Everton trio help England get off to winning start

Having said that, Jags was great when he got on tonight. Like his old self. I hope itÂ’s a sign of things to come if he does stay in the side, but Stones to me looks a natural. What a snip he was.

Can anyone please explain to me why Jack Wilshere is rated so highly? He couldn't even connect on a simple five-yard pass half the time; over-rated would be an understatement.

Next season for us, Stones and Galloway may be our regular CB combination, I wouldn't be surprised at all.

Everton’s two full-backs played very well but the main thing is they didn’t get injured (I hope).

Wilshere and Rooney looked more like their old selves tonight and it was good to see Welbeck finding his scoring boots again.

Martinez would be wise to do some rotating of centre-back's, giving the two older members some rest time in-between games. Jags especially and Distin to some extent have looked tired of late and could do with some rest time.

Maybe, just maybe, it's our manager's tactics/ philosophy that's at fault ?

.......retires to don tin hat.

As for tonight's game, I agree with you, Kevin, he looks far better in the centre where he could bring the ball out and start attacks. If only Ross Barkley was fit, he would've been a cert to play and I think England miss his services.

Jack Wilshere looked poor, but I suppose they will improve with more game time in an England shirt. All told, a win was the priority.
.

All the Everton lads did well enough tonight. Jags looked great when he came on. Baines was his normal busy self and if I was him I'd be pretty pissed at the number of times he was ignored when making good runs. Stones looked as cool as he normally does but was caught out of position a couple of times. He isn't a right back though.

I think it says more about the state of English football when England's right back is Evertons third choice centre-half.

Jags came on and was straight into the fray, making blocks and headers immediately. Milner also was better than Wilshere who has not improved since he was a youngster. The lad has decent ball control but is wayward in his distribution and lacks pace.

John will be a top player in a year or so, but I think he's in danger of being pushed too hard before he is truly ready. His positional play is all over the place at times.

Okay, you could argue that playing him is the only way he is going to get the experience. Yes, it is, but I would play him in our perceived easier games, and then don't expect him to be faultless!

I know there's the left / right thing but it seems with Barry and Baines playing leftish the worst thing, would be to nullify Baines forward threat by drawing him back. Play a true winger in front of Baines and the balance comes back, in a different guise.

Not sure I buy into the whole hacking to have a lefty in the centre thing either ...

Alan Green was likewise but John Murray said nothing. Nobody said anything about Sterling's inability to pass in attacking areas. I am amazed that Andy Townsend on ITV actually seems insightful in comparison!

Phil Walling – I agree on the irony, however three games into the season it’s too early to make those judgment calls. If we’re still conceding an average of 3 goals a game come Christmas time I might be more inclined to agree.

YouÂ’ll do for me. Anyone who tells the truth can do no wrong for me.

Carry on putting your tuppence worth in. I think you do okay.

It wasn't an allegation, only a thought that our defenders aren't as crap as so many thought last week.

Since when was ANY manager beyond even a hint of criticism?

I think a lot of people accept that there is probably more pressure on some positions than the way OFM played, but that is the price to pay for increasing your attacking options and the players handled it for the vast majority of the time last season. Some of the mistakes they have made so far this season have been particularly extreme errors of judgement. A professional footballer shouldn't be prone to regular extreme mistakes.

Jags has looked ropey at times whoever he has been playing for recently. Hopefully it is a temporary thing and he will regain his form and confidence very soon.

Of course, all he was doing was what he does best. Clearing his line. For Everton he would have pissed about "trying to find a pass"!

Chucking himself about heroically is a particular strength of his though, so hopefully that will also help him start picking the right passes and the best time to try to play an attacker offside again.

I also thought that today he was defending very narrow, he ended up being in the CB position rather than RB giving the man on the wing so much room and time to decide where he wanted to play it in.

Yes he's got lots of time to improve, but I feel less confident about him than I did at the end of last season... am I alone in that?

"In all the first three games we've played we've had some bad luck in defense"

Yeah, that 'll be it, Kevin.

Hopefully they all come back healthy and ready to carry on the good work at the Hawthorns.

However...he will be a star at centre back!

I thought Wilshere was rubbish, considering he was supposed to be the lynchpin connecting defence to midfield.

People are saying Switzerland are a hard team to beat, but, well they are only Switzerland. I think if England had played like that against Germany or Holland it would have been carnage.

Also, I thought the vastly over-hyped Sterling came crashing down to earth with a poor performance. I thought Henderson did okay and Welbeck was our MotM. Jags looked completely assured when he came on and made the defence gel again.

How that Behrami, the lad with streaks, stayed on the pitch I will never know. He should have been cautioned on 3 occasions at least.

Anyway, justice done; well done, Engerland....

I think McGeady is similar to McFadden in some ways, both with the ability to produce something magic every now and then.

The problem with McFadden was that these moments were few and far between and his overall contribution was questionable at times. Seemed to lack a great deal of desire I felt. LetÂ’s hope McGeady can deliver with more consistency.

