Cyber bullies blamed for seige mentality at Everton

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/everton-fc/everton-fc-news/2013/03/15/cyber-bullies-are-adding-to-seige-mentality-at-everton-fc-100252-32994510/

I'm inclined to agree with you, John. Grim stuff indeed. (Oh, by the way, do you work for a gin manufacturer? It's just that every one of your posts seem to mention gin! Are you on commission, like?)

Why must Everton fans be singled out as foul-mouthed and full of vitriol when those who support other clubs are seen as defenders of their principles or keeping the traditions, how many managers have Everton fans hounded out of a job? How many owners left because they couldn't stand the heat of the fans wrath? How many other clubs fans would have taken it on the chin to accept punishment for another clubs fans bad behaviour? Where was the local or national press campaign to have Everton re-instated or receive a lesser ban?

I've often wondered what would have happened if it had been Everton fans who had misbehaved in Rotterdam and a blanket ban had have been introduced on all English Clubs, I would wager that United and Liverpool fans would have been back in Europe within a year of the ban, whether they had earned qualification or not and Everton relegated to the lowest league possible.

It's no wonder the fans are angry, I don't condone any threatening behaviour towards anyone especially not over football, but the press and the club's representatives cannot forever run scared of the truth. That's all fans want to know, the real situation about the state of the club, tell us the truth and even those who cannot stand the individuals in charge would rally round and actually do something positive if they were asked, we care passionately about the club and every goal conceded and every point dropped hurts us, if that type of passion is good enough for other clubs fans then it is good enough for Evertonians, we have been around a long time and will remain to support the club.

We will not just stand and watch our great club fall to pieces or wait until a Portsmouth situation arises, we will continue to complain and question, if the club choose not to answer then that is their prerogative, but they will lose the very people that they need the most, us those people who support the club.

It is nothing short of disgusting that David Prentice infers that all supporters using sites like this one are cowards, when the real cowards are holed up in the boardroom

I think the response (below) on there from KEIOC is excellent and basically nails Prentice to the wall.

"Well Dave I hope you're not including us in this as if you ask you're boss he'll tell you we treat journalists at the Echo with respect always have always will.

The hijacking the club are talking about is directed at us and it doesn't stop at hijacking it extends to abuse. Which is a barefaced lie.

You wonder why people get upset at you? It's when you treat them with contempt. You know and we know that Ian Ross used to write those blogs for Elstone, An email was leaked to the fans which showed him doing it and Elstone refused to put that particular one out. They are the same emails in which the club state that your paper will help them in their fight against the fans as "they owe us" Until you tackle the root cause of Everton's problems, the structure of the ownership, a structure that is the reason why Everton has received no investment in the past 14 years, will continue to receive no investment and will essentially wither on the vine, tackle that and people will begin to respect you.

Whilst we have no time for the abuse you receive, writing articles which combine the activities of idiots with fan activists only hasten the inevitable boycott of this paper by groups who are well capable of prosecuting such a campaign. The actions of the Echo during Kirkby have not been forgotten, offering a badge of honour over being banned from Bellefield serves little purpose with individuals who have seen the extent of the papers collaboration with a primary source of news with which they sell their papers.

You can complain all you like, people who can't articulate their frustration lash out; you can do something about that or do nothing and moan"

Absolutely Patrick, The people in charge of the club are a disgrace and Prentice and Co sadly only reinforce my view.

Bill will be praying for a win tomorrow and lets say we are 2 - 0 up with 10 mins to go you can bet his mug will appear on the big screen... gurning at us all with Woods chuntering next to him.

The Powers that be will say nothing as they have absolutely nothing to say.

Charlatans the lot of them.

Yes there has been vitriol from some sections but this happens every week at every football club up and down the country.

That should not be condoned but why is that suddenly an issue and why is the finger pointed at Everton?

Prentice has done his utmost to miss the point entirely. Fans are pissed off, and rightly so. We want changes, we've had enough. How do we express our opinions? We can't take banners in the ground, we get slammed for booing, we have no real communication with the club and a local paper that doesn't represent us.

