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Our Inferiority Complex

By GJ Butler :  18/10/2010 :  Comments (69) :
OK, I'm setting myself up to be slaughtered here and I don't want to rain on the derby day victory parade, but one incident just didn't sit with me right yesterday.

Tim Cahill took a free kick inside the Liverpool half with two or three minutes left and booted the ball out into the corner for a throw-in, rugby style. I was absolutely infuriated. It was a clear sign of TIm Cahill proving our inferiority complex against Liverpool. Whether you like it or not, it was a pure sign that we don't believe we are better than them. We were happy to waste time as opposed to going for the jugular.

Now I know the usual responses will follow ? some people are never happy, etc, and maybe they're valid ? but if Cahill did that at home, say, to Blackburn, or Bolton, he'd be booed surely?!

Here are our rivals, on the floor, the worst Liverpool side in god knows how long, we played them off the park for 60 minutes, and then we stopped. And then resorted to this. At home! I can't help feeling we missed an opportunity to actually thump them. And I mean 4-0. Easily.

But no. Despite being the better side all over the park, we still lacked the self-belief to go and hammer them. Instead, we spent the last 20 minutes practically camped on the edge of our own area with the odd long ball break away when we should have been knocking the ball around to our cheers while they chased shadows.

I know. I know. There's just no pleasing some people...

Reader Comments

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Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
1   Posted 18/10/2010 at 13:39:20

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Agree 100% GJ. The last 30 minutes was nerve-wracking despite the "comfortable" lead, and our manner of play was poor... summed up by that dradful free-kick.

But it was a great win and all such sins will be forgotten!
David Price
2   Posted 18/10/2010 at 13:39:26

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So you are expecting to be slated for this article already. Bit of a one sided debate on the way it seems.
All i can think of on your part GJ is that your S&M session didn't go to plan and you have opted for a verbal bashing instead.
Good luck with that mate..
Chris Hockenhull
3   Posted 18/10/2010 at 13:42:59

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Absolutely agree with you GJ. I thought exactly the same when it happened. Dont get me wrong absolutley delighted with that first half start/ Coleman gaining confidence/ Yak's muscle man approach etc etc ...but yes we stood down and invited then on to us (which could have horribly backfired but didnt).

But I've always always really wanted us to put them to the sword and going for it big time for a 4/5 goal win. One that would really be remembered long long after. Still, I'm not (really) complaining but we've got to start believing in ourselves more when this happens.

Thomas Christensen
4   Posted 18/10/2010 at 13:42:29

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I was surprised we didn't try and keep possession with that freekick. The resulting throw in did lead to an attack. Sure Moyes will be on it.
Julian Wait
5   Posted 18/10/2010 at 13:45:55

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I too was disappointed we didn't put them 20th and bottom on goal difference, but I and most other Evertonians would have taken 2-0 before the game :-)

But then I didn't think Liverpool could play that badly again. However, I think the team were exhausted by the 80th minute. And Cahill knew it. Regardless, I don't think it was a good thing to do, we'd have been better playing around the ball on the deck ...
Tony J Williams
6   Posted 18/10/2010 at 13:46:19

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Just to confirm GJ we won. Enjoy it instead of picking up on insignificant details. We were 2-0 up at the time and I was actually a little angry at the time but I got over it, as we were 2-0 up at the time... did I mention we were 2-0 up at the time.

So a booted clearance in injury time.....when we are 2-0 up means we know we are not as good as a team we are comprehensively beating 2-0? Strange reasoning fella.
James Cadwaladr
7   Posted 18/10/2010 at 13:48:44

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But they were that shit that we may as well as used territory tactics a la Rugby, they were only ever going to shunt it back to us anyway.

I was more interested about it than infuriated. I don't think it was the right thing to do but I think Cahill thought, right let's pen them in, we'll be snapping at their heels near their touchline and will waste some time, they will either clear it or we will get a corner, free kick etc.
Aiden Jones
8   Posted 18/10/2010 at 14:25:09

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Pretty minor point to pick up on from a great win. Also to suggest we could have/should have won 4 - 0 easily is fantasy. The first half efforts in pressing/harassing them clearly took its toll in the second half where the energy levels were not there. We could not play the first half tempo for 90 mins. Pushing on for more goals leaving us up open for counter attack would have been dangerous.
Jay Harris
9   Posted 18/10/2010 at 14:19:56

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I can understand your feeling GJ and it is most unusual to see that done but if you listen to his interview afterwards he says that some players shouldn't have been playing because of injury but got strapped up and were running on empty at that point.
Gerry Quinn
10   Posted 18/10/2010 at 14:26:56

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Can see both sides of the argument here. Yesterday during the match forum when Cahill kicked the ball into the corner I actually commented "Cahill WTF"! My comment was based on the concept that there was no Everton player anywhere near that corner.

1. Surely if you want to waste time you put the ball into the corner area where someone like Beckford will run to get hold of it and waste time.

