It's sad but I no longer remotely believe we'll ever win any kind of trophy with our current manager and I honestly don't think we'll ever make the Champions League with him again.
And let's be honest, it would be frightening to see us humiliated by the big boys early on in that competition; the current team is stale, it's where it is in the league because of how poor the Premier League has become... Best in the World? ? only in the money that's generated; certainly not the footie that's played!
If we are to progress (not necessarily winning things), we do need better management of our players, and what I see, week-in and week-out, is complete mismanagement of the highest order.
Anichebe should never be allowed anywhere near the first team. Further, throwing on your favourite players to disrupt a team that was running on form is another bad move... but he keeps on doing it.
Moyes struggles big time with critical decisions. We should have won a lot more games this season, and we all know that, but, at the end of the day, it's down to the manager ? he picks the sides... and he has failed in the job to do that.
If it was just an isolated season I could probably find a way to forgive him; but, for me, this is not isolated, it's the exact same mistakes made week-in and week-out... It's not about the money; it's about the ability of the manager to do his job properly.
He simply has to go now; he has been too negligent over the years... and has allowed his preferences to over rule what could have been a great squad playing great football.
It's been said to death, that he is a dour and absolutely negative manager, and we'll never win a thing under him. The last straw for me was how absolutely stinking we where against United at Old Trafford... that was just utterly embarrassing ? what was it? Two shots on goal? And that against a second string side... appalling! And the worst part is, that's too much of a kind word for the state of that performance.
Once Moyes goes, BIll Kenwright will be vulnerable... and he will have no choice but to sell... coz no-one in their right mind would want the job with the current custodians. It's sad that it's not only the board who have no ambition ? it's the manager too, despite the crock of shite he and the players spout each week.
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1 Posted 03/05/2011 at 17:35:26
Or are you suggesting that it's Moyes that is keeping the wolves from the door... that's not very logical if he is stale and negligent.
2 Posted 03/05/2011 at 17:48:26
They both defend each other to the hilt. And you know, if Smith would have played ball at the time with BK, I honestly think he'd still be here.
BK surely knows there is a part of the fan base that is against him and his regime? That he cannot continue... but the same fans are too afraid that if they 'somehow' managed to do the impossible and get rid of BK, Moyes would also walk out the door too, which imo is part of the reason why they haven't really tried their hardest to get rid of BK.
It might seem illogical and probably is but it's my belief that Moyes is indeed keeping the Wolves away... coz I do believe with him gone, BK would have no one to defend his actions and he'd be turfed out too.
3 Posted 04/05/2011 at 07:18:12
4 Posted 04/05/2011 at 07:36:32
Smith was sacked because he was taking us down and had produced the most pathetic cup quarter-final performance in living memory.
5 Posted 04/05/2011 at 07:43:00
Under Moyes, I remember a semi-final against Chelski which ranks alongside that, a 6-1 drubbing on opening day by Arsenal, a 4-1 defeat by Blackburn in the cup, battered by Dinamo Bucharest 5-1, humiliated by West Brom 4-0, Newcastle beating us 6-2....... the list goes on and on.
6 Posted 04/05/2011 at 07:53:30
For the short term, Everton will be happy and most likely will be budgeting each year to finish between 8-10th, anything else will be a bonus. Man City's spending power and the sound business model of Spurs means that Everton realistically have no chance. Add to that the Shite who will slowly improve... it'll be forever difficult finishing in the top 6 let alone 4th.
7 Posted 04/05/2011 at 07:58:33
Moyes has given us some of the lowest points in our history, but we have never been that close to going down. 2003-04 was the lowest but that's because we stopped when safe, something Moyes has gone on record as saying was part of the culture he inherited at the club.
The above shouldn't be taken as me saying staying up is good enough but NSNO expected by fans is not the reality inside the club, IMO.
8 Posted 04/05/2011 at 08:26:09
9 Posted 04/05/2011 at 08:22:16
I've tried to read this article with an open mind but I have to say it strikes me as overwhelmingly unbalanced.
Everton are about to record their fifth consecutive top 8 finish in the Premier League, we are such a model of stability in that respect that most other bottom half teams see us a model target. Crisis you say!
"Complete mismanagement of the highest order" ? of course, that's why he's regarded as one of the best young managers in the UK.
"It's not about the money; it's about the ability of the manager to do his job properly." ? How on earth can it not be about the money when everything (including Champions League places) is won 95% of the time by the richest clubs???
"Coz no-one in their right mind would want the job with the current custodians." ? silly statement. Any Championship manager would jump at the chance.
