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Martinez unlikely to sign cover for Barkley

by | 19/08/2014  Comments (140)  jump
'The significant moves and signings have been made'

Roberto Martinez has dampened expectations that he will be dipping into the transfer market again before the transfer window closes, either to add to his strike-force or to bolster his options in the wake of Ross Barkley's injury.

The loss of Barkley to a medial knee ligament injury leaves Everton short of a key creative influence in the final third of the pitch but when asked if he was planning to bring in cover for the 20 year-old's position, the Catalan said:

I don't think I will. Ross has been very flexible and played that number 10 position and the number eight position. But in midfield we have James McCarthy, Gareth Barry, Mo Besic, Darron Gibson which is good cover.

Then in number 10 Steven Naismith can play that role, Leon Osman can and even Steven Pienaar can play there as well as Kevin Mirallas. I don't think, even in the short term, you can replace Ross Barkley. We need to do it within the squad and help eachother in the group to perform week in week out while Ross is out."

Though his rhetoric is very much like his public statements last January following the arrivals of Aiden McGeady and Lacina Traore when Jindrich Stanek was the only further addition, Martinez did leave the door ajar for some late business, albeit very slightly.

Every day while the window is open, as a football club we always work in the same manner, he continued. But the truth is that now the focus goes into the players that we have in the squad and we are really happy with not just the quality that we have but also the numbers that we have.

The window is the window. If there is anything that we feel could help the players that we have, then the Club will always try to do it.

But, at the moment, the significant moves and signings have been made and now it's time to work with the team and make sure we interact together and we develop into as good a team as we can be.  

Reader Comments (140)

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Jack Okell
1 Posted 20/08/2014 at 00:48:52
On the subject of Stanek

Between him and Robles....well.

Harold Matthews
2 Posted 20/08/2014 at 01:45:26
Jack. I've wasted 10 minutes with vine and got nothing. Why can't you just spell it out. Between Stanek and Robles what???
Si Cooper
3 Posted 20/08/2014 at 02:05:30
Hopefully downplaying things so we don't get exploited by selling clubs thinking we are desperate.

I thought we were still one or two players short of being really robust in terms of numbers even before Barkley's injury, so I will be disappointed if nobody else is added.

Did the Henen deal come to anything yet and what about Traore? I suppose only one would be considered to be of a immediately significant nature.

Denver Daniels
4 Posted 20/08/2014 at 02:11:05
Wow..............."we'll go with what we've got" Roberto-style!

Plus one then from last season. And who knows how long before Gibson breaks down again.

So much for squad depth.

Terry Murphy
5 Posted 20/08/2014 at 02:19:08
Si #3
Yeah? What's happening with Henen? Where's Glassar when you need him?
Kieran Riding
6 Posted 20/08/2014 at 02:27:33
Ross saw specialists at the weekend.
Must have gone well.
Chris Jones
7 Posted 20/08/2014 at 02:29:32
Harold, Stanek made a couple of howlers in the U21 game; firstly he sliced a clearance backwards into his own net and later tried to dribble a ball past some attackers, got caught in possession and gave away a penalty - from which they scored. You have to feel sorry for the kid. I only hope that the media/social media attention doesn't wreck his confidence.
Kristian Boyce
9 Posted 20/08/2014 at 02:52:51
So the need of 6-7 he was quoted in needing, went out of the window with spending big on Lukaku. With no more coming in, can't really see a successful run in Europe with a tiny squad.
Harold Matthews
10 Posted 20/08/2014 at 02:59:11
Cheers Chris. Plenty of time. He's only just 18.
David Ellis
11 Posted 20/08/2014 at 03:14:16
Compared to the end of the last summer transfer window we are plus two senior players - McGeady and Besic. I think we do have enough cover for Barkley for the first half of the season. My only real concern is that we have no real cover for Lukaku. Kone is there in theory, but after such a long injury who knows how useful he will be. I do think we need one more loan to cover Lukaku, at least until we know at what level Kone can play.

Harold Matthews
12 Posted 20/08/2014 at 03:31:34
Kone is a different type of player to anyone on our books. As Martinez pointed out recently, he understands the way his team-mates play and moves in a manner which opens things up. I've seen him do it. Movement is his forte. Fergie used to say the same thing about Forlan at United but the fans never understood and forced him out.
Jason Heng
13 Posted 20/08/2014 at 04:47:53
Hard to see how Kone can make a difference with his movement when he hasn't even made it to the bench for almost a year
Darryl Ritchie
14 Posted 20/08/2014 at 05:27:00
I can’t see where the size of our squad is any larger this season than it was last season. The injured players are starting to filter back, but as they become match ready, others are going to go down.

Don’t get me wrong. The squad we have is class. I just worry about the size, going into Europe, the League and the Cups.

Roberto is on record saying we need 5 or 6 additional EPL quality players to compete at all competions.

I don’t see them!

Tahir Abdullah
16 Posted 20/08/2014 at 05:51:56
"....leaves Everton short of a key creative influence in the final third of the pitch..." is stretching it a bit. The only creativity that Ross exhibited last season was when playing for himself; his absence for the next however many games will not be significant to the teams performances at all. RM has it spot on regarding the ability of our other midfielders; more than capable of doing a better job than Ross
Mark Pierpoint
17 Posted 20/08/2014 at 06:12:16
Probably agree with Roberto. In the short term I think we need some cover for Lukaku, but other than that we should be fine. We can always revert to a 433 with Besic taking Barkley's place or a fluid 532 with John Stones as a third CB.

As others mention the problem comes if Lukaku picks up a knock as who knows when Kone is going to be 'match ready'

Darren Hind
18 Posted 20/08/2014 at 06:23:20
I'm actually with Martinez on this one.

We knew he was probably blowing the entire warchest on Lukaku, but we still rejoiced at the news and we knew there was always a possibility/probability that a key player would be injured.

Shit happens. You can either bleat about it or go with what you've got.

I'm pleased to see the boss is going for the second one.

Kunal Desai
19 Posted 20/08/2014 at 06:43:54
Where is the creativity in midfield? and most certainly cover for Lukaku. We need atleast 2 more players, surely there is funds left over for loan fees.
Danny Broderick
20 Posted 20/08/2014 at 07:07:15
It looks like we've lost a load of money down the back of the sofa again. 㿀 million profit last season from Anichebe, Fellaini and Jelavic. Plus a record TV deal, and we've bought Lukaku (paid for over 5 years) and Besic for ٢ million. Now we are trotting out the old 'we're happy with what we've got!' Same every year...
Jim Bennings
21 Posted 20/08/2014 at 07:25:50
Our squad is not big enough to challenge for a Champions League slot.

The worrying thing is we never looked any better than Leicester at the weekend and too often last season we didn't look any better than the likes of West Brom and Cardiff home or away and we got totally ran over by a powerful Crystal Palace team.

Still a tad worrying.

James Hughes
22 Posted 20/08/2014 at 07:28:06
We just need to be patient gents.

Last day of the transfer window I expect at least 2 more signings,
that way BK and friends have saved a month’s salary.

Anthony Hughes
23 Posted 20/08/2014 at 07:46:53
So we've added one body to last season's first team squad total and people are talking of third place finishes and winning the Europa League.What have we spent? ٢ mill on Besic, paying for Lukaku on the drip. Typical Everton is anyone really surprised?
Sean Kelly
24 Posted 20/08/2014 at 08:35:55
I said before on another thread Lukaku is the equivalent of Fellaini plus half a million regardless of being on a drip payment scheme. We bought Besic for ٢m and we gave increases in terms to a few player. This hardly explains where the 㿀m profit plus increased tv money has gone. Come on Billy get the cheque book out and get a decent striker, a keeper and a CB.

We need a decent striker as Lukaku needs proper competition as without competition it would make him complacent.

Mike Keating
26 Posted 20/08/2014 at 08:44:54
I see the Henen deal is still "inching closer"
Phil Walling
27 Posted 20/08/2014 at 08:41:57
Beginning to think that garnering a 'war chest' for the new stadium is getting priority.

I'm told to expect a 'bold statement' on the move 'NEXT WEEK'.

PS is that because 'next week' never comes ?

Karl Masters
28 Posted 20/08/2014 at 08:59:26
48 hours, Phil, 48 hours....

Maybe a stadium statement will be designed to deflect attention from a lack of activity as the transfer window shuts? Or worse, to deflect attention as we let someone go for big money and bring in a cheap replacement?

Denis Richardson
29 Posted 20/08/2014 at 08:49:42
Hope these are just mind games being played by Roberto as I cannot imagine that Everton are not looking to bring new players in with almost two weeks still to go in the transfer window.

