Young players set to step up

But at least Bill is a blue... etc, etc.

Let's just hope he doesn't choose a wet windy night in Leeds for them to demonstrate just how far off first team quality they are. That experience did for a few young worthies a couple of years ago!

Either of those things will absolutely guarantee that we lose any ability to try and negotiate decent prices for the targets we do have!

If Martinez says "You know what... maybe we have a few kids we can bring through," maybe a few players' agents see a deal for their guy drifting away from them. Maybe that's a good thing?

Nail on the head

You're simply not allowed to talk about anything else without some permanent whinger bringing it back to same thing we've read a million times before.

We get it guys, we get it, but this thread was about five young players who may be given an opportunity in the first team. That's usually considered a good thing.

Only you and post 3 mention Kenwright?
Nobody else.

Can we just be positive for a while and get behind the team? Bill is not leaving any time soon so what's the point in keeping moaning about him? Let's take a leaf out of Martinez's book and look forward with enthusiasm?

[Rant over.]

And I'm not really talking about this particular thread, I'm talking about pretty much every thread on ToffeeWeb.

A nice fluff piece about five young players having a chance this season and four of the first five comments have a dig at our transfer policy.

The chairman and board deserve all the criticism they get, by the way, for the way they have conducted transfer business over the years.

The phrase 'its like a new signing' itself is on almost every thread, certainly every one that mentions an injured player.

I'm not even debating the board or transfer policy, I'm just saying I'm bored of seeing the same stuff over and over again by people who seem to be under the illusion that they are either interesting, intelligent or amusing.

A friendly suggestion.

Don't read it.

I do agree with your cautious view. This is the first time I read anything about players coming through ready, especially we have no chance of seeing them in action in our very competitive league until August.

Why should we spend money on a foreigner when we might have the answer to our problem under our nose? It's basic common sense.

Phil(4) - I think you'll find that the game against Leeds said more about OFM and his lack of trust in young players, than it did about the ability of the players that played.

Thankfully Martinez to have far more willingness to let young players get experience, learn and improve, even if they sometimes do make mistakes. Its the only way we can compete with clubs that can spend 𧴜m every transfer window.

Its like people moaning last season about us loaning players. Those loans got us 㿞M+ of talent we could not afford and pushed us to within a whisker of a CL place. I'm glad RM is manager of the club and not some of the people posting on this forum.

The season starts in August and Oviedo will not be fit until September which may actually be October. Gibson and Kone are both coming off long injuries and are unknowns as far as I am concerned, fitness-wise. Pienaar is another coming back from injury so our squad is seriously depleted and even weaker than last season.

So far, other clubs in the Premier League have signed lots of 'name' players whilst we are supposedly considering bids or talking about them! Bojan is available from Barcelona on loan and our manager is supposedly well in with that clubs boardroom, but we are not in the frame for him. It is five weeks before our first league game and we continue to fanny about!!

This is not a moan – it is a genuine concern considering we are playing three of the top teams in the first 6 matches. Garbutt is impressive and that is a plus, but the lad is a left full back. I am getting pissed off yet again with this club's tardiness.

I'd been hoping he'd get another chance, pulling for the kid, but it seems the writing may indeed be on the wall.

I'm sure Martinez has his targets this year and is aware of who he needs. I'd rather he wait to get the ones he's after rather than make rushed purchases or overpaying just to appease fans who lack patience.

Gueye and Vellios made no impact on our squad last season, they are not a loss, but deadwood off our wage bill. We're short of a winger and a striker and I've every confidence that Martinez will get the right players in.

We need to bear in mind that we're not flush with cash. I reckon we could afford to put in a 㿊M bid for Lukaku pay him a fortune and get him in, leaving nothing in the pot for other signings. I'm sure that would please some here because we'd done "something".

However I think Martinez is quite shrewd. There aren't actually that many more desirable destinations for Lukaku at the moment. Interest in him may stay cool and it's entirely likely we'll either sign him for closer to 㿀M or get him on a loan again.

Not only that, but other players will become available for much better value near the end of the transfer window, when players are more desperate to move and clubs more desperate to sell.

Duffy was mentioned in other publications that carried the full quote. RM said "and Shane Duffy although he's in a different category." Take that as you will but I assume he means Duffy has more experience than the others but has to prove he has a future at Everton. The others are neither assured of a professional career here on anywhere else -- yet. He did fail to mention Connor Grant who he took on the pre season US tour last year or Ledson who made the first team squad near the end of the season. George Green is 19 now too but seems to have slipped off the radar as does Hallam Hope who did better out on loan than Long.

t... that's all he needs to tell us and definitely all he should tell us.

Those who are whining about the pace of signings are unreal. You can make signings happen quickly... you throw boatloads of cash at them. We need to get the most out of the pot we have so that's not an option is it?

Bojan? Maybe we've left him for Stoke because Martinez doesn't think he'd improve us? Not because the club are somehow unable close a deal for him?

Really hate this time of year... out trot the idiot football journalists and the hordes of equally dense fans who lap up their crap.