Sorry if I'm being pedantic; I agree in gist with the fact that Moyes has made some big mistakes this season and that the prospect for winning silverware in the near future looks bleak. However, as Kunal points out, the overwhelming reason for this is money and I simply don't see how sacking Moyes (the basis of our sustained stability within the lucrative Premier League) is going to help us bring more money to the club.
10 Posted 04/05/2011 at 08:45:47
I agree our finances will mean we won't finish top 4 anytime soon but who won the Carling Cup this year? Who did we lose to in that competition? Which other 'smaller' clubs have we seen win cups whilst Moyes has been in charge?
Moyes needs to change his priorities. Try and actually win a cup. I couldn't give a shit about 'top 8' finishes. Give me 14th and and a cup any day.
11 Posted 04/05/2011 at 09:00:33
But I worry that if we consistently finish 14/15/16 and do not manage the cup win, our players will leave, along with a large amount of the fans, then you will end up playing Wimbledon in the FA Cup with an attendance of 15,293.
12 Posted 04/05/2011 at 09:06:15
If that is the extent of our realistic ambition, I would say that describes a club in crisis... of which more in a moment.
James: I frequently find Moyes infuriating with his tactics and style of play. However, the root cause of our problems is a board without money, vision, ambition, or business nouse. Get rid of Moyes and the lack of finance will still be there.
KENWRIGHT OUT, then see how DM fares.
Which brings me back to Sam's point at No 9: If Evertonians are satisfied with finishing 8th, are we ever going to get rid of this smug and complacent and visionless board? Are people really happy that this is now as good as it gets?
13 Posted 04/05/2011 at 09:06:13
On the other hand, I share Alan's gist that we should be taking a serious tilt at the FA Cup.
14 Posted 04/05/2011 at 09:09:02
I think that investment could see Everton challenging for Champions League footy and I hate it that once again our season is mediocre. But crisis? Sometimes I really think some fans here have lost touch with reality. There is plenty of room for improvement and I am not denying that. But don't be a drama queen.
15 Posted 04/05/2011 at 09:25:06
Make up your mind which it is and then make a coherent post discussing it.
16 Posted 04/05/2011 at 09:25:11
Sam did not say he was happy with that, he was stating a fact to show that we are not in crisis, Portsmouth are in crisis, West Ham are in crisis, but a club that hasn't had to worry about relegation since the new manager came in and has finished comfortably in the top 10 for the last 5 years is not a sign of a crisis; not good enough, certainly... but nowhere near a crisis.
17 Posted 04/05/2011 at 09:32:01
It's like when people say Moyes's team is shite then go on, in the same post, to say they should be doing so much better.
I'm disillusioned with the club right now and that includes the manager. But criticism has to come from a logical standpoint, or it's pointless.
18 Posted 04/05/2011 at 09:07:27
I would challenge Round to tick what boxes he deems Victor to be good at: Ball Control. Goal scoring. Heading ability, Attitude. Workrate...
If a coach's main job is to improve the skill of players, why has Round been patently incapable of improving by a factor of one, any of Victor's above-mentioned weaknesses? I would then challenge Moyes to explain why he thought Victor was worthy of a new 4½-year contract.
19 Posted 04/05/2011 at 09:32:50
The stability/mediocrity [delete as applicable] afforded by Moyes's consistent league finishes mean the Board's approach hasn't yet resulted in a real crisis. Perhaps it will take a crisis such as relegation to force the changes necessary in the Boardroom; otherwise, I fear we'll continue to stagnate.
20 Posted 04/05/2011 at 09:42:42
Alan ? whilst your sarcasm is belittlingly juvenile, I agree that Moyes's cup record is poor and I would also probably take 14th and silverware.
Chris ? did I say I was satisfied or did I say it was a sign of stability? Look again.
21 Posted 04/05/2011 at 09:52:31
22 Posted 04/05/2011 at 10:02:58
There are many different things at play in this thread and the themes are often repeats of others in other posts, eg:
? Kenwright's ability to secure financial future / footing
? Money, money money
? Moyes can he take us further, tactics
? Club in crisis
? And poor old big Vic
I am amazed that someone is surprised that one person when watching a match can have a completely different view to another ? it is in fact what I would expect. When the views are polar, ie, "he was great" versus "he was crap" then it is more puzzling. (To my mind he was probably crap and someone is trying to boost confidence or offer reassurance by talking it up. A cynic might argue that "potential" is in football terms a synonym for "probably crap"...)
My views, for what they are worth:
? Moyes is the best man for the job; if he leaves, it is a great loss and there would be a great deal of uncertainty regarding the degree to which any replacement is better.
? "Crisis"? no, not yet ? there are enough good players assembled that, if fit and contributing to even 90% of their potential, can make us a 4th, 5th or 6th place team.
