counter-argument bores me to tears.
Larry Boner
26   Posted 21/09/2010 at 10:22:03

Report abuse

If, if, we dont win tonight and over the next 4 league games, Fulham, Birmingham, Liverpool and Spurs, dont pick up at least 5 points, then I can see Mr Moyes offering to resign, with Mr Kenwright begging him to stay. I don't think Mr Moyes would walk, but if he did (and stranger things have happened) then I think it would be a certainty that Mr Kenwright would look no further than Mr Phil Neville as the next coach of Everton.

If you believe that this idea is over the top, then look no further than across the park at Liverpool parting company with Mr Benitez, a proven winner, with 2 CL Finals to his name, with one of them victorious.

Or Martin ONiell played in Euro Cup final for Forest, won 2 League Cups and appeared in another final, with Leicester City, etc, etc, but now out of work, resigned on a matter of principle.

Peter Carpenter
27   Posted 21/09/2010 at 16:17:16

Report abuse

Shaun, I do give him credit for all he's done over 8 years, we have been lucky to have him, but I don't think he is capable of taking the next step up, I wish he was. So do we just sit back and accept more of the same, in which case the better players will leave, or do we aim higher? And it's not the evidence of the last 5 games either, it's the last 2 years.

Add Your Comments

In order to post a comment to Fan Articles, you need to be logged in as a registered user of the site.

Log in now

Or Sign up as a ToffeeWeb Member — it's free, takes just a few minutes and will allow you to post your comments on articles and MailBag submissions across the site.



© ToffeeWeb
Subscribe to The Athletic, Get 40% off


Bet on Everton and get a deposit bonus with bet365 at TheFreeBetGuide.com


Menu
OK

We use cookies to enhance your experience on ToffeeWeb and to enable certain features. By using the website you are consenting to our use of cookies in accordance with our cookie policy.