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By Dave Wilson :  26/01/2011 :  Comments (70) :
I was never really a fan of Davey Moyes. From Day One I was uncomfortable with the ugly brand of football he brought to Goodison Park but, like everyone else, I tolerated it; I could see the club needed to be stabilized. Moyes has never enjoyed the support of all Evertonians; he's always had his critics... for a long time I was one of his biggest ? but not anymore.

I believe Davey Moyes today is unrecognisable from the strict drill sergeant who strode into Goodison Park nearly a decade ago. His approach to the game is far more sophisticated and as he has progressed as a coach, I've found myself warming to him, even defending him against what I believe to be increasingly unfair, ill-informed . .I`m hesitant to use the word criticism, because what I hear and see every day borders on abuse. His critics question his intelligence, his integrity, even ? rather ironically ? his courage.

Many people believe that the financial position of a club should have no bearing on the way that club's manager approaches the game. I'm one of them, but how many would deny that having money to buy world clas strikers can transform an ordinary side into a good one, also-rans into Champions League contenders? Man United, Man City, Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea have all spent tens of millions on their "match winners" ? the sort of player who can break the hearts of teams that are defending as if their lives depend upon it.

David Moyes has never been afforded such a luxury, sure he was able to buy Yakubu, but the Yak was never out of the very top draw. Top draw strikers, such as Tevez, Torres, Berbatov or Drogba, cost £20-30 million. Moyes was also unlucky Yakubu didn't fully recover from his Achilles injury; so, while the top clubs were going into battle with razor-sharp world class strikers, Moyes was trying to get the job done with a blunt instrument ? remind me again, how much did Saha, Anichebe, Beckford and Vaughan cost us?

Moyes has often been called tactically naive and negative but by whom? Certainly not the country's top coaches. While Sir Alex Ferguson played with just Berbatov up front at Goodison Park this season, Moyes was bolder, he went two up top. (Anybody claiming Cahill didn't play as another striker that day needs to have a word with Vidic ? he probably still has the bruises.) SAF had good reason to play safe; Moyes had sent out a team to destroy his multi-million pound outfit last time he came to GP.

Then there's Dirty Harry... he too set up against us with just one attacker. Perhaps he was mindful of is pathetic record against Moyes despite spending money like a drunken sailor wherever he has been. Man City didn't attack us until we were two up, Mancini and Ancelotti ? those famous master tacticians ? haven't managed a victory against the Ginger Fella between the pair of them.

These are some of Europe's finest and, despite their overwhelming advantage, Moyes is outsmarting them. They know who he is alright, they know he has learned his trade... yet we STILL have people, some of whom have never so much as taken the subs for their works five-a-side team, calling him tactically naive ? a bit like me calling Hussein Bolt a slouch.

You know it always makes me laugh when I hear David Moyes's critics say "they're his players, he bought them, so it's his fault they are playing shite". Does anybody really believe any of our players were Moyes's first choice? Is there an Evertonian who believes that this would be the Moyes squad if he had the funds? Often he has bought what he could afford, HOPING he may get a tune out of them.

I went along with the criticism of Moyes for his first 4-5 seasons, but I can clearly see the improvement. He isn't a bad workman blaming his tools... he simply doesn't have the tools. He has however become a proper coach; his team now plays on the carpet. Imagine Everton with Drogba? How many points would we have if we could afford Tevez?

David Moyes is begining to resemble the Knight from the Monty Python film, first his arms and then his legs were chopped off. Yeah, he's still got his faults, but he's still in there fighting. If only the same could be said for all those Evertonians threatening to throw the towel in.

Reader Comments

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Gavin Ramejkis
1   Posted 27/01/2011 at 00:02:34

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Dave, it doesn't even begin to explain why, if he has such high morals, he fucked about before deciding to take the £65k a week salary despite the constraints of not being able to buy the players he wants (your conjecture).

Such high principles and having to make do and mend yet sign on the dotted to a very handsome salary making him the fourth highest paid manager in the EPL, last time I looked he's only ever taken the team to fourth in the EPL once and, given this season, there must be a lot of chairmen happy they have bargains on their hands.

Ian Tunstead
2   Posted 27/01/2011 at 00:03:03

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This must be one of the best and most realistic articles I've ever read on this site. It is good to see that there are Evertonians out there who have some sense.
James Stewart
3   Posted 27/01/2011 at 00:11:15

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I'm afraid he is very firmly on the descent of his arc.

Everton are a complete laughing stock at present and quite frankly I would just like some pride back. Yes, he doesn't have the funds to strengthen but by god the squad is unbalanced! Why have £10M players on the bench when you can't even field a team with players in their natural positions!

Moyes has had plenty of chances to sell to buy but he is too stubborn for that and will never be a progressive manager. Too much misplaced loyalty and stubborn to the extreme.

Andy Peers
4   Posted 27/01/2011 at 00:00:35

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Sorry, Dave, but I don't agree.

First off, if you think Moyes's tactics against City, Spurs and Chelsea shows his managerial craft then explain how his tactics against all the other Premier teams suck. His squad of players this year was supposed to be the best squad since the Eighties so not having the talent is another redundant excuse.

