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The Sting

By Steve Guy :  30/09/2010 :  Comments (50) :
David Moyes took a big gamble this summer and it looks to have failed. That gamble was all about his pool of strikers. He clearly believed that Yakubu and Anichebe would come back to full fitness far quicker than they actually have. He put his faith in Saha last season by giving the latter a full contract as opposed to ?pay as you play? and he?s been a sick note ever since. He decided Vaughan wasn?t up to it one way or the other and recruited Beckford; prolific in the lower leagues, he may still adjust, but the evidence so far would make you bet against it.

All-in-all, Moyes put his faith in the above because he wanted to spend the cash he had on the current squad; retaining Arteta, Rodwell and hopefully Pienaar. That was a deliberate choice on his part, but it has left us incredibly one-dimensional in midfield. The lack of pressure we exert on opposition defences means that both midfield and especially defence are under far more pressure in games than they should be with the nett effect being the silly mistakes that inevitably accompany the lack of an outlet.

If he wanted to spend the cash on existing squad members, why was this? That may seem like stating the obvious; why wouldn?t you want to retain the players mentioned above? However, I would contend that this summer was the right time for a clearout. Of the above players, the only one I would have been desperate to keep was Arteta. We had chances to get decent money for Yakubu and someone would have taken a punt on Saha. It was obvious to anyone but the most blind optimist that Pienaar wanted away and we?ve now blown our chances of getting decent money for him, as he?ll go on a free next summer or for pennies in January.

I also think we should have cashed in on Rodwell. We can?t afford to continue to act as a nursery for Man Utd, City et al; let them do the nurturing. Rodwell will be gone within two years anyway in my opinion. We may get more money for him then, assuming he continues to improve, but selling him now along with Pienaar and Yakubu would have provided the cash to get right and left sided wingers AND a striker.

Worst still, I think Moyes?s strategy was based on principle ? not tactics, or concerns over squad depth. £6M was not enough for Yakubu, apparently. Pienaar for £10M? Not nearly enough for Moyes, who felt that Everton?s offer to Pienaar was generous and if he didn?t like it then he could see out his contract. There?s £16M written off and it was clear that we could have got £20M + for Rodwell; but I think Moyes felt that it would imply we are a selling club again, when he has been insistent that we are not. £36M down the river to prove we don?t need to sell? Bonkers.

The worst part now is that we are stuck with the hand Moyes has dealt himself until January at the earliest. If, as is likely, we are still trying to escape the treacle of the lower half of the EPL, he will have to buy big to get us out of it. If Yakubu has started finding the net regularly by then, Saha becomes the new Lazarus, or Beckford finally steps up; the problem may have gone away and we just have to resign ourselves to mid-table mediocrity for the second year running with the allegedly best squad we?ve had for 15/20 years. However, if the current performances still persist, we won?t be able to give Yakubu away. Pienaar will be off for nowt and selling Rodwell in haste in January will not maximise the funds he could generate if sold in the summer. On top of that, Moyes is well known for not wanting to do business in January anyway (Donovan being a magnificent exception).

Moyes has got it spectacularly wrong and for once I can?t see a gung ho, back?s to the wall approach getting us out of it. I hope I am very wrong.

Reader Comments

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Alan Clarke
1   Posted 30/09/2010 at 14:23:05

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Sell Rodwell? Is this a wind up? Rodwell should be the first name on the team sheet and the team should now be built round him. I would sell every other member of the squad before Rodwell. This guy is an Evertonian, he has the potential to be one of the best ever players for us, he's been mentioned as a future England captain and he's signed a 5 year deal showing loyalty to us and you want to sell him.

I agree that some members of the squad (jagielka) should have been sacrificed to raise money to buy a striker but if I write the expletives going through my head at your ridiculous suggestion of selling Rodwell, I'd be banned from this website.
Lee Hind
2   Posted 30/09/2010 at 14:22:42

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A relatively well thought out post - with a little persuasion I could agree that Pienaar should have been cashed in, given his contract situation, thus enabling more balance to be achieved. I'm definitely one of those people who thought that £6m was a fair price for the Yak given his recent issues and current fitness but your whole argument begins to disintegrate as you advocate the selling of Rodwell.

