Stones starts for England

It could be Phil Jones doing his impression of a right back? He's played in that position a number of times before. Better that than Stones being asked to fill in there on his full debut.

Some of you are happy tearing strips off Jagielka as though he is some nobody or a kopite. Jags is our Club Captain and a loyal servant who didnÂ’t murmour one single word a few seasons back when Arsenal tried to rattle his cage and steal him from us.

Jags has been brilliant for us for years now and is far from washed up, although I will admit he is struggling massively at the moment for some recent form. I feel this has clearly been brought on by his duty at the World Cup; none of our national players came out of this competition with any credit. Loss of form after a major tournament is something that in the past has affected many players from all around the globe at every different level, not just Phil Jagielka. IÂ’d like our fans to bear this in mind when talking down about our captain!

IÂ’d also like people to note that our poor defending is not all down to one man; we have conceded 10 goals from only 14 shots on target, which is not a flattering stat for Tim Howard, who in turn had a great World Cup. Also, Distin (who did not even go to teh World Cup) is out of form, along with Baines and Coleman not fully firing either.

Also, Barry is starting to look 33 at this time too... which is worrying since he has been handed a 3-year deal and is barely a month into it.

Again, please consider the above next time one of you choose to disparage our players; please be little a more loyal Blues.

After all that is said, I also feel now is most definitely the right time to put Stones into our team at centre-half, probably itÂ’s right that he plays with Distin for now also. That said, I still feel that in time Jagielka will come around and return to some decent form; considering we have up-and-coming Europa and Carling Cup games, he will get plenty of chances.

Right IÂ’ve had my rant. Onto StonesÂ’s England selection: I too hope he is played in his better position of centre-back as he does look slightly lost at right-back, in my opinion. Jones is a big yard dog and couldnÂ’t lace StonesÂ’s boots so surely it is he who should be shifted over to right-back and not Stones... but, with Woy at the helm, who knows! No matter where heÂ’s put, though, I wish him all the best.

Stones lost his England U21 RB position to Jenkinson but he should be ok with Cahill and Henderson providing cover. He just has to remember to keep things simple and not be caught too far out of position. Injuries to Johnson and the Spurs guy have pushed him up the order and I hope he manages to impress. These chances don't arrive too often.

I remember Labone went through a similar crisis of confidence around 1967ish and was stinking the place out; we knew it and he knew it. But then, as now, there was no real alternative, with the only viable challengers, Kenyon, Hurst, Darcy, not ready or suited or good enough to step up to the main role.

(Again as I remember,) He took the step of thinking out loud in the press about retirement at the end of the season. The effect was almost Instantaneous, it was like signing a new player. Maybe Jagielka should start with the International scene and take some of the mental load off

Good times are coming, guys. It's been a tough start, but if there was ever a manager that I'd want in charge of this group, it'd be Roberto. I have faith we'll still be smiling when we look back on this season come May, just like I have faith that Stones is gonna make us proud on the international level down the road.

Good Luck, Stonesy, but most importantly, stay healthy buddy. We need ya.

However (LOL) this is a John Stones thread and I wish him luck and...frankly he should've been in Brazil anyway. Good luck Mr. Stones, and come back to us healthy and hungry.

e.g. Lukaku is now shite and Naismith is brilliant.

Always been a fan of both, by the way. I was confident Naisy would come good, and even more so with Lukaku.

I donÂ’t think he has ever been suited to international football anyway... well, not in the way that Stones should be, but heÂ’s a proven top Premier League defender, who is going through a bad time at the minute, and I donÂ’t know how going away with England is going to help his game.

Put the lad at centre half and give Clyne a shot at right back.

We all know that Hodgson is going to play Stonesy at RB tonight and if he has a stinker the media will be all over him. I used to hate it when our lads were overlooked for the England team, now I cringe when I see them chosen for the squad.

He may have started as a right back but he is certainly a centre half now and the games he has played at right back are his worst for us.

Usual rubbish from an England Manager, popular choices thrown into the wrong positions just so he looks like he is one with the people...

Typical England team, picked like a "Fantasy Football XI", no regard to where players' true strengths and potential lies, just sling eleven names on a sheet and let's see what happens.

John Stones is not even Everton's first choice at CH let alone RB! Yet there he is making a start for the normally shambolic national XI.

Case in point is the new Captain, Wayne Rooney, continually slated for his England performances, yet where is he played? Bloody anywhere. Rooney's biggest fault by far is his eagerness to just play, consequently he has never forged a definitive role for Man Utd nor England.

Now Stones will be the next sacrificial blood on the altar of national football... Great potential, but FFS that won't be advanced one iota by playing out of position for the terminally & perpetually dysfunctional world ranked 20th England side.

