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FAN ARTICLES

Had enough, players out

By David  Crowe :  03/04/2011 :  Comments (90) :
With this season fizzling out into nothing and every morale-boosting victory being followed by drab draws and desperate defeats, it's clear that something drastic has to be done. I know there are many people who think getting rid of Moyes may accomplish this and most certainly what everyone wants is a billionaire owner to pop up out of nowhere, but we can safely assume that, with BK in charge, that probably won't be happening anytime soon.

In my opinion, we should certainly keep David Moyes in charge for at the very least one more year. He has proven himself capable in the past and will probably get us 7th place in the league which isn't a disaster by any means as it may yet be a European spot. No, I don't think David Moyes is the problem. I think the squad of players we have is the problem and I think it would be really refreshing to see a big change in personnel, whoever we eventually bring in.

In the last two years, I believe we have paid the price for two poor signings by David Moyes ? made with the funds generated by the Lescott transfer. Johnny Heitinga, firstly, cost us £6M and in his first year, granted, came close to getting Player of the Season, playing at centre-back very well. However, this season, he has frustrated me to my wit's end and, no matter what he does between now and the end of the season, I want him out. He's not an Everton player. That blatant bottling out of the challenge against Blackpool still infuriates me despite how that game ended. However, he was one of the XI that lined up in the World Cup Final so has to be worth a fair bit.

Secondly, Bily just isn?t up to it in my opinion. Yes, he?s not a winger... but, after two years, apart from a few belters, he?s just not impressed me. He?s got no pace, isn?t committed enough and clearly wants out. Also, his reputation in Russia is still good and the clubs over there are loaded so we could easily get a fair chunk of that fee back. To get £10M for these two would be alright business as I believe we could bring in a player who could contribute more than both of them combined for less than that amount.

The rest of the deadwood in the squad: Anichebe, Yakubu, Yobo, Vaughan (he?ll probably end up leaving) luckily for us, can accumulate a decent bit of revenue. If we sold Anichebe for £1M, Vaughan for£1M, Yakubu for £4M and Yobo for £3M, there?s £9M (and a few big wage bills gone) for four players who?ve ? either through being out on loan, injured, or are shite ? have been useless to us for the last 12 months. Add that to a possible £12m for the money from Bily and Heitinga?s transfers and we have over £20m in transfer revenue.

Knowing Bill we probably wouldn?t spend all of it but seeing as we got Howard, Arteta, Pienaar, Baines and Cahill for less than that amount and the players going out are all shite, it won?t be hard to improve the squad overall.

Now here?s the really controversial part. As we all know, there?s been a lot of talk about the future of Jack Rodwell and the possibility of a £25M valuation by some clubs. When I first heard these rumours at the end of last season, I thought even £30M wasn?t enough. I believed he could be the next Gerrard at the end of last season and couldn?t wait to see him fight his way into the first XI this time around.

Well, to put it simply, he hasn?t delivered this year. To be fair, he?s had injuries but I?ve been disappointed when he?s been in the side anyway. He is sometimes so anonymous in games that I forget he?s playing (certainly not a characteristic of Steven Gerrard) and back to the subject of injuries, how many injuries is he going to get? He?s only just 20 and he?s had a fair few already and some serious ones at that. Which has got me thinking... would taking £25M (or maybe more) be a step in the right direction? I am now of the opinion that it probably would.

Although it would be fantastic to keep him on for a while to see if he ever fulfills his massive potential, we?re not in that sort of position. We?ve waited for Rodwell, we?ve waited for Bily etc and they?ve done nothing for us this year and, on the other hand, Leon Osman has played excellently many times this year (out of position) when Bily has just been frustrating. Maybe if we were Spurs waiting would be an option. But Bill Kenwright remains our chairman...

Saying we did let Rodwell, Bily, Heitinga, Yak, Anichebe, Vauhan and Yobo go. We would raise around £45M in transfer revenue. That, for us, is an unbelievable amount of money and I believe that with just a little bit of shrewdness from Moyes in the transfer market we can come out of the summer with a better squad and having not anywhere near all of that money.

The horrifying side of this is the state this mass exodus would leave our squad in without replacements, however:

Goalkeepers: Howard, Mucha, Turner

Defenders: Baines, Distin, Jagielka, Duffy, Hibbert, Neville, Coleman.

Midfielders: Gueye, Cahill, Arteta, Fellaini, Osman, Barkley, Wallace,

Strikers: Saha, Beckford, Vellios, Baxter.

I believe, though, that, with a half-decent investment of around £35M, this can be rectified.

Firstly, we desperately need wingers. Just about anyone in the Premier League would be an improvement on Coleman and Bily/Osman on the wings so I suggest £6M on Matt Jarvis and a similar amount of a right winger under the age of 26. There?s £12M of the kitty gone... but a massive problem we?ve had all year solved immediately. Then, we need a replacement central midfielder to replace Rodwell as Barkley probably isn?t ready. A loan deal on a promising young player could solve this problem although, if we must spend, then we should keep it below £5M as we do have Arteta, Fellaini and Osman plus Neville who can play there. I reckon that, with the considerable promise of Gueye, that would be quite a formidable midfield bar an injury crisis and a hell of a lot stronger than this season?s.

Then, we must bolster the defence. I don?t believe we?ll need to do anything too drastic for another year here so someone of a similar value to replace Yobo (£2-3M) and a replacement left-back to cover Baines on loan should do the job; I wouldn?t mind seeing the odd glimpse of Duffy as he apparently has some potential. Again, in my opinion, that leaves us no worse off in defence barring an injury crisis and I would leave Neville at right back for one last year (or maybe just until January) as I feel more confident when he?s in the team and the players certainly look like they do too.

This then would surely leave us with close to £18M left to spend if Bill was to take £10M out of the original amount. I would recommend spending all of this on a top class striker. If we?d had someone who hit even 16-18 this season, we?d be above Liverpool now and would be challenging for the top 4. Villa spent £28m and got Darren Bent which won?t be a bad bit of business and I?m telling you now, if we?d had a Bent on our side yesterday, we?d have killed them off when we should have.

I have faith in Moyes to get us our Darren Bent or even better with a £15M budget or higher and add that to Saha and Beckford and Baxter and Vellios (who looks to have a bit of skill in his locker) in reserve and again I?d say we?d be massively improved. Obviously the massive downside to this is the huge wage bill an £18M player would incur but I?m sure Yak, Yobo, Bily and Heitinga are on a wedge so it shouldn?t hurt the bank balance too badly and would make us a whole different proposition.

In: Striker (£15-18M); Right winger (£6M); Jarvis (£6-7M); Centre-mid cover (£3-4M); Center back cover (£2-3M); Left back cover (loan); Total: £32-38M.

Out: Rodwell (£25M plus add-ons); Bily (£6-7M); Heitinga (£6M); Yakubu (£4M); Yobo (£2-3M); Anichebe (£1M); Vaughan (£1M); Total: £45-47M.

Goalkeepers: Howard; Mucha; Turner.

