All-in-all, Moyes put his faith in the above because he wanted to spend the cash he had on the current squad; retaining Arteta, Rodwell and hopefully Pienaar. That was a deliberate choice on his part, but it has left us incredibly one-dimensional in midfield. The lack of pressure we exert on opposition defences means that both midfield and especially defence are under far more pressure in games than they should be with the nett effect being the silly mistakes that inevitably accompany the lack of an outlet.
If he wanted to spend the cash on existing squad members, why was this? That may seem like stating the obvious; why wouldn?t you want to retain the players mentioned above? However, I would contend that this summer was the right time for a clearout. Of the above players, the only one I would have been desperate to keep was Arteta. We had chances to get decent money for Yakubu and someone would have taken a punt on Saha. It was obvious to anyone but the most blind optimist that Pienaar wanted away and we?ve now blown our chances of getting decent money for him, as he?ll go on a free next summer or for pennies in January.
I also think we should have cashed in on Rodwell. We can?t afford to continue to act as a nursery for Man Utd, City et al; let them do the nurturing. Rodwell will be gone within two years anyway in my opinion. We may get more money for him then, assuming he continues to improve, but selling him now along with Pienaar and Yakubu would have provided the cash to get right and left sided wingers AND a striker.
Worst still, I think Moyes?s strategy was based on principle ? not tactics, or concerns over squad depth. £6M was not enough for Yakubu, apparently. Pienaar for £10M? Not nearly enough for Moyes, who felt that Everton?s offer to Pienaar was generous and if he didn?t like it then he could see out his contract. There?s £16M written off and it was clear that we could have got £20M + for Rodwell; but I think Moyes felt that it would imply we are a selling club again, when he has been insistent that we are not. £36M down the river to prove we don?t need to sell? Bonkers.
The worst part now is that we are stuck with the hand Moyes has dealt himself until January at the earliest. If, as is likely, we are still trying to escape the treacle of the lower half of the EPL, he will have to buy big to get us out of it. If Yakubu has started finding the net regularly by then, Saha becomes the new Lazarus, or Beckford finally steps up; the problem may have gone away and we just have to resign ourselves to mid-table mediocrity for the second year running with the allegedly best squad we?ve had for 15/20 years. However, if the current performances still persist, we won?t be able to give Yakubu away. Pienaar will be off for nowt and selling Rodwell in haste in January will not maximise the funds he could generate if sold in the summer. On top of that, Moyes is well known for not wanting to do business in January anyway (Donovan being a magnificent exception).
Moyes has got it spectacularly wrong and for once I can?t see a gung ho, back?s to the wall approach getting us out of it. I hope I am very wrong.
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1 Posted 30/09/2010 at 14:23:05
I agree that some members of the squad (jagielka) should have been sacrificed to raise money to buy a striker but if I write the expletives going through my head at your ridiculous suggestion of selling Rodwell, I'd be banned from this website.
2 Posted 30/09/2010 at 14:22:42
This is one of our brightest prospects for a long time and we should be doing everything in our power to keep such players at Goodison on long contracts. The argument becomes yet more confused by the valuation you place on him - as I understand it the best offer we had was £15m (and I rely soley on red top rags for that 'news') so how it is 'clear' we would have got £20m + I don't know.
I would suggest that by late December, if we remain in our current position, Moyes will be gone before Pienaar...
3 Posted 30/09/2010 at 14:28:59
4 Posted 30/09/2010 at 14:23:39
Not with you on the sale of Rodwell though and I must admit I was in the keep Piennar camp. It's also tempting to see Vaughan scoring for Palace and say we should have kept him. But on balance I'd say he's better off getting games/improving confidence in the Championship, hopefully proving his fitness, and coming back at Christmas.
5 Posted 30/09/2010 at 14:40:03
Unless we are actually winning trophies and in Europe, Rodwell will be off, regardless of what we as Evertonians might want, and I was just trying to be pragmatic. My valuation of Rodwell was based on what I also read in the summer.
