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Talks on-going over Traore

by | 11/07/2014  Comments (136)  jump
Martinez confirms desire to bring Ivorian back on loan
Roberto Martinez has re-stated his desire to bring striker Lacina Traore back on loan this coming season after his first spell was wrecked by injury but says that no deal is yet in place with Monaco.

After the 6' 8" striker was spotted at Lime Street station a couple of weeks ago, there was expectation among Evertonians that an announcement confirming Traore's return to Goodison for another season-long loan would be forthcoming but nothing has yet been finalised with either the player or his parent club.

Martinez held a press conference at Finch Farm this morning where he said: At the moment we are still talking with Monaco. With Lacina, it is a three-way conversation and it will [go] a bit further down the line before we take a final decision.

But we always wanted Lacina to be with us and to play his football with us, and that hasn't changed at all.

Traore made just two appearances for Everton last season after arriving from Monaco during the January transfer window, scoring on his debut in the FA Cup against Swansea City.

The manager also spoke about the Romelu Lukaku situation, suggesting that while there is no news regarding the Belgian international, he expects that resolution of his future "won't be too long" in coming.

Lukaku has returned from World Cup duty with Belgium and has already suggested in the press that he will likely need to leave Chelsea to further his career.

In public comments he said that he "has some ideas" over possible destinations and reiterated his preference for a club that can offer him Champions League football as speculation continues to link him with the likes of Atletico Madrid, Wolfsburg and Tottenham.

Martinez has been open about his hopes that Lukaku will choose to return to Everton, who are believed to have already agreed to meet Chelsea's valuation of the player, and the club are apparently willing to be patient while he makes his decision.

"We know the potential of Rom and Chelsea have been very good with the player and we have been really close with our relationship," the Catalan told the media.

We need to find out where we are and there is nothing more to comment.

Every time we spoke about Rom's situation it was very clear that he wanted to go to the World Cup and then make a decision. Obviously it is not going to take too long from now on.

It's one of those situations where I would rather look back and keep those standards and memories, he concluded.

Quotes sourced from EvertonFC.com


Reader Comments (136)

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Mike Allison
1 Posted 11/07/2014 at 12:05:06
"It's one of those situations where I would rather look back and keep those standards and memories"

What does that mean? Is there any more context to that statement as it is quite opaque on its own. To me 'keeping the memories' suggests we'll move on and Lukaku isn't coming, 'look back and keep those standards' suggests he will come in.

I'd be very pleased if Lukaku and Traore were both in our squad next season, very pleased indeed.

Lyndon Lloyd
2 Posted 11/07/2014 at 12:23:14
Yes, that closing line sounded a little ominous to me, too, Mike. Time will tell...
James Marshall
3 Posted 11/07/2014 at 12:25:31
So given that Martinez has stated he wants 3 strikers, and we already have Kone and Naismith - does that intimate that Traore is striker number 3 and that's our lot for the season? That is a worry if you ask me. I don't see any of those 3 scoring enough goals to service the team.

Traore is a completely unknown quantity. Is Naismith seen as a striker? He appears to be, though personally I would see him as a central attacking forward player but not really a striker as such.

Paul Tran
4 Posted 11/07/2014 at 12:28:52
Looking more and more like 'doing business after the World Cup', means let's see what Lukaku's going to do, let's see if we can do a deal, then let's see how much we have left.
Ben Jones
5 Posted 11/07/2014 at 12:34:26
Not sure if Martinez would class Naismith as the third striker James, more maybe challenging Barkley for that number 10 role.

Traore, Kone plus a genuine first team striker, be that Bony, Lukaku, Bacca. It would be good, especially when Mirallas and Naismith can play there.

Plus Traore could have the potential to nail that first team spot, maybe even Kone. Time will tell, but Traore would be an important step for our strike force, especially in Europe.

Phil Roberts
6 Posted 11/07/2014 at 12:35:58
".....reiterated his preference for a club that can offer him Champions League football as speculation continues to link him with the likes of Atletico Madrid, Wolfsburg and Tottenham"

Well 2 out 3 are not - and how well will he suit in Spain.

You have to smile at Journos and Agents. They make Estate Agents and Politicians seem paragons of the truth.

Mike Allison
7 Posted 11/07/2014 at 12:55:28
Its getting a bit semantic but I think Naismith counts as one of four strikers, which as I understand it, is the number Martinez has talked about before. He's a striker if we're playing two up top but he's not a number nine who could play on his own. Also, if we were to sign an extra winger or two, Mirallas is still a good option down the middle.

To me, they are all consolation prizes if we don't sign Lukaku.

Vince Furnier
8 Posted 11/07/2014 at 12:56:47
Ben #5. If Jimmy Greaves was the one to have scored a hat-trick in 1966 would we now be talking about a number 8 role?
Ray Roche
9 Posted 11/07/2014 at 13:02:25
No, Vince, because Pele, Rivelino, etc., were the originators of the "No 10" jersey palaver , not Hurst. Not even Geoff Hurst, never mind the great John Hurst.....
Kevin Tully
10 Posted 11/07/2014 at 13:14:43
Meanwhile, over at the Liverpool Echo, the big breaking new is that one of our ex-players has had a haircut. Not joking.
James Marshall
11 Posted 11/07/2014 at 13:24:29
Fellaini is mad - what has he got left to make him stand out now?

I guess he still has his giant pointy elbows.

James Stewart
12 Posted 11/07/2014 at 13:28:52
We are not Lukaku's first choice. I don't think many would disagree there, and that doesn't sit right with me. Him holding out for any old mediocre CL team. Atletico Madrid fair enough but they passed on him. Now it's the likes of Wolfsburg. I would prefer us to move on before it gets embarrassing.
Tim Muzio
13 Posted 11/07/2014 at 13:34:41
A very small point but Rom still says he plays for Everton FC on his Twitter account - considering how active he is on Twitter, you would have thought he would changed this back to Chelsea.....

He will be back with us in 2 weeks time reporting for training. I do know some of you will rubbish this and laugh it off but footballers care about their status. We will have Rom, Traore, Kone, Naisy and one more player to join them up front.

Robert Collins
14 Posted 11/07/2014 at 13:55:04
He looks like he’s got talent, but he also looks like a bit of a delicate flower.

With the amount of games we’re are about to play next season, we need them as fit a possible all the time, he’s had that hamstring go in just a warm up?

No crocked please Roberto, he’s not even ours so we don’t have to him.

Jamie Crowley
15 Posted 11/07/2014 at 13:58:28
The closing line, to me, doesn't sound encouraging for Rom to come back. Why would you even mention looking back? If you're going to sign him surely you'd be making a comment with the future contextually?

Not good.

Patrick Murphy
16 Posted 11/07/2014 at 14:30:30
The closing statement sounds to me like somebody who feels let down by the player and would prefer to remember the player who was at Everton last season I'm not sure by this statement whether or not Roberto even wants Romelu to join his project - expect a totally different striker to sign before the the window closes.
Jay Harris
17 Posted 11/07/2014 at 14:17:20
I think there are a couple of issues.

Rom as a Chelsea fan and given their current status as top 4 regulars would prefer to stay with Chelsea if he can see an opportunity to play.

On the other hand Mourhino doesnt seem to want to massage his ego and would prefer to sell but not to another Premier league club that may come back to haunt him.

I think Martinez reference to the memories is aimed at Lukaku's state of mind to remind him of how he progressed and enjoyed himself last season.