2. Kicking it to return possession to the Shite - albeit a throw-in right on their goal-line - seems a "shorter" version of time-wasting.

Didn't make sense to me at the time, but I'm sure Cahill knew what he wanted to do; strange... but there you go, who cares now? The result was brilliant, the workrate was exemplary, the fans were fantastic AND the faces on Thug-G and Moaner-C were utterly priceless, let's have more of that blues, you made us proud......

Seamus Murphy
11   Posted 18/10/2010 at 14:32:26

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Of course they have an inferior complex. They haven't beaten them since 2006 and the wins against the so called big clubs have been all too rare in recent years. But this year we have beaten them, United and Chelsea at home so things are beginning to change. We will shed the inferiority complex when we are regularly beating these teams and thankfully that is starting to happen.
Tony McNulty
12   Posted 18/10/2010 at 14:28:21

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Interesting post. I didn?t particularly agree with what he did, I don?t necessarily like it (although I found it interesting given that I cannot offhand remember it happening before), and I don?t even think it necessarily a good tactic. However, I think if anything it reflected a superiority complex: we are so in charge here, so professional, so sure of ourselves, that we?ll give you clowns the possession (albeit in the corner) on our terms.

I think the net effect was even further to demoralise the Shite. And I wouldn?t mind betting that one or two other teams will try this tactic in future.

Rationally, is it a good tactic in most circumstances? Probably not. I seem to recall Jack Charlton once saying that the last thing you want to do when you are running down the clock is to give the opposition the chance to get it to their goalkeeper. However, yesterday I think it just drove another nail into their sad little coffin.

By the way, it is a sad reflection that so many people on this site feel they have to preface their views with, "I'll probably get slammed for this but .. " What did that Scottish philosopher Hume say? "Truth comes about through disagreement amongst friends." Cue references to other Scottish philosophers...
Guy Hastings
13   Posted 18/10/2010 at 14:56:20

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As Clough once told his back line of Nish, McFarland, Todd and Thomas, 'if you don't learn how to get rid of the ball with a minute to go, I'll get some 4th Division lad in to show you how it's done' or words to that effect.
Nelaj Behajiha
14   Posted 18/10/2010 at 15:18:02

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Got to agree I thought that after our 2nd goal we made little or no attempt to attack. We got in decent positions yet kept on giving the ball away we've won the battle yet we haven't won the war I'd settle for a point at Spurs at hopefully we'll be able to move on. On another point has anyone pointed out how shit Liverpool fans are I don't think I heard more than 1 song from them in the whole game. I heard their pathetic attempt at YNWA. Super Kev got a brilliant reception. We should of got that Lloyd Jones to come out with a USA flag.
Lee Hind
15   Posted 18/10/2010 at 15:37:11

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We beat them. Easily.

Therefore Sir, your argument is invalid.

Where they are concerned, only beating them matters.
Ed Staunton
16   Posted 18/10/2010 at 16:02:06

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Yes it was strange but I think the fact that we lost 3/5ths of our midfield was more important to the fact that we lost control.
Ray Robinson
17   Posted 18/10/2010 at 16:15:09

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I didn't like it - any more than I like the tactic of going to the corner flag and keeping the ball in the quadrant. We were knackered and the importance of the match immense. Therefore, I'll forgive him!
James Von Willis
18   Posted 18/10/2010 at 16:29:46

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Original poster was way off the mark on this one. Timmy knew the game was up, he did it to piss off the Liverpool players and fans.
Beautiful, I loved it.
James Martin
19   Posted 18/10/2010 at 16:38:04

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It's good people have these views. At least this shows we aren't content with a 2-0 win and being the better side for most of the game, quite rightly we want to show that we are a lot better than them and stuff them 4 or 5, that's what sets us aside as Evertonians.

You ask any of that shower the same thing and all they care about is the result and whatever it takes to get it. Do you think any of them cared that they were battered home and away last season, that they resorted to fouling us off the park and parking the bus in both games?

They didn't give one because they won both and they know alter on that their propaganda media machine can spin it to fool everyone into thinking they deserved it. Even Hodgson seems to have been at the Rafa school of how to do a press conference, if you don't win at least perpetuate the myth that Liverpool are and always will be latently superior. Sometimes its better not to read too much into who deserved it who played better blah blah. They certainly couldn't give one.

Put our high standards aside for one game and just take the good win and the 3 points. As much as I'd like to see us play them off the park at Anfield and win 5-0, if it turns out we defend the whole game get a scruffy offside handballed foul on the keeper goal in the 98th minute and win 1-0 then I wouldn't care.

