Must be going doolalie or somefing!!.

I know! We could call the round things wheels!! How does that sound.

Wake up man - try and keep up - you're just boring me to death.

Sorry but true.

Because that’s our chairman and his board are doing. Waiting for someone to rescue them by meeting that crazy valuation. Then, battered and bruised, all squared up, they can sail off.

Until then it’s a do nothing policy. Nothing that can grow the club.

Everton have a level of incompetence on this issue that is breathtaking. I mean, think of incompetence..........the last 10/15 years on this have been a whole new level. Look at Anfield. And were not exactly talking new era super stadia here. It PISSES all over Goodison. They have done 3 sides and they are going to go again, with a move or re-development.

For many reasons re-development is now pretty much accepted as financially the way to go.

Its common knowledge that when KEIOC, in its original form, GFE(Goodison For-Everton) were opposing the original Kirkby move under Johnson, Kenwright helped pay for the feasibility study they produced that showed Goodison Park can be redeveloped, in a phased fashion, with capacity never falling below 30k, starting with the Park End (etc etc all the things we have previously discussed), to 50k capacity.

The architect was an Evertonian, Trevor Skempton, who worked on the St James development. I believe there is a link to it on this site which MK threw up a couple of weeks back. This is about 12-15 years old. I say all the above from memory, if there are any factual errors I apologise.

They know it can be done. Its been shown since as well. But our board have an agenda. The board’s stance is deliberate. The neglect of our infrastructure is deliberate. They maintain a redevelopment can't be done to put a lid on debate or, more accurately, guillotine it. It’s a deliberate do nothing policy, waiting for a get out that isn't coming, or a stadium free ride that doesn't exist other than their own imagination.

Future planning, buying up properties or businesses to extend the footprint for future expansion. What? To, like, build up your infrastructure and invest in facilities for your revenue generator? To provide decent facilities for your customers?! The structure, the signifier, the thing that possibly represents and defines the club the most. Something that is there for generation after generation and should be updated, progressed, protected, enhanced and developed for future generations?

No chance. It's a dream with these people in charge. Its being left to rot.

Its wilful neglect.

"We can't we have no money and we have no hope."

Well, utilise the goodwill of the fan base you routinely abuse and have a share rights issue. Then, putting it bluntly, pick a fucking stand, throw all the modern facilities you can in there, generate some cash and get going.

And if there is any cash left over, enough to re-roof and get rid of the obstructed views, do that, step by step.

But they wont. They wont consider or do ANYTHING to progress the club.

And for that alone, they should be fucking gone.

Paul Norman, I agree with you on this, and thought the exact same myself, but then I am no expert.

It may even be half that amount of houses too.

For a complete solution we have to move the pitch, otherwise we are building in mediocrity. That is expensive so why spend when we might get somewhere better? This is an old argument but still relevant now there is no sign of a move. Decide. Commit.

What form that re-development would take is another debate. And I agree if you’re going to do it, do it right.

But I reference it to make the point that there are options, it can be done and the club refuse point blank to entertain any. If there was a feasibility study made touching 15 years ago that said it can be done, it’s likely it can be done today. The board have an agenda. You ask, “What is the point of spending when you may get somewhere better?” But how are Everton currently going to do this? They are looking at one route, an enabling development. All other options are off the table. The Everton board want a solution that is very unrealistic.

We have to lance this boil, soon. I am not a zealot that wants to remain at Goodison and all other alternatives have no merit. If the club actually got its shit together and presented a move that was beneficial, suitable workable, deliverable that’s great. That’s what I want. But it’s over a decade since KD and the club haven’t managed it ONCE!! The one option they did have, they couldn’t even show where the funding was coming from at the public enquiry.

Basically, in the absence of any communication from the board, based on the farces of the last 10/11/12 years I am assuming a move is a long shot!!

Phased re-development would, as I’m sure you are aware be a gradual outlay, we could do it over time, we could do 2 sides and then wait, it’s controllable. And we COULD kick start it with, for example, a share issue. It’s do-able. And, on a side issue, it would be a great way to heal the wounds of the fan base. A common purpose, the shares would get taken up. Everton fans are split, they are divided, but there is still so much latent love and support for the club out there. It could kick start support for the club again. Put your money into the club, and we will rebuild this ground. It would generate momentum. People WANT to see the club progressed, they WANT to see it built up. When I go to Goodison these days, even though I love being there, I feel slightly melancholy.

