I was overly optimistic over the summer and thought we had an outside shot at the title. I don't think I really expected it but I was happy, it was sunny, I'd just become a dad, and players were extending their contracts. If not league champions, a place in one of the other 6 european slots was good enough for me.
I don't feel this makes me one of those supporters savaged by many on this site for aiming too low and letting Bill and Moyes off the hook. If anything, my hope that we'd at worst finish 7th was totally unrealistic given the fact we have a transfer budget smaller than Blackpool FC and several Championship teams.
I like Moyes and I trust him to do the right thing by EFC. Much like Wenger at Arsenal, I feel he has the club's best interests at heart and have never wanted him to be shown the door. Quite simply, I think without him we would become relegation candidates within two seasons.
There's been complaints he doesn't employ players in their best positions. He isn't quick enough to make substitutions or change formation. He's stubborn. He has his band of untouchable players. He's greedy and lucky. However, perhaps one of the biggest criticisms bestowed upon him is that his teams play boring football. I have an issue with this.
How many teams that finish at the top of the table, who don't have a lot of money, play sexy football? None. Man Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs, Villa, Liverpool, Man City all have lots of money or have spent a lot of money in the last few seasons. The remaining 14 less wealthy clubs can be placed into 3 other categories:
1. Hard working and industrious teams that play a brand of football that usually enables them to stave off relegation.
2. Teams that think they are Arsenal but are not.
3. Teams with a bit of both 1 & 2.
The teams in category 2 win plenty of plaudits but in May are invariably found scrapping it out in the bottom 6. Teams in category 1 consolidate and try to improve year on year. Stoke, Fulham and Birmingham spring to mind. I think we're the only team in caegory 3.
I'm not happy with the situation we find ourselves in but I'm realistic and optimistic we'll finish 25 points above the relegation zone fighting it out for 7th place. We haven't been a force in over 20 years but we've had relative success since Moyes became manager.
I've been amazed at some of the names banded around on this site as successors to Moyes: Sven, Coyle, O'Neill, Hoddle, Di Matteo, Bilic to name a few. Yes, we might play more attractive football with some of those men in charge but it'd be in the Championship.
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1 Posted 01/10/2010 at 15:32:44
Your a brave man coming on this site offering support to Moyes. I don't think the natives will appreciate that concept.
2 Posted 01/10/2010 at 15:31:42
3 Posted 01/10/2010 at 16:40:46
The rest play ugly football. Chelsea play ugly boring monotonous football but are success because of it.
Liverpool, even when they were the other Sky 4 team, were absolutely dreadful to watch, especially in Europe.
So all this "I want pretty football" is simply put, all my arse. Without the personnel to play pretty triangles and then put the ball in the net we are stuck with sporadic good games but mainly dull, drab games. Hopefully winning more than not.
There was a depresing and accurate quote a few days ago, in that the other teams are probably thinking, "let them have the ball and pass pretty, they're going to do nothing then we can catch them on the break", heartbreaking but true. All because we don't want to see ugly football anymore
4 Posted 01/10/2010 at 16:51:00
David #1 - seems to me the natives don't want to hear anything else and want to keep negative.
5 Posted 01/10/2010 at 17:13:49
That's why they've scored 21 league goals already, as against our 4!
6 Posted 01/10/2010 at 17:29:56
7 Posted 01/10/2010 at 17:16:19
We are fashioned by experience, simple as that.
That you choose to dismiss this experience is your choice, but you really are pissing in the wind trying to sell Moyes as someone who 'gives his best'
(nb" I don't think I've seen ONE post suggesting he isn't)
The point (you seem to be missing) though is his best isn't good enough.
I think it's fair to state as fact that 100% of Evertonians want nothing more than to see Everton play good football and win trophies.
However some (imo the realists) look at Moyes, Kenwright, Sky, The PL, the big 3/4/5 etc etc and make a call based on what HAS happened, not what they WISH would happen.
And remember, every time you use an expression like "the let's bash Moyes Brigade", someone (like me!) is looking at your post thinking another deluded, fantasist, apologist prepared to accept second best.
What's good go the goose etc.
8 Posted 01/10/2010 at 17:49:27
From your perspective; who should have replaced Moyes today ? How would you reassess realistic expectations with that person ?
I'm just curious as I usually like your opinion.
I think we'd be screwed, myself. My hopes of any success under Kenwright would then admittedly become an unhealthy fantasy.
