Moyes's next step was to get the squad age down, get rid of the deadwood and make Everton a top 10 team which he did, even one year breaking into the top 4!! Fans hopes were raised behond belief, Moyes was untouchable and to some extent he still is.
We knew at the time we were in a false position when we finished 4th, we didn't play like a top 4 team, it was a defensive setup, to nick a goal when we could, and strangle the game to hold out for the win which we was the best in the league at.
Over those first 4 years Moyes had, I was happy with what he was doing as we were progressing most years, but the football was dire to watch!! I can remember a number of articles from fans including myself calling for pass-and-move football; now Moyes has given us that even if we lack penetration in the final third, at the moment.
I bet you are reading this thinking this is a Moyes apoligist at his best!! Well, I'm not. I believe Everton fans have become fickle, sack moyes get rid of Pienaar, Cahill, Bily, Johnny, Jags, Distin, Osman, Arteta, Yakubu... Moyes is too negative, tactics, substitutions etc etc ? I hear these things week-in, week-out on this site and others.
I understand that Moyes has won nothing and that at times he is too cautious, but tell me a manger that has won something with no money for past three summers!!! Some will point to his signings Bily, Johnny, and why he plays players out of position etc, I can understand the fans having a go, every fan has their own beliefs on how we should play and who should be picked, but let's put things into perspective.
If every fan was honest they would agree that the football has improved, it's more pass-and-move than hoof hoof what it used to be a few years back. We bemoan that we can't score but Moyes will get it right, he has got nearly everything right since he has been here, fans calling for his head is ridiculous.
Personally I want to see Moyes with a proper summer transfer kitty for a few seasons to see how he would handle it before chopping him. Fans have short memories, I can remember when we signed Mikey to a new 5-year contract and across the internet it was hailed as the best bit of business done by the club in years!! All of a sudden Mikey is crap, he can't cross or passes sideways too much! Get a grip, people, he will come good ? just like Moyes will.
I just hope the fans stop being so fickle and get behind the team for a change, unlike that morgue atmosphere at Goodison last week!! We are in danger of being classed as the fickle lot across the park... we are better than that ? we are EVERTON!
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1 Posted 21/11/2010 at 15:43:33
2 Posted 21/11/2010 at 15:43:34
Good job things are completely different now th... hmm, wait a minute. Shit
3 Posted 21/11/2010 at 15:42:49
I think the main problem stems from raised aspirations. "This is the best squad we've had in 20 years"... "We're gonna win the league cos of the 24-year cycle".
Have to disagree on Arteta though. He has always been poor on corners and free kicks and does not have the belief to score goals.
The problem is that teams have become less concerned with keeping clean sheets and are more committed to scoring more goals than the opposition.
This trend has caught us out big time because, with the exception of Yak and Tiny, we do not have ANY goal threat from elsewhere. (Maybe Felli when he's not injured or suspended... but that's it.)
4 Posted 21/11/2010 at 15:53:03
5 Posted 21/11/2010 at 15:51:00
Who did he buy? Joey Yobo (good) and Richard Wright (bad... very bad). But don't let the facts ruin your little tirade against the judgement of the fans. After all, what do they know, eh?
6 Posted 21/11/2010 at 16:16:26
I agree with Brian (#5) ? no-one can be arsed anymore. Can anyone suggest anything to get us l out of our lethargy?
7 Posted 21/11/2010 at 16:50:24
8 Posted 21/11/2010 at 16:51:20
How about a bit of effort from the players, to get the crowd going.
9 Posted 21/11/2010 at 16:48:53
Apart from that, I totally agree with you. Would love to see Moyes given a transfer kitty that was comparable with absolutely anyone else in the Premier League.
10 Posted 21/11/2010 at 17:10:22
Moyes has spent the following:, Fellaini ? £15M; Yakubu ? £12M; Bilyaletdinov ? £9M; Heitinga ? £6M; Baines ? £6M; Distin ? £5M; Howard ? £5M; Neville ? £5M; Jagielka ? £6M; Yobo ? £5M; Cahill, Arteta, Pienaar ? £8M combined...
That best-ever squad for 20 years has got £90M worth of talent bought by him,
Have a look at the league table, it doesn't lie.
The managers from the unfashionable teams, who haven't spent the money Moyes has, aren't doing too bad, are they?
11 Posted 21/11/2010 at 17:17:33
I was lucky enough to see Everton under Harry Catterick and had a season ticket in the eighties. Perhaps that is why I am so critical now.
If David Moyes had £80 million to spend in the summer, what would happen? In my view, I'd rather see someone else spend it. I believe he is set in his ways. A fine manager but not a great one. He'll keep us safe; no more, no less. Is that enough? It disappoints me that, for many Evertonians, it is.
