Martinez keeping his options open

McAleny is unproven and should be blooded in gently during the Europa League and perhaps Capital Cup.

ItÂ’d quite clear Lukaku isnÂ’t fully right and I didnÂ’t like the way he trudged off like he was troubled by that injury against Arsenal, it tells me he may even be a possible doubt for Chelsea.

I would gladly take EtoÂ’o or Welbeck, you can never have too many proven striking options, especially given EvertonÂ’s quite horrendous injury record over the years.

I am not sure what Oviedo and Kone have to do with us improving the squad though.
Kone clearly is a long long way off being ready to participate in a football match, he hasnÂ’t played since last October, has had no pre-season and still isnÂ’t training.

Oviedo isnÂ’t a striker so I donÂ’t see how that has a bearing on bringing a forward in, and again, youÂ’re looking at least October before Oviedo gets even half fit.

I think Roberto is dropping the hint that business will need to be done.

What about another defender though?

Good shout re a defender Jim; I suspect though that Roberto may feel he has central defence covered with Jags, Distin, Stones, Alcaraz, possibly Besic; and then the younger lads (Duffy/Browning).

Worryingly though, I think that may be a case of quantity rather than quality in depth. Needs must elsewhere; and a back-up striker should be top priority.

We just have to hope that, at minimum, a striker is brought in as we are v short there and a concurrent injury during the season to Rom & Kone would leave only wee Naismith to lead the line and leave us in big trouble, especially with EL to consider & potential cup runs.

We need another striker on loan - end of. Who we can afford is a completely different issue. Traore. Eto IÂ’m not sure who else decent will be available on loan, any shouts?

There are other areas that need addressing (CB, GB (back up) etc, wingers & no:10) for the team & squad depth, however, I think we all have to be realistic - theyÂ’ll have to wait.

The defence issues - for now IÂ’d go 3 at the back (bring in Stones on the right - his pace allows him to cover Coleman on his right and in behind Jags on his left).

IÂ’d drop one of the DM and bring in Besic as a main midfielder as heÂ’s dynamic box to box and will track back anyway when we do not have the ball.

At some point, lets have a look at Duffy and give him a shot to see if he can be the big, commanding CB - otherwise lets just move him on.

Plenty of training ground defence drills & get the whole team defending hard from the front and pressing high. IÂ’d argue a defence coach to concentrate purely on that side of things.

Kone is in training. I saw an interview where Roberto said heÂ’s had quite a few sessions now training with the boys, however, I agree with your point itÂ’s still going to take him to Christmas to get to 75%.

We may be able to expect 20 cameoÂ’s from late Sept. Therefore another is very much needed.

I like Welbeck. HeÂ’s a tireless runner who will perform any job he is given. He can provide cover on the flanks or play down the middle. Expensive but worth it.

The problem with Jordan Rhodes wouldnÂ’t be his ability but the transfer fee that he would command, even clubs in the Championship nowadays know they can get top whack.

Kunal

IÂ’m not sure about Darren Bent anymore really.
Yes he knows where the net is but he has become something of a journeyman with regular injuries, I think Bent would actually be more sicknote than EtoÂ’o, thereÂ’s not much difference in age anyway.

I did like Bent during his Spurs and Sunderland days mind you, and I suppose if Lukaku does get injured or lose form weÂ’d be grateful for any centre forwards out there.

For me he was the one striker over the last 20 yearÂ’s we have had to rival Rooney in terms of natural World Class ability.

If we are to have a back up striker, I wouldnÂ’t mind if it was someone with SahaÂ’s talents.

He was predominantly left footed but I remember him being so powerful even with his right, actually scoring a beautiful right footed free kick against Fulham, how many players would even consider taking a free kick with their weaker foot??

He was quick and he scored plenty of headers.

I love Lukaku but I think heÂ’s still got some way to go before he reaches the levels Saha reached during his sadly injury hit career.

As I say weÂ’d do well to get striker who achieved what Saha did despite the injuries.

