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FAN ARTICLES

EvertoniansforChange — the club's first response.

By David Martin :  12/02/2011 :  Comments (51) :
A letter sent by EvertoniansforChange...
Dear Mr Kenwright and fellow members of Everton Football Club?s Board of Directors,

I, Simon Magner, am writing to you on behalf of the fan group known as Evertonians for Change. We are a group of like-minded individuals and concerned supporters who came together in early 2011 as we all fear for the future of our club. We, Evertonians for Change, are a fan group created for the sole purpose of working alongside the club in order to secure a more successful future on and off the pitch. Created in a response to fan unrest, we are a group of passionate Evertonians who want to build an open and honest dialogue with yourselves, regarding some serious questions that we believe all Evertonians have the right to have answered, especially concerning are the questions surrounding our future home and how you intend to take the club forward.

Many fans feel out of touch with the current Board of Directors and are increasingly frustrated at the perceived stagnation of the Club and the inability to sufficiently back the manager in the transfer market. There are increasingly alarming levels of disillusionment and anger currently surrounding the club that you would do well not to ignore.

Change in the way Everton Football Club conducts itself in off-field business is needed, we understand the sensitivity surrounding some of the questions that require answering, but we implore you to not ignore the surge of raw emotion that is currently sweeping through supporters. We seek to bring about positive change at the club through fan involvement and interaction; we are here to restore the voice of the fans so they can make themselves heard by a club that seems increasingly withdrawn and disconnected from its fan base. We would like to meet with a board member or representative from the club as soon as possible in order to discuss our concerns.

We all want what is best for the Club, and no Evertonian wants to see the ugly scenes that have unfolded outside Anfield over the past couple of years replicated on Goodison Road. Once again, do not underestimate the levels of disillusionment, frustration and anger from your supporters. We believe this meeting could go a long way to re-establishing bridges with supporters that a lot of them believe have been reduced to ashes.

Awaiting your reply,

Simon Magner
Evertonians for Change


Evertonians for Change received the following response from the club:

Dear Mr Magner,

Thank you for your letter to our Chairman and the Board of Directors.

The Club maintains a constant dialogue with all its fans across a range of media channels. You will of course be aware of our award winning website which provides a regular audio visual update on our activities along with a twitter feed and Facebook page all of which encourage interactive dialogue which we review and act upon. You may also be aware of the following activities we undertake on a regular basis:

? Monthly Fan Forums ? which hears the views of a wide range of Evertonians
? Between 10-12 Supporters? Club visits per season
? Bi-annual meetings with the Shareholders Association
? Annual Shareholder Forum
? Annual Fan Survey
? Day-to-day engagement from c30 Everton in the Community coaches

Within the first four of these, the Club has repeated facilitated an open debate on all subjects ? there has never been any topic ?off limits?. We believe all the above ensures, quite rightly, that we listen to our fans and respond to what they?re telling us, on a daily basis. Such open and frequent dialogue is important to us and will form an important part of our strategy going forwards. I would maintain we communicate openly and honestly, and on a regular and effective basis.

On the two specific points you raise, you will have seen our plans to improve Goodison Park and we expect to start work in the very near future. We are also in dialogue with the Council, land owners, developers and potential partners looking at new sites. In today's economic climate a solution, in the short term, may be hard to find.

As for taking the Club forward, we have a very clear plan which involves finding and filling bigger stadium and/or finding a new owner prepared to invest in the infrastructure and playing squad of the Club. We are active on both fronts. On a day to day basis, our focus is primarily about growing the size and loyalty of our fan base and filling the stadium on a regular basis. Of course, there is considerable detail under each of those points.

In summary, I feel our communication strategy is extensive, open and robust. I hope in addition that I have addressed your two key points.

Yours sincerely

Robert Elstone
Chief Executive Officer

Evertonians for Change are very disappointed with the club?s letter and will be responding in due course.

Reader Comments

Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer


Jamie Rowland
1   Posted 12/02/2011 at 21:46:13

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So the answer is No, then?

The only part I don't get is 'serious questions all Evertonians have the right to be answered'

'right'? What right? As a customer of the club why do you feel we have, when all said and done, the same right to ask and have answered any questions about the club's business? You wouldn't ask the owner of Curry's why he hasn't grown the company in 2010? Because the answer would be impolite if you got one at all ? and you wouldn't expect an answer either.