? More money is needed to break into the top three ? no shit!
Great website and the only one I look at at least 5 times a day...
23 Posted 04/05/2011 at 10:18:02
I cannot for the life of me believe that we have no money at all... FFS, the fans turn up rain or shine and we are still in the Premier League. We loan OUT to lower the wage bill and I will not accept any other reason for a full team of players being absent. We seem to trot out the same old players, week-in and week-out; our playing format and style is obvious and limited.
None of this is down to any players on the books, they are just not good enough to be any higher in the league and DM is the Old Mother Hubbard of the division...
MISMANAGEMENT is the cause of our dilemma ? otherwise we would not have allowed a situation where Gosling left on a free and Pienaar left for peanuts (pardon my pun)... Unless a budget is provided for BUYING players, we are doomed to continue to wallow in mediocrity and hope to avoid relegation!!!
24 Posted 04/05/2011 at 10:36:48
"Unless a budget is provided for BUYING players, we are doomed to continue to wallow in mediocrity and hope to avoid relegation!!!"
No, we have a team that is capable to finish anywhere between the 4th and 10th place, roughly. We are miles away from being a relegation candidate. I am not happy with the way things are going right now but I am getting tired with the relegation talks. We are really two or three steps further than at least ten teams in the Premier League.
25 Posted 04/05/2011 at 11:02:48
There's a real defeatist attitude amongst fans right now - we've no money so don't expect anything. We see year after year, Moyes playing weakened teams in the cups and prioritising 8th place finishes over a good cup run.
Losing to Brentford and Reading at home is inexcusable for a club like ours. That's not mentioning the shockers like away at Shrewsbury. It also shows us getting knocked out of these competitions has nothing to do with finances. Moyes has already shown on any given day our team is capable of beating anyone so he should put more priority on to the cup competitions. Give us some glory for god's sake. Finishing 8th is not an achievement to shout about.
26 Posted 04/05/2011 at 11:26:21
The only crisis I can see is in a recognition to our ambitions hitting a brick wall due to the improved stature of our direct competitors for top 4, Spurs and City, and the continued capabilities of the other three bigguns.
We don't like it but this post smacks of a sulking. And I understand that aswell.
We're not failing in coming 8th, but its no success either. But if anyone has a great masterplan on how to beat the trophey machine of Utd, the two richest clubs in the world, the Arsenal of Wenger and a well funded Tottenham on our Division 1 transfer budget, give Moyes a call.
27 Posted 04/05/2011 at 10:42:45
We all knew things were pretty bad, but I think our dealings in the transfer market over the past 18 months highlight the true seriousness of our situation.
The first point of solving any crisis is to identify the cause(s), I think the one irrefutable fact is the current board are either incapable or unwilling to provide the manager with any sort of funds with which to compete.
Now you may believe Moyes is responsible for the team and is therefore responsible for the position we now find ourselves, but does anybody really believe that these would be the players of his choice? Are they the players he wanted or the ones he could afford? I think deep down we ALL know the answer to that one.
Another manager may well be the answer, but I think the majority feel it isn't. To say they are happy with the situation is something only somebody who doesn't understand the Evertonian would say. The people who want Moyes to stay are far from happy ? not least with him ? but they understand that under the current board, any new manager would be asked to compete with zero funding; whilst there is a slim chance he may fair a little better, there is a very big danger he won't. And of course there is always the danger he will be an awful lot worse.
Sacking the manager represents a huge gamble; unless you firmly believe that a new manager will overcome all logical odds and on the budget available to him, suddenly have us challenging for honours, it's one that's not worth taking.
The board must go first. then perhaps we can start rolling the dice...
28 Posted 04/05/2011 at 11:31:53
However, I disagree slightly about the league, I do think our stability as a top 8 side is something to be pleased about when you consider that, when Moyes arrived, we were perenially flirting with relegation. It's not enough and of course we all want more but I do think that it reflects well on Moyes.
29 Posted 04/05/2011 at 12:18:15
We have seen the dizzying heights of almost getting into the Champion's League and now anything less than that is a failure in many people's eyes.
I remember 1998, when we were invading the pitch and singing with joy, just for staying up on the last day of the season. That was nervous excitement and unless we are in the top 4 or bottom 4 we will not feel that excitement again and that is why we the fans, the players, the team and the manager are now conceived as stale. We don't worry about the drop and unfortunately we do not believe we can compete for the league.
We are a floating team that is quite good on its day but these days don't occur very often because our players are nowhere near as good as we like to think they are. (Well some anyway, others think they are all crap but are shocked when we don't win... strange that.)