If he digs his heels in and says he has a preference for Everton we may well get our man even if it is only for a season or two.

Mike Allison
19 Posted 11/07/2014 at 14:46:41
I think Lukaku has this order of preference:

1. Chelsea
2. A Champions League club who play in front of 50,000+
3. Everton

Clubs fitting category 2 are relatively few, and some of them play in weaker leagues he may feel too good for.

We have a chance, but I agree we should put a time limit on it, there's nothing like playing hard to get to make someone step up their interest.

Kevin Tully
20 Posted 11/07/2014 at 14:58:23
Breaking News ; Luis Suarez has issued the following statement to Liverpool fans - "It was completely accidental, I lost my balance and fell onto the Barcelona contract whilst holding the pen, I am very sorry for the trouble this has caused and plan to appeal."
Gareth Fieldstead
21 Posted 11/07/2014 at 15:23:24
Are you being optimistic Tim or are you in the know? You not only expect Lukaku but an additional forward?! Very brave of you. It appeared that the Echo were already getting the first subtle hints of no cash available for the manager yesterday. I agree with you Mike, time limit of one further week and we look elsewhere. I would really like a further central midfielder and a left winger and then I would be happy with our squad. Even Arsenal are starting to buy now, yet we still have one player on a free and in talks to loan another player who can keep Gibson company in the treatment room. Rather underwhelming.
James Marshall
22 Posted 11/07/2014 at 15:46:28
Just because we haven't heard about it, doesn't mean there aren't other deals being talked about or concluded. Plus everyone saying we don't have any money - where does this information come from, other than past experience?

We paid about ٟm for Barry so he wasn't quite free by the way ;-)

Paul Tran
23 Posted 11/07/2014 at 15:50:18
Very sensible post, James. Lots of people getting het up over paper speculation, lots of people getting het up over the 'lack of activity'. I'm sure there's plenty going on that we'll never hear about and plenty going on that will end up in signings/loans.

It's hard to have an informed opinion about all of this until the season starts, or as is most likely based on previous windows, September 1st.

Raymond Fox
24 Posted 11/07/2014 at 16:36:09
I agree with Robert 14 about Traore.

I'm not doubting that he has talent, although we have not yet had the opportunity to witness, but he does have the build of a player that might be susceptible to muscle pulls!

Although having said that Peter Crouch seems to stay fit most of the time.

Chris Wilson
26 Posted 11/07/2014 at 17:05:19
Hmmm. This could be interesting. Transfer window closes September 1, at 11pm BST. Everton play Chelsea August 30. What are the odds that Lukaku becomes an Everton player on August 31 – after the Chelsea match? That's just kinda how Jose schemes things. And if we beat him, he adds an extra ٣ million.
Mike Price
27 Posted 11/07/2014 at 17:32:38
How can he leave?...didn't he register his daughter in a school?
Daniel Lawrence
28 Posted 11/07/2014 at 17:42:17
So, let me get this right; we signed Traore on loan, even though he was injured, we then spent weeks getting him fit, only for him to play about an hour and then get injured again. I assume we continued to pay his wages whilst rehabilitating him for four months whilst not playing another minute, and yet we have no agreement in place to sign him again...!

I suppose sending him back was never discussed to save paying another team's player and providing medical treatment and the associated costs...?

The Everton Way

Paul Smith
29 Posted 11/07/2014 at 17:49:55
I would not go near Traore again as we got well burnt last season and feel this is likely to occur on a regular basis. As for Lukaku I've said before give him and Chelsea a deadline of say the end of the month and if nothings sorted let them know we are moving on to other targets.

All the time waiting for a yes or no we could lose out on other targets. It is getting all to predictable this transfer window and you can see us rushing around at the end of August trying to get players in again. I for one am getting a bit fed up of this year after year.

Ged Simpson
30 Posted 11/07/2014 at 18:02:36
Probably the wrong thread but may I wish Senor Suarez adios. Sat with a knee injury today,this made me giggle. How childish I can be!
Colin Glassar
31 Posted 11/07/2014 at 18:28:19
Aren't we linked to Amanda Traore from Barcelona?
Paul Ferry
32 Posted 11/07/2014 at 18:28:46
What happened, Ged, out on a pheasant shoot and a retainer dropped the hamper on your knee? Or did one of those pesky pheasants hit back as you gave him a doubtless deserved chastising? Hope it gets better soon!

Robert Collins
33 Posted 11/07/2014 at 19:29:58
Jamie Crowley @ 15

He simply doesn’t want to play for us, in his own mind he’s a superstar and deserves a superstar club.

Jamie Crowley
34 Posted 11/07/2014 at 21:34:13
I'm starting to think that, Robert. If he doesn't want to play for us we simply need to move on and find a quality striker.

But I really wish we'd sign him...

Then I read (ESPN FC) that the RS are in for Bony.

Jeezuz it hurts sometimes, it really does.

Denis Richardson
35 Posted 11/07/2014 at 21:35:23
Maybe I'm being a bit over optimistic but I can see Lukaku coming to us next season. Reason being I just cannot imagine any major CL team coming in for him as their main striker. Athletico are being mentioned a lot but they've just signed Mandzukic to replace Costa.

No English CL team nor Spanish CL team will likely buy him which leaves Italy or Germany......of these only Bayer Levekuson would have him as their main striker but I really cannot see them putting up 20m+ to buy him. Also I'd hardly call Bayer a European power house.

So that just leaves some rich eastern European side, in this case Russian given the troubles in Ukraine. The cash may talk but if he really wants to forward his career I hardly think moving to Russia will do that.

Basically the guy either catches splinters on the bench of a top CL side or plays with us for at least another season or two. Likely we'll buy him with a buyout clause attached so he can jump ship if a 'big' club ever came in for him. I'd be happy with that tbh, buy him for around 㿀M and put a clause in for 㿏M+.

Andrew Hawes
36 Posted 11/07/2014 at 21:45:03
LetÂ’s get one thing straight! Naismith should never have and never should be considered an Everton forward! If we are serious about being a top 6 side why are we almost settling for a player that belongs in the Championship at best?

The odd goal off the bench when we are battering a team for a goal doesnÂ’t mean he is Everton quality, just another Kilbane. Name me one side in the top ten who would buy him?

An honest, hard working player yes, but come on, we apparently have aspirations of Champions League? Bony, Remy, Ba etc could take us to that extra level and thatÂ’s where we need to look. Really hope we donÂ’t become fixated about getting numbers in rather than the quality we need to build on a very good first 11 from last season.

Robert Collins
37 Posted 11/07/2014 at 21:44:52
Jamie Crowley @ 34

Being a blue 99% pain and 1% ecstasy (but an extremely addictive 1%).

His whole mindset is champions league or nothing, last season he was playing in blue, but his motivation was the blue of Chelski. With that gone and him permanently with us, I think he would be resentful and if he did play well for us, it would be to escape us (if we failed to make the top 4).

I think we have to look at a dark side Bony buy as positive considering rat boys record against us, surely Bony can’t equal that?

Robert Collins
38 Posted 11/07/2014 at 21:59:46
Denis Richardson @ 35

Good appraisal of his options and not one that he likes, hence his time wasting to see if one of these CL big boys changes their minds and goes in for him (probably because their first choices went down the pan).

It’s how much that bothers me. I have a feeling we’re about to blow a huge chunk of our wedge on a striker nobody really wants at the price.

