Everton need at least 9 more points

No.

Why would this be posted on the site knowing its just going to be taken out of context by anyone who doesn't like the guy.

"If we want to have any chance of getting close to Europe I feel we will certainly have to get above the 60 points mark.”

Where does he say he feels 3 more wins would be enough?

David Moyes: "We need more than 60 points."

Possible total for us 75 points.The manager sets his sights low again... He is a "glass third-full" man.

For 60 - 61 to be enough that would mean the likes of Arsenal and Chelsea only getting 7 and 5 points respectively from their last 8 games.... can't see that happening. Especially when you take into account they are all playing us... so that means if we take 9 points, we are losing points to them, which means we cannot overtake them..... just doesn't add up.

I would also mean the the RS would have to get no more than 12 points from their seven games in order not to overtake us....

Lets just hope it's his maths that are dodgy and not his aspirations! Please, not 7th again, or 6th, let's go for something higher. Sure we have hard games on the road, but those games mean we are not reliant on other teams dropping points, we can take those points. Four "six pointers" to come.

His calculations have really confused me!!

Nice to see you will give Moyes the benefit of your doubt if he beats 3 of the top five away from home as well as the R/S. I think even if he beat all these teams I am sure you will find something your not happy with. Do you think the reason the media don't criticize him is because by and large he has done a terrific job of managing Everton especially with such limited budgets.

But they would prefer to finish above 7th - wouldn't they?!

'Moyes knows that even if we went down to the Conference his job would be safe and we would be protected from the media as well. '

Instead of entertaining O'Queef and his insightful and thought provoking questions, he should, of course, have invited him out to the training ground where Thomas Hitzlsperger could use his head as a makeshift football.

1) Qualify for Europe,
2) Beat the RS, and
3) Finish above the RS.

In that order....everything else is just plain noise.

There are lots of Moyes critics with valid points and well argued cases and then there are those who are just desperate to attack every single thing he does with little balance or perspective. Increasingly you seem to appear the latter.

You beat yourself in an argument... Well done.

At the moment the maximum points that the 3 teams above us can achieve is a minimum of 77(Arsenal), 78(Spurs), and 79(Chelsea) points. Our maximum points hall is 75 so if we were to achieve that we would get Europa League and it would be a fight with Spurs on GD, but if Spurs did beat Chelsea then we would finish above Chelsea into 4th place by a point. But then again we'll probably draw all eight of our remaining games and end up on 59 points.

Ross Edwards, (currently slitting his wrists on multiple threads) writes: " Many Moyes supporters like finishing 7th, don't they?"

Name one, I dare you.

And: " Money and reputation drives this guy; not the fans or the results."

The 'money,' is market-driven; He was offered it - he took it. And surely it IS his results and the totality of his record that establish the 'reputation,' no?

Then comes the 'Ross Edwards Litmus Test..'

"I will give Moyes the benefit of the doubt if we get wins against Spurs, Chelsea, the RS and Arsenal."

Right, so in order for the manager of the sixth-best team in the country to earn Ross's 'respect,' he has to perform a feat that I believe even Barcelona would struggle with.

I also think Moyes would laugh you out of his office if you said that to his face.

Finally, after three consecutive league wins: "Moyes out."

(My favourite).

If the negativity on here is proportional, (Nb: It isn't) then just how GRIM must it be for all the people who follow the 14 Premier League clubs below Everton..?

...Or of the 72 others further down?

So "...if we want to have any chance of getting close to Europe I feel we will certainly have to get above the 60 points mark” seems to be an entirely reasonable statement.

Everything from the club is played down, low key and sometimes negative! The Red Shite are always positive, most times deluded! However they believe in themselves and they achieve things....

And before Nick Entwistle starts again, I know they have got better resources blah blah — but their manager's shite and ours is a god, so that should count for something, even through your besotted eyes. Maybe a win at Anfield once every 12 years!!!!!!!

Not only that, we've missed two open goals this season, loosing to Wigan in the FA Cup and 18pts dropped from winning positions, all due to negative substitutions and tactics.

Personally, I love Moyes for the way he's carried himself and the respectability he's brought to Everton, but when will he say something positive, like:

"We expect to get 70 pts minimum, anything less would be disappointing for a squad with our talent."