It's time the Echo and the Club picked up on what is going on. It's our club and we deserve a say.

That is one criticism he cannot get away with regarding this site. I would guess the majority of posters here use their real name, and we are all expected to respect other posters as a condition of using this site.

Mr Prentice – I am sure you would be most welcome to post here, but I am certain you would not be able to sugar coat the goings on at the club, as you do in your day job.

Following this latest piece which is using his name and calling people cyber warriors hiding behind PCs, I again asked him to name the Echo cyber warrior. Again, no answer.

Most people have mentioned in other threads but the Echo, Prentice and O'Keeffe are exactly what they are. Useless. It is pointless asking them anything. They will do nothing to upset the Board.

There will come a time when this present Board sell out. I guarantee that Prentice and the rag he works for will be the "leading light" in supporting the punters in ridding the Club of Kenwright et al.

Poor excuse for journalists and an even poorer excuse for a local paper.

Nothing will change. Trinity Mirror has printing contracts for Everton so will do nothing to upset the apple cart. The sad thing is, all around the country "proper" journalists are trying to recover from the tarnishing the sector received post-Leveson.

Seems he's been riled by the twitter account - Boycott The Red Echo (@RedEchoBoycott) which is doing a good job of chronicling some of the past coverage "highlights" of our club.

If there's enough momentum behind a desire for Echo journalists to ask the club difficult questions, then in the end they will. It will have to be perceived as a popular uprising, though, not a campaign manipulated by interest groups. People power, innit. Newspapers respond to that sort of thing because, financially, they have to.

Because it was the latest in a line of poor performances when it really matters which really shows up the failings of the manager and the board.

The likes of Prentice have got to understand that by ignoring these faults and only talking up their good points they are merely helping to cement those faults.

When things go wrong (again) is exactly the time the clubs representatives should be visible and vocal, not retreating into 'lead-lined bunkers' - obviously the fundamentalist Evertonians have acquired nuclear weapons! - whilst getting their minions to sling as much mud in the faithful fans directions as possible.

Woeful stuff really but if you ban AGMs and there's no meaningful dialogue including local press doing their job by showing some teeth and objectivity fans are going to vent.

The "lead lined bunker" line just reflects the "them and us" mentality the club could bridge instantly with more honesty and better communication.... restoration of AGMs would be a start.

A decent local journo might want to find why engaging meaningfully with fans is such a no no - shame there isn't one at The Echo.

You and your rag are in cahoots with Bill up to your necks Prenno many Evertonians have long given up on you lot so stop whinging.

Purrlease, we're cyber-bullies! COYB.

Kev #491, The Sun has always backed the winning party, simply because it waits until the final few weeks before deciding so it can run with ludicrous headlines like "It Wos The Sun Wot Won It". A bit like placing your bet on a horse when it's in the final furlong and 10 lengths clear. Also, I don't recall them backing a coalition in 2010.

At the end of the day the contrast between The Echo's coverage of Gillet and Hicks at the other lot, and our stagnation speaks for itself.

Log on here and put up a post or article, then sit by your computer and respond to the replies one by one. No hidden agenda, no bullshit, just plain facts and straight talking.

Ps. Sorry Michael and Lyndon I know you run the site and I don't mean to go over your heads.

I pay good money for my season ticket. I have the right to have ago at those overpaid under performing so-called football players.

Still no closer to the identity of the 'cyber bully' retorts of a couple of days ago are we?

Prentice, I'm surprised you penned such a thing when no one from the Echo could put their name to a 'rebuttal' allegedly speaking on behalf of the Echo.

Secondly, I await the next expose on the catering facilities and food quality in the forthcoming season...

They won't put their own money into the Club so why should they expect us to so if they are blaming the true supporters for the state we are in then it's a new low in this board's tenure, but not really surprising given their history.

I was in a restaurant last week and there were still people who believe BK saved the club from oblivion by ousting Johnston, and even more bizarrely believe he has borrowed and borrowed to fund the club.

The £24M other operating costs have got to be exposed, even if the money went on Gold Plated lawn Mowers.

