Martinez: We need to address problems as a team

Sorry Roberto they were a shambles - the lot of them. Garbutt and Oviedo were the best of a really bad bunch.

I just wish now and again Martinez would express his feelings in a manner most of the supporters feel. I hope he isn’t as positive and optimistic behind closed dressing room doors as he is with the media.

It’s a team game and the whole team should be bollocked and told what we’re getting is totally unacceptable.

Gosh! Really hate to see some bad moments.

The man is becoming a laughing stock...

After Sunday’s debacle and a truly shocking goalkeeping display what does he do? Gives him the captaincy if that was meant to inspire him it backfired. Because he should have saved the first goal.

Why doesn’t he for once actually apologise to the thousands who took days off work etc and who were short changed by that abysmal performance? No, because they don’t really matter do they? Expect more.

Two seasons ago, when he was Wigan manager and they knocked us out of the cup, he exploited the fact that our defense had a soft center. What has he done to correct this problem? Sold Heitinga and brought in the useless Alcaraz. He got rid of OFM deadwood to make room for deadwood of his own.

In December Baines turns 30. On that day we can put out a team made up entirely of players 30 or more years old.

Howard

Alcaraz Jagielka Distin
Hibbert Baines
Osman Barry Pienaar
Eto’o Kone

Ten years ago, that would have been a decent side... but now, with the exception of Baines, it’s the Antiques Roadshow. Maybe we could sell them and use the money as a down payment on a decent CB because until we get one or even better two good CBs we are royally screwed.

I’m afraid I’m a realist and relegation is the reality of this situation unless Martinez wakes up and solves the problem. 18 goals conceded with 4 in defence and two defensive midfielders beggars belief!

Now some may come on here and say I’m overreacting well if so point out some positives to me because as sure as hell I can’t see any. I’m a fan of Roberto and I don’t want him out but I do expect more from our team than we are getting. Too many players haven’t turned up yet or are inconsistent and that spells trouble.

He was not his usual fluent self and sounded quite agitated at times. Maybe he’s begining to realise this is not Wigan, he’s playing with a big team now, with big expectations and a huge support network.

This is more Martinez’s team now than it was a year ago yet we seemed to be more cohesive and confident when he first came.

To be honest, we look a total mess at the minute and I can’t really see how it’s going to get any better anytime soon because, every game nearly, we make it so so easy for the opposition to score against us. Let’s put it this way you know you have problems when Crystal Palace win TWICE at Goodison in five months, scoring 6 goals.

We haven’t won a home game since last season and have the worst defensive record in the Prem this season.

I don’t need to remind you that Wigan went down with the worst goals against in the Prem and there is general concern that this is a serious blindspot for RM.

When he makes BS comments like "I am not concerned about clean sheets" and "I want players to make mistakes so they can learn from them," I despair.

What lesson can you learn from a mistake that you won’t get bollocked for as a professional? That it is acceptable.

A large number of supporters have seen enough preseason and so far this season to have serious concerns about the spirit and application of the players. Their hearts and heads are somewhere else and that my friend is a recipe for a downward spiral..

I think we will score enough goals against enough teams to accumulate enough points not to be in relegation trouble. But we won’t achieve anything.

Martinez has a massive job to organise a correct balance between attack and defence; he needs to show some cojones and drop the serial under-performers.

I read last week that he would be perfect for Arsenal or Barcelona. Bollocks.

He is getting let down by individual errors and of course he hasn’t helped anyone with his last two team selections. But he is still an inexperienced manager himself and still has a lot to learn, especially with it being his first ever season managing a team in Europe.

He’s raised our expectations massively, "Look at the season ticket sales" but has had a very poor start to the new season. As James has said, he’s an intelligent man who lives and breathes the game of football but he his getting a lot wrong at the minute. We have still played some very good football for me, but he’s definitely got to get tougher with some of his players quickly.

That said, most people were calling for Kendall’s head at the end of 1983 and Everton have only played seven matches so far this season. Remember getting battered in a League Cup match at Coventry when Kendall made the players do a training session after the game because we had been that poor?

I don’t think Martinez could have done that last night because I don’t think he even picked a team to win. Anyway, in our very next fixture, we beat Liverpool 2-0, when everyone had us down to get battered!

Who knows what goes on the background, it will not be a surprise to many of us but it could be a surprise to Robbie. He will get used to it... or maybe he will just walk away.