As a season ticket holder, does that really entitle me to ask the board what it's up to and expect an answer?

It's a privately run business and doesn have to answer to anyone if it chooses not to ? I can't understand why you would think the club would entertain a grilling from disgruntled fans?? Robert Elstones job is probably hard enough as it is without having to listen to doom and gloomers who believe they have a right to grill him because they bought a coffee mug from the souvenir shop.

Robert Johnson
2   Posted 12/02/2011 at 21:57:15

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I've not seen any plans to improve Goodison Park... or have I missed something?
Robert Johnson
3   Posted 12/02/2011 at 22:05:49

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Jamie Rowland ? I think you're missing the point, mate.
Malcolm Szuplewski
4   Posted 12/02/2011 at 22:09:13

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Robert ? The self-funding box in the corner where Dixie's statue is/was.
Christine Foster
5   Posted 12/02/2011 at 21:53:29

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David, I can understand your disappointment in the response from the CEO, indeed all the initiatives that they outline do make a case for interaction with stakeholders.

But the article rightly points out that the dissatisfaction is growing and that action to quell that needs to be taken by the club. They may have a communication strategy that interacts on a snapshot basis, but these are crisis times for the club and the fans are being left out in the cold and dark like mushrooms. The only thing that's growing is discontent.

I could argue with certain points made by Mr Elstone ( "there has never been any topic ?off limits" er. he should tell BK that...) but the reply was merely a "thank you for your concern" letter.

There is a level at which the club have refused to enter into any dialogue ? and that is "change". Because change is threatening to those with vested interest. The interaction with fans and shareholders omits to acknowledge the attempted gagging of supporters by threatened legal action, the abandonment of the AGM as a forum for shareholders to legally and justifiably ask questions that concern the running of the club. Their club.

So you have a reply with a significant spin: no invite to discuss. Unless you are a threat in some way to the clubs financial or PR future, you're unlikely to get a call.

Honestly, the club knows the feeling out there, they haven't got answers and they don't want to open the debate with the fans or answer the difficult and possibly damaging questions about our future. We aren't that important enough to the solutions.

John Keating
6   Posted 12/02/2011 at 22:15:38

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I am not in disagreement with anything that anyone raises re the club. In my opinion, I think the more people that send questions/queries/opinions in, the better.

I am presently in Alexandria, Egypt, and I can assure anyone that, given enough pressure, things CAN change!!!

Gavin Ramejkis
7   Posted 12/02/2011 at 22:20:51

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Christine, the meeting where BK gave his infamous "I'm bored of the question" and refused to answer, was opened by Elstone quoting it was to be "an open forum and no question would be out of bounds" ? he was sat at the same table.

Elstone's letter claims they have open forums via the official website and facebook but messages on both are deleted if they ask "tricky" questions or question the status quo, making both ineligible to be called open forums.

Evertonians for Change adopted a careful approach to contact the club in a non-aggressive manner and chose not to go the route of protest... and this was the reply they gained, which pretty much sums up the club's line. Elstone is merely an employee of BK and a mouthpiece for him so the reply, even if not personally written by BK, is most certainly his stance; if not, then Elstone should be fired ? that won't happen.

Similarly, Keith Wyness was an employee of BK and all his lies, chest puffing and floundering during DK was at the instruction of his employer and main sponsor of that project ? BK. All routes lead back to BK, yet there are still people gullible enough to believe he's completely innocent of anything that has or is or will happen at the club whilst he is Chairman..

David O'Keefe
8   Posted 12/02/2011 at 22:44:46

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So, Jamie, Everton is a business and we have no right to question those that run it?

Now every business is diffferent (football clubs/Curry's), but relations with stakeholders/customers matter because, if you piss them off, they go elsewhere.

"It's a privately run business and doesn have to answer to anyone if it chooses not to ? I can't understand why you would think the club would entertain a grilling from disgruntled fans??"

Those disgruntled fans are keeping that business afloat. They should be answerable to the shareholders, but they're not.

A lamer argument against holding the board to account will no doubt emerge in this thread... Still, an A for effort.

David O'Keefe
9   Posted 12/02/2011 at 23:00:46

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David Martin: I told you so.
Jamie Rowland
10   Posted 12/02/2011 at 23:02:14

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Here's my point... writing in like this is naive.