Defenders: Baines, LB (loan), Distin, Jagielka; CB (£2/3m),; Duffy, Hibbert, Neville, Coleman, Mustafi.

Midfielders: Jarvis (£6-7ZM), Gueye, Osman, Cahill, Arteta, Fellaini, CM (£3-4M), RM (£6M).

Strikers: CF (£18M), Saha, Beckford, Baxter, Vellios.

I know I?ve not been specific at all on who I?d like the club to buy but I?ve learnt that who I want is rarely who we get. This squad would be so much better than the current one because it solves our two main problems: strikers and wingers. I don?t think it?s outrageous to expect £35M from a £45M total of incoming transfer fees and the £10M could be well used by the board to pay debts and free up money for January and onwards and also it could be used to pay the new players. I don?t mind the squad not being any bigger because at Everton it?s important that we blood young players because they save and make us money which is the only way we will do either in the near future.

I know this won?t happen but, after this season, all I want is change. I want to get rid of the players who don?t want to play for Everton and bring in players who do. Bily and Heitinga never looked like they wanted to play for us and that?s why I?ve lost patience with them.

The difference that having players who are committed to the club would make would be a breath of fresh air. I Guess I just can?t be doing with another season like this. Something has to be done.

Wow, just got onto how much of an essay this is...

Reader Comments

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Michael Kenrick
1   Posted 03/04/2011 at 22:43:23

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Well.... that's half-an-hour of my life I'll never get back. I wonder, have you perhaps considered spending time playing Fifa 11? I'm sure you'll get plenty of enjoyment from it.
John Keating
2   Posted 03/04/2011 at 23:07:55

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The stories in the media and around town have more or less summed up what I think we all know. Someone has to go in the close season. Problem is... Who??

There's talk of Fellaini, Baines, Rodwell, Jags, Arteta, but if we had to, who may be the easiest to sell?

I hate to even talk about it but I believe it's going to happen. In my opinion, I reckon Fellaini will be touted by the club. He has two years to go and his people reckon he's for bigger things.

I do not think he will sign an extension and I do not think we can afford to let him run down to a year on his contract when he can sit on his arse and leave for free the following season.

Lee Courtliff
3   Posted 03/04/2011 at 23:01:54

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I agree about selling Rodwell IF we get an offer of £25 million but I disagree about your comment on Coleman. I think he has been superb on the wing and will hopefully get even better next season. A nice bit of Championship Manager though.
Nathan O\Hagan
4   Posted 03/04/2011 at 23:14:21

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So, DM has confessed we're at least 1 striker short, so presumably in the summer that will be his transfer priority; someone to fill the number 9 shirt. So who will it be? Bearing in mind our lack of funds, lets have a few suggestions (realistic ones).

Elmander ? Free in the summer, had a great season after struggling in the prem for a couple of years. Perhaps too similar to Saha, but given his injury problems, i dont think that's too much of an issue.

Kevin Doyle ? Hard worker, can play in the lone striker role, holds the ball up well. Arguably doesn't score enough?

Rodellega ? Mobile, quick, also works fairly hard, perhaps not ideally suited as lone striker, but i've seen him play it.

Pavyuchenko ? Hawwy might be willing to let him go at a reasonable price, he's a class act, scores lots of goals when he plays.

Anyone think any of these fit the bill or have any other ideas?

I think a top class striker is the missing piece of the puzzle. If our current squad are all fit and on form, I think this is the only thing lacking. (Saha is top class at his best, but has dips in form, and this latest injury highlights the main issue with him.)

Eugene Ruane
5   Posted 03/04/2011 at 22:48:21

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David, from a logic point of view, are you REALLY ok with this paragraph?

"In my opinion, we should certainly keep David Moyes in charge for at the very least one more year. He has proven himself capable in the past and will probably get us 7th place in the league which isn't a disaster by any means as it may yet be a European spot. No, I don't think David Moyes is the problem. I think the squad of players we have is the problem".

Ffs, if that's an argument, so is "No I think Lee Harvey Oswald was not the problem, I think it was his gun that was the problem!"

Or..

"No I don't think Jimmy Case was the problem, I think it was his boot that caused the problem!"

Seriously, am I missing something?

Is anyone responsible for anything these days?

Moyes (nb: THE MAN WHO BOUGHT AND/OR SELECTS ALL THOSE PLAYERS!!) out!



Roman Sidey
6   Posted 03/04/2011 at 23:29:54

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Thanks Eugene. Saved me some lines.

But in response, the biggest obstacle, aside from the problem of finding the money to pay wages after the transfer fees have been dealt around, is getting players in who "want to play for the club", as you put it. I'm not trying to drag the club down, I would never do that, but loyalty is not a virtue in many footballers anymore, so the only players that are going to fulfill that criteria are scousers, so the pool is significantly shallowed immediately.

You can't expect Continentals to come in and love the club straight from the off, unless they're getting paid £60k+ a week.

Nathan, I think Pav from Spurs would be a great signing in that it would save us a lot of hassle of getting rid of Bily (something that would sadden me), as I think the two of them would partner up quite well.

I think even a journeyman winger would do the trick, as someone who can do a job soundly is better on the left wing than what we've got now. I've always held Gamst in high regard at Blackburn, and with them seemingly bobbing around the bottom six a fair bit these days, I reckon a lazy few could be put in for him to give us a couple of seasons' work.
Andy Peers
7   Posted 03/04/2011 at 23:42:20

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The only player I would hate to see leave is Baines. I would cash in on Rodwell in a minute £25M. Would love to keep Fellaini but £25M is better. Bily £8M, Heitinga £6M, Yak £4M, Anichebe £1M, Vaughan £1M, Yobo £2M, Arteta £10M, Saha £4M...

£86 Million to spend!! We are not using these Players right now through injury except Heitinga and Bily and we could replace them for £5M.

Prospects... Pav from Spurs £8M, Donovan £12M, Bendtner £12M, Shaun Wright-Philips £8M, Charlie Adam £10M. I think we could keep Bily and Heitinga if necessary so we would be down to £72M to spend but the new players only cost £50M so we still have £22M to spend to strengthen the squad.

I already like the sound of our new squad.
Mike Bates
8   Posted 04/04/2011 at 00:05:25

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Andy, I won't question your opinion to want to see the back of these players ? or the valuations ? but I must question your belief that if we get those fees for those players then Moyes would definitely have 100% of that to spend.

I sincerely hope that your tongue was stuck firmly in your cheek as you typed.
Andy Peers
9   Posted 04/04/2011 at 00:40:11

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Can always hope!! That is all we ever have as Everton supporters... lol.
Roman Sidey
10   Posted 04/04/2011 at 00:52:01

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I thought Andy did acknowledge a few times that we probably wouldn't get to spend it all.
Roberto Birquet
11   Posted 04/04/2011 at 02:01:59

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Some funny response to what seemed a right ramble (only read about three pars of the piece, and gave up). Love "half an hour of my life I'll never get back."

The fear is all this bloody press reports of sellin squad to clear debts and bye bye Moyes.