Traore was kept on after he was injured. We kept paying his wages, Martinez intimating that heÂ’d eventually play for us. Waste of money?

I would not be surprised if Kone didnÂ’t come back, or if he does, itÂ’ll be for short periods between injuries. HeÂ’s not getting any younger and is, to my mind, a complete and utter waste of money. Money that would have been better spent on the likes of Shane Long or Rhodes. At least theyÂ’d be fit to play.

IÂ’m glad weÂ’ve finally got Lukaku but I canÂ’t help thinking weÂ’ve paid way over the odds for him. Time will tell, but it seems a bit like all the eggs have been in Roms basket.

SahaÂ’s got an ability to shoot from the distance, and he specializes in those low, swift balls into the corner. He makes them look so easy. But alas, he cannot stay fit enough.

I think in the absence of strikers, a 3-5-1-1 formation is worth considering:

Stones Jageika Distin
Coleman(wb) Besic McCarthy Barry Baines (wb)
Mirallas
Naismith

Yes, he would command a decent fee but I am sure we could maybe do a loan deal that would include buying him for an agreed figure at the end of the season.

ItÂ’s up to our scouting network to identify these kind of players and convince Martinez to give them the green light.

Then for next summer we need to address the center back issue as surely this will be DistinÂ’s last year, Alcaraz doesnÂ’t do it for me and he obviously doesnÂ’t think DuffyÂ’s good enough.

I would definitely start Besic on Saturday as a proper 3 in central midfield with Mirallas and Naismith just behind Lukaku in a 4-3-2-1 formation

I think we have a diversity of opinion on here with regards to Welbeck, but I for one, am definitely in the same camp as yourself on that.

As for EtoÂ’o, well I sincerely hope this is just speculation, although it has been mentioned several times on SSN.

Getting back to Welbeck, heÂ’s the right age, does graft and not shy of teamwork, he is localÂ’ish too. He has also proved he can get goals at this level, it may be argued that he is not exactly prolific but there again in his defence, he hasnÂ’t been given long enough spells in the team to achieve that.

As for the Centre Back / Defender reinforcements, I donÂ’t think we can afford the luxury of time, to address this next summer, if we are to seriously challenge, and be successful, on four fronts we have to act now. Otherwise all the good work of last season, the transfers we have now got onboard, will be of little consequence if we continue to leak stupid goals, and leave gaping holes in defence.

I fail to see how we can be struggling for money either, as the Lukaku deal is allegedly over 5 years, and we havenÂ’t splashed too much elsewhere, apart from new cotracts to existing players.

I just hope we donÂ’t sign any of the players linked with us as they all arenÂ’t much good. The shopping list has to be a striker, a creative midfielder and a central defender.

I agree that 㿈 million was a lot of money for Lukaku, sadly itÂ’s the going rate fir s okay who scores 15-18 league goals, the strikers who get 25-35 goals are the ones who cost 㿞 million upwards, and even they donÂ’t guarantee you anything, just look at Torres.

I think Lukaku first of all needs to get himself 100% fit and then he needs to deliver the goods.

There is only one way he is going to be judged this season and thatÂ’s how many goals he scores, people will demand he gets at least 17 league goals IÂ’d imagine.

At the end of the day, itÂ’s not Lukaku who put the transfer fee on his head but when you pay 㿈 million then you want some serious reward in goals, if your looking for a striker to just do donkey work then you sign a Shane Long type.

I still slightly regret the missed opportunity on Wilfred Bony. I will be interested to see how well he fares with this being his second season here in England.

Perhaps come the end of the season we will look back with even more regret... I certainly hope not.

Atsu will come into the team more now also and can take over that wide role.

I think a bigger worry is our aging cb partnership. Distin still has pace but his thought process seems to have slowed, not on the ball at all. Jags looks a shadow of the player he was 2 seasons ago.