This is one of our brightest prospects for a long time and we should be doing everything in our power to keep such players at Goodison on long contracts. The argument becomes yet more confused by the valuation you place on him - as I understand it the best offer we had was £15m (and I rely soley on red top rags for that 'news') so how it is 'clear' we would have got £20m + I don't know.

I would suggest that by late December, if we remain in our current position, Moyes will be gone before Pienaar...
Ray Robinson
3   Posted 30/09/2010 at 14:28:59

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I see where you're coming from but you would have sold two of our best players - Rodwell and Pienaar - in order to "strengthen"? Don't see the logic in that, but I do agree that Moyes has gambled with the strikers, as he has done before when all that we had at the time was Beattie and McFadden. It was a massive risk and has not worked.
Howard Don
4   Posted 30/09/2010 at 14:23:39

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I'll go somewhere down this road with you Steve in that I thought from the start we were taking a gamble up front. It has backfired spectacularly as certainly the crux of our problems is in not scoring goals. Mistakes against Blackburn and Wolves which have cost us at least 4 points shouldn't have mattered that much if we'd just managed to score one more goal in each game. Villa away, did we ever dominate so much without scoring? Another three points gone due to lack of ability to put chances away. Trouble is when you've no money you have to gamble somewhere and hindsight is a wonderfull thing. Have to admit I'd have taken £6 million for the Yak tho'. Now he looks like our best hope if he continues to progress, but the pessimist in me has doubts about him getting 100% fit and staying that way.

Not with you on the sale of Rodwell though and I must admit I was in the keep Piennar camp. It's also tempting to see Vaughan scoring for Palace and say we should have kept him. But on balance I'd say he's better off getting games/improving confidence in the Championship, hopefully proving his fitness, and coming back at Christmas.
Steve Guy
5   Posted 30/09/2010 at 14:40:03

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I thought the Rodwell one would be contentious, but I think his signing a long contract was to help protect his value not because of his undying love for the Club; few if any players are loyal for the sake of it these days (if they ever were). Remember one Mr Rooney wouldn't sign such a deal and we were scrabbling to cash in once he said he wanted away?

Unless we are actually winning trophies and in Europe, Rodwell will be off, regardless of what we as Evertonians might want, and I was just trying to be pragmatic. My valuation of Rodwell was based on what I also read in the summer.

Marc Williams
6   Posted 30/09/2010 at 14:28:31

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Steve, I'm not having a go at you here but please tell me who offered £10 mil' for Pienaar or £20 mil' for Rodwell? As I recall there was an official offer for Yak (later revised down) & a tentative approach for Jags, which was firmly rejected.
John Hughes
7   Posted 30/09/2010 at 14:33:51

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I can see where you are coming from Steve and you make what appears to be a very lucid argument backing the case to cash in on Rodwell. However, I have the impression that virtually to a man (or woman!), we Evertonians took a huge sigh of relief when Rodwell signed on the dotted line and for once we can look forward to getting some value from a young player with such promise.

Let's face it, not many could have predicted the way things have gone for us so far this term and with a little bit of luck and a bit more belief that comes with it, we would all be giving Moyes a lot of praise for some fantastic planning right now. We all have to take risks when strategising and the ones DM took have come back to haunt him. He's not perfect by any means but give the bloke a break - we will improve from this position and the Club needs to support him financially somehow - however, that's another story and another debate as we know............COYBB

Lynn Thorne
8   Posted 30/09/2010 at 14:53:11

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Hindsight is a wonderful thing! This exact team were performing really well at the back end of last season. I was thrilled that we kept hold of everyone, and not too worried (except maybe for a right mid) that we hadn't bought. If we had carried on in the same vein, would you still be saying sell these players? A bit of luck and we wouldn't be where we are now.