As for Stones, he looked stronger (physically) last night which will help his development as a CB. He’s not a RB, which is why his positioning was off at times. But RB is a tough, specialist role to play – as good as someone like Vidic, Terry etc have been over the last decade, you wouldn’t ever have seen them comfortably slot in at full back.

Welbeck looked almost like a footballer last night. Quite impressed with Delph, particularly after getting booked so early to not get another one. I was concerned Hodgson didnÂ’t take him off but it also showed a lot of trust in him that will give him confidence.

All in all, quite a lot of positives but the defence is still not right. Cahill ballooned the ball away a few times, his passing was terrible.

What has now been established is that the manager has NO responsibility for their profligacy.

I thought Bainsey looked much more at home in a set up that allowed him to get fwd, now all we need is the "diamond" boys in midfield to pass the ball to him.

Jags did very well when he came on didnÂ’t he. But to read some of these comments here youÂ’d think some had cancelled Christmas by the reaction to criticism of our start to the season defensively. ItÂ’s not just these last three games. Towards the end of the last campaign we shipped a few goals and even when winning looked uneasy at the back, making stupid mistakes and gifting teams like Southampton three points when it really counted.

WeÂ’ve been aweful at the back so far this season and itÂ’s ok to say that, itÂ’s not dis loyal for pityÂ’s sake it is just obvious ! Does it mean last years third best defence is now crap ? I donÂ’t think so, but it does suggest Stones needs a run at CB and a brave decision needs making. It equally suggests Barry and McCarthy need to take a breath and perhaps sit a little deeper to protect against runs and stop the build up possession which often leads to crossing opportunities and frankly we havenÂ’t defended well enough in the air so.....

WeÂ’ve a couple of games coming up that in the circs are more important than otherwise might have been. Need two solid wins with clean sheets please !

Personally I donÂ’t mind John Stones playing right back for England; despite several hiccups, he came through it really well and will definitely get better.

As for Baines, he was class; he made some cracking passes with some great runs –should have received the ball a lot more though. All bodes well for the weekend and I am sure Bobby M will get us back on side again!

By the way AidenÂ’s goal the other night was a pure joy to watch!!

COYTofffeeeees!

I thought it might stop when old creasehead hung up his boots, but no! The new redshite belter, Henderson, suddenly has a blind spot for the left wing too.

The less said about the diver Stirling the better...

Defending-wise, again, no problem: good team shape, great cover to his centre-half all night. Also, great recovery when danger was around. Yes, distribution could have been better! Also maybe more positive in the last third of pitch. Just remember, this young lad had to cover the right flank on his own! So he played like a wing back with very little support from that tit from the dark side.

Baines had a great game, going forward and defending. I believe he was excellent all night. Both our boys who played the 90 mins can be proud of their performances.

The big weakness for me is in defensive midfield. ItÂ’s all very well taking pot shots at Gerrard but, in fairness, the players coming in donÂ’t have his presence, nor that of the other retiree, Lampard. We saw last night that Wilshere was not adept at receiving the ball from his defenders, and this led to Jones and Cahill having to look to their full backs, thus bringing the inevitable "to you, to me" phase into play and slowing the game.

As for England, the midfield formation didnÂ’t really work, but the team has speed to burn and always looked dangerous on the break. A win against Switzerland away from home is not to be sniffed at.

Yes, if you play attacking football, the likelihood is you will concede more goals unless your defenders are supermen, it stands to reason. By the same token, you should increase your chances of scoring more!

What shall we do, go back to MoyesÂ’s preferred tactics? I donÂ’t think you will get much support for that scenario on here.

I have no idea why, yes, the defence failed to stop GerrardÂ’s passes to opposition attackers, Baines was usually the only England player left of the centre spot in the England half, and the cross to Suarez for the first Uruguay goal was absolute perfection. However, I think poor Phil took it all badly.

I hope that this will rekindle his confidence, and that a rotation of Distin, Jagielka and Stones will result in an impenetrable confident and dominating defence

As Raymond Fox (57) quite correctly pointed out, with a more attacking mentality it is inevitable that the opposition will also have more opportunities themselves. Obviously we donÂ’t want to concede six at home or concede late equalizers in games we have dominated, but if the choice is grounding out dull 1-0 wins or taking more of a risk and winning 6-5, occasionally drawing 10-10 and losing the odd game 10-12 then I will take take the higher score-lines, as long as we are winning more often than not.

When I go to work on a Monday morning, I rarely brag about clean sheets, itÂ’s goals that get me going and under Martinez that is what we are going to see. If that means the occasional rout, then so be it. My focus is on the points tally at the end of the season and the enjoyment I get along the way, not having the meanest defensive record in the league, though that is also something to be proud of.

IÂ’m sure our defence will tighten up over the next few games as the Chelsea game will focus attention on this weakness. We obviously have the players capable of defending effectively, last season proved that, they just need to focus and believe in their own abilities. Hopefully this international break will give them the opportunity to regroup and come back stronger.