Or, "We're going all out to win every game now 'cos draws are not good enough. We always finish strongly and I'm expecting big performances these players."

And FFS leave someone quick on the half-way line when defending corners!

The media drives our expectations down and he plays along with it, which our board must absolutely love. That's why some fans are critical of him, he defends the board thus protecting his own position.

And there is some truth that he encourages the misconception that our resources only allow for a 7th place finish. I would argue that with our squad, it was impossible not to finish above west brom and Swansea! So following that logic, any manager would perform just as well.

Maybe a Laudrup, Rijkard, Martinez might even beat Wigan at home because they wouldn't love Neville, just because he's got some good Alex Ferguson stories and will grass on team mates.

So message to Moyes: It's time to go for it, shit or bust. You're leaving anyway! Jelavic with Anichebe and Mirallas either side, both full backs bombing on, and three in midfield. Give confidence to players and go for it. See what happens.

Spurs will be tired from Thursday, as will Chelsea when we play them. LFC are crap anyway and can't beat anyone above them. If we win 2 loose 2, that's six pts. If we draw 4 that's 4 pts... but we will loose if we go to them places looking for draws and being negative with low expectations. You can't win if you don't have confidence and belief. And you need to stop saying how great these other clubs are, feeding into our club's inferiority complex.

All Evertonians: Not long ago, we were in a better position than Spurs, but they had goals and targets higher than ours. And yes, they spent more money, but all you Moyes lovers can't use that as an excuse as Moyes is brilliant in the transfer market, isn't he? He picks up bargains etc etc WE NEED TO DEMAND MORE from Moyes and our board

Moyes: Transfers 10/10
Coaching 10/10
Dealing with media 10/10
Motivating players 10/10
Tactics 6/10
Positively playing attacking football 5/10

A worse manager with more attacking flair and confidence might actually get better results and more stylish play from the same group of players. Harry Redknapp for example is awful but would get more wins with our squad than Moyes has this season.

Implies they would not prefer to finish higher.

Ridiculous crap Ross

Colin - we may well lose those games and of course Moyes has never won at Chelsea, Arsenal or Liverpool so we could on your basis easily lose the lot! Then what???

So many debates come down to a couple of fundamental questions. Could we be worse off without Moyes? Undeniably yes we could. Could we have been better off? I believe so. Really it comes down to one's attitude to risk.

Ross - don't know where to start mate. I've read (and written) genuine criticism of Moyes on here, but even Tony Marsh bases his attacks on a position with a passing semblance of logic.

First, he had Europe, not top 4, and he thinks AT LEAST 9 points, not the exat amount.

This criticism of Moyes needs to be based on actual fact or interesting points, not based on an interview that was probably taken out of context.

For Everton to qualify for Europe next season, be it CL or europa league we'll need a best ever points total (more than 65). I don't think there willl be much between 4th and 5th maybe a difference of a point or two. Somewhere around 67-68 points might be needed just to finish 5th.

Villa and West Brom have beaten the RS at Anfield this season, Fulham and Wigan have beaten spurs at WHL this season and Swansea have beaten Arsenal at the emirates this season. Along with these, these clubs have also lost at home to the top clubs in the league this season. Can't be bothered to look at the cup results.

Granted it's obviously not easy to win there but its by no means impossible. That sort of small minded thinking is the exact problem that Everton currently suffers from. We're beaten before we've even kicked a ball bollocks. Go there and have a go, you'll win some and you'll lose some – one thing is for sure, if you don't have a go you won't win!

At least give it a fucking go?

We do occasionally, such as the 4-4 game away at Utd. I was more pleased with the never say die attitude than the point.

Moyes lost any respect and belief I had in him when he started coming out with his negative, cancerous bile, such as his knife to a gunfight masterpiece. I'm sick of him "managing expectations" by talking about the 40pt safety mark when we're high in the league.

Talking in this way encourages the players(and management) to take their foot off the gas. Making the players think they don't really deserve to be there so it doesn't matter if we don't stay there or do better. We should be striving for maximum points in every game, sod 40pts or 60pts. Fighting for every game with belief that you can win and deserve to win is the minimum that any football fan should expect of their team and manager. If we try and fail at least we can say we did our best.