9 Posted 01/10/2010 at 18:08:44
Each season we manage to fuck up badly at the start of the season. Each season we do not try to improve, you should have said we have been stagnating since we smacked into 4th, but hey don't let your delusions of grandeur stop you believing something that has been disproved over the years under Moyes. :)
10 Posted 01/10/2010 at 17:58:38
I believe I am a realist too. Moyes has consistently made us "best of the rest" on a budget that has rarely if ever merited it. That's a judgement based on a far longer sample period than just the last 6 games. (let's face it, there was little if any of the current furure close season). Do you honestly believe that any of the names mentioned would have achieved the same, nevermind better over the same period, because they all haven't elsewhere. I too want us to be doing better than just "best of the rest", and doing it with style, but I believe it is probably unrealistic expectation with our pitiful budget and the constraints imposed. It will always be one step forward with the occasional 2 backward, when the gamble doesn't come off....... Despite this, Moyes has repeatedly hit that glass ceiling. Has he the ability to take us beyond that point? No-one knows, because he's never really had the resources to work with.
11 Posted 01/10/2010 at 19:32:00
With all the usual caveats ... IMHO etc.
12 Posted 01/10/2010 at 19:38:12
I do admire and respect David Moyes, I just dont feel that the club are progressing under him. we make the same mistakes season after season. I am confident our form will improve and we will finish 7th or 8th, and all of the journalists will be singing Moyes' praises again, and then next season we can look forward to the whole rollercoaster ride all over again.
in a nutshell I am frustrated that Moyes has the potential to take us to the next level, but never quite seems to achieve it.
13 Posted 01/10/2010 at 19:14:53
Problem now is that not only, in general, keep clean sheets but we cant score goals either.
This is a formula for disaster. The mere fact that Moyes has in the past, had is share of luck with our defense keeping those clean sheets, and the odd goal going in, that was at the time really good because we all thought that this was a stop gap for something much better.
We are now witnessing what happens when the manager runs out of luck. Dont forget I'm aware of the budget constraints, but as a guitar player and you break a string in mid song then believe me you have to have a strat (and I had two lol) stratergy, to use the five remaining strings to the best advantage.
For me Moyes seems to have let this lack of finance eat away in his mind. Once we saw a bloke who had no money behind him but come what may, worked out the best stratergy for the chosen 11 on any particulat match.
I see that year on year this has gnored away at his resolve and now he's got his money in his back pocket of BK, he doesn't seem to give a shit as much as he did three or four years ago. Thats it, he's got his dosh, he knows he can't go any further, and dont forget he's older now and more savvy in terms of his own bank balance.
However, having said all that it's the club we are wedded to not the manager, so come on lads, BATTER BIRMINGHAM at the w/end you know it makes sense !
14 Posted 01/10/2010 at 19:47:30
15 Posted 01/10/2010 at 20:35:46
Excellent post. Agree totally.
16 Posted 01/10/2010 at 20:56:45
Moyes tries to move to the next level. has a few teathing problems and just read the rubbish some people start to believe.
Keep the faith, we will climb the league and who knows what will happen. Strange things happen in life.
17 Posted 01/10/2010 at 21:26:59
18 Posted 01/10/2010 at 22:00:57
yet again an excellent and sensible post.
People have short memories.
The directors of this club have done absolutely nothing to move our club forward.
In the main the only funds Moyes has been given have come from player sales (Rooney, McFadden, Johnson, Lescott) and squad reduction.
Yet nevertheless we have achieved 4, 5th(twice) 6th and 7th and 8th over the last 7 years which is not only consistent but better than most of the teams outside of what is considered the "TOP" 4.
I am happy with this..... "Hell No".
Do I want and expect better...."Of course".
But unlike a lot of supporters I cannot see beyond Moyes while we have "Black Bill" in charge.
19 Posted 01/10/2010 at 22:31:29
20 Posted 01/10/2010 at 22:32:11
Who would replace him? Well short term O'Neill who at least has flexibilty in his tactics.
Long term with investment maybe Martin Jol or someone of that ilk.
21 Posted 01/10/2010 at 23:08:16
Paul says "If we don't try, we'll never know".
A simple sounding solution, but one I happen to agree with.
I accept completely Moyes has been horribly hampered financially and also accept that the combination of Kenwright/Sky/the PL/the big 4 etc, means we'll never see Everton win another title.
Fine (well NOT fine obviously but..realistic).
I will always be grateful to Moyes for waking us from our Walter Smith-induced stupor and accept that at the time he arrived, we had found exactly the right man for 'the job'.
However (again as Paul suggests) when does this end?