As Marc said, only the papers were talking of people coming in for players and their values ? where is the evidence that they existed? I am concerned about our position, but hope that things will steadily improve as from Saturday.

Steve Guy
9   Posted 30/09/2010 at 14:56:55

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Marc, Rodwell valuation as per my remarks under *5 and Pienaar valuation based on consistent transfer gossip (accepted) linking Pienaar to Spurs with valuations of £10m+.
Steve Guy
10   Posted 30/09/2010 at 14:59:12

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Lynn, the team was doing well last season and playing some great football at times but neither Yakubu or Saha were the one's getting the goals.
Brendan McLaughlin
11   Posted 30/09/2010 at 15:03:59

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Steve, as Lynn says hindsight is a wonderful thing & I was just curious if you were advocating this strategy during the summer before things went pear-shaped?
Lynn Thorne
12   Posted 30/09/2010 at 15:09:59

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True. So one would hope that with them fit, then we would get more!
Simplistic I know, and they are getting to their Use by date.
BUT - if we had started well and if we did have a good season. All those players would want to stay and more would want to come.
As I said - Hindsight
Brian Wilson
13   Posted 30/09/2010 at 14:34:31

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Yes it would have made sense for Pienaar and Yakubu to have been sold while we could recoup something half decent for them after their poor showing at the World Cup. But what would that have done to retaining Arteta and possibly others? It also presupposes that Moyes would replace them wisely, which he may well have done given his luck or eye for operating in the bargain basement. But I certainly wouldn't trust him with any sales of family silver like Rodwell as am not convinced by his use of the proceeds from selling of Rooney and Lescott.
Tom Hughes
14   Posted 30/09/2010 at 14:49:51

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Steve, I think you're right in saying that Moyes gambled on the striker situation. But, isn't it a fact that he's had to do similar every season, given the complete lack of funding he's had to deal with? He's had to release some of the limited funds to secure squad members who he has tried and tested, and have fitted well into his team. My guess is that he got to the point where he felt that having had to repeatedly sell to buy, he had finally built more than a decent team (if not squad) that isn't that far off...... a view possibly vindicated by the performances of the second half of last season. Personally, I think he values Piennar's contribution individually and the way he combines with Baines, and would want to preserve that combination.... sum of the parts etc. He obviously hoped that a hungry Beckford would add some spice up front. The gamble hasn't worked out yet! But surely the biggest sin is that he's had to gamble at all, when he has brought the team so close. At this point, sufficient funds should've been found to allow him to fill any gaps properly, and with real proven quality.... he's never had that luxury IMO.
Jimmy Hacking
15   Posted 30/09/2010 at 15:56:40

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I little off-topic, but I've just tried Chang Beer for the first time; it's quite nice.
Nelaj Behajiha
16   Posted 30/09/2010 at 16:08:39

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Totally disagree, Arteta is shite and getting rid of a talented young central midfielder and our best player Steven Pienaar is totally ridiculous. Arteta, Jagielka and Yakubu should of gone from Defour,Santa Cruz and Donovan.
James Stewart
17   Posted 30/09/2010 at 16:10:42

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I agree with most of this part from the selling Rodwell.

That would be stupid he hasn't even set the world on fire here yet let alone at Manchester Utd. His stock will only get higher once he starts playing for England so keep hold.

Our strikers are a joke though. Saha aside all are painfully poor to watch at present.
Tommy Gibbons
18   Posted 30/09/2010 at 16:07:53

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Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing! I'm of the opinion that for the first summer ever under Moyes he actually made all the right decisions, knowing that the transfer kitty was nigh on empty and having to up the wages of greedy bastard footballers just to stay at the club. He, as well as us, knows this is by far the best squad we're ever likely to have without investment...

(Oh, and as an aside, before you start blaming Kenwright for everything, isn't it about time the players got stick for the obscene amount of money they get paid for playing a game! It is players and to a lesser extent agents who are bleeding clubs dry!)