6 Posted 30/09/2010 at 14:28:31
7 Posted 30/09/2010 at 14:33:51
Let's face it, not many could have predicted the way things have gone for us so far this term and with a little bit of luck and a bit more belief that comes with it, we would all be giving Moyes a lot of praise for some fantastic planning right now. We all have to take risks when strategising and the ones DM took have come back to haunt him. He's not perfect by any means but give the bloke a break - we will improve from this position and the Club needs to support him financially somehow - however, that's another story and another debate as we know............COYBB
8 Posted 30/09/2010 at 14:53:11
As Marc said, only the papers were talking of people coming in for players and their values ? where is the evidence that they existed? I am concerned about our position, but hope that things will steadily improve as from Saturday.
9 Posted 30/09/2010 at 14:56:55
10 Posted 30/09/2010 at 14:59:12
11 Posted 30/09/2010 at 15:03:59
12 Posted 30/09/2010 at 15:09:59
Simplistic I know, and they are getting to their Use by date.
BUT - if we had started well and if we did have a good season. All those players would want to stay and more would want to come.
As I said - Hindsight
13 Posted 30/09/2010 at 14:34:31
14 Posted 30/09/2010 at 14:49:51
15 Posted 30/09/2010 at 15:56:40
16 Posted 30/09/2010 at 16:08:39
17 Posted 30/09/2010 at 16:10:42
That would be stupid he hasn't even set the world on fire here yet let alone at Manchester Utd. His stock will only get higher once he starts playing for England so keep hold.
Our strikers are a joke though. Saha aside all are painfully poor to watch at present.
18 Posted 30/09/2010 at 16:07:53
(Oh, and as an aside, before you start blaming Kenwright for everything, isn't it about time the players got stick for the obscene amount of money they get paid for playing a game! It is players and to a lesser extent agents who are bleeding clubs dry!)
So, having defended Moyes for his summer of love for the squad, I'm one of those who have/will continue to berate him for not yet knowing his best team and his tactical ineptitude ? especially against so called weaker teams... Simple fact is; the pressure for once is fully on Moyes ? and he's not coping too well, is he?
19 Posted 30/09/2010 at 16:08:01
20 Posted 30/09/2010 at 16:30:04
"Arteta is shite" Are you being serious? He may not have hit top form yet this season, but i think you will be in a minority of one with your opinion that he is shite.
21 Posted 30/09/2010 at 16:39:48
22 Posted 30/09/2010 at 17:11:03
23 Posted 30/09/2010 at 17:40:00
24 Posted 30/09/2010 at 16:48:57
We should have probably taken the 6m for Yakubu. I know its only half what we paid for him but that injury is no ordinary injury. A guy came on here (can't remember his name) and he seem very knowledgeable on the subject of injury to the archillies tendon. He stated categorically that Yakubu would never be the same when he came back from this. What I've seen of Yakubu since tells me that he was absolutely right. So David Moyes knocks back the 6m. I think he made a mistake.
I don't think selling Rodwell is a good idea at the moment but like Steve, I do think he will be gone within 2 years. Yes I know, we may get into the Champions League and then he'll want to stay but let face it, unless substantial investment comes in from somewhere, pigs may fly.
The one I think we really missed out on was not selling the Jag. I must be honest and say this is hindsight now but 15m seems an absolute bargain for him right now. I've always believed that central defenders are not that differcult to replace (unless you buy somebody French whose name begins with D). There are plenty of good solid centre backs in the lower divisions as Birmingham testify.
I feel really sorry for Beckford. Moyes prides himself on doing his homework before buying a player. Well its absolutely fuckin obvious to anyone who knows anything about football that Beckford is not suited to the role of lone striker. If you put the guy into a team that plays two up front he would probably be a success. The poor lad will be labelled a failure and why? Because he is asked to play the very specialist role of lone stiker. David he was never, ever, a lone striker, you may as well play him in goal.
25 Posted 30/09/2010 at 17:37:53
How on earth could getting rid of England's centre half, a future England regular and our midfield dynamo possibly benefit the team?