Kevin Gillen
20   Posted 18/10/2010 at 16:57:56

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Good point! I was really annoyed with how we played in the last 30 minutes inviting them on to us like we did. I know they hardly looked like scoring but if they had got a goal, with Arteta, Heitinga and Osman all off the pitch and a midfield of Coleman, Neville, Cahill and Bilyaletdinov, it could have been embarassing. Neville should take some responsibility and try and get us up the pitch and we should still be looking to pass and move. Not a good example to the kids!! Still - so glad we beat them - much to be happy about!!!
David Price
21   Posted 18/10/2010 at 17:38:42

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Kev, you contradict yourself slightly. We finished a game well won 2-0, without Arteta,Osman, Pienaar, Fellaini, Heitinga and Rodwell on the pitch. Thats some midfield personnel to do without and try and boss a game for a whole 90 minutes. I think we can excuse them this once. Add Cahill running on empty from his Australia journey and yeah it's understandable.

I just don't think we had enough left to keep the tempo going and for the last 15 mins we had more chances than them with breakaways. From minutes 60-75 was probably our weakest part of the game.

Tougher game ahead next week, which will see us trying to play more possession and counter attack a very offensive Spurs side.

Larry Boner
22   Posted 18/10/2010 at 17:42:41

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I have always thought and always will, that the average Everton supporter understands the minutiae of the game of football better than any other average supporter, certainly better than the glory hunters of Liverpool, Chelsea, Man Utd etc.

For the last 30 mins of the game we had NO midfield, Fellaini, Heitinga, Osman, Arteta, off the field, with Cahill playing on one leg for the last 15 min and Yakubu knackered, Peinaar, Rodwell, Saha and Anichebe unavailable, yet we still restricted an almost full strength Liverpool to long shots.

We still made better chances than Liverpool late on, how can anyone criticise Cahill for anything he did or attempted in this game when he was head and shoulders above anyone else on the field, possibly apart from Distin and Jagielka, is totally beyond me ? he epitomises everything an Everton player should be, committed, honest, strong and able to play above his god-given ability at will, in short a typical Aussie sportsman, but above all a REAL Everton player.
To finish on a famous quote "I hate you, Butler"
PS ? I don't really !

David Hallwood
23   Posted 18/10/2010 at 18:26:21

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I don't think it's an inferiority complex GJ, it's just a Moyes tactic that when we go into a lead, instead of controlling the ball higher up the pitch and waiting for the quick break to really kill them off, like Man U have done for years, DM's team(s) retreat back to the 18 yard line safe in the knowledge (allegedly) that they can defend whatever's thrown at them.

Over the years, I've seen so many games with squeaky bum moments, when we should've been out of sight; it?s also one of the reasons why 4 & 5 nils have been comparatively rare.
Andy Crooks
24   Posted 18/10/2010 at 18:49:24

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David, you are right as is the original poster. Yet, I was still happy to see it. Liverpool were there to be thrashed but I would settle for 2-0 in every derby for the foreseeable future.
Trevor Lynes
25   Posted 18/10/2010 at 19:21:12

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I fully agree with the article and expressed my own dismay at surrendering possesion almost up to the edge of our area in the 2nd was inviting long distance shots and lets face it nerves were being shown by our fans during the last 20 mins or so...Arsenal would have taken them for four or five and so would Chelsea....we tried to spoil after our 2nd goal and really there was no need to.
This is not a major complaint from a fan...its a valid point and we should have continued to play as we did in the first half and not just invite trouble.
Jon Cox
26   Posted 18/10/2010 at 19:17:19

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After all that I would be happy with a point at spurs.

I actually enjoyed after the game the fact that the shite attacked us as they did in the second half. It means that our defence get the practise that they need to become the wall of blue.

I'm into this because at the Lane we'll need it.

Europe for spurs will give us an advantage with the fitness of our squad.

Tactics will be the old Moyes situation. As Davey said "Back to basics" If we have this altitude and have the gonads we had agsinst the shite then a draw is the worst we will do.

What a time for the Yak to get his hatrick.
GJ shut up about Timmy. That overhead kick at the Bridge purlease get a life.

Twenty minutes into the second half on Sunday we were running on empty. The rs new they had to at least do something positive. They didn't know that they were also on empty, they just knew they had a bollocking comming once in the changing room.

GJ shut up about
Denis Richardson
27   Posted 18/10/2010 at 20:06:29

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It was a bit strange but keep in mind it was only a couple of minutes from the end and the team was knackered. Although I think it would have actually used up more time to pass it around the midfield and then hoof it into touch!

Just enjoy the win - I would have taken 1-0 at the start let alone 2-0!
Howard Don
28   Posted 18/10/2010 at 20:20:11

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A bit odd I'll agree, but talk about looking for negatives when the guy sweated blood for the cause and covered every inch of the pitch for 94 mins. Oh and then there was the small matter of a great goal.

There's just no pleasing some people...

