Keane ignites the 'Club v Country' debate

Until then, shut the fuck up!!

The only thing we have in common Roy is that we're all bored with how long it takes to get out of our treatment rooms after an injury!

Roy – do one, you muppet.

If that's not putting pressure on players, I don't know what is!

You can't go round intimidating managers the way you used to do players and referees, Roy.

Give it a rest and have some respect for a club that provides 4 players for the ROI.

And yes, Roberto did not make the Spain side as a player... and Wenger did not play for France... Ferguson did not play for Scotland, Kendall did not play for England, Mourinho managed one cap for Portugal... what was Keano's point again?

Be careful. Roy didn't stand no messing from the lad in the hotel last week. He was 60 plus years of age and about 5 foot tall by the way.

Silly man.

Biggest attention seeker in football.

Pipe down, Princess!

To part use a quote from Keane; You can stick International football up your bollocks.

I'm getting tired of seeing and hearing this "I play the hard man, I never smile, nothing bothers me... blah blah blah". To be honest, he's just coming across now like some moody teenager who can't get what they want. He feels the need to live up to this image with that scruffy fucking beard and the miserable gob on him all the time.

Fact is he was a great player but as a manager and coach he's been a disaster, whether it be at Sunderland, Ipswich or Villa. Players don't respect him because people don't like a manager who's a a bully and has too much to say.

Alex Ferguson got away with it because he got results as a manager... Keane has NOT!!

So Roy, just stick to your own team and next time you're having a mood swing, you miserable fucker, just remember the money you're paid in football and the fact that as a manager/coach, you're living off what you did as a player mate.

Great player... Shit man manager... end of story.

Yeah, he's the right person to talk about "how big it is for us and how big the games are for us" when it comes to international football.

To be honest, I'd be bloody annoyed if Everton medical staff were not checking on our players when on International duty. These players represent a huge financial and emotional investment for the club and the supporters and they can't be just handed over to some other group of medical staff to do what they want with.

In my view, Keane is just one angry prick and needed someone to be angry about because yet another team he is involved with is failing.

Ignore him, Roberto.

Personally, and this is just my opinion, I've always believed in country before club. That's just the way I am. I believe players should consider it an honour to play for their country, and should do everything they can to do so. But, if a player isn't fit, then a player isn't fit. McCarthy clearly wasn't fit for the game against Scotland, and Ireland had their own medical team assess him. They kept assessing him all week and he couldn't play a full part in training. So they sent him home.

I can only assume Keane is trying to deflect attention away from the nature of Ireland's defeat against Scotland. It was, truly, one of the worst displays of "football" that I have ever seen. If Von Trapp had served that up, the media would have gone to town on him. Because it was O'Neill (or O'Jesus as I'm starting to think people back here see him), it was glossed over and Scotland have been praised for a "great" performance. Keane might also be trying to deflect attention from his latest dust-up in a hotel bar.

People outside Ireland probably won't remember, but Roy the Boy had quite the reputation back here for missing friendlies. He was once very loudly, and very roundly, booed at Landsdowne Road because of his attitude to friendlies (and playing for Ireland in general). I guess these days he's blaming Lord Ferg for all that.

I'll always admire Keane as a player (and dear god I wish we had someone like him now), but as a person he's either (a) a complete tosser or (b) seriously mentally unstable. Or a combination of the two.

As far as international level is concerned, there's no need to feign injury, just tell the manager he's crap and walk out, even if the manager then takes over a team you managed and turns them from relegation fodder and into promotion challengers with a fraction of the money you were given.

In other words, shut the fuck up (address provided if you want to come and end my career).

Is it because Moyes failed at Manchester United? Are they worried that Roberto might do a proper job of trying to return Everton into the big-time? Or is it because we are not as financially powerful as those other rich clubs in the division and therefore an easy target?

Whatever the reason, it is about time the club stood up for itself and let these detractors know that Everton FC – just like all the other clubs in the Premier League – have a duty of care towards their players and that will not be compromised by big-mouth ex-players and journalists with an axe to grind.

Ferguson has taught Keane really well and the man comes across as always angry in the same way. When he played, he badgered referees along with his Man Utd cohorts and this went unpunished in those days... unlike Sunderland against us just recently.

