a) I was always a Moyes supporter previous to this season, even though I could acknowledge the semi-regular tactical balls-up he would instigate from time to time. You felt we were taking two steps forward for every step back ? at least most of the time.
b) The 'bipolar' approach highlighted by Alan (#3) has been a sad aspect of ToffeeWeb over the years and typified by Richard Dodd and Tony Marshy as our pantomime dames, but it gets the debate going until Ken usually brings his commonsense to the fore.
c) We are a great club with a proud heritage and great fans who deserve better. Once bitten, we are with the lads for life (no glory seekers here ? Labone's famous quote remains completely true!)
d) I have lived through the glory days of the late 60s the depressive 70s (yet I saw some cracking games during Lee's tenure!), the resurgent 80s (was our ECWC squad our greatest ever? ? bless 'em), the lost years of the 90s (Joe Royle's "Dogs of War" brief spirit a fading memory...), leading up to the positivity that Moyes initially brought to the 2000s. I saw my pride in our club increase and, while the lows still outnumbered the highs, we still had much more to enjoy at times.
e) I have always seen Moyes as an honest and dedicated man with his heart in the right place; while he hasn't been as starved of funds as some fans might suggest (and his transfer successes only just sightly out-balance his failures over the seasons), my expectations of money from Blue Bill's pockets have been more realistic than many, and so my expectations from Moyes have been more considered in the transfer windows.
f) I didn't like the Kirkby shambles at all, and bitterly regret our lost opportunity at the Kings Docks, but I have previously been sufficiently forgiving for it not to erase my positivity for my wonderful club.
That's me ? a fairly typical fan over the last decade. Maybe more aligned to the silent majority who turn up at Goodison or make it to away games. Less forgiving than the BlueKipper team, but less critical than the average ToffeeWeb poster......
So when I say that I'm now absolutely gutted and depressed by the way our team is currently being run, managed, motivated and controlled.... and the way our players are playing, I hope it signals a bit of a watershed for many of us fans who have tried to remain pragmatic in recent seasons.
The West Ham game has just done it for me. Even a decent (i.e. lucky) run in the second half of this season will not take away my feeling of disappointment and disillusion at how stale we now are as a club.
I don't know what Bill is now doing for us ? I don\'t see any vision or spirit ? I see our manager seemingly bereft of ideas, tactical nous, motivational skills, media communication savvy... and not even knowing what our best team is (even when it is fit). I see once great players playing like pale shadows of their standards of previous seasons, and a dressing room that must not be as harmonious as in previous seasons. The welcome fighting spirit from the likes of Cahill, Baines and Neville must be applauded, but I sense too many cuckoos in the nest, or even deadwood that would not have been allowed to hang-around in previous seasons either.
Like many, I just don't know what to do. Our squad is better than our results have demonstrated, so surely the managerial team must take the blame for this season (I'm not privy to training sessions, but surely the lads do play together from time to time!!!). I'm not convinced a new manager will change things (although looking at what Coyle and Holloway seem to get out of lesser players gets me wondering more these days!) but if Moyes can't recapture that fire and vision of old, then surely he needs to hold his hand up now and concede that he has reached the limit of his abilities.
I don\'t expect our team to win much in the years to come. Football has changed over the decades and unless we have a similar revolutionary change amongst our investors and board, I'm not sure we'll ever challenge like we once did (bar the odd cup run, derby win, Sky 4 upset etc.), although I expect our record top flight residence never to be threatened by the Arsenal.
However, I want my club to go out on that pitch to the Z-Cars theme with a bit of fighting spirit, confidence and flair to give us punters a good show ? win, lose or draw. The current dour performances are unacceptable (regardless of the result) and if Moyes, Kenwright and the players do not realise why that is unacceptable for us Evertonians, then it has to be taxi-time... even if we all fear what rollercoaster ride might await.
The status quo is no longer an option ? and I hope more of the 'silent' majority between the bipolar extremes of Marshy and Doddy (bless em!) start expressing our concerns before it is too late!
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1 Posted 31/12/2010 at 16:56:04
2 Posted 31/12/2010 at 17:27:04
Purely down to the art of attacking ? or lack of it on our part. Play players in their right positions, if they are out of form, not trying then drop them. It's not rocket science, it's basic team management.
3 Posted 31/12/2010 at 17:41:22
I take my two grandsons (aged 12 & 13) to every home game and even they dont look forward to the games with the excitement that kids of that age should. I don't want Moyes to go because I dislike him, I have a huge admiration for what he has done for this club and like the man, but he needs to go for his own sake as well as the clubs.