Paul Loins
29   Posted 18/10/2010 at 20:27:08

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Lets keep things in perspective. We won against the poorest liverpool side in living memory and we made it hard for ourselves by defending in our half for much of second half. We will have to have players playing up to that standard every week before I get carried away with this win. Also we need our manager to put out more positive formations on a regular basis.
Gary Brereton
30   Posted 18/10/2010 at 20:37:19

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I don't want to get involved in criticising the author of this article. All I will say in response to his comments are, Tim was probably knackered at the time he 'hoofed' the ball into the corner. What GJ Butler has to remember is that, Heitinga, Arteta & Osman were all taken off with a large part of the second half to still be played. That was our midfield; Moyesie had to 'pad out' the midfield with makeshifts and we still had little problem dealing with Torres, Gerrard, et al.
James Stewart
31   Posted 18/10/2010 at 23:31:44

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I would agree with this post. It was slightly embarrassing.
Kevin Hudson
32   Posted 18/10/2010 at 23:42:27

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Wrong. It was done to wind them up, and drive the nail further into the coffin.

A smart thing to do.
Andy Kay
33   Posted 19/10/2010 at 00:14:44

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Have to agree, the last few minutes in a derby are always horrible when we're winning and giving them any possesion is a nightmare. Remember Van Persie's last-minute equaliser a couple of years ago for Arsenal when we took the ball to the corner flag 1-0 up only to lose it and give them possesion to score. I was livid. On this point, remember the feeling of AJ's 3rd in the 2006 derby? the best way to kill a game off late is to score again!!!!!
Art Jones
34   Posted 19/10/2010 at 01:39:22

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We were 2-0 up against a team that we very rarely beat, we'd only won one other game this season . The players who started the game were running on empty. There are games further down the line we can go for the jugular; this one, a 2-0 win will do quite nicely thank you. Mission accomplished.
Derek Thomas
35   Posted 19/10/2010 at 02:25:53

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Tim did the right thing, or at least to my mindgiven the circumstances;

a) A couple of mins to go

b) 2-0 up.

c) well in our own half.

His Options;

1) A short ball to a blue, runs the risk of giving it away in your own half (see a above)

2) A long ball down the middle (S.O.P.?) which, on average meand to their GK or defender...end result, back down our throats...more on this later

3) what he actually did, it's just a nother version of the old time wasting tactic, get it up to their corner flag, ala Jimmy Gabriel in 66

The benefits are;

i) they have to get the ball back ( it all adds up)

ii) 2 above does not apply.

iii) we get out from under the cosh and move up field for the throw.

Down there for scoring Tim and up there for thinking...SPOT ON.

The main problem to me is the poor way we defend on the edge of our own box / corners

With EVEYBODY!! back.

They don't have everybody forward ffs, but they could if we don't have 2 out of the box ' keeping them honest '

One on the edge of the box for the short clearance, say 5 to 10yds. and one on the half way line to either get the ball and hold it up himself, must admit the Yak had a good game but was obviously working to orders in coming back too far. Or doing enough to stop their CB's having a free punt back into our box.
Michael Brien
36   Posted 19/10/2010 at 07:13:09

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Given the result it is perhaps nit picking to criticise Cahill's free kick.. For me more of an issue was the fact that for the last 25 or so minutes we seemed to let them have time and space on the ball and they came at us. For most of the 1st half we had them penned in their own half and we denied them time and space.

Was Liverpool having more of the ball in the last 25 minutes the result of tactics or fatigue ? Does Moyes instill in the team an attitude of " if we don't concede we have won the game ?" So we present 2 banks of 4 and say try and get past that. A dangerous tactic I feel, because at 2-0 they only have to get a goal back and suddenly we are hanging on.

Perhaps the change in the nature of the game was caused by fatigue. We did play a very high tempo game in the first half. Our "defending" was very much in the Liverpool half.

In some ways it was very similar to the 3-0 win. They seemed to have a lot of the ball in the second half in that match. Given our recent record against them and the way any luck that has been going has seemed to go their way, I would say that it is only natural that a kind of "David and Goliath" mentality exists. But as Seamus (11) states once we get a few more wins against the likes of the Sky 4 or 5 or 6 is it - then we will be more confident.

On a side issue isn't it great to see all the headlines about Rooney !!? As an Everonian now living in Lincoln I can well recall the jibes from Man United supporting friends & work colleagues when they signed him from us in 2004. " Just a nursery club for United". It's great to see the "boot on the other foot". Closer to home I hope the Derby win proves to be a kick start for our season and that Liverpool continue to struggle. We keep hearing how loyal these Kopites are - lets see how they are when they have some seasons of struggling in the bottom half of the table.
Peter Bourke
37   Posted 19/10/2010 at 07:54:47

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Kevin Hudson (32) Spot On.
Thats exactly why he did it. It's commonly called rubbing salt into the wound.
John Barnes
38   Posted 19/10/2010 at 08:43:06

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A more puzzling tactic for me was Baines taking a corner on the right in the last 10 minutes. And yes they did break down our left directly from it, but , as everyone has said, they were such shite they could still be banging long shots into the seats at the Gwaldys St end this morning.
Dick Fearon
39   Posted 19/10/2010 at 10:03:34

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Only miserable ignorant gits would accuse Tim of having an inferiority complex particularly where it comes to a load of over hyped RS tripe.
This is the same Tim who was often seen patting supposedly hard nut Carragher on the head as if he was a puppy.