30 Posted 04/05/2011 at 12:25:21
31 Posted 04/05/2011 at 12:50:18
I just don't feel that David Moyes has it in him to change, he's not a new or young manager anymore. I'm not saying he's the man we must have, but I'm impressed with Eddie Howe at Burnley, I work in Burnley, and there is a feel good factor back at the club.
32 Posted 04/05/2011 at 13:51:38
I completely disagree with the pot hunters who'd swap a bit of silver for consistent league performances.
I'm still looking forward to the person who can let us know how we can do better than we are now with no money?
33 Posted 04/05/2011 at 14:04:52
Moyes played his strongest teams in the cup this season. Barring Brentford where Mucha played in goal, he played the strongest possible teams he could in each game
34 Posted 04/05/2011 at 14:02:44
The size of the squad also means that injuries, suspensions and international games and tournaments which cause first team player absences hit it far more than any other team in the league. It's not really Moyes's job to resolve that as he should have financial backing from the board but they are hopeless so it's down to Moyes to save BK's bacon again.
35 Posted 04/05/2011 at 14:23:01
? Saha, who is far and away our best forward player but he is ageing, injury-prone and fragile.
? Beckford, who cannot play up front on his own and urgently needs a strike partner as he had at Leeds.
? Anichebe who is a poor mans Ameobi... 'nuff said !!
There are many teams below us with better strikers... if you need me to list them then I will, but just take the blue-tinted specs off and look closer at what we have... but for Pienaar when Arteta was out and latterly the re-emergence of Osman, we would be in a terrible mess. Our bench is very weak so we have no decent alternatives.
36 Posted 04/05/2011 at 15:16:42
Then look at the prices payed for the players, Bent £24m, Gyan £12m, both bought in by there clubs when Everton spent nothing on a lad from League 1.
I would also say that if he could be kept fit Saha (who again cost nothing) is a better player than any of these so therefore we do have the quality; it's the depth of quality we don't have. But that is the case with every other squad in the league except for about 4-5 clubs.
37 Posted 04/05/2011 at 16:00:31
38 Posted 04/05/2011 at 16:19:26
We have a manger and a chairman who get on well, who show incredible loyalty to one another, and who are indelibly linked. Kenwright has a manager who will keep him out of shit and Moyes has a chairman who pays him a huge salary and will never sack him. In my view, their joint position is rock solid. There is absolutely no way for dissident supporters to go.
This is it: we can moan on this site... some may not renew their season tickets... but nothing will change.
The media and many Evertonians see us as the best of the rest. Something must change and I believe a gamble is necessary. If David Moyes were to go in the summer, of his on volition, and with the blessing of Evertonians, I believe it is our only chance of ending the gradual decline that Kenwright has overseen.
39 Posted 04/05/2011 at 16:59:45
His problem is that he can't make us a great team rather than a good one. We've drawn with Chelsea, and Spurs away. We've beaten Man City away. We were unlucky to lose to Arsenal twice. We've beaten Liverpool at least. West Ham are in crisis; we just have a few problems.
40 Posted 04/05/2011 at 17:27:09
He will get no money to buy better players and the better performing players (are there any?) will want more money, so we will sell again to cover the wage increase. Even smaller squad with less "star" players.
There is only so much crap a person can put up with... then again, his £65k a week does amount to a hell of a lot of crap putting up with.
41 Posted 04/05/2011 at 17:28:19
That in no way means that we're happy with 8th. And 8th place is certainly not the best we can do. We're sitting 7th right now and we've had a pretty poor year in my mind. To me, that means that if we had a good year, we could maybe challenge for 4th (although we'd probably need one or two of the big boys to have bad years).
It's too bad that our finances limit our potential but that's the state of football right now. Moyes isn't the perfect manager but he's pretty darn good for a club in our position. There could be better ones out there but they'd still be under the same constraints.
I'd say changing managers would give us about a 15-20% chance of improving but also probably a 40-50% chance of getting worse. I'm not sure if I'd trust the board to pick the better manager. They'd more than likely pick the worse one.
42 Posted 04/05/2011 at 18:17:55
43 Posted 04/05/2011 at 18:16:33
As a result, we have to rely on an untried Championship free-transfer... and Victor ? who is generally either injured or can't be arsed or both ? to provide the goals. Absolutely criminal. It really beggars belief.
Moyes may not have had tons of money but he has wasted a good percentage of it in my opinion by spending it on people who he won't play or wants to loan out. Even the players we do have ? who are technically quite good ? get outplayed by squads assembled for a fraction of the price.