The name 'Evertonians for Change' might as well say 'Kenwright Out' and no doubt will have put the reader (in this case, Robert Elstone) on the defensive.

The context of the letter is even worse, it tries to justify the existence of such a 'group'... "we want to open a channel to the board..". followed by serious questions etc etc ? he would have read it as "We want Kenwright out and we want to ask why you're so shit as a board..." Like he was ever going to entertain a meeting... The fact that he responded is amazing.

Back to the 'idea' of sending a letter. This is a board that changed the Articles of Association to prevent shareholders from calling an EGM without a major shareholder's backing. A board that dismissed, almost with a raised smile, every question they didn't want to answer at that last AGM... and you think that writing a letter to ask if you can meet up to ask a few questions was going to get a result? Please!?! Are we reallly this daft?

It's like asking for power before obtaining a position of strength. The answer would be to set up the group (I prefer Tony I'Anson's trust idea) and get some serious membership and structure before pretending you're the voice of the people.

Next would be the actual questions? "Hi Bill... do we have any money?" ? "No, next question?"

"Where has our money gone?" ? "We never had any to begin with... next question?"

"Why has nobody bought us?" ? "Nobody out there is interested, next question?"

"Why is that?" ? "Shit stadium, next question"...etc etc...

'Look before you leap' springs to mind... Get the scheme going before you try to make mates with the board (which is what this is about really, who can be first to get a meeting and buzz off it).

Don't know what any of this will achieve... all we really have is hope, hope that somebody rich happens to take an interest.

Rant over!

Jim Lloyd
11   Posted 12/02/2011 at 22:51:55

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"The People's Club???? My arse!!" ? what a frustrated Blue shouted as there was a fuck-up at the ticket office last year... or maybe the year before now. Anyway, if this response doesn't show in what contempt we are held by the current board, I don't know what does.

As long as we go the match, listen to that embarrassing dickhead shout, when the teams are read out "And now, FOR THE MIGHTY BLUES..." ? it's like some kid trying to make himself look hard...bloody embarrassing.

Anyway, as I was saying. It would appear that the Board are not willing to... Well, never mind "it would appear that..." ? it is patently obvious that they expect us to just turn up, pay our money for shirts, pints, pies and the match, then we have to bugger off home and leave "matters Everton" to the Board.

Jamie Rowland. What is all this bollocks about us being customers of EFC? Following your logic, if we are customers, then we should have the right to wander off and and pay our money to purchase a more successful brand. If the (now defunct) "People's Club" banner, spread right across the Park End Stand was put up by the club, are you suggesting that this was merely a marketing ploy?

Bloody Hell, lad... there are many Thousands of Evertonians who go to the match DESPITE the state of club, not because of it. You're an Evertonian until you die. The danger for the club though, is that ? like my brother-in-law, his nephew, wife and daughter ? who have all given up their season tickets... And many more have done the same.

Are you saying that they are not proper blues, at all? No doubt you would accept them taking their money and departing form GP, because there are better products about elsewhere.

And while we are at it, if you ever dared to call Liverpool supporters "Customers," they would treat you with contempt. They wouldn't change allegiance to another club, nor would a supporter of any club in any division. So kindly reconsider the impact of your philosophy, when calling concerned blues "Customers".

Jamie Rowland
12   Posted 12/02/2011 at 23:20:11

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Jim Lloyd ? you do have the right to purchase another brand. Nothing stops you spending your money elsewhere ? which would be the only real way to make the board take note of fan discontent.

I'm calling us 'customers' because that's what we are. We might have passion and obsession but, at the end of the day, we buy into a product as end-users. We don't invest in the club, we buy a product from the club. There is obviously more involved as we do have a bond, because of the way we support our club, and follow in our fathers' footsteps, etc etc ? and, regardless of whether you go or not, does not mean you are a different level of supporter at all ? and I didn't say that it did?!?

The club always issues the statement of intent about improving the fanbase... why? They can't all go the match? So instead they buy products from the club... and the fanbase really just becomes the customer base? We are customers ? we might have belief, passion, love and insanity when supporting the team ? but as a business we are it's customers. Surely?

Jamie Rowland
13   Posted 12/02/2011 at 23:29:05

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As for the People's Club banner ? do you think it was anything else but a marketing ploy? Moyes said it in earnest; Everton abused it by putting it on everything... Season tickets, merchandise, adverts, even the little pieces of card that seal the plastic bags of sweets in the club shop had it strewn all over them.