● Lukaku must be given an ultimatum
● Barry is too old for a 3-year contract
● Kenwright is pocketing money from the club
● Why weren't we in for Bojan?
● Martinez should not have been 'moonlighting' for ESPN in Brazil

Complete twaddle... but there's no stopping it, it seems.

Fortunately for me Michael, I've not said any of the 4 points you mentioned :)

I assume on the basis of what Bobby says in the OP that we get this twaddle from Bill Gall on the Besic thread - 76:

After watching this player in the World Cup and taking in his age the fee of ٢m does not seem overly expensive so I take it that Mr Martinez is going to prefer as he states young players at the club’.

Unbelievable isn’t it! Talk about journos twisting words and making them mean something they were never meant to mean!

Bobby has never once said that his preference is for young players over incoming yet eagle-eyed Gall tells us all that he has actually ’stated’ it!

Words from the gaffer’s mouth meant to encourage youngsters that in the same set of observations clearly ’states’ in Gall’s words that ’he wants to bring in four players’.

Unbelievable codswallop from our Gally and it sort of leaves you wondering how and why on earth would he serve up this hogwash in the first place? My Bobby radar is pinging and we might have another one of those curmudgeons on board.

Anyway, a straight question to Gally: Gally can you please show me one place anywhere where our gaffer ’states’ that he ’prefers’ home-grown talent to bringing in new players? Just one, that’s all I ask.

Football is a mirror of life, whether your a fan, player, coach or chairman. You can plan all you want, but you still have to take what is meant to be.

Should be another interesting season, so buckle up and enjoy the ride.

Also, as the pundits kept pointing out, too many touches when going forward doesn't work any more. Will Roberto return with a new strategy?

Did you really read my "I'm bored of seeing the same old comments" as "We must silence dissent and stand behind our glorious chairman?"

Please read Wayne's opening paragraph (#24). That's what I was saying, I thought I spelt it out pretty clearly in #16. Actually, Wayne's post #28 is an excellent summation of my own position here.

Kieran, I've only just done a brief check but aren't the other players you mention a year or two younger than the ones on the original list? The list in the OP are about 20-21 and the others 18-20, and I think are/were in different 'years' in the academy.

Are you suggesting that Roberto will see his observation of this fact as a reason to change the style he took all last season to indoctrinate into his players' minds and mode of play?

However, I think the possession game is a foundation, and can be built on. For example, when his Wigan hammered us 3-0, they did it with quick incisive moves from when they gained possession, not by passing it around for five minutes first.

Roberto knows this, and I think our game will develop a bit with players expected to make decisions about when to strike early and when to settle in and control the game.

Some of these lads in the youth set-up could be very good players so by hopefully bringing back Lukaku and signing two or three other quality players of similar age but around the ٠-4M price mark and a loan like the player being linked from Barça then these lads will get chances.

Martinez doesnÂ’t want players to make up the numbers if theyÂ’re not as good as the reserves. I think he is focussing on fewer who can make the difference at a certain age so they progress together and build for a great future.

Not being local, I've not had the opportunity to watch any of the young players actually play, apart from 30 second highlights of the U21s on the club site. I've not a clue about the talent level of any of the young lads mentioned above.

I read a lot about the rebirth of the School of Science. Surely that must mean development and promotion from within the club. Along with intelligent use of the transfer window, it can only make us stronger.

With regard to the ongoing row on here, my interpretation was this: RM has money to spend but wants to give the youngsters a chance to impress before he spends. Why buy if you don't need to? Unless you're Alan Hansen and believe you can win nothing with kids.

The Lukaku situation seems to be in the player's court as both he and RM have said. The Bosnian guy? Well that doesn't bode well for Lundstram as we'd be overloaded with defensive midfielders but if he'll improve us then it's good news. Traore? Seemed like we had a deal in place to bring him back but could have been disrupted when Monaco sacked Ranieri seeing as he wasn't a Traore fan. Most of the other transfer rumors seem like nonsense.

With regard to style, we did the tica taca at Arsenal but in the return game at Goodison we adapted to a more direct, powerful German style approach. RM is no muppet. He does adapt and learn. He's not going to impose one game plan and stick to it for 10 years.

They were only ahead because the older lads were out on loan playing actual first team football, as opposed to sitting on our bench and 'getting the feel' for match-day in the first team. It seems Martinez has a development plan which involves at around 18-19 you may be involved with our squad, but you won't play, around 20-21 you go and play regular first team football for someone else, and the five in the OP have now done that, so are at a 'make or break' stage.

If I'm reading this right, then loans for the older five would be a backward step, and they should expect to be involved with us if they're good enough, or leave permanently if they're not (Duffy is another year older by the way, but Martinez wasn't here when he would have done the first loaning bit).

The younger players you've mentioned are now at the age when Martinez wants them to play League One or Championship football for a season before coming back to be involved with us next season. I'm only going off one season here, so it's hard to know if this is a pattern, but it makes sense to me.

Interesting to note that the older youngsters (so to speak) are roughly the same age as Lukaku.