At the very least we need another striker, even if Kone was fit we need 3 proper strikers in the squad (am not counting Naismith as a striker). Kone may or may not start playing in September or October and until then we're basically hoping Lukaku stays fit!

We only have one loan player and I think we'll bring in another - seems like the Traore deal is dependent on what happens with Falcao, so we'll have to wait until the end of the window most likely given Falcao doesn't want to go to the RS (and who can blame him) Cannot see Madrid buying another player for 70m odd this summer - no way they can fit Ronaldo, Bale, Rodriguez and Falcao into the same squad, never mind the likes of Benzema (who just signed a new contract)...this will run a bit.

No new players in before Sunday though so we go with what we've got against the Arse.....

Phil Walling
30 Posted 20/08/2014 at 09:11:59
I guess we've got what the club feel we can afford rather than what Roberto would like.

Perhaps it's the new ground, perhaps it's an attempt to sort the debt problem once and for all.

Be interesting to see in which direction 'other operating costs' go in the next accounts !

Mark Tanton
31 Posted 20/08/2014 at 09:30:14
WeÂ’ve had a good window by recent standards and done some positive business before the season started. If Atsu and Besic improve what we have and Long and/or Macleny step up then weÂ’ve done alright. Still short though really, I agree.
Denver Daniels
32 Posted 20/08/2014 at 09:25:18
We've invested heavily in Lukaku. Surely we need to sign a creative midfielder to maximise our investment.
Mark Pierpoint
33 Posted 20/08/2014 at 09:37:55
The negativity is astounding. We have smashed our transfer record and there are still people moaning!

Danny #21. All deals of paid for ’on the drip’ there are very few clubs that pay transfer fees up front. I don’t think that this is a criticism of the club. I think we need a back up striker still, I accept that. If we get this I think we are FAR stronger than last year. Don’t ignore the gravity of new deals for Martinez, Barkley, Stones and Coleman also.

The TV money has shot up, but there are financial fair play issues to content with AND the simple fact that there is nothing wrong with a bit of prudence. Kenwright et al. have rightly copped a bit of criticism in the past for being too conservative and prudent, this time though I think it is unjustified, I really do.

Henrik Lyngsie
34 Posted 20/08/2014 at 09:31:38
Well the fact is that funds are limited and priorities are to be made.

I think we have constantly improved the dept of our squad over the last 5 years and we look really good with cover on any position ( maybe a little weak on Lukakus position). By nature the cover player is not as good as the one he is covering. I know that for Chelsea and city you will hardly see the difference from their best to number 20 in the squad. But our financial situation is slightly different. So Roberto does well in not panicking.

In order for us to move on in the longer term we should look at improving our first 11 and maintain the current squad. And in order to do so we need to find players who are actually better than our current starting 11 and they will not come cheaply. So don't waste 5 million for a cover for Barkley. Barkley will be back again and in the meantime the manager will find cover from within his fine squad. Depending on opposition it could be Naismith Mirallas Osman Besic or Gibson. All decent players. Save the money and go and fine a long term improvement on the left wing. Pienaar McGrath osman can do a decent job, but rather spend big here like we did with lukaku maybe next season than spending on further depth just because of an injury.

Mark Pierpoint
36 Posted 20/08/2014 at 09:47:24
Agree with your points there Henrik. At the end of this season I think the two positions that will need looking at are LM and GK. Atsu will sort things for this year but long term I agree that this is where we want to spend our money really. We will also have to think about a long term replacement for Howard. I would like Butland from Stoke who was bought with the expectation of Begovic going (which never happened) or Begovic himself personally.

It is like last year. We could have spent the Jelavic and Anichebe money on a good striker. Instead we saved it and got a potentially world class one this year. I know which I would prefer

Tony J Williams
37 Posted 20/08/2014 at 09:59:27
I fully expect a rumour of an impending buy out, which is in advanced talks and which disappears a day after the window shuts.

Mark, people are moaning because they are fed up with the same old same old. Once again, we have literally spend no money on transfers. The Fellaini money paid nicely for Lukaku, the money from Jelavic and Anichebe more than covered Besic. So where is the rest of the money?

Tony Abrahams
38 Posted 20/08/2014 at 08:46:55
Wasn't always like that, you know, Anthony, even if our fans had to have a whip round to buy Terry Curran in the eighties. Kenwright is in charge, and unless he does something to change things, then this is the way it is always going to be.

What has Martinez spent since he's been here, about 㿣 million? And he's recouped about 㿔 million. So for about 㾻 million we have a much better squad IMO.

Let's just get behind the team and see where it takes us, but if we could get another player in, I think central defence is where we might be short.

Mike Childs
39 Posted 20/08/2014 at 10:22:41
Better to get Kone totally match ready then to rush him back. In a pinch Naismith or Mirallas can move into Lukaku spot. They just can't be expected to do it long term as they're need more in their designated positions. I'd love to see Long get a chance after watching that cracker he scored last week.
James Wong
40 Posted 20/08/2014 at 10:43:35
Mr. Martinez - what about Shinji Kagawa? He is rotting on the bench over at Man United and it would be a good thing for both parties to at least loan him and get him some games.

If you watched Dortmund play when Kagawa was around, you'd know that everything good went through Kagawa especially on the counter attack.

You could just loan him for 3 months until Ross gets back. His wages might be high but it wouldn't be for long. Man U would be interested, if he does well, his value will go back up.

Jack Okell
41 Posted 20/08/2014 at 10:49:15
Harold - It's copying and pasting a link. Even an ol' son of a gun like you can do it ;P
Mark Pierpoint
42 Posted 20/08/2014 at 11:09:09
James, If Kagawa was made available and willing to go out on loan to another Premiership club without any caveats such as an extortionate loan fee etc. I would hazard a guess that he would not still be sat on Utd's bench. If they get rid I imagine it would be a permanent deal or at least a loan to a CL team abroad.

I take your point Tony I am just suggesting that it could be a lot worse. 10 years ago Barkley, Stones and Coleman would probably have been shipped out of the door, if not by now then very soon.

Amit Vithlani
43 Posted 20/08/2014 at 11:15:25
I would wager that Falcao will not move in this window - Monaco have made a disastrous start and simply can't afford to lose him. It opens the possibility of Traore arriving on deadline day.

I think we have some wonga left to spend but suspect Martinez will wait to re-enforce in January depending on how Kone, Gibson and Oviedo do in their recovery.

That said, if we could have another deadline day like last year, that would be well and truly marvellous. Surprise us again, Bobby lad...

Steve Sweeney
44 Posted 20/08/2014 at 11:11:40
Where is everyone coming from in that we have blown our transfer budget?

We got 㿓m for Fellaini, Anichebe an Jelavic, shifted them plus Heitinga from the wage bill, so the wage bill with new contracts and signings has maybe gone up a little. We have spent 㾹M on McCarthy,㾶M on Lukaku (last year's loan fee plus the ٣M a year over his contract), ٠M on Barry, ٢M on Besic, and possibly ٠M loan fee for Atsu — that's 㿋M.

When will Everton Fans WAKE UP and realise our "Other operating expenses" just keep going up? The new faculties at Finch Farm needed to keep those lawnmowers dry are going to cost a fortune... Ken-Green construction have put in a quote – it wasn't the cheapest but, in the best interests of the club... blah blah.

It seems our Chairman can fool most of the people most of the time!

Harold Matthews
45 Posted 20/08/2014 at 11:08:45
Jack. Posting my opinions to TW is the most advanced IT thing I have ever attempted. I have a desktop bought from Ebay for 㿨 which I have managed to attach to a 32" TV. Typing is done with one finger and stuff like "copying and pasting a link" is off the agenda. Don't know what it is or what it means.
Linda Morrison
46 Posted 20/08/2014 at 11:58:44
Agree with most of the points on here, but my main concern is numbers.

We are more or less the same squad size as last season and in another competition.

I think he will be moving several of the younger players up to the senior team. I can't see any other way we will cope

Mike Allison
47 Posted 20/08/2014 at 12:03:58
We need cover for Lukaku, or else he needs to play Mirallas as a number 9 regularly and include the young strikers in the first team on a regular basis. I don't know if they're good enough for that.

In terms of numbers everywhere else, we're actually significantly increased on last year. Given that Kone and Gibson (and even Hibbert) didn't really play at all last season, we're three up there. Besic puts us up in midfield and the apparent consideration of at least some of Browning, Duffy, Garbutt and possibly Long, Hope and McAleny as within contention for the first team means we're as many as 10 up on last season at the most optimistic consideration, and more realistically probably five or six.

There's also Oviedo to consider, although he probably comes out neutral as he missed half of last season and will miss some of this season.