"The People's Club" was nothing but a marketing ploy ? like the "European tour" logo, and the trademarking of our badge and motto.

It's not a bad thing, it's only what LFC did with "El Nino" etc... It's marketing to take money from the cust... I mean 'fans'.

Derek Thomas
14   Posted 12/02/2011 at 23:20:31

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That Moyes is now mentioning the previously unmentionable 'A' and 'R' words at all ? never mind along with 'true fans stay' ? means at least one person sees the possibility... and, where there is one, there will, no doubt, be more...

The words, Bunker, Berlin 1945, swirl around the bottom of my tea cup...

Gavin Ramejkis
15   Posted 12/02/2011 at 23:29:41

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Stopping your season ticket doesn't stop you being an Evertonian ? it's usually because you either can't afford it or chose not to give the club your money anymore through disenchantment. The latter would be the only way to hurt BK where it really counts with him, it will hurt the club but, more importantly, if he realises that a good portion of the club's reliant income will diminish.

He only has three sources of funding: Sky money, which is already spent for next season; player sales, which will seriously screw the club's league position and threaten it staying in the EPL; and ticket sales.

The only one we as paying supporters can affect is ticket sales. If he doesn't realise he's done for when they drop, then he'll be forced to bankrupt the club or give up and genuinely sell it or hand it to the receivers.

Jim Lloyd
16   Posted 12/02/2011 at 23:36:09

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That's more like it! 'Fans', not 'customers'.

Of course there are marketing ploys, as clubs hire professionals to "market a product." Because Everton "abused the term" it doesn't make it any the less true from David Moyes's perspective, that this was the People's Club.

If you are a customer (I repeat, I know... sorry), you go and buy something that floats your boat; if it doesn't, you go and look elsewhere... unless you have some sort of obsession in buying stuff that doesn't do the job for you. That's the difference.

I would not think there are many Blues who would look across the park and say to themselves "I'll have a bit of that, stuff you lot!". They might stop going though.

Anyway, "customers" or not, the reaction of our Board is the matter in hand. Over the park, the owners are talking with SOS about having a rep on the Board.

As for us not investing, I don't think that it is because there is a lack of interest in doing so. In fact, I would think that there are many Blues who would invest in the club, without expecting a return.

Mike Green
17   Posted 12/02/2011 at 23:39:23

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David

I'm penning my own letter now as head of 'The Evertionians Peoples Insistence for Change' (EPIC) ? echoing many of the same points that my mates... erm, I mean MANY Evertonians and I, would like to put to the Board. In a peaceful way before THE SHIT HITS THE FAN! (Wozza's got a brush and 5 litre tin of Dulux White for the Gwladys St End.)

We will in due course be writing to you again asking why you have REPEATEDLY ignored our requests for discourse on a merger.

We can do it, but only together.
David Israel
18   Posted 12/02/2011 at 23:46:58

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It would have been rather optimistic to expect Robert Elstone to answer in any different way, I suppose. The letter, although written in a polite and business-like manner, clearly showed it was not exactly the work of BK's Fan Club. Furthermore, they might have got wind of the setting-up of Evertonians for Change as well as of the mood behind it, and it's only natural for people in their position to shirk confrontation. I'm not defending them, mind you.

But this nevertheless makes me wonder what the response will be when the Trust is set up and sends in a letter itself. That will be the acid test for the club's famous openness with the supporters...
Jim Lloyd
19   Posted 13/02/2011 at 00:02:09

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Jamie, forgive my term "bollocks" regarding your assertion that we are customers. That immediately winds me up a treat, as it implies that all things in life are customer/supplier based.

Being an ould git, I don't see myself as customer. I accept that this doesn't mean that others don't have the right to see us all in that light.

Let's just hope, whether we see ourselves as customers, or as part of a club, we get a bit of progress... or I fear we are well fecked.

Jamie Rowland
20   Posted 13/02/2011 at 00:19:40

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Jim Lloyd ? you are right, you see yourself as more than a customer and the reason for that is simple: Fans continue to buy the product even when it's poor; customers don't. I accept that entirely.