When does something (anything) become stale?
I have seen enough of Moyes to know that he has a strong Presbyterian side (philosophically speaking).
Safety first, second and third.
The result is that we're being asked to accept the prospect of no trophies AND dull, uninspiring, negative, predictable football.
Maybe it simply boils down to 'types' (supporters and managers)
I have stated before that I believe 'shifty chancer' is in Harry Redknapp's DNA, the same way as 'cautious' is in Moyes.
In most walks of 'real life' this would give Moyes the edge.
In football however, I believe the shifty chancer probably has a better chance of 'success' than the cautious.
And even if neither of them win, shifty chancer football will inevitably be more exciting to watch.
And right now, that's all I'm really after.
Personally, I'm at the stage now where I'd accept almost anyone who indicated that the game should be played on the deck, at pace.
As with Moyes, I wouldn't be expecting to win anything, but it'd be nice to see the occasional bit of action that helped keep your hands warm on a winter's afternoon.
Surely that is not an unrealistic wish.
22 Posted 01/10/2010 at 23:38:14
Thing is, there are quite a few people unwilling to see the trouble we are in, unprepared to accept that Moyes is ultimately responsible and such.
Why blame Billy Liar and his cronies when it's down to Moyes and his equally useless side kick, Steve Round?
Realistically, this team has played beyond its ability for so long now, that it's coming back to bite Moyes. I mean, c'mon... for years now (8½) they have continuously been played out of position, we still have the same old regime in place that would work in the Championship but not in the Premier League ? certainly not to get 5th or 6th.
It amuses me that some people think this is actually success to constantly finish 5th or 6th every single season, getting twated out of Europe by half decent sides and failing every season in cups we used to be kings of.
People are afraid of change and won't do a thing. Some seem to think if we pretend the problem doesn't exist it will go away... and yet there are others who seem to think, no matter what we do, nothing will change.
If you do nothing, then indeed nothing will change; but for us 'realists' its time for a change, we need replacements for Round and Moyes. They can shove their negative football. We'll never win a single thing under this man, and don't ever be deluded or stupid enough to think, if Moyes was given more money, things would be different. This season is what we really are, according to Moyes.
23 Posted 02/10/2010 at 00:06:05
I can't believe you haven't been excited at all at any games over the past 8½ years, or even the past year alone. We managed to beat all the top dogs just last season, and quite often with some style too, to the point that many were tipping us top 4 contenders. I can't help think that the "style" gripe is really "result"-led, to be honest.
Despite everything, I've even seen us play some decent stuff this season, outplaying some of our opponents, but at the end of the day the mood is always dominated by the result... and we have been toothless. Just a fraction of those numerous opportunities taken would've completely changed that outlook, and no-one would be even mentioning style, or 4-5-1 on here.
I think the reason for most of our deficiencies lies as much, if not more, with being one of the lowest nett spenders in the league year after year, than it does on Moyes's presbyterian footballing philosophy...... Redknapp might be having his "chancer's" moment now, but it's taken him long enough to get ahead of Moyes and at what cost? And he's not going to win any leagues either.
24 Posted 02/10/2010 at 02:05:27
Basically I don't think I'm getting my money's worth from Everton Football Club.
Plus some of our best/most exciting performances seem to have come in games where Moyes has had little choice in selection due to injury/suspension.
Anyway as I suggest, this appears to be an issue that each supporter sees differently, due to the fact that each supporter has different expectations.
Moyes is not fulfilling mine and I can't see that changing.
Consequently, I'd prefer to see someone or something fresh.
25 Posted 02/10/2010 at 02:36:38
26 Posted 02/10/2010 at 03:50:11
27 Posted 02/10/2010 at 04:41:28
28 Posted 02/10/2010 at 04:08:53
There are lots of posters on here who reject Moyes because he plays '4-5-1'. We don't - we play 4-4-1-1. Very often Cahill plays the second striker role, which is adaptable. How many teams play 4-4-2 from the outset? Very few...even fewer do it successfully. Where Moyes has let himself down is not adding pace to our team especially at right mid. However I trust Moyes to get it right.
Very few high profile managers would want the Everton job as they'd have no money to change the squad.
29 Posted 02/10/2010 at 04:43:50
We had a moment, a brief, brief moment under Big Joe.
Other than that between about '92 and the spring of 2002 we were not the Everton that I grew up supporting. Season after season of shit, shit, shit. We were the pathetic drunks of the league, barely holding on to our status card and seemingly propelled to survival by the weight of past glories alone.