At least any desperation may mean a cheaper fee for the Club to help find a buyer, but am not hopeful without an existing stadium project.

But I more and more expect Rodwell to go even with a more optimistic outlook.

I was bemused to learn that accountancy rules do not allow any value for a player who has not been purchased. So we have debt on one side and no value on the positive side for Jack. His sale and the funds used to buy two players (including a much-needed striker) would bump up the positive side of the balance sheet by some £20 million.

It would just make losing Fellaini yet more difficult.

But please, let these press reports be wrong or we're stuffed.
John Daley
12   Posted 04/04/2011 at 02:23:16

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" I don?t think it?s outrageous to expect £35M from a £45M total of incoming transfer fees and the £10M could be well used by the board to pay debts and free up money for January and onwards and also it could be used to pay the new players"

Life is so simple and fun in fantasy land. Snap yourself back to reality and realise that the more likely scenario for your imaginary £45M would probably be £35M going towards servicing debts, and only £10M being used for transfer fees and wages.
Eric Myles
13   Posted 04/04/2011 at 04:50:32

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Roberto #11, and accounting rules also mean that once a player has finished his contract and his initial fee has therefore been amortised over the contract period then he is valued at £0.00 in the assets column, eg, Arteta.

Indeed while he is being amortised his asset value is getting less each year even though he may be worth much more on the open market, eg, Baines.
Jimmy Sorheim
14   Posted 04/04/2011 at 06:36:56

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Who is this guy? Selling off half our team of Internationals is by far the dumbest idea I have heard so far. Bily is going to stay, because who do we have left after Rodwell, Fellaini and Arteta are sold for a quick buck?

What is going to happen is this: the board is going to panic and accept less money than they would get if they held out for another year or so. I think we could sell Heitinga without a problem.

But we have to keep Vaughan, just look at him now. He has hit 9 goals already for Crystal Palace and that means that he is back on track.

I know the board will panic-sell this summer and the club will suffer for it, belive me. We cannot afford to lose too many first-team players, we are an injury-prone squad as we are.

Bily has been fit all season but hasn't been given the same game time as Saha and Beckford have got. I would love to see anyone else coming into the first team with no match practice and then take the Premier League by storm, and that is part of the problem this year.

Moyes is ONLY playing his fab 4 type of favourites, and they will be sold this summer... what will he do then? I say he will resign.

Guy Hastings
15   Posted 04/04/2011 at 07:51:46

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Andy #7, S W-P? I'd be half as shite for a tenth of the money.
Dave Wilson
16   Posted 04/04/2011 at 08:12:53

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Eugene (5):

"Am I missing something?"

Yes.
Chris Perry
17   Posted 04/04/2011 at 08:25:23

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If my Auntie had a cock and balls she would be my uncle! Ifs and buts.... get back to Championship Manager or whatever you are playing.
Alan Clarke
18   Posted 04/04/2011 at 08:40:18

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I was very critical of Moyes last summer for not wheeling and dealing more in the transfer market in a similar way suggested in the main article i.e. sell a few to bring in players that would give better balance to the team. In hindsight, it's quite obvious Moyes would not have received a penny of the money he brought in hence why he made sure he at least kept the players he did have.

In a world where Moyes did receive the money he generated from player sales then sacrificing Fellaini or Rodwell could be forgiven. That's not going to happen though. The mess that Kenwright has got our club into now means any money made from selling players will only go to paying off the club debt.

As for Moyes leaving, I'm not arsed one way or the other but he is well loved among large sections of our support. If he went this would really be the catalyst for some action to finally force Kenwright out.
Eugene Ruane
19   Posted 04/04/2011 at 10:26:50

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Dave Wilson (16) ? well... go on then.
Daniel A Johnson
20   Posted 04/04/2011 at 11:42:09

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David Crowe

Everton's problem right now is wages.

That's why Yobo and Yakubu went on loan ? to alleviate the pressure on the wage bill.

When you sell a player you get the transfer fee but also save massive amounts in wages every week.

To suggest that we can replace players like for like is rubbish, as although our net spend maybe nil after selling to buy, our wage bill will still probably increase/stay the same.

That's why we are facing sales with no replacements. Hence why we have the Moyes quit rumours.

Unless we make moves to balance the books, we're financially fucked, plus if we sell our best players were fucked on the football pitch.

The crisis at EFC is steadily building and the screw is now starting to be turned on the club.

Jesus, the future is bleak...
Gareth Humphreys
21   Posted 04/04/2011 at 11:41:10

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Heres one ? how about we just don't loan out Yakubu, Vaughan & Yobo and suddenly the squad is looking like it has a load of depth. Just like at the start of the season when we pretty much had 2 players for every position:

Howard/Mucha
Neville/Hibbert
Jags/Yobo
Distin/Duffy
Baines/Heitinga
Coleman/Anichebe
Osman/Gueye
Arteta/Rodwell
Fellaini/Cahill
Saha/Beckford
Yakubu/Vaughan

Or we can wing it and leave a load of kids on the bench when we have a crippling injury list.

Andy Callen
22   Posted 04/04/2011 at 12:06:22

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If we sold the whole first XI for £100 million Moyes would only be given £10 million tops to sign replacements... and pay their wages!

Any money that comes into the club through player sales this summer will go into that big black hole the club has developed thanks to Kenwright... That really hurts to even write such a statement.
Ben Jones
23   Posted 04/04/2011 at 12:37:46

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Does sound a bit too good to be true, but the article has the right idea.

The loan player assessment is correct, and as we have been without these players for the majority of the season, it wouldn't affect that much. The combined fees of that could get us one good winger.

I think we can get loads off Heitinga, round the £10M bracket, as clubs in Germany and Holland would snap their hands. I'm not convinced we would get as much for Bily though.

Rodwell for £25M is a good shout, although we would probably only get £10M of that up front.

Either way, I don't think we have as much to spend as you say. It is difficult how much of it would be spent on players because we have so much debt. Someone has already pointed out wages for our supposed new players, which is also a concern.

I suspect Moyes will try and use the freebies to try and cover the squad. I think then we will buy a striker and a winger, but that is it. Either way I can see our squad improving, which is a good thing.

Who we sign or for how much though is another question entirely. Jarvis is a good shout though...
Sam Hoare
24   Posted 04/04/2011 at 12:42:53

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Andy, you're right. Its painful selling players without getting anything back but i think its has to be done. If its done once then hopefully we can stop it happening again and if we eliminate our debt then we will have money available that would be servicing debt to spend on wages.

Here's my effort.

Sell

Rodwell- £20m (plus Welbeck.)
Heitinga- £6m
Billy- £6m
Yobo- £4m
Yak- £4m
Anichebe- £2m

Thats £42m (with my admittedly optimistic figures).

Put £35m towards clearing debt and spend 7m on a left winger (Jarvis maybe...) and have some wages left over for loans and freebies and we have:

Howard
Coleman Jags Distin Baines
Arteta Fellaini Osman Jarvis?
Welbeck Saha/Cahill

Bench

Duffy
Hibbert
Beckford
Gueye
Vaughan
Vellios, Barkley, Baxter, youngsters... etc
Any Loans or freebies

It's not Champions League stuff but it's enough to fight for top 10 which in our financial predicament is about as good as we can hope for.