You, like me, are a fan of Everton FC. The club hosted (not just Everton either) see us as customers that don't go away. This is proved by the fact that LFC included it's waiting list as an intangible asset during it's touting around for a buyer ? 'repeat customers' was the term used during the sale of Man Utd.

I have a deep-rooted passion for Everton, my fellow fan, the ones I go to the game with, the banter, the shouts, the highs and the lows... but the club wants more of me ? not because they love me back but because they want one more of me to spend each year, buy the latest shirt, cap, scarf etc... it's a business now and they just want revenue and profit...

Jim Lloyd
21   Posted 13/02/2011 at 01:14:48

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Aye, you're right there. And I think that's what going to the match means to me: a community... disparate, I know... but a communtiy nevertheless.

You are bang on about the game becoming a business (becoming? it IS a business!) but that shouldn't deter us from saying to the business types "Hey, this is our club and we want to be part of it; yes, you're after our money as you are engaged in a desperate struggle to survive."

That's me lot for tonight, as I'm just about jam crackered.

Steve Smith
22   Posted 13/02/2011 at 01:36:45

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The supporters trust IS the way forward; letters from splinter groups won't wash with anyone, in my opinion. A trust with committed members (hopefully thousands) can and will make a difference; we need to get this idea off the ground as soon as possible.
Peter Stone
23   Posted 13/02/2011 at 02:05:39

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@Mike Green. Mike, I'd like to extend the olive branch of solidarity to all at EPIC. We at KUNT (Kenwright's Ubiquitous Narcissistic Tragedy) are looking for strategic partnerships in the war of attrition against the silver-locked shieshter. Recently we combined forces with COCK (Chiropodists opposing con-man Kenwright) and RINGPIECE (Rogue Individuals Necessitate Gratuitous Pointscoring In Evolving Crisis [at] Everton).

Quite frankly, if we can't unify all our protests we run the risk of it all going tits-up!

Steve Carter
24   Posted 13/02/2011 at 05:44:04

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You're just a naughty boy, Peter Stone.
Mike Green
25   Posted 13/02/2011 at 06:05:07

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Peter

I have consulted Wozza's, Keith and Keiths brother, Neil.

We are all in agreement that as of now we should be part of a unified force. We are EPIC KUNT COCK RINGPIECES.

But we have our demands, which are non-negotiable.

Wozza must be on 'banners', Keith will be on 'anthems' and Neil on 'bacon butty' duty. I'm more relaxed about my role and will either take a back seat as a 'fan' or 'customer' depending on our ideology, which is entirely your call having experience in that side of protest for change.

I look forward to hearing from you, brother.
Alan Clarke
26   Posted 13/02/2011 at 07:37:59

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I don't think Elstone's reply was anything other than what you'd expect. I'm sure the point of this letter is to try and engage with the club in the right way before taking other action.

A lot of pressure is built up through the press. At the moment the press think Kenwright is the ideal chairman and all us stupid fans love him. If we start aggressive action from the start then Kenwright and the press will stick together to label us as idiots ? like those Geordies, emotional hotheads who don't know what's best for them.

However, if there is evidence that Kenwright has failed time and time again to engage with the fans, the press will start to see that Kenwright is the idiot. I've no doubt that the only way forward is a protest but it must be done properly with enough evidence that everything else was tried first. We've all seen the PR job Kenwright did on KEIOC and the image this group now has in the press and even amongst other fans. I'm sure David's letter is the very first step towards something a lot bigger.

We need to stay together on this and really get behind what Evertonians for Change are doing.
Chris James
27   Posted 12/02/2011 at 22:40:12

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Um, what exactly were you expecting, David/Simon?

To be frank, I think the response is both courteous and professional in the circumstances, and Jamie (1) is 100% correct in what he says about the rights as a supporter ? certainly the rights when it comes to demanding a response from the board.

Whilst I think the whole concept of Evertonians for Change and the various other supporter splinter groups (Evertonian People's Front?) that have been proposed on these pages in recent weeks are sound in themselves, there has to be a rather tighter agenda than 'let us meet with the board so they can explain themselves'. Just supposing the board did actually decide to stop running the club and ease up in their 24/7 search for buyers for a few hours and came down to meet you and then explained their plans ? what then?

Doubtless you'd disagree with them on some points and moan about how they had to sort things out faster but, aside from allowing a group of fans to vent, what actually would have been achieved?