One man pulled us out of the ten-year bender that ended with us pissing all over ourselves in a gutter on Teeside.
He drives me crazy at times. The rigidity of formation, the stale tactics and the predictable substitutions are but three elements of what make me yell at the tv on match day. But he's so Everton now that I wouldn't trade him for anyone.
I reserve the right to take all this back after tomorrow's match.
30 Posted 02/10/2010 at 08:50:03
That leaves 32 games to get 52 pts...1.6 pts per game.
This months games will give a better idea on how we will go to do that.
So I will put your Polyanna optimism, long my you have it, on hold, until Halloween. As Yoda might say...unconvinced I remain.
31 Posted 02/10/2010 at 09:39:00
It's a bit like Pareto's law, he's got us 80% of the way to where we want to be and can't quite crack that magic final 20. Whether thats down to funds or his ability will be an unanswerable debate until he gets some cash, which he's not going to get so the question is.
Is there a manager that can take us further than 80% with the assets Moyes has at his disposal?
I think the answer undoubtedly is yes, but trying to find him will be an unqualified gamble with some pretty unpalatable consequences should we get it wrong.
I'm all for taking risks but haven't a clue who that man is so I'm a bit unwilling to do so - especially at the expense of EFC.
Sean - I've been scratching around trying to find a term opposite to "Apologist" and appearently it's "Polemic".
I'd love to see a) the "Polemics" suggestions for a replacement and b) their reaction when their man took us down. No doubt they'd be running around, wailing, waggling hands in the air screaming "Fucking BK!!!! Fucking (whoever the new man was)!!! Fucking bollocks!!!!!" and reflecting on how they'd always thought Moyes had done a great job and had never been one of the ones wanting to get rid of him in the first place.
Us football fans after all are famed for having the memories of goldfish and a vast collection of rose-tinted glasses.
32 Posted 02/10/2010 at 12:30:42
Calling for Moyes to go is one thing, but naming a potential replacement who would do better is another.
I love the mood swings of Toffeeweb throughout the week. Anger, depression and recrimination in the days following a game, leading to mounting optimism before the next fixture. The dizzying highs and lows of supporting Everton.
Let's hope that we are all getting carried away after winning easily at Birmingham and spanking Liverpool 10-0.
33 Posted 02/10/2010 at 11:30:22
There's the rub........ "money's worth".
If I'm honest, I can probably count on one hand the number of seasons I've really had my money's worth (out of nearly 40).
Converesly, the club (and many other commentators) would have to say they have had more than their money's worth out of Moyes. Is that good enough for my aspirations? Not at all..... Nowhere near in fact. I would dearly love to have domestic and European championships galore.... but it's almost certainly never going to happen at our current levels of expenditure.
However, Moyes has managed that expenditure, upped the ante, and has added value almost continuously. There will come a point (and you're arguing it is now), when the question of if or not it is the end of the line for him, and if he's taken us as far as he can, either because he's reached his personal limits, or the club (in it's current guise) has hit it's own ceiling.
Personally, I still think it's more a case of the latter, regardless of the number of errors of judgement people have highlighted. Moyes' relative success alone has been hiding the real decay for years...... and at the first sign of the cracks, we all want to sack the guy desperately applying the filler. Of course you may be right, and he and/or his methods may have actually reached his limit... I'm not convinced that's the case, and would be wary of parting with him.
34 Posted 02/10/2010 at 14:01:08
I don't like Wenger as, like Moyes, he's stubborn and now his tactics have been found out his team have struggled. His bleating about finances is completely ridiculous considering like intelligent managers do they sell players to fund more essential purchases. He kept Arteta and a player that is completely useless in central midfield.
Moyes has got rid of 2 strikers who, while they didn't set the world alight, at least AJ and Vaughany gave 100% when they played. He has failed to get rid of players that are completely useless like Osman and Distin who don't even try. Moyes will never satisfy and large element of our support but we'll have to see what happens come 3 o'clock.
35 Posted 02/10/2010 at 14:06:09
The fact that he achieved all these with the same tactics in the past does not mean that these tactics will remain successful forever. As stated in The Art of War, a general cannot keep sticking to the same strategies and tactics all the time. Application must fit the situation. Our team is no longer made up of a bunch of journeymen footballers who compensate in pluck and sweat what they lack in skill. We now have players who are capable of playing football on the deck but why are we still hoofing it up? Why are we still playing without real pace on the flanks (especially the right one)? Why are we still playing one striker up front against the likes of Wolves and Newcastle? Why are we rushing until the end of the transfer season to get players? (I blame this on Kenwright rather than Moyes). Why do we have so many centre midfielders? Why didn't Moyes spend money on a fast winger and a decent striker when he has it? Why does he like to play players out of position? Moyes has to be held accountable for the mistakes he made.
