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Season 2011-12

Where from here?

By Paul Traill   ::  15/04/2012
 44 Comments (Last)
Awakening at an ungodly hour, Ste, our driver for the day, picked me up at around 5am before grabbing the other guys. Simon with a cooler bag full of snacks and drinks which could have fed the 5000.

We were down the M6 and well on our way in very good time. We made a quick toilet break somewhere along the M6 and what a scene that was. I don?t think I?ve ever seen a Service Station so busy, packed full of Everton and Liverpool fans alike. I had to bite my tongue when a few Liverpool fans sang ?Tell yer ?ma, yer ?ma, to wipe away all the tears, no trophies for 17 years?.?. Hard to take but what is the necessity to antagonize? Anyway, anyway? following a long wait for the toilet, with men even giving up and using the Ladies toilets instead, we were back on our way and I was very surprised at how quickly we arrived in London.

On our two trips down to Wembley in 2009, we parked at Stanmore both times but did well to avoid any skirmishes with some threatening Manchester United supporters following our penalty shoot-out win in the Semi-Final. With the prospect of Everton and Liverpool fans mixing from the same station after the match, we tried an alternative tack this time as a friend of mine had kindly arranged some free parking for us at her workplace in Kilburn.

Gary was DESPERATE for the toilet and seeing him trying to walk until he found one, or at least a makeshift one, was hilarious. He looked like he was walking on the moon.

We were soon on our way, onto the tube and arriving at Wembley Park Station. Once through the station, the first thing you glimpse is Wembley, looking terrific with the Everton crest on the huge banner. Though it was now only around 9:30am we were well and truly in the groove. Everton and Liverpool fans everywhere and not a sniff of trouble in sight.

So on to a pub then... Back before the semi-final in 2009 we ended up in some Sports Bar but this was closed and so, on Police advice, we worked our way down the road, stumbling across two pubs together. One a Weatherspoons, the other more old-fashioned-pub like, The Bear, and so we opted for the latter.

It proved to be a poor choice. The bar, as one would expect, was extremely busy and the bar service woefully slow... so we gave up before even getting served and marched on down the road. We found nothing and just as we were about to give up and head back to The Bear, Sue spotted a pub in the distance and we hit the jackpot. A lovely little Irish pub, Flanbery?s Bar, was just perfect. Not too busy, Blues and Reds mixing amicably?not even doormen in place, we were able to sit and relax for a good hour, learning the team news before we headed back to Wembley.

Gueye given the nod on the left in the only contentious selection. Drenthe, ridiculously, not even on the bench. Liverpool starting with Carroll and Suarez up top, average players in the shape of Spearing, Downing and Henderson in midfield, an unfamiliar back four of Agger, Skrtel, Carragher and Johnson and their choice keeper Brad Jones in goal. Surely Everton had to seize the initiative with this one. Surely this was our time?

We walked on back to Wembley, after a little confusion finding our entry block and through the turnstyles. Our seats absolutely fantastic, directly behind the goal in the lower tier at a good height. A wonderful view of the game ? we didn?t even get to sit down all game. The stadium is a wonderful experience. It was an exceptional sight of one half blue the other all red with both crowds making a lot of noise. Howard Webb led the teams out. A minute?s silence in respect of the Hillsborough victims impeccably observed all round. We were ready to go!

Liverpool started by far the better side in the opening 10 minutes or so and would have been ahead had Spearing not of woefully skied a presentable chance from the edge of the penalty area. Tim Howard looked very overawed in the opening minutes but thankfully settled eventually, as too did Everton? Leighton Baines coming ever so close with a free kick which landed on the roof of the net.

We exploded with joy on 23 minutes when dreadful Liverpool defending presented a great chance for Nikica Jelavic. Carragher and Skirtel making a pigs ear of clearing a ball and only smashing it against Cahill. The ball popping to the alert Croat who stroked home calmly to put us ahead. Everton in raptures. Liverpool silenced.

Generally speaking, Everton held possession quite well for the remainder of the half though didn?t test Liverpool when perhaps we should have gone for it more. I expected to see us on the front foot from the start ? balls into the box from all angles to test their third-choice goalkeeper and shots from distance from Osman, Fellaini and Gibson. As it turned out, Jones appeared quite a confident keeper but we didn?t do enough to get in amongst him. Had we have done so, we may have seen a different outcome...

Regardless, we were happy enough at the break. Liverpool had a few openings but nothing which significantly stretched Tim Howard. It was all smiles at the break though Gary was keen to stress the nightmare of 1986 when we lead 1-0 at half-time thanks to a Gary Lineker strike though found ourselves 1-3 down at the end of the game. Could we hold on or extend the lead?