I can only judge Moyes by his team selections, his tactical substitutions, his motivational talent in team spirit and his league table position... and, if you were honest with yourself, you would agree he has failed miserably this season at all of the above.

I dread the Chelsea game this weekend as, if we lose, then another season has produced nothing and then on to the Arsenal game which could be embarrassing, especially if we lose to Chelsea right before. I am afraid that, if we do lose both games, then he should stand down...

After all, these are the games that will make or break our season, so he has to be on his sharpest tactical best and losses will just show he can no longer manage EFC.

Robert Elliott
5   Posted 27/01/2011 at 00:14:25

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Dave, quite agree. Moyes has done a damn good job on limited resources at Everton and I do often wonder where we'd be without him.

Sure, he's got his faults and there are times when he's frustrated me as a fan, but by and large, when he took over the job in March 2002 was there an Evertonian out there, after one top-six finish in the 10 years before then, who wouldn't have accepted four top six finishes in six years between 2004-05 and 2010-11?

And he's acheived that on a net transfer spend of approximately £3m per year. This year has been a big disappointment so far, and may well result in a change of direction over the summer, but if Moyes can find signings of the like of Cahill, Arteta and Pienaar for around £6-7m in total, then hopefully we can get back on track.
Robert Johnson
6   Posted 27/01/2011 at 00:20:36

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Spot on, Dave, I'm sick of sitting next to whinging bastards week-in, week-out. I wish they would all fuck off.

Here's to Saturday when we stick it to those hooray fuckin henrys from that London.

Let''s fuckin av em.

Nil satis and all that shite.
Spragg Johnson
7   Posted 27/01/2011 at 00:34:28

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Of course it's ugly football under Moyes ... he was a dour, stingy defender ... and that's how we play ... not so bad when you think that he's turned Jagielka, Lescott and Baines into England internationals ... Phil Neville suits him as well.

I'm not so worried about how we play if we get results. We were superb in the second half of last year but have stalled without any decent signings to add impetus.

Money, money, money is the issue. I firmly believe Moyes does a decent job with a small, injury prone squad. He's nicked some decent players on the cheap (Pienaar, Arteta, Bent, Cahill etc)

Who else would we attract anyhow ... who could cope with our lack of funds in the transfer market?

It would have to be someone from the Championship ... erm ... Dave Jones?

I'd rather stick with Moyes ... but please Bill, find some more cash for the man!!
Mark Wayman
8   Posted 27/01/2011 at 00:31:36

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A well written and thought out article. I don't completely agree though.

When Moyes first arrived he was like a breath of fresh air, the players were fitter, the pace of our play quicker.

It hasn't always been easy for him with vital players wanting away, lack of money etc.

This season the passing has improved, but we are impotent around the opposition box.

During a game if things aren't going your way, as manager you have to be willing to change players and tactics. I don't believe he does these things until far too late. I also believe he plays players in a position unnatural for them, even when he doesn't have to.

But I'm not saying Moyes out.
David Hallwood
9   Posted 27/01/2011 at 00:52:24

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Very good article, Dave, and as you state it's the lack of finance to be able to attract even half decent players that has been at the bottom of our problems. I think the first 10 games he was wrestling with the problem of right mid (still not solved by Coleman) obviously if he had £10-20 mill to spend he could've easily have solved it.

Then there is a decent forward ? just before Christmas, stats in the paper had us second only to Arsenal of chances and passes inside the opponents box, with a half decent striker we could be at least 10-15 points better off.

Oh 'tis no fun being poor.
Russell Buckley
10   Posted 27/01/2011 at 01:08:37

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Dave, while at times I feel like pulling my hair out watching our team selections and lack of on field motivation, I agree with the main points of your article.

Regardless of your preference in on-field style, you are right that Moyes has developed from when he first joined us. Everton are now a good footballing side. We use space well and play attractive football on the deck.

The problem is we can only play this style of football against sides that also adopt it. Hence why we seem to trouble the top clubs, even this year. That leads me to agree with your second major point. I?ve seen it on this site before and its clear when we play against Arsenal. They play the same type of game Moyes tries to but at an even higher and more precise level.

The reason for this isn?t the way Moyes coaches the side. It's simply that Arsenal have better players. They are on a whole younger, quicker and with greater technical ability. It?s the same reason why we do ok against the top clubs but can?t break down teams that come to Goodison and park the bus. We are good in an open, flowing game but our players aren?t at a technical level to work in tight spaces or make opportunities that split defensive lines featuring nearly an entire team. You need big money to get those players. Moyes can?t be expected to find an entire team of stars hiding in lower leagues.

Moyes isn?t perfect in the transfer market or in balancing the side but it can?t be argued that he doesn?t have an ability for finding diamonds in the rough. Imagine what he could do if he had the money that Harry has. There is a good reason Harry sniffs around anything Moyes is looking at.

It's widely reported that the man works himself to death for Everton. All the top managers and the press love Everton. There is reason behind this. While we watch everything about the club like hawks, the outside world see the big picture.

