On the Brink

Mr Moyes...

This is one humiliation too far. Pack your bags and sod off.

I know this post is inevitable but, let's face it, Moyes has finally lost the plot and lost the dressing room. How we couldn't beat a League One team is beyond me. To be honest, even if we had won, it would have just papered over the cracks of what I can honestly say is a dismal start to the season.

I personally feel his mind-boggling tactic of 4-5-1 "let's not lose first" is becoming increasingly predictable and non-productive. He seems to not have a clue what his best team is even though he's been here for 8½ years.

I'm unsure if he can't seem to recognise key positions that need filling or... well I don't know. It reminds me of the Howard Kendall situation in the 80s except I don't see an FA Cup win and league title ahead.

Seriously, Moyes, you've turned us from a joke to a respectable team back to a joke again. Time to go.

"Newcastle United are a small club with ambitions that outstretch their abilities. Yes, their team features some solid, experienced players but these players have been playing against Championship opposition for a year where they were, by rights, superior. Never in million years should they have been able to come to the ground of a side supposedly pushing for the Top Four and completely boss the game. Yet this was what happened, and it was all down to Moyes's carelessness and lack of initiative."

.. And people call us deluded! Pushing top 4? - Thats Hillarious.

I really do hope you sack moyles. It'll be the biggest mistake you'll make and those flirtations with relegation will soon become reality. Then you and your antiquated ground can be in the division that matches your stature.

Alright lads,I'm a Toon fan that was at the match.I had a cracking time not obviously just the match but pre and post match enjoying a few pints with Evertonians,good craic.
There's a couple of things in your article I must take issue with though mate,ambitions that outstrech our ability...our only ambition is to survive which I think we will.Man Utd apart we have been the better team in every game this season(yes even Blackpool) only Chelsea and Arsenal have had more shots on target than us.So is survival beyond our ability,I don't think so.Don't believe everything you read in the press about us being deluded,most of us are realistic and always have been.We have a few idiots like everyone.
Small club(bit of bitterness from you there I think mate)..unsuccessful club since '69 yes but trophys alone don't make a big club otherwise Pompey are bigger than Arsenal having won one more recently.
There are and were before the season started probably 6 safe clubs,any of the rest could feasibly be involved in a relegation battle,I'm afraid that includes you.
Having said that I'm sure you'll be ok so good luck for the rest of the season......just one more thing reading some of the posts on your site over the last few days I think you have far more many deluded fans than us.Again good luck and I'll be back there next year as a prem fan.

I've been an outspoken defender of David Moyes for a while now however I must confess that I too am at my wits end with his approach to formation and tactics. His preference so far this season does appear to reflect a stubborn presbyterian attitude lacking in guile or flair. Even in times gone by when we have had a succesion of poor results we have still in the main showed some spirit. We don't even appear to have much of that presently. Like a lot of us I harboured great hopes for this season though I was concerned with the not only the pre season performance and the team Moyes put out against Wolfsburg who were frankly the only worthwhile opposition we faced during the break. I do think the vitriol is overdone especially that which is aimed at Osman and Hibbert. I am driven to despair at his refusal to ever go with two up front and the pitiful tactic of putting Fellaini in the hole behind the striker. We mostly play the team that we palyed a couple of years back but with Distin being a poor replacement the lambasted Lescott. Whilst that replacement represented a profit of about £18million what does the team have to show for it? The biggest purchases were Heitinga and Billy. They got 45 minutes between them last night despite it being the perfect opportunity to partner Jonny and Phil. Of the most recent acquisitions onlt Beckford has been given much of a chance and even then he hasn't been given the kind of support he would clearly need especially if he is to make the transition to the Premiership.

I don't know that Moyes has it in him to change, adapt or even learn any longer. I worry that if he loses the dressing room we really are genuine relegation candidates. Whilst I am letting go of a little of this frsustration let me comment on the BK/Moyes link. Now I don't find it easy to warm to BK and I personally believe that we are a long way from knowing the reality behind his relationshiops and the proposed move out of Goodison - that said I think he has done by and large a decent job as chairman and we are (were?) in a lot better shape now than under his predecessor. I don't expect a chairman to be obliged to bankroll a club in the way that some fans seem to but lets get something in perspective here. Moyes splashed out £15m on Fellaini - he's had some decent moments but is there any one of us that would argue he was worth £15m? How much would we get for him in the present market? In addition he has spent something in the region of £24million from the sale of Lescott. What do we have on the pitch to show for £39million of Moyes spending? Lets not blame BK for that.