The problem is whether the injured players are truly able to come back and play a full role, we also don't know how the younger players will go in the first team. I would therefore say we have uncertainty, not and actual out and out lack of numbers.

Karl Masters
48 Posted 20/08/2014 at 12:07:03
Harold is to be applauded not only for having the balls to get into twenty first century technology, but also his balanced views.

Harold, however, you could have a go at learning things like cut and paste. They are very easy once you have done it a few times, like anything in life. Do you have a young computer savvy relative or neighbour who could help you out? When I am stumped on IT my kids help me out, even the three year old plays with the I-pad.

Go on mate, its line Roberto passing a ball to Jagielka and Distin last Summer and saying, ' learn how to pass it short, learn how to be comfortable with the ball, you do not have to hoof it, in fact you must not hoof it unless clearing danger.' They found it strange? Sylvain even said it was scary, but they have learnt!

Karl Masters
49 Posted 20/08/2014 at 12:07:03
Harold is to be applauded not only for having the balls to get into twenty first century technology, but also his balanced views.

Harold, however, you could have a go at learning things like cut and paste. They are very easy once you have done it a few times, like anything in life. Do you have a young computer savvy relative or neighbour who could help you out? When I am stumped on IT my kids help me out, even the three year old plays with the iPad.

Go on mate, its line Roberto passing a ball to Jagielka and Distin last Summer and saying, 'learn how to pass it short, learn how to be comfortable with the ball, you do not have to hoof it, in fact you must not hoof it unless clearing danger.' They found it strange? Sylvain even said it was scary, but they have learnt!

Mark Pierpoint
50 Posted 20/08/2014 at 12:08:14
Numbers don't concern me too much apart from if we get injuries. We have two players for each position
GK- Howard, Robles
RB- Coleman, Hibbert
CB- Jags, Distin, Alcaraz, Stones
LB- Oviedo, Baines, Garbutt
LM- Pienaar, Atsu
RM- McGeady, Mirallas
CM- Gibson, Barry, McCarthy, Besic
AM- Barkley, Osman, Naismith
ST- Lukaku, Kone, Naismith.

This is without the youngsters and ignores that several can play more than one position. I think squads are better smaller as you will get disenchantment from those not playing. I don't see the point in buying decent players on the 'what if..' simply to not play them. I think the only place we are vulnerable is up front as Kone isn't back and there will be a long period of getting to 100% match fitness for him. Other than that we are ok and I am sure we will cope.

Whether people think some of these players are not up to it is another debate. All I would say is unless you are Chelsea or City you are going have to need luck with injuries to do anything as you can't cover all bases.

Nicholas Page
51 Posted 20/08/2014 at 12:12:11
Darren Gibson as "cover"....the mind boggles.

IMHO, we need 3 players right down the spine of the team, that arenÂ’t injury prone and that are AT LEAST as good as those they would be replacing. Either Holtby or Dembele would be excellent additions, as would Welbeck upfront. Defensively, its harder but apparently Besic can slot-in in the middle. Longer term we really need central defenders who are comfortable on the ball, as Jagielka and Distin just arenÂ’t. Stones still learning.

Sean Kelly
52 Posted 20/08/2014 at 12:16:55
Harold fair play to you. All these modern gizmos are fine but they won’t make any difference to your welcome balanced comments. I learnt that copy and paste thing last year as I’m new to this computer lark. If an auld fart like me can do it, anyone can.

I look forward to seeing your well balanced and knowledgeable comments on here.

Sean Kelly
53 Posted 20/08/2014 at 12:27:48
PS Harold I’m also of the solitary finger typing brigade.
Mark Pierpoint
54 Posted 20/08/2014 at 12:20:10
Come on Nicholas! Realistically for a team like Everton buying in (even on loan) these players is not going to happen is it? Dembele and Welbeck are 㾶m+ players. We are not going to get players like these to come as back up are we? Financially it is not viable, they wont come to be a rotation option (they are already that at their current clubs, and the two clubs are our rivals with nothing to gain from loaning us players.

We certainly don't need all three. There is no point either financially, or crucially for the squad dynamic to bring players in where they are not needed.

Iakovos Iasonidis
55 Posted 20/08/2014 at 12:26:11
We need 2 more players for sure. Kagawa would be great addition but no way man u would give him to us. It seems we will fight for the same positions with them. We also need a striker, not cover for Lukaku but someone who will be good enough to take lead position if Lukaku is out of form sometimes throughout the year. I wish kone would be the answer but even then he is not enough. As things stand we are out of depth in 2 positions, number 10 and striker. Even with Barkley fit we need an Arteta style player. We never covered properly that position.
Mike Allison
56 Posted 20/08/2014 at 12:51:03
Karl was that you copying and pasting or just showing Harold that we all get things wrong on computers...?
Mike Allison
57 Posted 20/08/2014 at 12:53:34
I'd like to second what Mark is saying (although imagine if we did have two Naismiths...).

The big difference I think is that Martinez has full confidence in Kone to be fit and effective back-up for Lukaku but the rest of us need convincing.

Steve Woods
58 Posted 20/08/2014 at 12:41:38
Mark 51 "Numbers don't concern me too much apart from if we get injuries. We have two players for each position"

The numbers that we have do concern me and of the list you give 3 of those players are already out injured with unknown return dates; Barkley, Oviedo and Kone. Gibson has been out with injury for both ourselves and 'Utd. more than he has ever been available to play. McGeady in reality is still an unknown quantity as is Kone if he ever returns to full match fitness. Naismith you mention twice. Finally, Robles is not the number 2 keeper a club like ours does not deserve and is in no way an adequate stand in.

So of your list of 25
3 are out injured
1 is counted twice
1 is serially unavailable
2 are unknown quantities in talent and availability
1 is a poor back up keeper

It could be argued therefore that the 25 you mention already stands at just 21. Of those twenty one, another 4 players Gibson, Kone, Robles and possibly McGeady may not prove to be adequate. I think that we are short on numbers of reliable and adequate players for the squad.

Steve Woods
59 Posted 20/08/2014 at 13:00:39
Typo! Finally, Robles is not the number 2 keeper a club like ours deserves and is in no way an adequate stand in.
Steve Jenkins
60 Posted 20/08/2014 at 12:48:25
Obviously there isn’t much money left for this window.

There’s no way RM wouldn’t spend if he had it, we really need pace & creativity added to the squad.

Yes, we’ll have Kone back soon who I rate, he’ll bring pace we need but how long will he need to get up to speed?

Kone scored 12 goals in a side that went down, I remember watching him for Wigan against us thinking how threaten he was. A quick look at his goals shows he has pace, a nice touch and can finish.

He would have a big difference to our season last year I think.

I hopeful of another striker and winger added (not including Henen - hopefully) but I wouldn’t be surprised if nobody else came in.

I think last minute deadline day we may see a striker on loan, as we are short of numbers and if we were to get concurrent injuries to Lukaku and Kone, we’d be desperately short of quality.

Long looks a prospect & McCleany but there be on the fringes this year (with Carling Cup, FA Cup & some EL league games) so another striker is a must.

We’ve spent most of our money on one player this year, obviously Martinez see’s RL as key player to build around for the future. I know people say its in instalments but I just can’t see how we wouldn’t strengthen further if the cash is there.

RM also said end of last season that 㾶M is being allocated at FF for overnight accommodation for players (mainly the younger players).

Players we are desperately lacking are players with skill, touch, creativity & pace that can unlock defences as well another quality striker.

Nolito would be a player I’d love to see at GP, or players of that ilk.

I think however, these type of players will be the next stage of RM rebuilding along with another CB or 2 to go with (Stones & Galloway) as Jags, Distin are coming to the end & AA is as well but simply isn’t good enough.

I said the other day, I think 2 seasons/another 4 transfer windows will give RM time and money to strengthen the squad sufficiently in all areas & 4/5 youth players should have come though not including LG (Galloway, possibly Browning, Ledson, George Green (hear big and Martinez already said a player he loves) hopefully Henen and one or two others hopefully - to go give us a genuine chance of CL qualification.

Pete Cross
61 Posted 20/08/2014 at 13:04:41
Harold T Webs own overseas player analysiist
Mark Pierpoint
62 Posted 20/08/2014 at 13:02:17
Steve #59.

1) McGeady has played over 150 games for Celtic and Spartak Moscow. Kone has played in Spain, Germany Holland and the PL. They are not ’unknown quantities’ at this level at all. I also don’t understand how you can deem Gibson ’inadequate’ as even a squad player.

2) Robles is inexperienced and I would prefer him out on loan and have an ageing keeper as back up. In mentioned Tomasz Kuszczak who is available on a free a while ago. This would allow Robles to go and get the game time any GK needs. But for the purpose of your argument solely on numbers he is part of our first team and has got some experience.