This same Tim who was here there and everywhere rubbing their noses in it with obvious enjoyment. The very same Tim who more than once stopped Stevie GBH in his tracks.
The same Tim who more than any other player since Duncan Ferguson RS fans and players have learned to fear and hate.

The same Tim who spent the best part of three days in the past fortnight in transit to and from his beloved Australia. The same Tim who more than any Everton player in the past decade has put his body on the line and always led from the front.
Judging by the strapping he wore Tim was one of our walking, running tackling goal scoring marvels. To dream that Tim in any way feels inferior to anyone let alone the RS ubbish is absolute balderdash.
Only on Toffeeweb could such unwarrented and ridiculous criticsm emanate.

I put this recent criticsm in the same bracket as that classic, HE WOULD BE USELESS IF IT WASN'T FOR HIS GOALS!
GJ Butler
40   Posted 19/10/2010 at 12:20:51

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Well, having sent in the post pretty much 24 hours ago I thought I'd return and see the views of my fellow blues, and if anything, my view of the inferiority complex has only been strengthened.

Yes, three midfield players went off but we were left with Bily, Nev, Cahill & Coleman ? three internationals and a future international. It'll happen to us again ? it's what squads are supposed to be for.

We were playing a side that was beaten at home in their last game to Blackpool and in my view, is the worst Liverpool side in decades. And yet we spent the last half hour defending for our lives due to the fact we were playing liverpool the club, not realising the fact most of those actually wearing the red jersey are rubbish ? Konchesky, Lucas, Maxi?

And all this finished off by a ridiculous free-kick by Cahill. Booting the ball into the corner seen as an act of rubbing salt into the wounds? Doesn't wash with me. As much as I love Cahill, it was embarrassing.

And I ask those who diagree, would you accept it if we were two-nil up against Blackburn or Wigan? If the answer is Yes, then fair enough, we agree to disagree. If the answer is No, there my friends is your inferiority complex.
Michael Brien
41   Posted 19/10/2010 at 12:34:06

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Dick - just think how Tim would have played if he hadn't have been tired from all that travelling !!!!! And as regards the view that he only merits a place because of his goals - Tim Cahill's performance was a masterclass in midfield play - making his prescence felt in their penalty area and when needed, in our penalty area.
Larry Boner
42   Posted 19/10/2010 at 14:33:10

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GJ, I retract my remarks in my my previous reply to your post
As Blakey so famously said "I DO hate you Butler"
But if we keep winning games, I keep saying I hate you, I am sure you will be very happy.
I thought the support was fantastic on Sunday, but I would loved to have heard ringing around the ground -
"You bought the wrong club, you bought the wrong club, fuck off to Boston, you bought the wrong club.
But you cant have everything.
GJ Butler
43   Posted 19/10/2010 at 15:37:43

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Larry, hate is a bit strong! I disagree with your opinion would've sufficed!

But either way, I dont see anything in you're reply that responds to my arguement? Whats you're point? Yes, the crowd on Sunday were great, who said otherwise?

I can only assume your hatred comes from answering my question at the end of post 40 and getting the answer you didnt want? One thing we do agree on, if we keep on winning, I'll be very happy, so hate away my friend. Hate away.
David Price
44   Posted 19/10/2010 at 18:41:09

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GJ, on the buses, just a joke,
you might be too young to remember,<
Good job you aint called Rett or you'd have been totally lost with, frankly my dear i don't give a damn.
Keith O'Brien
45   Posted 19/10/2010 at 22:38:20

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Many thanks for raising this issue GJ. Have to agree 100% that what Cahill done was disgraceful. I replied to this on another forum 'Tim Cahill legend'. YEs he is a legend but when he does things like that he is letting himself and the club down. Did this decision come from the manager or captain? I would love to know. Never in all my years have I seen this happen. It wasnt even the last couple of minutes. So negative it is untrue. It made us look afraid to have a right go at them. Aarrhh so proud but so annoiyed with him.
Peter Bourke
46   Posted 20/10/2010 at 00:39:43

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GJ and Keith.
I'm pretty sure judging by your comments neither of you have played top flight team sport.
The RS players had their heads down and Timmy made them scurry to the corner to quickly take the throw which was humiliating to say the least. Rather than showing Inferiority it was a display of arrogance and distain towards the shower of shite, especially given the little bit of time waisting he did leading up to the kick.
Agree with Dick, there is no way on earth Tim was showing them respect or fear by kicking it out.
Jason Lam
47   Posted 20/10/2010 at 08:59:19

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I actually play a bit of footie every now and then. The freekick by Cahill was a bit of cheek:

We're winning, you're losing. "Go fetch"
Peter Bourke
48   Posted 20/10/2010 at 10:19:07

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Jason, you are spot on the money.
GJ Butler
49   Posted 20/10/2010 at 10:24:15

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Jason, I've played footy now nad then myself, albeit at a shit Sunday league level, and I've witnessed timewasting, but honestly never someone just booting the ball out of play. Never.