Dennis Ng
39 Posted 11/07/2014 at 22:37:47
Would be great to have him but no silly money for him please. We need a mix of quality players coming in (or through youth) and I don't see us splashing our entire (or most of) transfer budget on him as a good idea.
Tom Bowers
40 Posted 11/07/2014 at 22:41:46
Give him a run out as RM must have been impressed with him before bringing him on loan but, much like Kone, we have to see how these guys can avoid injury next season – especially if they are the go-to target men given that Lukaku may be elsewhere.

I suspect, however, that RM may have a contingency plan with another striker in mind before September 1st.

Andy Meighan
41 Posted 11/07/2014 at 22:48:43
From what I’ve seen of Traoré, and I'll be honest here, it was only an hour, he looked poor okay. He scored but maybe he wasn’t fully fit. But I'll stick my neck out here: he won’t be the striker we’ve been crying out for...

Name me any of the sides who finished above us last season that operate with a big target man? Okay, some may say Giroud of Arsenal... and how many league goals did he score?

No I’m afraid this could be a massive mistake by us. I’m not happy with this at all... we need a more mobile skilful striker than the likes of Traoré.

As for Lukaku, IÂ’m sick to death of hearing about this fucking imposter's Champions League dream. If he wants it so badly, why doesnÂ’t he stay at Chelsea? The truth is Chelsea arenÂ’t convinced and no other Champions League club is going to come in for him. So that rather leaves the arrogant fucker in limbo, doesnÂ’t it?

Does anyone think, if he does sign for us, that his heart wonÂ’t be in it? I could just imagine him thinking "IÂ’m better than this; I canÂ’t be arsed here." Well, fuck him; I hope he doesnÂ’t sign.

There must be a young hungry striker out there who’d give his right arm to play for us – not some pretentious prick full of his own self-worth – and, if we’re honest, he’s not that good.

Harvey Miller
42 Posted 11/07/2014 at 23:17:09
We need two new good strikers to keep up. Kone wont do it, Mirallas is more like a behind the striker/winger. A target man like Lukaku at his best and a clever fast man who can score.

Well, we wont get Romelu and the other options are running dry.
I don't know who they could be ( that's why we have scouts) but we have to move fast because the other teams are on the move.

I like Martinez but sometimes his loyalty for players is amazing: two year deal for Hibbo, even if he's great example for the juniors. If Coleman gets injured, would you put Hibs there, no of course not, Stones will be there. So Hibbo into coaching!

Ant Dwyer
43 Posted 12/07/2014 at 01:35:13
IÂ’d be happy with Traore back as a loan signing; why not? HeÂ’s a goalscorer who is rated at 㾻M and we can steal a free season out of him, so great.

As for Rom, refer to Mike (19) as I feel he is spot on.

Steve Brown
44 Posted 12/07/2014 at 04:00:24
We shouldn't spend another penny on Mr Soft Tissue-Injury.
Conn Prosser
45 Posted 12/07/2014 at 03:50:25
I might be alone in saying this, but I frickin love the transfer window. Now the World Cup is all but over, the gossip and speculation is enthralling to me. Who to believe, what to believe... the paranoia of us Everton fans. The intriguing story of Lukaku has us on tenterhooks.

We don't need to sign him, there are dozens of unknowns for Martinez to uncover. Chelsea don't want to sign him – Jose un' all. He wants to sign for anybody big enough and they don't seem to want to sign him. He's kind of backed himself into a corner. The ball is well and truly in Everton's half.

I'd like to think that Roberto is playing it cool, biding his time, but hopefully not for much longer. There's a signature vacuum and it's going to be fascinating to see how it's going to be filled.

Ciarán McGlone
46 Posted 12/07/2014 at 07:34:13
Possibly one of the worst players I've seen during the games he played... Granted it was only two... but he looked comically terrible..

Made Stracq look like Neymar.

Simon Hermansen
47 Posted 12/07/2014 at 08:04:32
I know Martinez is Mr positive and in him we trust but, surely, what happened with Traore last season is one to chalk down to experience and move on from.

Lukaku would be putting all our eggs in one basket and I'm still not convinced his first touch and short passing will ever improve enough for him to be truly top drawer.

Let's start looking elsewhere and toward the youth.

John Schrempft
48 Posted 12/07/2014 at 09:08:43
Some good articles about Romelu, so the mixed messages about him are continuing from last season. Well, one could say "if in doubt, leave out".

Personally, I'd like to see him back and I agree that Roberto should bide his time, as Lukaku doesn't seem to be going anywhere until shortly before the new season starts...... He's biding his time too, by the looks of it, so it's rather like "Bargain Hunt" and who's going to blink first....

Wayne Smyth
49 Posted 12/07/2014 at 09:10:18
Simon, Martinez recently said that he's looking at 5 or 6 players to potentially step up from our youth this season. Browning, Garbutt, Lundstram, Long, McAleny seem to be the prime candidates.

Who knows if any are good enough, but I'm delighted that Roberto is planning to give them a chance in the first team.

As for Traore, all players get injured. His history of injuries is not bad, like Gibson for example, so if the terms are right, I'd have him back. Martinez obviously sees enough in him to warrant his return having worked with him.

I would take his performances with a pinch of salt. He made 2 appearances, but one was the last game at Hull when he replaced lukaku after 90 minutes. The other was a 60 minute appearance against Swansea in his first competitive match after injury in a new team in a new league....and he still scored.

Jason Broome
50 Posted 12/07/2014 at 08:41:37
Interesting posts!

Here's a thought. Roberto is NOT our former manager.

As Man Utd can testify... Moyes is gone... We dither no more... Expect signings soon!

Last year he moved quickly and signed 4 players in 8 days. He then trumped everyone and loaned Lukaku and Barry.

Last week it was assumptions and frustrations about Barry. Now Lukaku. We don't have the full story and neither does the press.

Roberto said that there wouldn't be any movement for Lukaku until after the world cup... still running... two games left!

Lukaku is on holiday (it's July... let the boy rest).

Prior to leaving for holiday he stated that rejoining us is a possibility. He obviously took his phone with him but hasn't changed his status on Twitter... good sign.

Traore did not get the time to adjust to Premier League football... yet he scored. Duncan will help him improve his heading and first touch in a very pacy league, over both pre-season and a regular season. Roberto sees something in him. That's good enough for me.

Kone, Lukaku, Traore, Naismith sounds a hell of a lot better than Beattie and Johnson or Anichebe, Jelavic, Naismith.

The past two weeks was about extending contracts and keeping what we've got... mission accomplished.

Frustrations are high for one reason... Roberto has transformed us from 'punching above our weight' to real contenders. We have opportunities that weren't there a year ago and we all want him take advantage of our ambitions.

Possibility of potentially world class youth in Besic and Lukaku, Tika Taka football, Barcelona loan yet to arrive? Fuck the Redshite! This is the Everton I've dreamed about. The stars are aligning... In Roberto I trust.

Robert Collins
51 Posted 12/07/2014 at 10:26:59
Jason Broome @ 52

Jason,

It’s not Roberto we have doubts about, it’s Billy "the badge fiasco" Kenwright we’re all worried is chucking spanners in the works.

Phil Walling
52 Posted 12/07/2014 at 10:09:14
Jason, if you have the likes of Billy Bollocks and Elstone doing the negotiations, you dither whether you like it or not!

