What struck me the most was that those who played in their true positions actually had reasonably good games. It was those who were asked to do something different from what they are reasonably good at who looked hopelessly outclassed. Football is a team game and I rarely pick out individuals. You win or lose together. Yes that can be an over-used and good quote but in this case the sum of the parts did not make a whole (or it did make several ?holes?? ooops, sorry ? couldn?t resist that).
So here we go:
- Howard ? good goalkeeper: good game, no problem.
- Hibbert ? played in his right position: god game with Seamus playing as back-up right back. I think Magaye and then Osman finally slotted in front of him when Evra and Giggs started stampeding down our right.
- Jagielka ? played in his only position: great game, woeful distribution... but amazing defensive work.
- Distin ? won everything in the air and fast across the pitch? OK, so Man Utd are a team of midgets; great game until his slip.
- Baines ? limited attacking today but we have lost that successful outlet down our left. Probably doesn?t trust anyone to cover him when he pushes forward? well, would you trust Bily to take a piss on his own?
- Coleman ? has been struggling to recapture his early season form and now seems to play like a 2nd full back. Does OK but needs to learn how to fire in crosses like Bainsey. But basically is playing out of position... he is a full back.
- Rodwell ? was largely anonymous, lost in the middle of the park (except the only decent shot); out tackled and out muscled by Gibson etc, despite where he has played all his football life with the Blues, he is yet to start in (what I think is) his best position: centre back... though his weakness in the air is a worry. Not sure the evil baron Ferguson wants to pay $20 million to play him in midfield unless as a sweeper in front of his back four.
- Neville ? Captain Fantastic does an amazing job of looking like a centre-midfielder but we all know he is either a fullback or a deep defensive midfielder with someone like Arteta or Osman alongside him? but, when paired with Rodwell, they are both playing as defensive midfielders.
- Bilyaletdinov ? can?t be bothered to waste any words on him when he is played wide... but, to be fair to the lad, he is not a wide player. He should play off the main striker; he is frigging 6 foot and could win the odd knock-down and can shoot when he is arsed. How many more times will Moyes play him wide? Is Moyes so friggin stubborn or just plain stupid???
- Osman ? who has played so well recently but has played in MIDFIELD alongside a ?ball winner?. So why would you change that and stick him further upfield to play off Beckford or do a ?Cahill? and come in from deep??? Only problem is, without Ozzie in midfield, no-one can play the ball that is needed? so no qualitiy balls to Ozzie or Beckford. Was Ozzie played out of position so Captain Jack could play in front of his future boss????
- Beckford ? Strengths: quick with an eye for goal. My granny could tell you he is NOT a target man. He can?t really jump, doesn?t like the physical battle and is not an ?old-fashioned" centre-forward. Needs to have balls played in along the floor... but do we ever do that??? Nope, not when Ozzie is not in midfield. So... being asked to do a job he is not good at.
So in my estimation we have 5/6 playing in their proper positions and then 5 who are not ? against the best reserve team in Europe ? and, of course, the inevitable happens... plus the inevitable speech from the Boss: ?I though we defended admirably and were unlucky not to come away with a point.?
Next week Wigan and we look a top 6 team again... COYBs
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1 Posted 24/04/2011 at 19:57:23
I don't think that's really the point. This bloody maddening utilitarian philosophy is Moyes to a Tee. It is what he has created for Everton over the last NINE YEARS ? and it is crap. He is a firm believer in playing players out of position and he clearly is never going to change.
2 Posted 24/04/2011 at 20:26:42
I wrote an article with a similar theme after the Villa game at home. All the usual responses appeared; "no money" "no players".
Expect the same Moyes lovers to appear here shortly.
My main gripe is that even with the injuries, we could get more from / do more with the players available.
That is when the buck stops with the manager.
The first half made me embarrassed. We seemed content to try and hold out whilst also knowing that their goal was an inevitability.