Oh well, we must all be wrong then! It's because we were all gobsmacked by the absolutely pathetic performance after hearing all week about how much getting back to Wembley meant to all the players! I ( and I know I'm not the only one) drive a long way to watch MY team as supporting this club is in my blood. Who the hell is Prentice to say we can't ask questions? Why the hell not. His suggestion that some at the club have retreated into their lead lined bunkers is quite interesting. How long have they been built for? Almost as if the one's in the corridors of Goodison have been preparing for war for a long time, against their own bloody fans! I don't expect us to be winning the Champions League at the minute. I do expect to see a well run, professional (I know) outfit and see players at least turn up with a decent attitude. Does that make us all bullies now?

One of the issues the Echo had with the Collymore show was that he didn't name his "source" in the Club. He was well slagged for this, now we have Dumb speaking to "one senior Goodison official"

You really couldn't make it up!!

He's an embarrassment to his profession — if you can call it one!

You and your paper have no shame. Do you read the comments left on your column? Most of the posters on there want answers to the club's stagnation — not how many times that lying Charlatan has been the match.

The second half of the show could just be an empty stage with the odd tumbleweed blowing through and be simply entitled 'other operating costs'

That Wigan performance was the worst I've witnessed at Goodison since the infamous Tranmere debacle under Smith all them years ago. FFS, Wigan's keeper never made a save until the 91st minute off Osman – what does that say about the performance?

When we got to the final in 09, we had to beat 4 Prem sides to get there. This season, we never had to beat anyone. And before anyone starts waxing lyrical about Wigan, they're shite. That's why we were devastated.

If we'd have beaten Wigan, we'd have now been looking forward to playing Millwall in the semi-final. A marvellous chance of getting to the final, if ever there was one. These people live on a different planet and know jack shit about football or Everton FC.

Unfortunately for most of us, Everton are a pivotal part of our lives — that's why the manner of a defeat like last Saturdays hurt so damn much.

As for that twat, Prentice, the less said about him, the better. I thought he supported the Shite the way he goes on about that marvellous institution. His words not mine... but, as someone earlier pointed out, he's only Billy Liar's puppet anyway.

It's because they've got so many lies to hide.

Kirkby, FSF, Is Green a shadow director? the Boys Pen, Eddie Cavanagh, Elvis, 4 chief executives, Finch Farm, What is Earl's role etc, etc...

What do the board do except enjoy the hospitatlity and punt interest payments to the Cayman Isles?

So may I please ask Mr Prentice to conduct some investigative journalism, and may I ask the Everton board to come out and offer some meaningful comment about the future direction of our club?

THE celebrated director was plugging his latest film when he made the above statement.

He was absolutely spot on.

But he qualified it with the adjoinder: "The city is full of very articulate, thoughtful people and it’s always a joy to be there – I always feel connected because the people make you feel welcome' David then argues that The city of Liverpool might well be full of those types of people.

But they don’t inhabit cyberspace.

So Mr Prentice did you mean that every nasty utterance written in cyberspace either to yourself or people connected to the club must have been written by people who don't reside in the City, so therefore they obviously don't understand the Club or its governance, or did you mean that they do come from the City but are not the type of supporters the newspaper or the club should tolerate? How do you know what part of the world these cyber-warriors originate from? Everton FC like every sports club in the world is a broad church and it will have its share of idiots like everybody else, but I'm not sure Mr. Prentice exactly what you are getting at but I do feel that you are way out of line.

There is no doubt that he is giving a clubs perspective, indeed probably an Elstone or BK response. It's really quite incredible and hypocritical piece of writng riddled with irony.

Personal abuse from cyber warriors caused the siege mentality? No, that's true Mr Prentice, ever heard the phrase "cause and effect?" I would say that on all the justifiable concerns that fans have raised with club officials over the years, it has been matched with an arrogance and oft not reported condemnation for asking the questions again when no answers are forthcoming.