So, having defended Moyes for his summer of love for the squad, I'm one of those who have/will continue to berate him for not yet knowing his best team and his tactical ineptitude ? especially against so called weaker teams... Simple fact is; the pressure for once is fully on Moyes ? and he's not coping too well, is he?

Norman Merrill
19   Posted 30/09/2010 at 16:08:01

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When I read, We should cash in on Rodwell, I lost interest.
David Thomas
20   Posted 30/09/2010 at 16:30:04

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"Arteta is shite" Are you being serious? He may not have hit top form yet this season, but i think you will be in a minority of one with your opinion that he is shite.
Paul Loins
21   Posted 30/09/2010 at 16:39:48

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I agree with most postings on this matter. I feel we need to instil more passion and fight into the team. We have the derby coming up and Moyes hasn't a clue on how to approach these types of games in particular. I'd give big Joe the job back till the end of the season and try and get a striker in the window.
Tony J Williams
22   Posted 30/09/2010 at 17:11:03

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Give the job to Big Joe, genius. What has he done of late? Can't remember seeing his name mentioned much in the Premiership.
Peter Laing
23   Posted 30/09/2010 at 17:40:00

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Arteta certainly is not shite, but ask yourself this question have you ever seen him pull out a top draw performance against the SKY 4. The annoying issue for me with Arteta is he always seems to go missing in the big games.
Steve Edwards
24   Posted 30/09/2010 at 16:48:57

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Decent article. When it became apparent that Pienaar would not sign, I was one that said we should sell. I still think so as I see no point in cutting your nose off to spite your face. I don't think he would have stayed at any other club considering the situation but David Moyes is David Moyes,enough said.

We should have probably taken the 6m for Yakubu. I know its only half what we paid for him but that injury is no ordinary injury. A guy came on here (can't remember his name) and he seem very knowledgeable on the subject of injury to the archillies tendon. He stated categorically that Yakubu would never be the same when he came back from this. What I've seen of Yakubu since tells me that he was absolutely right. So David Moyes knocks back the 6m. I think he made a mistake.

I don't think selling Rodwell is a good idea at the moment but like Steve, I do think he will be gone within 2 years. Yes I know, we may get into the Champions League and then he'll want to stay but let face it, unless substantial investment comes in from somewhere, pigs may fly.

The one I think we really missed out on was not selling the Jag. I must be honest and say this is hindsight now but 15m seems an absolute bargain for him right now. I've always believed that central defenders are not that differcult to replace (unless you buy somebody French whose name begins with D). There are plenty of good solid centre backs in the lower divisions as Birmingham testify.

I feel really sorry for Beckford. Moyes prides himself on doing his homework before buying a player. Well its absolutely fuckin obvious to anyone who knows anything about football that Beckford is not suited to the role of lone striker. If you put the guy into a team that plays two up front he would probably be a success. The poor lad will be labelled a failure and why? Because he is asked to play the very specialist role of lone stiker. David he was never, ever, a lone striker, you may as well play him in goal.
David Booth
25   Posted 30/09/2010 at 17:37:53

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Not sure I follow some of the logic here: sell Jagielka, Pienaar and Rodwell - arguably our three best players - and, erm, get three other allegedly good players in instead?

How on earth could getting rid of England's centre half, a future England regular and our midfield dynamo possibly benefit the team?

Yakubu, Distin, Hibbert, Osman, I could understand, but...

No... I can't be bothered... was going to make something of this... but losing the will to live with some of the nonsensical negativity that's been spouted in the last few weeks!
Trevor Lynes
26   Posted 30/09/2010 at 17:56:16

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I should think that the writer should try to get a football agents job as he sounds more like a market trader than a fan.....Im surprised that so many even bothered to debate the issue raised.
Richard Reeves
27   Posted 30/09/2010 at 16:07:39

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I thought that with the money available Moyes has signed a good player in Gueye and I can't critisise him for bringing in Beckford as a lot of people believed he could be a prolific goalscorer and with no signing on fee, it's a sensible gamble (if ever there is one).

