People will be saying we should let him go for free in the summer ? we only bought him for £2 million, but what happens come March/April/May when Pienaar is in a 50/50 and he backs out of it because he doesn?t want to go to his new club with an injury? Say the opposition then counter and score, we drop 2 or 3 points and we miss out on Europe by a point? We need to let Pienaar go not for him but for us.
Pienaar is not irreplaceable by a long way; there are certain aspects of his game that he is very weak on. For example; goal scoring, crossing and positional play, where was he playing on Sunday against Arsenal? We could easily pick up a talented LEFT footed LEFT winger for around £6/7 million.
We could get rid of him for a ridiculously low price in January. Or we could buy someone in January who has his heart 100% on the club and not a move elsewhere. There is the possibility of buying Donovan in January, and his heart would be 100% on Everton.
This is not an anti-Pienaar article whatsoever ? it is for Everton fans to open their eyes and realise that Pienaar is not our best player by a long shot, he is not irreplaceable, we need to let him go as soon as we can.
I have heard the Krancjar rumours... I would bite Tottenham?s hands off ? he is a class player who wants to play football, we need a class player who wants to play football for us. Sounds good when you think about it doesn?t it?
We need a few extra players in January to bolster our squad up. lets hope Bill can dig deep into his back pocket?
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1 Posted 18/11/2010 at 21:20:17
Okay, I'll try keep this short and sweet cos I'm in the library and well behind in my degree and need to kick on so shouldn't even be doing this but its' been bugging me for months.
Pienaar when joining us was a player who was low on confidence and it looked as thoughh he would never realise his potential. Moyes did his usual and spotted this potential (as he does) and has now made Steven realise his potential, which has helped both Everton and Steven himself.
I don't think he should go: I think Moyes should stop being stubborn and give him parity with Arteta. He is now a good enough player and as important and Arteta, Cahill to command parity with the high earners (even though £60/70k makes me sick... but that's another matter).
Moyes needs to realise Steven can move for free to a club such as Inter, Arsenal, Munich etc (who have reported interest). If these 'giants' are willing to pick him up on a free and pay him the extra £10/20k a week he's after, isn't that telling us something? If he is good enough for those teams who play in Champions League every season, then why the hell are we letting him go for free?
I know Moyes wears the trousers but sometimes David you have to realise that we cannot replace a £10/20 (depending who's valuing and who's buying) million pound player. I know we expect some loyalty, but he's given us that and this is 2010... nearly 2011. Players are employees and have no right to be loyal, just like you could work for Microsoft then move to IBM. It's a dog-eat-dog world we live in, Rooney showed us we have no right to expect loyalty. Players who are loyal get our utmost respect but these are probably 5% of footballers.
If we cannot replace... DO NOT SELL (or GIVE AWAY)!!!
Come on, Everton! Steven has been on a par with our best players over the years, his commitment, attitude, work rate, and importance are not underestimated by me and I expect most of you fans. If Steven wants to leave for a change of scenery, then that's a completely different issue, but the agent has admitted it's to do with disagreement on contract as Pienaar loves the club; if that's a smokescreen for him leaving for other matters then it's something only Steven, his agent, (and maybe Moyes) knows (... maybe he doesn't!).
The day Steven Pienaar leaves us for free in the summer will be a very sad day for Everton Football Club.
2 Posted 18/11/2010 at 21:31:24
3 Posted 18/11/2010 at 21:38:29
Your old French master just did a 180 in his resting place.
4 Posted 18/11/2010 at 21:47:00
5 Posted 18/11/2010 at 21:44:49
As for his recent form, I had him as a candidate for the MotM award last weekend. Frankly, if I had to choose between Pienaar and Arteta, I'd opt for Pienaar. Arteta tends to blow hot and cold and doesn't offer us the kind of consistency afforded by Pienaar.
If Arteta's worth the kind of money we're rumoured to be paying him, then, at the very least, Pienaar deserves parity, if not more.
As for Krancjar and players wishing to play for the club, didn't he claim that EFC were interested in him but he opted to sign for Tottenham instead? A claim the club later refuted.
6 Posted 18/11/2010 at 22:23:38
7 Posted 18/11/2010 at 22:29:28
8 Posted 18/11/2010 at 23:31:56
He may not score as many goals as he should but he is still a top player. Do you really think the likes of Arsenal, Spurs and Inter would be sniffing around if he wasn't.
Many a game I've watched this season and thought we were poor and Pienaar was the only shining light. I couldn't help thinking what we would have been like if he hadn't been on the pitch. I found the thought quite scarey but this is what we could face come the New Year.