Yakubu, Distin, Hibbert, Osman, I could understand, but...
No... I can't be bothered... was going to make something of this... but losing the will to live with some of the nonsensical negativity that's been spouted in the last few weeks!
26 Posted 30/09/2010 at 17:56:16
27 Posted 30/09/2010 at 16:07:39
Before the season started, I wanted the club to tie down Pienaar's contract and if that meant the same deal as Arteta then that's what they should have done because if other clubs are really serious about him then they will be back with serious bids instead of waiting to get him on the cheap. Pienaar is one of our most important players and if it is the board who are refusing to improve Pienaar's contract then it is their mistake and like so if it is Moyes's decision. But, as I said, if it is the board's decision then I can understand Moyes taking the risk of letting his contract run down if there is a chance of him re-signing as long as we qualify or are at least pushing for a Champions League position (especially with the quality we DO have in the squad).
We desperately needed a good right winger so that is a position he has failed to cover before the start of the season. Maybe because we payed too much for Yakubu, he was expecting too much in return for a player past his prime, so maybe that is another failure. But I thought that the Yak could have something to prove and that we should keep him anyway (so long as there were no ridiculously high bids for him).
As Lynn say's hindsight is a wonderfull thing and it now looks like Pienaar is on his way out because we will probably finnish mid-table but beforehand I could understand Moyes's decision. So, apart from signing a right winger, I have not got a problem with Moyes in the transfer market this season, in fact, I actually think he has done very well again ? especially with the embarrassing amount available.
The problem I have with Moyes is not so much with buying and selling players but managing and coaching. If only Moyes could pick the players and someone else coach and manage them because, eight times out of ten, I like the type of player Moyes goes for. The problem we now have is that, because Moyes has not got what it takes to manage bigger numbers, more options and expectation, he may have single-handedly lost Pienaar and maybe other players with his wrong selections and tactics, which is one of a number of reasons why he needs to go (but not until we get out of this mess).
We are all moaning about a lack of striking options at the moment but, if the right players were played in the right formation with a bit more attacking intent, then we would probably be talking about something else... I can't make my mind up about Beckford until we play more to his strengths i.e. two up front or even some decent delivery.
On the subject of selling Rodwell ? for me, it is a definite NO-WAY. He would be one of the last players to sell. Here are a few I would get rid of first and if that meant the whole lot to generate money or Rodwell, then I would choose the former: Neville, Distin, Hibbert, Osman, Saha, Anichebe and Vaughan.
28 Posted 30/09/2010 at 18:23:39
Hindsight is 20/20.
Why not concentrate on 'supporting' if you are a supporter of Everton football club.
Some of the posts on this site are worthy of an RS forum..Who needs enemies when you've got fellow fans like these.
Cheer up FFS we're 6 games in to what will prove to be our best season for years and we're about to really gub someone... I can feel it... Believe brothers believe!!!
Ps. Distin out.
29 Posted 30/09/2010 at 18:43:52
Not buying a quality striker is/was a big mistake. The Yak will have to put the ball in the net if he wants his move; we will have to wait and see if he can rediscover a bit of form.
Pienaar could yet sign a new contract but I don't think he will, as he and his agent think he should be getting in and round what we are allegedly paying Arteta -? £75 grand a week!! ? which is more complete madness; no way is he worth that kind of money.
I do believe Rodwell will be sold unless we find a sugar daddy for the club; in the current climate we live in, finding a buyer who's is going to put their money were their mouth is not going to be easy.
I've been supporting Everton for 30 years,but lately I'm beginning not to give a toss any more. I'm fed up at being disappointed, head down, the weight of the world on me because we cannot win a frickin football match against the likes of Brentford. Everton FC were and are an important part of my life... but my daughter is more important!!
30 Posted 30/09/2010 at 20:15:22
As for your post about selling Yak, Rodders & Stevie P. I agree with selling Stevie P to Landon coming back or the straight swap for Robbie Keane or Bentley and if someone offered £4 m for fat Yak I'd bite their hand off! But I'm sorry sell Rodders for £20m? You must be 'avin' a larff, my son! I would want at least double that as he's a more complete player and person than Shrek! But pray tell who would you replace him with?