When it's boiled down, David Moyes is a decent if not better than average manager that, when compared to his rivals, is doing the equivalent of running a marathon with a big fat bastard strapped to his back. That proverbial monkey is one Bill Kenwright.
Jamie Sweet
11   Posted 27/01/2011 at 01:14:18

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This article quite rightly gives credit for good performances and results against top teams.

It lacks balance and therefore credibility by completely ignoring the totally inept performances which have littered this absolute dog of a season.

If Moyes has a team capable of beating the likes of Spurs and Man City ? which he clearly does... why oh why can he not find the formation and tactics to beat teams with considerably less talent in their ranks?

May I suggest, Dave, it's because Moyes isn't quite as good at his job as you seem to think he is?
Steven Pendleton
12   Posted 27/01/2011 at 01:33:12

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He's a reactive manager rather than a proactive one which has found him out this year.

The amount of times he dithers in making a sub and 5 mins later we concede a goal. Fucking kills me knowing that a sub should be made but he continues to wait till the 70th minute to make one. Must be in the Manager's manual 101 that move maybe?
Jay Harris
13   Posted 27/01/2011 at 01:34:05

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I agree with Mark Waymen (#8) that you are doing Moyes a disservice claiming that he was dour when he first came.

I actually thought he rejuvenated the whole club and for me has many firsts.

The first to demonstrate that superfitness goes a long way to getting results in the Prem.

The first to use 4-5-1 effectively.

The first to want to establish a youth development academy and recognize it is more of a young man's game these days.

However, I think things went sour when DK was first put out and Wyness then Green started to get control and would not sanction the progress he wanted to embark on following our 4th place finish.

To me he has looked a semi-broken man over the last two seasons and I think it's a shame but we have to move on with new ownership and a "new" David Moyes.
Derek Thomas
14   Posted 27/01/2011 at 01:35:28

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Fair enough-ish. He may have steadied the ship football wise but he still has his blind spots.

But while he was/is steading the ship Bill has been guilty of sins of omission and the same ship is now fianancially UNSTEADY.
Alan Clarke
15   Posted 27/01/2011 at 06:36:43

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I've been massively critical of Moyes before but I think your monty python analogy is spot on. Whilst I don't think his approach is 'sophisticated', Kenwright is the real problem. This transfer window has really brought it home, the awful position Moyes is in with a boss who cannot back him.

What I don't understand, Dave, is why you then defend Kenwright in other threads when you clearly hold him responsible?
Dick Fearon
16   Posted 27/01/2011 at 08:00:35

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Steve P #12 ? You rightly state that Moyes is not proactive. In exactly the same words I have described him thus in each of the past 8 years.

Early in the game, successful managers see where things could be improved and they don't dither about making changes. Those changes could be positional or substitutional. Where certain players are concerned Moyes seems to have a blind spot.

Here in Oz, it is said that blind Freddie can see what's going wrong. I get the same feeling about Moyes and his support of players who quite obviously are not up to the job. Take for example the undroppable Osman who was a failure on the right, less than useless in the middle and now crapping on the left. Baines can kiss goodbye to his England chances with Osman leaving him out to dry as he did with Hibbo.

To paraphrase a well known saying, One Tim Cahill is worth Twenty Osmans.

David S Shaw
17   Posted 27/01/2011 at 09:01:16

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The manager should be on more money than the players. If the team don't play they hide behind the manager who takes the blame. So I don't have a problem with Moyes's salary.
Dave Wilson
18   Posted 27/01/2011 at 09:21:04

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I hate to see one person get the blame for everything, not because I`m some kind of crusador for justice, but because I hate to see some twat getting a free ride after taking the piss out of us Evertonians. You won't find me defending Kenwright, not ever.


you make a good point, you certainly won't get any argument from me. It's not the fair criticism of Davey Moyes that bothers me, it's the lengths people are going to, to deny he has qualities. If we win they claim "he only played that team or that way because he had too" ? it's getting ridiculous.

Our manager is competing with and beating the best despite being at an incredible disadvantage... yet the footballing "experts" are queing up to call him tactically inept.

If Moyes had a Tevez, every "lesser" team that has come to GP knowing they may catch us on the break because we don't have the killer punch, would have been well and truly put to the sword. Our first team squad is diminishing, Moyes wont be able to take on the big boys any longer. He`ll likely be off.

I know we could never be on a level playing field and as Gavin rightly points out, Moyes knew that too, but dont you wish ? even if it was only for one season ? we could have given him a top class marksman? personally I believe He`d have been the dogs bollocks.

Nice try, no cigar.

Andy Crooks
19   Posted 27/01/2011 at 10:24:55

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Dave, a thoughtful and reasonable article with some fair points. However I disagree with the main thread of it. David Moyes has improved, no doubt. One would expect this as he gained Premier League experience. I feel though that he hasn't changed his fundamental mindset. His approach is mainly safety first.