Watching Wigan last week, I was looking at the players they had who were determined, quick, confident passing the ball to feet. Wigan may be in the lower reaches of the league, but I wonder why the Wigan manager (or the Brentford one for that matter) can get their team to out-play us? We were lucky to scrape a point.
Why does DM constantly have to bark individual instructions in every match to every one of our players? This says to me that the coaching in-between games is deficient. No other manager I've seen appears to need to micro-manage every bloody pass.
In summary, there is no doubt that BK could and should be doing a lot more, but I also think DM has his failings too with his generally poor big-money signings and his inability to produce a balanced team after nearly 10 years.
44 Posted 04/05/2011 at 19:58:53
45 Posted 04/05/2011 at 20:04:37
It is possibly not Moyes's fault that so many players have been out of form this season and so the potential promise that we had evaporated in a very painful and embarrassing early season collapse.
However, it is his fault that we have no Plan B and that is for me the biggest let down this season. We didn't try to move on to a better style but we were not to know that Saha would go so long playing like, well, a bit of a useless plonker.
Crisis? We are not at the end of the road, but most of us can see the cliff that is approaching and are naturally concerned. For me Moyes needs to become a great manager to get us back to where we all want to be and, quite frankly, I can't see him making that step. His obvious flaws are the lack of tactical awareness and lack of belief in giving it a go. We are far better than Blackpool, man for man, and should really try to play in the same manner, using our superior ability to go for the jugular. If it's not working, then Plan B is the fallback but not the norm.
46 Posted 04/05/2011 at 20:45:09
Yes, it's nice DM cares, but I'd rather have someone with the ability to coach the players so that they instinctively know what to do and are able to string two passes together! Either that or someone with the willingness to employ a suitable coach.
He should be a positive individual able to give confidence to the players. When you see DM in an interview does he inspire you? Give you confidence? Does the team play like a team with confidence, even when we're winning?
I can probably count on one hand the number of times I've gone into the last 10 minutes of a game able to relax and enjoy. The players consistently seem to lack belief in themselves and their ability to beat the opposition.
47 Posted 04/05/2011 at 22:24:11
Point 1: We're skint
Point 2: The manager is to blame for not winning trophies
Point 3: I couldn't go any further for the sheer idiocy of linking point 1 to point 2.
48 Posted 04/05/2011 at 22:44:12
Our striker who cost money (a lot) is on loan at Leicester to get him off the wage bill!! At least it keeps him away from inevitable abuse... I reckon he is where he belongs!!
Our best striker is fragile and can only play half a season at most. The rest of what we have are not up to scratch and hardly ever complete a full game.
Its not just the few strikers mentioned above that our better than our lot...Teams like Bolton, Villa, Fulham, WBA et cetera all have better strikers and wingers better than we have... But that's my opinion!!!
49 Posted 04/05/2011 at 22:34:18
Just because he's finished in the top half of the league with a limited budget, doesn't mean he'd be a league winner with a bit of cash. Is it not possible that working within a limited budget is his actual talent? That taking a club from the bottom half to the top half is his speciality?
I've seen far too many mistakes made over and over again to be comfortable with him having any money. He'd probably spend it all on utility players and then buy Parker to play on the wing. And Neville would still be getting a game.
As for our financial position. Anybody got a cannon to shoot Kenwright out of?
Your article is spot on in it's fundamental theme. We are indeed a club in crisis. We have a board full of self serving charlatans, and a manager who doesn't learn from his own mistakes, no matter how many times he makes them.
Anyone who thinks a top half finish somehow contradicts this conclusion needs their head examined.
50 Posted 04/05/2011 at 23:09:27
It's the usual negative Moyes is crap stuff so why don't these people suggest who they would like as manager....
51 Posted 04/05/2011 at 23:29:37
The whole game is about opinions, and you have stated yours here (on a number of occasions, and forcibly), all I would like is you to explain them?
52 Posted 04/05/2011 at 23:38:27
The teams below us often have worse defences so even if they have scored they've not been able to win the game or achieve the amount of draws Everton have. Don't forget, if it wasn't for Cahill at the start of the season, we would have been well and truly fucked on the goals side of things. Saha hadn't scored for a year before he got going this season.
53 Posted 04/05/2011 at 23:46:59
The thing is, I'm just bored of him now.
I don't know if a new manager could do better given the constraints. But I'm sure someone could bring a bit of excitement back to Goodison Park.
I watch football to be enthralled, to be entertained. I watch Everton because I love the club. I long for those days when we can collectively say we're proud to be Blues... but how many of those days has Moyes given us?
He brings us admirable qualities off the pitch. He has brought us reasonable results on the pitch. But how many times has a performance by a Moyes team really made you proud?