3) Injuries- I know that some are injured in that list. This is why we have back up players isn’t it? It is going to happen. Kone is about a month away supposedly as is Ovideo according to RM. For this reason it is fair to name them as part of the squad.

4) in my squad I have not named any youngsters apart from Garbutt. Long, Galloway, Browning and Duffy are all there ready to make up numbers. As I said a lot of clubs will have to add youngsters to squads in times of injuries. This is not unique to Everton. Look at Southampton for example. You can’t fill a squad full of average players. Teams have tried it- Stoke and West Ham have two of the biggest squads in the league. Depth but no quality. That is the alternative. It is only Chelsea and Man City who can afford to have 25 man, experienced squads.

5) If we filled the squad with more experienced players, even in the short term, when all are fit we would probably be over the 25 man rule and therefore someone would not be able to be registered anyway.

Mark Dunford
63 Posted 20/08/2014 at 13:25:54
No too surprisingly, I agree that the squad lacks depth though it has improved in this respect since Martinez took over. We have fewer versatile players in the Heitinga mold (i.e. good, but not especially so, in a range of positions). We also have a few ageing players who won't last the course of an elongated season and most have been excellent servants for the club. We also have at least two in Kone and Gibson who are high risk in terms of a squad place and have made regrettably little contribution in the past year. I think we need a couple more signings to ensure we don't lose games to injury. I'm assuming I wasn't the only one to worry when McCarthy went down against Leicester!
Mark Pierpoint
64 Posted 20/08/2014 at 13:34:34
Cheers Mike,

I still need convincing on Kone too. Like I said it is the one position I think we still need someone for as you don't know how long it will take him to get up to speed, or even if it will be another Yakubu incident. Martinez seems to have faith in him though and that is something. If Kone was totally finished I am sure Martinez would not risk the results of the team out of blind loyalty. Therefore we have to at least consider him as an option.

Henrik Lyngsie
65 Posted 20/08/2014 at 13:25:07
Steve 59. We do have 24 different players. Currently 3 are injured and at any given time someone will be injured. If we consider at any given time we have 2-6 players out injured, we will still have minimum 18 available.

I still remember like 5 years back when Moyes had no one decent at the bench. Sometimes he had 3-4 unproven youngsters at the bench in the premier league.

Today even with 6 players injured we still have 7 decent reserves.

We would all love to have 5 more and of a better quality than mcgeady. But the reality is that we are not flooded with cash to spend. Under these circumstances McGeady is a decent back up for us and the depth in squad (and numbers) is not too bad.

And this is even without including the unproven youngsters.

Harold Matthews
66 Posted 20/08/2014 at 12:14:15
Surprised we haven't tried for United's 6'-2" centre back Michael Keane, captain of England U21s and scorer of goals from set pieces Successful championship loans but well down the pecking order at Old Trafford.
Craig Walker
67 Posted 20/08/2014 at 13:54:29
Anyone know what Riquelme is doing these days?
Sam Hoare
68 Posted 20/08/2014 at 14:17:25
Decent shout Harold. I certainly feel we could do with another commanding centre back in the near future. Maybe Duffy is the answer but I still think we look horribly vulnerable to the long ball/ set piece. One of the few respects in which we miss Jelavic and Fellaini.
Derek Knox
69 Posted 20/08/2014 at 14:49:50
Sam and Harold, I have said all along that we need another defender to seriously put pressure on the ones we have or indeed step in and do a job. I have mentioned once, or was it twenty times, that Micah Richards fits the bill to a tee.

I am also bewildered, as several posters are too, Roberto said that we needed seven players, while I am very pleased with the players that we have secured. I still feel we are short if we are to be serious contenders on all four fronts.

We have lost Ross, and he hasn't even played a game yet, what about when injuries take their inevitable toll, I think we are going to be a bit thin on the ground, with the squad we have. I just hope there are a few surprises left come the window closure.

Si Cooper
70 Posted 20/08/2014 at 14:48:51
Mark Pierpoint, I don't understand why you sweepingly label some genuine concerns as 'negativity'. It isn't exactly gloom and doom on this thread, just a widespread suspicion that we could struggle to sustain a challenge in the multiple competitions we are involved in this season.

It has already been pointed out that outgoings over the last 12 months have to be considered when looking at what we have spent this summer. What about the extra TV money? Is that record deal so amazing when you consider the 㿀 million windfall that arrived this month? I am not saying we have to spend the lot in one go or that positive steps haven't been taken, just that you seem overly impressed by what we paid for Lukaku.

How can you not expect injuries this year? With the injury record of some of our players, the age of another half dozen, and the extra games to play it is virtually a certainty that we will be 'making do' at times during this season, and some of our back-up is distinctly second class when compared to the ability of our first choice. To be (arguably) at less than optimal strength at the start of the season doesn't seem to me to be cause for celebration.

You cannot consider a player a definitively known quantity until he has played a significant number of games with his current squad mates and in the manager's chosen system. What players have done in Scotland or in other leagues may not be be irrelevant, but neither is it absolute assurance that they will produce the goods for Everton this season.

David Williams
71 Posted 20/08/2014 at 15:40:29
Granted we may have significant cover for Ross. However, it’s the ever-changing noises from Roberto that leads me to think that someone has got a grip of him and regarding his rhetoric on player arrivals.

"I want my transfer business done before the World Cup." — Didn’t happen.
"I want 6 or 7 new players in." — Didn’t happen.
"I want to make full use of the loan system." — Unlikely to happen.

Champions League!?! More chance of knitting fog!!

Mark Pierpoint
72 Posted 20/08/2014 at 15:32:58
The negativity thing was more about comments surrounding the Lukaku deal 'being on the drip' to be honest. Concerns are obviously not negativity per se, and I am certainly not saying all is perfect. I accept your point on that...

I don't the others.... (i will go through a paragraph at a time)

1) The 㿈m pretty amazing, yes. I think the club has conducted its transfer business in an impressive way. Including the signing up of our best players on long term contracts. The board could have baulked at it, and for once they didn't. I am not saying they should now rest of their laurels though, but I for one would be happy with the club using some of this TV money to stabilise the clubs finances, rather than putting more into agents pockets.

2) I haven't once suggested that there wont be injuries this year? I think you have really misinterpreted this. That is why I was trying to suggest we have options, and we do. We can't insulate ourselves from any possible injury though. We are also limited in Europe and the Premier League by the 25 man squad size. I know a number of our players qualify as U21, but nevertheless. Do Arsenal have a significantly bigger squad than us? Do Hull?

The back up players are not as good, no. We are not going to have like for like replacements, particularly for our most valuable players. Not many teams can afford two players of Lukaku's ilk can they? This is the case with most teams other than City and Chelsea. Its simple economic reality. Lambert is not as good, or valuable as Sturridge. Sanogo not as good a Giroud etc.

3) There are no 'absolute assurances' really in football. There is no 'absolute assurance that Lukaku will have as good a season as last, but again you just have to put faith in the manger and scouting team who watch a lot more of these players before signing them than we do. I am certain Martinez would not have bought Kone and McGeady if he honestly thought he could not work them into the system at Everton.

Your points, and others are valid, but I am just trying to bring a bit of realism to this debate, any club needs luck with injuries to do anything in this league. Look at Liverpool for example last year, played a big part for them.

Si Cooper
73 Posted 20/08/2014 at 16:13:05
Mark, by suggesting that you are the one who is introducing 'a bit of realism' you are dismissing a lot of peoples opinion as 'unrealistic', which I don't think is a fair interpretation of what has been said.

You said, 'Numbers don't concern me too much apart from if we get injuries.' If you now accept that injuries are extremely likely then you should be a little bit worried now, just like those you think you are opposing.

It is not simply a case of having players of equal ability, it is the two or three positions where the back-up is currently very much below the standard of the first choice. Howard / Robles, Coleman / Hibbert, Lukaku / A N Other. Barkley may have a lot to learn, but nobody else in our squad can play that central role in the way that he potentially can even if they are apparently prepared to die trying.

It isn't simply a numbers situation. Arsenal may not have huge numbers but are you sure their back-up players aren't closer in standard in all positions? I wanted us to sign Lukaku and I am glad we went all out to get him, but if the trade off is that we may be heavily reliant on Gibson, Osman, Naismith and Hibbert this season then it is definitely a gamble and not an automatic win-win situation.

