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History catches up with Moyes

By Jonathan Tasker :  27/09/2010 :  Comments (32) :
1968: that's when I started to support Everton. My mother reckoned that it was the local Scouts Leader, Paul King that was to blame for me supporting Everton. Thanks Paul! I remember playing in the street when we won the FA Cup against Sheffield Wednesday in 1966. My father had just come out of hospital after a gall bladder operation and I remember being pleased that we had won but I hadn't watched any of the game...

By 1968, I was properly into it and I cried when Jeff Astle RIP scored that goal for West Brom against us in the FA Cup Final. I loved those amber and blue kits. In those days, there were quaint customs such as, in the FA Cup, when there was a colour clash, it was the home team that changed their kit!

1970: we won the league and I had a superb colour signed photo of the Championship winning team; it had been autographed by John Hurst ? I cannot remember how or why but it just was. I had been to my first match at Goodison a few years earlier and we beat Nottingham Forest 1-0; the great Joe Royle scored the goal. There was a neat synchroncity to this as they had beaten us 1-0 on the day I was born, at the City Ground.

1984-85 and 1986-87: the fantastic Howard Kendall years, culminating in him walking away after we were not allowed into Europe... And they wonder why we hate Liverpool FC!

Colin Harvey tried but failed, followed by the awful Mike Walker, appointed it seemed solely on the back of one performance where Norwich slaughtered us at Goodison Park; Joe Royle's Dogs of War; and then the lame duck that was Walter Smith. He left after a tame surrender at 'Boro in the FA Cup.

Fast forward to Walter Smith finally going. I remember wanting one of two up and coming managers to get the Everton job. Moyes was one and the other (promise not to laugh?) was Gary Megson. It took Moyes thirty seconds to work his magic in the first match v Fulham at Goodison.

Since then, he has alternated between feast and famine. Yes, I was lucky enough to experience lots of glory days, the last being when we watched us beat Man Utd at Wembley in 1995 when Neville Southall saved us and Paul Rideout got the winner, a great way to finish a career that never quite fulfilled his early potential.

Now, I appreciate that football has changed. When Kendall won the League for the first time, it was a glorious surprise. Yes, we won the FA Cup in 1984 but which of us honestly thought we were going to be that good the following season? How good was that team? It included Paul Bracewell, my favourite Everton player ever.

I know that these days only probably a handful of teams can win the league, but I am sorry to say I have had enough of Moyes. Those mad, piercing blue eyes... he strikes me as someone who will not change his ways even when he is wrong. Why do we often start so badly? Why do our players always get injured? Why is he so conservative in his substitutions? Why are we so crap away from home?

This season, he has left us bereft of any attacking options. Knee-jerk reaction it may be... but I am just hoping that over the next 13 or so games we can stay in to touch with the bottom group of teams so that when we bring in the 2011 equivalent of Duncan Ferguson in January ? hopefully they can save us. What a dreadful state of affairs.

Moyes has to go as we cannot continue to reward him for such incompetence. It is his fault and only his fault that we are this bad. Without strikers, you are nothing. You will recall him saying only recently that he felt that this was his strongest squad. I think most of us realised after two games that this was a squad with no strikers worthy of the name.

So, who to bring in? My choice, as previously stated, would be Roberto Di Matteo. I saw his MK Dons play several times. They played nice football, he looks good, is very presentable and I really think he is going to be a great manager and we should snap him up if we can. I'm not so arrogant to think he would walk out of WBA. His record as a manger in League games is Played 113, Won 59 (52%), Drawn 26, Lost 25. That's very good for a new manager in difficult jobs.

Er , that's it. I have said my piece. I'm sorry, David Moyes, but your number is up.

Reader Comments

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David Thomas
1   Posted 27/09/2010 at 18:51:58

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This is about the 6th or 7th post that we have had in the last couple of weeks suggesting Di Matteo as a new manager for everton. I would love to see how many posts there was suggesting Di Matteo before the start of last month. If i was to have a guess i would say zero. Talk about jumping on the bandwagon. So a few bad results this season and Moyes needs to go and a few good results for Di Matteo and he is the answer for us.

It will be interesting to see come xmas time when we will be in the top half of the league and west brom are near the bottom of the league how many people will be raving about Di Matteo and suggesting him for the managerial position.
Jon Cox
2   Posted 27/09/2010 at 19:37:50

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Dave No 1. (who is number two)

It's not just about a few bad results this season but a few bad results at the start of every season. How many more crap starts to a seaso do we have make.