Disappointingly not. Up until Liverpool?s equalizer, I don?t think there was really much between either teams. Jelavic made the best of the precious little he had to work with but the midfield didn?t do enough to get up the field and support him. Such is Moyes's cautious approach, we appeared more keen on holding on to what we had when a second goal would have settled it. Again ? I?d like to have seen us test their keeper more, put more balls into the box, put them under more pressure but we just didn?t do enough of that. Nowhere near in fact.

Nevertheless, this was working. Carroll headed a decent chance wide early in the first half but other than that I remember little of which threatened our goal. I wouldn?t exactly say we were looking comfortable, but I thought we looked able until disaster struck.

Of all dependable players, Sylvin Distin played a dreadfully under-hit back pass to Howard. It fell WELL short and Suarez was onto it in a flash. Heitinga did what he could to make up the ground. Howard did all he could to narrow the angle but the Uruguayan cheat finished well to draw Liverpool level, provide MASSIVE impetus and momentum to Liverpool, and really give their support a shot in the arm who then encouraged and cheered them on noisily. Everton supporters were by then rather flat and though all in good will, it was difficult to match them for encouragement at this stage. They just had all the momentum.

Moyes tried to change it. Gueye had played poorly and was switched with Coleman, Osman moving out to the left and Coleman provided greater protection for Neville but we just couldn?t get going again significantly. I recall Osman shooting tamely at Jones and someone shooting which he fumbled but gathered the rebound but again, we just didn?t test their keeper near enough.

At the other end, Liverpool were really starting to pick us off and in truth it was amazing they didn?t score sooner as they missed some very decent chances. It was like watching a nightmare unfold before your eyes with nothing you could do about it. It was like Chelsea in the FA Cup Final all over again. Baines tried to make a tackle and stayed down injured for a period. He couldn?t continue and Hibbert was being readied to replace him.

Coleman gave away an incredibly stupid free kick down by the corner flag, clattering into Gerrard (though you would be temped to do it yourself eh!) and giving Liverpool a free kick and a great opportunity to put the ball in the box. The ball in was excellent from Bellamy though the marking was slack. How can you leave Andy Carroll unmarked from six yards? The giant Geordie had played a rancid game up until then. I thought he was extremely poor, but that mattered not I suppose as he rose and headed backwards unchallenged into the net. Liverpool fans erupted. Our players trudged back dejectedly and a look at the clock explained why? just four minutes left to play. Everton crushed, Liverpool support now even louder. Hibbert was told to sit back down with Anichebe on instead. Everton had to go for it now.

We just couldn?t get going again for one last push. We just couldn?t get hold of the ball really. I sympathized with Cahill as he lost his rag towards the end of the game. Is he going to get another chance to win something with Everton? Thankfully at least Fellaini had kept his head and managed to trap the ball, fend off a few players and get the ball out wide for Everton to have one last launch into the box. Neville got the cross in, Anichebe got on the end of it and thrashed the ball back across the box but Skirtel hoofed it clear. Webb, who?d given us every chance with four minutes of stoppage time, blew for full time and we trudged off utterly dejected.

As Sue said on the way home ?What do we do to deserve this heartache all the time??

We were out of Wembley reasonably quickly and there were thankfully no problems between the two sets of supporters as we made our way to the tube station. Some Liverpool fan tried to have a pleasant conversation about the game with Ste and me but we just couldn?t face speaking to him and just replied with rude one word answers to him. I regret that now. He was only being friendly. It?s what it can do to you sometimes.

We got to the car, snacked, all re-grouped as we?d gotten a bit separated after the match, and after a quick Grand National bet (it didn?t come in) made tracks in quite somber mood. Well the others were, I could only numb my pain with larger all the way back and was probably quite the nuisance to Ste the driver. As we got roughly half way home we?d all perked up again as defeat began to sink in. The unfortounate life of the Evertonian.

So where from here? I?ve now finally realized we?re not going to win anything with David Moyes at the helm of our club. I?ve always been a massive Moyes fan. I still am really. I think overall he?s done a splendid job for us and I do think Kenwright is sincere when he bigs up Moyes?s incredible work ethic and planning. If you read Mick Rathbone's or David Weir?s autobiography they will all but confirm this also. I think he tries his very best. However, I question his forever cautious approach and this is what has cost us again this time around. Unless we change manager, I can?t see how on earth we?ll ever win anything.

Nevertheless, I don?t have the solution. If Moyes was to leave Everton (and he would have to leave himself because he won?t get pushed out), I worry what would happen to us. I imagine our better players would want to leave. Who would run the club the way Moyes can? Who else can keep us regularly finishing 6th, 7th, 8th in the league practically without exception with nothing to spend? Who is this man and why would he want to come and manage Everton? I don?t see who else is out there who can do this job who would want to come and manage at Everton.

That?s the dilemma. We won?t win anything with Moyes but we won?t survive without him. We?re stuck in something of a rut unfortunately with no real way out except for squad investment?over to you, Mr Chairman.