Sorry Peter, didn't realise you play top level footy yourself. Can I ask, in all the top level games you've ever watched (or indeed, played in) when did you ever see someone booting the ball into the corner like that? Im open to being corrected but I cant think of one, so to suggest this is 'the done thing' and only those 'in the know' would understand such embarrassing timewasting is ridiculous.

As I've said in both my original post and my follow up response, would you accept it against the likes of Blackburn or Bolton? Nobody has bothered to answer.
Tony McNulty
50   Posted 20/10/2010 at 15:02:46

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Blackpool and Bolton don't have an inflated view of their own capabilities - unlike the Shite.
GJ Butler
51   Posted 20/10/2010 at 15:24:40

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So if we come up against a team with an inflated view of their own capabilities, we blatantly kick the ball away as far from our own goal as possible. To me, all that would acheive is inflating the view of their own capabilities.
Liu Weixian
52   Posted 20/10/2010 at 15:35:02

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I don't get it. Why are people complaining? We beat them comprehensively, didn't we? We were 2-0 up with a few minutes to go. Our players were exhausted from taking the fight to them. Booting the ball to their corner and making them waste time taking the throw-in is a sign of intelligence, and not inferiority. Would you rather we play football in our half, lose it, and concede a goal?

It's good not to feel inferior, but it's just as great not to be overly arrogant!
Tony McNulty
53   Posted 20/10/2010 at 15:39:05

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Just to be clear: I am not entirely sure what was going on here and I refer the Right Honourable Gentleman to my earlier post (#12).

I am not sure I would accept this behaviour in general. However, we have since learned that: (1) our team was knackered and probably replete with injuries; (2) our manager felt happy for the Shite to have the ball, because he did not think they would hurt us (and he was proved correct in this, the Shite were shite). In the light of this, I think it not unlikely that a player might think it a good idea to hoof the ball into the corner, by the Shite fans, dismissively and contemputously. Perhaps players would feel it equates to a nutmeg.

The Shite and their fans seem to see themselves as a superior breed. It is why they make coments about ?small clubs?, ?off to Kirkby, the City?s ours.? Cahill, whose behaviours and gestures are rarely casual (like those of the Aussie cricket team), may well have been sending a message to those self-confessed players of the pink oboe, all dressed in red.

On the other hand, it might just have been a miskick ?
Tony J Williams
54   Posted 20/10/2010 at 15:05:02

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It's still amazing that you are still picking on an irrelevant piece of football.

The game was played for 90+ minutes and instead of basking in the glow of a well earned defeat you have to post a thread having a go at the man of the match.

I know everyone has their opinions and fair play but it's such a ridiculous statement to say booting the ball out to waste time by a player probably going on with an injury shows any kind of inferiority complex and then to say the comments on here back it up.......On the Buses? definitely
GJ Butler
55   Posted 20/10/2010 at 16:23:05

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Tony, my post was about an iferiority complex that was personified by what I saw as an embarrassing free-kick by Cahill. I am not 'still going on' about it - just merely responding to those who have pointed out their own views.

And the one and still only person who took up on my point that we wouldn't accept it against Blackburn/Bolton seemed to me to back up my statement. We did it because they are full of themselves?? Think about it.

Tony J Williams
56   Posted 20/10/2010 at 17:29:53

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He could do it against Accrington Stanley and after the match I wouldn't give it a second thought. I would shout, "What The Feck are you doing?" at the time but after the game the 2-0 scoreline would make me forgive him.

I certainly wouldn't bring it up as an embarrassing moment the next day.
Michael Kenrick
57   Posted 20/10/2010 at 17:43:25

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On the contrary, TJW, I thought it was worth bringing up. Not so much the "inferiority complex" aspect but the typically maddening Moyes philosophy of defending a lead rather than going for it, which is what the crowd was baying for. I firmly believe he has driven this philosophy into all of the players as an article of faith. It worked this time, thank god, and three consecutive clean sheets suggest (touch large piece of wood), we are past the early-season defensive howlers that made this philosophy particularly hollow. But the risk was there on Sunday all the same, and if you did not have a sense of fear each time they attacked... well, you're a stronger man than me!

Yes, he did put on Beckford and apparently went 4-4-2 although the Yak was probably out of gas at that point too.... and Beckford sadly was a hopeless parody of a striker. The last 30 minutes of the game were not particularly fine watching, scoreline aside, and that free-kick epitomised what was going on.