36 Posted 02/10/2010 at 14:47:03
I agree but don't you just feel if we'd have had a budget in the summer to get Donovan or even Bellamy that we wouldnt be in this position now?
Despite the lack of a RM, we're playing reasonable football, just not converting the chances and conceding silly goals.That is down to the players and their quality.
Moyes has been dealt the quality he has got while even Woy managing a club massively in debt is given a budget to buy top quality players.
37 Posted 02/10/2010 at 14:55:07
Earl did not put any money in to help Kenwright.
In fact not one of the directors has put a penny into the club and have no plans to do so.
Also it is widely rumoured that Earl is just fronting Green's shareholding.
I accept Moyes has his faults but what manager doesnt.
Jol and O'neill both produced inferior results to Moyes in the prem despite spending more on players so I stick by my opinion that while Kenwright is in charge I cannot think of a better manager.
38 Posted 02/10/2010 at 17:57:39
It's not a case of Moyes bashing ? It's simply that I think his tactics have become too cautious and predictable. I don't think he is able to get the best out of our squad, especially the creative players. That's not based on our first 6 matches ? it's what I have thought for about a year. I don't understand why he is so fond of playing 4-5-1 in virtually very match. I can understand it against the likes of Arsenal ? but against Wigan, Wolves and Stoke City and other such teams!!!
If David Moyes is more adventurous with his tactics and less predictable, I will be more than happy to have been proved wrong. I will be overjoyed!!!
39 Posted 02/10/2010 at 18:05:26
It's ironic that Spurs fans I know consider that things have calmed down in this respect now the arch wheeler-dealer, Hawwy, is in charge as he used to have a revolving door at Pompey ( with a postbox for brown envelopes next to it - allegedly ahem ).
These people could not function on a million pounds a transfer window budget which is all BK can give them.
40 Posted 02/10/2010 at 18:31:12
I`m not an Everton fan but I`m desperate to hear 40,000 fans sing a new song about David Moyes in the style of "Bad Bays":
"Bad Boys, Bad Boys,
What you gonna do,
what you gonna do
when they come for you?"
I want to hear:
"David Moyes, David Moyes,
what you gonna do,
what you gonna do
if he doesn`t pick you?
David Moyes, David Moyes".
So come on you True Blues... somebody please start this one off ? I think it`s a cracker!!
41 Posted 02/10/2010 at 22:34:47
42 Posted 03/10/2010 at 00:13:29
This quote is an example of how outsiders view our situation:
Everton, who were unfortunate not to gain that first win at Fulham last weekend, move out of the bottom three and have plenty of time to challenge for the top-six place which is their annual target.
Joe Lovejoy, Guardian.
it is the threadbare nature of Liverpool's performances that has come as a shock. Scouse traditionalists may insert a joke at this point, to the effect that as long as Everton are even lower in the table Liverpool will never feel the situation is intolerable, but no one is laughing at that one now. Everton are a strong side with a mighty team spirit and will delight their fans more often than they will displease them this season. No one is calling for David Moyes to be sacked. Everton will be all right.
Paul Wilson, Guardian.
Think on it.
43 Posted 03/10/2010 at 00:30:57
44 Posted 03/10/2010 at 12:49:20
"Established" was probably the keyword. Things generally don't become that overnight, or for no reason.
45 Posted 03/10/2010 at 14:55:12
And no one ever refers to themselves on here as true blues.
Why are you here?
46 Posted 03/10/2010 at 20:01:53
The last time I checked, the manager?s prerogative was to get as many points as possible not entertain the fans with champagne football.
If you don't feel you are ?getting your money?s worth? why not either enact your right to go and watch someone else, or support the team (including the manager) regardless of whether or not you are personally gratified by their brand of football.
Wining about the manager who has brought us more (relative) success and stability than any other in the last 25 years, when there is clearly no legitimate alternative in our current financial situation, is selfish, nonsensical, and frankly, a bit of a downer.
Ps. Steve #40 Your cracker of a song doesn't really make any sense. Have you suffered a head injury? Has your medicine cupboard run dry? Or could you be a Shite fan?