Then once the debt is cleared, hopefully with some good financial management we can avoid having to sell any more good players and think with more optimism about the future. Plus we will be a more attractive takeover option.

If only life were that simple.
Liam Appleby
25   Posted 04/04/2011 at 13:00:51

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For once i agree with Michael Kenrick #1
Roman Sidey
26   Posted 04/04/2011 at 13:02:17

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I think the only sure sell this summer is Yobo, as he's said he probably won't return. Not going to cry about, but he's one of the old heads I always liked.

If we get an offer of £18M+ for Rodwell, we'd have to take it. The positive of selling him is that he hasn't been all that crucial to us yet, so it really is money in the plus for the squad.

If we're offered over £15M for Fellaini (a profit on his original fee), we should probably take that too.

Both not ideal sells for ideal money, but REALISTICALLY, the club needs cash and it's quite obvious that BK considers the on-field dilemmas a lot less important than the off-field debt.
Sam Hoare
27   Posted 04/04/2011 at 13:10:17

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Roman, would you really sell Fella for £15m? I think he's brilliant and would be disappointed to get less than £22m.

But then beggars....
Roman Sidey
28   Posted 04/04/2011 at 13:28:29

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As I said mate, it's realistic over want. Would love to get £22mil+, but BK will put the pressure on to just make the money back.

I rate him, but, he's not as great as people think. If he could learn how to win high balls I'd probably love him. If I were Moyes, I'd tell him to cut that hair a bit too. I don't want to sound like a wowser, but it's not optimum to be running around for 90 minutes with that flapping everywhere.
Mike Williams
29   Posted 04/04/2011 at 13:28:38

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You say "David Moyes in charge for at the very least one more year. He has proven himself capable in the past and will probably get us 7th place in the league which isn't a disaster by any means as it may yet be a European spot."

Please can somebody explain how 7th may get a European Spot? I am not saying it won't, I just can't work it out myself.
Roman Sidey
30   Posted 04/04/2011 at 13:36:05

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Isn't the Fair Play table still looking like an option?
Roman Sidey
31   Posted 04/04/2011 at 13:36:57

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In the past though, I've said that Europa League was a waste of time and that we'd do better in the League if it weren't for us being in such a pointless comp on the side.

Having seen how we went this year without for the first time in a while I'm happy to change my tune and welcome a spot if we are lucky enough.
Sam Hoare
32   Posted 04/04/2011 at 13:43:13

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Agree bout the hair, Roman, but I bet if he goes this summer, it won't be for less than £20m.
Andy Callen
33   Posted 04/04/2011 at 13:46:52

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7th won't get you into Europe but 6th will providing either United or City win the FA Cup. As I've mentioned in a previous thread, their place as FA Cup winners will go to the next please in the league ? 6th.

Not only will this generate the extra £500k for the league placing it will also generate extra TV revenue and gate receipts (as long as we get past the qualifier). With this in mind we should be going hell for leather to overhaul the RS. Getting into Europe could be the difference between keeping hold of a few of our better players or at least demanding a better fee, to seeing the likes of Spurs offer insulting sums for our established players, knowing the situation we are in.
Roman Sidey
34   Posted 04/04/2011 at 13:50:42

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I do hope you're right, Sam. I think though that if mid-July comes and we haven't sold anyone, then we'll need to sell Fellaini or Rodwell for slightly less than the figures being thrown around. The last thing we need is David Moyes trying to spend £15mil or so on the last day of the window again.
Jonathan Tasker
35   Posted 04/04/2011 at 14:07:27

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Some players I would like us to buy... Since we haven't got much money, I am happy to concentrate on players I have seen in the lower leagues.

Becchio from Leeds, always impresses. Steve Morison at Millwall; the last player we bought from Millwall has done ok. I have been watching him since he was at BSP level with Stevenage, he keeps on improving. And at Peterbrough, Craig Mackail Smith and George Boyd ? both very good players at that level and can improve.

Sam Hoare
36   Posted 04/04/2011 at 14:11:42

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So lots of gossip about various Everton players leaving this Summer and our crippling debt and Moyes leaving blah blah blah.

Personally the player I would be saddest to see leave is Fellaini. I genuinely think he is the one potentially world class player we have on our books. Baines has been brilliant and Rodwell may have talent but for me the big Fella is a class apart.

What worries me is that i think he only has 2 years left on his contract. If the board allow him to run this down a la Pienaar, I will be freaking furious!! This summer they need to do their damndest to tie him down to a deal and if he won't; then flog him. Don't pussyfoot around.

I think in today's crazy market he could well fetch between £25-£30m at the moment but if we try to sell him next summer with one season left on his contract it will be half that.

I would love to keep him but personally it seems unlikely to me. I can't see him signing.

In which case sell him, sell Billy and sell Heitinga plus the loanees and we should have the money needed to repay a large majority of debt and pick up a few basement bargains.

I think it would be madness to sell Baines and Jags for anything other than insane amounts. Arteta I would like to keep but more for sentimental reasons than practicality. Rodwell I'm not so bothered about but if Fella goes then hopefully he can step up as our DM.

Either way, a lot of people on here might get their wish to see Moyes leave this Summer. Couldn't blame him for leaving, I for one will be wishing him the best. Hope his replacement knows how to develop youth players as it sounds we will be increasingly reliant upon them.

Mick Gallagher
37   Posted 04/04/2011 at 14:22:40

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Thought the runners up in the FA cup qualify for the Europa League, not 6th place.
Roman Sidey
38   Posted 04/04/2011 at 14:43:40

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FC Porto are going close to being team of the season, undefeated in the League, and have a Uruguayan winger named Christian Rodriguez who would be good for us.
Larry Boner
39   Posted 04/04/2011 at 14:42:52

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The only way Everton can qualify for Europa League is by finishing fifth. The FA Cup semi-final draw means that either Stoke or Bolton will be in the final, against a top 4 side, so, even if they lose, in the final, either Stoke or Bolton will play in Europe next season.

If the semi-final draw had paired Stoke with Man City etc, etc then sixth place could have been a possible qualifying position. It's fifth or nothing, I'm afraid.

Having said that, Liverpool are involved here and if they finish lower than fifth, then expect a rule change... I am deadly serious!

If Man City finish fifth, but win the cup, then there is a possibility that sixth place could qualify; if Man Utd win the CL and the FA cup etc, etc.

Whatever happens, Liverpool will play in Europe next season, guaranteed.

Larry Boner
40   Posted 04/04/2011 at 14:56:12

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Villas Boas, 33 years old, team plays fast, attacking football, win ratio of 90%, league record at Porto: P25 W23 D2 F58 A9 Pts71. Won the title at the weekend when beating Benfica. Protege of Mourinho, but without the ultra defensive mentality.

Probably a bit like Moyes when he first came to Everton, I would love to see him at Everton if Moyes ever left, but Chelsea are already eyeing him up, with Liverpool keeping tabs when the Dalglish honeymoon is over.