And as for discussing it on here... of course we shall. In fact, aren't you always playing this card? Saying we shouldn't be talking about something? It's a post-match discussion FFS! ? We talk about what went on in the match. If YOU don't want to, then YOU don't have to.
Keith O'Brien
58   Posted 20/10/2010 at 20:13:29

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Peter #46. What has it got to do with weither myself or anybody else plays top flight team sport? This forum is for an expressed opinion. Anyway dont want to waste my time with this but in a quick nut shell, Tim was negative and it was out of character for him clearly. We all seen teams boot the ball down field and clear their lines but on this occasion we had free kick just inside their half with possession. I bet Tim would have been absolutely lambasted if they scored from there and then got back into the game but on this occasion we got away with it. Thank God.
Tony J Williams
59   Posted 21/10/2010 at 09:45:58

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Oh come on now Michael, even when Moyes does something to fit into your criteria for a manager you suggest he is doing something wrong.

A 4-4-2 is an attacking formation according to so many on here yet he does it and you suggest it's a bad move because you don't like Beckford. you put yourself in a position to have a go at him regardless of his decisions (no matter if they are crap or if they effectively win a game)

Yes it's a discussion board but this post in regards to an insignificant stupid free kick by a knackered player in a game we comfortably won and no matter how much you over analyse the free kick, we won comfortably.

It's in the same vein as your post when we had just beaten ManUre 3-1.

Enjoy the win and at least let people enjoy the victory before starting to slag off the man of the match and apparently us fans because we are not up in arms over a daft free kick from Cahill. I see Round is getting it now, what does he do for us, Bily had it a few days ago and Beckford is the Devil incarnate etc

We Evertonians just can't enjoy a win without slagging someone/something off can we?

If the opening poster feels embarrassed because of this free kick, I genuinely feel sorry for him. Then again I am an "apologist" etc etc
Michael Kenrick
60   Posted 21/10/2010 at 14:48:59

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Tony, nobody on here has denied the fact that we won. It seems all you want to read is "We won, we won, we won, we won, Moyes is great, we won,we won, Ossie is great, we won, we won...blah, blah"

Well, in addition to fully celebrating a great win, some of us also have critical faculties that we exercise after a match, and it doesn't detract in any way from the pleasure we have over the win. In fact the discussion we have may help bring out points which make the win that bit more special, as I think has happened in this case.

The fact that you decry others for doing something you don't want to do yourself does not mean they are in the wrong or that they should stop at your behest.

And here's the latest news: these discussion you have so much of a problem with are not going to stop, because post-match analysis is what it's all about after the match is done, and so post-match analysis is what we have always done and will always do. If that involves discussing a player who did not play well, so be it. If it involves an unusual incident from the game, so be it.

If YOU don't like it, YOU don't have to participate. I think you like to tell us all how much you don't like it, though, which is your prerogative. Where you overstep the line is in telling others not to do it because YOU don't like it. Well, sorry, but that just ain't happening.
Tony J Williams
61   Posted 21/10/2010 at 16:48:43

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Not once do I say that he shouldn't have posted it Michael. I offered my view that it I found it strange that after a decent win he has picked up on a moment that didn't affect the game in the slightest and suggesting that it caused embarrassment and showed an inferiority complex. It actually gives a greater insight into his mentality than into those of the players on the pitch.

I know it's not going to stop and guess what? Neither am I when I want to post a response to something I agree/disagree with (until you ban me)

Also there is critical faculties and there is just petty nitpicking.
Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
62   Posted 21/10/2010 at 17:22:46

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"Enjoy it instead of picking up on insignificant details. "

"... instead of basking in the glow of a well earned defeat you have to post a thread having a go at the man of the match." [Err... "defeat? ? I thought we won!]

"I certainly wouldn't bring it up as an embarrassing moment the next day."

"Enjoy the win and at least let people enjoy the victory before starting to slag off the man of the match and apparently us fans because we are not up in arms over a daft free kick from Cahill."

"We Evertonians just can't enjoy a win without slagging someone/something off can we?"

Tell me I'm wrong, Tony, but that sure carries the message to me that you are saying he shouldn't have posted it. (I know you don't actually say those specific words but I'm talking about intent and meaning here.)

I'm all for people disagreeing with posters about their conclusions opinions, interpretations, etc and providing alternatives... That's what we are all about ? except when it comes to the alternative that the post should not have been posted.

It's one thing to provide your opinion of what went down... it's quite another to tell other fans how they should be reacting. Why do you need to do that?
GJ Butler
63   Posted 21/10/2010 at 17:30:31

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Tony, I'm not sure what insight into my mentality you think it gives. Don't get me wrong, I thoroughly enjoyed the victory, but that incident I did find embarrassing and could not think of any other reason to do it other than respecting the opposition to much. I ask you to watch the incident again.