Our Top Honchos have dithering in their blood and pride themselves on how well they do it. They had an excellent dither over re-signing Barry and were only driven to a deal when he went off to see Big Sam!

Whoever Roberto identifies, THEY will still be dithering when the clock strikes eleven on August 31st.

Jason Broome
53 Posted 12/07/2014 at 10:33:24
Robert.

Where is your proof that Bill Kenwright is involved?

Kenwright wasn't at United when Moyes dithered yet again leading to his downfall. Kenwright was however present when we signed 4 players in 8 days plus 3 quality loan signings last term.

Assumptions and speculations...

Last week it was Billy Bullshit and Barry. Then we signed Barry!

This week it's Billy Bullshit and Lukaku!

If we sign Lukaku, it will be Billy Bullshit and Messi!

Seriously mate, enjoy your day, enjoy the pre-season and let's stay positive like Roberto.

Paul Andrews
54 Posted 12/07/2014 at 10:58:01
"Where is your proof that Kenwright is involved?"

He is the chairman of the football club. If he isn't, he should be involved

Robert Collins
55 Posted 12/07/2014 at 10:51:30
Jason Broome @ 55

Remember when you were a little boy Jason and you wanted money to go the shop for sweets?

Mum said no! But then later on when you’d been a good boy she rewarded you with some money for your sweets.

There isn’t a great deal of difference between a prem clubs money box and your mothers purse, they’ll both only be opened when the time is right and the amounts seem correct.

Just like you mum, Billy has the key to the money box.

Jason Broome
56 Posted 12/07/2014 at 11:51:35
Unbelievable immaturity.

Yes Bill Kenwright is the chairman. Yes he has lied in the past. Yawn!

Attacking him now though... with yet the proof that I asked for. Is he really involved in stopping Lukaku from joining? Again I ask for evidential purposes.

I asked you for in-house knowledge and I get sweets, mums and purses. Wow!

Your knee-jerk pessimistic nervousness is unwarranted. It is July. Chill your beans.

Roberto will buy.

Paul Andrews
57 Posted 12/07/2014 at 12:07:29
Jason Broom,

It would take Jason Bourne to fathom Uncle Bill's shenanigans out.

Mike Green
58 Posted 12/07/2014 at 12:08:11
In any sensible negotiation the club and player will have their ideal scenario, their fall back position and their walk-away point.

It sounds like our offer (if there is one) isn't Lukaku's ideal scenario, or what he / Chelsea are asking isn't ours. Either way, all three parties seem happy to let it move along as it is for now but soon time will force the issue and we'll have an outcome.

Roberto knows what he's doing, I'm confident he'll get the best he can at the end of the day.

Robert Collins
59 Posted 12/07/2014 at 12:30:03
Jason Broome @ 58

When politicians say they’re going reduce unemployment, NHS waiting lists (make new treatments available), improve education and reduce immigration and crime ........etc etc.

You believe them don’t you?

Kevin Tully
60 Posted 12/07/2014 at 12:44:22
With the profits from Fellaini, Jelavic and Anichebe PLUS the 㿋m extra TV revenue, we must surely have 㿅-30m for transfers this summer.

That would leave approx. 㿀m for mortgages, 'personal loans', (I've some of that money I owe you Phil) Vibrac repayments and lawn mowers.

I'm guessing a 㿀m offer for Lukaku is on the table, plus a couple of small ١ - ٣m signings and a loan or three.

Clive Lewis
61 Posted 12/07/2014 at 13:22:46
Besic has signed?
http://talksport.com/football/everton-beat-swansea-sign-world-cup-star-140711101295
Phil Walling
62 Posted 12/07/2014 at 12:47:51
Jason,

Roberto will buy nothing! He merely identifies the targets and hands the negotiations to CEO and Chairman. (A fact often stated by BB himself!).

They will only buy 'if the price is right'. Guess that has to be the prudent way to run the Club.

Jason Broome
63 Posted 13/07/2014 at 00:32:15
Phil... I appreciate the response. Sucking eggs and all, I know this. BK gets a lot of bad press which over the years he deserves. However, even I have to give him a little credit these past 12 months.

1. He identified the right man to succeed Moyes;
2. He backed Martinez's choices (especially in the loan market) which have been thus far impressive;
3. He helped maximise the sales of Anichebe and Fellaini.

Hatred for hatred's sake is pointless. When he screws up, he deserves the rod that he built for his back. But, right now, for now, I can't see what he's done wrong.

It's been a long day at work... Have a good night.

Phil Sammon
64 Posted 13/07/2014 at 01:26:31
The fees we got for Anichebe and Fellaini are irrelevant if they are not reinvested in the playing staff. I'm an Everton fan, not a shareholder.
Patrick Murphy
65 Posted 13/07/2014 at 02:08:10
According to the Caught Offside website, a Champions League club with lots of money to burn are about to launch a 㿆m bid for Romelu Lukaku. That club is unfortunately our neighbours... Would he go there? I'm afraid he will and we can't blame the board or BK for that, can we?

Matthew Roberts
66 Posted 13/07/2014 at 02:10:08
Unbelievable!
Raymond Fox
67 Posted 13/07/2014 at 01:52:55
When it comes to judgement of players that are loans or permanent players for us, Roberto is in a much better position than us. He hasn't got much wrong yet!

There's a good few sweeping statements in this thread. Traore is the worst player they have every seen! Kone is rubbish! Naismith should be in the Championship! Obviously they're not Man City quality players, but this is Everton we support – who do you expect? Aguero... Hazard?

As far as Lukaku is concerned, I can understand some reservations about him, but I don't think that doubting his quality is a valid one. He's definitely worth a punt at his age, keep him for 2-3 years and then sell him on. If he's not worth at least 50% more than 㿀m by then I will eat my hat.

We will have another good and interesting season, but improving on last season has to be in doubt; if we can come close, I will be satisfied.

Geoffrey Caveney
68 Posted 13/07/2014 at 02:59:06
Patrick 67, do you have a link? I don't see even the rumour of Lukaku to Liverpool on the Caught Offside website.
Jamie Crowley
69 Posted 13/07/2014 at 04:05:30
I don't think he'd go across the park.

He wouldn't.... would he?

Matt Traynor
70 Posted 13/07/2014 at 04:15:59
Jamie #71, all the press reports are claiming that he wants a CL club, etc. etc. and therefore I am sure he'd have no hesitation in joining them. I'm not sure he'd do well alongside Sturridge personally.

Stranger things have happened. Tevez went to Man City from Utd, Barmby left us to go to the RS. They're footballers at the end of the day and will do what's best for them.

If he did I'd advise him to get off twitter for the foreseeable... Also the meltdown on here would be worth getting some popcorn in for.

Steve Brown
71 Posted 13/07/2014 at 05:47:14
If Liverpool spend 㿆m on Lukaku, then they will have over spent badly again. Downing, Henderson, Carroll, Adams, Allen, Lallana... that shower of British mediocrity cost 𧴰 million, while their world class global scouting network secured Sakho, Llori, Borini, Aspas, Luis Alberto for 㿞m.

Sure they struck lucky with Torres and Suarez, but they completely squander any dividend they make.

I do want Lukaku but he is not worth above 㿀m, plus if the hapless shite want to buy him it begins to make me wonder if I am right?