No Thanks!

As for the game, well 35,000 expected crowd says it all.

For me, the game of the weekend is Gibraltar vs Poland.

IÂ’ve not seen Stones have a good game for us at full back. I can only recall Leicester this year where he was suspect at times and the nightmare derby last season. At least it provides some interest in an otherwise meaningless game.

With regard to Jags, I would be happy to see him left out of England squads in the future so he can concentrate on getting back to his best for us.

The bottom line is he's not yet ready to play in the Prem. or Internationals, in my opinion. He's being pushed to hard, John needs more games, yes but in less important matches.
If we're not careful, the lad's confidence will be badly affected, as is Jags.

I'm pleased for Stones though, as long as he plays in position and doesn't become the fall guy for a crap England performance.

Ridiculous decision by Hodgson.

LetÂ’s hope our manager is listening.

My main worry however, this being Everton and things being as they are, is that young Stonesey gets an injury then we really are in the soup. Just come back in one piece, lad!

Just go through the constant cock-ups of our senior players. Now that is some think to worry about!

Nice to know we also have Tylas Browning, Galloway and Luke Garbutt.

Please don't break him.

Yours Sincerely
Everton FC

This strikes me as being a fairly weak Â’defenceÂ’ of Jags and, bear with me, somewhat inconsistent:

(1) This is the Â’defenceÂ’. Do we know who he is: our club captain and "loyal servant"? IÂ’m sorry, thatÂ’s not good enough. He is not untouchable and he is not beyond criticism. Captain? Sure.

(2) The World Cup! What this "he lost his confidence in Brazil" line conveniently forgets is that he was not very good before the World Cup and was clearly lacking in confidence or whatever before he got on that plane. Yes, June made things worse... but it was not the starting point.

(3) "Jags has been brilliant for us for years now." That’s an opinion and everyone is entitled to their opinion but I happen to think that ’brilliant’ is somewhat over the top and that he has not been ’brilliant’ for quite a while now – the one exception being Old Trafford last December.

(4) This I am afraid is a real unfortunate turn of argument: "Again, please consider the above next time one of you choose to disparage our players; please be little a more loyal Blues." This drives me nuts! ’loyal Blues’ cannot criticize or slam (which in these words is translated into ’disparage’. Along the same lines, we have the same old same old chestnut trotted out by Christopher Wallace – 14: "You have to take into account how fickle some of our fans are..." Forgive me, what rubbish! The old deadly twins, lack of loyalty and fickle, because? Because a quite significant quota of ToffeeWebbers rightly and nearly always respectfully point out PJ’s evident frailties – I watched the match again yesterday, he was simply awful, and that slip-up for Costa’s legitimate disallowed goal was pub footie – and ask for him to be dropped.

(5) And then oddly named Mr Dwyer does the same thing; asks for PJ to be dropped and brought back through the Europa League – banished to the Europa League?!?!, not even some of his most fierce detractors have said this!

(6) And if not Jags, let’s aim our fire elsewhere! Hang on, folks, it’s not all Jags, let’s have a pop at Howard, Distin – "who did not even go to the World Cup" – Coleman, Baines. Barry... Is he being ’fickle’, Mr Wallace?

(7) It’s the tone – ironic in a post knocking others about tone. PJ is criticized and I suppose ’lampooned’ "as though he is some nobody or kopite". Jaysus! Highly questionable broad descriptions again! And show me anyone anywhere who calls PJ one of those things or give examples that merit these descriptions? Hoofer/howler?

(8) Mr. Dwyer comes to the same conclusion as just about everyone else, the difference in this ’defence’ is his sense of respect. The difference in this post he thinks is a ’humanity’ defence of ’loyal’ PJ – our skipper: "I’d like our fans to bear this in mind when talking down about our captain!" PJ is a fairly verteran (by now) professional football and grown up on sky-high wages, well rewarded for his ’loyalty’. He derserves criticism as much as the next player. Damn, I’m so ’fickle’!

Beyond doubt, Jags is out of form. Whether it's a World Cup hangover, a physical issue, a loss of confidence or the damn-fool way Roberto was using him on Saturday (let's offside trap one of the best and most experienced forwards in the world, what could go wrong?) is pointless speculation -- for whatever reason, he's lost the aggression that has been his signature for seven years. He'll get it back -- certainly not over the hill at 32.

I'm just not sure Stones is the immediate answer to the problem. His gifts are obvious, but he has previously shown a predilection for galloping out of position, and his idea of marking a man is... uh... let's just say loose and leave it at that.