I think Stones needs to be as 1st choice cb, was great towards end of last season and needs game time to keep it going. We need a big power cb next to Stones as we are getting killed at set pieces. Maybe Shawcross?

If we are going for a striker, would prefer Welbeck over EtoÂ’o. Always looks like he has the talent but not the confidence to use it. Martinez might bring that out of him.

With 㿋m extra TV money, and around 㾾-20m profit from transfers last season, we should have some cash, even after the signings we have made.

Lukaku was 㿄m (٢m in add-onÂ’s if we reach CL) I believe it was a ٤m down payment? Besic ٢m, and Barry ٠m. New contracts have cost us, probably in the region of ١-5m?

Also bear in mind, that the massive hike in TV monies are on the table for the next three years – netting all PL clubs around 𧴜m!

Hull & Newcastle will have spent more than us by the time window closes, so letÂ’s not get carried away with the Lukaku deal.

We don’t know at this point whether a new ground announcement is in the pipeline, but if not – there should be more cash available for squad strengthening.

We donÂ’t know if there will be a new ground, just tit bits of information every now and again.

We donÂ’t know what is happening with Barkley or the other 2 long term injuries.

We donÂ’t know why we bought Besic as he canÂ’t get a game.

Will we ever know I ask myself?

Biggest problem area is centre back. Distin, Jags, Alcaraz all on the wrong side of 30 and none of them strike me as a great option to partner Stones.

Even last season we had to do it. We had around 㿇M left over from sales which weÂ’ve used this summer to sign players, as well as a bit from the extra TV money but also weÂ’ve given new terms to a number of players and the manager which will all add up!

Rom is apparently our highest earner on 㿲-75k a week, we werenÂ’t paying him that last year as part of the loan deal! Barry as signed on for around 㿨k a week apparently, Barkley is meant to be on similar wages, Martinez will be up there as well, Stones will be on a fair crack now, even Coleman will be on a good crack now, so a lot of the new TV money will of gone on financing all that.

People seem to forget that no-one on our board finances anything at the club: revenue and future income does, so whilst people think what extra money comes in from the new TV deal should go into the kitty, it actually all won’t – it goes on running costs, wages and facility improvements etc, like it always has.

Back to the original story though, unless EtoÂ’o drops his wage demands to a reasonable 㿞-60k a week then we wonÂ’t be in for him. And IF Man Utd are willing to loan Welbeck, then I think weÂ’ll be definitely interested but I read they donÂ’t want to loan their players out to a top 7 club. So if we had to buy him, then I donÂ’t believe we could afford him!

I think we could revisit the loan deal for Traore before the window closes. Martinez does like him and I think Traore would jump at the chance to come back and I think that one could possibly happen.

I think weÂ’ll see Henen sign and Traore on loan and thatÂ’ll be us for this window. IÂ’d be pleasantly surprised if there was more!

Criticising Martinez about not bringing Besic on as a sub, Traore not coming etc is without knowing what these players are like off screen in a team environment and is to simplify situations too much.

Besic apparently has been trouble of one sort of another in teams he has played in the past, maybe Roberto is now regretting buying the guy.
Maybe Traore decided he didnÂ’t fancy playing for us, we donÂ’t know!

I think we have all seen good, even top class players moved on because they were trouble off the pitch, thereÂ’s lots of stuff goes on at clubs that we donÂ’t get to know about at the time or ever after!

We definitely need a couple or three experienced players in, that will be ready to challenge for a 1st team place from the off, thatÂ’s easier said than done though, but IÂ’ll be very surprised if we donÂ’t add to the squad at all.

We need a playmaker midfielder also but maybe Besic can do that for us. LetÂ’s hope the scouts have done their job and found a new Everton hero.

I would like to think if Gibson, Oviedo and Kone are deemed capable of playing in atleast a dozen games before December then we would have needed no new additions.