?There?s always next season? we seem to tell ourselves every year. Next season is potentially a big one for Everton if we can keep hold of everyone and add a few more. If we can tie Pienaar up that will of course help us and with a bit of housekeeping here and there I do believe our team, coupled with some of the youth coming through could have another crack at challenging. If only we?d for once just get off to a good start the dream could be reality.

This is Everton. Side by side we wait, hope and (try to) believe.

Player Ratings:

Howard: I don?t think he looked very assured at all, particularly in the opening exchanges. 5

Baines: Not at his effective self at all but wasn?t helped by Gueye at all. He pulled up injured towards the end, I wonder if he was carrying the injury for a while in this game as he just didn?t get going. 5

Distin: Well?he?ll be forever remembered for his mistake in this one and, as we all would, really struggled to adapt following the error. I didn?t see him walking around the pitch apologetically after the game but did see his ?tweet?. It?s very man of him to face up to his mistake. I feel very sorry for him as he?s been fantastic for Everton since signing in 2009. 5

Heitinga: Not his commanding self unfortunately. 6

Neville: My Man of the Match. Not a lot got passed him and he was consistent and solid throughout. Exactly what you expect from Neville really. A real shame that he?ll in all probability now fail to win anything in his time at Everton. 7

Gibson: He put the work in but didn?t get on the ball like I thought he would or use it effectively. 5

Fellaini: Generally very good. Kept his head near the end when others around him failed to do so. I felt sorry for him when he collapsed onto the floor dejectedly at full time. Certainly the pick of our midfielders. 7

Gueye: Really struggled and didn?t track back nearly enough. Probably should have been subbed sooner. Fair to say I?m not convinced by him at all. 3

Osman: A bit in-and-out of the game. Would seemingly disappear for chunks but you would then see him chase back to make tackles and use the ball quite intelligently. I would like to have seen him in and around their box more, particularly following his splendid goal on Easter Monday. 6

Cahill: Had a decent first half but faded badly in the second. Played a lot of the second half further back in midfield when Fellaini was pushed further forward but didn?t do enough in my opinion. I feel for him though. As with Neville ? will he get another chance to win something at Everton? 5

Jelavic: Was always lively and always a threat but didn?t get adequate support from midfield. I look forward to seeing his handiwork next season. I think he?d really benefit from a settled strike partner. 7

Coleman (for Gueye): Will be sick about the free kick he gave away but it was Everton?s inability to defend it rather than the original foul which did it so I don?t blame him myself. I think we?d all like to clatter Gerrard given the chance. Otherwise, he did OK though nothing special. 5

Anichebe (for Baines): Came into the game in impossible circumstances really and with no real time to make an impact on the game. Perhaps cold have done better with our final chance to get something from the game. 5

Reader Comments

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Mohammed Horoub
723   Posted 15/04/2012 at 12:13:17

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Disappointment, Anger, Despair, Frustration. Feelings most felt yesterday afternoon after the biggest 'choke' I have witnessed as a fan of EFC.

I don't care what anyone says we were favourites and we threw it away. How we threw it away has been debated in detail on TW and I am still convinced that it was tactics and not mistakes that cost us. We have to ask ourselves what causes a veteran defender like Distin choose to try a backpass from midfield? It's called a gameplan that puts that thought in his head.

What I want to talk about is the future. We have a good core of players. Moyes has an excellent eye for talent but yesterday proved he doesn't have the 'big game' mental and tactical strength. They don't get bigger than yesterday's derby and he mailed it in. I would like to see Moyes promoted to Director of Football. He should be in charge of scouting and recruiting players ONLY.

We need a fresh face and new ideas on the sidelines. A new pre-season program that helps us start in August not January.

Like many I appreciate what Moyes has done but yesterday was the 'Glass Ceiling' he will never break through.

This squad of players have the potential to achieve; we're only a few players away. And it doesn't need much investment. Just like we exchanged Bily for Jelavic, the potential is there to strengthen areas without affecting the core of the team.

I know it's wishful thinking that Moyes is the type of person to step aside and let someone else manage the team that he built. We have all been waiting for Moyes 2.0 to show up and yesterday, after Distin's mistake, was his chance to prove he was a winner. He failed miserably. He froze when other great managers would have reacted. The players merely reflected the lack of confidence that Moyes has.

He will better serve this club poaching gems from Europe and the lower leagues. But I beg him to let someone else try to manage this team.

I had taken the pre-caution to not be traveling on May 5th just in case. That optimism is still there and I know that Everton are not far away from getting back into Europe and winning a trophy.

Mr Moyes you have had your chance and it's time for a change.