Oh and, by the way, the man to blame for the whole shambles is Moyes!
31 Posted 30/09/2010 at 20:38:26
This guy will be electric in the years to come.
Nostradamus I'm not but it's so easy to work out when you see a magic footballer. (Alan Ball?)
32 Posted 30/09/2010 at 20:46:18
We are toothless and lack passion and fight.... what is going on !!!!
33 Posted 30/09/2010 at 20:46:47
Once upon a time Southport had an open air swimming pool. It was summer 1969. I was (of course) a young child Everton supporter. Nobody recognised them sat there in seats overlooking the pool. But I did.
I went over and did the iconic kid thing with all the innocence that a kid would do and went over and talked to them.
The question I asked was Who's the first game you got, for the new season. Quick answer, because I was about nine, ish was Arsenal.
Wow I was now a stat man. We beat them 1-0 AWAY and that was the beginning to our league title. 1970.
And just think Deep Purple released "In Rock"
WHAT A YEAR!!!!!
I'll never forget that day. Lottery win, forget it, unless.......
34 Posted 30/09/2010 at 23:21:46
Moyes blames the strikers, well he bought them and they were perfectly good before they got here, as was Distin. But it can't be your fault Davey can it? Because nothing ever is, either the players don't listen, the ref's against us,the grass isn't green enough but oh no, never the great Davey's fault!
Stop being so inflexible with your tactics and change them... or, if you won't, we the fans will change you!
35 Posted 30/09/2010 at 23:30:30
VILLA TO UNITED. i kid you not but the very next day he signed for Barcelona and not a word was said by said newspaper about it.
However I agree with Oliver about Saha and if the 5 million for Osman story was true plus we sold Yobo instead of loaning him out then that all adds up to 15 million for a striker.
Ah well lets give those Brummies a damn good thrashing we definately owe them one.
36 Posted 30/09/2010 at 23:30:22
I really don't understand some peoples propensity for chastising those who choose to post and bemoan the current state of affairs. If a supporter is disgruntled about their team then they're perfectly entitled to voice their frustrations and air their views, no matter how negative they may be. Surely, with the exception of the pub, a fan site is the perfect place to piss and moan about the teams performance? Or would you rather it be like the OS with it's banal messages of mindless backing for 'the boys' and it's outlawing of anything even slightly controversial or pessimistic?
Self-righteously imploring people to "stop talking rubbish" and 'get behind the lads' on a fucking website is pointless and achieves absolutely nothing at all.
The time to vociferously back the team is on a match day.
37 Posted 01/10/2010 at 03:57:23
Jack pops up on the scene only on occasion yet I have seen other teenagers doing hard graft for the full 90 minutes. Bobby Moore at the same age was dominating games from start to finish. Gerrard was starting to hit his straps and I am sure a little research would find a heap of players that first came to notice while under 20.
Jack has the basics of a top player but he can only if given an extended run in the first team.
Any player over the age of 18 would have had 10 years of professional coaching and should be mentally and physically able to withstand the pressure of the premier league.
If that is not the case then question marks must be raised against the backroom.
38 Posted 01/10/2010 at 05:25:35
39 Posted 01/10/2010 at 07:37:46
3 or 4 million for Pienaar in January? Yes please...
Any top league strikers will fair better than the options we have now...
Robbie Keane... anybody?
40 Posted 01/10/2010 at 07:25:26
41 Posted 01/10/2010 at 10:33:50
The Pienaar situation is just stupid. We should have sold ? but hindsight is a wonderful thing.
I still can't believe we didn't sign someone on loan; surely we could have picked up someone with a view to signing, a la Arteta etc.
42 Posted 01/10/2010 at 13:39:44
"Change them... or, if you won't, we the fans will change you!" - Ermm, no we wont. We have no influence on him at all.
43 Posted 01/10/2010 at 15:50:45
Oh if you're going to quote use the full quote not just the part that suits you.