BarkleyÂ’s injury has changed things. On another thread the manager speaks of him being out for 8 weeks. A striker to rotate with Lukaku is therefore a must, as Nais will now find himself playing behind the main target man for much of those games. I also think we donÂ’t do that well when Nais is playing as the front man - teams tend to push up knowing he canÂ’t win balls aerially / does not have the pace to run in behind them. Can Atsu play centrally? He looks much stronger than I thought.

He also needs players for now not next year and to get them he needs Billy and the board to give him the money. A decent centre half that can jump, a striker to give Lukaku competition and a proper back up keeper. I think the current position we are in in the league table is where we will finish up this year if we keep leaking goals.

We have too many players that are past it or just not good enough for a proper top four challenge. Distin, Jagielka, McGeady, Pienaar. Robles, Alcaraz, Hibbert and Osman just arenÂ’t good enough for that level. I fear for us on Europe and think it will be a short experience if we donÂ’t properly invest in decent players.

Yes we did play well in parts in both our opening games but we let teams come back at us too easily. We have a softness about us and this encourages teams to run at us. Who we will bring in I donÂ’t know but Roberto keeps talking about the right personality and character. Well maybe we need to redefine that and bring in a couple of nasty sods that will drive us on for 90 minutes and at the same time put the fear into the opposition.

Another speedy striker would always be welcome at the right price because of the injury problems that can arise especially Mirallas who is EvertonÂ’s speed merchant if you donÂ’t count Seamus. If and when Kone is fully fit I think he is just going to be a bit player given his age.

Some really tough games coming up but Everton have usually risen to the occasion for these so the next few weeks are crucial for picking up points hopefully winning ones.

I believe (money permitting) that we should be looking at making a signing that can offer much variation rather than simply a back up striker.

I personally feel heÂ’s underrated due to both his nationality and the stigma of starting off in the lower leagues. HeÂ’s deserved and been ready for a move to a real Premier League team for a while now. He might not have lightening pace or the physical strength to play as an out and out target man but, if youÂ’re looking for someone to finish off all that fancy approach play that often goes to waste, then heÂ’s a good fit. HeÂ’s about one thing only... goals. That chance Mirallas fluffed to make it 2-0 on Saturday would have been nestling in the back of the net if it fell to him.

At 㾸m, youÂ’re paying over the odds for someone unproven at the top level, but compared to the rumoured 㾻m-㿀m for Wellbeck? Suddenly doesnÂ’t look such a bad deal.

Wellbeck is a runner, lacking any cleverness or killer instinct. HeÂ’s an Andy Cole who doesnÂ’t score goals. For sure, heÂ’ll run around a lot, work until his tongueÂ’s hanging out and come back to help when someoneÂ’s in trouble but so will fucking Lassie when let off her lead. DoesnÂ’t make him a top class footballer equipped to lead the line for club and country though does it?

I think the club had banked on bringing Traore back on loan, but that wouldnÂ’t appear to be on the horizon, with the amount of strikers Monaco have let go this summer.

The other striker IÂ’d take a punt on is Connor Wickham. I hope RM has a few strikers in mind maybe someone from Europe. As for the defender issue, IÂ’d go for Micah Richards can play centre half & RB, so good cover for Coleman.

I see Dawson is possibly joining Hull. We surely could have snapped him up to bolster the defence. he is tall, good in the air and a vocal leader.

Welbeck IÂ’m not sure about, whenever IÂ’ve seen him he looks a world beater one minute and utter gash the next, very inconsistent. IÂ’m not sure why but it all seems to have gone quiet on the Traore front as well. After keeping him after he was injured last season, I thought for sure heÂ’d be back with us, strange one that.

I think that he would be an excellent long term signing, if this is possible. With Pienaar, Osman, Barry, Jagielka, Distin, Hibbert Howard and even Baines all around the 30+ mark, to bring in an experienced 23 year old would be excellent business.

Seeing as how they knocked Man United back and swore to keep hold of him, what makes you think Everton would succeed where they seemingly failed?