If Moyes is wrong, he's wrong... but some people won't have it. I feel its a detriment to the club for a fan to aim anywhere less than the teams around us. There's a fine line between between denial and huge optimism but it's a fan's duty to always want better for the team, no matter where your loyalties lie.

Moyes gives me a buzz when he speaks publicly and how he conducts himself as an Everton member but, if he's picking Neville over any other midfielder with a squad number, I'm gonna say he's a lunatic and team selection has nothing to do with funds once the season starts.

Moyes believers all praise him for his honest attitude so it's time to follow this example and let the club know we're fans of one of the greatest clubs in the land and our aim should be as high as anyone's. If this means Kenwright getting hounded with letters and fans demanding meetings with the board, then so be it.

The club is ours — not theirs!

Wouldn't wish it on anyone but I'd quite like him out for a week.

Now we need to take the oppportunity as Bale is almost certainly out for Sunday.

Let's see if the Spurs defence can cope.

If ever there was a better moment to play spurs at WTL its this weekend, with no Bale and Lennon that's at least the pace on the wings gone.

Things beginning to look up for Sunday?

What I meant is to win all of these games in a row rather than just one of them. I can see how my original comment is misunderstood.

I certainly think we can give a game against all of these teams, but what Ross said was he would respect Moyes if he won all of those games, which I still find absolutely ludicrous, when arguably bar Liverpool, all have better squads than us.

Though strangely I feel that the bigger underdogs we might be the more likely a good performance...

It's the same 3 points we need to have.

COYB

69 68 70 72 76 68 67 61 60 67 av 67.8
65 62 67 63 65 60 65 58 56 64 av 62.5

If we get the same points, proportionately, from the last matches as we have achieved so far then we should finish on about 64 points – maybe enough for 5th but possibly insufficient for 4th place.

64 points would be the 2nd best points total for a whole season since Moyes has been Everton manager.

W 2 D3 L3

Hardly CL form is it, I am generally pro -Moyes but what a tit!

He's drawn his players an arbitrary line in the sand. 60 points is the next marker - lets get there asap and kick on.

If this is our best side in years, and current points totals indicate it is, then why not?

It's not like we have to go to Old Trafford. We can beat those sides, starting with Spurs. Then watch the collective arses of the others begin to twitch.

If we can win on Sunday we will be around 5/1.

Forget bad records at so-called bogey grounds — they count for nothing!

If this is to be Moyes's swansong, it will be a song of triumph. He`s due to stick it to all his doubters and go out as the man who delivered Euro football.

Marsh will be put to the sword!

I'd be really happy for him to leave, were it not for the fact that the replacements lined up by media and fans (not to mention Kenwright) sound so dire: Lennon (oh dear!), Martinez (smiling thug), Mark Hughes (dread the thought!) etc.

He said " I feel we will certainly have to get above the 60 points mark", what part there states he only wants 9 points?....read that line again, we CERTAINLY need to get ABOVE the 60 points mark, ergo we definitely need more than 60 points to try and get "ANY chance of getting CLOSE Europe"

I honestly cannot see where the confusion comes from, to get CLOSE to qualifying, we need over 60 points.

I was trying to make that point; sorry if I confused you.

That is (one of) the point(s) I was making.

Have a nice evening, big man.

Such a throwaway remark to provoke such a debate. However I sympathize with Tony, Brendan and Paul in trying to interpret the true meaning. For advice I suggest a look at this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xLUEMj6cwA

Fingers crossed Mirrallas is fit for Sunday.

If Moyes says "we will certainly have to get above the 60 points mark" and we're currently sitting on 51... well... do the maths.

That means we certainly have to get AT LEAST (ie, any number more than) 9 more points..."if we want to have any chance of getting close to Europe" — the meally mouthed half-arsed way he says it, though, it does really make you wonder — does he really want it??? He doesn't say "getting into Europe". He says: "any chance of getting close to Europe" Fantastic! Close... but once again, no cigar.

And this Echo talk of a "60-point" barrier is utter bollocks. There's no such thing as a 60-point barrier.