Alex Willett
737   Posted 15/04/2012 at 12:17:11

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Could'nt agree more.
Alan Rycroft
745   Posted 15/04/2012 at 12:47:53

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Dear All,
I don't thin we could win the fa cup if it came and bit in the ass! We haven't won a thing for how many years? We have blips and good moments and then crash and squander. Liverpool were there for the taking we never had a better chance and ever gave them the game on a silver platter. I could cry but have better thaings to worry about than a football team that always always kicks me in the gut but I can;t stop lovin - a childhood habit.
Footie anyway is not what it used to be a team like Liverpool are stomach churners very unpleasant bunch and no character! It hurts to see them win there is no justice in this game only money talks and matters!
Damian Brathwaite
749   Posted 15/04/2012 at 12:24:16

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A good post Paul, you have summed up the complete apathy that is surrounding our club and the fans with this current regime.

I am 38 now and I have been lucky to witness the great side of the eighties and unlucky to witness everything that has come since, apart from the 95 cup final. My point is this: after speaking to a few red friends after the game, they pointed out to me that they absolutely love David Moyes being in charge of us. They said we hope he stays or another ten years.

This is galling to take because, to be fair to Moyes, he has generally not done a bad job but I think this latest defeat to the shite has damaged his reputation and standing as a manager who is going to take us forward.

It is a disgrace that the club has not won anything in Moyes's reign but also the seven years before that under Smith. We cannot afford to let this carry on; a change is needed quickly before we fall behind the likes of Stoke, Newcastle and Sunderland.

Our once proud club again is an embarrassment but how do we force change? Our manager has proved that on the big stage he has not got what it takes to out-think, out-play and especially out-fight the opposition.

I believe Scottish football is were Davey should now ply his trade because he will forever be a bottler and a negative tactician for Everton who sadly deserve better than this shite year after year.
Gareth Fieldstead
750   Posted 15/04/2012 at 12:24:36

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Great article and comment from Mohammed. I have said for some time that Moyes missed his chance of silverware back in 09, I think the hope with a lot of supporters as the return of the injured trio Yak, Arteta and Jags and Moyes reinvesting the funds from the Lescott sale wisely would take us to a cup, sadly it wasn't to be.

Now I have no idea what the future holds for our club. Moyes won't resign nor will he be pushed, nobody wants to buy the club therefore we are stuck with what we have. Spurs wouldn't want a boring, negative serial bottler like our manager therefore were else would he go?

We don't have anybody else to sell to raise the funds necessary to reinvest elsewhere, particularly another winger and centre forward, so once again hopeful of a top ten spot and a cup run.
Norman Merrill
752   Posted 15/04/2012 at 12:55:17

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At the derby match at Analfield, the Kop sang "Another 10years". Now that's frightening.
But 24/7 won't act after another defeat, against the old enemy, He is too busy attending a funeral in "Corrie" after attending another yesterday at Wembley.
Peter O'Connor
755   Posted 15/04/2012 at 12:55:53

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Spot on, all comments.

Moyes is a loser. He couldn't win if he was the only entrant in a raffle because he would put the ticket somewhere so safe he would forget where it was. Pretty much like our current team - good players but he has forgotten how to use them to the team's best advantage.

Moyes the nearly man has done a really good job with EFC but I do doubt whether he could do better if he had more money to spand because he is far too cautious and yesterday's after match comments support the fact that at half-time he was too worried about what they would do to us instead of the other way around.

The policy of no backchat to the ref backfired big time yesterday with RatFace being allowed to referee the game in the first half without reply from any EFC player.

Sorry David but I agree with Mohammed #723, time to move upstairs and bring in a positive thinker to manage the team.

Down but not out.

Adrian Williams
759   Posted 15/04/2012 at 12:54:02

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As 54-year-old blue who has seen at least some good times, I think now is the time to change manager. DM has had his chances and, to be fair, he should now take some flack. He chokes and his teams choke on the big occasion.

It's an unsavoury truth but to compete now we need a sugar daddy owner who demands success. No-one at the club demands anything at the moment; it's all too cosy.

Ten years work and nothing to show. The media must stop saying how great DM is and start using some facts that we all know. Some thing has to change, please let it be now.
Peter O'Connor
762   Posted 15/04/2012 at 13:07:55

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Something else that annoys me is the over-acheiving tag we have. How can we be over achievers when we've won nothing and every time there is a big game we blow it?

If beating Sunderland, West Brom, Swansea and other games like that is sufficient to label us as over-achievers then it shows how far we have fallen.
Mat Fearon
769   Posted 15/04/2012 at 13:14:51

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Paul, that is the best post I have read so far on the game. A really good overview of the game and the key challenges/issues that we now face. The question about Moyes is spot on. We are all frustrated but what are the other options? Who could actually do a better job with no cash to spend? To say he has to go because we could not beat a team built on 100m seems harsh. Perhaps we have overachieved reaching the semi final and we need to be realistic about what we are likely to achieve. Winning a cup with no investment is going to be very very difficult. However, I just don't understand why the players seemed to lack self belief yesterday and did not seem up for it. (In fact I am not even convinced the fans really thought we could win. I thought the atmosphere seems pretty flat). Very few
actually performed well. Why could Moyes not install that self belief?
David Hallwood
770   Posted 15/04/2012 at 13:19:19

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I'm neither pro or anti Moyes, but I calls 'em as I sees 'em, and it must be admitted that Moyes got it all wrong yesterday. 1-0 up with only the 2nd half to play, why didn't he test the rookie goalie.