Against supposedly lesser sides who play like the old Everton, he seems to me to lack imagination. Yes, our passing game has improved but we have little penetration. In my view, the quality striker whom you think would make all the difference would quickly grow frustrated at our huffing and puffing sideways movement or the aimless hoofball that still surfaces now and again.

Unfortunately our perilous league position might necessitate a return to the Moyes of old. I'd take 44 points right now and start afresh.

Brian Waring
20   Posted 27/01/2011 at 10:51:31

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So Dave, if Moyes is as good as you make out, please explain why we have only taken a paltry 8 pts from these Premier League giants, who all obviously have tons of top quality players and cash:

West Brom
West Ham x 2

That 8 pts from a possible 30. We are 5 pts above a relegation place, have 27 pts from a possible 69, a massive 42 pts dropped this season.

Also, you say the Yak was never top drawer, not being funny, but he was only second to Henry, as leading Premier League goalscorer.

At the end of the day, Dave, if you can only muster 8 pts from a possible 30 against the teams mentioned above, there is more to it than not having a top notch striker.
Brian Waring
21   Posted 27/01/2011 at 11:02:57

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Make that 8 pts from a possible 33, Dave.
Lee Courtliff
22   Posted 27/01/2011 at 11:00:36

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Good article, mate. I am very confused at times by Mr Moyes's decisions but overall he has done superb job. Now if we could just grab a cup like Pompey or M'boro have done over the last few years, it would be well deserved. COYB
Gareth Fieldstead
23   Posted 27/01/2011 at 10:53:37

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I cannot agree with you, Dave. As numerous replies have already stated, when he has had money to spend he has frankly wasted it. The Rooney money was a complete write-off resulting in our worst position in the last six years, ditto the Lescott money.

Moyes needed to sell to buy at the start of this season but was to obstinate to do so. He had a bench worth £40 million against Blackburn which is fine for City but the first eleven was disjointed and Moyes frankly didn't have a clue what his best team was.

We are desperate for two genuine wingers, a quality central midfielder, and a striker who will guarantee us 20 goals a season; Moyes stuck with what he had, patting himself on the back that none of his main players at that point had left the club.

If we look at Arsenal as a great example at a boss who has lost major players almost on a yearly basis but continues to just use the money to rebuild and continue year on year to qualify for the CL. Since they won the double in 98 they have lost Anelka, Overmars, Petit, Veira, Henry, Edu, Adebayor, Toure and Gallas to name but a few. Wenger's overall spend is around that of Moyes.

Moyes signed Krøldrup, Davis and more recently Bilyatedinov but didn't have a clue where to play them and, no doubt like the first two, Bily will be moved on at a big loss as well.

Alan Clarke
24   Posted 27/01/2011 at 11:43:06

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Are there 2 Dave Wilsons on this site? It's just I could swear you criticised me on another thread 3 days ago for wanting Kenwright out.

Even for those who don't like Moyes, it is clear that the priority at Everton is not a new manager but a new owner. Our energies should be put into getting Kenwright out ? not Moyes.
Rob Hill
25   Posted 27/01/2011 at 11:35:40

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It's interesting to read the comparisons to Arsenal. For the last few years, with a younger side trying to play football to the point that they would overplay, Wenger's team had struggled to beat the likes of Bolton, Wigan etc. When they were the invincibles, they beat these sides with pace and power from the midfield, but still needed the guile of Bergkamp & the pace of Henry, Lunjberg and previously Wright.

It's only this season, that Wenger has managed to consistantly beat these so-called lower sides. Ironically, he now seems to struggle against the top sides. Now, who was doubting his tactical ability?

I fully agree with the sentiment that if we had a top striker, we would not be anywhere near the position we are in now. If just a few of those half-chances we have created ? through playing football on the deck ? could have been put away, how many more points would we have?

Yes, all ifs buts and maybes. But I think that is the point of this thread, is it not? Moyes has said that he wants this player, but he can't get him. If someone has £20M, give it to the man! Kenwright certainly can't do this.

Take Torres out of the RS, Rooney out the Mancs (in previous years), Tevez out of City etc etc. That's why they cost so much & get paid so much. As a previous poster said, how much did our strikers cost?

We've developed into a footballing team but we have no end product as a result of the lack of this key player. The Yak was the nearest thing that we had to a top striker and when he was fit, he scored bags of goals. But he clearly isn't the striker he was ? he can score all he likes for Leicester, I still won't believe he is the player he was and won't be again.

I certainly don't think Moyes is perfect. But I can see what he has done, what he has created and what he is trying to do. The hatred towards him is unbelievable. Sadly, if he walked out, whoever else would come in would face the same wrath soon enough. I'm all for wanting the best from my team, but I'm realistic enough know a good thing when I see it. But it's all down to opinions isn't it?

Dave Lynch
26   Posted 27/01/2011 at 11:51:32

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Dave @ 18 ? Moyes has bought so-called top class marksman:

If your'e going to argue they are not top class, then why the fuck did he pay massive money for them? He turned them all into headless channel runners.

Paul Gladwell
27   Posted 27/01/2011 at 11:58:36

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I have been a big critic of the man even though there is no question he has done good job for us: nothing more, nothing less.