9 Posted 19/11/2010 at 01:41:34
All the posts lately seem to be about how poor Arteta has been, without much recognition of how much better Pienaar has been... so, the way Arteta's form is at the moment, I'd drop him and give Pienaar the chance to shine again.
10 Posted 19/11/2010 at 02:23:07
With a CL spot, we then would have had money and the lure to buy players to replace Pienaar if he really did want to leave us. But one would hope that with a CL spot and an achieving, ambitious team, Pienaar would have wanted to stay.
I think it was a gamble to take, but a good one. Either way, it would have been a gamble selling him & bringing in an untested player. Obviously this season has so far not turned out to be the season we hoped, so now everyone looks like a goose.
If Pienaar really is the mercenary he is sometimes made out to be, at least we will get a quality season out of him giving 100% every game as he is playing for a contract. When I have seen him play for Everton, I have never seen him give anything less, regardless.
11 Posted 19/11/2010 at 03:17:50
For fuck's sake, we don't have a bean to spend under these clueless buffoons in the boardroom... so where do these fans think we're going to get the reported £10m asking price plus his wages??
We may as well keep Pienaar until the end of the season as the fee we'd get for him in January would be so small it wouldn't be worth getting rid then. If we did get shut of Pienaar in January, who would take his place for the rest of the season? Bily? Do me a favour!
12 Posted 19/11/2010 at 03:14:15
And what price a quality replacement? Is Gueye his replacement? Will we ever find out? OK, Pienaar doesn't score goals regularly ? but who does, apart from Cahill?
I said earlier that a club in Everton's financial position shouldn't miss a business oportunity in letting an unsettled player, a very saleable asset, leave for nothing. If he's going we should have cashed in. If we want him, pay him the going rate.
13 Posted 19/11/2010 at 06:03:25
Charlie Percival , I think you have it spot on with your assessment... definitely big-picture thinking mate... good luck with the degree!
If I look at last week?s game, Arteta couldn't make one single tackle during that whole game... or track back, let alone the dismal error he made that ultimately resulted in Arsenal scoring.
Let?s look at Arteta?s last 2 season and ask yourself, has he done better that Pienaar? The answers in ?hell NO?... so why is he being paid way more that Pienaar? Only DM can answer that one.
I still do not agree with the salaries these players are getting nowadays. (They're earning in one week is 3 times my annual salary here in South Africa) But what's fair should just be that... fair. If bigger clubs are willing to pay him that... why not us?
14 Posted 19/11/2010 at 06:17:07
15 Posted 19/11/2010 at 08:22:40
Nasri had a free run at Baines all afternoon on Sunday, both goals came from Pienaar not doing his defensive duty when Baines had 'bombed on'.
I think he is a great player, but usually when someone wants to go, it's just a matter of time.
If we sold Pienaar for a nominal fee ? we'd probably get no more than £2M ? and sold Billy back to a Russian team, we'd hopefully have near £10M to spend. What would I do if it's possible?
Get Landon back on loan, Bentley if Landon wants a rest. And do everything possible to sign N'Zogbia who is on fine form currently, offers pace, dribbling and end product (crosses and goals) going forward, and has the left back roots to be able to defend too. In fact, he'd even be able to play emergency full back.
Distin, Saha and Gueye would probably need to be on the negotiating panel!
16 Posted 19/11/2010 at 09:02:01
All-in-all, I think it's a good situation for Everton, we paid similar money if not more for Andy van der Meyde and got not nothing; with Pienaar he's been in the side regularly. Therefore I think we've recouped our money, had we paid £4M for him and he been indifferent, we'd have got less for him anyway.
I don't want him to go and think if he does go to some of the so possible suitors I think he himself is not seeing the bigger picture. I don't think he'll command a first team place (Inter Milan, Spurs etc) and, as 'Big mouth Harry' has shown, he has no loyalty and won't be happy until he has 3 players for every position.
If SP wanted to stay, he would've signed by now. I think he's gambling getting a big sign on fee. It's refreshing (even if it isn't realistic) seeing Landon Donovan's comments at the moment as, in lieu of this, someone still WANTS to play for Everton!
17 Posted 19/11/2010 at 09:17:49
Nice try, Jake, but we all know that'll never happen. How many transfer windows has it been since we spent a penny without the proceeds of players exiting?
Trust me, it won't happen.
18 Posted 19/11/2010 at 09:12:31
Whilst he has been really good for us and he is obviously a good player, there are chinks in his armour. My frustration with him lies in his final pass, his poor shooting, and his general inability to score a goal.
Whilst we would miss his him, I think we need to get some money for him that can be put toward buying a replacement (Krancjar, Bentley, N'Zogbia, Ireland). At the end of the day, I want players playing for the Club who are 100% committed and, as I said previously, I think he sees himself playing for a "better" club.