Yes, we all know that the club's in mess, but do you think the board don't know that too? Whatever you think of them and their methods, they have a lot more skin in the game than the average fan ? if we go into administration or get relegated, they'll lose millions of investment plus have a sizeable blot on their business records.

I genuinely think the board as a whole is doing it's best under very tough circumstances. Is it good enough? Possibly not? Could they do better? From the outside it looks hard not too.

But surely if you want to set up a group to change things or send a letter, the very least you have to do is have a credible plan to fix the situation ? be it a sensible suggestion for a new stadium, a potential investor (or way to attract them) or, (and this is the most realistic way fans will ever get involved), by gathering contributions and coming to the club with some actual money to buy a stake.

Brian Waring
28   Posted 13/02/2011 at 09:57:21

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Chris: "They'll lose MILLIONS of INVESTMENT" ? Had to chuckle at that.
Stephen Kenny
29   Posted 13/02/2011 at 10:14:57

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In other words... fuck off.
Gavin Ramejkis
30   Posted 13/02/2011 at 10:27:18

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The response to this, any other groups and, dare I say it, to Tony's well thought out Trust, will be exactly the same: they own the shares and they have time after time shown they literally don't give a monkey's toss about anyone else's views.

The lies of being for sale blown out of the water once and for all at the DK hearings. The timely release of "Everton have a few interested parties" from Orville's mate... about us suddenly being for sale ? bang on cue for season ticket renewals (Bullshit Billy couldn't use Riquelme this season as even the thickest sheep know we are potless) ? to Elstone using the phrase "Investment" in his Radio piece shortly afterwards, it's the same old broken record of BK holding on for dear life... and a "Screw You!" to the fans and supporters.

Ernie Baywood
31   Posted 13/02/2011 at 11:17:03

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So who are Evertonians for Change?

We've been told by the club that they respond to all questions that are not commercial in confidence, but that they will not meet with randomly assembled groups.

So what do we do? Do we actually have any reasonable questions to put down on paper? I mean, if it's an open discourse then no harm in it happening by open letter rather than smoke filled room? If we don't then why do people want to sit and break bread with the board if it's not to get photos and autographs?
Ernie Baywood
32   Posted 13/02/2011 at 11:27:20

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Is it a different one to this Evertonians for Change?
http://www.toffeeweb.com/fans/fanclubs/EfC/index.asp
Andy Crooks
33   Posted 13/02/2011 at 11:29:47

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Jamie, referring to supporters as 'customers' isn't accurate or appropriate. I am a customer of Tesco, I go there out of necessity and have no emotional commitment to them. The fact that clubs treat their supporters as customers is shortsighted and wrong.

I just hope the proposed trust gets going because it will give financial credence to emotional commitment. Also, vitally, having a strong fan base prepared to help finance ground development must make us more attractive to possible buyers.

Peter Stone
34   Posted 13/02/2011 at 11:16:26

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@ Mike Green. Having consulted the various members of KUNT, COCK & RINGPIECE ? we are in agreement with your demands.... with one caveat: Neil's role as bacon butty supplier must be extended to provide a complete BLT service.

COCK also enquired if Neil can supply the famed "Bacon Bayonet", should the occassion demand it? That last point however, is not a deal-breaker and not a pre-requisite for moving forwards. If we can reach a compromise on this delicate issue, then I think we may well have a deal.

We have also been thinking of who to nominate as our figurehead and Eugene Ruane has been mooted. If you are reading this Eugene, perhaps you would consider this prestigious role?

Lee Gray
35   Posted 13/02/2011 at 12:21:10

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Jamie... YOU may see yourself and fellow supporters as just a customer, I for sure DON'T! You are as narrow-minded as the idiots in control of OUR club.
Steve Sweeney
36   Posted 13/02/2011 at 12:11:34

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All the letters in the world won't change BK's attitude. For him, why would it be so bad to get relegated? He can't sell the club or get investors to invest. That is apparent has he has been searching 24/7 for many many years now.

So he does have a Plan B: Administration ? Not my fault, I am a True Blue but couldn't find an investor, DK was the Deal of the Century and was the only way to save the club from administration ? The Customers/Fans stopped buying season tickets.

Relegation and £35m for three years.... Fuck the customers ? I'll get my money somehow.

Am I paranoid or is it that I am just an Evertonian?