I'm sorry mate but If I was at a party and got intro'd to Davey the last thing i'd want to talk about in general would be football.

I like to stay awake at parties.

It's not about the bandwagon (unless it's Jonny Johnson) it's about how long Moyes has been trying and failing. And lets face it and call a spade a spade. He's failed big time. It's not even about the transfere kitty anymore, it's about a personality thing. It's the difference between him and Fergy, Bill Shankley, Don Revie, Brian Clough, I think you get the picture.

Before anyone says well it's a different game now to what it once was, then I would say that they were wrong. IT'S ALL ABOUT THE MANAGERS PERSONALITY. It has to be otherwise guys like Cloughy would never have won the European cup. TWICE.

I eas a real Moyes "appologist" but now as i've said before my heart does not rule my head. In the great words of the Godfather, "it's only business Michael" and thats it. It's business and this is the business of winning. Wins above average and getting 4th or 6th doesn't count for didley sqat in this game anymore.

I've said before, for a manager to take over the helm at Goodison I want Bilic. Why,

This guy,a Serb, (check out the history of Serbs) is totaly aggressive in the way he plays and thinks about football. When he's 2-0 up he wants four and woe betide the team selection next time around if that team fails to get 4.

Thats the agro we need to get at the old lady. Not some amazing coach/manager who thinks Rodwell is a right winger...

Now then, answer that one and stay fashionable !!
Richard Reeves
3   Posted 27/09/2010 at 19:52:02

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Jonathan, I agree that Moyes has got to go but not until the end of the season. To change manager now is too risky. Moyes needs to get us out of this first and then hopefully people will call for him to be sacked as the only way he will go will be to resign. I know some people think that being a stubborn man, he would not do this but he is also proud and if enough voices on the terraces make it clear then I think he will go.

On the next manager, who I would like to see at the start of next season? I would go for Martin Jol but like you I have also had this belief that Di Matteo could be a very good manager and this is something I have thought about since midway through last season.

Dennis Stevens
4   Posted 27/09/2010 at 20:14:47

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I'd prefer not to change manager mid-season unless there's no sign of Moyes turning things 'round. However, Moyes must go if Everton have any ambition to win anything, I don't believe he has what it takes to succeed at the highest level.
David Thomas
5   Posted 27/09/2010 at 20:18:19

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Would you say Harry Catterick was "Mr Personality" or Bob Paisley had a great personality? Also, you say it is all about personality and then start mentioning Don Revie, so you lost me with that one.
Robbie Muldoon
6   Posted 27/09/2010 at 20:18:04

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'Not some amazing cosch/manager who thinks Rodwell is a right winger!'

Love that quote, and it damns Moyes and his selections for so many reasons.
Darragh Farrell
7   Posted 27/09/2010 at 20:49:33

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Jon, try calling Bilic a Serb to his face, then you'd really see how agressive he is.
Sean Thompson
8   Posted 27/09/2010 at 20:47:34

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This 'Moyes Out' theme. Has it mainly surfaced this season after 6 or 7 games or were people saying it before when the club had only lost 1 in 13 league games? Interested to know either way.

Secondly, the comment saying 'I don't believe he has what it takes to succeed at the highest level'. You need funds to get to the highest level, something Everton don't have.

In my opinion, Moyes certainly has flaws but personally, I am not convinced drafting in Roberto Di Matteo is the solution!
David Thomas
9   Posted 27/09/2010 at 21:03:03

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Ha ha. Yeah i was going to mention that in my post as well. I don't think calling him a serb would be the best thing Jon could ever do.
Charles King
10   Posted 27/09/2010 at 20:34:23

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Dave @ 4

The managers you mention all had personalty, I think you're hinting that they were'nt loud.

Shankly and Clough were loud personalities.

God, make our next manager out of their mold.
Charles King
11   Posted 27/09/2010 at 21:07:10

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Sean @ 7

I've always had reservations about Moyes, but there were umpteen mitigating circumstances relating to him.

The second half of last season beating top 4 sides showed the pieces of the jigsaw were assembled regardless of circumstance.

