EvertoniansforChange — the club's first response.

As a season ticket holder, does that really entitle me to ask the board what it's up to and expect an answer?

It's a privately run business and doesn have to answer to anyone if it chooses not to ? I can't understand why you would think the club would entertain a grilling from disgruntled fans?? Robert Elstones job is probably hard enough as it is without having to listen to doom and gloomers who believe they have a right to grill him because they bought a coffee mug from the souvenir shop.

There is a level at which the club have refused to enter into any dialogue ? and that is "change". Because change is threatening to those with vested interest. The interaction with fans and shareholders omits to acknowledge the attempted gagging of supporters by threatened legal action, the abandonment of the AGM as a forum for shareholders to legally and justifiably ask questions that concern the running of the club. Their club.

So you have a reply with a significant spin: no invite to discuss. Unless you are a threat in some way to the clubs financial or PR future, you're unlikely to get a call.

Honestly, the club knows the feeling out there, they haven't got answers and they don't want to open the debate with the fans or answer the difficult and possibly damaging questions about our future. We aren't that important enough to the solutions.

I am presently in Alexandria, Egypt, and I can assure anyone that, given enough pressure, things CAN change!!!

Elstone's letter claims they have open forums via the official website and facebook but messages on both are deleted if they ask "tricky" questions or question the status quo, making both ineligible to be called open forums.

Evertonians for Change adopted a careful approach to contact the club in a non-aggressive manner and chose not to go the route of protest... and this was the reply they gained, which pretty much sums up the club's line. Elstone is merely an employee of BK and a mouthpiece for him so the reply, even if not personally written by BK, is most certainly his stance; if not, then Elstone should be fired ? that won't happen.

Similarly, Keith Wyness was an employee of BK and all his lies, chest puffing and floundering during DK was at the instruction of his employer and main sponsor of that project ? BK. All routes lead back to BK, yet there are still people gullible enough to believe he's completely innocent of anything that has or is or will happen at the club whilst he is Chairman..

Now every business is diffferent (football clubs/Curry's), but relations with stakeholders/customers matter because, if you piss them off, they go elsewhere.

"It's a privately run business and doesn have to answer to anyone if it chooses not to ? I can't understand why you would think the club would entertain a grilling from disgruntled fans??"

Those disgruntled fans are keeping that business afloat. They should be answerable to the shareholders, but they're not.

A lamer argument against holding the board to account will no doubt emerge in this thread... Still, an A for effort.

"Where has our money gone?" ? "We never had any to begin with... next question?"

"Why has nobody bought us?" ? "Nobody out there is interested, next question?"

"Why is that?" ? "Shit stadium, next question"...etc etc...

'Look before you leap' springs to mind... Get the scheme going before you try to make mates with the board (which is what this is about really, who can be first to get a meeting and buzz off it).

Don't know what any of this will achieve... all we really have is hope, hope that somebody rich happens to take an interest.

Rant over!

As long as we go the match, listen to that embarrassing dickhead shout, when the teams are read out "And now, FOR THE MIGHTY BLUES..." ? it's like some kid trying to make himself look hard...bloody embarrassing.

Anyway, as I was saying. It would appear that the Board are not willing to... Well, never mind "it would appear that..." ? it is patently obvious that they expect us to just turn up, pay our money for shirts, pints, pies and the match, then we have to bugger off home and leave "matters Everton" to the Board.

Jamie Rowland. What is all this bollocks about us being customers of EFC? Following your logic, if we are customers, then we should have the right to wander off and and pay our money to purchase a more successful brand. If the (now defunct) "People's Club" banner, spread right across the Park End Stand was put up by the club, are you suggesting that this was merely a marketing ploy?

Bloody Hell, lad... there are many Thousands of Evertonians who go to the match DESPITE the state of club, not because of it. You're an Evertonian until you die. The danger for the club though, is that ? like my brother-in-law, his nephew, wife and daughter ? who have all given up their season tickets... And many more have done the same.

Are you saying that they are not proper blues, at all? No doubt you would accept them taking their money and departing form GP, because there are better products about elsewhere.

And while we are at it, if you ever dared to call Liverpool supporters "Customers," they would treat you with contempt. They wouldn't change allegiance to another club, nor would a supporter of any club in any division. So kindly reconsider the impact of your philosophy, when calling concerned blues "Customers".

I'm calling us 'customers' because that's what we are. We might have passion and obsession but, at the end of the day, we buy into a product as end-users. We don't invest in the club, we buy a product from the club. There is obviously more involved as we do have a bond, because of the way we support our club, and follow in our fathers' footsteps, etc etc ? and, regardless of whether you go or not, does not mean you are a different level of supporter at all ? and I didn't say that it did?!?

The club always issues the statement of intent about improving the fanbase... why? They can't all go the match? So instead they buy products from the club... and the fanbase really just becomes the customer base? We are customers ? we might have belief, passion, love and insanity when supporting the team ? but as a business we are it's customers. Surely?

"The People's Club" was nothing but a marketing ploy ? like the "European tour" logo, and the trademarking of our badge and motto.

It's not a bad thing, it's only what LFC did with "El Nino" etc... It's marketing to take money from the cust... I mean 'fans'.

The words, Bunker, Berlin 1945, swirl around the bottom of my tea cup...

He only has three sources of funding: Sky money, which is already spent for next season; player sales, which will seriously screw the club's league position and threaten it staying in the EPL; and ticket sales.

The only one we as paying supporters can affect is ticket sales. If he doesn't realise he's done for when they drop, then he'll be forced to bankrupt the club or give up and genuinely sell it or hand it to the receivers.

Of course there are marketing ploys, as clubs hire professionals to "market a product." Because Everton "abused the term" it doesn't make it any the less true from David Moyes's perspective, that this was the People's Club.