Here was a professional footballer who rather than role the ball to a teammate (Distin I think was three yards behind), he chose to boot the ball out of play as far down the pitch as possible. Not into the corner for Beckford to chase, but straight out of play, near no-one. Your opinion is it it was an insignificant incident, but it's not often something happens in a match that you have never in the history of watching football previously witnessed, and that is genuinely the case here (for me anyway), so I thought it was worth bringing up and seeing others' opinions.

And having analysed it myself, I see it as an act of a side with an inferiority complex, showing far too much respect and desperatley trying to waste time. Some on here seen it as an act of arrogance. We'll disagree and move on. Role on Spurs and hopefully the same result ? with another curious incident to boot...
Dominic Bobadilla
64   Posted 21/10/2010 at 19:17:35

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We could and should have massacred them on Sunday. The last thirty minutes we played like a bunch of ladies. Heidi of the Alps with Friends.
Peter Bourke
65   Posted 21/10/2010 at 23:44:38

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Domenic 64.
We had our whole midfield off injured for the last 30 minutes and still held them comfortably. The shite never looked like scoring, so the fact you think we should have gone on some sort of goal spree and that we played like a bunch of ladies makes me embarrased for you.
Gary Hughes
66   Posted 22/10/2010 at 01:11:26

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I had a score on cahill two nil. Scoring more goals was the last thing on my mind but I understand the point being made.
Ernie McAllister
67   Posted 22/10/2010 at 08:41:35

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Aiden Jones - Pretty minor point to pick up on from a great win. Also to suggest we could have/should have won 4 - 0 easily is fantasy.

I just want to pick up on these points you made. Firstly you say it's a minor point we stood off the gas with a good 30 minutes to go. Sorry lad but resorting to those tactics is almost considered self injury. I mean if you stand off and let them come on to you, more times than not your going to concede goals. Yes the shite where gash but that could so easily have been suicide.

You also say it's pure fantasy we could have won 4 or 5 nil. Umm did we watch the same match here or not? We where all over them like a nasty rash in that first half and by that virtue alone we should have created far more chances and banged in more goals. Every Liverpool supporter I know was of the same opinion, they where reeling and where gob smacked it only ended 2 - 0, it should have been at the least a good 4 - 0 win.

Point is against the bigger teams who are reeling it's important to stab home as many chances or create as many as possible and try to put them away. As you may have seen with 30 minutes to go, we practically gave up and literally camped ourselves on the edge of the box. You just can't do that shit. You telling the opposition to come on and beat your defense. I am not overly thrilled with our defense as it is at the moment, leaking goals all over the place.

While I realize we have got no strikers at all, and I certainly don't class Beckford as one because the lad is completely and utterly clueless as demonstrated time and again in the premier league matches he has played and more importantly in the Derby where he was more interested in fouling than trying to get into any type of position to capitalize on. The Yak for all his bluster is supposed to be a striker not some midfielder chasing every single ball down.

Never the less a great win, and I hope we can take this confidence into the Spurs game on Saturday, where we need to win. Maybe by winning Saturday and getting closer to 4th at the end of the day will change the tide of optimism in the team and give them the belief to go, despite having fuck all up front in the way of natural strikers.
Ernie McAllister
68   Posted 22/10/2010 at 08:57:56

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We finished a game well won 2-0, without Arteta,Osman, Pienaar, Fellaini, Heitinga and Rodwell on the pitch.

Just thought id pull this apart. Firstly it makes no difference whatso ever that fly weight and useless Osman is on or Off the pitch really. And Fellaini has been gash this season because he has been constantly played out of position. Again it would not have mattered if he had played or not, seriously in the position he has been forced to play it, it would have made no difference.

As for the Heit, I can't help but wonder just how many free kicks we would have given away with that lad. He can be extremely wreckless.

Arteta despite his goal, will no doubt readily admit he has had a gash season by his own standards this year. Maybe that 75k a week has got to him, who knows, but he most certainly isn't the same Arteta we know know and love, to me he is very sub part with last season.

I agree with you about Pienaar I'll give you that. As for Rodders, I am sure there are plenty of people of the same opinion as myself, that he gets around a bit, is quite a bit clumbsy and has still a long way to go to convince me he really deserves that starting place. The lad as talent and shows it in rare glimpses.

However bare in mind we had coleman on the pitch, and Moyse's clueless Bily (11m wasted), added to that we had the Yak playing in midfield when he should have been upfront. One wonders why Moyse brought Beckford on, then again it might be because we had camped the midfield on the edge of our own box, with barely anyone bothering to break out of be ready to receive the ball. I'll say again, 3/5 of the mf out is a complete cop out, when you consider what I said above.

You mention some players that where never involved from the start so I fail to see how he could be contradicting himself/

Anyway at the end of the day, it doesn't matter we won and shit as still in the bottom three to me thats failing to make a champions league place.
Ernie McAllister
69   Posted 22/10/2010 at 09:16:48

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I should say the shite are still in the bottom three, and i'd gladly give up any possible champions league place to watch that shower go down.

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