Most of the time I howl with frustration when I see a player on the flanks from 30 yards out hoof a ball into the box, as it is the easiest ball to defend, and I look at it as a cop out ball.

But yesterday was different; a rookie goalie that made their back four have kittens everytime a ball went near the box, instead Jellovic spent most of the half with not a blue shirt within 80 yards of him.

It is Moyes old failings in big games, defend at all costs-he who defends everything-defends nothing.
Geanie Best
784   Posted 15/04/2012 at 13:43:17

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Telling the world that we are underdogs didn't help. We should have come out second half like we were 1-0 down and sought the ball to ram it down there throats. Dreadful negativity when everybody knew they where there for the taking. I don't want Moyes to go, he has done a great job and I am thankful for his 24 hour attitude. BUT it is time for him to take a long hard look in the mirror and resolve that from now on his courage must be greater than his fears, he must ask himself why he didn't demand our boys go out there and finish the job, prove whose best, prove themselves worthy of the shirt, worthy to represent our great club in the traditions that our forefathers held dear.

If he can't, if he does not have courage greater than his fears, then he has taken us as far as he can, and although untried, perhaps Phil Neville could step forward and lead. He has won everything in club football and worked with the best, he knows what winning is and why it happens.

Fortunately today I have no hangover at all, somehow I have escaped that one. But sadly my heart aches and that is far, far worse.
Vincent Siow
809   Posted 15/04/2012 at 15:08:31

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Hi Paul, a really neutral, well-written article from you.

Honestly I've become sick of all the negativity here so I haven't been to this website as of late.

Of course many will question my thoughts being a Everton fan from faraway Singapore but thanks to modern technology I managed to catch the game live on tv.

Many here want Moyes out but who do you have in mind to replace him? Which "positive thinker" is available? Some will name the Swansea manager...well let's see the whether the second season syndrome bites Swansea next season. Would you rather be fighting relegation like Blackburn or finish in the top 10 every season? Look at Moyes' record and every season we finish in the top half of the table with hardly any spending.

Look at Liverpool's spending compared to yesterday's performance. I think we matched them in every department and it was Distin's error that turned the tables around.

Everton is a club known for it's integrity, fighting spirit and pride, compared to the cheats in Red. We should be proud of what we achieved season after season, instead of griping for changes.

Silverware isn't won so easily...even a world class manager like Arsene Wenger hasn't won a trophy in a while.

I know I'm going to get many rebukes for my comments, but who cares. At least I'm being positive, and cheering the side who I have supported for 20 years already from a faraway land.

One day, we will lift a trophy under Moyes.
Vincent Siow
810   Posted 15/04/2012 at 15:15:14

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And with regards to changing of ownership...while I'm not a fan of Kenwright, did anyone realize that no one from Fenway Sports Group turned up?

I mean, do we want an owner without passion and love for the club?
Edward Robinson
813   Posted 15/04/2012 at 15:07:44

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Without Pienarr there is NOTHING through the centre. Second half, yesterday was the long ball (always a 50-50
chance at posession) so ever5ything from the wings which yesterday just weren't firing. ie Apart from our LONELY striker no threat at all. There were anumber of times also yesterday when Gibson was floating around the box with the ball but he NEVER shoots! Why not?
After we got the goal (apparently offside!)) we stood off them apparently frightened of tackling them. When the sh..e got the ball they appeared to have a proper attacking plan.
A very sad day amongst many these last years after the "glory days" when were up competing (wer'e not now!) with them. three times the've beaten us THIS SEASON ALONE! Mind you from a 76year old who remembers those glory days it's very very sad.
I must congratulate Paul on his article which I felt described the match EXACTLY as I saw it (not the way the papers or TV saw it) and also all the very relevant comments made about the article and comments.
Very, very sad but until money comes in nether Moyes or anyone else is going to improve matters.
Sam Hoare
847   Posted 15/04/2012 at 17:09:18

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I still find it hard to believe that everybody is so sure yesterday was Moyes' fault. Why would he tell the players to do anything different to what they did at Sunderland?

It looked to me like it was player nerves not the managers tactics that lost us the day.

Kunal Desai
849   Posted 15/04/2012 at 17:15:59

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Sam - talking of tactics don't you think Moyes would have figured how to beat the shite at the THIRD attempt this season.. He's a fucking born loser and will always remain that way. Don't make excuses.
Nick Waters
851   Posted 15/04/2012 at 17:17:56

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Sam - player nerves?? What are you talking about? Both sets of players were in the same stadium, all of ours are professionals, most of them very experienced and many played at Wembley twice in 2009. Where is the evidence of nerves? Not one of the players has said they were nervous. What is apparent is that there was little concentration on Liverpool's weak points - which IS the manager's job.
Mark Riding
856   Posted 15/04/2012 at 17:23:20

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Sam - its not just tactics as in formations, its reacting to the game as its in play.