If you are a customer (I repeat, I know... sorry), you go and buy something that floats your boat; if it doesn't, you go and look elsewhere... unless you have some sort of obsession in buying stuff that doesn't do the job for you. That's the difference.

I would not think there are many Blues who would look across the park and say to themselves "I'll have a bit of that, stuff you lot!". They might stop going though.

Anyway, "customers" or not, the reaction of our Board is the matter in hand. Over the park, the owners are talking with SOS about having a rep on the Board.

As for us not investing, I don't think that it is because there is a lack of interest in doing so. In fact, I would think that there are many Blues who would invest in the club, without expecting a return.

Being an ould git, I don't see myself as customer. I accept that this doesn't mean that others don't have the right to see us all in that light.

Let's just hope, whether we see ourselves as customers, or as part of a club, we get a bit of progress... or I fear we are well fecked.

You, like me, are a fan of Everton FC. The club hosted (not just Everton either) see us as customers that don't go away. This is proved by the fact that LFC included it's waiting list as an intangible asset during it's touting around for a buyer ? 'repeat customers' was the term used during the sale of Man Utd.

I have a deep-rooted passion for Everton, my fellow fan, the ones I go to the game with, the banter, the shouts, the highs and the lows... but the club wants more of me ? not because they love me back but because they want one more of me to spend each year, buy the latest shirt, cap, scarf etc... it's a business now and they just want revenue and profit...

You are bang on about the game becoming a business (becoming? it IS a business!) but that shouldn't deter us from saying to the business types "Hey, this is our club and we want to be part of it; yes, you're after our money as you are engaged in a desperate struggle to survive."

That's me lot for tonight, as I'm just about jam crackered.

Quite frankly, if we can't unify all our protests we run the risk of it all going tits-up!

Doubtless you'd disagree with them on some points and moan about how they had to sort things out faster but, aside from allowing a group of fans to vent, what actually would have been achieved?

Yes, we all know that the club's in mess, but do you think the board don't know that too? Whatever you think of them and their methods, they have a lot more skin in the game than the average fan ? if we go into administration or get relegated, they'll lose millions of investment plus have a sizeable blot on their business records.

I genuinely think the board as a whole is doing it's best under very tough circumstances. Is it good enough? Possibly not? Could they do better? From the outside it looks hard not too.

But surely if you want to set up a group to change things or send a letter, the very least you have to do is have a credible plan to fix the situation ? be it a sensible suggestion for a new stadium, a potential investor (or way to attract them) or, (and this is the most realistic way fans will ever get involved), by gathering contributions and coming to the club with some actual money to buy a stake.

The lies of being for sale blown out of the water once and for all at the DK hearings. The timely release of "Everton have a few interested parties" from Orville's mate... about us suddenly being for sale ? bang on cue for season ticket renewals (Bullshit Billy couldn't use Riquelme this season as even the thickest sheep know we are potless) ? to Elstone using the phrase "Investment" in his Radio piece shortly afterwards, it's the same old broken record of BK holding on for dear life... and a "Screw You!" to the fans and supporters.

I just hope the proposed trust gets going because it will give financial credence to emotional commitment. Also, vitally, having a strong fan base prepared to help finance ground development must make us more attractive to possible buyers.

COCK also enquired if Neil can supply the famed "Bacon Bayonet", should the occassion demand it? That last point however, is not a deal-breaker and not a pre-requisite for moving forwards. If we can reach a compromise on this delicate issue, then I think we may well have a deal.

We have also been thinking of who to nominate as our figurehead and Eugene Ruane has been mooted. If you are reading this Eugene, perhaps you would consider this prestigious role?

So he does have a Plan B: Administration ? Not my fault, I am a True Blue but couldn't find an investor, DK was the Deal of the Century and was the only way to save the club from administration ? The Customers/Fans stopped buying season tickets.

Relegation and £35m for three years.... Fuck the customers ? I'll get my money somehow.

Am I paranoid or is it that I am just an Evertonian?

The Board every so often invents a possible takeover by Russians etc. to make us poor saps believe that things may happen and then goes back. The gentleman in Alexandria talks of how pressure toppled Mubarak. Kenwright is in a similar position, he can't be toppled by democratic means, he knows that he is not doing any good for our club, but is only going to be toppled by a massive show of protest. How that is achieved I do not know.

You may be pleasantly surprised, but if you're not, you can at least legitimately claim that the club's channels of communication are unsatisfactory having tried them out. If you fail to do that, I'm afraid you'll come across as undeservedly wanting special treatment simply because a few of you have got together and given yourself a name.

I'll be interested to hear updates of your progress, and what strategies you choose to adopt.

A better name than Evertonians for Change would be Evertonians for the Future or for the Twenty First Century or something like that. If that fails then there's always Evertonians for Chang, or better still Chang for Evertonians!
Hic.

I believe Kenwright and the board will have the shock of his life and theirs because I think Season Tickets will be well down this next season. Moyes will soon jump ship soon ? and WHO could blame him?

I would suggest Mr Elstone you start taking your fans more serious, or, further shrinkage will develop... then we really are in the shit!!

Look forward to the day when Mr Elstone and the other muppets on the board are signing on!!

What plan?? Where's the money they're hiding for this stadium or ground improvements??

Following some intense social intercourse (with RINGPIECE in particular), we are compliant with your wishes to have Richard Dodd as chief figurehead. However, that is on condition that his older brother Ken will throw in a few free shows, complete with the Diddymen from Knotty Ash ? which MUST include one Leon Osman.

I hope this development is embraced by EPIC and we can look forward to finalising the alliance that will become EPIC KUNT COCK RINGPIECES in the near future?!