19 Posted 19/11/2010 at 09:44:45
20 Posted 19/11/2010 at 10:13:37
More important than how much Pienaar reportedly wants and whether he wants/deserves parity with Arteta, is the need for him to want to stay. At no stage has he come out and said 'I want to be at Everton, we just need to sort out the contract'.
So all the talk of give him what he wants is probably irrelevant ? he wants to move on!
21 Posted 19/11/2010 at 10:20:19
You sound like a lad who knows he's going to get jilted by someone he loves. Your first paragraph is factually inaccurate. It's just a sad case of slagging him off before he goes so you won't feel so bad when he does.
Pienaar, whether you like it or not, has been, alongside Baines, our most creative outlet in this, admittedly poor, season. I for one like the guy and believe he is right to hold out for what he is undoubtedly worth, you would in your job, why shouldn't he? And before I get criticism about the wages he's already on, it's all relative.
I can't believe we can give contracts to average squad players, and past-it forwards, but not offer a player that actually creates and excites a wage that befits him in the football market.
22 Posted 19/11/2010 at 11:09:29
If we are to lose him, I think realistic targets would have to be Kranjcar, Muntari (on loan), Sessegon (on loan), or signing players like Dale Jennings or Jamie Mackie from the lower divisons.
I think Donovan won't happen and actually isn't constructive unless signed permanently. N'Zogbia would cost too much and his wages are too high.
23 Posted 19/11/2010 at 11:26:25
If we can shift him for a few million in January then do it. There are a few clubs after him and if we're lucky we'll get £3-5m. Then bring in Landon on loan and start playing 4-3-3 with:
Coleman Jags Distin/Heitinga Baines
Rodwell Fellaini Arteta/Bily
Donovan Yak/Cahill Saha
Just a thought... bored of what we are currently doing.
24 Posted 19/11/2010 at 11:42:22
Bloody Hell, Charlie!
25 Posted 19/11/2010 at 11:44:26
No, a claim he later rejected. not the same...
26 Posted 19/11/2010 at 11:46:48
He is good enough for CL football, and we generally qualify for Europa League. Money maybe a part, but I think that is the main sticking point. We can't offer CL football.
Only problem I have with Kranjcar is that we need wingers, not another CM. But if we were offered him for Pienaar, I would with a heavy heart accept.
On Donovan, I reckon only a 4-year deal would do. And if he were to arrive on such a deal, I'd rest him till late Feb. He has played almost non-stop since March 2009, for Pete's Sake.
27 Posted 19/11/2010 at 12:38:12
He thinks he's too good for Everton, for an attacking midfielder how often does he score and how often do one of his passes actually come off? He is a nearly player and that's why he is not good enough for one of the top clubs. It says it all that Seamus Coleman, a £40k signing right back from Sligo Rovers, is more dangerous than him at the moment. That is also why he does not deserve the same amount of money as Arteta and he should look at what Tim Cahill does for Everton before signing a contract anywhere near the same amount.
28 Posted 19/11/2010 at 13:14:02
Moyes is going nowhere and has to make do with what Bill gives him for now but Pienaar is the holder of all his own cards. He can now go and get a bumper signing-on fee and, as he is free, his wages will probably be significantly higher than we can afford to pay him. Also, he can see out the last few years of his career playing Champions League footie... something else we are a long way off from giving him. (If only we capatalised when we finished 4th like Spurs have... but that's another thread!)
I for one can't blame him for doing the things the way he has and at least he ain't done a Lescott on us. He leaves with my good wishes ? so long as it's not to them horrible red bastards next door!
29 Posted 19/11/2010 at 14:12:37
Pienaar is worth two of lazy Arteta. He wants the same money as Arteta and Everton won't give it to him. We are keeping the wrong player.
30 Posted 19/11/2010 at 14:23:24
First team birth at Everton, adulation of the fans etc
Fringe player at a club playing Champions League in the PL, Bundesliga, Serie A or La Liga?
Or move on to a CL team in a league like France.
I won't lose any sleep if Pienaar goes. I rate him as a player but he can be replaced, I felt worse over Lescott going because I knew it could leave a void (a fairly solid CB, our back-up left-back, and he scored quite a few goals).
31 Posted 19/11/2010 at 15:34:38
Pienaar is one of the reasons we are where we are in the league because he plays pretty football and has no end product when we need a result. When he was out injured, we actually won a few games.
I'm not defending Arteta because he has been poor recently, but he is one of the reasons we dominate possession against many teams. It's not Arteta's fault he doesn't have the players around him to make runs and benefit from his ability.