I, along with I reckon most Evertonians yesterday, could clearly see that Gueye was having a stinker. I was happy that he started as he has been in form, but he should have been taken off at half time, with Anichebe coming on to give us more of an attacking outlet.

Swopping Fellani & Cahill, clearly didnt work. I dont remember either winning a header to be honest. Cahill should have been taken off on the hour, Fellani back to the deeper role and Dennis on to win a few headers to stop the ball coming straight back.
All my opinion, but hoping for the best dosent win cups..
Sam Hoare
859   Posted 15/04/2012 at 17:30:53

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Mark i agree that the changes/subs were not good-but then retrospect is easy. Not sure Denis would have stemmed the tide.

Nick- you want evidence of nerves? How about distins' highly uncharacteristic back pass?

Ray Said
860   Posted 15/04/2012 at 17:23:44

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Nick 851-you raise a good point about Moyes not concentrating on Liverpool's weak points.
This is a big failing of his over a number of years and especially when tackling LFC, Arsenal, Chelsea and Manchester U. He sets out his teams to try and counter the oppositions strengths rather than setting out a team to attack the oppositions weak points.
His mentality is of the boxer that seeks to 'go the distance' rather than chance his hand and win the fight. This is a recipe for being safe in the pack but never will this attitude win anything. Players with any winning mentality will always leave the club at some point because of this attitude. I expect Fellaini and Heitinga to tire of this soon and want to move on and it will only be a matter of time before Jelavic gets pissed off.
Nick Waters
863   Posted 15/04/2012 at 17:34:56

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Not nerves Sam, just poor decision or technique (take your pick), using your weak foot when the ball was actually on your good foot to begin with.
In any case, what was the manager's response to that setback?
Brian Waring
865   Posted 15/04/2012 at 17:34:41

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Sam, the first half Cahill was up supporting Jelavic, the start of the second half, he dropped deep, therefore Jelavic was isolated up front. Surely Cahill must have had some instruction off Moyes?

Most of the time when the ball went up to Jelavic in the second, there was no one within 40 yds of him, but the first half, there were plenty up in support, why?
Sam Hoare
868   Posted 15/04/2012 at 17:39:14

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Nick- 99 times out 100 distin would have been fine making that pass. Thats what nerves do.

I admit Moyes changes were not great, though its not like we had any superstars on the bench. Bring on Big Vic the saviour!!
Nick Waters
870   Posted 15/04/2012 at 17:34:56

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Not nerves Sam, just poor decision or technique (take your pick), using your weak foot when the ball was actually on your good foot to begin with.
In any case, what was the manager's response to that setback?
Nick Waters
878   Posted 15/04/2012 at 17:59:37

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Sorry - browser problems here. Anyway Sam all errors are as a result of nerves? OK maybe, maybe not - but in Distin's case the back pass just typified Moyes' 'safety first' attitude. I don't know if you were there but the sense of unease in the supporters' minds at the equaliser was palpable. It was obvious that there would be no happy outcome. Everyone knew - we just knew.
Andy Codling
880   Posted 15/04/2012 at 18:02:17

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No matter how shit Liverpool are, we always manage to be a bit shitter. Our manager is a loser and always will be, no doubt we will be told from players how the league is still important even though Davey didn't give a fuck about it when he shit his kecks and let them bury us 3-0 the other week.

I overheard someone saying "I just hope Chelsea or Spurs fuck them in the final" well that just sums us up, always the disappointed envious loser.
Mike Rourke
929   Posted 15/04/2012 at 19:25:49

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A very generous '3' for Gueye there.

From my seat he would be lucky to even get 1. He would have been far more effective if he had curled up into a ball and fell asleep on the halfway line. At least then none of the other players would've wasted their time passing to him.

Fucking useless. Should definitely have been subbed at halftime.

And to think, just the other day I said on here that I wanted him to start ahead of Drenthe - just goes to show the fallacy of 'play it safe' thinking.
Gareth Fieldstead
964   Posted 15/04/2012 at 20:01:20

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Sorry Vincent but you was watching a different game to me. Matched them in all departments? We offered nothing as a goal threat, despite a third rate goalkeeper and the awful Carragher in the centre of defense. Gerrard had his quietest game in a derby for years yet they still looked far more capable going forward. Distin was poor from the minute he was booked, Gueye as noted above was non existent, Cahill has provided zilch since he pissed off to that no mark competition in Asia, just like I stated would happen by the way and the likes of Osman once again talked a great game but offered nothing. All that is down to Moyes. He is safety first and always has been. He has turned our club into the 84 Watford, that we should be grateful just too be there and obviously posts like your own shows he has convinced enough Evertonians that our expectations should be that low. I am not bitter but let's get this right that is safely the worse Liverpool team in twenty years, breaking records for all the wrong reasons and former players queuing up to pointvout all there problems. They went into that game low on confidence and were there for the taking. We got the goal but instead of going for the kill we did what we have always done under Moyes, went all defensive Cahill dropped deeper and deeper desperately hanging on to what we had. Sorry but the excuses of who would replace him is the same boring line that was used to defend Smith, Moyes out.
Brian Waring
966   Posted 15/04/2012 at 20:21:00

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I think in regards to Gueye, the lad earned his place in the starting line - up.