Lets back off the insults to other clubs supporters. Writing stuff such as accusing Newcastle as being a small club with ideas bove themselves is deserving of the response of being bitter and deluded. They aren't our problem and good luck to them - We would be a lot happier if Everton made the attempt to play flowing attacking football in the way they do.

Paul.

We are playing shite and our manager has gone AWOL.

But some advice; slagging off other clubs when your club is at a low ebb will only make things worse. I mean these toon fans can obviously sense a "slagging off" and aided with the internet they will respond, with gusto.

Stick to the issues of EFC, which are fucking numerous, and vent your anger at our players and manager. Newcastle came to GP, played well and took the points. End of. Labelling them a small club makes you sound bitter.

I fear Trevor (#2) may be correct in the losing the dressing room point.

Are Everton fans serious about sacking Moyes? We were chastised by the Internet fan for sacking Allerdyce and with it came the labels spoon fed to you all by the Fleet Street rags. I think if you sacked Moyes as a result of fan pressure, the Internet fan and Fleet Street would have a field day and earn your club labels that never seem to go away.

I guess Moyes could be defended before as he had had no access to significant transfer funds. He appears to have squandered vast fortunes on average players and he has failed to purchase a decent striker.

I always cringe when our fans get on this "we are considerably bigger than youse" high horse.
We are the biggest fish in only our own pond and its time we stopped acting like koppites!
I wrote in a response to another mail that Toon fans probably wouldnt swap their midfield for ours and they quite understandably think as highly of their team as we do of ours (or did, actually, in my case - right now I fuckin envy them!)
Travelling to Fulham and belittling their "shitty" ground and singing who the fuckinell are yous at Wolves and Villa has always smacked of embarassing small mindedness to me and Mike Gwyer is right, we should focus on our own shortcomings rather than be sore losers when beaten by a better team and manager (on the day).
For me the manager is now the problem and he needs to grow some and make changes to his favoured personell and line up. We have very good players (not top four, but very good) sitting on the bench or playing out of position to accommodate favourites and its costing us big time!
Its time for a change.

3#/4#.... Since when did we become fuckin' "TOONWEB" ?

De Kuip - by all means sack Moyles
( He's that fat boring twat on the radio ), but we talk football on this site, Just proves you lot don't what you're on about !

As to Moyes, I've always felt he'd end up at Newcastle, so to paraphrase your
Talisman/shaman/local raving nutter ..."IF THAT HAPPENS, I'D LOVE IT, JUST LOVE IT"

Davey is going nowhere you ungrateful buggers! Learn the lesson on Big Sam and Bobby Robson with the Toon who had their men out before the leaves began to fall.A blip-merely a blip and you`ll be singing our man`s praises before you tuck into your Easter Eggs-you`ll see!

Richie WIlliamson, you deserved your win on Saturday. We were outplayed, outfought and our crap manager was out-thought. I think on your performance you can aim higher than survival. We'll be the ones fighting relegation.

What I don't get is the defence that Moyes has managed Everton on a shoestring. He's 8th in the spending league. This season he's been beaten by Blackburn, Newcastle and Brentford. He's only managed a draw at home with Wolves. He has out spent all of those clubs.

Okay Moyes has not had a lot to spend but he did raise funds by selling the family silver (Rooney). No other manager at Everton has been able to raise that money from a youth product. The fact is Moyes has spent badly. I don't think he has bought bad players but he has bought the wrong players. Did we need Bily and Heitinga? Could that £14 million have been better spent? Why didn't Moyes admit his mistake and look to sell Bily this summer? I would love to have that Ben Arfa in our side, he'd be perfect for us.

Moyes' 'best ever squad' has no balance and no direction and is just a mish mash of the wrong sorts of players. Moyes should now fall on his sword.

Marc, this is the Internet not some cafe on County Road. You are delightful.

The game unbeliveably went into extra time, something which should have made David Moyes come to his senses and realise Everton needed to finish this game once and for all and place Jermaine Beckford up alongside Yakubu. Did he do this? No. He did exactly what didn't work against Newcastle yet again and substituted a striker for a striker. Jermaine Beckford played up front alone again, you know the rest.

Thank goodness your not the manager Paul-how on earth do you think Yak could play 120 mins of football when he can hardly play 90-wise up !

Peter 12#, The internet you say, no wonder me bacon butty's taking so long !

Peter 12#, The internet you say, no wonder me bacon butty's taking so long !

We played 4-5-1 against a team in the lower half of LEAGUE 1. Enough said, I think!

:-) I think if Cahill had played at the weekend there might have been a different result. Also the absence of Rodwell and the poor form of Arteta and a few others didn't help.