32 Posted 19/11/2010 at 17:07:55
33 Posted 19/11/2010 at 19:04:03
Do the math: if we lose Pienaar for nothing (or for peanuts), we CANNOT replace him ? simple as that. He's a cracking little player and we will sorely miss him.
And all this talk about Kranjcar... well where are we gonna get the money to sign him? If we get anything for Pienaar, it will be no more than £5M and you can't buy the Kranjcars of this world for a measly £5M these days.
Quite frankly, the extra money he is asking for will seem like peanuts once we realise the dramatic negative effect of him leaving has had on our perfromances on the pitch ? trust me.
34 Posted 19/11/2010 at 19:43:21
35 Posted 19/11/2010 at 20:07:15
Admittedly he has had a poor start to the season and Sunday against the Arse, he was... well, Arse ? without a doubt the worst I?ve seen Arteta in a blue jersey. But I?ll counteract that by saying that he?s been the best Everton player (apart from Kanchelskis and he only had one good season with us) since the glory days by a country mile.
Pienaar; will he stay or go? I?m neutral on the subject, I?d like him to stay but there are better players in his position who score the odd goal or two.
36 Posted 19/11/2010 at 21:05:32
37 Posted 19/11/2010 at 20:49:11
Let me say this: Bily or Pienaar for that bit of guile or shooting around the penalty area??? It's Bily all the time. Drop Pienaar, give Bily a run, and get behind him... and I know ? I'm certain we will see more goals.
38 Posted 19/11/2010 at 22:58:44
If Bily turns out to be half the player Pienaar is I'll show my arse in the bathroom section of Rapid DIY without the managers express permission.
39 Posted 20/11/2010 at 12:58:35
He thought he'd done enough to earn a bumper pay day at a decent club... and has simply refused to sign a contract because he thinks he's better than he actually is.
To be honest, I will not shed a tear if the pious hypocrite goes.
40 Posted 20/11/2010 at 18:59:41
41 Posted 20/11/2010 at 19:05:21
Its taken some time, but finally I agree with you. I think you have got him absolutely nailed, bang to rights!
42 Posted 20/11/2010 at 22:21:43
43 Posted 21/11/2010 at 12:39:48
Where the hell you have this dip in form shite, try looking at our overated star man Arteta first.
He was class against Bolton and was the only one trying to create, did you lads manage to see this on Iraqi goals?
He was also with Distin the best player for us last week, not to mention Blackpools last ten minutes onslaught coincided with Pienaar going off.
The next time you go the game, watch the lads work rate off the ball, he is worth every penny Arteta gets, give him the money as we wont replace him with better, and then we could be waiting an eternity for his replacement to gel, or worse turn into a Bily and that is something we cannot afford.
44 Posted 21/11/2010 at 12:56:51
45 Posted 21/11/2010 at 17:22:57
Give him the money Moysie.
46 Posted 21/11/2010 at 18:40:26
47 Posted 21/11/2010 at 20:24:38
On a side note, does anyone else think that him and Arteta tend to get in each other's way sometimes? Pienaar was all over the pitch looking for the ball against Bolton which seemed to confuse Arteta a bit from what I could see.
48 Posted 21/11/2010 at 22:41:03
So in essence Bily has scored the same amount of goals in half the appearances and had more assists... but Pienaar looks busier!.... Either him or Arteta? Arteta every time. Could the standoff re wages be causing waves behind the scenes?
49 Posted 23/11/2010 at 02:38:16
Assists aren't meaningful stats so let's ignore them, but scoring goals are clearly his shortcoming. But then, as well as getting forward, he also chases back... maybe you just can't have everything?
When Arsenal were twotting us all over the show at Goodison last year, 10 blokes had their heads down and had stopped running. Steven Pienaar chased and harried like he was embarrassed and hurt ? I'll never forget that. If he goes then it's with my best wishes; we've had ample opportunity to keep him.
50 Posted 23/11/2010 at 07:59:44
Colin, "Pienaar's return has coincided with our recent poor results"! We have lost once against Arsenal, the lad is twice the player Arteta is at the moment, and we are just saying, "Oh let him go, we only paid buttons for him anyway," ? what utter shite mentality. When you see how we have blown millions on Bily, it`s a no-brainer.
51 Posted 23/11/2010 at 18:08:54
Yet again, no assist, slowing the play down... no goal!
Look at the wider picture... and one league win with him in the side! Hard work... yes; to blame for Sunderland's first goal? Probably! Worldbeater ? definitely NOT!
Ernie, he was totally out of his depth against Arsenal and it was his loose pass that eneded with their second goal! He is an above-average pPremier League player... end of. No more, no less! And he wants to leave... bad apple? Probably!
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