However, I believe he has received too much credit at times in the media and that seems to show in his stubbornness on certain things he does ? in a sense, I think he may have believed his own hype at times.

On Saturday, though, our crowd got speaking to someone close to him who told us how fed up he is and would walk if it was not for the fact it would be basically shitting on the fans and people who have supported him. This was all because of the financial side of things and for once I felt sorry for him when I saw our bench, the players we have had to let go, and every team in the league looking to strengthen whilst we look to weaken.

Bill Kenwright, the buck stops with you, so where are you, our leader and your theatre bullshit talk? You only come out when things are rosey, what sort of leader is that?

Brian Waring
28   Posted 27/01/2011 at 12:11:43

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Also wanted to add Dave, that I think Moyes deserves loads of credit for what he has done at the club.

At the end of the day though, he is a good manager, but is never going to be a great manager, I also think that would be the case even if he had loads of cash to spend.

For me, its getting to the point where he is untouchable in the eyes of some of our fans: we do well, it's down to him; we're shite, it's not down to him. Even Tony Marsh has praised him when he has deserved it, but I think along with the praise, should come the criticism, no matter how harsh.
Dave Wilson
29   Posted 27/01/2011 at 11:23:46

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Agreed, it's the teams made in Moyes's own EARLIER image that give us the most trouble, but don't you think the lack of intelligent movement up front causes the dreaded sideways pass? Do you think our midfield players would play sideways if say Tevez or Rooney were making killer runs?


I`m not sure how many ways there are to explain my viewpoint. A top striker would without doubt change a lot of those draws into wins and defeats into draws.

You have named ten teams, but I doubt you would put a brass razzoo on any of them finishing above Moyes`s side and the reason you won't is because Moyes finishes above them season after season... without a top striker.
Andrew Presly
30   Posted 27/01/2011 at 12:17:03

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I respect Moyes, he's a dignified, honourable if dour figurehead but, after all this time, it's pretty clear he's a nearly man, sadly. He's just too inherently cautious (negative?) when it counts.

The OP makes reference to the lack of a top class goalscorer but in the season when Yak got 21 goals and we had a great run in the Uefa Cup (as it was then), Moyes (and the lot of them tbh) bottled it over in Italy and only when we had nothing to lose did we actually go for Fiorentina in the 2nd leg... too little, too late.

Same with the FA Cup Final. 1-1 at half-time with the momentum swinging their way and he brings on Jacobsen rather than moving Neville back to right-back and attacking them. At least vs Fiorentina we went down fighting.......

Sorry if the above sounds picky but just the first two examples that come to mind when assessing whether Moyes has got the extra whatever % it is that sorts out the winners from the runners-up, so to speak.

Agree that it is completely ridiculous to expect us to compete and regularly beat the likes of this weekend's opponents but that's what every club bar about 4 must feel like, not just us. The top flight is dull stuff these days but we're stuck with it, being Evertonians, for better or worse!
Brian Waring
31   Posted 27/01/2011 at 12:25:37

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Dave, fans of most of the teams in the Prem could say the same, if only we had a top striker, we could have.......

Moyes deserves credit for finishing above the teams I mentioned, every season. This season though, I would put money on at least 4 of those teams finishing above us.

If you're a betting man, I'll have a tenner with you, that Sunderland, Newcastle, Bolton and Blackburn all finish above us. If you win, I send the tenner to a charity of your choice, and ditto if I win.
Brian Waring
32   Posted 27/01/2011 at 12:34:58

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Dave, PS ? as long as that charity isn't Kenwright!!!
Kevin Tully
33   Posted 27/01/2011 at 14:48:48

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Davey Moyes is a good Premier League manager.

He is a very cautious man, but I don't think you can doubt his integrity.

However, there is one stat that really annoys me. In nine years we haven't beat Chelsea, Manu, Liverpool or Arsenal away in forty - odd attempts. You can't blame this on money because we have the talent.

You can't blame all our woes on ready cash. We have good players who are worth a hell of a lot more than we paid for them, this is down to Moyes of course, and he should take the credit.

Baines = £ 12 m
Jagielka = £ 15m
Arteta = £ 10m
Fellaini = £ 17m
Cahill= £ 6m
Rodwell =£18m

No excuses for some of the shite I have watched this season.
Andrew Fair
34   Posted 27/01/2011 at 15:22:36

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Great Article. Nice to read some sense on Toffeeweb amongst all the doom and gloom, and the nonsense of administration or relegation talk.
One things for sure we would be much worse off without Moyes.
Paul Gladwell
35   Posted 27/01/2011 at 15:52:28

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Great shout Kevin, if Moyes had went about it in the right way with our best squad we have ever had (so he and us thought) we would not be arsed about losing headless chickens (Vaughan) and players who are well past it (Yakubu).
Not to mention people like myself worrying about losing Neville, as I feel we are going to need him, when really I would be happy for us to take £3M in normal circumstances.
Tony J Williams
36   Posted 27/01/2011 at 17:02:07

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Dave 26

Top class, Meattie???? Don't make me laugh. And when is £6m top dollar? AJ £8.6m, yeah really top whack that isn't it?