Matt Traynor
72 Posted 13/07/2014 at 06:16:02
Steve #73, I remember the crowing from Kopites last year, calling us Wigaton for signing players RM knew from there. (Splitting hairs, Robles was signed from Spain, and Alcaraz was a free agent). When I pointed out that Brenda had signed players he knew - shite like Allen for 㾻m, and Borini for 㾸m (and is rumoured now to be going back to Swansea for Davies) - it soon shut the gloating pricks up.

The sad thing about the RS is their commercial deals give them the bandwidth to make mistakes in the transfer market, and pay exorbitant salaries compared to us. The media never pick up on it, whereas we as fans scrutinise every signing we make and quickly judge whether it's money well spent or not.

Lyndon Lloyd
73 Posted 13/07/2014 at 07:08:49
Caughtoffside are among the least reputable of all the football transfer sites out there... to the point where we don't even bother posting their stories to the Rumour Mill page (which is really saying something!).

I'm actually surprised the BBC site are including their nonsense link between Lukaku and Liverpool in their gossip page because there can't be a shred of truth in it.

I'd give the Sunday People report today retreading the "Chelsea could look to loan Lukaku" line a similarly wide berth.

Adrian Byrne
74 Posted 13/07/2014 at 08:14:38
Lukaku wasnÂ’t even first choice for Belgium; he did score past Tim Howard but on the whole his contribution was pretty average. If we were looking at Lukaku purely based on his World Cup big platform stage, would we even take a second glance?

Traore is more of a footballer with good first touch and close control; can he stick the ball in the net? – well, only time will tell.

We have Kone coming back and he managed to get around 15 for Wigan. We shouldnÂ’t have to rely on a big centre forward for all our goals. We have Coleman and Baines and hopefully Barkley will get into double figures. Gibson has a decent shot and Barry gets forward. We have the magical Mirallas and donÂ’t forget Bryan Oviedo and John Stones.

If we get Lukaku, great... but unlike the Redshite across the park who relied so heavily on a vampire, I think Martinez will do some astute business and we will all be very happy with the outcome. Or maybe I am just deluded?

Mike Hughes
75 Posted 13/07/2014 at 09:20:11
Regarding the reputability of rumour sources, itÂ’s all relative so I take the view that Â’if it happens, it happensÂ’. Even the BBC have been tainted in recent years over their reporting.

On the other hand, nothing much surprises at the moment. Brazil getting hammered 7-1; a third vampire attack by Suarez; Rolf Harris ...

But nobody saw a Joey Barton appearance on a BBC Question Time panel coming did they?

So Lukaku to the Redshite? YouÂ’re probably right but stranger things etc.

Mike Allison
76 Posted 13/07/2014 at 09:20:54
Lyndon, is it simply that any story with Liverpool or Man Utd generates internet traffic? Both clubs seem to dominate the internet, perhaps along with Chelsea, due to huge numbers of overseas fans.
Robert Collins
77 Posted 13/07/2014 at 10:23:08
Jason Broome @ 65

Those points are all true and you’re right, he’s not all bad.

It doesn’t take away from suspicion that he’s hiding the wonga from us and his managers (at times).

John Schrempft
78 Posted 13/07/2014 at 10:08:29
Quite right, Matt (#74). As the saying goes: It's an art knowing how to earn and save money but it's also an art in knowing how to spend it. Many clubs spend like there's no tomorrow and end up with no trophies anyway...

Bill Kenwright's has made mistakes. Don't we all? However, he hasn't been doing badly lately.

3 clubs here in Switzerland have gone bankrupt and two of those have just about disappeared and that's in a country where clever financial management is the norm.....

Robert Collins
79 Posted 13/07/2014 at 10:51:36
Matt Traynor @ 74

Matt,

Brenda has the lolly and he’s spending it, but every time he goes big millions for these overpriced Shirley Temples, he buys an ego also; he has to integrate these egos. None them will come anywhere near to doing the damage Suarez did.

I’m not too worried about Brenda and her diamond encrusted purse. I take hope from World Cup, just look what Holland have achieved with Robbe & Van Persie, and mostly the rest of them mediocrity from average clubs. What Chile achieved warmed my heart; Mexico and Columbia also.

If Roberto gets five or so players in, who can fit into the squad/team (they don’t have to be big money) our system of play will make them more than they are, just like Holland, Chile etc. The whole being greater than the some of the parts!

Chin up mate!

Paul Andrews
80 Posted 13/07/2014 at 13:00:13
Well said Robert.

100% correct

Robert Collins
81 Posted 13/07/2014 at 13:18:35
Paul Andrews @ 82

If it’s any one thing Roberto has done for us, it’s to give us a system we can generally rely on; it went wrong a few times last season but generally it worked. If he gets it right with the players he brings in, it can only improve.

Remember the way we pinned Chelski back at their own ground (it was only a little lapse that did us that day)? It does work, but our biggest problem is the lesser teams who park the bus, we struggle more with them.

Paul Andrews
82 Posted 13/07/2014 at 13:31:28
I agree, Robert. We are a far better side when teams come at us.
Phil Walling
83 Posted 13/07/2014 at 13:59:26
Almost certainly to be regarded as a negative comment but not meant as such is the question as to whether teams will be very much more aware of Roberto's style when the new season gets underway?

There was evidence in the last few games of 13-14 that teams were happy for us to retain possession as our build-up was slow and ended in predictable fashion. This was especially so when Delboy was present. Pretty to watch but little final impact.

Has our man got it in his locker to vary our tactics or will possession continue to be the be-all and end-all of his thinking?

Raymond Fox
84 Posted 13/07/2014 at 14:41:57
It's not positive statement though, is it, Phil? It's a valid comment but with a dig at Martinez to end with.

I think he's intelligent enough to vary tactics to suit the differing situations. He made substitutions last season which I seem to remember that most had the desired effect.

Paul Andrews
85 Posted 13/07/2014 at 15:02:31
Rio Ferdinand,

"I made a point of meeting as many coaches and players as I could during my stay in Brazil. I met a lot of impressive people, I have to say the person who impressed me the most is the Everton manager."

In Roberto we trust.

Robert Collins
86 Posted 13/07/2014 at 15:18:50
Phil Walling @ 85 / Raymond Fox @ 86

Phil & Raymond, if you’re referring to my comment about "parking the bus", it was neither a negative comment nor a "dig" at Roberto; it was a constructive criticism.

Realism is the foundation which all progress is built upon.

I’ve no doubt what happened at the lesser teams did not go unnoticed; he may think better players same tactics will solve that problem or different tactics; either way, I expect improvement.

Lyndon Lloyd
87 Posted 13/07/2014 at 15:39:50
Mike a (78), that may be a large part of it. Stories about the obvious clubs are link-bait for a lot of outlets.
Jay Harris
88 Posted 13/07/2014 at 15:48:41
Robert (#81),

You cannot compare the World Cup to the Prem. One is a sprint, the other is a marathon.

However, even in the World Cup, the plucky teams only get so far. The best teams always prevail.

I also agree with Phil Walling that coaches have come to terms with possession football and have decided to beef up defence and have players with pace and ability to hit them on the break.

Paul Andrews
89 Posted 13/07/2014 at 15:59:05
Jay,

You will be watching one of the best possession football teams in the world later. Argentina won't attack them in numbers so will be difficult to catch on a counter.

The Germans will probably find a way to win with their tremendous movement and inter changing of positions. Done correctly, and more importantly, quickly, it is still the most effective way of winning games.