3 Posted 24/04/2011 at 20:37:26
4 Posted 24/04/2011 at 20:58:57
For what it's worth, I would sell Rodwell to raise funds. I fear he won't be that good so let's sell him before everybody else realises.
5 Posted 24/04/2011 at 21:25:11
I NEVER for one minute fooled myself into believing we had a strong squad at the start of this season. We have had absolutely no cover at all for Baines and he has been our best player, especially when he had Pienaar in front and supporting his runs.
Our defenders are in the main superb and all put themselves on the line in every game; when any of them make a mistake its highlighted... but our 'offense' :0)) make hardly an effort so nothing is expected from them. Our defenders deserve a big bonus for carrying the rest of the mob we had out there against Man Utd.
I just learned that Davies has played three full seasons for Bolton without missing a game through injury. Sturridge is a brilliant loan player for them and has just about every asset a proper striker should have. Chelsea have so many top strikers they could afford to loan him out (why didn't we try for him?).
Then again, the loan system (which I hate) only works one way for us... OUT!!
6 Posted 24/04/2011 at 22:04:08
7 Posted 24/04/2011 at 22:54:57
You're starting at the wrong point.
When we got to 4th, that's when the question should be put, this season and all the debacles associated with it are a result of crap decisions since then.
8 Posted 25/04/2011 at 02:03:35
Dave Cooper, what do you expect the Manager to do? Not bother playing someone in that team because he doesn't have a specialist for that position? Maybe we should have just played the game with seven players.
The only sensible piece in this arcticle is that Victor Anichebe who is not only not good enough for the Everton but is not up EPL standards. The rest the article is absolutely pointless. Nothing personal just fact!
9 Posted 25/04/2011 at 03:45:06
10 Posted 25/04/2011 at 04:20:16
Magaye Gueye keeps getting deployed in the midfield when Moyes has had enough of Bily, and that's OK, but Gueye is better as a striker in a partnership. Use him like that for a change.
What happened to Vellios?? The guy has only played maybe 20 mins and hasn't scored or anything, but he has shown a bit of potential, a lot of hunger, and for me, would get the nod ahead of Anichebe any day. If he proves to be shit? Well, you won't know unless you play him.
Coleman is a winger, not a fullback. He has flaws and needs to improve bits of his game, but he's a winger.
Rodwell I have no idea about. You might be right about him being a good central defender but, seeing as he's never played there, I don't see how you can make that call.
I watched Bolton defeat Arsenal last night (it was funny as shit watching Wenger go off his head), and I think, if given the choice, I WOULD take Owen Coyle as manager at Everton. Don't know how brilliant he'd be, and whether or not he'd be as "consistent" as Moyes, but I think he would have taken the game to United, instead of playing for a draw, and that's what I wanted to see from us. I can handle defeat; can't handle not trying to win.
11 Posted 25/04/2011 at 04:45:49
I wouldn't let Anichebe work the turnstiles. You could put the toffee lady in the striker's position and achieve the same result.
12 Posted 25/04/2011 at 08:16:24
13 Posted 25/04/2011 at 08:26:04
Chris #10... you hit the nail on the head with your last sentence "I can handle defeat; can't handle not trying to win." Thats' why we are all pissed off. But this is the way Moyes always approaches big games. If we had the full squad fit, the tactics would still have been the same. Moyes will never change.
14 Posted 25/04/2011 at 10:31:11
Touche, my friend.
If only they'd not made those defensive errors at the foot of that hill. My word... history and Everton really are becoming blurred.
15 Posted 25/04/2011 at 10:32:52
Rodwell seems to play with the mentality of an out-and-out Central Defender. Players of that ilk (eg, Vidic) only react to a striker's moves; they are there to tackle the striker or intercept by beating the striker to the ball after the striker takes the initiative.
I believe it isn't in Rodwell's game to take the initiative which is why he never takes the bull by the horns and dominates; instead, the game just passes him by.