Welcome back to TW, Harold!

Even if this is just PR fluff it's good fluff that makes the youngsters feel good, suggests to the world we might not be so desperate to sign others and gives the club a bit of a fillip.

If it's not (as I hope) PR fluff then we can look forward to seeing a generation of homegrown lads who we've invested in and who already know/are known by the club coming through together and setting us up for a bright future.

This is FAR preferable to me a whole host of reasons (economic, patriotic and ethical) than simply buying in expensive external talent. I'd love to see them all given a proper chance.

The only breakthrough we have had from the academy recently is Barkley who was identified from a very young age as an outstanding player.

Yes it is good to develop our own players but very few of them ever make it because there is a chasm between youth levels and the Premiership which is a bridge too far for so many.

Until the structure in football changes to allow youngsters to progress to Prem levels we will only ever see the outstanding youngsters make it.

If anyone seriously thinks any of the 5 players mentioned will help us next season they are in for a rude awakening.

I am also bored by so many threads turning into "we'll never get anywhere without a new owner" mantra. It may be true but it's dull (and depressing) and does not add to my total sum of knowledge (or anyone else's).

Adding to the list of euphemisms for this point are comments like "All we need now is for the board to back Roberto"..."We just need the board to get their finger out..." But we know and understand our financial constraints right? So does Roberto. This is not going to change anytime soon. Accept it or not – it's up to each individual but please don't bore us witless by keeping on about it. What next... it's cold and wet in the winter?

Spot on Phil - 52 - and can I echo new romantic Kev Tully - 44 - in welcoming good old Harold Matthews back with warn open arms! Looking forward to many more Matthewsians in months and years to come.

Only 33 days to go and counting.

"I'm not even debating the board or transfer policy, I'm just saying I'm bored of seeing the same stuff over and over again by people who seem to be under the illusion that they are either interesting, intelligent or amusing."

My Response to that - "Mike, the statement "like a new signing" came from the club itself. It's been used over and over by the club itself during many barren transfer windows."

The Board and Club created the statement not the fans you seem to be so disgruntled with

Your quotation of "We must silence dissent and stand behind our glorious chairman?" - you simply can't have it both ways Mike, you blame folk coming on here using that phrase as if it garners a chuckle or shows some higher level of wit they have created themselves - exhibit 1 again your honour - The Board and Club created that very phrase you are so upset about seeing.

Your post claimed the moral high ground and subsequent hissy fits don't regain that high ground for you.

As long as those kids introduced aren't en masse at the risk of doing a Villa with too many youth at once with no older players to help and guide them and when they make mistakes as all players do they are managed and not discarded Gollum style to rot in the reserves or lower leagues a la Barkley (more so when senior players made equally as bad mistakes and stayed in the squad)

The young players should be encouraged and given the chances in pre-season to see if they can adapt to the harder regime of the Premiership, and bring something to the table.

The other concern I have, and I know most of it is probably journalistic twaddle, which has little or no substance, is that we only seem to be getting 'linked' with midfielders.

It is glaringly obvious we do need a striker or two, and some defensive reinforcements!

And people saying "don't read it" in response to Mike's reply aren't worth replying to – I think we are entitled to read threads that were originally not supposed to be anything with the usual Board moans.

This simply will not happen if we do not adequately replace Lukaku and Deulofeu, whilst the clubs around us are snapping up talent that will at the very least give them more options in the new season. Roberto is a great man-manager but he is not a wizard.

I wasn't particularly trying to gain any moral high ground, I'd call it the bored ground. I can't read a different thread, because the same stuff gets said on every thread no matter what it starts off being about. In some cases you can see why, as the issue in the OP may be linked to a lack of investment in the team which comes back to the board. Kevin Tully has started just such a thread comparing our squad to others in the top 4/5 of the league.

However I really don't think that was the case on this thread, which is about our youth development. So to crowbar in yet more criticism/whinging about the same old thing even here just seems ridiculous to me.

On the matter in hand, I'm not of the opinion that any of the five lads mentioned will be a Stones or a Barkley but I'm sure they can perform in the lesser games in the Europa League.

Browning and Garbutt will probably feature in full back areas in some games and McAleny may be an option off the bench.

Also, a lad who has not been mentioned is Hallum Hope and I'd say he's the most likely of the youngsters to come through although he has not been mentioned. Hope is quick and has a decent knack of scoring goals; he's also able to play in a number of positions around the front line. We lack pace in our first team so he may be the one to watch.

As for the youngsters: unless we are hit by another hamstring crisis, it's difficult to see where they will get a chance. We'll just have to wait and see.
Dave Whelan reckons that the most important thing about going after a player, especially a goalscorer, is to keep your mouth tightly shut. This, I believe is what Roberto is doing right now. False trails and smokescreens with the real fishing net being hauled in out of view. Loans maybe, but if they perform as well as Lukaku, Barry and Deulofeu I won't complain.

As for signing someone on a permanent contract, that's a hard one. Looking at the Wigan lads and McGeady, he's not too keen on giving long contracts to strangers.