Contrast that with the number of times a Moyes team has really made you bored.
Time for a change.
54 Posted 05/05/2011 at 00:27:44
I didn't even bother to read the whole article. You're dillusional. Every single point you've made here is absolute toilet. I literally cannot express how ridiculous, to the point of being laughable, this article is, as are the comments agreeing with it,
I rest assured knowing you're the minority. I know this from personal experience on several occasions where idiots like yourself start chanting 'Moyes out' or 'Sack the Board' and are quickly hushed with support of the them and the team. You like to think you're not but you are, the pathetic minority who revels in pessimism.
55 Posted 05/05/2011 at 00:33:51
56 Posted 05/05/2011 at 01:22:25
57 Posted 05/05/2011 at 03:56:50
58 Posted 05/05/2011 at 06:34:24
And who will buy ?
That is the problem.
Some people on this site remind me of a petulant little boy called Jimmy who stamps his feet and cries and bawls because Mummy can't afford to buy the latest Nike trainers for them.
Sadly in her old clothes, she can't attract a rich new sugar Daddy. But little Jimmy is so obsessed by this years trainers he begs Mummy to go out for that meal with the local Provy agent. He always has money.
Few days later little Jimmy gets this year's trainers and Mummy gets fucked ........literally and financially.
Next year the trainers are worn, the Provy agent has moved on and Mummy owes them more than she borrowed and has sold the TV
And little Jimmy ?
He hates his Mummy even more now because she won't shag the loan shark next door.
And the moral of this little fable ?
What a knob head.
59 Posted 05/05/2011 at 10:00:40
That's not to say we shouldn't criticise Moyes, and you may be right about his current position/status as a manager of a shoe-string being what he's best at. In fact, I'm inclined to agree because our best performances always seem to come when we're up against a wall.
60 Posted 05/05/2011 at 10:17:10
61 Posted 05/05/2011 at 12:07:17
62 Posted 05/05/2011 at 12:16:08
Of course money is a problem, hence why we and other clubs can't compete at the top. Moyes's record is better than any of the challenging clubs, and consistently so. This is a fact which most seem able to ignore. BK may be a problem, but to direct blame at Moyes's perceived lack of success is just idiocy.
No-one else has done better with similar resources, and indeed in many cases have achieved considerably less with considerably more, despite his mistakes. So could someone please point out the 'role model' club we are aiming to surpass. I'm afraid It doesn't exist.
We all wish/hope/pray/desire more but the context for this and the impossible environment Everton and others operate in means trophies are a near impossibility. It requires rich teams playing their second strong (hence we have an occasional non 'Sky Four' winner of the League cup), or a huge wedge of luck (eg, Birmingham this year).
Money is the root of our problem, not Moyes.
63 Posted 05/05/2011 at 12:35:23
If David Moyes was to leave then the club would sink like a stone. The club has no cash and yet season after season David Moyes gets on with the job.
Most big-time managers would have walked out years ago but David Moyes continues to work with limited funds and a small squad but not only that he has also produced a squad that works for each other, battles and gets on with the task. Most teams in the Premier League don't envy the task of a game against Everton.
As for the Man Utd game, I was at that match and Everton battled hard. That's what we have ? a team full of battlers, TEAM PLAYERS. Unfortunately or fortunately (which ever way you want to look at it) we don't have any 'individuals' who can maybe unlock a defence of Man Utd's calibre. That costs money and right now Everton don't have funds so we have to GET ON WITH IT.
David Moyes is one of the best managers in the Premier League and I am extremely proud to have him as our manager. I just hope he doesn't read such tripe!!
So rather than write an article full of tosh ? face facts and unleash your frustrations on getting behind the club and our manager.
64 Posted 05/05/2011 at 12:57:51
The problem with Kenwright is that he remains on the periphery of his wealthy circle of friends ?the likes of Philip Green, Amanda Stavely, Michael Winner et al ? and, given the fact that we are potless, there is unlikely to be any major investment in Everton in the foreseable future.
The interesting fact is that Amanda Stavely brokered the deal for the sale of Manchester City to the arabs, I presume the enabling factor for this was based upon the collateral within Eastlands which City continue to lease / buy from the City of Manchester Council.
65 Posted 05/05/2011 at 14:27:30
It was just an alternative to moaning about moaning early this morning. Didn't really expect it to stand up to serious scrutiny but glad you felt able to join in with the analogy.
66 Posted 05/05/2011 at 14:54:06
Davies, Sturridge, Elmander, Kenwyn Jones, Ricardo Fuller, Odemwingie, Darren Bent, Gyan, D J Cambell, Charlie Adam, Rodallega and N'Zogbia, Cole, Piqueone and Obinna...