Plenty of clubs have considered moving, or have moved, and have updated their infrastructure. Chelsea, Liverpool have done 3 sides, Spurs have done behind both goals and filled in corners 2 corners, Arsenal and City did 2 sides/ends before moving. The Premier League has been going 20 years, how long do you need to update? I accept fragmented ownership has played a part in where we have arrived. For example, our single effort, under the Marsh board, the Park End bandage, was pathetic and is a symbol of the make do, short sighted thinking that has blighted the club for decades. Virtually zero corporate, no executive boxes, this in the area of the footprint that is most ripe for expansion and we moan we’re potless. But that stand is rectifiable in one close season. We don't even give ourselves a chance. We have done nothing. The ground is a serious embarrassment.

We really cannot be in this situation in another 10 years but at the moment it look highly likely we will be. Can you imagine what Goodison Park is going to look like in 10 years compared to other stadiums? It hurts us in so many ways.

For me the situation is approaching critical status. The club need to get pro-active and engage with all options, instead, they have shut down and it is, for me, the issue fans need to pressure the board about and seek some answers and some clarity.

It’s going to be 20 years soon. The subject is a gaping wound of inaction, lack of ideas and vision. Do they have any plans? Are they just waiting for the bailout? We need to do something, urgently. I agree 100% Thomas, decide, commit. But that isn’t possible with a board that will only consider one possibility to fit in with a very narrow agenda.

And it’s the reason the time since the KD has been dead time, wasted on schemes that were never going to happen, other avenues to solve this problem dismissed as our current infrastructure rots. I don’t trust them to solve this problem and no-one is demanding any answers.

"75 houses at £65k". I don't know who owns them, or has a lease, and whether or not any of these people want to sell/move. You can't be suggesting 'compulsory purchase' of some kind can you? I think you would have to have all of them - every single one - agreeing, in writing, to sell before it would be worth buying one of them. And, incidentally, just see what £65k turns into under those circumstances.

A car dealership? Never bought one, but any motor trader knowing the buyer was EFC would move - at a price.

School - with Michael Gove in charge of education in this country you could probably get a primary school in a working class area for about half a crown, and not bother replacing it, so that might be a goer.

What about that church on the corner? Why haven't we bought that?

And, as I've said before, I don't know how Liverpool City Council operates, but is planning permission likely to be given for all this?

Hate to be negative, or realistic perhaps, as we all know something has to be done. But not, I suspect, this way.

Phased redevelopment is the obvious answer. Aston Villa is the best equivalent example of what a Club of our size and relative success could and should have done in the last 20 years. They had footprint issues, listed building issues, they could have been complacent as they already staged FA Cup semis every year, but they got on with it and the last phase is due to start soon.

Contrast that with our lamentable Park End and that was eighteen years ago.

When I was a kid, I used to write to Everton and ask for the players' autographs. Months later ( they have always been like this, not just now ) I would get back a little blue, black and white brochure containing printed autographs and a bit of propaganda for want of a better word, about the Club. In it, they raved about Goodison Park, the playing surface, seating on all four sides, covered stands, 25000 seats in a capacity of 54000, etc, etc. and at the time it was impressive compared to just about every other team. But that was 1977/78!

Since then the only real changes are seating the terraces, a roof over t.he Street End and the crap single tier Park End. This problem goes back a very long way and we have had complacent Directors for many decades.

When you think what we have wasted in transfer fees and wages on some players in the last twenty years, it is a disgrace that we are where we are now.

In the past it's been mooted as a way of investing in the club to take us to the mythical next level, but in reality, if we were to raise £15m, we'd cover Fellaini's next contract.

If hell were to freeze over, and they did go for it and raise £15m (wildly optimistic IMHO) then putting that money to a new stand would be the most sensible use - and that's why it won't happen! (Or buy back Finch Farm).

Who would want to put aside the Rodwell money now instead of bringing in 2/3 players?

Thats what I mean when I say they won't do anything to progress the club. There are ways out of our current situation and the club will not entertain them.

On the rights issue question Matt, why do you think £15 millon is optimistic. im going on memory but we raised that in the Johnson one. On the back of a good season, finishing in a uefa spot, club progressing, would be an ideal time.

In fact we have had all this already. Probably after the Champions League finish was the optimum time, or any point between 2006-2009, we were genuinely progressing, gates were up etc.

I make the point as, again, there ARE ways to kick start the club. We arent down and out and without hope. It would take a long time but this club CAN be rebuilt.

The cul de sac we are is one of our own making. The boards narrow agenda has driven us into it and now we sit there doing nothing with the engine ticking over till the petrol runs out.

On the immediate issues facing the club if they are to move forward, ownership and the urgent ground move/redevelopment thorn, the board are blocking any serious dialogue.

They have such a narrow agenda, they are the roadblock to the club making progress on any level.