We are currently playing in form and getting some great performances out of a few people who will no doubt disappear later in the season. I imagine you will finish top half and qualify for that European cup with a bit of luck. You are certainly not the only top team struggling for form right now.

Console yourself in the fact that Liverpool, Man Utd, Chelsea and Man City will at some point implode. I really hope that the new FIFA rules put an end to them. One day it might be Arsenal, Everton and Fulham vying for the titles.

Ha, Very good marc. You've have excellently pointed out my mistake. Boy do i look dumb!

Well who knows, if you sack Moyes perhaps our former 'messiah' will come and show your lot how to attack.

He may just save you from relgation.

Now let us pray;

Our King Kev who art on ESPN,hallowed be thy name.Thy SJP come. Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily Shearer, and forgive us our trespasses...etc.

As the song says "Always look on the bright side of life." The fact we got through one round of a cup competition could be viewed as a success as we normally go out in the first under DM.
Before DM arrived this start to the season was the norm so you could say he has turned the club around and the reason you're so angry is that HE has raised your and the clubs expectations.
Some of you conviently forget the blatantly obvious - its all about MONEY these days, this isn't the sixties anymore with a level playing field. Everton can't afford to dine at the top table just like you can't afford a mansion in suburbia or you would be living in one. Unless the finances change a la Citeh, we are only also-rans and will continue to be so for the foreseeable future.

@Robbie Brown and all the others going on about how little money we have/had etc. How do you explain consistenly playing out top players out of position and consistenly being blind to the fact its not working and still refusing to change?

Fellaini is NOT an attacking midfielder and Heitinga is NOT a midfielder full stop.

Anyway I will wait until Fulham at the weekend, where other than once I think we've lost there everytime for the last decade.

I can hardly find the energy to type this, as it merely re-iterates what hundreds of fellow Evertonians are saying in virtually every current thread on here and I'm a devoted supporter - and defender - of David Moyes on here...

But it appears so simple to me:

Get Coleman in at right back, or in the 'troublesome' right wing spot.

Play the Dutch World Cup finalist centre half... at centre half!

Play the defensive midfielder Fellaini, in defensive midfield.

Give whoever plays up front a fellow striker to play alongside.

Stop finding a place for Osman - and wake up to the fact that it's on the bench!

I simply canot understand why he persitsts with a system that is clearly malfunctioning.

We have the players. Play them in the correct positions and drop your teacher's pets.

If you do, we're all right behind you and only the players can be blamed if it doesn't work.

The time is gone for all the talk of what we should and shouldn't do tactics and selection wise. We're now past the point of writing scathing comments on supporter forums and the simple fact is this:

One way or another, David Moyes and his team need to sort out this mess they find themselves in over the next 5 games.
If they don't take 10 points from the next 15 available then the season that promised so much will be effectively over before Christmas.
Should it come to that then the simple fact will be that the manager and the players do not deserve the money that we pay them.

It doesn't matter who they're against in the next games or how they do it, they need to pull things around before they truly alienate the supporters who had so much faith in them before the season began.

No more talk, just fucking do it.

Denis, David & Terry - 18,19,20

Spot on. Could not have
put it better myself.

The media knives are being sharpened for Moyes. He needs to get back to basics and take 3 points on Saturday against a team hardly playing that well themselves.

Denis 19, you're comments are right and I totally agree with you, I believe DM has been tactically inept in some of his decisions.
The point I was making is todays players are mercenarys and go where the most money is so the richer clubs will always get the better players.
Even if DM had money would you trust him to spend it wisely?
Then again everyone bangs on about Martin O'Neill being a great manager and even though he had more money to spend than DM they consistently finished below us for a few seasons.
I think DM has taken the club as far as it can go at present and I'm not sure anyone else could take it further due to the lack of funds.

Our next four games are critical to the club, I cannot believe I am writting this but I am. Well Mr Moyes, you as they say have completely fucked up and not for the first time.

To me he has lost the respect of the players,watch thier body language. He is at last being found out, his tactics have always been wierd but the team spirit band of brothers attitude of the players has always pulled us through.

His rteam selections in the past have been made for him usually caused by injuries or suspensions to our small squad. NOW he has to stop dithering over who to pick ? PICK THE BEST PLAYERS IN THEIR PROPER POSITIONS. We all think we know whta that team would be.

PREDICTION: IF HE DOESN'T GET IT RIGHT AND WE LOSE THE NEXT 3 GAMES HE SHOULD WALK. Phil Neville would be my choice to take over in the short term as long as he doesn't pick himself.