12 Posted 21/11/2010 at 17:25:23
The only problem that I see if Moyes goes is who would want the job? No potential manager would want to be in the situation of having no spending money.
In fact, countless times we have heard other managers applaud the fact at the work he has done on a shoestring budget and at the same time feel sorry for his task at hand.
One thing is clear: we will not get any big-named contenental man to take the helm and all of the better qualified men in the UK are already in good roles and would not leave their postions.
If Everton do come across the finances, the questions would be do we want Moyes spending it? Or do we cut ties and bring in someone fresh?
13 Posted 21/11/2010 at 17:36:37
Have we always been fickle or is this the first time I've noticed it?
Goodison has been a morgue for your average match since reserved seating came in in the 90s.
It's so bad we come up with excuses to pretend it's great, or that vocal support is not needed, because we can't be bothered taking the responsibility to do something about it ourselves.
But hey let's pretend it's because we're different, we're special.
14 Posted 21/11/2010 at 18:09:19
Smack on. GP has been dead for some time ? at any home game, the away fans constantly take the piss, and except for the RS and United, we don't seem to give a fuck. Me, I have been going to Goodison since the late 70s and back then no-one, and definately not your 400 fans from Bolton, took the piss.
Why? There are probably a million reasons and one seems to be that a lot of footy people state, and keep stating, that Goodison is a "tough old place to get a point, never mind three points" ? well, not for me. We play the same shite system at home as we do away and basically it's fucking boring.
You can sit waiting and wondering which player will fuck up first, with most of the players not wanting to balls up Moyes's gameplan. I seem to be watching a process of sideways passing that the opposition could not give two fucks about ? they just wait, give it five minutes and someone in blue will give the ball away.
Lastly, most the players do not generate or want feedback from the crowd. They just seem to play like robots, not stepping out of position or doing something that's either different or not required ? like fucking shooting at the goal!!! For me, the supporters have been feeling this negativity for many years and hey presto "no atmosphere".
But back to the footy... and for this season we won't go down, we won't win a cup, and we definitely won't qualify for a CL place. Additionally, we won't get hammered, Goodison will be a tough place to come, we won't score many goals... and lastly, no-one will give a fuck.
15 Posted 21/11/2010 at 18:52:24
However, I've come to the conclusion that he is not a winner & I don't believe that would change with increased transfer funds. We won't win anything while he is manager.
Nontheless, he is not our greatest problem ? the Board is.
16 Posted 21/11/2010 at 19:17:39
I'll tell you what it is! It is utter aimless shite. It is clueless. Absolutely none of the players have a fucking clue what to do with the ball except pass it sideways. Why don't you actually go to a game? If you did you would have some comprehension as to why fans are sat there not singing, bored shitless.
17 Posted 21/11/2010 at 18:50:02
Take for example the latter part of last season and the pre-season games. The football we were playing was above average and although we didn't qualify for Europe we were really happy that for once we were about to start a season with the whole squad (more or less) intact.
The hype which was generated on this site, and yours truly being caught well amongst it, was almost stratospheric. I know because I put us as finishing third in the table!!
Now then I don't even have to go into the archives to remember that I was not alone. We were all at it. And why not? It really looked like we were going to take the league by storm.
Sean, fwiw, I'll try an analogy to explain what a lot of people on this site are feeling.
Imagine you have a best mate that you've known for 15/20 years. He only lives at the bottom of the road, you went to school together, played footy in the street together, met girls at discos together, and basically thought that this guy was the real deal and either of you would be beside the other's deathbed.
One day, he's now a single bloke but you feel sorry for him and go out to the pub, the cinema, the match and everything else. Then, out of the "BLUE", you find out he's been havin' it off with your girlfriend/mrs. You are not going to feel very happy with your supposed best mate.
Now do you understand why we're all so bloody fickle? I'm pissed right off the way we looked at the start of the season. I'm pissed right off that Moyes put Rodwell attack mid right against Villa. And most of all, I'm pissed right off that this season the Sky 3 are not the force that they were in bygone seasons and we can't take advantage of that fact!!
After all that, Everton are still coursing through my veins and, fickle or not, there's nothing in the whole universe that I can do to ever change that fact.
18 Posted 21/11/2010 at 19:27:21
19 Posted 21/11/2010 at 19:28:03
I disagree with you on these comments:
"he did a fantastic job"
"hopes raised beyond belief"
"Moyes will get it right, he has got nearly everything right since he has been here"
I agree on this:
"the football was dire"
"he is too cautious"
Being fickle is a joy.