The problem was he should have been brought off a lot earliar.
Les Hay
969   Posted 15/04/2012 at 20:25:19

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The fans turned up, but not the team.

We waited to see if we would be allocated a ticket, when they did we willingly handed over our money.

We bought the shirt, the scarves, the semi-final must-haves.

We worked out how the hell we would get to Wembley for the crazy 12:30 kick-off and paid the £75 for the train, the £30 coach, whatever it took; we got there whichever way we could.

We bought the overpriced crap food.

We paid over the odds for our beer.

We observed, with impeccable behaviour, the minutes silence for the 96 lives lost and the felt for their families.

We shouted until we had no voice.

But the Everton Manager and Team forgot to turn up.
Jon Cox
971   Posted 15/04/2012 at 18:57:06

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Everyone agrees one thing and one thing only and that is the fact that this is probably (for most of us on here) the worst Liverpool side in living memory.

Am I right or wrong?

If i'm right, then since Liverpool have spent circa £100 mill, how can it be about how much money you have to spend.

It can't just be about the money. Have said many a time a football team will show, in the way they play, the psychological fingerprint of the guy in charge. We see it all the time with managers such as SAF et al.

You cant change your personality, a Leopard cannot change it's spots.

On the other hand, a club can change it's manager. At EFC,

That time is now.
Dave Williams
987   Posted 15/04/2012 at 20:48:54

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Moyes clearly has no faith in our ability to defend, hence playing only one striker. This can work if there is penetration and pace in the wide areas but yesterday we had none. Gueye did nothing, Baines was non-existent going forward, and Osman was sporadic and did his work in central positions.

Very ordinary opposition with Gerrard the quietest I can recall against us and they really were there to be taken. I can only assume Moyes lacked the courage to have a go and again relied on elderly players who lacked energy and were second best physically.

Carroll, whilst terrible, was causing problems with his size and strength and Johnny was struggling. Could he not have been replaced by Jags, who is far better equipped to deal with a physical challenge? Denis would have helped Jelavic up front as he was way too isolated in the second half.

At the end of the day, the players selected did not play well enough (I did think Neville had a decent game). Coleman showed again that he is an attacking full back but does not have the ability to beat a man when in midfield at close quarters and teams have realised that if they get tight he doesn't contribute.

Moyes has done okay again this season and to those calling for him to go, just think who could do better with the same money to spend. It is tempting to want change but he keeps us in the top 8 and a final and a semi in four years is not bad.

I have been a fan since 1963 so recall the great days of Alan Ball etc.but times have changed and our only way forward without money is develop our young players whilst staying stable.
Edward Jones
006   Posted 15/04/2012 at 21:28:01

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Having been an Everton supporter for 60-odd years, I have seen many teams created and dismantled.

The thing that disappoints me most with this present team is the way it never displays any kind of killer instinct. It is as though they believe that all decent teams are better than themselves and, having taken the lead, they try to hold on to it at all costs. This has to be a reflection of the manager as it repeats itself season after season.

I do like and respect Davey Moyes; however, this is not enough reason to defend his tactics. Enough has been said about our being a better team than Liverpool at the moment and this is true. A change of manager has to come immediately. Waiting too long will be devastating. The current players we have are well good enough to win a trophy or two but it just won't happen under the present regime.

The constant moaning about shortage of money to spend clearly shows that DM has no answer to our situation. Many of this current squad were bought as bargains and their true value is much higher than the fee we paid for them, eg, Arteta, Jelavic, Baines, Distin, Jagielka, Heitinga, Coleman, Cahill etc. Okay, I know Arteta is now an Arsenal player, nonetheless he was here for many years.

The point I am making is this: if DM had spent £50 million more on these players, would anything have changed with regards to the negativity we see against all so-called top teams? We are a team of nearly all Internationals. It doesn't matter which angle you look from, we are now as good as we will ever be under DM. I believe he knows it, the board knows it... and most of the supporters know it.

Sad though it is, it is time now for a change and I do believe we will see one sooner than later. in the meantime we will keep supporting our team as we always have. The one good thing to come out of all this is that we have all been taught the value of patience.

Enough said. COYB
James Flynn
064   Posted 15/04/2012 at 23:11:15

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Where from here? To Manchester?