Moyes and his useless assistant have led us to a very dark place, on the pitch, and off it, with the lying, embarrassing joke of Kenwright, joined to him at the hip. We are once again looked upon as over-achievers with no future, and an easy touch.

As the head of 3 generations of season ticket holders, and myself a fan since 57, it is time for me to pack it in, as I can take no more shit football, very poor management, and a chairman who will take us down even further.

So Kenwright, Moyes and Round, join me in my retirement, and fuck off now please, for my kids' sake!!!

The year was 1995 the venue was the university students union bar in Hull. Watching Everton win the FA Cup on a cinema screen, drinks non stop as red stripe was 50p a can and shots were 60p. I was 25 back then.

Fast-forward to September 2010. I am now 41 and we haven?t won anything since that happy drunken day back in 1995. We?ve seen possibly the most negative football the Premier League has ever seen played by two negative dour managers. Over 8 years with Moyes at the helm. Some say he hasn?t had any money, well Yakubu was £11.5 million, The Fro ?15 million, Bily £9.5 million and a 31-year-old CB was £5 million. What are they worth now?

One cup final since 1995, failure in Europe every time we face a team we?ve heard of. And some good thrashings too, Benfica, Sporting Lisbon, Arsenal (more than once), Bolton, Blackburn (yes Bolton & Blackburn), losing to Shrewsbury (the year they were relegated to non league), Oldham and now Brentford. I have lived from my mid-twenties to early 40s without seeing us win anything (not even the League Cup). I don?t expect us to win every game, I just want to be entertained a little, Ian Holloway, Roberto Di Matteo and Owen Coyle can play attack-attack (on their budgets) why can?t we? All we get is defend-defend.

I am sick to death of it now, David ? you ain?t going to change your ways, please do the honourable thing and give someone else a chance. Managers don?t get over 8 years these days without anything to show for it, why should you be any different?

On another thread someone put down Newcastle, why? Look at ourselves first as I?d rather be in Newcastle?s position than ours.

Surely now, after ANOTHER humiliating night in the cup, moeys has got to go. 4-5-1 against a league one side? And a blatant reusal to play two up front? Now I don't rate Osman, never have, but he is constantly our worst player but is never taken off. He was appaling last night and once again stayed on. Then in his wisdom, moyes takes a penalty taker off (yak) in extra time? Anyone who knows me knows this is not a knee jerk reaction, people are slowly beginning to realise how inept the man is, and stubborn with it. We saw Kenwright at Brentford last night, and shouted at his to sack the ginger one! You should have seen the look on his face, you'd have thought I'd just cracked his bird! Surely now he must know that nil satis nisi optimum, is not being foillowed anymore! Time to move on and try and rescue yet another dismal start to the season.

Yet again our beloved EFC have broke my heart. The Manager clueless,the board incompetent,the players dont seem to car. In our humdrum lifes all we have to cling to is the hope that our football team can offer some light at the end of the tunnel (fat chance). Are we cursed, probably.

I have defended the Blues in numerous arguments over the years, we have soul,we are a proper football club, passionate and loyal unlike many others. I have now lost the will to carry on and will be going into hibernation until spring next year when the sun may shine and things will be rosy again (doubt it). Until that time "WHATS THE POINT?", Brentford give me strengh. !!!

De Kuip 17#, Only pulling your leg fella, it's easily done & my emails rarely go off without a typo.

We certainly need someone to show us how to attack as Moyes & Round are as boring as they come.

This has been a truly awful start to the season and, whatever happens from here, we will always be recovering from this dreadful start.  This is becoming something of a habit, recovering, fighting against the odds.

I am no longer happy with this... but, hey ? this appears to be what makes Moyes shine, and what appears to show why he will never be a ´winner´.  Fact is, Moyes ain't going anywhere. We can´t afford to sack him, even if Blue Bill wanted to (which he doesn´t) and, unless things get really messy, he ain't going to resign as it would do his reputation (not to mention his bank balance) no good.

For Moyes, it would be better to have a spirited fightback up the table; for that he will get praised.  Moyes will be seen as the man who lifted the players after a poor start and even got the team in contention for Europe ? he won't be seen as the man who was unprepared to manage a team that is expected to control and win a game.

What I don't get ?  beyond all the talk of training, lack of wide players/forwards, 4-5-1 etc ? is the obvious flaws in the teams he is putting out... Consider these basic errors:

No. 1: tthe main one: Fellaini.  Moyes stated last season he believed him to be one of the best midfielders in the country.  His form last season backed this up.  Yet, for some reason, one I really do not understand, he plays him off the striker. He plays one of the best defensive midfielders (when the team is shipping goals) in the league in an attacking midfield position, because he's tall.  This is ridiculous, and shows Moyes's intention is to play percentage football, even if it is proving not to work.  Stick Fellaini in his position, Everton will play better... FACT!