There is an abuse of the fans by Everton FC that portrays them as a minority who have no right to comment let alone demand. As I said, cause and effect. One thing you cannot deny is that the present board and management of the club have split the fan base and let it happen without care or concern. The club uses the Echo as a mouthpiece to make attacks on those fans who have no such vehicle than fans forums. For Gods sake even our shareholders have had their opportunity to ask permanent questions removed!

By their comments and actions they have abused the trust of the fans, it's been a two way street, the fans now do not trust a word anyone at the club says anymore with respect especially to transfers, safety of Goodison, viable options for the future of the club etc, etc,

We have been lied to and mislead and one has to ask why, why lie to the fans unless you have another agenda at play?

I for one, do not personally abuse anyone as do countless hundreds of fans asking legitimate questions regarding the status and future of our club. We don't hide or use nameless spokesmen to voice our concerns, is it any wonder your artcle has attracted such a response?

The abuse of power causes people to respond, press power, business greed, manipulation of facts to suit a few. This is why fans respond with anger because their is a lack of transparency and a flagrant disregard for our concerns and the right to voice them

We have no mouthpiece or PR team to.spin our views, the siege mentality this club has is a direct response th their own arrogance to being found out for what they are.

Millionaires don't make their fortunes by being nice to people, many are ruthless users of people and the press to get what they want. We have a set of millionaires running this club who care not a jot for fans and will abuse their power to condemn those who do not share their views.

Trust in love affairs is hard won and easily lost. Like an unfaithful partner who keeps abusing your respect and dignity, once gone it never returns. Do I trust this board to be honest with the fans? No for theirs is abuse that is far worse than a nasty comment, it's ongoing, persistant and manipulative.

Mr Prentice if you read this, I am sorry you have received what sounds like personal abusive messages, the anger and frustration is no justification for such, but the failures of the club are there for all to see ( as are the many successes too such as Everton in the community)

The club has abused our trust as fans in trying to manipulate us at every turn, so it's hardly surprising when fans fight back. If they are in bunkers, its because they arrogantly believed they could abuse the fans and not be taken to task.

The very same argument can be made against the Echo, their are two sides to every story Mr Prentice, you know it but have elected over the years not too rock the boat. Someone should tell you we are in a storm and the board have already decided to lock the watertight doors and let the fans sink.

Throw personal abuse at them, disrespect their views, that'll win them over eh?

As much as some people don't like it, its the reality. Too many of the people who have perfectly valid suspicions about the club, show a total and utter lack of respect to those with opposing views. Their subsequent righteous indignation at the fact that they then fail to influence these peoples thinking is staggering. You need to be smarter guys, you are actually harming our call for change, engage with people like Prentice as it is they who have the power to make a difference. Throwing your toys out of the pram when they fight back (in the case of Prentice) or go to ground (in the vase of the club) harms your cause. Be smart, control your passion and start trying to win the argument through constructive, respectful debate.

In my opinion, this is a PR exercise by the Everton board designed to get fans behind the manager, team and Kenwright so that when the boos descend from the stands they are met with disgust from the gullible who somehow buy into the spin. A siege mentality is what this board are trying to create between our own fans (again), an us and them, your either with us or against EFC type of scenario. They want it to appear like you are a troublemaker if your not behind the club and more of a fan if you just clap and don't question anything.

This probably IS Kenwright and his buddies calling in a favour from Prentice.

I know he reads this site as he has responded to some of the threads about previous players from the 70s etc.

Why don't you write a piece of honest, investigative journalism about EFC then? Ask the questions that the fans want asking.

Why has there been no financial investment this last 14 years?
Why have we been allowed to become a loss making club with debts and all our revenue streams tied up? After all, this wasn't the case when the current board took over.
Why haven't we been sold?
What is the asking price? Let's get an official answer from the board instead of more cloak and dagger stuff.
Why have there been no improvements to the ground? An extra tier on the Park End would pay for itself in a few years.
What is the plan moving forward? Will it be anything more than selling off our best players and waiting for the TV money cheque to arrive, like it is now?
How come we sold our training ground to rent one?
When are we going to get AGMs again? n.b. Arsenal still have them, an their fans ask tricky questions I am sure...