Regarding Martinez, I donÂ’t see him as the messiah and without his faults. The pre-season was clearly flawed and has not given us the best of starts but he will learn from his mistakes.

As for the Wigerton jibes, yes, Wigan were relegated playing pretty football but conceding too many goals, but that is Wigan. Perhaps Martinez should have been more pragmatic there and followed a the Pulis model at Stoke, survive by any means. Martinez gambled and lost, but I respect him for sticking to his principles.

We are Everton and we have the personnel and resources to rectify any deficiencies. If we are not in the top six at the end of the season, I will be truly shocked. Only time will tell, but IÂ’m still filled with confidence for the future and a couple of disappointing results arenÂ’t going to change my belief that Martinez is taking this club places (other than the Championship).

Roy has heard all the commentators and journalists lauding his talent and that he is the future, so let’s find a place for him and, hey presto, we are short of a right back – let’s put him there... that way, he is in a win-win situation. Maybe he doesn’t think he is good enough to play as a central defender yet and this is his way of accommodating John Stones into the team?

Either way, in one way I am glad he is getting the experience in the company of other good English players but I hope, if he plays half decent in that position, he doesnÂ’t get the tag of just a versatile back player with no exact role.

Our penalty area looked like Aintree after the last race on Ladies day last week and the week before that and the week before that. Yet Three of our defenders were able to shut out a team ranked top ten in the world last night? IsnÂ’t it logical to ask why?

Regarding the nub of your comment, the problem here is that you canÂ’t compare apples to apples because ChelseaÂ’s team, with the likes of Diego Costa, Ramires, Hazard and Matic is not comparable to that of Switzerland who didnÂ’t qualify for the second stage at the World Cup and are only in the top 10 in the world thanks to the bizarre way in which FIFA comes up with these rankings.

My take is two-fold:

1. ItÂ’s too soon, after just three matches, to make sweeping claims that Jagielka is done, Distin is finished and weÂ’ve turned into Wigan overnight because weÂ’ve started shipping goals
2. Although Jagielka was guilty of a grave error for ChelseaÂ’s opening goal and there is clearly an issue with how our defence defends corners, most of our problems the weekend before last stemmed from the huge gaps left by McCarthy and Barry for the opposition to move the ball around our penalty area. There is only so much an exposed central defensive pairing can do, IMO.

As far as our lads are concerned, I repeat that whilst we may continue to struggle in the short term, November will see us at full throttle. Reasons already very well chronicled.

I think you are right about Jagielka, but if you are right about Distin too then we are in deep trouble. I so hope you are not.

I also disagree that we have started defending badly overnight, I felt we were really creaking towards the end last season (Palace, Soton, Citeh) but, it simply hasnÂ’t been addressed.

Jagielka, Distin, Baines and Barry are old pros, theyÂ’ll right the wrongs... at least in the short term.

Martinez has got a problem to address. Chelsea do have high quality players, but they didnÂ’t have to work very hard for their goals. ThatÂ’s criminal.

In regards to PhilÂ’s sniping about the defence, itÂ’s not like Martinez is totally ignoring it, all you have to do is go to the official site and see him and Graeme Jones discussing it in interviews and saying that itÂ’s something they are very aware of and are working hard at fixing it.

We have not gone from the 3rd best defensive team in the EPL last season to total dogshit overnight, to think that is just plain ridiculous.

"This group of defenders – the one Moyes assembled and coached – has conceded 39, 40 and 40 in the premiership in the last three seasons. that is incredible consistency.
That they have conceded ten in three opening games after one pre season under Martinez speaks volumes."

Last season, not this, was the first pre-season under Martinez and we only conceded 39 goals. In the past five seasons, Moyes final four and MartinezÂ’ first season, the fewest goals conceded was under Martinez, the most goals scored was under Martinez, and the most points accumulated was under.....you guessed it....Martinez.

"Our entire system is based on us being in possession of the ball; every time we lose it, panic sets in"

We "panic" so much we break our Premier League points record. I hope we continue to "panic" and increase our "panic" levels as we will clearly win the league if we continue to do so!!! OK, a bit tongue in cheek but no more outlandish than DarrenÂ’s assertions.

I feel grubby for biting and getting involved, but such a complete rewrite of history giving Moyes credit for MartinezÂ’ record last season is just silly.

The problem with those sort of posts is that it hijacks legitimate questions about players, management, and tactics. Legitimate concerns raised are always going to be ignored, and indeed "shouted down" when those who need to condemn Martinez for not being Moyes start to post these sort of outlandish and clearly incorrect statements.

I, for one, think Martinez is a great change and breath of fresh air. But, I certainly donÂ’t think he is beyond criticism, nor do most here. ItÂ’s just that when the criticism is this ridiculous it causes polar opposite camps to form and rational debate disappears.