We have Lukaku, Naismith as strikers currently with, hopefully the option of Kone , to come back. We also have other outfield players to score goals.

I think if we could get the defence sorted we would have a better chance of being in the top 4.

I'd be looking at Nastasic or Richards on loan, or a very cheap offer for Scott Dann. Dier looks the defence signing of the summer at a reported ٢m.

Shawcross is an interesting one, but beyond our budget. He needs to move on, as I have no doubt he could be top class with the right manager.

I'd love either Hernandez and Welbeck on loan, but how much truth is there in this? Our formation utilises one striker generally, and we have Lukaku. Will either want to swap the United bench, for our bench in a good proportion of league games? If we managed either, we would have something different and could play with 2 strikers on occasions. Hernandez is pacey and great in the air, and Welbeck is better technically than generally represented. A loan with an option to buy would be perfect.

I've been harping on for Kagawa for an age, but I doubt it will happen because I it would already have happened and Martinez's comments do not suggest that he wants a playmaker. He is a better playmaker than any of our players, but Martinez likes Naismith (and rightly so) and seems to think he can play in the hole in Barkley's absence.

Our defence didn't crumble or suddenly become utterly incompetent; the problem was getting and retaining possession further forward. Not saying the defending was perfect but the only significant flaws were a failure to stop two crosses coming in and a possible lapse in concentration (which all defenders do at times) with an attacker running beyond the covering midfielder. You have to give Giroud some credit for getting his header in.

None of Vlaar, Shawcross or Dawson (ye gods!) could be guaranteed to have prevented either goal.

Could really become better under RM.

Also, have any reputable sources claimed that Villa knocked United back? I highly doubt the validity of that claim.

Not saying I was exactly thrilled with the defending for the goals (both were essentially preventable) but people are calling for some strange replacements for our latest scapegoats.

I am shocked at how often I see Jags on the deck, trying to get in a last ditch block, which means that he is beaten if it fails. Against Arsenal, when Ramsay waltzed through to score, Osman and Jags threw themselves to the ground, as Ramsay popped one in.
Pienaar like to fall over anywhere on the park, and if he doesn't win the free kick, then the opposition are on the counter.
You should stay on your feet as long as possible.

I did notice that Barry took a heavy blow on the shin, and soon after McCarthy took a hit on the thigh(dead-leg) and from then on we were less tenacious, and gave them more room.

It seemed to me that Arsenal decided to target our two most important players, and it worked.
There is nothing like a nasty nuisance in the middle of the park, who can just stay out of the book, and on the right side of the ref. Peter Read springs to mind, as does Dennis Wise and Lee Catamole, to name a current player.

Perhaps Besic could be that man?

Jim Knightley,
Kagawa is a decent shout, excellent player with Borussia Dortmund before he went to Old Trafford and had a respectable goal return, however, I like Ki Sung Yeung who Swansea loaned out last season. Did very well against us, not a prolific goalscorer though but a terrific engine and eye for a killer pass.

John Daley @48
Sorry, John, you're talking bollocks. Lassie's crap at tracking back. Can't pass a corner flag, either.

Now we demand to beat the Big Guns. Roberto Martinez has raised the bar and with it fan expectations which is a great thing .Also the football we play is light years ahead of what it was under the last manager.

Get a grip. Two tricky games played and still unbeaten. Try to remember how far we have come in such a short period of time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ed3_SbXIqqk

I can't agree Kone is pedestrian at all. Look at his goals for Wigan the season before last.

He scored 12 Prem goals in a side that went down and as you can see from this, he has pace in abundance. I can't understand the negativity around him, anybody can get injured its just bad luck.

He can play off the shoulder and gets in behind which is something we currently lack, we miss killer pace upfront. Lukaku can but doesn't much and he doesn't have the pace Kone has. Kone also scores plenty of poacher goals in the box and gets on the end of crosses.

I'd go as far as to say had he have been fit last year we'd have def made CL. He's a big loss for me and if he can get back to where he was - granted it'll take a good 4/5 months we could have a good 2/3 seasons return from him imho.