Peter Z Jones
74 Posted 20/08/2014 at 16:08:04
Henrik 35. Really liked what you said regarding spending big on talents that improve the starting eleven rather than a series of small expenditures on depth. It's the only way to improve. Think about how we've gotten to this level anyway. 2 years ago we had Osman and Neville in central midfield when Gibson went down. Thomas Hitzlsperger covering! Teams were playing through us easy because Osman is more of a #10 and Neville was just useless in midfield. Martinez brings in Barry and McCarthy. The midfield improves dramatically because they are quite simply superior players in the holding roles. Lukaku is a massive upgrade on Jelavic and Anichebe. Boom. All of a sudden, we're giving a Arsenal a legitimate run for 4th after one fantastic hour in the transfer window. Like Martinez says, very few players can truly improve us. So let's think big if we make CL. Go for Reus or Draxler for that attacking mid you want. Reus has a crazy low release clause of 16M and Draxler has fallen off the radar a bit after Schalke had a meh type season. Clearly we can afford them. Not saying that this is probable, but I'm just giving examples of the level we need to be chasing to really be a title contender one day soon.
Mark Pierpoint
76 Posted 20/08/2014 at 16:43:21
Numbers don't concern me unless we get injuries. That surely goes for most teams doesn't it? If we get a number of injuries then we will be forced to bring in the youngsters, then yes, we will be weak. But what is the solution really? The only solution is to purchase another 4-5 top players which is not really financially viable for Everton. For a Man City it is, hence the reason they are unlikely to struggle with injuries too much

Another striker is a must and is realistic as said player could expect to play a decent amount of games, anywhere else and I am not sure we could attract a quality player as their best chance of regular playing time would be in case of injury and how many top players who we can afford will do that? If Martinez had little confidence in certain individuals it would be different, but I don't think this is the case.

"Mark, by suggesting that you are the one who is introducing 'a bit of realism' you are dismissing a lot of peoples opinion as 'unrealistic', which I don't think is a fair interpretation of what has been said."

I don't like this bit, it sounds like you are trying to provoke some sort of argument like I have suggested they are all stupid or something...

Dave Abrahams
77 Posted 20/08/2014 at 17:06:18
Harold (46) — can I be your apprentice? I’m not 70 yet...
Roger Helm
78 Posted 20/08/2014 at 17:25:34
I said on another thread that this season will be transitional and my expectations are low. I can't see us winning anything or qualifying for CL this term. I expect a loanee or two but other than that I think the EL will be ideal for the youngsters to get game time, like when Anichebe was scoring a few in Eastern Europe. We will never know if they are good enough if they are not given the chance.
Si Cooper
79 Posted 20/08/2014 at 17:16:00
Mark, would you accept that planning involves looking ahead and trying to deal with likely scenarios?

If we look ahead and injuries are likely rather than unlikely, then the time to worry and do something about it is now when the transfer window is open. Otherwise it is make do with what we have until January.

You are trying to suggest that there are only two types of players available; those who are just as good as our best but who would not settle for only being squad players, and those who are no better (or younger / less injury prone) than our current back-ups. I simply don't agree with that summation. There are undoubtedly players with ability / potential to be had in lesser leagues (foreign or domestic) or twiddling their thumbs in bloated squads. It is by no means a foregone conclusion that we can attract / prise away these players but that is no reason to be complacent. I stated in my first post that I hope the manager is merely playing his cards close to his chest because I would genuinely be disappointed if people weren't working behind the scenes on any potential deal to bring in valuable players whenever they become available.

Yes, I do think associating your point of view with 'realism' is pejorative in the extreme even if it is purely accidental. Let's stick to 'pessimism / optimism', 'glass half full / glass half empty' characterisations.

Mark Pierpoint
80 Posted 20/08/2014 at 17:41:48
In the main I agree Si.

Should be plan for injuries- certainly. If we could buy two or three players who could improve the squad and be realistic purchases then I would be all for that. But I don't see it a failure or a negative if we don't. I agree with what you say about the goalkeeper, and I also agree with what you say about Hibbert at RB. If there are these players in say, Belgium who could come in and improve the general balance then go for it.Like I said, where I think myself and some others disagree is that I don't feel we are doomed to fail if we don't. I think the squad is deep enough to compete. Obviously a better quality of back up will make us compete more, and if it is available, great.

I don't know if this makes me optimistic about the current squad or pessimistic on the transfer front.

When I said about being realistic I meant with regards to suggestions about getting players like Kagawa, Welbeck or Dembele. Now I might be wrong, but I think that these suggestions are just not likely as I have tried to point out in previous posts.

Phil Walling
81 Posted 20/08/2014 at 17:57:41
Roger Helm @ 79. Was Anichebe the only one of the brood of 2006 to come through ?

If it's only about us having a one time look at a pack of kids, I don't think I'll bother. I'll wait for next season's friendlies. Urgh !

Matt Muzi
82 Posted 20/08/2014 at 17:52:46
I think if anything happens to Howard, Lukaku, or Coleman we are in trouble.

Robles has demonstrated nothing for me to have any confidence in him.

Who knows when and if Kone will be back & although he gives 100% I don't think it is Naismith's best position, as an out & out striker.

As soon as it was announced, I questioned why we had given Hibbert a contract extension, yes he's been a fantastic servant to the club, but in my opinion we need another backup.

Money is clearly the issue & I think we've put all our eggs pretty much in one basket bringing in Lukaku on a permanent deal.

However the club deserves massive credit (& I rarely praise the club and it's financial management) for getting him in.

That said like other's I hope we bring in some more players before the 1st September.

Derek Knox
83 Posted 20/08/2014 at 17:59:42
Roger# 79

I disagree with there mate, I think the Europa is definitely worth pulling out all the stops for, because don't forget that this year the winner automatically goes into the CL the following season.

While we should also be trying to better last season's point tally, I agree that this year will be harder, it's not out of the question either, to break the glass ceiling.

Although I do think we need a couple more quality signings, to achieve that.

Ray Said
84 Posted 20/08/2014 at 18:33:04
Most fans want to see their team winning. Coming fourth in the premier league isn't winning except on the clubs balance sheet. Let the accountants worry about that — I want trophies (cups, shields and anything shiny will do).
Shane Corcoran
85 Posted 20/08/2014 at 18:37:59
Just read that Graham Stuart reckons we shouldnÂ’t buy to replace Barkely.

Can someone tell me if Stuart has a formal role in the club? I know he did some commentary on pre-season but he seems to be popping up a lot lately.

Colin Glassar
86 Posted 20/08/2014 at 18:46:03
Holtby is being mentioned.
Phil Walling
87 Posted 20/08/2014 at 18:51:31
Working for Everton TV I understand.
Frank Crewe
88 Posted 20/08/2014 at 19:11:48
It's not cover for BarKley we need, it's a replacement for one or both of our centre halves. While Distin and especially Jags are first choice we will not make the top 4. Jags lacks pace and towards the end of games they buckle under pressure if we have a narrow lead.

How many times have we been bombed out of a lead in the last few minutes of a game? Too many times. Stop worrying about Barkley and tighten up the defence.

Raymond Fox
89 Posted 20/08/2014 at 19:14:12
Martinez has not said he wont for definite get anyone else in, he always leaves the door open for players that will improve the squad, may be he's trying to move on a deal that's hit stalemate to call their bluff. May be not!

Don't forget that our wage bill must have climbed to fair old level now with all the improved new contracts that we have handed out, plus its not just signing new players, you have to pay them as well.

We have some decent youngsters on our books that deserve a chance :- McAleny, Long, Browning, Hope, Ledson although at 17 perhaps not this season in Ledsons case.
Were never going to be able buy a team that will take us all the way to the top, we will have to sink or swim by our young players.

I think Barkley will be back sooner rather than later, Oviedo and Kone (who's a decent player if he overcomes his injury) are also on the way back hopefully.

Aidy Dews
90 Posted 20/08/2014 at 19:57:35
Mark Pierpoint, post 34, very wise words indeed, but a lot of Evertonians won't see it in that manner sadly.

At the end of the day, what revenue and income we make goes on running costs and wages across the board at the club and there've been works done on Goodison that have had to be done as a requirement due to the standards of the rules in the Premier League and Uefa now which have cost a few million.

Then there's the new contracts for the likes of Martinez, Distin, Coleman, Baines, Barkley, Stones etc. Then there's probably a deal on the table for McCarthy and then of course, signing Lukaku, Barry, Besic and Atsu, and the likes of Galloway and hopefully Henen – it all adds up!

Yes, we didn't pay for Lukaku in full, but that has allowed us to give out new improved deals, sign other players and whatever else. We're not a cash-rich club and, even though we had funds left over from sales last season, with that and the extra TV money, we was able to sign some players and give out contracts and use that money to run the club for a number of years.