As Chris Bannantyne says though (post #10), I've never seen him play in Central Defence so don't know if he has the defensive attributes to go with the defensive attitude. If he does then maybe Moyes should have let him play there when Lescott left and spent the Distin £5 million on an experienced midfielder instead. (I know Distin has been fantastic but it's more to do with what was a position of need... which defence wasn't if Rodwell can really play there.)
16 Posted 25/04/2011 at 12:15:43
We also are unable to bring on internationals from our bench because our bench is full of school kids.
17 Posted 25/04/2011 at 12:19:57
18 Posted 25/04/2011 at 14:05:13
How a Premier League club can't raise a few million over 3 years is an absolute disgrace. Hang your head in shame, Kenwright!!
19 Posted 25/04/2011 at 14:19:06
I have no problem with the squad Moyes put out there. What I have a problem with is that 1 point wouldn't have meant much to us considering our position in the table. We parked the bus against ManU's second team and seemed scared to pass the ball. We fell back on the old hoof ball tactics even though everyone knows that Beckford is horrible at it.
There was zero resemblance to the squad that was "in form" in recent weeks. I needed to see guys like Neville and Osman pushing our guys to get forward but maybe Moyes actually wanted us to park the bus.
Now we're going to have a fight on our hands just to hold off Bolton who have it much easier the final few weeks.
20 Posted 25/04/2011 at 14:33:20
"When we got to 4th, that's when the question should be put; this season, and all the debacles associated with it, are a result of crap decisions since then."
We got 61 points that year, our equal best in the Prem era. In each of the past three seasons, we have equalled or bettered that. We have improved since then.
But Moyes did get it wrong last season. We got no first class striker, and had players to sell in order to fund an acquisition. Moyes was too loyal to his players. He won't make the same mistake this year ? he may make others but not that.
We need two strikers and an RM. Or we'll simply not take on the likes of Man U, especially with our recent roll call of injured. The likely sales of Yobo, Yak, Vaughan, and hopefully Anichebe should fund just one of those ? a striker.
We then wait on Felli ? will he sign? If not, sell and buy a replacement and at least one other. If he signs, sell someone else, and do the same with less cash.
It's a big close season, as last year's was wasted.
21 Posted 25/04/2011 at 14:45:39
It's quite funny that a lot of posters in various threads have stated that Man U were playing with their second string team... were we not also? The names mentioned by Chris (#4) show half of our team out, not by choice but by injury.
Yes, but that would not help their simple one-Dimensioanl rant, would it? I'm not beyond having a go at Moyes. But it is tiresome reading some of the crap we do.
22 Posted 25/04/2011 at 15:07:11
Firstly, I think Moyes is basically a good manager of limited resources, which we all know is the future of Everton FC. He infuriates many by his strange yet predictable choices of choosing to play many players out of position. This is not a new trend and is a reflection of a small squad but also may show that perhaps Moyes has a list of players who he thinks are good enough to play in the Premier League and he plays those players before others, even if they have to play out of position. Now we can say that it should not be a big deal for professional footballers to play out of position. Certainly 30 years ago, players appeared to be more adaptable and willing to play anywhere for the team. Those days are sadly long gone...
So ?what would I do?? Firstly, there is nothing at all wrong with how we have defended all season. Jags and Syl have been playing out of their skins defensively so no place for Heitinga, who I think is only a good centre back. But both Jags and Syl have remained reasonable fit and played most games so, to accommodate Heitinga, he is played out of position, unlike in previous years when we have always had an injury there.
So, leaving the back 5 alone, given what Moyes had available on Saturday, I would have played Neville and Ozzie together in midfield with Neville picking up Rooney as and when he dropped into midfield. I would have left Rodwell on the bench, no matter how good a player Moyes thinks he is. Playing Coleman as a 2nd right back to help Hibbert and look after Evra (if he had started) was a reasonable call plus Seamus would always get forward and not expose Hibbert in two-on-one situations.
On the left, I would have been brave and played Magaye. We are safe from the drop, we never win at OT, so what is there to lose? Magaye might have been a surprise but certainly no worse than Bily who we all know, when he plays wide, is shite. So a midfield of Seamus, Neville, Osman and Magaye.