So, Roberto did what so many other managers do with this Cup, he sent out a lot of players to get them some game time.

It’s 2 days gone now. Looking forward to getting after the RS this weekend. Not as if they’re tearing things up.

Surely after the first 5 games who wouldn’t have expected us to have around 10 points on the board and a healthy goal difference?

Don’t forget — losing (as well as winning) becomes a habit.

Clearly the League Cup was the lowest priority, based on the team, and now it is off the agenda altogether. I’d love to win something, anything, but beating Liverpool in the league is the higher goal this week, and then Man United after that. Both very winnable games in which I expect Jags ad Stones to start, and maybe we’ll see Oviedo as well at some stage.

Now, I have just checked the odds on Paddy Power, and we are now a shocking... 8/1.

It’s a good job some of you don’t support Man Utd, Spurs, or Liverpool. They have all spent £100’s of millions and seem to be heading for the Championship along with us.

Surprised by some of the reaction lads. It’s shit at the moment and I can see where the concern is coming from, but FFS give it a few more games. Who would have thought Man Utd would throw away a 3-1 lead to lose 5-3 at a newly promoted side with the players they have just bought?

It’s at times like this the team needs our support most - not toys out the pram and get rid of everyone. We’ve a great side who will come good, honest!

I’m sure things will get better but I’m not sure it’ll be this weekend.

My question is: Do we have a team ready for a battle? – because that’s what we have on our hands at present. The team are gaining respect for the style of football they play... but so did Wigan. The players need to put a shift in before playing their own game. We have let so many goals in, it’s not individual mistakes but team desire. The team consists of 6 defensive players and 4 attacking players, midfield?

As from this I am concerned and unless the manager addresses this quickly, we will be in a dog fight. Liverpool and Man Utd next which might be a blessing as the players should not need motivating. I would take two 0-0s and solid performances by all. I fear there could be over 4 goals in each game but remember we have not played ten games yet and it could change quickly.

Like me with the signings and squad we have, we expected better but there is plenty of time to turn things around. The experienced players need to stand up and be counted.

If you have trekked halfway ’round the country at great expense to support your team. only to be let down, by ineptitude, then it is taking the piss to talk of fantastic displays!

Tell it like it is Roberto.

So tell me, why oh why is this Cup seen as ’not a priority’ for our small squad, yet the pie in the sky 24-games of the Europa League, and the far more competitive FA Cup, are both seen as priorities?

Last night was the best chance we have to win silverware, and we blew it... because it’s ’low priority’. Our A-squad could have nailed that competition. WHY WASN’T IT A PRIORITY?!?!?!?!?!

Now we have a League mountain to climb, or win the tough Europa League/FA Cup to guarantee Euro footie next season... all with a tiny squad. Madness. Utter madness.

But first he should have a good think about his own role in recent debacles.
Number one problem is that negative unchallenged and totally boring tika taka between our back four and keeper allows opponents time to block avenues to goal.
Second is we have exceptionally fast strong attackers but due to problem number one they are starved of opportunities.
Our third problem is that starting at the back end of last season other teams recognised our problems yet Roberto either did not, would not or could not rectify them.
The ball is in his court and though I am not yet panicking, time is ticking.

Firstly, when talking about Howard, he was answering a specific question regarding whether or not he was worried about the possible psychological impact conceding so many goals could have on him:

"If he (Howard) had been a young goalkeeper or someone that hasn’t got his experience maybe you can think how he might be affected by those experiences. But he is in the best moment of his career and has got the control and experience (to deal with it)".

Then, in terms of the team display and result, he actually said he was disappointed in some individual performances, not that he thought they were ’fantastic’. Okay, he did, admittedly, go on to say later that there were ’many positives’:

"When you lose 3-0 you have to be disappointed with certain individuals, but as a team you don’t expect to be perfect when you make eight changes.

"We are a team that needs to share the demands with the squad. We’ve got 25 players that I’m really proud of and excited about what we have for the future and we need to be able to make changes and still win football matches.

"We are a club that wants to compete in every competition and we need to be able to do it sharing the demands with the squad.

"From an individual point of view, there were many positives, a lot of information and a lot players desperate to help the first team but overall the scoreline is something we could’t get and that’s what we want".