A club like us has to be prudent with what money comes are way and I think we have been and done some really good business this summer.

I do think they'll be a little left in the kitty and I'd be surprised if we didn't sign at least another striker on loan to cover our backs in case we pick up any injuries?!

Ian McDowell
91 Posted 20/08/2014 at 20:03:35
Frank @ 89. I am with you. Jags and Distin have aways got a mistake in them and will cost us points regularly this season. Far too many times I see the ball bouncing either just outside or in our penalty box.
Christopher Kelly
92 Posted 20/08/2014 at 20:16:56
Sounds like a smokescreen to me...
Harold Matthews
93 Posted 20/08/2014 at 21:00:46
Dave. You wouldn't learn much but I like your sense of adventure.
Tom Bowers
94 Posted 20/08/2014 at 21:53:07
I agree we should not need cover for Barkley. They appear to have plenty of talent in midfield to get by as long as what they have is consistent over 90 minutes.

I do think that RM erred on Saturday by not giving Atsu and/or Besic a run out in the last half an hour. The question is now does he start the same eleven against the Gooners? I hope not. I don’t have the same confidence in the Distin/Jags partnership like I used to but think that Distin may be the best selection to deal with Giroud in the air but would like Stones or Alcaraz to get a start in place of Jags.

The Gooners will be tougher this time around but had a tough game in Turkey yesterday. Having said that, any repeat of Everton’s second-half display against the Foxes will result in a loss.

Mark Pierpoint
95 Posted 20/08/2014 at 22:05:32
Thanks for that Aidy. Raymond #90 spot on as well. I know we don’t owe the lads a living but we have based Everton FC on allowing academy lads the chance to shine. I understand you can’t find it if it genuinely isn’t there, but I would rather be an Everton fan seeing us develop our own talent than be a Stoke fan or a Tottenham fan, whose clubs have singularly failed to produce any of their own players and have still done nothing.

We criticised Moyes for blocking the path of some of our younger players. Who can forget the days of Anthony Gardner on loan etc? I am not saying don’t purchase players who may improve the team, but lets not fill the fringes with players who will impede the development of our own.

Trevor Lynes
96 Posted 20/08/2014 at 23:31:30
We have a first team squad of 23 players and out of that number Barkley, Oviedo, Kone and Gibson are a gamble on whether or not they will return fighting fit. The other members (on paper) are not what I would call genuine quality first team players.

The experienced players are pretty thin in numbers when the extra fixtures are taken into account and realistically I see a drop in standards after Christmas.

Normal injuries and the odd suspension will further deplete the playing strength we have once the winter weather takes its usual toll. We do not have quality cover at goalkeeper, right back and striker.

If either Jagielka or Distin get injured we will suffer from lack of experience.

I am not happy about Alcaraz or Hibbert as deputies.Garbutt is the only youngster apart from Stones who I would feel comfortable with starting a match. Hopefully Galloway will be another who will make the grade.

Henen is required IMO, but not yet signed. The squad is actually weaker this season as we do not have a Jelavic, Traore or Anichebe to come off the bench while Kone is out injured.

Gueye and Vellios have left from last seasonÂ’s squad. The only positions that have been strengthened are midfielders. I think we can cope without Barkley but we desperately need a striker and right full back to get us through the extra fixtures until Oviedo, Kone and Gibson are fit.

Gavin Johnson
97 Posted 20/08/2014 at 23:25:03
Looking at all news "Everton" today, another site has regurgitated the Eto’o story. This story won’t go away, but I can’t see how we can afford the wages he’ll want unless we pay him a signing on fee and there’s a compromise made.. Is he even worth the rumoured 𧴜k a week?!

I wouldn’t want a player of ours getting the obscene amounts of money like the former player of ours gets down the East Lancs Road. On the whole I’ve been happy with the business we’ve done so far this summer. If we get a striker in on loan like the aforementioned Eto’o or Troare I’ll be satisfied if the terms are right for Everton.

One thing I do feel in this new era of Roberto’s apart from more positivity is clear goals and objectives. In the signings of Galloway and Henen, (if that deal happens) marks a big shift in the quality of young fringe players over some of the one’s OFM got in... I’m thinking Vellios, Gueye, Silva!! You can see what Roberto’s trying to do, with Henen and Galloway making Pienaar’s and Distin’s positions their own in season or two if they make the transition.

On the subject of Lukaku, he has been bought "on the drip" but it’s still a tremendous coup we got the lad to sign. Most deals are like this unless you are one of the uber rich clubs which Everton aren’t. I still think that there should be enough money available to buy another player of quality in light of the payment structure. I would have thought the money from Fellaini, Vic and Jelavic sales would have gone a long way in paying for these new improved deals for Coleman, Ross etc

Ant Dwyer
98 Posted 21/08/2014 at 02:09:40
Holtby would be a terrific signing. I stated this in January that heÂ’s a really solid player who gives his all and can fill a number of positions.

He reminds me a little bit of a German Milner, plus heÂ’s a Blue so, for me, if the money was right, itÂ’s a no-brainer.

Si Cooper
99 Posted 21/08/2014 at 01:29:00
It seems to me that there are two philosophies competing on this strand.

On the one hand there is the idea that we can continue to build slowly but surely and that will be enough for us to continue to be competitive over the whole season and end up where we need to be.

On the other - and this is where I find myself to be - is the simple fear that qualifying again for European competition is going to stretch us to the limits, never mind actually winning a trophy.

I understand the fear of over-stretching and ending up worse off than we were before (there are plenty of 'boom and bust' examples for us to consider), and without a billionaire owner we can't compete financially with a fair number of our rivals, but the cautious approach doesn't come with any guarantees either. There is a fine line between prudence and excessive penny-pinching, and I have worked on a number of manufacturing sites were the inability to take the correct steps at the right times has severely undermined all the good and hard work that occurred on a daily basis.

People are calling for a host of the youngsters to be given a chance, completely forgetting that the vast majority of those who are now of an age where they should be stepping up if they are good enough were not actually hand-picked by Roberto Martinez. There may not be good reason to ship them out wholesale, but there is no reason to believe that most of them fit seamlessly into the manager's way of playing either. The whole club is still really in transition, and it would be an incredible fluke for the academy to already be stocked only with players who can adapt to / thrive under the current regime.

I suppose part of my problem is that I have a gut feeling that a lot of the messages that come out of the club are heavily spun and all the employees are dutifully toeing the party line. I appreciate that such a show of unity and optimism is important for any organisation, and I am sure that everyone (in their minds) is acting in the best interests of the club, but I am just not convinced that the manager is being given a free rein when it comes to recruitment.

Cards on the table

Peter Z Jones
100 Posted 21/08/2014 at 03:21:33
For the record, there is actually no correlation between added European games and league win percentage. Here's a great analysis of everything Europa League that should help ease your fears.

Matt Traynor
101 Posted 21/08/2014 at 04:52:01
Si #100, the slow-but-steady, incremental growth isn't going to attract players of the level that Everton needs right now. If you're coming into your prime, are you going to join a club that might be in a position to challenge for something in five years time, when your powers are on the wane?

What it's easy to forget is how much lost opportunity we've missed on. By being financially strapped, not looking overseas to expand the commercial and fan base (leveraging on having the top Australian and US players at that time etc.)

The way the finances have been managed has seen around ٧m a year go out just in debt servicing and finance charges. Loans that were taken on just to enable the major shareholders not to have to invest. It is only this last year that increased revenue has both reduced the need to borrow and allow money to be spent on the team. But if you really think about it, taking the last 3 years as a moving average, even allowing for the Lukaku 㿅m, we've hardly spent that much in net terms?

Matt Traynor
102 Posted 21/08/2014 at 04:58:06
Gavin #98, I get what you're saying, but assuming you're as fickle as the rest of us, if Eto'o fired us to the Champions League then yes he would be worth that.

The Eto'o of 5 years ago could do that. The Eto'o of today not so much, so I agree we should steer clear. The last few years he's been all about the money from what I see. He may have his "charitable foundation" but a lot of these African set ups have a worse record of getting money to where it's needed than your average UK High Street charity.

Gavin Johnson
103 Posted 21/08/2014 at 04:32:50
Si, I agree with what you're saying about potentially not having enough numbers in to qualify for europe again next season.. Its that dilemma of whether to try and usher some of the kids in or buy someone for the sake of it..who may not be better than who we've already got.

IMO in the long term we should continue down the road of a high quality loans, a couple of signings and a couple of young prospects each season.

In the short term..I'd prefer us not to buy anyone else in at all, if it means we got someone to fill in the attacking midfielder role like the fella (can't be bothered to google for spelling) who was on loan at West Brom last season, who we were linked with on Tuesday.