Eric Myles
41   Posted 04/04/2011 at 15:19:39

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Whoever thinks we'll buy a winger in the summer is deluded, how many years now have we needed one? And you think Moyes will suddenly change? Anyway he's suddenly realised what we all know, we need a striker.

As someone said, wages are key so Arteta will be top of the list for sale, and then a big price tag player.
Alex Kociuba
42   Posted 04/04/2011 at 15:58:27

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Off the main topic, but speaking of Porto, I noticed their average attendance has been 35,000 and as low as 19,000 ? and that's in a state-of-the-art 50,000 seat stadium. Shocking.
Roman Sidey
43   Posted 04/04/2011 at 15:58:28

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Larry, Villas Boas is scary. The same age as Neville and Distin, and already managing a team to an undefeated season.

As I said, Christian Rodriguez is a fairly quick winger playing under him, so could be worth a shout. He's also only a fringe player there so could be available if we threw a few mil at him.

Like Eric says though, Moyes hasn't bought an established winger for how long?

I'm racking my brain, and can't think of anyone since Van der Meyde.
Dave Lynch
44   Posted 04/04/2011 at 16:08:54

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The rumor about Baines and Rodwell leaving got me thinking. Sammy Lee has been attending Goodison of late, why?

Maybe he is casting his eye over those two for a possible summer transfer swoop. The mere thought of either those two or Fellaini going across the park makes me feel ill.

Norman Merrill
45   Posted 04/04/2011 at 16:18:05

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The rumours flying about that this player or that player is about to be sold
and will Moyes go or stay? does nothing for the fan who just wants to watch Everton. Could it be that there is someone out there, who is interested in investing in the club? And may just be about to announce the fact that the deal is done!

Or could it be just a wild dream of a fan who has seen great times and bad times, and would like see our great club, once and for all in the hands of whoever has the means and real interest, in takng it forward. I am sure all fans will not begrudge a fellow fan having a very hopeful pipedream?

David Crowe
46   Posted 04/04/2011 at 16:21:07

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It's an idea that I wanted to put out there because we do have to sell to buy. As a match-going blue, I'm sick of certain players and the thought of us messing around waiting for them to turn into players they probably never were or will be worries me all the more.

I'm not an expert on finances as you can probably guess but then again, who is an expert here? Not one person has made it clear why, for example we'd 'only get £10 million of any £45 million'. If that's the case, then why didn't we sell anyone last summer if we've got debts exceeding £30mill?

I acknowledged that this article's ideas could probably never come to fruition but I thought I'd have a stab at it at least. I love how if someone tries to offer an idea of how the club could possibly move forward as a matter of opinion, they get told to 'go back to football manager' when the people making those comments clearly have no idea what they'd do themselves. I'll tell you what: I'll go 'back to football manager', you go back to pissing and moaning and we're all happy...

Andy Callen
47   Posted 04/04/2011 at 17:41:33

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Larry (#39) The rules changed a few years ago. It is now only the winners of the FA Cup that qualifies for Europe. As mentioned if there are already in Europe their place goes to the next best place in the league. That is why Pompey weren?t in Europe this season.

We have 7 games left to overhaul the RS and try finish 6th. The way the season has gone it is hard to predict which of the 7 are winnable. However if the players want to prove they care about the Club then they need to make sure they don?t put in another performance like the one at Bolton a few weeks back. This is the time for Moyes and his ?famous? motivational skills to kick in? but then we were in exactly the same position last season and look what happened?
Phil Guyers
48   Posted 04/04/2011 at 22:18:26

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Andy

Article 2.04 of the competition regulations on uefa.com reads:

'If the winner of the domestic cup qualifies for the UEFA Champions League, the domestic cup runner-up qualifies for the UEFA Europa League at the stage initially reserved for the lowest ranking top domestic league representative'.

It seems pretty clear to me that either Bolton or Stoke will be in the Europa League next season provided that the Cup winners are in the Champions League. Portsmouth did not get the license to play in Europe and their place went to our beloved neighbours, surprise surprise!

The interesting scenario, as Larry pointed out, is if Man City win the Cup and finish 5th in the League. I think that is the only way that 6th place will get into Europe. We still have an outside chance but just watch the Reds get in by the back door again!
Jay Harris
49   Posted 04/04/2011 at 22:05:04

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David #46,
the reason is most player deals are on the "never never" i.e. 5 million down and the rest over the next 200 games, cups,championships etc.

In addition quality incoming players (especially on a free) will demand high wages, probably more than the outgoing player, especially in Everton's case (Arteta excepted).
Roman Sidey
50   Posted 04/04/2011 at 23:19:22

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Phil, I do believe that that is what the rules say, but hasn't Birmingham winning the Carling Cup taken one of those spots? I might be wrong, but that is what I thought the case was.
Larry Boner
51   Posted 04/04/2011 at 23:26:34

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Just to finish on Villas Boas and Porto, they are on TV, Thursday this week, against Spartak Moscow in the Euro League quarters, ITV 4.

I will watch as I have only seen highlights of Porto so far this season.

Roman Sidey
52   Posted 05/04/2011 at 00:16:33

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They've got some real good players down there Larry, playing really good football. Can't see why we shouldn't dip in for one of them.
Stephen Leary
53   Posted 05/04/2011 at 03:29:02

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If Wolves stay up, Jarvis will be worth around £15M, all English players are. Also, Moyes or a new manager would be lucky to get £5M of the recouped money. Unless Kenwright and the board goes, we're going one place next season and that's down.

David Vaughan linked on a free... fucking exciting stuff!! Do me a favour, that's a sign of things to come.

Sam Hoare
54   Posted 05/04/2011 at 10:09:08

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Cheer up Stephen.

At least our youth team is top of the league! I reckon if Moyes stays, we could sell a few players and still stay up comfortably next season. He's good at backs-against-the-wall stuff.

If we sell players and he leaves then... let's hope Bill picks the right man,
Alan Rycroft
55   Posted 05/04/2011 at 10:13:18

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I do agree about Rodwell, he has been anonymous this season and I don't think he has even scored a goal. If someone wants him, I would say go for it. I like Coleman a lot, he gives his all and can be a a great player, and he has scored some crucial goals. I do hope Gueye and the Vellios make the grade, we desperately need a new blood and a bit of class. Baxter should get more of a go, he could be a very good player. Osman has had a latter day renaissance and is another giving his all. Keep Felli ? though he can be awful on his day he is a very good player.

As to who should come in the in summer, I would say GET ADAM ? he is a great player! And just down the road. Oh yeah, and dream on, this guy Niemman from Brazil!!! What about pinching one or two of those great young English guys at Stoke who destroyed Chelski!

Tom Campbell
56   Posted 05/04/2011 at 13:48:03

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Does anyone else think that Fellaini has no interest in signing a new deal and that he'll be gone before his current one expires?
Steve Collins
57   Posted 05/04/2011 at 15:15:06

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What a terrible waste of a page. Yes ok i admit we are financially strung but to suggest selling basically most of our squad to raise funds is mental.