Defence and attack are constantly isolated from one another and neither is capable of support. Only player who can change the status quo is injured. Maybe Gibson can fill a hole for a bit until the prodigal son returns, but with the current set up, we have big problems.

He’s not injured anymore !

As if.

Spot on.

I have it from someone I know that works at Swansea City - it was well known around the club that Roberto has a stern side and chooses to implement it at the right times - hence good man management skills.

He probably feels (imo smartly) that berating the players individually to the press will not help morale.

He did state last week he was really disappointed with the really, really sloppy goals we gave away against Palace.

I do agree however he needs to tone down the over positive remarks after such a comprehensive defeat i.e Swansea.

So was I !!

As with most fans I was anticipating this season with relish. ooohhhh how we are soon brought down to earth with a BIG FUCKING BANG.

I would love nothing better for the team to suddenly turn it around starting with a good performance and a win on Saturday, but the realist in me thinks there will be more doom and gloom.

As for Bobby’s positive spins on his post match interviews, I have to agree that he is insulting the many Everton fans who are knowledgeable. However it’s Bobby’s nature just as it was DM nature to come across glum even after a good win.

Fingers crossed boys and girls it’s going to be a roller coaster ride for the rest of the season. Our poor fingers will be knackered come May.

.

To me it shows good squad management and good squad depth.

It’s just a phase of crap form. Sure as you’re born, we will begin to click and have a run of clean sheets to balance it all out. Leonardo Ulloa has 5 goals in 5 games and our man Nikica Jelavic hit a fucking bike last week for Hull! Is that gonna continue also? Take a deep breath and step away from the ledge.

Surely either one of these would have been chomping at the bit to get some first team action, just look at the youngsters Liverpool had out?

We keep hearing about this fantastic Academy of players and if they are good enough they are old enough but I still so no evidence apart from Barkley.

Tuesday would have been perfect if your looking at making wholesale changes.

I just don’t understand it.

Also not been impressed with McGeady, very flash with no end product. Atsu looking the same but will reserve judgment.

We need a top CB in Jan and bring back Deulofeu on loan if possible.

Would bring in a keeper actually capable of putting pressure on Howard as Robles is just awful.

This thread is about the Spaniard needing to address the current defensive problems but he won’t address them while he baffles us by making silly unforced changes to the line-up. Okay, Coleman was injured for the Palace game... so what does he do? Puts Stones at right back and keeps the aging slow Jagielka and Dustin in the middle. Every Evertonian I know enthuses about Stones at centre back but equally cringes when he has to play full-back.

I just hope Coleman is fit on Saturday because, if the Spaniard opts to play the same back four as last Sunday. we’re in the shit. And the sad thing is, Liverpool are equally as bad as us at the minute but the Anfield derby seems to galvanise them.

Unfortunately, Jennings never appeared for us after he signed as cover. He couldn't have done any worse than Mimms. Southall? Another occasion when International duty went against us.

Jack #56 - the thing is we don’t actually ever put out a team of oldies. We have them, but we don’t play them all at once. We have more than before but I think that is largely because we now have a bigger squad than before and have more senior players, some of whom are older. I just don’t see this as a problem unless we were paying big transfer fees which generally we have not (perhaps Pienaar and Kone are exceptions, although the former pre-dates Martinez and at the time we bought Kone we were without a decent recognised no.1 striker - so that one looks understandable)

The game at this level is fine margins, as many on here have pointed it out. What worries me more is the team selections, tactics and subs. Martinez has got pretty much all of those wrong in every single game. There was no need to rest players against Palace on the back of a 4-1 win with confidence high. That should have been done in the cup.

Now we go into the derby with no continuity and our most in-form players like Naismith and Mirallas not having started for two games. Basic stuff just horribly mis-managed.

Yes he's too optimistic in the face of defeat but the same lot were complaining when Moyes thought we were lucky to win if we did play well. This is Roberto's character, just like that was Moyes's character.

It's also Martinez's style to be attacking. The 4-2-3-1 with Barkley and Pienaar tucking in midfield was more defensive than what is essentially a 4-2-4 now. We're conceding more but, for the first time in a while (the other night aside), consistently scoring.

I think his one mistake is persevering with Distin and Howard like Moyes used to. Play Stones and give Robles a run and we'll be fine. Once we get over this blip, we'll be flying in this league as the quality of our squad is undeniable. I can't believe the flak Martinez is getting. Last year didn't get him much credit in the bank did it?