4 Posted 31/12/2010 at 18:14:41
Moyes is a hypocrite for making the remarks a few weeks back about Goodison and the crowd being quiet. I thought to myself he has a nerve to state that about good paying fans when he and his team need to take a good long hard look at themselves for the shit they are putting the supporters through.
5 Posted 31/12/2010 at 18:20:55
I go home and away and used to look forward to watching the blue boys ? now it's just depressing. The next week is a big week for Everton I just hope I can look forward in the New Year to seeing some football when I go the game.
As for Moyes, I think he is a dead man walking which I think sums up our once mighty club. I don't know what the long-term answers are but just keep turning up because I've got blue blood going through my veins.
6 Posted 31/12/2010 at 18:42:22
Like yourself, David, I'm an ordinary fan but it's a can of worms when you go beyond blind faith. I don't think the Everton product is value for money and, though I'll never be anything but an Evertonian, I won't spend money on this setup. I remember feeling angry at Everton when Ball, Lineker and more recently Rooney went but it's worse now because what's to look forward to? Cue the young guns saying "Piss off then".
7 Posted 31/12/2010 at 19:22:08
I'm no young gun and I'm not telling you to piss off but if you have supported the Blues through the Ball to Rooney period, then the present shite must be a walk in the park.
The 70s and early 80s were just as bad as now, no, they were fucking worse. We then had the Holy Trinity period of about 5 years (by the way, I'm sure we won nothing with Lineker). Then we entered the 90s where we were hailed as the Dogs of War and hence had players sent off more often than we scored ? if it wasn't for the results at GP, we would have been relegated on at least 3 occasions (as you would know, our away form was absolute shite). Yes, I know, the cup in 95.
Hey, I can understand it if the money is tight because most of us probably find it tough... but, other than WBA, I have not seen anyone out-play us at Goodison; no-one. Our away form is what it is, we are always good for a goal and, unlike most teams who come to GP, we do attack when we play away.
I have seen a lot worse shite played by Everton than I'm currently watching under Moyes and I guess you have as well. All the posts on TW are consistent with what's happening on the pitch, that is why we know that more can be achieved and so does Moyes. We are not in the 70s or 90s where just surviving and/or taking a point off the RS meant happy days ? so let's not compare these days to that garbage.
8 Posted 31/12/2010 at 19:57:24
I quote the last paragraph:
"[The] major issue for Everton, [is that all the] clubs striving to break through the glass ceiling all have rich sponsors (Villa ? Lerner, Spurs ? Joe Lewis, City ? Sheikh Mansour). As Kenwright put it in the annual accounts, ?maintaining our progress, continuing to punch above our weight will be very difficult?. He added, ?At the end of the day, the club?s finances will be key to everything?. If that is indeed the case, Everton?s fans might have to settle for mid-table mediocrity, unless Moyes can continue to ?work miracles?.
9 Posted 31/12/2010 at 20:24:14
10 Posted 31/12/2010 at 21:01:33
Sorry I missed the debate on the blog, but its as relevant now as it was then.
As for Finances not having anything to do with People Management, WTF, are you for real?
Money makes the world go around. Pay players more than others and they will come and join you, or in the case of your best players, will stick around.
You are completely naive if you believe that finances would not make a difference to our performances - more money, more quality, more competition for places.
11 Posted 31/12/2010 at 21:42:55
Not too many scouse accents as you might expect.
12 Posted 31/12/2010 at 23:06:39
What the fuck does finance have to do with playing a non-performing midfielder (Arteta) week-in, week-out with replacements sat catching splinters in their arse i.e. Rodwell, Fellaini?
What the fuck does finance have to do with keeping the same midfielder taking free kicks and corners week-in, week-out when a player actually on the same field of play can take them with more success in Baines as seen when Arteta was suspended?
Come on, Amit, enlighten me as to What The Fuck finance has to do with those, then add formation and players out of position when replacement players are sat on the bench?
13 Posted 01/01/2011 at 08:03:05
To re-emphasise my point, that's mentioned in the article, we need to stop being bi-polar. If we win against Stoke, nothing's changed. Moyes is still Moyes. A win doesn't make him a genius, a loss doesn't make him a complete villain. One thing we can guarantee under Moyes though is the entertainment value will always be zero and that is what none of us can be happy with.
14 Posted 01/01/2011 at 08:13:25
I respectfully disagree. Finances can have a huge impact on people management, particularly motivation.
If you know a situation at work is not going to get resolved or improved and the very reason it isn't is due to cash, does it make you work harder? I doubt it, I'd go so far to say that even the best of us would have a dip in performance.