I would have played Bily in the hole behind Beckford. So, before everyone disagrees, let me explain myself. Bily must be able to play somewhere or he would not be a starter for Russia. For them, he regularly plays in that position so he should know what he is doing there. The huge problem is that Moyes bought him as a winger, not as central attacker, and so has never considered him there, which I know must sound amazing. But we have no idea what goes on in training from Monday to Friday, we only see the finished product come Saturday or Sunday. So if he doesn?t play there in training, he is never going to play there on match days. But, week after week, he comes on as sub and plays wide and then does nothing. He must be itching to get back to Siberia!!!
So that leaves Beckford who I said before is not a target man but against Manure is going to have to challenge better for long balls from our back four. In between the hopeful punts, with Ozzie in midfield and helped maybe by Bily, he would have got better service. But there is no excuse for Beckford?s lack of enthusiasm. He is not good enough to play the ?prima donna? role. But, with some service along the floor and into spaces, he may have been less pissed off.
So it is the same 10 players who started with Rodwell swapped for Magaye. In this way, less players are playing out of their ?true? position where they have most of their strengths. As a coach I have always believed the more players you can have playing in their best positions, the better chance you have of being successful. If Cahill was 100% match fit then I would have him in Bily?s position but clearly he is nowhere near fit? not the old Timmy Cahill ?fit? who has been consistently our best player over the past 5 years.
So, long winded, I know? but what else is there to do on Easter Monday???
23 Posted 25/04/2011 at 15:32:34
That Aussie schoolkid did good then, you know... the one who must've been lying about his age... and shouldn't really be playing anyway because he has a sore foot. But don't let that spoil a good soundbyte.
Oh, and what about that big hulking Nigerian bloke? Is he lying about his age as well? Still at school? Hasn't he played for Nigeria? Or doesn't that count?
Jan Mucha, Slovakian World Cup International goalkeeper... Age: 28 ? that's TWENTY-EIGHT!!!
And who else was there? Magaye Gueye, French Under-21, age: 20... hardly a school-kid!
Apostolos Vellios, started his professional career in 2008. Age 19, already played for the Greek U-19 side. Schoolkid???
Last One: Shkodran Mustafi... surely must still be at school? No, he's 19 also... and represented his country.
I know you like to post a lot, Tony, and especially spout any excuse that absolves Moyes of all blame, but are you actually proud of posting this shite?
24 Posted 25/04/2011 at 16:57:17
25 Posted 25/04/2011 at 17:06:30
Now you want to compound it with more? What figures have I taken liberties with?
26 Posted 25/04/2011 at 17:08:48
Appearance this season for Man Ure
Van Der Saar - 40
O'Shea - 30
Ferdinand - 24
J Evans - 17
Fabio - 20
Valencia (just back from injury) 14
Gibson - 18
Anderson - 26
Nani - 43
Rooney - 34
Hernandez - 40
Subs coming on
Eva - 43
Owen - 14
Giggs - 34
I tell you what! these second string players don't half get a lot of playing time from old whiskey nose.
27 Posted 25/04/2011 at 17:15:08
Now... back to the topic: seven non-international schoolkids. Are you going to correct that, or just continue to "take liberties" with your false statements?
28 Posted 25/04/2011 at 17:15:41
United's last reserve game
Lindegaard; Gill (R Brown 46), W Brown, Wootton, O'Shea; King (Vermijl 46), Gibson, Scholes (Norwood 60), Fabio; Brady, Obertan
I count 3 players who were in the team on saturday.
Now 3 into 14 is roughly a 5th so that is a completely false statement, is it not? We didn't play the reserves, you exaggerated, just like I have done but apparently because I do it, it is posting shit..hmmm
29 Posted 25/04/2011 at 17:23:07
And I think I will continue to take liberties with my false statements, it's quite fun and liberating not worrying about whether what I say is true or not.