They are relics, and much too comfortable in their roles as keepers of the old guard. I bet they sit in the changing room back-slapping each other and remembering the good old days when they were taking knives to gunfights and a 50-yard clearance was commendable not lamentable. They have zero ambition, not much more quality, and are not fit to lead this team.

Jagielka is a shocking captain, a lark-about schoolboy who when he's not telling us 'Yeah definitely' is smirking his way through Lukaku's belief we can be a top club. And the man behind them? Howard. Jesus christ, Howard. The Secretary of Defense. No wonder America is done as a superpower. Wouldn't trust him to catch the clap in a Kirkdale whorehouse.

And he is another bottler. Twitching and hollering his way through to a game until he gets the chance to throw out his usual star-jump shapes, that is of course when he's not letting in his favourite near-post squirmers or standing rooted to the spot when a cross reaches the 6-yard box.

Robles deserves a go. He couldn't be any worse. At least give him a CHANCE to do well, instead of the guaranteed screw-up that is Tourettes Tim. The three of them are pathetic and have been directly responsible for almost every goal we've conceded. It's truly laughable.

Martinez has options. Be brave, and use them. I fear he will simply bow to dressing room pressure and play the old favourites. Might some people have been more astute than we gave them credit for when they said he was far too friendly with the players? We shall see. Any combination of those three play Saturday we will concede 3, 4, 5+ goals easily. Mark my words.

As they say, you really couldn't make it up.

"Robles deserves a go. He couldn't be any worse. At least give him a CHANCE"

Thank fuck you're not our manager. I also think that, if we play "any combination of those 3" we'll get mullered. However, play Robles and ANYONE and we'll get spanked out of sight.

Sadly, I can't think of any way we'll get even a point on Saturday and the Shite must be made up to be playing us so that they can get their season back on course. Defeatist? Yep, after watching League derbies since 1962 and Senior Cup ones before that, I'm sort of conditioned to it. So are the players.

Fortunately I'll be in Spain golfing all week and, with luck, won't be able to see the match. There are some RS with us so it'll be bad enough as it is....

I honestly just cannot see the lad ever being more than a back up at the top level. In fairness to him it can't be easy not even getting reserve games but he should have been sent out on loan with an experienced freebie coming in for this season as cover.

I've seen most of his games for us, including friendlies, and he's looked a total liability in all of them.

Howard only promises consistent inconsistency. 9/10 games he will not make any save of note; in the other he will look world class like against Belgium, Swansea away a couple of seasons ago or Wolfsburg the other night. Most other games though he is getting beat at the near post, going to ground too quickly on pens or one on ones, not getting crosses, falling over under easy headers, allowing free kicks to fly in. He is an known liability.

Robles may throw one in his net if played, but his long term form is unknown to us. Our only reference point is his form at Wigan when he ousted Al Habsi and looked good. He could be great or terrible. Howard will certainly be very poor and has already, like the last few seasons cost us needless points. Time to gamble.

Robles, on the other hand, is now 24. Young for a keeper, but not exactly a kid. He's also been over here for a couple of years and should be well settled.

Fact is, while De Gea made himself number 1 at Atletico as a teenager, Robles never managed it. Nor did he ever get regular representative games at junior level. His transfer fee was probably around 5% of De Gea's. To me, all of this, allied to what i've seen with my own eyes, suggests Robles will never be a suitable keeper for a top 6 side.

Yet Robles is never offered the same chance? Why? Because he doesn’t look good in what, 12 random appearances in just over a year? Seriously? Nobody would, ever it’s as fucking simple as that!

The post earlier about De Gea being worth more is ridiculous, nobody is saying he is better than him all they are trying to say is that he deserves a chance to perform week in week out over an extended amount of games (fucking up in everyone and still not getting dropped) just to see If he ever will be capable or ever improve his obvious flaws, because Howard has proved, since 2006 or whatever it was that he will always cost points. joel can be no worse at the minute so why is he not tried? And people talk about players needing confidence so that they don’t make mistakes! Haha unbelievable!

Don’t worry Howard you are as safe as houses, make as many mistakes as you when you want, you will always play. When you need a shock to the system and a big kick up the arse instead of dropping you like anyone should we will make you captain instead!