47 Posted 03/10/2010 at 22:27:06
48 Posted 03/10/2010 at 23:13:14
49 Posted 03/10/2010 at 18:03:58
50 Posted 04/10/2010 at 14:47:01
In the last quarter of a century, we have won precisely one major trophy by my reckoning with an average league placing well below what we regularly achieve now, so I would argue that the regular qualification for Europe achieved during Moyes? tenure could be considered relative success over that period.
We can all dream about winning the league and playing like Barcelona but the pragmatists among us (which fortunately include those at the sharp end in the club) know for a fact that there is no legitimate alternative to Moyes which will positively affect our position under the current financial constraints and therefore his removal will not bring success or sexy football, more likely it will bring Sam Allardyce or Tony Pullis.
Wanting trophies and attractive football is all very well but it?s about as much good as wanting a Rolls-Royce without the means to pay for it.
I personally dread the day that David Moyes decides to leave our club and we return to being relegation strugglers alongside other clubs on our budget ? let?s not force his hand.
Let?s also remember when DM was linked with Aston Villa and other clubs he has always immediately reiterated his loyalty to Everton, it?s a pity it?s not reciprocated by some fans with unrealistic delusions of grandeur.
And lastly, the reason we are having a debate about attractive football and trophies is because over the last 8 years (or however long it is) David Moyes has gradually increased our expectations so that we aspire to achieve rather than not to be relegated.. For a neurotic few a couple of bad results and all that is forgotten.
51 Posted 04/10/2010 at 17:51:09
Although our average Leage placings under Moyes 8 complete seasons look good compared to the 8 complete seasons prior to his arrival, they aren't as good as the first 8 seasons of your 25 year window, when our average was actually one position higher. Is that "relative success"?
What is ""relative success" anyway? To my mind you have success, i.e. wining things, failure, i.e. relegation, & all the rest is varyiing degrees of mediocrity - which is what we have under Moyes. "Relative success" seems to me a weasel-word expression to avoid saying 'mediocre'.
You don't actually "know for a fact that there is no legitimate alternative to Moyes which will positively affect our position under the current financial constraints and therefore his removal will not bring success or sexy football" - that's just your opinion & to parade your opinion as fact is deceitful & delusional. You may dread the departure of David Moyes, but it'll happen one day & Everton will survive his loss - who knows maybe we'll even thrive.
Moyes was plucked from the lower leagues & turned into a highly paid Premier League manager - Everton have set him up for life. However, although you may consider his display of loyalty commendable, I'm not aware that any club has actually approached Everton & tried to noegotiate for Moyes to be released from his contract - perhaps he's not rated as highly by other clubs as he is at Everton.
I do agree that by achieving more than such as Allardyce, Moyes does in some way make himself more open to criticism, if he appears to fall short. However, I'm not sure about your couple of bad results comment, the current situation is probably relatively short-term & I would only advocate replacing Moyes mid-season if he seemed incapable of ensuring our Premier League survival. In the long run Moyes must be replaced if we have any ambition to win anything again, as I don't believe he is capable of delivering success (actual, not "relative") & I suspect this would still be the case even if he had a larger budget to work with, unless he can recapture the boldness & imagination he seemed to have when he first arrived.
Saying that other people are "neurotic" & have "delusions of grandeur" just because they disagree with you & the other "pragmatists" "at the sharp end in the club" (do you drink in the same pub?) is just self-righteous bluster. Especially when on the one hand you claim Moyes is so good that he's raised everybody's expectations at the club & on the other you claim that it's unrealistic for people to have those expectations !?!?
52 Posted 05/10/2010 at 13:02:22
The point I?m trying to make is that it?s unlikely in my opinion (not a fact as you correctly suggest but rather gratuitously deliberate over), given the financial and commercial restrictions in place at Everton football club that another manager could achieve the results (not relative success) that Moyes has, in the current economic climate.
Hopefully that is concise and well caveated enough for you that we may debate the points and not the rhetoric.
I will concede that Moyes infuriates me occasionally with his tactics and substitutions but I also concede when he does, that I do not have the benefit of the knowledge of minor injuries, player personality, job roles given (etc) that he benefits from as the manager.
My point about neurosis was not because others disagree with my opinion but that they are so quick to react with calls to sack Moyes and wasn?t necessarily referring to present company (posters) but based on worst case observations here and elsewhere.
I?ll treat it as a moral victory (hey, I?ll take any kind of victory this season) that you?ve extended Moyes?s stay of execution for six months, and spend the rest of your post spinning my quotes and arguing semantics.. Any bites?
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