Have most of you not seen how much players prices have been inflated over the last season or so? If it keeps up this so called £40-odd mill you guys suggest we get will only buy us 2 or 3 good players if we are lucky.

Not only that but our so called negotiaters including Moyes take forever over one player. It would take a couple of years at their rate to bring 4 or 5 players back in.

If someone wants to pay more than £20 million for Rodwell and Felliani then yes we should think about whats best for our team. But feck that ? why should we have a firesale and sell just about everyone else?

Realistically the only players that will leave for definite in the summer are Yakubu, Yobo and Vaughan. Mucha is out of contract so he's gone. And either of the two players mentioned.

I reckon Johnny will leave if we get a good offer but he will be one of the players Moyes will be very stubborn about, like always.
Tony J Williams
58   Posted 05/04/2011 at 17:38:55

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Didn't realise Moyes dealt with the negotiations himself, must have a degree in accountancy and a legal diploma that we must have missed.
Wayne Smyth
59   Posted 05/04/2011 at 17:37:18

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Dont understand Dave's logic at all.

Moyes bought all the players who are at the club except Hibbo, I think. Yes, his net spend is amazing, but he has had lots of money to spend in the past due to the inflated sales of Rooney, Lescott, etc, and the players we have ended up with do not form a good team.

There are some serious coaching deficiencies at our club. When we are consistently out-played by teams with inferior players, something is badly out of whack. The players we've got have ability but they seem to always lack confidence and belief... and that must come from the management team.

I also think Moyes has not bought the right kind of players for the squad when he had the funds. We have too few players with creativity or pace and too many players playing out of position. Give Moyes Messi and I'm sure he'd turn him into an average defensive midfielder within 6 months!

I also wonder what has happened with the likes of Yobo, Yak and Vaughan, £15 million pounds of talent shipped out when we are skint. I dont think Heitinga is significantly better than Yobo and I think that £6m could have been been better spent elsewhere. If the decision to ship those players out on loan is solely DM's doing then I'd ship him out tomorrow. If the board has forced the issue, you have to feel sorry for Moyes.

As for Coleman, I think he is one of the very few bright points of this season. Consistently shown effort, lack of fear, skill, pace and weighed in with his share of goals when our strikers are firing blanks.
Steve Collins
60   Posted 05/04/2011 at 21:16:52

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Tony,

I was talking about the time Moyes takes to mull over who he wants to chase and then the amount of time our directors and negotiators take trying to sign them.

Also all potential signings sit and chat with their new potential manager. Most players want to find out his plans and most managers want to see what the person is like.

So in some way he is a negotiator.

Finally, since when do you need to be an accoutant or have a legal degree to handle negotiations? I doubt most of the guys in charge that handle discussions do either.
Tony J Williams
61   Posted 05/04/2011 at 23:08:06

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What insight do you have on the length of time Moyes takes over his targets? Don't give Awwry any info, it will be like insider trading.

Here's me thinking that Moyes never lets anyone know who he is after, you must know him well.

The second he gives his names to Bill (who probably then just bins them) his job is done until the player in question comes to visit the club for a chat with Moyes.
James Flynn
62   Posted 05/04/2011 at 22:38:31

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We have a few Moyes comparsions here in the States. Three main ones:

In the NBA, Red Auerbach. Great coach, good teams, no championships his first 8-10 years coaching the Boston Celtics. Drafts Bill Russell; still today the winningest player in American pro team sport history. Title after title, something like 10 in 11 years, and suddenly Auerbach is a revered genius.

College basketball, which has a play-off type system leading to a National collegiate champion in basketball (very big over here). John Wooden coached UCLA about the same time as Auerbach before Russell with the same results; good teams, zero National championships. Lo and behold, a local businessman starts enticing players with cash under the table. Suddenly UCLA is a talent magnet for the best High School players in America for the next 12 years. In which time, Wooden (a good coach, no mistake) wins 10 National titles and became and remains a legend.

Finally (and I left for last since it's my team), The post-war NY Yankees hire Casey Stengel, a brilliant baseball mind and a complete failure as a manager for two different teams. Not to mention already 60 years old. Suddenly, managing a team bursting with talent at every position, he rolls to title after title, only losing to teams even more talented than his. Never anything close to a losing season.

There's not a damn thing wrong with Moyes except the lack of predators to scare his opposing manager. Plain and simple. If you flip him and Ferguson since Moyes came into EFC, the results for the 2 clubs would basically be the same.

Fuck all these "better" managers we should hire. We don't need a billionaire owner ( a ToffeWeb staple more prevalent than "square peg in wrong hole" or "becareful what you hope/wish for"). Moyes has us where it is clear he's missing the fellows up top to finish off teams. Nothing else is lacking.
Steve Collins
63   Posted 06/04/2011 at 00:36:37

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Tony, I have no insight whatsoever. But common sense suggests this dragging of the heels by the club previously on potential targets had many factors.

Moyes has never been known to be quick of the mark in signing players and the others at the club are worse when then trying to sign his suggested targets.

Ok, I accept most of the delays are caused by an inept board but we have made marquis big business singings by Moyes and the club at a very last minute. It can't all be down to the money men and the negotiators.

Also, didn't Moyes suggest in the past that when the summer comes he does nothing until July 2nd when pre-season starts and even then he concentrates solely on getting the team he has ready.

So he either passes along his info on targets just as the season ends or has a meeting before he sets off on his pre-season training.

Either way both he and the club take ages to decide or sign anyone.
Tony J Williams
64   Posted 06/04/2011 at 00:59:07

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Not too many seasons ago Moyes came out publically and stated he had given his lists of targets to the board. The A List, which he will never be likely to get and a B list, which still unlikely to get.

The board were probably looking at the G or H list for potential signings.

Moyes doesn't dither, he knows his targets but unfortunately the board either do absolutely miserly offers or forgets to tell the player we are after him even though we are applying for a work permit for him.

I don't believe this dithering Davie idea at all. Every manager knows what the team needs but it only happens when a) the right player is available and, more importantly, b) he is affordable to the club.
Roman Sidey
65   Posted 06/04/2011 at 02:20:13

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Whether it's Moyes or someone else at the club doing it, SOMEONE is fucking dithering in transfers, which leads to us either missing out or paying way too much for the player.

Case in point 1: we were linked with Arshavin the day after we played Zenit in the UEFA Cup, at least six months before he became the taste of Europe at Euro 2008, eventually deciding on Arsenal over Barcelona ? a player we could have had 12 months earlier had we acted on an impulse.

Case in point 2: Marouane Fellaini. We were linked with him at the start of the summer! When did we sign him? Deadline day! Paying £15million for him, which, in my opinion, was and still is way too much for him (probably worth more than that now, but transfer fees have probably doubled on average since 2008. Also, our record signing? Meh...

As I said, don't know who is responsible for this time wasting, but there is seriously something wrong with whoever is in charge of it.
Matthew Mackey
66   Posted 06/04/2011 at 09:29:38

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What about Gyan from Sunderland?