I honestly think we should get in a loan to fill that role. As for the names that keep cropping up like Kagawa; who just seems really lazy to me and not done anything noteworthy in the premiership. And Dembele and Holtby, who Spurs wouldn't loan us anyway. So maybe we should look at getting another up-and-coming player on loan or buy someone for a modest fee from europe. Who we could usher in this season to help fill in for Ross and eventually replace Osman.

Just to add I would love someone to come in from the U 21s but the only person I could think of was George Green, who isn't even in the first 11 of each week.

Harold Matthews
104 Posted 21/08/2014 at 04:47:15
Si. You're right. The academy is not already stocked with youngsters who fit the Martinez ideal. Some kids have been with us from a very early age and will have been fed all sorts of theories of how the game should be played. Personally, I would prefer that they just concentrated on perfecting basic skills.

Getting everyone to adapt to the new philosophy is virtually impossible but Dennis Lawrence was brought in to accelerate the progress of those who appeared to be most comfortable with the mental and physical changes. How it's all going is a mystery but ir's nice to know that there is a specific plan in mind.

As for Martinez not being given a free rein on recruitment. Well that's probably correct. He'll put in his list but will be aware of the limited funds. As with Pullis, not everything will please him, but he will never admit it. He'll smile when the window closes because that's what he does. Let's hope we're smiling with him.

Jim Bennings
105 Posted 21/08/2014 at 07:36:12
I'm not sure what the fascination with Kagawa is all about.

He has only ever looked a shit version of Park Ji Sung in my opinion, infact Park was well better.
Kagawa was signed primarily as a publicity stunt to keep United's Far East marketing men happy.

Mike Allison
106 Posted 21/08/2014 at 07:59:32
Peter that article says you do get more injuries and accrue fewer points the next season.

He offers statistics, then ignores the overall trend and picks out the one anomaly and seems to argue that the anomaly is the true picture and the overall trend is irrelevant.

The whole thing is a completely flawed argument based on manipulation of data and highly subjective interpretations of their meaning.

And I'm someone very much in favour of us being in the Europa League and taking it seriously.

Phil Walling
107 Posted 21/08/2014 at 09:07:15
I guess the more players we buy or borrow, the less chance that gives for the famed academy to 'turn a profit' by producing real challengers for first team places.

So few of these kids ever make it as compared to the days of Catterick & Co that the academy has become an elaborate 'job opportunities scheme 'from where about 10% get the chance to play for Brentford.

It's not an Everton problem but the very reason our national team is total crap !

Jim Bennings
108 Posted 21/08/2014 at 09:21:04
Kopites in talks to sign Balotelli!!

Why do they always seem to sign the most obnoxious hate figures in football?

Good player on his day mind you, and no doubt the odious twat will do Jagielka and Distin like a dog's dinner in the Derby and like all their usual odious striking twats will become another nemesis of ours.

Derek Knox
109 Posted 21/08/2014 at 09:30:53
Jim# 109

True, that SSN have put some credibility into that one, but like you say the RS do seem to have a propensity for signing this type of player, who on his day can be a match winner.

Having said that everywhere he goes or has been he has courted controversy and dressing room unrest, long may it continue if he does get persuaded by Brenda.

I notice too, that the Holtby story is gathering momentum, I think at the right price (which is unlikely with Spurs involved) he would be a useful addition, I would take him over Cleverly any day.

I can't see though why we keep getting linked with midfielders as it is all too evident that there are other areas which are far more in need of attention.

Nicholas Page
110 Posted 21/08/2014 at 11:08:12
Colin #87 - is there any truth to this? Your "track record" is pretty impressive, Sir.

Jim #109, theyÂ’ve ALWAYS had the most fucking obnoxious shower of twats in their side/managing it. Its only recently that people have noticed. They even tried to gloss over LS history, with their rabid PR machine.

Alan Humphreys
111 Posted 21/08/2014 at 10:45:19
I just don't get why Traore was kept on loan last year after getting injured - now we wait to see if Falcao goes beforecwe stand a chance of lianing him agsin. Surely that ship sailed a long time ago and we should have moved on.

The Henen deal infuriates me, had the kid on trial and look set to sign him and in the time its taken we've signed Lukaku and Atsu. I'm sure this kid is as frustrated as us going by his comments.

Phil Walling
112 Posted 21/08/2014 at 11:58:31
Who the fuck cares about RS issues on this board. Too many TWers are obsessed with the bastards.

Please keep ToffeeWeb for Toffee flavoured matters !

Phil Walling
113 Posted 21/08/2014 at 12:01:48
PS........else I'll start writing about Wigan again !
James Morgan
114 Posted 21/08/2014 at 12:25:37
Apparently Roberto isn't ruling out a move for Eto'o on a Sky Sports transfer centre audio clip.
If the wages aren't ridiculous it could be a good move.
Gavin Johnson
115 Posted 21/08/2014 at 12:57:09
I had a hope that we'd get rid of Pienaar at the start of the summer, I didn't think he had the legs any more but I've done a 360 on that after the Leicester game.

I'd be made up if we had a big last minute offer for Osman lol

Harold Matthews
116 Posted 21/08/2014 at 12:56:20
Alan. Not convinced the Falcoa business will effect Traore one way or the other. He seems to be boxed off where no-one can touch him. Ranieri never even had him on the bench and it's exactly the same with the new manager. They are bottom of the league but the lad stays in his box and the rich russian is the only one with the key. Maybe he wants free tickets for a London show. I just don't know. It's all very strange but if Roberto starts tugging his ear whenever the big fella's name is mentioned, we know we're onto something. All eyes on the Monaco line-up at the weekend.
Harold Matthews
117 Posted 21/08/2014 at 13:38:39
Yes. Eto'o has turned down attractive offers. Says he is only interested in the RS or Everton.
Steve Jenkins
118 Posted 21/08/2014 at 14:08:56
Surely if Ballotelli goes to the RS it leaves favourites to sign Eto??

Unless he is only interested in £, which I'd doubt at this stage of his career, surely at his age you want as many games as possible. You can never be certain of what a players motivation will be though

Patrick Murphy
120 Posted 21/08/2014 at 14:13:17
There will be two Me players in their squad then Stevie and why always. They can't be too sure about his personality though as they wanted a clause in his contract that would allow them to ship him straight back if there are any issues - let's hope he causes mayhem in their dressing room rather than out on the pitch.
Mark Taylor
121 Posted 21/08/2014 at 13:57:21
Much debate over whether we need extra players, can we afford them, who would it be, but less we forget, it was our manager himself who has said we'd need '6 or 7' additions in order to be able to cope with EL this year.

Injuries are what they are and happen anyway so I won't count them in either way- unless we get someone getting their career ended- nor players destined for the junior squads (whether transferred out or in)

So just looking at what we had second half of last season, to what we now have, I can't see 6 or 7 additions. In fact, right now, I can't see one. Atsu for Delboy, Besic for Traore (albeit not the same positions) and that is it.

Keeping the same sized squad as last year may or may not leave us with enough strength (I think not) but the point is, it is nowhere near what Martinez himself indicated we would need.

Drew O'Neall
122 Posted 21/08/2014 at 14:21:59

If you are unsure what Eto'o's motivation is..... he went to play for Anzhi Makhachkala in South East Russia.


I read, only interested in us or them as he/agent thinks this is the best position to leverage for maximum spond's.

Steve Jenkins
123 Posted 21/08/2014 at 14:36:32
Fair enough Drew - if Liverpool get Ballotelli that should leave them out of it, an unable to drive the price up.

If we get him he's a quality addition (provided his wage demands aren't too excessive) if were playing 2 upfront or to bring off the bench & he should get enough game time as we're v lacking in depth there.

He scored 9 last year almost 1 in 2 for Chelsea, that would do nicely for us for a back up striker.

Bottom line is - Bill's blown the cobwebs off big time already for RL (granted in instalments) he's got a figure for the deal that he'll pay and he won't go beyond that.