15 Posted 01/01/2011 at 09:32:42
To consistently do well in the modern EPL then you either need to be magicians or have high income for players. We have neither, we have no basic right to buck the trend and be a successful club without cash.
What we have done to date is to punch way above our weight based around a very negative system which seems to patently have had its day. Tuesday against West Ham was the pits but so typical of Moyes.
16 Posted 01/01/2011 at 11:35:51
Also, as Gavin mentioned, what has finances got to do with players being played out of position, playing for a draw against the bottom club, bringing subs on with only a few minutes to go?
17 Posted 01/01/2011 at 12:16:21
We have one goalscorer this season, and Moyes was absolutely right to play him up front instead of the three guys who couldn't find the net with a telescope this year. (Cahill did beautifully create the goal, didn't he?) Yes, Moyes did wait too long to get Arteta off and bring on Beckford at the end, but please stop singing that same stupid "three strikers" song. As the Yak so brilliantly illustrated, you were wrong then and you're wrong now.
18 Posted 01/01/2011 at 12:44:33
I was wrong about Yakubu but it doesn't make me any less qualified than you does it Mike or are you that smug and self superior?
19 Posted 01/01/2011 at 12:57:10
20 Posted 01/01/2011 at 12:59:07
Out of the three strikers, one can't play upfront on his own, and the other two can't play ? full stop, therefore having them on the pitch is a liability.
21 Posted 01/01/2011 at 12:46:41
Yes, the 70s and turn of the 80s were on the whole poor but the glorious 1970 "champions feel" lasted us for a few years, we still competed in the transfer market with Martin Dobson, Bob Latchford, Henry Newton (stop it) and others, hope and expectation was battered but intact.
We had heroic battles with Villa in the League Cup Final replays and Big Bob lifted us with his top scorer display against Chelsea to win six-nil (yes, kids... SIX-nil). Certainly I believed ultimately we'd turn the corner simply because we were Everton.
When I see the neighbours' indignation about their present plight, it looks a mirror image of those times to me. Now feels very different to me.
22 Posted 01/01/2011 at 13:17:24
We will always keep coming back as we love Everton and just want those privileged to perform to show us the same passion we have for this club. It doesn't matter who plays, who manages or who owns us, we just want a team that we can't wait to watch.
I used to get a buzz every time I approached the ground and sadly that buzz has gone for now but I know and hope it will return. Tough decisions need to be made from the top down and as my late father used to say " the right decisions are often the hardest to make". This is what worries me as I just don't see our current leaders having the brains or balls to make these decisions.
23 Posted 01/01/2011 at 13:02:24
I have no idea about your other posts, I just read what you wrote on the game thread. And I certainly don't claim to be anything resembling a genius... it doesn't take brilliance or smugness to support the idea of putting our eleven best players on the field. None of our strikers currently qualifies. In fact, I've posted several times this season that I thought Cahill should be our striker. In my humble opinion, Moyes had the right lineup on the pitch to start. And in my ever-so-humble opinion, the reason we didn't win was the poor play of two guys who WERE in their normal positions, Arteta and Pienaar. Moyes' failure was in waiting too long to sub them out.
If you disagree with any of that... well, you're entitled to your opinion.
24 Posted 01/01/2011 at 13:41:14
Opposition sides have negated DM's only plans; mark up Baines and Pienaar and wipe out the right wing, let Saha fuck about on the ball as he isn't any threat, when Cahill was played up front against West Ham they doubled up on him wiping out any threat and he dropped back to his natural position in midfield, on occasion to the wing at which point using his natural position he was able to deliver a cracking cross for Coleman to strike unmarked. West Ham's deficiencies are there to be seen but not exploited. Any striker and a more purposeful formation would have pulled their backs and possibly one of their centre halves out of position to give space to a striker to score.
Then the only useful striker that came on Beckford barely got a chance to touch the ball given DM's timewasting rather than game changing decision. Arteta should not have started the game and Pienaar should have been replaced much earlier.
Is that more of a scenario you agree with Mike?
25 Posted 01/01/2011 at 16:59:12
26 Posted 01/01/2011 at 17:14:20
27 Posted 01/01/2011 at 17:22:31
I don't care what Liverpool do as long as we are successful, play good football and have a manager who has a clue.
Being obsessed with the situation across the park covers up the problems at home. If we've played like shit and lost a game then a loss for Liverpool doesn't make it better. Stop being deluded and get in the real world. There is only one club that matters and it's not the red one...
28 Posted 02/01/2011 at 20:03:35
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