Richard Tarleton
37   Posted 13/02/2011 at 12:47:53

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The letter from Elstone was exactly what one would expect from a large organisation, trivialising a customer's complaint. The 'Underdog' advert on television springs to mind.p> Since 2004, Evertonians for Change have made suggestions and tried to elicit what exactly the Board's long-term policy is. The simple answer is, there isn't one: we lurch from one financial problem to the next, we sell players like Rooney to clear the immediate debt in the short term.

The Board every so often invents a possible takeover by Russians etc. to make us poor saps believe that things may happen and then goes back. The gentleman in Alexandria talks of how pressure toppled Mubarak. Kenwright is in a similar position, he can't be toppled by democratic means, he knows that he is not doing any good for our club, but is only going to be toppled by a massive show of protest. How that is achieved I do not know.

Mike Allison
38   Posted 13/02/2011 at 13:14:35

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David, I suggest if you want to make any progress whatsoever in your stated aims of working alongside the club, your next move must be to use the channels that Elstone has offered to you.

His response to your desire for communication is basically "we already do that". This means there are two options: either 1) he's correct, and the channels do exist and are open. If this is the case, your group should concentrate its efforts on using those channels to voice your concerns, repeatedly and in an organised way. It may be that those channels work fine, but the only people using them aren't worried about the way the club is. If this is the case, you need to get involved and you will be heard.

Or 2) the channels of communication mentioned by Robert Elstone are unsatisfactory and are a case of the club going through the motions and only listening to what they want to hear. If this is the case, you can't simply stamp your feet and shout louder, you need to play their game. This would also involve using those channels of communication in the way outlined above, and if that process shows itself to be unsatisfactory, you are then in a stronger position to make demands about communication and fan voices being heard. Without trying it his way, you give him no reason to pay any attention to you other than your thinly veiled threats of poor publicity for the 'regime' through public protests, and I don't feel the club will respond to that.

Your letter and his reply are the opening two moves in a chess match. You now need to make the right moves, as I've suggested, and steer well clear of turning over the table, board pieces and shouting at your opponent. Your only move now is to play it his way for a while and see how that goes.

You may be pleasantly surprised, but if you're not, you can at least legitimately claim that the club's channels of communication are unsatisfactory having tried them out. If you fail to do that, I'm afraid you'll come across as undeservedly wanting special treatment simply because a few of you have got together and given yourself a name.

I'll be interested to hear updates of your progress, and what strategies you choose to adopt.

Nick Waters
39   Posted 13/02/2011 at 13:32:04

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As soon as I saw the group's name it was obvious that it is going to be seen as attempting to pose a threat ? and, whether it's a serious one or not, BK and RE are just going to pat it on the head and tell it to run along and be a good boy.

A better name than Evertonians for Change would be Evertonians for the Future or for the Twenty First Century or something like that. If that fails then there's always Evertonians for Chang, or better still Chang for Evertonians!
Hic.

David Holroyd
40   Posted 13/02/2011 at 13:30:42

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The only way to get Kenwright out is not to buy season tickets. Kenwright will not enter into dialogue. Moyes, for all his faults, is working with both hands behind his back and can't shop at Poundstretcher now. We are not moving ground any day soon so what is in it for Kenwright and his cronies, as there is not any retail park to move into.

I believe Kenwright and the board will have the shock of his life and theirs because I think Season Tickets will be well down this next season. Moyes will soon jump ship soon ? and WHO could blame him?

Phil Bellis
41   Posted 13/02/2011 at 14:00:14

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Splitters! Fack orf!
Garry Martin
42   Posted 13/02/2011 at 13:54:52

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Put bluntly, EFC's response was ? "We own the club, don't try to tell us what to do." Then, they give you a random list of events & procedures that they currently do to assure us all we are wanted & highly regarded. Well, Mr Elstone, you only have to look at recent Chelsea cup game attendance, 28,000; that would have attracted a full house last season ? an 11,000 shortfall, equal to a 30% drop.

I would suggest Mr Elstone you start taking your fans more serious, or, further shrinkage will develop... then we really are in the shit!!

Eugene Ruane
43   Posted 13/02/2011 at 13:15:20

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Simon, you say...

"No Evertonian wants to see the ugly scenes that have unfolded outside Anfield over the past couple of years replicated on Goodison Road".