It'll either be enough or it won't... but we all know nobody's getting one over on Bill

Tony J Williams
124 Posted 21/08/2014 at 14:42:44
Drew, he will be in for quite a surprise if he thinks he can get the maximum sponds from us.
Tony J Williams
125 Posted 21/08/2014 at 14:48:09
Steve, the only cobwebs he blew away are from the bank book containing Felaini's transfer fee.
Patrick Murphy
126 Posted 21/08/2014 at 14:44:06
Mark - Roberto may well have wanted more additions to his squad but he has to work within the budget set by his employers. As I have stated in previous seasons what is in it for the people who own Everton? They realise like most of us do that we can't really compete at the top end of the table and the chances of winning trophies is a long-shot at best. BK and his mates have spent what they think is plenty and they have already guaranteed to break the 30,000 supporters mark in all of the League fixtures at Goodison so exactly what is their incentive to spend more money? I realise that as supporters we want Everton to push the boat out and to give Roberto every chance to achieve his dreams at Goodison but a leopard never changes its spots and neither do Theatre Impresarios.
Phil Walling
127 Posted 21/08/2014 at 14:55:55
Hey, Harold, I've noticed the ear tugging's getting more pronounced and my bissie mates tell me it's a sure sign of 'dissembling'- Roberto never lies !
Patrick Murphy
128 Posted 21/08/2014 at 15:37:38
As long as he sticks to tugging his ear and not any other part of his or our anatomy eh Phil?
Mike Childs
129 Posted 21/08/2014 at 15:10:46
On another note perhaps Roberto didn't want to play Besic and Atsu last week to give Arsenal any ideas about their contributions this week.
Mark Taylor
130 Posted 21/08/2014 at 16:19:58

If football is a business, as many people believe, then it is a very dangerous game for a business to plan to stand still.

It is possible to lose a lot of money in this business- the Hicks and Gillet pair of clowns among them- but also to make serious bucks, as the Glazers have proved, along with Arsenal's former shareholders to name but a few. It's a matter of risk- reward.

What incentive do they have to spend more money? Very simple, to take the club to the next stage, qualify for CL and start building global sponsors and ratchet up the income and therefore shareholder value accordingly. This is far from impossible, though certainly not easy. But it is the classic risk/reward scenario that faces any business in a competitive arena.

I sense you are implying that the current approach, settling for best of the also rans if you like, carries little risk. On the contrary, that could unravel very quickly. Bear in mind that our current position is that we barely break even and rely on net transfer income. That looks like a very risky model to me, albeit it can in theory be a viable one, for a time at least.

This reminds me of that old Kennedy quote- 'there is a risk in a policy of action but nothing like the risks in a policy of inaction'. Basically our current shareholders put a few tens of millions in, which is chickenfeed in terms of today's business. It is clearly possible to extract hundreds of millions out. But we (i.e they) have to be willing to speculate to accumulate. You would then have to ask yourself, is Everton a club that might have a reasonable chance of pulling off such a strategy? I'm biased, but I would argue maybe we are the best placed of all the clubs, outside the so called top 6 to do so. So it's risky, but maybe a qualified risk.

Coming back to the manager, if you are right, then he has just had his first wake up call, in discovering he can't have what he planned for. Myself, I have a hunch that is what he wanted but at that point, could not count on getting Lukaku, so believed that would be feasible. It's clear though, that there's now no more money left worth speaking off. We've bet the kitchen sink on Romelu...

Patrick Murphy
131 Posted 21/08/2014 at 16:52:49
I agree with almost everything you have written in your reply Mark, but I don't see how the current board even with the best will in the world can hope to achieve what most fans would wish to see as they don't have the ready cash to invest into the club in a meaningful way.

Their only hope is too get a new stadium but that alone won't bridge the gap with our main rivals. I also agree that the policy that has been in force for so many years is a very risky way of running the club and a bad set of results during any given season could undermine whatever progress we have made as a club.

Not only do we have three of the biggest European clubs right on our doorstep but we are also competing with many of the top European clubs when it comes to buying players and there are only so many sponsors out there who are willing to pump money into a club.

Catch-22 should be our motto because there are so many pitfalls in whatever policy the club now employ and the only answer is proper investment from people with deep pockets and plenty of patience.

It does seem that Everton FC not only missed the gravy train when it was at the station they stood on the platform waving and wishing their fellow clubs Bon Voyage.

Mark Taylor
132 Posted 21/08/2014 at 17:09:42
Then I think if they are not prepared or able to make the necessary investment, they should hand the club over to someone who can.

There will be a buyer at the right price. There always is for businesses. The question is, what price are they after? I think they are entitled to make a modest return, certainly not be worse off in real terms. But I think they are holding out for an awful lot more than that, which is why we have no buyers, especially given the stadium situation.

That is also fine, they have a right to be greedy given they own the shares, but not, in my view, to simultaneously play the heartfelt supporter character too- if they really were fans first and foremost, they'd settle for less in the interests of allowing the club a chance to progress.

Harold Matthews
133 Posted 21/08/2014 at 22:31:38
Phil. Just looked up "dissembling." Hmm, sort of nails it.
Karl Masters
134 Posted 22/08/2014 at 15:56:59
I hear from a West Ham source that we are in for Diame again. Relatively cheap with a ١.5m release clause although wants big wages. Might be something in it.....
Shane Corcoran
135 Posted 22/08/2014 at 16:27:20
Diame? Another player for CM. Unless RM intends on flogging McCarthy or Gibson then I donÂ’t see it.
Si Cooper
136 Posted 22/08/2014 at 16:07:32
Patrick - you are forgetting (or ignoring) the manager's proclamations.

He quite clearly believes that it is possible to compete even without the huge resources other clubs have, but doesn't discount the advantage that those resources give you, especially in terms of accelerating the process. BK has made a big deal of the idea that Roberto Martinez was appointed to get us into the Champions League places. I think BK is quite prepared to go along with the minimal investment model ad infinitum, whereas RM will take any windfall that might come his way and not be at all troubled about giving the process a boost.

I don't really think that the Board expected to be in a position were they had a real opportunity to go for broke, and certainly not after just one season, and I feel they have not really grasped a golden opportunity to accelerate the process. Okay, there is no obligation to, but they could have made a decision that this was a good time to try something more than what seemed realistic 12 months ago.

I don't think the expenditure this summer is a great deal considering the revenue from TV and sales, and (unless something changes in the next week or so) I think the Board are showing they are very averse to risking any of their money no matter how circumstances may change.

Steve Jenkins
137 Posted 22/08/2014 at 16:31:23

Just found this, he is an energetic midfielder that covers ground at pace and gets forward, I was hoping we'd be in for him at the start of the season but thought Martinez had turned his attentions instead to Besic (which I had no complaints over), however I'll br more than happy to see another CM in this mould being added as, Besic & Barkley aside - our central midfielders - whilst bringing qualities needed - are very much in the pedestrian mould.

Patrick Murphy
138 Posted 22/08/2014 at 16:32:26
Si - you are correct in saying that I ignored the managers views on this subject, however, regardless of his wishes it always comes down to what the owners are prepared to expend in order to move the club forward. The manager can say many things and he will spend or not spend any money in the budget as he sees fit but he has to stick to his budget which ultimately is handed down by those who employ him.
Jackie Barry
139 Posted 22/08/2014 at 16:36:21
I saw this too Steve and went to look into it further but it seems like a rehash of the story from April and May, good player though and surprised nobody else has gone in for him.
Daniel Taylor
140 Posted 22/08/2014 at 16:36:44
Mark namesake @ 133, in my previous employment a few months ago I was involved in raising money for kids football leagues. I had a meeting with a football agent from Sunderland involved in the selling of football clubs; he told me he was trying to find buyers for a few different clubs... he was selling a lower Scottish league club (can’t remember which one) for ٟ million, Kilmarnock were up for ٧ million.

So I moved it on to the subject of English Premier League clubs. He then told me Newcastle were going for 𧸖 mill but Ashley would drop to 𧶲 mill, Spurs were 𧸖 mill as well with no discount... so obviously the next question was: "What price are Everton going for?" (You might want to sit down for this!)

He told me they were on the market for 𧹈 million!! With the added condition that the new owner has to build a new stadium!

Patrick Murphy
141 Posted 22/08/2014 at 16:50:57
Daniel - I'm out!!! as they say on Dragon's Den.

Steve Jenkins
142 Posted 22/08/2014 at 16:46:54
That's a shame Jackie, it did surprise me as I thought a loan/free for a striker aside on dd - our funds for this window were pretty much done.

You never know though, maybe Roberto's playing his cards close to his chest and he'll surprise us all with this signing followed by Henen & two more 1st team signings on deadline day. A striker & winger would do for me.

Clive Lewis
143 Posted 22/08/2014 at 16:55:22
The Diame story is new though so it must be just a pack of lies because Barkley injury is mentioned. No one else posting it yet.
Steve Jenkins
144 Posted 22/08/2014 at 18:15:21
Where's Colin....

Any truth in this one?

Colin Glassar
145 Posted 22/08/2014 at 18:45:28
Brian Wilkinson
146 Posted 23/08/2014 at 00:14:43
Sod another midfielder, where we really need to dig deep into the transfer window is backup for Tim Howard, if Howard loses form or picks up an injury, then I'm bricking it of Roubles coming in to cover.

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