Jay Harris
90 Posted 13/07/2014 at 16:35:14
Paul,
IMO football is simple: the team that scores more goals wins most games.

Simply put, to score more goals, you need world-class strikers... and, to concede less goals, you need world-class defenders, allied to a system of playing which should vary according to the opposition, and the adaptability to change during a game.

Spain, the masters of possession football, fell on their own sword due to their insistence on "possession" football.

My definition of "possession" football is passing around for the sake of not losing the ball, as opposed to teams that may have a lot of the ball but move it with purpose and the intent of scoring.

How many games did we see last season where the team with the most possession lost the game due to the opposition defending well and hitting them on the break with clinical finishing?

Patrick Murphy
91 Posted 13/07/2014 at 16:50:11
Jay,

Spain fell on their sword because they had an aging team who couldn't do the same amount of chasing and harrying as they had done in the previous eight or so years. They won't change their system too much and they will come back again with similar-type players although they are unlikely to see such a plethora of talent as they have enjoyed in the last few years.

Paul Andrews
92 Posted 13/07/2014 at 16:57:40
Jay,

Read the last paragraph in my previous post.

Darren Hind
93 Posted 13/07/2014 at 17:19:08
Robert, Phil and Jay

Absolutely spot on. It became increasingly clear as the season went on that the smarter coaches had aquired Robbies number.

"Realism is the foundation which all progress is built upon"

Absolutely

Ian McDowell
94 Posted 13/07/2014 at 17:38:03
Patrick @ 93.

fully agree. Its not the Spanish teams system thats broken just that the ageing players couldn't physically carry out the pressing game again and who can blame them after years of success.

Jay Harris
95 Posted 13/07/2014 at 17:44:57
Ian
so you're saying that all these players are past it - LOL.

Goalkeepers: Iker Casillas (Real Madrid), Pepe Reina (Liverpool), David De Gea (Manchester United)
Defenders: Sergio Ramos (Real Madrid), Gerard Pique (Barcelona), Raul Albiol (Napoli), Javi Martinez (Bayern Munich), Juanfran (Atletico Madrid), Jordi Alba (Barcelona), Cesar Azpilicueta (Chelsea)
Midfielders: Xavi (Barcelona), Xabi Alonso (Real Madrid), Andres Iniesta (Barcelona), Koke (Atletico Madrid), Sergio Busquets (Barcelona), Santi Cazorla (Arsenal), Cesc Fabregas (Barcelona), Juan Mata (Manchester United), David Silva (Manchester City)
Forwards: Pedro (Barcelona), Diego Costa (Atletico Madrid), David Villa (Atletico Madrid), Fernando Torres (Chelsea).

The majority of these would walk into our team tomorrow.

It is not the players who aged but the system of playing.

Paul Andrews
96 Posted 13/07/2014 at 17:53:48
Any guesses which team tops the possession and amount of passes played at the World Cup?

Jay Harris
97 Posted 13/07/2014 at 18:06:55
Paul,
Spain,
.....quote from Opta related site:

"Only Spain, the inventors of tiki-taka, played more passes on a per-minute basis. The German style, much like the Spanish, focuses on short passing to keep possession. It eschews crosses from wide areas, preferring to pass the ball through the center of the defense to create chances."

Paul Andrews
98 Posted 13/07/2014 at 18:12:22
The Germans played more passes than Spain numerically.
Jay Harris
99 Posted 13/07/2014 at 18:13:45
That could be because Spain had an early exit !!

Quote re Argentina:

In contrast to Germany, Argentina has two of the seven best defensive performances in this tournament. More impressive still, Argentina's best games have come in its quarterfinal and semifinal matches. With everything on the line and facing elite opponents, Argentina has prevented superstars like Arjen Robben and Eden Hazard from creating chances over 210 minutes of soccer. These are the best defensive matches in the tournament, by the same method as above.

Let battle commence.

Paul Andrews
100 Posted 13/07/2014 at 18:15:28
3,421 passes.
The most passes of any team playing in the World Cup
Easily checked
Paul Andrews
101 Posted 13/07/2014 at 18:16:40
Jay,

So the possession game is old fashioned when Spain play it.
But isn't when Germany play it?

Robert Collins
102 Posted 13/07/2014 at 18:24:45
Jay Harris @ 90

True ones a sprint the others a marathon.

Having said that it’s still 22 blokes and a football, so a game of football does brake out at some point and there are similarities to our league at times, they’re not completely unrelated.

Robert Collins
103 Posted 13/07/2014 at 18:37:52
For what it’s worth, I believe Roberto is working on Plan B and we’ve seen the beginnings of this last season.

Him bringing Lacina Traore to us last season, was in my opinion an attempt to play the ball more quickly out of defense or long whatever way you want to phrase it. That Russian club he played for used him this way against the dark side in their Europa match very well.

I think we can expect some variation of tactics next season. Last season, Lukaku just couldn’t take the pressure of us or act as our lone striker effectively. Also, believe or not, I think Kone can do job for us as a target man (and he was a part of Roberto’s plans). RM’s plans were severely hampered by injury last season.

Paul Tran
104 Posted 13/07/2014 at 18:18:54
This little debate sums up what's wrong with English football.

Germany keep the ball very, very well, just like Spain They can move quickly and directly when they need to, unlike Spain. It's great to watch. It's taken them years to get to this stage.

I think it's what the previous manager wanted, but his teams couldn't keep the ball consistently enough.

I think it's what the current manager wants, but you have to keep the ball consistently before you do it consistently quicker. Germany/Bayern/Dortmund haven't suddenly started this. They've histoically kept the ball and nicked one, now they're more exciting and successful.

English/British players generally don't have the technique/mentality to do this under pressure when it matters. That's partially why we hit the rocks on some occasions lat season.

I think we'll do it quicker this season, but if we're going to progress we'll need some guile from the midfield to prise open the 'buses'. We'll also need tp play to the strengths of the strikers, who were often making runs that were either unseen or ignored.

Criticism's always valid, but it's more useful when it comes with solutions.....

Patrick Murphy
105 Posted 13/07/2014 at 19:29:00
It has always been the case, and it will always be the case, that talented footballers win football matches regularly. One star player can win a number of games for any team; a team laden with quality players will win more often than not.

But systems don't decide football matches on their own. They can help to tip the balance for a less-talented group of players on occasion but the talent of the team will determine the outcome, regardless of what systems are employed.

Raymond Fox
106 Posted 13/07/2014 at 18:59:44
Robert 88.

I was addressing Phil in my post; I was hopeful that Phil had turned over a new leaf and gave a balanced view, instead of being relentlessly critical/negative as far as Martinez is concerned.

Darren Hind and him are in the same boat together, there's nothing at all wrong with criticism, indeed it's needed for improvement, but when individuals are only critical, it gets bloody tiresome. Especially when we have just achieved a club record points haul for our time in the Prem.

By the way, Darren, I'm one of Roberto's biggest admirers, but I think you've taken leave of your senses if you think we have a chance of a top 4 place this season what with our 'Euro' matches and change of managers at Man Utd and Spurs.

We all live in hope of course but, as far as a top 4 success is concerned, I fear it's a vain hope.

Paul Andrews
107 Posted 13/07/2014 at 19:36:36
Even worse when it is accompanied by "I rate Roberto very highly" — after ripping the back off our manager...
Darren Hind
108 Posted 13/07/2014 at 20:45:16
It's funny how the people who admit "There's nothing wrong with criticism, indeed it's needed for improvement," are the ones who scream the loudest every time somebody post the slightest criticism of Martinez.