I would definitely add Zamora if he had been fit all season and Doyle who has been injured at Wolves.
If anyone can tell me that Beckford and Anichebe are better than any of the above, then I give up!!!
67 Posted 05/05/2011 at 17:06:57
Maybe that might not happen. Perhaps a new coach would come in and,say, decide that our pre-season has been unproductive in past years and may well try something different.
He may well decide that the team lacks steel. Perhaps he may feel that Yakubu is better than Anichebe.
Someone made the very pertinent point on another thread that maybe making a club safe and operating on a small budget is what David Moyes does best. The club is going nowhere right now. Maybe we should not be careful what we wish for.
68 Posted 05/05/2011 at 17:32:17
If you look at who is above us in the Premier League, all those teams have bigger revenues than us... meaning they can buy better players. It can't be coincidence that this is why they are above us.
How can you expect David Moyes (or any other manager for that matter) to get any higher than what we consistently do now?
Who did we sign in the summer? A FREE TRANSFER FROM A 3RD DIVISION TEAM and a young under-21-year-old forward?
The club is going nowhere because we have NO MONEY. Our ground is not big enough, we don't have a rich owner.
Why is that so fucking hard for you to understand?
69 Posted 05/05/2011 at 17:42:17
The evidence is there for anyone with half a brain to see.
Why is it so difficult for people to understand this?
70 Posted 05/05/2011 at 18:03:38
If we accept that (a) it's all about money and (b) we have no money, then what is there to look forward to? Ever?
71 Posted 05/05/2011 at 19:17:51
I had juast got down to post 67 when the old "Davey Moyes for Man United" debate reared up again on "Talk Shite"
A United fanatic with a strong Belfast accent was making a very powerful case for Moyes to get the Job.
He called himself Joe but I'm not convinced...
Andy Crooks come clean... it was you wasn't it?
72 Posted 05/05/2011 at 19:42:24
73 Posted 05/05/2011 at 20:29:14
We had Barton, Baines and Jagielka on the books and let them all go to be developed elsewhere... we then paid very good money for two of the players to return.
It seems to me that our scouting and coaching systems are pretty poor when you consider the 'finds' made by all the lesser clubs, eg, Wigan, Blackburn and even Blackpool. Wigan have made a lot of money out of finding then selling foreign players.
Maybe I am being over critical but I really don't see that many succesful acquisitions when biggish money is spent... I think that DM has got together a very workmanlike set of defenders but he has really struggled to bring in decent forwards. We have certainly not improved our striking options since getting rid of Johnson and Beattie and we still don't have a 'real' wide forward eg; Etherington, Downing, Duff etc etc... also all playing for lower clubs.
I just think that if our scouts were any good we should have acquired a wide player of decent level and a good striking partnership. Luckily our defence is as good as any!
74 Posted 05/05/2011 at 20:17:39
And somehow we 'have let' 7 points escape us in this run up from catching the Shite, with some pitiful displays.
I was not drawing the fact that (a) we have no money so that (b) it's Moyes's fault.
I pretty much stated what is Moyes's fault. He picks the squads; he has been dealt with. And someone put it pretty well when they said, they wouldn't trust him with money with the money he has wasted this season alone and the money he should have made to bring in reinforcements particularly strikers.
And let's not forget what he said in the rag, when he admitted he made a huge mistake in not bringing in a striker. He could have done some selling in the summer to generate some needed cash. Quite how in the hell he chose to cling on to Saha when he was offered a hell of a lot of money for him, defies any sort of sense... I could go on with who should have gone in the last summer but I won't because you know who should have.
That right there is negligent; to allow a team you knew needed a striker, and that you could have probably done something about that, by selling deadwood in the pre-season.
He makes so many mistakes it's almost comical for the fact it effects our league placings. Best man for the job? He falls out with a player then brings someone on, that clearly isn't a goal scorer??? Sorry but Moyes needs to get over himself for the better of the team.
It's well known that Moyes is too fiery for his own good... he falls out with players and keeps them on the sidelines when we actually need them on the pitch, just so he can assert his authority. His attitude is: "Fuck the team, you ain't playing, sunshine." Which is detrimental to the team he is supposed to managing and trying to help achieve results. Micromanagement of players in my opinion should be left to someone else if this is the same attitude he displays with everyone in the first team who happens to disagree with him.
Tactically, the man is baffling... we'd win more games if he would only watch back matches we'd played and learn from them. Again, that as nothing to do with money; it's his ability to coach / train and turn out results with what he has available... which I firmly believe he is incapable off.