Sorry but I'm an Evertonian and the truth is, I'd be more than happy to see this right now (nb: loud, visible protest is no more 'kopite behaviour' than it is 'Egyptian behaviour')

The tack of coureteous, 'professional', etc is all very laudable of course, but in my honest opinion will achieve little or nothing as it is playing the game by BK/Elstone's rules.

(those 'rules' being huff and puff, everyone talking all around the houses and..nothing happening)

Basically (to use a bit of 80's bollocks) it's THEIR 'comfort zone'

What I'm saying (I suppose) is that (sadly) loud aggressive protest has a very good success rate when compared to civilised discussion.

Also worth remembering - fan involvement is power and power (something Evertonians don't have..AT ALL) is something that is very rarely just given by those who have it all.

History shows more often than not, power has to be taken.
Neil Adderley
44   Posted 13/02/2011 at 14:27:39

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Alan Clarke #26:

"We've all seen the PR job Kenwright did on KEIOC and the image this group now has in the press and even amongst other fans."

I'm afraid to break the bad news, Alan, but your assertions couldn't be farther from the reality.

Not only did Kenwright's "PR job" fail (you may not have noticed that Kenwright and his board were not amongst the groups who rightly held their heads high once the *final* nail in the Kirkby debacle was hammered in) but, within a matter of days of the decision being made public, it was members of KEIOC who were the first people invited to Goodison Park by 'the club' to advise on possible 'next steps'.

Again, you may be surprised to hear (or maybe not?) that the press, both local and national, often consult with KEIOC and I can also tell you with 100% certaincy that members of KEIOC have been quite busy working with the press within the last couple of weeks. That, Alan, is a fact.

Whether you are ill- or mis-informed or maybe just a little bit mischievous matters not in this case. To quote a certain Mr Elstone, "I'm only too glad to set the record straight.'

*I said 'final' although I'm not quite certain if the fallout from Kirkby has actually finally settled... One more infamous quote then:

'Watch this Space.'
Ed Bernard
45   Posted 13/02/2011 at 17:53:07

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I've arrived a bit late to all this talk about this idea of starting an Everton Trust. I am really interested in this, including offering my various useless skills where I can, and am just wondering where I might go to read a little more on what's been planned so far...
John Roberts
46   Posted 13/02/2011 at 19:45:30

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ALL TALK and NO ACTION!!

Look forward to the day when Mr Elstone and the other muppets on the board are signing on!!

What plan?? Where's the money they're hiding for this stadium or ground improvements??

Mike Green
47   Posted 13/02/2011 at 20:29:04

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Peter (Stone)

Neil has confirmed that he will extend to BLT's and even the Bacon Bayonett when required - he seemed positively excited by the prospect.

As for a figurehaed we have held a secret ballot and the unanimous winner is "Richard Dodd"?
Pat Kennedy
48   Posted 13/02/2011 at 20:45:01

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No one in the media thinks that there is anything wrong at EFC - They do nothing but praise Moyes for the marvellous job he has done and Chairman Bill is wonderful because he is a ' real evertonian'.

We are sleepwalking over the precipice and some idiots on here will still be telling us ' Davey knows what he is doing' & 'Good old Bill, he's one of us'.

Wake up before its too late- look what the RS fans did when they realised their club was being raped & pillaged.

I am in despair right now and its going to get worse before it gets any better!
Peter Stone
49   Posted 14/02/2011 at 00:45:05

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Mike (Green). It seems we are very close to concluding negotiations here. Please put on record COCK's thanks to Neil for both the BLT and Bacon Bayonet offer ? most appreciated.

Following some intense social intercourse (with RINGPIECE in particular), we are compliant with your wishes to have Richard Dodd as chief figurehead. However, that is on condition that his older brother Ken will throw in a few free shows, complete with the Diddymen from Knotty Ash ? which MUST include one Leon Osman.

I hope this development is embraced by EPIC and we can look forward to finalising the alliance that will become EPIC KUNT COCK RINGPIECES in the near future?!

James Flynn
50   Posted 14/02/2011 at 01:14:51

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Please God. Have the Steinbrenners buy this team.
Mike Green
51   Posted 14/02/2011 at 20:50:04

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Peter - done! Let's get this pseudo political party started!

Thanks for the comic relief, dark days ahead.....

Cheers

Mike

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