20 Posted 21/11/2010 at 19:53:00
21 Posted 21/11/2010 at 20:14:25
All football fans are fickle. Though fans on here do seem to have grown increasingly so in recent years.
Very simply, Moyes came and raised the bar and hence expectations. Be it because of Moyes, Kenwright, money or the players, we are going to struggle to meet these new expectations.
One stat that interested me this weekend was apparently we have had more touches in the opposition box than any other team bar Arsenal...
22 Posted 21/11/2010 at 20:43:24
23 Posted 21/11/2010 at 20:43:35
24 Posted 21/11/2010 at 21:46:00
I don't know how many of the above posters go away regularly but I can tell you this, only Stoke have impressed me in recent seasons and they go wild for a throw-in.
There is a sign up on the Holte End that says "The 12th Man". If that's the case, I'd rather play with 11. The Shite are Shite. All flags and no passion. Old Trafford is dire for atmosphere. Highbury, the library says it all, the move has changed fuck all on the atmosphere front. Sunderland & Newcastle rarely get going.
I could go on and on... but the fact is away fans always, without exception out-sing, out-shout etc the home fans for one simple reason: away fans are a hardcore version of a football supporter.
Our away support turns up in numbers everywhere and consistently takes the piss, I'd say we probably have the best away support in the league ? something that fans of other sides have said to me on numerous occasions, although Man Utd also have a very big away following.
On Moyes, I'm a bit stuck on what I want to happen. There are times usually when we are getting beat by shite sides like Bolton when I think he's lost his drive and the players no longer respond to him. Other times, I'm thinking is it reasonable to expect more within the glaringly obvious constraints forced upon him?
I think another season where our poor start costs us should see him go as he has form for making the same error more than once. The attacking style he's going for has to a degree cost us some defensive solidity, regardless of what the stats say, and this was his strength as a manager in a footballing sense. If we were to lose this, I'd want to see the back of him.
25 Posted 21/11/2010 at 22:25:43
26 Posted 21/11/2010 at 22:34:22
27 Posted 21/11/2010 at 22:25:57
Then you look toward the attack. That's why Moyes was really upset about loosing Lescott, because he knew how important he was to the shape at the back. We have never recovered from that loss.
Moyes feels unsafe to move forward too much with his dodgy defense. The midfield are pulled too far back to cover, and thus we have a lack of attack. Mikel is not operating in his most dangerous role etc etc.
We are second tier at the moment and cannot attract a top class manager. Oh, well... my wife is not Miss England, but I love her anyway.
28 Posted 21/11/2010 at 22:57:33
I don't remember sitting down when we had loads more fans than them at Wembley and out-sang them for the full match. I know... I was in their end.
29 Posted 21/11/2010 at 23:33:51
Sack Moyes? Hilarious that one... and replace him with who? Jose, Sir Alex or Wenger? Exactly, I can't think off one name I would want to replace DM!!
Not won anything? This aint the 60s,70s or 80s. This is 2010! Gone are the days of building a team from players bought from lower league/Scotland and moulding them into league champions a la Wankly, Clough, Kendall, etc.
The upshot is, you need coin... and lots off it!! Chelsea, Man U, Arsenal (not won anything in 5-plus years, but they ain't spent much) ... between these three, they have dominated the Premier League years... the reason ? they have spent big! Man City are due to break this mould... the reason ? they have spent big!!
We aint gonna win the league under DM, but that's not down to him being a bad manager ? that's down to other clubs spending more money!
This is the best squad we've had in 20 years... name a better one?
Moyes will get it right .. starting with 3 points tomorrow!
30 Posted 21/11/2010 at 23:25:05
Like the man says, though, no-one else is winning silver outside of the Sky Three. That's how the game is. The anointed three (used to be four) divvy everything up between themselves, save for the odd League Cup left aside when their reserves get a run out. It's the great Premier footy taboo. You'll never see Sky pointing to how uncompetitive the top tier is, for obvious reasons. Talk up the product, boys, there's good chaps! Chelsea lose the odd game and we're told how unpredictable the top tier is... complete nonsense!
Money has completely shafted top English footy. Moyes has done a decent-to-good job down the years. Maybe we need a new face, but don't kid yerself that we're going to win anything without wads. No-one's record is better than Moyes in the past five or six years outside 'the three', whether or not he's dour or negative at times.
Fickle indeed, but until the structure of English football changes we're just part of someone else's support act. That's what really grates.
31 Posted 21/11/2010 at 23:57:09
Unfortunately, as a paying customer, don't expect me to scream the rafters down if I'm not getting my money's worth. If it's shit, I'll let them know it's shit ? and have every right to do so.