Funny how, with a full squad at his disposal, he is completely cluless on what to do and who to name and where to put them... but, once the team ends up with bare bones and 9 first team players are injured, we are suddenly turning in results ? to me, that says enough is enough.
We should strive for better and not sit on our proud laurels thinking, "This is all we got and if we change we'd go down." 13 points separates us from relegation right now. In a league where picking up points this season should have been a formality, it's the Manager's job to motivate his players; if they aren't motivated at the start of the season... sorry, but that does fall on the manager's job and the coaching team to a lesser extent.
He is stale. This current team is stale with aging players.
75 Posted 05/05/2011 at 21:47:53
76 Posted 05/05/2011 at 22:13:22
77 Posted 05/05/2011 at 23:06:16
78 Posted 06/05/2011 at 03:10:28
79 Posted 06/05/2011 at 07:28:43
80 Posted 06/05/2011 at 08:42:10
What Moyes has achieved is diminishing concern about not failing in that first aim and suffering relegation. Under the financial restraints Everton have suffered during Moyes' tenure, a top half finish has become a norm and the team have often, and deservedly, won the title of 'best of the rest'. An FA Cup final and a couple of trips into Europe have been added bonuses.
To suggest, however, that we are capable of doing any better than we have under Moyes appears to be slightly naive. Look at the other teams in the 'second tier' of the Premier League who suffer similar constraints to Everton and consider whether a different manager would have been more successful?
Although we've watched a lot of dour football and suffered acute frustration, we should bear in mind that we're not a top four team -- not even close. At best we're making up the numbers; at worst we could be battling relegation. The fact that we consistently finish in the upper regions of the Premier League is testament to the manager's ability of the manager to maximise the potential of what he has. I sincerely doubt whether another manager would have done as well.
The brutal fact is that the Premier League has permanently changed so that unless you were successful in the 90s or have the benefit of a benevolent billionaire, you're never going to win the league. Indeed, looking at Everton's accounts and Companies House records, it would appear that Everton, in fact, have very little money for operations, no matter forking out for new players. Hell, the money yet to be received from the Premier League is already charged directly to Barclay's bloody Bank.
Frankly, it's a dire situation. Changing the manager isn't realistically going to change anything on or off the pitch. Effectively Kenwright needs to find someone who is happy to take on the debt; happy to take on the risk of funding a new stadium or upgrading Goodison, and happy to fund player purchases. Chances of that happening? Small. Very small.
Enjoy the 7th place finish -- I've a feeling it's only going to get worse.
81 Posted 06/05/2011 at 09:09:14
It's not illogical in the slightest..
Fact number 1: we are skint.
Fact number 2: Moyes repeatedly makes the same mistakes over and over again with the players he has.
There is no logical deficit in those two statements.
82 Posted 06/05/2011 at 08:58:05
83 Posted 06/05/2011 at 09:24:56
84 Posted 06/05/2011 at 10:45:25
We get compensation.
And the Mancs wouldn't start their season until January.
85 Posted 06/05/2011 at 12:44:04
Wouldn't exactly call it second string?
86 Posted 06/05/2011 at 12:48:12
Everton are an above average side in the PL which is well organised defensively. As others have pointed out we are a consistent upper half of the table team. For those like myself who grew up in the 1990s when the summits of Everton's hopes was to reach the 40-point mark and safety, this does count for something and it is David Moyes's biggest achievement in charge.
However, in the last two years, the progression of the club under Moyes has truly stagnated. This is partly due to funds. But it is also due to the overly negative and cautious tactics which have led to a shortage of goals and a paucity of ambition in games such as the recent match at Old Trafford where the height of Moyes's ambitions is a 0-0 draw.
Personally I think there is a case for replacing Moyes with a manager more prepared to attack and throw caution to the wind. We may lose some of the games in which we currently grind out a 0-0. However we would be more likely to win games against inferior opposition (which all too often has not happened this season).
87 Posted 06/05/2011 at 21:06:59
Like a few I actually thought for a while we where going down this season, such was the shite we where churning out almost weekly.
It took until after Christmas for these lads to wake up and get the points... which reminds me of the very same thing last season.
What's going to happen next season? The last two seasons, it's taken them longer to get out of the mindset they are in and knab the points... this is why I truly worry for the start of next season.
We can't go on like this, the disaster for me is already in the making... the last two seasons have shown we are starting the season later and later in the season... this needs to stop obviously, but it won't under the current manager.
88 Posted 07/05/2011 at 10:31:06
My concern is the constant trotting out of same old same old faces being played wherever there is a vacancy in the side, whether its in the same position or not. If we don't shake the squad up in the close season then I think we will have problems!!
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