Peter#75, doesn't surprise me at all about them Utd fans and their opinions, the likes of Welbeck and Cleverley are targets for the boo boys there and no matter how they play they will always be 'shit' because they've already made their minds up, both of them would be better getting out of there and I wouldn't be surprised to see both thrive at a new club.

On another note even though we have had a dodgy start we have at times played some lovely stuff, so I'm in the glass half full column, it could be worse after all, look at spongebob square heads start at Utd, or melty faced start back in the PL with QPR!

You are right that anyone can get an unlucky injury, and the last time he played for us he looked certain to score when he hit the woodwork.

However he is nowhere near as pacy as Lukaku.

Sorry for the tone I’m still annoyed at the substitutions.

Jagielka had a good game overall, yes he miss timed his jump for their second goal and Distin proably thought jags was going to clear it and didnt do enough to stop Giroud who took his chance extreemly well.

Yes Cazorla could have been clozed down a bit better but it was a quality ball by him and I cant fault our central defenders for that

For me any money we may or may not have needs to go on a back up striker

Ruddy
Coleman Dier Mustafi Baines

Not very shabby, eh?

What about some of our young players, McAleny-Duffy-Browning-Long-Garbutt-Lundstam-Kennedy (on loan I know), will they feature in any prem. games, are any of them good enough?
Garbutt is vying with both Baines and Oviedo for a place which must be disheartening for the lad, he is talented but it looks like he'll have to leave.

My pick of the others is McAleny, Browning, Long, Lundstam in that order.
The trouble is at a club like ours it never seems to be the right time to take a chance and stick 1 or 2 of them in important matches!

His injury's a bad one, so just hope he can come back.

I'm personally happy with Eto - didn't he get 12 or more mainly coming off the bench last year.Granted he won't can't do many 90 mins and will be used sparingly, but he's a world class finisher and back up option, if we have any injuries.

Any tall tough hairy centre backs?

When players arrive in a new country it often takes time to get used to many aspects of life, such as the climate, the culture and the language. Not everyone settles down in a few weeks. Just look at any number of Spurs players last season. I hope that Besic settles quickly, but maybe RM sees him being in need of a little nurturing, so he avoids unnecessary pitfalls. I don't mind your tone, you are only saying what you think, which is fine by me.

Eto'o, can even Mr Phenomenal make something of him?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28930641

Not one I would have hoped for, but maybe Roberto knows he can get what is required out of him.

He is certainly dangerous and must have quality or else he would never have played where he has....

Although Milan are favourites.

I'm at the stage were anybody seems better than nobody. I don't rate Welbeck as highly as some do but I think he is good enough to boost our squad; it seems an even bet that Eto'o could either be brilliant for us or a complete waste of space. Smacks of a desperation signing to me which really disappoints me although it has to be recognized that our probable lack of money makes it a tough market to operate in. Had hoped for something more in the way of a gamble on a little known prospect. Not sure the Recruitment Department is firing on all cylinders.

He won't play 90 mins but with 3 other strikers here he doesn't need to.

World Class finishers are short in abundance and regardless of age, he is that, just can't do regular 90 minute games now.

Use him wisely and he could turn out to be a top signing.

Points about his attitude are a concern - just have to hope for the best with that.

RobertoÂ’s first big cock up if itÂ’s true. Watched him for Chelsea a few times last season he is finished... Please fail medical.

As for Et'o being Roberto's 'first big cock up', I assume we are ignoring Alcaraz, Kone and even Robles to an extent?

So I would say that maybe Tony, like me doesn't see those three as 'big' cock-ups. He obviously feels that, relatively speaking, the signing of Eto'o will be in a class of it's own. I didn't watch Eto'o much last season so can't really comment on his form, but I don't think that it is necessarily directly transferable to this season as we may need to use him as more of a work-horse than he has latterly been used to.