No 2: Osman on the wing.  I like Ossie, but he is not a winger.  He is a midfielder in the same mould as Arteta, but not as good.  He is a central midfielder, not a winger.  He doesn't have pace, not a great dribbler and is quite weak at crossing.  This may be due to a lack of options, but at least Coleman has pace or Gueye has pace, or Beckford.  They may not be ideal, but Osman is proven failure on the wing, why persist?

No 3:  Heitinga in midfield.  If Fellaini is injured, ok I understand... but, if not, why play him there?  His passing is sub-standard for a midfield player and thus the team is worse off for it.  Stick him in central defence, it seems so obvious, why is Moyes persisting with Distin?  If it's for balance, then drop Heitinga all together.  Something doesn't make sense.

No. 4.  Playing Bily on the wing.  He's not a winger, like Osman isn't a winger. The fact we have a defensive midfielder in Bily's position (when Cahill is not fit) then Moyes ponders "Why ain't we scoring?"  It really makes no sense.

These are fundamental flaws in Moyes's team selection, ones that anyone can see a mile off, yet the man who is paid £65k a week cannot see it... or does and refuses to budge; this is seriously damaging our team.

This is SO frustrating isn't it?

The potential soultions to our 'problems' are so blindingly obvious - and all the players required are fit.

Why can virtually every Evertonian see this - and not David Moyes?

This is worse than Capello's England: shoehorning in players who are woefully out of position (and sometimes playing in each other's preferred places), to accommodate favourites and undroppables.

Your reputation's on the line here Moysie. For goodness' sake pick 11 square pegs in square holes this weekend. And with all due respect to Leon, stop making Osman and Distin the first names on your teamsheet.

If you don't, and we lose again, you are seriously in danger of undoing all you've patiently built over the last eight years and finding yourself with (many) more critics than supporters.

Once you reach that tipping point, despite all the fightbacks to form you've engineered in recent years, I don't think you'll ever recover.

This wasn't supposed to happen this season.

The fact that it is, and you apear to be determinedly oblivious to the state we're in, is very worrying.

Nothing less than a trophy and/or a Europa League place will do this season, of all seasons

Starting on Saturday, if you can't do it with the players you've got, then I doubt you'll ever do it at all.

If one thing came out of the horror show at Brentford i hope it is that the people who have been asking why Coleman is not playing right back for everton have got their answer. The lad is hopeless at defending. In two successive games in the league cup he has been run ragged defensively and if he was to play in that position at premiership level he would be destroyed. Now i think that the kid gas got potential going forward but he is a million miles away from being a top class defender.

Simply:

We've heard different players talk of improvement and kicking on after every single disappointment this season.

Their talk holds no weight at this point, what I'm interested in is when they'll start doing their talking on the pitch.

Great, now we're getting fucking patronised by a bunch of Geordies? Surely this season can't get any worse.

Still, at least they talk more sense than Richard Dodd (who i always imagine talking in the voice of gay George from 'Rainbow' for some reason) who suceeds in sounding more deluded by the day.

JD@34 classic that one LOL.
On another note however, with regard to our illustrious leader - it might be that he's not the Moyesiah just a very naughty boy.

Once again its not only raining its pouring on our parade and a lot of Blues are calling for Moyes's head. After, in my eyes, nearly 9 successful years at the helm, it's been a terrible start with countless tactical and selection errors, and just utter poor management.

Who would be deemed a better option that Everton could get in or prize away from another club?? Would Owen Coyle leave Bolton so soon after taking charge? Is Zola good enough? Is O'Neill what we want or need? Is Eriksson affordable or again what we want and need? Martin Jol?!

I'm not sure getting rid of Moyes would be wise, so who do Evertonians  who do think should be brought in if Moyes did walk, because we all know he'll never be sacked!! 

John 34#, That's why he's always sticking up for "Bungle" in the directors box & "Zippy" in the dugout.

I wonder if the techno's at Toffeeweb Towers could put up a "George" graphic every time he posts, at least then we'd have something to chear us all up.

John 34#, That's why he's always sticking up for "Bungle" in the directors box & "Zippy" in the dugout.

I wonder if the techno's at Toffeeweb Towers could put up a "George" graphic every time he posts, at least then we'd have something to chear us all up.