There are some enthusiastic and energetic supporters out there, but try to get anything going a la Trust Everton and they will label you as "Blue Union". The disdain for the fans, and indeed shareholders, goes back to the abolition of AGMs, and the comment from a senior exec at the time describing dissenting shareholders as "drunken knobhead Evertonians". Concerned fans more like.

BK never had the money to buy the club in the first place, and whilst I have no doubt he wants a profit (not in itself unreasonable) he quickly realised he was out of his depth and by bringing in third parties who are only after £ he has failed to do what is in the best interests of Everton Football Club. He's dug a hole that no buyer is going to bail him out of.

The shareholders should really question him at the next AGM.

Oh...

I know its a non starter so its currently irrelevant, but if it was for the purposes of ground redevelopment with a proactive board who fans knew meant business, to help be a part of rebuilding Goodison, there would be take up. There is alot of dormant support for the club.

We havent embraced our suoport for a long time, I hear you, your right.

I am sick of watching the club self harm.

I know its a non starter so its currently irrelevant, but if it was for the purposes of ground redevelopment with a proactive board who fans knew meant business, to help be a part of rebuilding Goodison, there would be take up. There is alot of dormant support for the club.

We havent embraced our suoport for a long time, I hear you, your right.

I am sick of watching the club self harm.

It will probably upset a few on here but while most of us just talk about solutions to the stadium problem the likes of keioc, who I’m not a member of, actually do something about it. It’s the reason why I’ve said before that if you want a trust everton kind of thing you need to get keioc involved or you end up doing what everyone always does, just talking.
Peter Lang you joke about the dog shit and the resurfacing, you think that’s just come about? The council now have a machine to clean this up off the pavements, there’s flags announcing to the world about the city’s football area around Goodison and Anfield, that’s all come about due to a change in the city's perception of the potential of anfield and walton.

3 years ago the impact of football on this city wasn’t on the council’s agenda, but keioc and their opposite number at LFC have ensured that “destination football” or The Football Quarter as they call it, is a major part of the council strategy for north Liverpool and they meet with the council, businesses, residents and at least one of the clubs on a regular basis. What you’re seeing in the OP is LFC taking advantage of it but of course because what Matt Trainor describes, the unsuitability of Kenwright as an owner, he should never have taken it on, Everton are once again sitting there unable to take advantage of what the city is offering.

GFE certainly predated KEIOC and they were seperate organisations. I don't know if there was any crossover in personnel between them.

When I was knocking out the post(792) I was actually trying to remember the name of the firm who did the GFE study(as you correctly state Ward McHugh), as due to time blurring things I was linking Trevor Skempton to that particular firm!!

Whereas the GFE feasibility study was seperate to anything Trevor Skempton has produced. I have definitely seen re-development plans from Trevor Skempton.

I was basically going off the top of my head. I have checked and Trevor is behind the KEIOC plans redevelopment plans the football quarter.

That clarity is necessary and important. Basically, its been shown consistently over the last 15 years that it can be done.

The reason I started knocking out these posts on the spur of the moment(and to be honest Paul I wish I had checked the GFE/KEIOC/Skempton type info instead of banging it out from memory) was is to highlight what I see as the intransigence of the current board on this Football Quarter issue and the dismay I feel as Liverpool are staying put and seem to be embracing aspects of the concept as you point out.

The Football Quarter concept is the most exciting thing I have seen in terms of a new ground/redevelopment, the ground issue, since the Kings Dock. Certainly more creative than anything Everton have come up with(DK ffs!?!) or could ever hope to. Genuinely innovative.You clearly know about it, as you say the the council are now fully on board, its part of the vision for North Liverpool. A programme for development, taking advantage of the cultural assets the football clubs are to bring social and economic regeneration.

As Ive mentioned above, re-development seems to be the most pragmatic way for Everton to go and this may, just may, be the best way we are going to get to do it. You would think Everton would engage and be receptive.

Our response so far appears to have been to cover our ears, close our eyes and pretend it doesn't exist. They only care about a narrow agenda that is slowly suffocating the club. In the relationship between Everton and the council in the last 15 years, its Everton, or rather this board, that has been the problem.

Thats what I mean by self harming. How many opportunities are we going to throw away? How many potential schemes can we afford to ignore? We are not in a position to start blanking council endorsed schemes really are we? How arrogant.

Your right Paul, I do feel completely impotent just posting stuff on here. But the reason ive started banging this shit out is that the clubs approach on this issue makes me genuinely angry. Ive gotten involved in other stuff as I am sick of the way the club is being ran. Its not just about Moyes transfer kitty and me wanting to see 5 £10 million pound new signings every August. Its goes much deeper than that.

The club is visibly wilting and there are no solutions. The current board are making it impossible to make progress on issues that have been on the "to do" list for over a decade. Sooner or later we going to be fucked. These are issues that need confronting.