7 Everton - 33 4 47

8 Liverpool - 33 4 46

Lots to play for there.

And nothing changed. Fuck LFC. We'll get em next time.
Paul Heron
068   Posted 15/04/2012 at 23:46:57

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My feelings exactly re: Davie Moyes. Still gutted now. I go from anger, to despair, to resignation ? the life of an Evertonian.
Jem Traynor
071   Posted 15/04/2012 at 23:44:56

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Great Comments and posts,
Roberto Martinez, Brendan Rodgers Or Someone who will get invovled and really wants to win something and has the Balls to Do It! This is not good enough for Everton.
Roberto Birquet
105   Posted 16/04/2012 at 05:13:15

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Next season is potentially a big one for Everton if we can keep hold of everyone and add a few more.
No Paul, I'd dump several. Yobo, Coleman (that idiotic lunge confirms he'll not make it as a defender, and he's ok going forward, but not a speciailst winger), Anichebe and one of the CBs: Jags or Heitinga.
£15-16 m gets us a young CB, another striker, Pienaar and at a stretch (financially) Donovan. The last two may only have three years in them, but three years knowing we have options left and right would do me.

But FFS, Moyes got it so wrong just like in the 2009 final. Liverpool were for the taking and we bottled it. Moyes is to blame, and read back my old posts, I'm not an anti-Moyes headbanger, but that was bloody unforgiveable.

We have been playing better than them for months, so why not trust ourselves to go 2-0 up? We'd be looking at revenge for 2009 and Chelsea with bigger things on their mind - a real big chance squandered on fearing an almost toothless, shorn of confidence until we ceded territory, RS nobodies.
David Hallwood
118   Posted 16/04/2012 at 07:54:09

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One Manc U fan to another "Who've we got for the next game?" "Usual 3 points"
Chris Davies
177   Posted 16/04/2012 at 09:31:29

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I've never been one of the 'Moyes Out Brigade' but I think I've just turned.
I've been frustrated by the atrocious style of football for a long time now, but I remember how bad things were just before Moyes' time.
This always left me thinking "would we be Charlton, post Curbishley?" if we got rid.

I then think, Moyes transformed a championship team into a top 8(ish) club. The problem now lies with the fact that we still play 'relegation football' but with some(!) quality footballers in the squad.

If another manager came in (an ex-attacker not defender please!), I think they could get us playing football rather than percentage football and, for the 1st time in 10 years (ok, maybe longer), we might actually have a clue going forward.

You did a wonderful job in stabilizing us, and for that, I thank you.

Time to go Mr Moyes.
Dick Fearon
178   Posted 16/04/2012 at 11:49:55

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Moyes said himslf he thought we would HOLD OUT til extra time and that was the target he aimed for.
While the coward had our team parking the bus Dalglish with his two attacking subs was obviously going for the WIN.
I hate having to say so but there is no denying that he gave dithering Dave the latest in a long list of lessons in positivity.
You ask who would take Moyes place. At three million quid a year there would be a long list of applicants.
At this moment in time I don't really give a damn. All I want is to see the back of the negative defensive whinger and his gloomy faced offsider.
Mark Riding
182   Posted 16/04/2012 at 12:00:16

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Why would Lambert / Rogers want to join Everton right now then ?

Look at the worst case scenario for the start of next season: First game - any big club away.
Jelavic sold in summer for £16m to lets say Arsenal cos RVP has left. - Bill ' well the lad wanted to leave and its a £10m profit in 6 months on the player'
Pienaar back to Spurs.
Johnny had enough and gone to play Champs League. Fee of around £9m.. - Yobo brough back in to replace him.
Saha's season long deal at Spurs expires.. jobs for the boys..
Mcfadden signs 1 year deal...
No money spent - £20m++ in, banks happy, normal service resumed..

I know its my mind gone crazy after watching on Saturday.. but with these clowns running the show nothing would surprise me anymore.
Ray Roche
184   Posted 16/04/2012 at 12:13:38

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I have only fairly recently realised what some have known for years. Moyes has gone as far as his ability has allowed him to. The old thought that he is prevented from realising his potential is the lack of funds. Sure, he's done a remarkable job since he took over a perpetually relegation threatened side with some crap players in it, but I now think that, no matter HOW much money Moyes has, his mindset would not allow him to play an attacking game. I know we have seen glimpses of flair since he arrived but his game plan is invariably negative, with poor substitutions
Jem Traynor
692   Posted 17/04/2012 at 12:26:04

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Mark #182 ? Because we're in a better postion than their current clubs are... In fact, I don't think Rodgers would leave but Martinez is a more realistic target. That said, Moyes won't go. I know as much because he hasn't got the nuts to, we all know that by now!

And he must be shitting his pants with barely audible Hansen banging on about how good he is! Sound, go somewhere else, and think Everton have done well under him "for a mid-table side" and let the possibilities take over... but this being held to ransom crap! Enough is enough...

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