The four-games-in-11-days stretch that follows the international break should be instructive, because we'll no doubt see plenty of both Stones and Alcaraz during that period. If Jags can't get his feet back under him, Roberto will have some tough decisions to make for the Derby.

Yep, Bobby has to earn his nice fat pay check over the next few weeks with some bold and tough decision-making and yep hopefully weÂ’ll see, as MG says, some switching around in central defence to see where we stand after the next four games.

Confession: IÂ’m a little nervous about it all!

What I will say in support of our defence is that they now have a more difficult task than when managed by Moyes.
Roberto wants them to be proactive, which leaves them exposed much more than playing a more defensive game.

As far as not bringing in a defender or a goalkeeper, maybe he's tried and couldn't find anyone available or affordable that are better than we have.
Its not like he's managing City, Chelsea, Utd or our neighbours where they can afford anyone in the world.

Roberto obviously believes that the best form of defence is attack which I also believe is the best way to go in general, now you could argue that we don't have enough quality personnel when we come up against the 'money clubs' but we did better than ok last season playing in a proactive way.
We almost pulled it off against Arsenal but it backfired against Chelsea on Saturday, I have a feeling though that Chelsea will dish the same medicine to a few more clubs this season.

The bottom line is do we believe that man for man we match the usual top 4 finishers, and being honest I have to say not quite.

Yes Raymond, despite two DMs, the new system is causing defenders more trouble than anticipated and I should imagine they will be working to put things right at Finch Farm. Mr Jones and the coaches have made it their main priority but because of the break, they are only able to instruct the non-internationals.

I would definitely like to see him played more regularly for us, maybe if he proves his worth tonight, that may happen. Although, barring injury, I can't see Roberto dropping Jags for Stones, but we will see.

Yet PJ was club captain, in one of the preferred areas on the pitch for a captain - centre-mid - and one of the more experienced players in the squad. But his name did not feature in the discussion. I'm listening to 5-Live rightnow discussing the pick of skipper and PJ is nowhere.

Strange?

Perhaps. Not really though. He is, quite simply, not skipper material: not vocal enough, not assertive enough, not loud enough, not in-yer-face enough.

Yep, as club captain, as Ant Dwyer writes, he deserves a measure of respect, but in my humble opinion - often wrong - he would not be the skipper on the pitch in an ideal blue world.

Well said.Spot on.

Jags is one of the best centre backs in the Premier League, a captain by example and a model professional. He will come good again – and very soon.

Anyone else thinks Welbeck has looked ok here?

Certainly seems to be able to run more with the ball than Lukaku?

I do not want to argue this point until blue in the face. I do agree with you that Jags, like anyone else, is allowed his share of criticism. I just feel like all I had read or heard of late is solely aimed at Jags or Lukaku. After reading over your points, I feel I maybe should answer you.

1: Club Captain and ’loyal servant’ does not completely rule him out of criticism but, come on, mate – some of the talk is saying he is completely washed up!

2: "Lost his form in the World Cup."Yes, I think he did. You claim he lost it before but can I remind you he played most of last season and we got a record points tally without hardly spending a penny on improving the side! Must have been doing something right.

3: "Jags has been brilliant for years now."
This is my opinion but if itÂ’s wrong can you please tell me how we built such a solid platform ? We certainly have not banged in 100Â’s of goals to gain our points tally IÂ’d say itÂ’s been built on a solid base with jags at the core.

4: "Agian this is just simply down to respect." Granted he is out of form but I think there are more fair and decent ways to put points across addressing this point.

5: "Oddly named." I liked this the best! Have you not heard this name before? Ant is short for Anthony, Dwyer is a surname!! I have said Jags is not in form. I feel he should take a back seat for a couple of Premier League games where the pace seems to currently be a bit to much and I feel that Jags can get his sharpness back in Europa League games. Not sure whatÂ’s hard to get your head around there!

6: I do not feel IÂ’m being fickle on this point, I feel IÂ’m showing facts to prove that our poor defending is a group matter as much as a Jags matter. (10 goals in 14 shots on target proves my point.)

7: ????? What ???????

8: I agree with this point largely, believe it or not. I am on the same page as most fans in thinking Jags should be dropped. I do agree that he wonÂ’t be on ToffeeWeb anytime soon. I do agree heÂ’s big ugly and rich enough to have these things written about him. But I do not feel it is correct to give him the abuse he is receiving. HeÂ’s had a terrible press of late all over: pundits, newspapers and kopites. I feel we should be bigger and better than them and show loyalty to our long-standing loyal players, especially the ones who have played to the level of jags.

Nothing personal, Paul , but you wrote a big chapter in response to my post, so I felt you deserved some sort of response from me in return.