By the way, I deliberately haven't mentioned other topics, such as FSF, DK, King's Dock etc. I'm prepared to leave all that in the past, as it won't achieve much dragging it all back up again now. But the fans want to know what is happening to our club NOW!

Make no mistake, Moyes has been the glue that has kept this club going these last 11 years, and it looks like he'll be off in the summer.

We have a board (apart from Kenwright) who don't give a fuck about Everton, they don't attend games, don't want to put their hand in their pocket, they only want to sell the club for a massive profit. And unfortunately, we are stuck with these puppet masters - Kenwright being the puppet. We all know it, and so do you Dave.

It's up to you what side you want to be on Dave. But the freeloaders that make up the Everton board won't be here in 20 years, but the club and fans still will.

Do you want to be the voice of the fans? Or do you want to be the mouth organ for this current board? Because there is a huge divide between the club and the fans under this current board. If you want to do nothing more than pander to the board, you might as well close the door and leave when they do.
P.S. It's wrong if you have received personal abuse on twitter. All decent people would agree. But in the position you are in, you have to accept a degree of professional criticism, as you are the club correspondent, an the fans don't like what the local press is reporting about the club.

I get more information from sites such as Toffeeweb and simply don't need the sugar coated rubbish churned out by the likes of Prentice. I must be honest up until now I had no ill feeling towards him because well, he has to write that shite because his job depends on it, keeping the club happy that is. I think he has made a big mistake having a crack at the likes of us on here because people like me will now see him as not just looking after his job but actually taking sides.

Like others I find the secrecy that comes from the running of the club totally unexceptable. I know that we can't be privy to everything but I'm sure that the club could be far more open than it is. We would probably be more sympathetic as a result instead of guessing about what's going on, which lets be honest, is what we are doing by and large.

Finally, I have got a feeling that the rest of the season is going to be a complete disaster and we will finish around mid table. I'm actually thinking that it maybe best in the long run as we are only papering over the cracks. This club needs a good shake up starting with a change of manager, not a manager who will stay only if he dosn't land a plum job. I've no doubt that Moyes failing to commit his future to the club is having a detrimental effect on the form shown by the team and I hope he pays a price for it.

Couple of things.

1) He works for a newspaper, not an opinion-paper. People buy the paper to find out what is going on, not what someone THINKS is going on.

2) You (nb: not you specifically you - actually him specifically) have to define 'bullies' otherwise you can tar everyone with the same brush. I see a BIG difference between someone post 'You fucking wanker" and someone posting a valid point angrily and/or passionately.

He (deliberately imo) doesn't, instead just lashes out at every contrary opinion, therefore, deliberately, tries to muddy the water

Why can't we have reporting on Everton that tells it how it is?

If you believe this is a sudden new attack on Prentice et al having not considered dialogue then you are sadly mistaken and by a long way, I've no idea who has launched the attacks on him over twitter but as equally insulting to him are the banal and diversionary lack of true journalism from both himself and O'Keefe over several years, don't get suckered by repetition of the club's company line.

I have read about some supporters having a 300m round trip, with their kids in tow, and that makes me shed a tear.

What a bunch of twats the Echo are proving. Shame on you.

Evertonians??? They will put up with any shit as long as they are not in a relegation fight, and that's the truth fellas. Hence all the hype of them pushing for a top Four place and Everton trying to bounce back after a Cup Exit.

Kenwright would have been run out of town if he had tried to do there what he has done here. The theatres across the world would hve been targeted with flags and demos outside before every performance. But that's not the Everton way; we just put up with
the mismanagement of the club and are very careful for what we wish for... As I've said before. God Help Us.

So they've never heard abuse like last week's GP result?

Was Prentice not aware of the abuse Hicks and Gillette got? It came through my radio loud and clear from that shower of shit across the park.

Was he not aware of the abuse Roy Hodgson got from his own set of fans? Does he not recall the "Dalglish" chants even as Hodgson's arse had barely touched the seat? YNWA my hairy arse.

The Echo - good for one thing only (but Andrex is softer).