I have watched this player for years now, not only in the English PL but also in Ghana when he was much younger. (my missus in from Ghana so we've spent many a holiday watching football over there)

Gyan is quick, skilfull, and very clever. Look how he put Lescott on his arse recently in the friendly against England. In many ways he (Gyan) is like Saha without the sick note. The Blackcats will do there usual end of season decline, finishing up just above the drop zone, going nowhere so maybe a player like Gyan might like a new challenge next season./ So what about it Moyes?
Ray Roche
67   Posted 06/04/2011 at 09:58:25

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Here's a quote from Moyes about re-signing Fellaini.

"I think talks have started now, even though I've not spoken to Marouane personally about it," the Everton manager said.

Like a lot of managers, Moyes has virtually no input in negotiations to sign players. Sure, he can give a list of players he'd like, but it's then out of his hands. So all those complaining about Moyes being inept regarding players joining/leaving the club should turn their attentions to the people who do the buying. Kenwright, Elstone etc.
Oh, wait a minute, I think they may already have taken a bit of criticism...
Tony J Williams
68   Posted 06/04/2011 at 11:07:58

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Roman, they are not dithering, they are simply not even happening.

You can imagine the conversation with Moyes and the board:

M: Right lads, here are my targets, right winger, left winger to replace the lost Pienaar, a forward and definitely a back up for Baines.

B: Interesting David, some good players on that list, we will see what we can do and get back to you.

Three months later, deadline day on the phone.

M: Alright lads, I see you haven't returned my 357 calls yet, I was wondering how you are doing with the list I gave you?

B: What list, we don't know about any list... what's your name again?

M: It's me David, the manager!

B: Click....burrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

M: Hello....Hello?
Ernie Baywood
69   Posted 06/04/2011 at 11:35:11

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We won't finish 7th and even if we did we still wouldn't get into Europe.

Then I stopped reading.
Amit Vithlani
70   Posted 06/04/2011 at 11:39:51

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James Flynn #62 great post.

The thread is quite enjoyable. A few fantasy leage / championship manager flights of fancy, granted, but some interesting ideas.

Unfortunately I think one of two unpalatable scenarios may unfold which are not as exciting:

1 - To ease financial pressures, atleast one of Rodwell or Fellaini are sold. The saga drags into August, just like Lescott and Rooney. Only this time, Moyes walks a la Martin O'Neill just before the season starts. I have a feeling he no longer has the stomach for the fight if he loses Rodwell or Fellaini. He will have to scramble around to buy players. We know losing Felli will be a horrible blow. But those fans who think we are better off without Rodwell are wrong in my opinion. He is getting better and better and next season I have high hopes for him if he stays. Also, the impact on morale of the side in losing talented players will need Moyes to get good replacements - this side is built on team spirit, which can crumble when too many players leave.

2 - Or, very early sales of fringe players (Yobo, Yak, Vaughan, possibly Heitinga) allow the club's finances to stabilise and we keep Rodwell, whilst Fellaini gets a new contract. However, one of the two players will probably go in the January window, at which point Moyes will finally call it a day.

In either scenario I see us buying no one of note, other than perhaps another free transfer, loan or a young reserve

A scenario whereby we break-up the squad and are able to put a new side together is unrealistic for the following reasons:

1 - We will be forced sellers until some of the fringe players are off loaded. If this does not happen, we will be forced to sell either Rodwell or Fellaini and past experience tells us such transfers take months as the club holds out for more value.

2 - Having had appalling starts in the last couple of seasons, Moyes (or his replacement if he leaves) cannot afford the risk of having 5-6 first team players new to the club, needing time to settle. Again, recent experience shows that players such as Fellaini, Pienaar, Arteta only really began to perform well in their second season.

3 - Most importantly, if we sell Fellaini, Rodwell etc for an inflated price, you can be assured the asking price for our targets will also go up. Clubs will know we have gaps to fill and will be desperate to buy.


The summer may follow the depressing trend of days gone by but the intriguing aspect will be whether Moyes decides enough is enough and departs.

That will be a sad day; as James Flynn's posts suggest, with the right backing, he is a manager who could have turned us into a major force.
Andrew Rimmer
71   Posted 06/04/2011 at 18:49:05

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How many more strikers are we going to try, before most of you realise that a striker is not the problem? Beattie, Johnson, Yak, The list is endless of great strikers who have come to Goodison and never got any service!

There is a reason why we are always last on MotD, it's because we do not create chances! That is down to the team and tactics, the striker is only the bloke at the end of the chain to stick the ball in the net! I believe Beckford can do that oh, and maybe another striker alongside him! Now that would be a break from Moyes tradition eh?

Dean Adams
72   Posted 06/04/2011 at 20:24:05

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Andrew Rimmer ? Your suggestion is not based on fact, though, is it!!

We have a shot accuracy this season behind only Manure, Man City Liverpool and Arsenal. Total shots, we are 6th in the league, making your suggestion very much far from reality.

Andrew Rimmer
73   Posted 06/04/2011 at 20:36:59

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How come we're so boring to watch then?
Dean Adams
74   Posted 06/04/2011 at 23:12:02

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Have you tried watching about 15 other Prem teams, they are as bad or worse. Bloody TV highlights can make anyone look good when they are crap and vice versa.
Roman Sidey
75   Posted 06/04/2011 at 23:41:21

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I agree with Andrew on that one. Just because the stats say we're sixth in the league for shots, and have a good shots-on-target ratio doesn't mean our strikers are getting many chances. A lot of our shots are from midfielders and defenders going for the long ones (over 25 yds in this case). There is a reason why Baines's penalty on Saturday was our first for the season: it's because we're rarely in the box with the ball in the first place.

Dean, not trying to have a go at you, as your point certainly isn't wrong, but I don't care how boring 15 other Prem League teams are to watch. I only care that Everton are boring to watch.
Dave Harrison
76   Posted 07/04/2011 at 08:23:58

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Coleman is not a defender and has been one of our stand-out players all year. You're delusional.
Ray Roche
77   Posted 07/04/2011 at 09:36:58

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Andrew Rimmer.

Beattie, Johnson, The Yak? Great strikers? Beattie has had one good season, before he came to us; apart from that, he's been very average, playing for Stoke, Rangers and now Sheff Utd. So there were no queues of top clubs for this great striker when he left us...

Johnson, a one-trick pony, still scuttling into the penalty area for Fulham, in the vain hope of getting a pen or running for the corner flag.

And the Yak, well everyone knows he's doing what he does best. Playing his bollocks off for a season and then grazing up front as the game passes his fat arse by.

None of those strikers has exactly set the world alight after leaving Everton so it would be a bit rich to suggest that it's just Everton's tactics that are to blame. (I'm aware that the Yak has scored for Leicester but look at some of their fan web pages... They would like their £1M loan fee back and the Yak to return here.)

I will agree that NO forward gets the best of service at Everton, though, or is it a case of our best striker, Saha, spending too much time outside of the box, a point Roman has touched on with his remark regarding our lack of penalties...