Yak is the only £10m+ striker we have bought and now his achiles has been removed, his little burst of pace he had is gone so he can't get passed any defenders, which is sad because we have started to play on the deck football on which a striker of his (past) calibre would have loved.
David Holroyd
37   Posted 27/01/2011 at 16:50:30

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Nobody can say that Moyes has done a good job, but to suggest that we cannot attract another manager if Moyes goes is plain daft. We are still one of the biggest clubs in England, and there are lots of managers who would jump at the chance.But who would sort out all the rubbish ones, we can,t trust Kenwright any more can we
Dennis Stevens
38   Posted 27/01/2011 at 16:59:08

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Moyes is a good manager, but not a great one. He has done a decent job but as he has improved the squad he seems to have less & less idea how to get the best out of them. Moyes is a safety first manager - great if you want to avoid relegation but not so hot if you hope to ever win anything. Moyes delivers mediocrity rather than success - he is not a winner. He may be the right man for our current situation, although I doubt he's as irreplaceable as some would have it. However, if we ever get that change at Board level then I don't really want to see Moyes given an opportunity to blow the budget before inevitably being replaced by somebody better. My fear is that even mediocrity may prove to be beyond him this season.
Tony J Williams
39   Posted 27/01/2011 at 17:22:25

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David 37, unfortunately in the eyes of people who are not Evertonians, we are not considered one of the biggest clubs anymore.
Denis Richardson
40   Posted 27/01/2011 at 16:57:24

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Sorry Dave - nice try but this season cannot agree with most of what you say. Was going to reply then saw that the post from Brian 20 was pretty much what I had in mind.

The Yak was one of the best strikers in the PL - just look at the stats. Yes he had an injury but he can still score, I believe he has scored in each of his league appearance for Leicester so far and he would have been a damn site more useful that Anichebe.

I will always appreciate what Moyes has done in the past but today is today. The stats this season against so called 'lesser' teams are simply awful and the quality of the squad is not the issue. You cannot tell me that man for man West Brom, Blackburn, West Ham etc have better players.

The manager IMO does not have a game plan to deploy against teams that essentially look to do what we do - defend first. Yes maybe moral may be down due to lack of cash but its the managers job to motivate the players.

We know he does not have much cash but its not like we have a crap squad and there are numerous baffling selection / tactics / substitutions that are a constant rather than a one off.

I would love to eat humble pie and see us storm up the table but looking at the next couple of fixtures does not leave me with much hope. Before people start, I am being realistic not pessimistic - we are in a relegation fight.
Colin Potter
41   Posted 27/01/2011 at 17:41:48

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Your'e right Denis, we are in a relegation fight, but there are still some of the moyes brigade that can't see it, and as for giving him money to spend, I wouldn't trust him with what I get each week. Mediocrity is the highlight of his career.
Antony Matthews
42   Posted 27/01/2011 at 18:12:27

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Ask yourselves this. When DM passes away in years to come will he be revered as one of the greatest and longest serving managers of our club or will he be remembered as the manager who tried but failed. Maybe thats why DM is hanging on because he desperately wants to be remembered affectionately. If we do manage to win anything in the next two years with Moyes at the helm would all this agony be worth it? Only time will tell im afraid.
Leon Perrin
43   Posted 27/01/2011 at 18:55:44

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I just think the whole financial argument is too readily accepted in this country, you'd think financial inequality was born with the advent of the Premier League. Of the 16 clubs who've become English Champions since the war, half arrived from the lower division and won it within 3 years, even Blackburn did it in the Prem but financial inequality wasn't an issue.

There is a whole lucrative industry of journos, pundits, managers all spouting the same easy going guff, usually "the coach needs time" and when that fails, as in Moyes, the catchall "resources" comes in. It's a cosy protection racket each keeping their snouts in the trough, and this post smacks of it.

It's a heap of shit and shields the likes of Moyes and the coterie of non-entities masquerading as managers; there's only Wenger from the British leagues I'd confidently back to rebuild a club like ours. But it's not my job evaluating managers, I'm sure the club have a comprehensive database of such in case Moyes goes up the East Lancs Rd.

Dave Wilson
44   Posted 27/01/2011 at 19:51:17

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Yeah your right money is just an excuse, a shield .
what a pair of pricks SAF and Jose Mourinho are, between them they`ve blown over 200million quid of Chelsea and Man United's fortunes . . and for what ?? ?

Dave @26

Beattie and AJ were most definitely not top class, Moyes couldn't afford top class so he did what he usually does, he took a gamble, on players from lower level teams, he paid a combined total of 13.5m for them, it didnt work, so he sold them on for a combined total of . . .14.5m.

Dont you think the fact that you can count on one hand the number of prem goals they have scored between them since they left kinda gives lie to the claim that Moyes didnt know how to use them ?