Before the season started, I wanted the club to tie down Pienaar's contract and if that meant the same deal as Arteta then that's what they should have done because if other clubs are really serious about him then they will be back with serious bids instead of waiting to get him on the cheap. Pienaar is one of our most important players and if it is the board who are refusing to improve Pienaar's contract then it is their mistake and like so if it is Moyes's decision. But, as I said, if it is the board's decision then I can understand Moyes taking the risk of letting his contract run down if there is a chance of him re-signing as long as we qualify or are at least pushing for a Champions League position (especially with the quality we DO have in the squad).

We desperately needed a good right winger so that is a position he has failed to cover before the start of the season. Maybe because we payed too much for Yakubu, he was expecting too much in return for a player past his prime, so maybe that is another failure. But I thought that the Yak could have something to prove and that we should keep him anyway (so long as there were no ridiculously high bids for him).

As Lynn say's hindsight is a wonderfull thing and it now looks like Pienaar is on his way out because we will probably finnish mid-table but beforehand I could understand Moyes's decision. So, apart from signing a right winger, I have not got a problem with Moyes in the transfer market this season, in fact, I actually think he has done very well again ? especially with the embarrassing amount available.

The problem I have with Moyes is not so much with buying and selling players but managing and coaching. If only Moyes could pick the players and someone else coach and manage them because, eight times out of ten, I like the type of player Moyes goes for. The problem we now have is that, because Moyes has not got what it takes to manage bigger numbers, more options and expectation, he may have single-handedly lost Pienaar and maybe other players with his wrong selections and tactics, which is one of a number of reasons why he needs to go (but not until we get out of this mess).

We are all moaning about a lack of striking options at the moment but, if the right players were played in the right formation with a bit more attacking intent, then we would probably be talking about something else... I can't make my mind up about Beckford until we play more to his strengths i.e. two up front or even some decent delivery.

On the subject of selling Rodwell ? for me, it is a definite NO-WAY. He would be one of the last players to sell. Here are a few I would get rid of first and if that meant the whole lot to generate money or Rodwell, then I would choose the former: Neville, Distin, Hibbert, Osman, Saha, Anichebe and Vaughan.

Drew Glenister
28   Posted 30/09/2010 at 18:23:39

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Another case of being clever after the event.

Hindsight is 20/20.

Why not concentrate on 'supporting' if you are a supporter of Everton football club.

Some of the posts on this site are worthy of an RS forum..Who needs enemies when you've got fellow fans like these.

Cheer up FFS we're 6 games in to what will prove to be our best season for years and we're about to really gub someone... I can feel it... Believe brothers believe!!!

Ps. Distin out.
Oliver Molloy
29   Posted 30/09/2010 at 18:43:52

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I keep going on about this but we did turn down £8m (or thereabouts) bid last year for Saha from Besiktas I think it was. This was absolute madness given his injury record... £8 MILLION!!!

Not buying a quality striker is/was a big mistake. The Yak will have to put the ball in the net if he wants his move; we will have to wait and see if he can rediscover a bit of form.

Pienaar could yet sign a new contract but I don't think he will, as he and his agent think he should be getting in and round what we are allegedly paying Arteta -? £75 grand a week!! ? which is more complete madness; no way is he worth that kind of money.

I do believe Rodwell will be sold unless we find a sugar daddy for the club; in the current climate we live in, finding a buyer who's is going to put their money were their mouth is not going to be easy.

I've been supporting Everton for 30 years,but lately I'm beginning not to give a toss any more. I'm fed up at being disappointed, head down, the weight of the world on me because we cannot win a frickin football match against the likes of Brentford. Everton FC were and are an important part of my life... but my daughter is more important!!

Martin Handley
30   Posted 30/09/2010 at 20:15:22

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Why all the Distin out cries? Maybe he's not as quick as he used to be but he's the only left sided c/b on the books. Without him the back 4 becomes 1 demensional right sided.