Furthermore, in this season, our most disappointing for ages, due to our own ridiculously high expectations, we have, on ocassions, played some great football, but with no end product. I think if Moyes had been able to buy a real quality striker we'd have seen fewer draws and more wins.

Roman Sidey
78   Posted 07/04/2011 at 20:30:31

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Ray, I agree with you about the strikers, but feel you're being harsh on Yak and Beattie a bit. Yak was one of the League's premium strikers until his injury. Beattie has actually got a fairly decent scoring record at every other club except Everton.
Ray Roche
79   Posted 07/04/2011 at 23:12:42

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Roman,

I agree, the Yak IS one of the best Prem strikers, but his attitude stinks. Everywhere he's been, he sets the place on fire with great performances initially then takes his foot of the gas and coasts through games.

Beattie's a bit different. He's scored an average of 1 goal every 3.5 games at Southampton, Everton and Stoke. His efforts at Sheffield Utd are quite impressive but it's at a lower standard. But let's be honest, he's another striker who failed to light up the place when he was here and few fans mourned his departure.

James Flynn
80   Posted 07/04/2011 at 23:49:19

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Amit (70) - "A few fantasy leage / Championship Manager flights of fancy". Not sure what you mean there. These guys existed as I described them. Used them to illustrate how a good manager becomes a "genius" once he has good players; especially players who can score a basket, knock in a big run, etc.

This "Moyes Out" element is what I don't get. If Moyes is so bad, how come we don't lose more games?

I know why we don't win more; lack of top-flight finishers. There is no way the usual managers considered the best would do better in Moyes's tenure at EFC.

I've said several times that if one flipped Moyes with Ferguson at Man U, put him with Arsenal or Chelsea these last few years, the results would be the same.

As the only reason the games exists is to score more goals than the opponent, why do so many want Moyes out? Let's put Ronaldo (either one) on this season's team. How many points do you think we'd have right now?
James Flynn
81   Posted 08/04/2011 at 00:50:22

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"That will be a sad day; as James Flynn's posts suggest, with the right backing, he is a manager who could have turned us into a major force".

Whoops! Sorry brother. Meant to comment on this last. I believe current ownership will dump talent (salary) to drive down the purchase price. Still think we'll be OK. If Moyes stays. This season has to really be getting him down.
James Flynn
82   Posted 08/04/2011 at 00:58:05

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Andrew (71) - "Beattie, Johnson, Yak, The list is endless of great strikers who have come to Goodison and never got any service".

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!
Roman Sidey
83   Posted 08/04/2011 at 02:10:34

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Agree with you, Ray. Beattie was like most strikers Moyes has bought. Good first season, then nothing. He is also like most strikers Moyes buys in that he was given the world in his first season, then had it taken out from underneath him in his second and then made to answer for his dip in form. True though, when we sold him to Sheffield, not many of us were very upset about it.

James Flynn. I know you flipped your question yourself by saying you know why we don't win more. But that is the point. Not winning games against the opposition we have played is unacceptable and a lot of that blame has to be given to Moyes. In a world where he isn't grossly overpaid, I would have seen him sacked after the WBA loss at home. That game probably wasn't our worse performance all season, but, by far, the most unacceptable, disgusting result in many years (probably since the last time they beat us 4-0 in 05-06).
James Hollister
84   Posted 08/04/2011 at 04:35:14

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Everton are a lot more than a striker short believe me.

9 years on and the same excuse time and again. No, it's time Moyes went at the end of this season, enough is enough.

Think about it: Royle with his shitty side are able to win an FA Cup in a very much harder league than it is today... and the following season ends up 6th.

9 years later, we are no close to winning anything and always embarrassed out of Europe, with some very disappointing records broken along the way, which given our history, is just not acceptable.

He is dour and absolutely negative almost every single match. Tactics? Do me a favour, I'd doubt he know how to spell it let alone know what to do with a squad.

It's funny because when the squad is down to the absolute bare bones, they manage to perform... which says to me enough is enough with this manager ? time to pack your bags, Davey Boy!
James Hollister
85   Posted 08/04/2011 at 04:41:21

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Ray Roch - High expectations? Everton FC should be finishing inside the top 5 or 6 easily each season... wanna know why? Because this league has become piss easy to compete in.

Take this season or last season... hell, take it back to 2004, when we qualified for the Champions League, despite being on relegation form, loosing practically all of our remaining matches; the RS where no better themselves.

It's no coincidence that we've been able to finish high each year because the league has got easier and easier to compete in below those hallowed top 4 spots. You only have to look at last season, and how drastically bad we've been this season then look at the points separating us from a top 6 finish. Any one putting together a decent end-of-term run from around 10th could easily finish 6 and into a Europa place.

Best league in the world? Far from it... try a real league like the Spanish, who have taught some supposedly good sides just how shit they are.
Ray Roche
86   Posted 08/04/2011 at 08:49:05

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James,
Think back to pre-season. Lads were coming on here predicting, not just a top four finish, but possibly even finishing as Champions. At the time, I thought this was ridiculous, and when we got off to such a crap start the outcome was inevitable.

You say that Everton should be "finishing inside the top 5 or 6 easily each season... wanna know why? Because this league as become piss easy to compete in" which, in itself is a ludicrous statement because, if the league is getting easier for US to compete in, then it's easier for EVERYONE to compete in, and clubs with more financial clout than us, which is just about all clubs, will still have a head start on us. How many times have the media claimed that we are "punching above our weight"? We were, in their eyes, in a false position when we've finished top six in the past.

However, it is disappointing that we have been so bad this season with so many draws when just about every club regarded as our peers, bar City and their millions, have also struggled and our chance to progress has stalled following our bad start. Who would have predicted Villa's demise after the last couple of seasons?

Tony J Williams
87   Posted 08/04/2011 at 11:52:26

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A real league like the Spanish League? Is that the league where one of two will definitely win it? just like teh Scottish League. At least there is probably three or four that can win this league. Not much of a difference but at least there is one.
Roman Sidey
88   Posted 08/04/2011 at 13:38:06

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Tony, fair only two teams have won La Liga since 2004 (The Premier League is no different), but the race for 3rd/4th is a lot tighter than it is in England.

Our expectations this year were scaffolded by Moyes. He talked this squad up, and let us think that things were going to be better/different this season. He was probably right about the squad, but left out the part that he had no idea of how to utilise it.
Marcus Kendall
89   Posted 08/04/2011 at 22:53:37

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Why fans want to cash in on Rodwell is beyond me, he's going to be a top player and just because he's not had the best of seasons won't change that.

Personally I'd sell Fellaini and Heitinga because we'd get good fees for them and Fellaini for all his qualities just isn't disciplined enough to be a defensive midfielder.
James Flynn
90   Posted 09/04/2011 at 00:22:44

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Let's not forget that EFC gets every team's best shot. All the top sides' managers make sure there's no let down when playing Everton and the lower sides know they have to play their best against us.

And yet, we remain so hard to defeat. Hmmmmmmmmmm?

Lack of an Henry or Ronaldo, etc is what's holding us back. Not Moyes.

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