You`re on
Brian Waring
45   Posted 27/01/2011 at 20:34:58

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Sweet Dave. At least a charity will benefit from our pain.
Brian Waring
46   Posted 27/01/2011 at 20:39:35

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While I think on Dave, so I said Man u, Man city, Arsenal and Chelsea as the 4 teams to finish above us???
Dean Adams
47   Posted 27/01/2011 at 20:42:12

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Dave Wilson

Thank you!
Leon Perrin
48   Posted 27/01/2011 at 21:54:54

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Yeah Dave, ignore content just gets in the way.

Fergie at Aberdeen, Mourinho at Porto broke the bank did'nt they? what a joke.
Rob Murphy
49   Posted 27/01/2011 at 22:58:44

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Who the fuck is Hussein Bolt???
Tony Wilson
50   Posted 28/01/2011 at 00:07:11

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Well written Dave.

If you mean Bolt, the runner, go ahead and call him a slouch if you want. We all have opinions.

If you mean Sadam, the former dictator, well that's okay too now I suppose.
Roman Sidey
51   Posted 28/01/2011 at 07:13:35

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Love how you mention the fact that other managers have praise for Moyes. Doesn't anyone realise that the only managers that genuinely hate each other are the ones that they can't beat, or lose regularly to? Fark!
Jose and Arsene used to bicker like anything because they were probably at the two best clubs at the time. SAF and Rafa were always at it because their ties are always so fierce. The only manager that Moyes doesn't get along with is Mancini and that's because Mancini can't beat US.
Guaranteed, people like SAF praise Moyes all the time because they aren't scared of him.
Dave Wilson
52   Posted 28/01/2011 at 09:25:34

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Tony / Rob

I was of course talking about the Jamaican sprinter... not the former dictator, I read it twice before I submitted the article and still didn't see it.

Rob Hill
53   Posted 28/01/2011 at 10:26:16

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Leon @ 43

As much as I hate to say it, Sky have revolutionised football on and off the pitch.

The finances are in a different world since 1992 & the idea of using league winners since the war as supporting evidence against the 'shield' that Moyes is apparently using is incredible.

In the 'old days', clubs could come up from the old Div 2 and compete on a relatively level playing ground as the money was comparatively evenly spread.

Since the dawn of the Premiership, correct me if I'm wrong, but only Blackburn have won the league soon after promotion & this was due to a huge amount of cash being thrown at them by Jack Walker. The only other side to come close was Newcastle, again, massively funded by Sir John Hall.

Look at how many sides have won the Premiership/Premier League since the finances of the sport changed.

The sad thing is, Everton have never put themselves in a position to financially compete off the field. Whilst ManU seemed to have a fantastic commercial blueprint from the very start, we were still selling our shirts over a wooden counter in the corner of Goodison.

We moved too late to try and jump on the gravy train and have struggled ever since.

As a result, we have not had the finances. Those who have the money, and have given their managers 'time', have been successful.
David Price
54   Posted 28/01/2011 at 11:15:15

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Good article, Dave, as others have said though, to ignore the dropping of points against teams we despatched easily before has to be analysed for complete balance.

As consistent as Moyes has been, we are prone to a "blip season" like the 11th placed finish after a 4th spot the season prior. Moyes is already seeking out the bargain buys, there are a few lads in the background waiting their turn, which I'm sure will form part of a future article proclaiming his overall wisdom in the transfer market.
Moyes is probably taking stock now for next season and like us hoping we have, out of no-where an added bonus of the FA Cup. The Manager has steered us through rocky waters before; we have to trust him again.

Richard Dodd
55   Posted 28/01/2011 at 12:28:41

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Well, there`s a turn-up ? a convert,at last!

Dave, my only difference with you is that I believe Moyes has been a great manager since day one. You have only to look at our Premier record under ALL previous managers to realise he stands head and shoulders above them... And don`t give me all that Joe Royle hype ? his side played more ugly than anything Moyes has turned out!

Gavin Ramejkis
56   Posted 28/01/2011 at 12:59:33

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Dave, people got confused as its Usain Bolt
Dave Wilson
57   Posted 28/01/2011 at 13:18:28

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Yes I realised that . .but only after I read Rob Murphy`s poat.


Na, not a total convert, I still get pissed off with things, our annual snail out of the traps routine drives me nuts. Moyes deserves some of the criticism levelled at him. I just feel that given the obvious confinements in which he has to operate, he doesn't derserve any where near the abuse he gets.
Leon Perrin
58   Posted 28/01/2011 at 13:29:53

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Rob @ 53

When Liverpool were winning everything but the boat race the discrepancy between them and Forest was at least comparable with us and any of the present elite.

Clough brought them up and they became Champions almost immediately, it wasn't on sky so it is of course irrelevant.

Painfully I must cite Benitez defeating Chelsea en route to Champions league finals and his Valencia becoming Spanish Champions as examples of money not being the only factor.

It was a shame Newcastle didn't break the Man Utd strangle hold, contrary to your assertion about their spending the heart of the team were the team who got promoted.

One day someone will repeat what Clough, Busby, Shankly did, by strength of character and vision they will overcome, just hope he comes to Goodison.