The obvious question of can he put the jig saw together has been answered for me.......he can't.
Worse still if my maths are right we're on course for a 19 points season, which, I believe, puts us out of the top 4.
Dick Fearon
12   Posted 27/09/2010 at 20:22:41

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I think along the same lines as in Jon's opening remarks and #2.

Also, an ex-Moyes apologist, the reason my views have changed come down to the man's "safety-first above all else" approach and complete lack of imagination.

I agree also with everyone who points to the difference between the pre-Moyes period and today. That difference is reflected in the fans' hopes and aspirations, things that were non-existent in those dark and gloomy years.

My current dissolution with Moyes stems from those very hopes that he stirred in our breasts. He gave us a taste of what is possible but now that seems his ability is limited by my previously mentioned failings.

At the same time I will not call for his head or make suggestions about alternative managers. I suppose that is because of fear that those dark years could return.

Moyes safety first approach has always garnered enough points to keep us clear of relegation and I expect this season will be the same.

I am more and more critical of him and his methods because this season in particular he seems to be treading water while managers with less quality in their squads are going hell for leather.

Surely he must be kidding when only recently he recognised how bad we are at right midfield and this a year after the Donovan experiment and I do not rate Landon as anything other than competent.

Moyes sticks rigidly to a system designed to produce low-scoring games. He deploys a lone striker plus at the slightest hint of danger every man races to get goal side of the ball. Far too often that mad rush toward our own penalty area leads to long balls from defence to no-one in particular.

He has surrounded himself with assistants, all ex-defenders who I would guess had never scored a dozen goals between them in their entire playing career. How in hell's name can they advise a striker on how to score. Despite all that Moyes complains/whinges about our lack of goals.

To illustrate my point about his lack of imagination I point to SAFs substitutions against Bolton. Manure were losing when they brought on three attack minded substitutes, one of whom replaced a defensive midfielder. That changed flow of the game and produced an equaliser and almost won the game. In the same situation, our Davy would have replaced our lone striker with another lone striker and that would be the sum total of his imagination.

To sum up, I say that Moyes is a good but over cautious ? and until or unless he breaks that mould, he will never be a great ? manager.

Rob Hollis
13   Posted 27/09/2010 at 22:23:52

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Having calmed down a little now, I have been thinking about the 'Moyes Out' calls (myself included) and have come to the conclusion.

He has done a great job of giving us some stability and we know we will end up in the top half of the table somewhere.

But after a while, almost and possibly begin to grate. After a while you look at a good group of players and think sod it, lets go hell for leather to win every game. Forget the usual tedious caution and go for a win. One in two is better than two draws.

Injury time against Man U and Newcastle both could have produced a win, why not a bit earlier?

Moyes is a bit dull and out of his depth to move these players on I think. They can get to the next level but it might be with other clubs. Everton needs a kick up the arse and a bit more of a cavalier approach to the match. A bit more art and fun. We are not going to get this with our current Manager so thanks for taking things this far, but we do need a different attitude to move it on.
Sean Thompson
14   Posted 27/09/2010 at 23:48:56

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Charles @ 10.

Bet you whatever you want we end up with more than 19 points.

What will be interesting to see, is how many teams above us have spent less money.
Dennis Stevens
15   Posted 28/09/2010 at 01:11:38

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Sean, my comment : "I don't believe he has what it takes to succeed at the highest level" was about Moyes - he doesn't need funds to get to the highest level, he just needs to do well enough at Everton to be recruited by a club with more money. Your comment about Everton not having money is somewhat irrelevant - even if we had the funds, Moyes would still be Moyes. You may feel a lot of money is a pre-requisite for achieving success, however, merely having a lot of money to spend is no guarantee.
Michael Parrington
16   Posted 28/09/2010 at 02:08:26

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Jon, as Darragh tried to point out, Bilic is Croatian. I can see your point about his upbringing. After playing with and being coached by Croatians, I can say they are extremely technical and tactical, and hate loosing, and want not only to win, but get there in style.

So Bilic might be a good option, but also one who is completely untested at club level. Also, does he come and work for free for the first year? He still owes us a million quid!! I don't think that the Board of Directors have too short a memory so I can't see him being anything more than a pipe dream.
David Thomas
17   Posted 28/09/2010 at 08:38:18

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"Worse still if my maths are right we're on course for a 19 points season".