As for your post about selling Yak, Rodders & Stevie P. I agree with selling Stevie P to Landon coming back or the straight swap for Robbie Keane or Bentley and if someone offered £4 m for fat Yak I'd bite their hand off! But I'm sorry sell Rodders for £20m? You must be 'avin' a larff, my son! I would want at least double that as he's a more complete player and person than Shrek! But pray tell who would you replace him with?

Oh and, by the way, the man to blame for the whole shambles is Moyes!

Jon Cox
31   Posted 30/09/2010 at 20:38:26

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Jesus I wish we had Adam Johnson.

This guy will be electric in the years to come.

Nostradamus I'm not but it's so easy to work out when you see a magic footballer. (Alan Ball?)
Paul Loins
32   Posted 30/09/2010 at 20:46:18

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I'm also losing the will to live with Everton's performances and agree with Martin(28) that the ultimate responsibility has got to be the managers!!!! Fall on your rusty sword Mr Moyes..... In Moyes we rust!!!!

We are toothless and lack passion and fight.... what is going on !!!!

Jon Cox
33   Posted 30/09/2010 at 20:46:47

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Shit, just thought I met Alan Ball and Howard Kendall. At the same time.

Once upon a time Southport had an open air swimming pool. It was summer 1969. I was (of course) a young child Everton supporter. Nobody recognised them sat there in seats overlooking the pool. But I did.

I went over and did the iconic kid thing with all the innocence that a kid would do and went over and talked to them.

The question I asked was Who's the first game you got, for the new season. Quick answer, because I was about nine, ish was Arsenal.

Wow I was now a stat man. We beat them 1-0 AWAY and that was the beginning to our league title. 1970.

And just think Deep Purple released "In Rock"


I'll never forget that day. Lottery win, forget it, unless.......
Martin Handley
34   Posted 30/09/2010 at 23:21:46

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David (#33) I'm always behind the team home and away but am heartily sick and tired of Moyes and this 4-5-1 bullshit. It's stale, old and tired and every team even the Brentfords of this world have us sussed out. He (Moyes) is blind to the fact it's his tactics that have put us in this mess, the team are sick of the system and don't have confidence in it.

Moyes blames the strikers, well he bought them and they were perfectly good before they got here, as was Distin. But it can't be your fault Davey can it? Because nothing ever is, either the players don't listen, the ref's against us,the grass isn't green enough but oh no, never the great Davey's fault!

Stop being so inflexible with your tactics and change them... or, if you won't, we the fans will change you!

Sean Patton
35   Posted 30/09/2010 at 23:30:30

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It is hard to take a lot of these stories in the press seriously , the best one I read wast his summer
VILLA TO UNITED. i kid you not but the very next day he signed for Barcelona and not a word was said by said newspaper about it.

However I agree with Oliver about Saha and if the 5 million for Osman story was true plus we sold Yobo instead of loaning him out then that all adds up to 15 million for a striker.

Ah well lets give those Brummies a damn good thrashing we definately owe them one.
John Daley
36   Posted 30/09/2010 at 23:30:22

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If the manager and team don't deserve criticism when they're sitting bottom of the league, without a win in six games and recently humiliated by the mighty Brentford, then when will they deserve it?

I really don't understand some peoples propensity for chastising those who choose to post and bemoan the current state of affairs. If a supporter is disgruntled about their team then they're perfectly entitled to voice their frustrations and air their views, no matter how negative they may be. Surely, with the exception of the pub, a fan site is the perfect place to piss and moan about the teams performance? Or would you rather it be like the OS with it's banal messages of mindless backing for 'the boys' and it's outlawing of anything even slightly controversial or pessimistic?

Self-righteously imploring people to "stop talking rubbish" and 'get behind the lads' on a fucking website is pointless and achieves absolutely nothing at all.