Criticism isn't only needed for improvement, it's also needed for balance in the face of total sycophancy. One of these days, you're going to have to accept that some of this criticism is valid.

Raymond,

You constantly tell us we are showing massive improvement under Martinez... yet whenever you talk about our chances next season, you always, always, always want to talk us down a few places... the irony is completely lost on you.

You've complained all season that Martinez should be given time as it is his "first season". Yet you talk about Spurs and Man Utd having a new manager as if its an advantage?

I see lots of flaws in Martinez, but I have more faith in him than you do... if we "improve" at the rate you predict we will be back facing relegation battles in no time.

You either rate the guy or you don't, but stop making excuses before a ball is even kicked.

Raymond Fox
109 Posted 13/07/2014 at 21:40:07
Darren your putting words in my mouth, where did I say 'we have shown massive improvement' or 'Martinez should be given more time'.
More money, numerous times, but never more time.
Your throwing brown stuff in the hope some will stick!

Just have a look at your past posts, every one a has a negative/critical slant to it.
You only come up with any praise when you have been pulled up by members for continually cribbing Martinez.

As far as rating Roberto is concerned, of course I rate him, he'll go to the very top, no doubt in my mind I said that very early in his tenure.
He does not take to the field of play though, and I think even you will admit he is ultimately limited by the quality of his squad.

Your point about me talking the team down, bollocks I'm not looking for excuses, I'm examining the facts as they stand at present, we haven't got as good a squad as last season yet, although that might change before long.
We have the extra Euro games and the disruption to our domestic competitions that they will cause, not to mention more possible injuries through more matches.
Then we have Utd who will almost certainly will be better than their last seasons pts total + Spurs cant foul up again this season can they!

Its making an assessment Darren.

Paul Andrews
110 Posted 13/07/2014 at 22:39:42
I'll give you that Raymond.
Always,always,always does.
Darren Hind
111 Posted 14/07/2014 at 04:08:17
Raymond

I did as you suggested and had a look at my previous posts - what an eye opener. Yes you are right I have been critical, but I looked at maybe a dozen post and after every single one of them,Paul Andrews was the first to respond ( check it out )
Then I look at the speed at which you jumped onto Phil Wallings perfectly legitimate post #85 and your subsequent attack on him #108 and I it confirms everything I have always said. You guys simply cannot tolerate even the mildest of criticism Martinez. You act like self appointed TW criticism police. You do realise this site invites all opinion don't you?

Do you really want to log on and read articles like "Bobby's brown shoes" every day ? What makes you think, you can attack other posters because they see things differently, or see things you simply refused to see or acknowledge.

IMO Martinez is a very promising manager who did a decent job, last season. No more, no less, I believe if he had done anywhere near as well as people claim, we would be playing CL football this year.
In the race for 4th, this group of players got their noses in front in the final strides, as far as I'm concerned They have proved they are good enough to have another crack at it.

You clearly want to make life easy for Martinez, rather than challenge him, you will be only too happy to provide a list of excuses why we shouldnt challenge.
By talking up Man U and Spurs, before their managers have taken charge of a game, ignoring the fact that the shite have
lost Suarez, you act like Martinez is being asked to climb the North face of the eiger in his nack - He isn't, we just want him to continue the improvement we have shown for the past three years.

You may think I'm being negative, but I 'm the one who thinks Martinez will make a very good fist of delivering on his promise to get us into CL . . .and your the one who says we have no chance

Doesnt stack up does it ?

Paul Andrews
112 Posted 14/07/2014 at 06:15:35
Morning Darren,
Me again.
To be fair your posts do invite a quick response.

Just a couple of points.
We did not get our noses in front "in the final strides"in the race for fourth.

"We want him to continue the improvement of the last 3 years" rather gives your game away.

Darren Hind
113 Posted 14/07/2014 at 06:27:46
Good Morning Paul

Literally laughed out loud when you responded. I work crazy shifts and post at some ungodly hours (except daytime).

How come you are always there? You either suffer from insomnia or you live abroad.

Paul Andrews
114 Posted 14/07/2014 at 06:51:44
Hi again Darren.

Thank you for your prompt reply.

I almost feel it is my duty to point out the inaccuracies you post to suit your argument.
With the greatest of respect to you,one can't just post falsehoods to enhance their argument.
You do it repeatedly.

Anyway happy to see I made you lol on a Monday preparing for your shift work.

Matt Traynor
115 Posted 14/07/2014 at 06:48:44
Darren #115, or could be an insomniac living abroad...

For my 2 penneth, I think RM knew what he was signing up to when he joined. To be fair, he'd overseen a radical cost-cutting exercise at Wigan which probably precipitated their fall from the Prem, and even under our finances he was going to have more wriggle room.

I think we've fallen short the last few seasons when we've failed to strengthen in January. Last season we shot ourselves in the foot doing our major transfer business on deadline day. But overall last season the end product was a lot better than we'd seen in a long time, and a small injury-affected squad played a big part in seeing us finish 5th rather than 4th.

The signs are promising, but I think for us to finish 4th, as well as RM and the team to up the game a notch or two, we'll need a couple of teams above and around us to have collective shitters. I recall how truly fucking dreadful we were in the 2nd half of the season in 2005, but luckily a great run of points in the first half of the season, and the ineptitude of the chasing pack, saw us over the line for 4th - even with a negative goal difference.

Raymond Fox
116 Posted 14/07/2014 at 07:13:09
Darren, I don't want to repeat my post 111 and my other posts in the thread.

My main point is that you and Phil are continually critical come what may! You both thought Roberto wasn't up to the job before he took over and because you have been proved wrong you both are determined to talk him down.

'Where all people think alike, no-one thinks very much.' I agree with that, but lets have a few more positive posts from you also, he can't be that poor can he?

Phil Walling
117 Posted 14/07/2014 at 09:15:09
Just as it was in Moyes's early years, it is seen as a sin to make the faintest comment that can be viewed as critical.

No, Raymond, I don't think Roberto 'is that poor' and was delighted at the start he made here. But I won't hail him as 'the greatest' on the evidence of one season and some pretty cheesy soundbites!

Chris Leyland
118 Posted 14/07/2014 at 11:08:10
Paul Andrews: in your spat above with Darren Hind you state that "I almost feel it is my duty to point out the inaccuracies you post to suit your argument.With the greatest of respect to you,one can't just post falsehoods to enhance their argument."

In a previous post you also state that "we did not get our noses in front "in the final strides"in the race for fourth" in response to Darren's earlier post.

So, in the interests of ensuring that people don't just post inaccuracies to suit their argument.....

After both Everton and Arsenal had played 33 games each, Everton were in 4th place in the league and Arsenal in 5th place. So, with 5 games out of a 38 game season to play which is 87% of the season gone (some might say this could be seen as approaching "the final strides") Everton led the race for 4th place (some might also say this means that Everton had "their noses in front")

Paul Andrews
119 Posted 14/07/2014 at 12:18:58
Chris,

I almost feel it is my duty to point out to you I was on the wind, but won't bother as you didn't seem to notice the obvious.

Still 15 points to play for at that stage, so not final stages at all.
As our neighbours will tell you.