30 Posted 25/04/2011 at 17:33:48
So, back to the issue, you shamelessly stand behind your "non-internationals and schoolkids" lie? Have I got that right?
31 Posted 25/04/2011 at 17:50:40
32 Posted 25/04/2011 at 17:30:01
1) the only reason Baines didn't get forward is because Valencia had him on a fucken spit all afternoon.
2) Jagielka "only position is center-half" ? Bollocks, he was a journeyman who had played all over the place for Warnock. Moyes took him and molded him into an international center-half.
3) This is the funniest ? or maybe just the most desperate ? every time somebody wants to big Coleman up, he`s a right sided midfield player "who should be young player of the year"... then, worra ya know, as soon as the next in a long line of "square pegs round holes" post gets put up there... he`s a full back again.
4) Rodders is also out of position because... err... because... err, well, because he is, that's why. It doesn't matter he`s never played a competetive game at the back, we are slagging Moyes off and we need to make the numbers up... so he`s a defender.
5) SAF may well have played Neville in midfield all over Europe but when Moyes does it he's a full back... or a defensive Midfield player who`s playing with Rodders, another "Defensive midfield" player... who by the way was earlier described as a sweeper who plays "IN FRONT" of the back four???
6) Moyes is described as friggin stupid because Bily is six foot and could "WIN THE ODD KNOCK DOWN"!!!
7) Ossie ? that perennial square peg now apparently has a hole... "but he was played in the Cahilll role at OT" ... SURELY YOU MUST HAVE SEEN IT???
8) Beckford was played out of position because he was "being asked to do a job he`s not good at" ? I think he means engage the center back.
9) Then the tired old "Played a weakened Man U" card was played. A pathetic claim as only Viddic out of his first choice line-up was rested.
No wonder people are starting to find these Moyes bashing posts increasingly difficult to take seriously.
33 Posted 26/04/2011 at 11:02:37
The point made still stands... why resort to wordplay to discredit someone?
Utd's team was slightly weakened... but still very much more experienced than ours. In fact, is was close to full strength.
Sometimes I wonder why you bother, Michael. Nothing wrong with being anti-Moyes but when you take it to the point of a clear agenda on a website for which you set the direction it starts to look a bit dodgy. You'll happily resort to trotting out half truths and picking holes in valid points that don't fit your agenda. Why the wordplay? There must be more to this? Why puch to discredit any opinion that strays from the Toffeeweb line? Independent my arse... there is a clear agenda - I just don't why.
Just a terrible Evertonian, in my opinion.
I'll expect the post deletion, the ban and customary semi-abusive email. Thanks for the last few years.
34 Posted 26/04/2011 at 11:24:09
Anyway, as I have said I will now feel free to make up facts and figures to suit my posts, why not? Others do.
Have a go, it's very liberating.
35 Posted 26/04/2011 at 16:19:49
See, the problem is this: what he said, supposedly for effect, was in fact a total lie. That's where I draw the line. None of the players on the Everton bench were schoolkids; all of them have represented their respective countries. Those are indisputable facts, as I demonstrated.
If that's "wordplay" and agenda (what agenda would that be exactly?), I'm not sure how me flagging these falsehoods can be labelled "anti-Moyes"? However, insulting our senior playing staff by calling them "schoolkids" is Okay for Evertonians like Tony and presumably yourself??? At age 19, they are no longer "kids"; we have had kids on the bench, but not on Saturday.
I know Tony has a long standing agenda of slamming our players while giving our wonderful manager an easy ride, but he has now repeated his mission statement for continuing to write lies and falsehoods in his contributions. While I have no problem with the first part, I do have a problem with second part.
36 Posted 26/04/2011 at 17:33:13
No amount of hiding behind, "plenty of others thought that too" detracts from it either.
"That's where I draw the line" ? obviously not for yourself.
37 Posted 26/04/2011 at 22:35:46
Can you see the difference? Thought not.
38 Posted 26/04/2011 at 23:36:08
Can you see the difference? of course you can't.
39 Posted 26/04/2011 at 23:42:30
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