The time to vociferously back the team is on a match day.
Dick Fearon
37   Posted 01/10/2010 at 03:57:23

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From what I have seen of Rodwell on the box I cant make out what makes people think he is a world beater.
Jack pops up on the scene only on occasion yet I have seen other teenagers doing hard graft for the full 90 minutes. Bobby Moore at the same age was dominating games from start to finish. Gerrard was starting to hit his straps and I am sure a little research would find a heap of players that first came to notice while under 20.
Jack has the basics of a top player but he can only if given an extended run in the first team.
Any player over the age of 18 would have had 10 years of professional coaching and should be mentally and physically able to withstand the pressure of the premier league.
If that is not the case then question marks must be raised against the backroom.

Tony Cheek
38   Posted 01/10/2010 at 05:25:35

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Dick ...of course he is good enough , but WHEN does DM ever give a young player an extended run , yes....when he knows he can sell them to United et. al.......
Afzan Yusuf
39   Posted 01/10/2010 at 07:37:46

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Sell Rodwell? No thanks...
3 or 4 million for Pienaar in January? Yes please...
Any top league strikers will fair better than the options we have now...
Robbie Keane... anybody?
Ray Roche
40   Posted 01/10/2010 at 07:25:26

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I can't believe that people on here, people who have the vote, can maybe drive a car, maybe own a house and hold down a job, can imagine that if we sold ANY players and received £26m, then that £26m would be given to Moyes to strengthen the team. FFS, get real!
Ian Bennett
41   Posted 01/10/2010 at 10:33:50

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If anyone should have been sacrificed, it should have been Bily, Felli or Heitinga, and not Rodwell or Jags.

The Pienaar situation is just stupid. We should have sold ? but hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I still can't believe we didn't sign someone on loan; surely we could have picked up someone with a view to signing, a la Arteta etc.
Tony J Williams
42   Posted 01/10/2010 at 13:39:44

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"Not buying a quality striker is/was a big mistake" No it wasn't it was the fact that we had no money to buy one.

"Change them... or, if you won't, we the fans will change you!" - Ermm, no we wont. We have no influence on him at all.
Martin Handley
43   Posted 01/10/2010 at 15:50:45

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Tony #42 And that's the problem we can't because he would cost too damn much in compensation.
Oh if you're going to quote use the full quote not just the part that suits you.
I find it strange the amount of people willing to let Moyes of the hook for the teams abject start to the season.I remember a certain Mike Walker having a similar run and Walter Smith and it was off with their heads way before it got to this.
I'm also heartily sick of the"In Moyes we trust " cronies BOLLOCKS! Will you still trust him when we're relegated or will that be somebody elses fault as well?
Please as has been said before stop this support Moyes bull he's been here far longer than his predessors ,spent more money on failures,VDM,Kroldrup,Beattie,Billy etc than any other Everton manager.
But hang on like I've said before these were all top quality players when we signed them. So maybe just maybe for all those Moyes appologists out there it'sa his coaching methods that are problem.Also why oh why do we pick up so many pre season injuries since Moyes arrived?
You can't blame Kenwright for that although I'm sure some of you will have a good try!
Tony J Williams
44   Posted 01/10/2010 at 16:58:19

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It's not about letting him off the hook, it's that we, as the fans, will not make Bill sack him. And please don't come back with the "it's fans like you why we are in the position we are now" blah blah. Me not ranting and raving doesn't have the slightest effect on our league position.

VDM, top quality was he? He hadn't played in months and was injured when we got him.

Kroldrup had one game, how did Moyes ruin him?

Meattie had one good season in the Premiership and again was injured when we got him so how was he a top quality player, in fact, laughably, there were some posters screaming for his inclusion in the last World Cup when he was with us.

Bily, scored more and created more goals than Pienaar, all in his first season. How is he ruined?

Who was injured badly this pre-season?
Steve Guy
45   Posted 01/10/2010 at 19:07:30

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Interesting that I have in the past been labelled more than once as a Moyes' apologist. I wasn't pro then and I'm not anti Moyes either. I am just trying to be objective in writing and trying to analyse why after 6 games we only have two points.