32 Posted 22/11/2010 at 00:35:57
Can we please put a stop to spouting this bollocks? It's nearly as irritating as when the media refer to the England of Ferdinand, Lampard and Stevie G La as being "the golden generation". The current squad is so great that we only have one left back, not one player with real pace, no wingers whatsoever, 3 forwards (2 of whom look finished at the top level and another totally unproven) who have contributed a mere two league goals between them all season.
While we're at it, can we cut out this crap as well: "IMWT". I can understand it if you're about eight years old, but otherwise it's just embarrassing.
33 Posted 22/11/2010 at 01:35:55
A single digit finish, somewhere, if are lucky, between 9th and 5th, IS NOT the new First.
So Goodisons too quiet?? Give us something to shout about.
34 Posted 22/11/2010 at 03:56:24
Moyes out. Unless we win tonight. Then I'll re-evaluate the situation. Saha is shite. Unless he scores tonight. Then I'll re-evaluate the situation. And so on...
35 Posted 22/11/2010 at 07:55:58
You judge him on...
a) the whole 8+ years;
b) This season.
NOT ONE FUCKING GAME.
36 Posted 22/11/2010 at 09:17:21
Lets stick to talkin about EFC hey and keep England out off it.
I repeat again, this is the best Everton squad in 20 years... and I repeat again, can you name me another? Arteta, Peinaar, Rodwell, Felli, Cahill, Jags, Baines would all play major roles in any off the Big 3!! That's 7 players! How many times could we have said that over the last 20 years?
Admittedly the forwards aren't doing it at the the moment, but Moyes knows that more than anyone. Do you really think he would not have loved to sign a £20 million plus striker in the summer? Of course he would!
And while your telling me which Everton Squad has been better in the last 20 years, tell me who you would replace Moyes with??
37 Posted 22/11/2010 at 09:30:44
Now there is no sign of progress. So the fans are losing patience. Something has to change for Everton to move on, either Moyes or the Board. Please note: 'Board' ? not just BK.
38 Posted 22/11/2010 at 09:14:49
Come to that, how much moire time does Moyes need before he admits that either his tactic of having a lone striker does not work or the players he has at his disposal are incapable of making it work?
39 Posted 22/11/2010 at 10:26:12
40 Posted 22/11/2010 at 10:20:02
Let's see how many of the 'big 3' come in for Pienaar when he's available for a pittance in the January window or snap him up for free in the summer. My guess? None of them.
Arteta doesn't even deserve to be starting games for Everton on current form. Cahill scores important goals and has an appetite for a fight but is technically lacking and not good enough on the ball. Could you see him fitting into Arsenal's fast, fluent passing style for example?
Ashley Cole or Baines? Patrice Evra or Baines? Gael Clichy or Baines? ... As much as I like him, I don't think he would stand a chance of dislodging any of those players.
Rodwell is not ready yet to play "a major role" for one of the 'big 3' . He would at least have to be a regular starter, influencing games for Everton first and he hasn't managed it yet.
Jagielka, maybe, but I doubt his distribution from the back is of the required standard.
Fellaini... Ok I'll give you that one.
41 Posted 22/11/2010 at 10:46:32
Alan Irvine looked less of a twat than Steve Round as well.
42 Posted 22/11/2010 at 11:38:10
You're not going to join in with a song if no song is being sung, are you?
You're not going to start off a song if you're not surrounded by people who are likely to join in with you, are you?
That's the top-all and end-all of it. It has nothing to do with us being different or cool as some like to portray it.
43 Posted 22/11/2010 at 10:46:03
3 points tonight!
44 Posted 22/11/2010 at 12:09:27
45 Posted 22/11/2010 at 13:11:04
I agree with you fully. I just wanted to point out that we are up there in terms of support.
46 Posted 22/11/2010 at 13:25:25
47 Posted 22/11/2010 at 13:14:19
48 Posted 22/11/2010 at 14:16:58
Agreed, if we lose tonight we're struggling.
49 Posted 22/11/2010 at 14:55:54
50 Posted 22/11/2010 at 16:44:54
It seems that when LC played, the rest of the team could concentrate soley on attacking and scoring. We were more direct in those days and played with more dynamism.
All that seems to have faded and I'm not sure what the answer is. As someone mentioned money and the top three Bolton (4th) don't seem to be doing too bad.
We badly need a win tonight and compromise is not an option.
51 Posted 23/11/2010 at 10:02:39
Now that's progress after 9 years, eh?
Even more so when other clubs like Chelsea, City, Spurs, Sunderland, Birmingham have progressed in those 9 years, makes us worse.
52 Posted 23/11/2010 at 19:12:26
When your gambit starts with a rumour then you know you're in for a hiding.
Fans are only as fickle as the football they are served. A point that some fail to grasp.
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