At least everybody will have an excuse ready when you let in another shed load! He has been absolute shite in every game bar one this season and even in the Wolfsburg game he was made to look better than he was by the outfield players allowing so many chances. He made about 2 really good saves the rest were routine catches or blocks that any tit could have saved (guess what even Joel).

An just for the record I’m not even a fan of Joel, but no way does Howard deserve another game after so many basic errors. No way!

I think De Gea's transfer fee is relevant. James was saying he looked shaky but the manager gave him a run of games and he improved, I'm saying he was always going to improve, he was rated as one of the best young keepers in the world and they'd paid a fortune for him. When you pay the sort of money we did for Joel, that improvement is much less likely. It's a bit like saying "Lukaku didn't set the world alight when he first went to Chelsea, so I don't see why Vellios couldn't become a 20 goal a season striker."

You also appear to believe that ToffeeWebbers pick the team. You say Robles never gets the chance, but that's not down to us is it? It's down to the manager, who obviously doesn't think he's better than Tim Howard. I agree that Howard is no world beater, and the fact that Robles doesn't even appear to be considered a viable alternative by his own manager adds further credence to the belief that he really isn't that good.

Anyone who says 'he can't be any worse' and means it always has me worried. How, exactly, do you come to that conclusion? You've even contradicted your own point by saying that Hibbert was indeed worse than Stones at right back, despite some people thinking it wasn't possible.

I happen to think Howard is a good goalie but, after Sunday’s nightmare, instead of leaving him out Martinez made him skipper for the night instead of giving Robles a go.

Coleman got his chance and improved, Joel hasn’t. How do we know that he isn’t another bargain? I’m not saying that Joel Is or will be better than De Gea, or even Howard for that matter, but how can he be criticised this much without anybody seeing him play regularly. He didn’t exactly make blunder after blunder in the FA Cup run did he?

The comment about Hibbert was meaning everybody knows he is shit, yet there was still calls for him to be selected. Everyone thinks Joel is shit but I would rather we not bother trying to give him the chance he needs. He could improve... we just don’t know to what extent until he is given the chance. Howard isn’t going to improve and has many faults but you would rather he always played.

And the "conclusion" to how he couldn’t do no worse is simple: Howard has single-handedly lost us games this season so the worst Joel could do is the same. He deserves his chance like anybody else. Martinez clearly does rate Joel or he wouldn’t have signed him for 2 clubs, he clearly just thinks Howard needs to play to get through a difficult time, while I and others think he needs dropping and taken out the firing line to sharpen him up.

If Lukaku misses 20 tap-ins, how many people would be calling for Kone to be given a chance – even though every man and his dog has slagged him off, saying he is shite? Yet they won’t give Joel a chance even thought Howard doesn’t deserve to play right now!

Atsu – too slow;

Hibbert – too slow but tries hard (been great);

McGeady – overrated, too many mistakes;

Distin – old age has caught up (happens to us all).

Howard to play only because Robles has never looked a safe pair of hands (punches the ball etc). Osman? Sub, yes; full game, no.

Here endeth the votes of the Swansea jury! And we are all becoming RM doubters... Bit by bit.

This isn't a manager cut from the same cloth as Ferguson or Clough; times have changed.

Admittedly I fear for his style of play, and always did when he joined us, but positive thinking and a conviction in your way of doing things is the way forward. He won't change. Get used to it.

Blood the youngsters please! I can't believe that they can make anymore mistakes than the incumbents of the back line.

As far as expecting RM to be more truthful about bad performances to stop insulting your intelligence, what good would it do to repeat what everybody already knows?

Or secure the fourth berth in the Champions League qualifying.

Your opinion about relegation is yours. I don’t share it.

I will be on the first tee in deepest rural Oxfordshire at 12.15 p.m and ignoring it completely. Like many on here, I can't bear to watch (the fact it's on that miserable excuse for a channel BT Sport makes it even worse), amidst the inevitable flurry of texts from RS mates.

I wish I could generate the slightest bit of optimism that we'll go there and win tomorrow, but I just can't see it. A point would be wonderful.

Now maybe they're not instructed to do this, but I feel our central mid-fielders are constantly pulled out of position and teams are exploiting this. Now my fear is that tomorrow them lot have a big bugger (Mad Mario) who's quite good in the air and should he get the constant supply of crosses we seem to be conceding, the Mad sod will score one...