I don't see it as hindsiight to suggest losing Piennaar in the Summer was a real option when he has refused to sign a contract since the beginning of this year. Just common sense and reacting to very clear signals from the player himself and his agent. However I think the one thing Moyes' still hasn't learnt is that sometimes pride comes before a fall. Eatiing a little humble pie on Pienaar and Yakubu could easiily have freed up monies for players we knew we needed. We shouldn't have had to wait until the transfer window was shut for this to become obvious.

I know the Rodwell one was contentious but I honestly think we would be better cashing in. Anyway it's too late now; as I said in the original, Moyes has his hand and must now stiick with the striker pool he chose until Januuary at least.

I like Moyes on so many levels but he got this one wrong and I just hope he can sort it, but I have real doubts.
Paul Loins
46   Posted 01/10/2010 at 21:15:45

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Agree with Martin(36) totally. I am fed up with the In Moyes we much longer will it be misplaced. This is his squad, spent more money than previous managers to produce a negative team and whos only plan is to try and win 1-0 with a 4-5-1.....brilliant....just brilliant....In Moyes we rust !!!!
Martin Handley
47   Posted 01/10/2010 at 22:16:34

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Tony again get your facts straight: Beattie had scored 20+ three seasons running, VDM was a top class experienced winger... yes, injury-prone but worth a punt; Johnson a regular 20+ goalscorer, Krøldrup was rated a top prospect; Yak was 20+ a season... Oh, and short memory for pre-season injuries, Cahill, Saha, Victor, Arteta, and the season before was even better.

How has Bily been ruined? You asked ? By having his arse sat on the bench, that's how  ? and watching Osman play every game! Moyes is now played out with 4-5-1 but is too strubborn to change it, future Man Utd manager? ? don't make me laugh!

Who would I start with tomorrow? Well here goes:

Neville (c)
Subs: Mucha, Coleman, Jagielka (He's suffering a dip at the moment), Cahill, Silva, Bilyaletdinov, Agard

Yes that's right (and I quote): "Everton will be playing 4-4-fucking-2!" Let's have a go at the opposition for once.

But of course it'll be the usual 4-5-1 "In Moyes we're bust!"

Colin Grierson
48   Posted 02/10/2010 at 08:55:18

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There is no question that we have to sell in order to buy. Like many others, I would strongly disagree with selling Rodwell. The rule of thumb for me is don't sell someone that you couldn't afford to buy. Rodwell is a class act and should be the first name on the team sheet (when fit of course).

Moyes has gambled this summer but I don't think that we can say he has lost based on 6 or 7 games. I believe that he should be judged on how he deals withour current situation through team and formation selection.

There are not many people who come on here that don't acknowledge the stability that Moyes has brought to our club. He IS a blue as well. You can see it in his every expression during games.

However, Graeme Sharp has been a great servant to the club but I don't advocate throwing him up front against Birmingham as his time has clearly passed. Well, so too for Osman and Hibbert (as starters at least). If Moyes does not recognise this then maybe his time has passed too.

We can only really judge the strike gamble if we set out with a formation that involves the strikers in the game. We have width in the squad but we don't use it enough.

If Moyes doesn't change the way he sets the team up then he may as well stick Sharp up front.
Colin Grierson
49   Posted 02/10/2010 at 09:19:54

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My keybord is fucked!
Tony J Williams
50   Posted 02/10/2010 at 13:34:04

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Beattie had one 20 goal season in 2002/2003. have a look at his records fella. Unless you want to include the Championship.

The only time Yak has scored 20 is with us. A few 19's but only one 20.

So Cahill and Arteta didn't play against Blackburn then? Strange that, I thought they did. Victor long term injury, Saha....what's new?

Kroldrop has set the world alight since leaving hasn't he?

VDM was worth a punt? what are complaining about then, punt tried and the pisshead failed everyone.

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