Please could you expand on the above a bit please? I am intrigued.
Charles King
18   Posted 28/09/2010 at 12:23:08

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I pro rata'd 3 points from 6 games.

At 38 games in a season

38/6 =6.33
3 points multiplied by 6.33 = 18.99

Think that's the maths of it.

Fuckin great laugh is'nt it?
Andy Crooks
19   Posted 28/09/2010 at 17:39:07

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There haven't been many great British managers in the last twenty years. Glen Hoddle is one, however.
Dennis Stevens
20   Posted 28/09/2010 at 17:56:03

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Charles, wouldn't it be easier to say 3 points divided by 6 matches = 0.5 points per match average, therefore, 38 matches multiplied by 0.5 points per match average = 19 points total for the season?
Charles King
21   Posted 28/09/2010 at 18:42:13

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Yes, Dennis

You will be delighted to know I have qualifications in statistics and other bollox.

Matthew Lovekin
22   Posted 28/09/2010 at 19:50:26

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One name. Owen Coyle. If he would leave Bolton for us!
Dennis Stevens
23   Posted 28/09/2010 at 19:59:55

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Haha, that explains your far more convoluted reasoning, Charles!
Sean Thompson
24   Posted 28/09/2010 at 23:58:34

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Dennis - I now see what you meant - however I guess we'll never know unless that opportunity happens for him I guess. However, sure you'll agree, we'll fail to compete at that highest level until more funds become available.

For me, in my opinion, although Moyes has flaws, the jury is still out as to if someone else could come in and perform massively better on a long term basis.
Nick Wall
25   Posted 29/09/2010 at 12:41:19

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Question. If we can't afford the money for new players, how on earth would we afford the money to sack Moyes less than half way through his contract ?

I can't see the Board sacking Moyes unless we're staring relegation in the face. But they'd be hoping that Moyes would walk of his own accord if things ever came to such a pass.
Dennis Stevens
26   Posted 29/09/2010 at 17:08:03

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Strictly speaking, you're quite right Sean. Unless Moyes has the resources to manage on a par with the best coaches in the game we'll never have proof one way or the other. Personally, I've come to the conclusion that he's a good manager, but not a great one, & I have no expectation that he will ever manage a club successfully - by which I mean winning the Titles & Cups.

I agree that we probably won't part company with Moyes any time soon unless he seems unable to adequately address our current plight. Moyes comes accross as quite an honourable man & I suspect that he would choose to go if he felt that he had failed or could progress no further.

Obviously the clubs with the most resources will tend to dominate but is it impossible to gate-crash that wealthy clique? I'd like to think not, but maybe that's just naive wishful thinking!
Jon Cox
27   Posted 29/09/2010 at 19:32:51

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Charles, are you telling me that you haven't got a degree in meeja studies?

I'll bet you're suicidal (lol)
Jon Cox
28   Posted 29/09/2010 at 19:35:33

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Charles, just thought of something that's been bugging me. If I pro-rated 3 points from 6 games and then divided 38/6 multiplied by 6.33, what sort of answer would I get if I factored in the coefficient of Pythagorus and then used an antilog of the number umpteen?
Jon Cox
29   Posted 29/09/2010 at 19:44:35

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To continue, If I took the pro rata of 3 points from 6 games and multiplied it by the square on the hypotinuse and then squared it by the antilog of 18.99 do you think i'd get the right answer if I triangulated with the square root of the number umpteen?
Paul Oakes
30   Posted 29/09/2010 at 23:58:06

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Sean Thompson - sorry mate, I wouldn't trust Moyes with a loaf of bread.
Paul Oakes
31   Posted 30/09/2010 at 09:57:18

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Dick Fearon - That difference is reflected in the fans' hopes and aspirations, things that were non-existent in those dark and gloomy years.

I think you will find that you statement is very wrong indeed... Walter Smith was removed because of what Moyes is doing right now. To believe we were devoid of passion or had no aspirations defies any logic whatsoever.

We got rid of Smith didn't we? if it had been left to the fat controller, he'd still be in charge today... believe it.
Charles King
32   Posted 02/10/2010 at 18:40:11

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Being a Moyes Moaner I'm perplexed when others say who would you replace him with, not because I doubt others couldn't emulate Moyes but the club needs what Shankly did at liverpool, Clough at Derby and Forest, Fergie at Aberdeen, Mourinho at Porto.

But where are they? Anyone know?

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