I find it strange the amount of people willing to let Moyes of the hook for the teams abject start to the season.I remember a certain Mike Walker having a similar run and Walter Smith and it was off with their heads way before it got to this.
I'm also heartily sick of the"In Moyes we trust " cronies BOLLOCKS! Will you still trust him when we're relegated or will that be somebody elses fault as well?
Please as has been said before stop this support Moyes bull he's been here far longer than his predessors ,spent more money on failures,VDM,Kroldrup,Beattie,Billy etc than any other Everton manager.
But hang on like I've said before these were all top quality players when we signed them. So maybe just maybe for all those Moyes appologists out there it'sa his coaching methods that are problem.Also why oh why do we pick up so many pre season injuries since Moyes arrived?
You can't blame Kenwright for that although I'm sure some of you will have a good try!
44 Posted 01/10/2010 at 16:58:19
VDM, top quality was he? He hadn't played in months and was injured when we got him.
Kroldrup had one game, how did Moyes ruin him?
Meattie had one good season in the Premiership and again was injured when we got him so how was he a top quality player, in fact, laughably, there were some posters screaming for his inclusion in the last World Cup when he was with us.
Bily, scored more and created more goals than Pienaar, all in his first season. How is he ruined?
Who was injured badly this pre-season?
45 Posted 01/10/2010 at 19:07:30
I don't see it as hindsiight to suggest losing Piennaar in the Summer was a real option when he has refused to sign a contract since the beginning of this year. Just common sense and reacting to very clear signals from the player himself and his agent. However I think the one thing Moyes' still hasn't learnt is that sometimes pride comes before a fall. Eatiing a little humble pie on Pienaar and Yakubu could easiily have freed up monies for players we knew we needed. We shouldn't have had to wait until the transfer window was shut for this to become obvious.
I know the Rodwell one was contentious but I honestly think we would be better cashing in. Anyway it's too late now; as I said in the original, Moyes has his hand and must now stiick with the striker pool he chose until Januuary at least.
I like Moyes on so many levels but he got this one wrong and I just hope he can sort it, but I have real doubts.
46 Posted 01/10/2010 at 21:15:45
47 Posted 01/10/2010 at 22:16:34
How has Bily been ruined? You asked ? By having his arse sat on the bench, that's how ? and watching Osman play every game! Moyes is now played out with 4-5-1 but is too strubborn to change it, future Man Utd manager? ? don't make me laugh!
Who would I start with tomorrow? Well here goes:
Subs: Mucha, Coleman, Jagielka (He's suffering a dip at the moment), Cahill, Silva, Bilyaletdinov, Agard
Yes that's right (and I quote): "Everton will be playing 4-4-fucking-2!" Let's have a go at the opposition for once.
But of course it'll be the usual 4-5-1 "In Moyes we're bust!"
48 Posted 02/10/2010 at 08:55:18
Moyes has gambled this summer but I don't think that we can say he has lost based on 6 or 7 games. I believe that he should be judged on how he deals withour current situation through team and formation selection.
There are not many people who come on here that don't acknowledge the stability that Moyes has brought to our club. He IS a blue as well. You can see it in his every expression during games.
However, Graeme Sharp has been a great servant to the club but I don't advocate throwing him up front against Birmingham as his time has clearly passed. Well, so too for Osman and Hibbert (as starters at least). If Moyes does not recognise this then maybe his time has passed too.
We can only really judge the strike gamble if we set out with a formation that involves the strikers in the game. We have width in the squad but we don't use it enough.
If Moyes doesn't change the way he sets the team up then he may as well stick Sharp up front.
49 Posted 02/10/2010 at 09:19:54
50 Posted 02/10/2010 at 13:34:04
The only time Yak has scored 20 is with us. A few 19's but only one 20.
So Cahill and Arteta didn't play against Blackburn then? Strange that, I thought they did. Victor long term injury, Saha....what's new?
Kroldrop has set the world alight since leaving hasn't he?
VDM was worth a punt?....so what are complaining about then, punt tried and the pisshead failed everyone.
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