David Ellis
120 Posted 14/07/2014 at 12:36:28
Patrick 107 - actually I think the reverse is true. One star player can tip a game. But the system is key over the long haul. Overall quality of players is of course key, but as long as the difference is narrow enough I think that the system can be decisive. The question is how big a gap in quality can a good system bridge? I think our overall quality is close enough to the top 6 for us to compete with them and get in the top 4, IF we have a superior system.

For the first time in a while I think we may have. The most important moves in football are off the ball. Something that is lost in the TV age and You Tube videos.

David Ellis
121 Posted 14/07/2014 at 13:00:07
And back to the OP - I thought Traore looked awful when he played for us. Did someone say Lukaku had poor control - Traore makes him look like Puskas.
Phil Walling
122 Posted 14/07/2014 at 13:04:38
Agree, David. Never have so many keystrokes been wasted over so useless an article.
David Ellis
123 Posted 14/07/2014 at 13:06:36
Phil - glad we agree on something Phil!
Jamie Barlow
124 Posted 14/07/2014 at 13:30:19
It's a good job we got a good look at the lad isn't it?

What was it, 63 minutes?

Phil Walling
125 Posted 14/07/2014 at 13:48:00
Quite enough for me. A paid-up member of the Bernie and Brett Club if ever I saw one!
Raymond Fox
127 Posted 14/07/2014 at 14:04:43
Phil, it's not just the faintest comment, it's every bleeding comment!

As I said earlier, in Martinez's first season we attain a record number of points for our time in the Prem and yet you continue to find fault with the system, and this that and the other!

Of course you predictably think Traore is rubbish after playing all of 63 mins, the implication being that Martinez can't tell the difference between a good and bad player.

Stop being a pain in the arse and give a balanced view sometimes.

Jim Knightley
128 Posted 14/07/2014 at 14:30:04
I know it's not on topic... but Man Utd just agreed a 10-year kit deal with Adidas for 𧾦mil. Aren't we on ٢ million or something? I know they are far 'bigger', but it's beyond depressing to find out that a club below us in the Premier League will be earning over 𧽴 million more from a deal than we are in the next decade. They will be back in the top four within 2 seasons (max).
Jamie Crowley
129 Posted 14/07/2014 at 14:34:14
My God that's depressing. $700 million just to wear their shit!

How much $$ does Adidas make annually to make it possible to "advertise" by splashing ManUre $700 million to don their emblem???

I'm sick to my stomach. We really did miss a massive opportunity last season and why do I feel like that door is closing...?

Kevin Tully
130 Posted 14/07/2014 at 14:41:32
Jim - Utd are raking that money in from Adidas, the manufacturers of the shirt. As far as I am aware, we don't receive a penny off Umbro, as with Nike the season before.

Our ٢-5m per season is from Chang, I don't know how much Utd are making from Chevrolet.

Patrick Murphy
131 Posted 14/07/2014 at 14:39:40
Jamie whilst it is very depressing that Everton FC have no real income from sponsors / shirt manufacturers and the like it wasn't last season when these errors of judgement were made but 15 - 20 years ago when for some reason the club decided to play second-fiddle to their peers and rather than realise the fact, they seem to have adopted "it'll never last" attitude to the whole shebang.

We are Everton FC and we'll stick to our 19th century principles and if we don't see another trophy at least we will remain Everton FC. In one way that's a virtue but in another its short-sighted and will only result in Everton FC falling further and further behind those clubs that we used to be bracketed with and trying to catch-up with them will probably take a Billionaire to kick-start the club or the major sponsors falling out of love with Football - neither of those events are likely to happen in the foreseeable future.

Phil Walling
132 Posted 14/07/2014 at 14:47:38
Raymond, just because a popular manager signs a player it doesn't necessarily indicate he's a star or that we should refrain from comment.

Roberto got it just right with Barry, McCarthy and Lukaku. less so with Kone and Alcaraz and, imho, wrong with Traore and Robles.

It's the same with all managers - signings are either good bad or in-between. It's never been a sin to state your view.
If they are all great in your view that's OK with me but I don't have to agree with you.

Jim Knightley
133 Posted 14/07/2014 at 14:55:47
Shit Kevin, that's even worse. I've conflated the two. I'm sure United get 50mil a season from Chevrolet tpp.

It's appalling that we lag so far behind, and we've only managed to remain competitive because our management has made sound investments and profits from player trading in general (And we've appointed good managers), whereas other clubs in this division have dealt poorly.

I wonder who/how many are responsible for this state of affairs? Obviously Kenwright, but this goes much deeper. We will not realistically be competitive with United/City etc, but we should be alot nearer than we are.

Ray Roche
134 Posted 14/07/2014 at 15:07:48
Want to read something really depressing about sponsors?

http://www.manutd.com/en/Club/Sponsors.aspx

Kevin Tully
135 Posted 14/07/2014 at 15:07:19
Jim - Last season Spurs managed to negotiate an extra ٤m to wear AIA on their shirt for all their cup matches. It's shrewd marketing like this which sets other clubs apart.

Is Mr Elstone our CEO because he will keep quiet? Or alternatively, is he someone who can elevate the club to greater commercial success?

Wyness left because he had to report to Green in London; maybe Elstone is happy just to be there, no matter who is running the show?

Darren Hind
136 Posted 15/07/2014 at 04:50:36
Chris Leyland,

Yes most people would consider 5 games to go, as the final strides, but tis guy will ague semantics all day long in his desperation to counter any sort of criticism of the manager.

I liken him to my sister and her friends when we used to tell them the "horrible truth" . . . that Donny Osmand wasn't perfect.
I always have this image of Paul sticking his fingers in his ears when he hears even the mildest of criticism against The Martinez – "la la lar lar liar liar"

Legitimate criticism of Martinez and "falsehoods" are one and the same thing to Paul. He can't or won't believe that anything other than gushing praise can possibly be true.

If he had any examples of outright lies told about Martinez, he would not have been able to get them up there quick enough; he hasnt, he wont... he can't.

Raymond

Your tiresome old "just admit you were wrong" argument just got even more tiresome. You will not find a post from me saying I didn't want Martinez, nor one that claimed I didn't think he was up to the job. You simply made that up to back up your argument. I wanted Martinez, and whilst I think he's done okay, I have been disappointed with various aspects of his management since he was appointed.

I have said quite a few nice things in support of Martinez, but you choose not to see those; does that tell you something?

That said, I have never heard you (or Paul) utter the slightest criticism against him, not ever – feel free to show me the post if I'm wrong. You even agreed and jumped to the defence of a guy who was being panned by all, for his OTT article praising him.

Perhaps you should look to your own totally one-eyed views before calling for other people to "give balance views sometimes"

Matt

totally agree with the last paragraph in your post.

Paul Andrews
137 Posted 15/07/2014 at 06:13:04
You should look for a job with decent hours.
This one is making you jumpy.
Matthew Williams
138 Posted 15/07/2014 at 15:35:58
FFS, Bobby move on. Try looking around for someone better and fitter like Vossen!
Chris Perry
139 Posted 15/07/2014 at 22:45:10
Well, here we are again some 6 years since we were told by Bill Kenwright to "Watch this space". I am still watching, but still waiting to say "Wow!".

In this time, I have seen Big Den come and go... Royston just go... Gibson come... Bily come and go. I'm still waiting for the "wow"!!!!!

Will it ever come to Everton? After all, the Redshite have only spent 㿨 million!!


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