Tony Hughes
59   Posted 28/01/2011 at 14:14:42

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Richard Dodd, so Royle's team was uglier than anything Moyes has turned out? I don't seem to recall Royle's team getting twatted 7-0 1-6 (at home!) or several 5-goal and 4-goal hammerings either!

Oh yes, and Joe actually won us a trophy!!

Rob Hill
60   Posted 28/01/2011 at 14:05:22

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Leon, my point was that it was 'easier' pre-Sky, hence Forest being able to do that.

Alongside that, Benitez took a Liverpool team that had a HUGE amount of money spent on them. A one off game against a team who had spent even more isn't supporting evidence. Newcastle had also spent a decent amount before they got promoted & then went on to spend more during the next season.

I can't comment on Valencia as I don't know anything about Spanish football finances.

Trust me, I wish Sky hadn't come along & I certainly don't think that anything pre-Sky is irrelevant.

In my opinon, unless there is a massive shift in the way the game is run, there won't be a team outside the current top 5 who will win the league in the next 5-10 years, never mind a promoted team.
Dan Parker
61   Posted 28/01/2011 at 16:25:39

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The article title keeps making me think of the cowardly Lion in the Wizard of Oz. Trying to think of a non-offensive analogy to Blue Bill but I can't!

Our club is a bit of a panto at the moment though.
Tony Wilson
62   Posted 28/01/2011 at 17:35:08

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Gavin 56, I assure you I wasn't confused about the sprinter remark. I was merely pulling daves leg as I enjoyed his article. Some of us on this site enjoy reading different points of view from our own and are not constantly pushing an agenda.
Gavin Ramejkis
63   Posted 28/01/2011 at 18:09:48

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Tony and agenda would be more a political stance from an empowered person trying to get into power or retain power and proceed with it, this particular medium is all about viewpoints not agendas unless we have multi millionaires in our midst willing to pay BK off into the sunset
Rob Murphy
64   Posted 28/01/2011 at 18:10:38

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Me 2 Tony ;-)
Tony Wilson
65   Posted 28/01/2011 at 18:31:43

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Are you being deliberately ironic gavin? Please tell me you are.
In posting regular anti-board comments you are empowering yourself. I suggest you are indeed pursuing an agenda in that you want us to join you in your position towards the board in the hope that their roles become untenable. I am pleased we have passionate fans like yourself. I am disappointed though that every article features posts that stray off point in the form of bizarre propaganda.
Andy Crooks
66   Posted 28/01/2011 at 20:20:44

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Tony Wilson, how on earth is Gavin "empowering" himself by posting regular anti- board comments?
Peter Warren
67   Posted 28/01/2011 at 22:19:43

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disagre entirely with article heading I think Moyes biggest failing is his COURAGE. Not dropping his favourites, not being bold making substitutions early, setting the team up to lose rather than win, goign for draws instead of wins etc etc etc
Gavin Ramejkis
68   Posted 28/01/2011 at 23:17:53

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Tony, simple explanation is that I post my viewpoint, its not an agenda as I have nothing to gain either way, in a similar fashion Doddy posts his viewpoint not an agenda. Empowering would be if an outcome was as a direct result of what I had posted. My hopes and aspirations are my own, my viewpoints I'm more than happy to post on and discuss and even argue about but empower and agenda aren't grammatically correct.
Mark Scarratt
69   Posted 28/01/2011 at 23:16:02

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we are at a crossroads
4-5-1 was great when we had Bent up front
we have moved on
we now have the players, but until recently we played the wrong system
Arteta's legs have gone, injury or fat contract ???
If Rodwell is that good, play him in the middle with Fellaini
Move Arteta wide left
Carry on with 2 up front.
when Cahill comes back play him centre mid in home games and play him in a 4-5-1 in the hard away games
Persist with Coleman
Since Cahill went away we have scored 11 in 4 games.
2 up front works
stick with it
we so need a decent striker, but even if we had £100M, who are we going to get. All the best strikers want champions league.
Yakubu was looking good and got dropped at Blackpool for Saha.
Yak had just scored the winner vs stoke and looked to be back to his best.
Must have fell out with DM. Don't blame him for going out on loan
Strikers need games and the chance to form a partnership.
We have denied this to all our forwards.
Yak on his own
Saha on his own
Beckford on his own
Yak and Saha
Yak and Becks
Saha and Becks
Vic and Saha
Becks and Saha
Becks and Vic
Vic and Vaughan
Yak and Cahill
Saha and Cahill
Vic and Cahill
Fellaini and Cahill
Fellaini and Saha

Mike Allison
70   Posted 29/01/2011 at 17:52:33

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Royle's team was uglier than Moyes' team, by a long way. If Moyes team was uglier they wouldn't have got twatted when they have. Also, Royle played battling, tackling midfielders where Moyes plays the likes of Arteta, Fellaini and Rodwell.

Royle was also here for about two years, if that, and was able to purchase one of the top players in the league at the time. Its the equivalent of us picking up a Chelsea or Man United first team player now. Moyes has put far more of himself into Everton than Royle did, and been outspent by far more teams. People have such short memories and such a lack of appreciation it's shameful.

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