But then again, what more do you expect from this intimidating bully, who spends more time slagging people off in his press conferences or in his ghost-written books than he does working with the players?

As a manager, he was a complete failure and constantly fell out with his players at Sunderland. Actually, it would have been interesting to see how Keane the manager would have managed Keane the player. I'm sure he would have done anything in his power to stop his players going off to international duty.

He has a number of grudges to bear and constantly attacks anybody with a pulse these days. He then points out that Martinez doesn't understand these big games as he didn't get any caps for his country. Well Roy, that is correct, but neither did Arsene Wenger or Jose Mourinho. Look at how successful they've been.

The amount of caps you win doesn't bear any reflection on your managerial ability, as Keane himself can testify. He was sacked after barely a year at Ipswich, leaving them in the relegation zone, and as for Sunderland, we can point to one game in particular. Yes. 7-1 eh Roy?

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realise the kind of character Keane is. He walked out on his country at the World Cup, intentionally ended a player's career purely out of a non-existent revenge, fell out with his players as a manager, and essentially talked his way out of his Man United contract by criticising his own teammates, manager and fans.

So when he talks about character and loyalty when he does his daily rant on SAF, maybe he should take a hard look at himself first.

Idiotic and ignorant comment.

Still funny though, Liam.

I’m not sticking up for Helen – it was a silly remark – but if she’d made it in the bar over a couple of drinks, you’d probably have laughed it off. Written down, it looks bad. I’m sure she meant no harm – although as an Irishman you’re probably sick and tired of "harmless jokes" against the Irish, and I can see where you’re coming from on that.

As for Keane, goodness me, what a bullying fool that man is.

I appreciate that a number of TWers are not bothered by England. I am however, and it made my blood boil when Raheem Sterling, as far as I'm concerned quite clearly under duress from somebody at the Shite HQ, cried off starting an England qualifier in October.

For better or worse, Sterling is currently one of England's more important players and was needed him in the side that day given how rubbish the national team generally is. I cannot for one second believe that Sterling, with the youthful exuberance and boundless energy of a 19-year-old and at the time only having played a handful of games this season, would have voluntarily excluded himself from an England match. I am therefore certain that undue influence was exerted over him by somebody at LFC.

I am always worried when our players go off on international duty. I accept it has rebounded on us badly on a few occasions, Gibson being a prime example. I would hate to think though that anyone at Everton was in any way attempting to stop a player playing for his country in a tournament qualifier (friendlies are another matter) if fit – after all, it should be the greatest honour a player can receive. The fact the game is so skewed now that some don't perceive it that way is a great shame.

The daft bell end is moaning... after their own medical experts had examined him and confirmed he wasn't fit to play.

As I said before (and I apologise for my swearing) the man is a fucking nugget.

She was obviously joking – I thought it was funny.

Anyway, Keane can just shut the fuck up. Villa and Ireland are both shit and he’s well involved in both debacles.

Either you are with Keane 100% (and everything is only ever about Roy) or you are against him.

Anyway. It's only a matter of time before we lose a game and Keane turns the verbals on O'Neill's selections or tactics and shortly thereafter by mutual consent, Keane's mouth will be sent to the back page of the Sun where it belongs.

No, I haven't forgotten Saipan... is it obvious?

Can't hack it as a proper manager so now is hiding behind Lambert and O'Neill... nugget.

The world is not black and white, it's multicoloured, what you may feel is absurd could well be seen as correct by others.

Hey, thinking about it... it's a bit like ToffeeWeb comments – sorry, Roy!

If anyone on here doesn't believe that club managers will try to pull players out at the slightest twinge then they're naïve. The same applies if you think national teams won't happily take a short term punt on fitness.

Keane isn't anti-Everton in doing this. Bobby isn't anti-Irish by trying to pull them out. It's just competing priorities playing out in the media.

Up to the players to decide on where their priorities lie. If it was me, it would be club over country but I'll respect anyone who feels strongly enough about their national team to put themselves and their career on the line for them, as Timmy used to do.

If Dr Melfi was appalled by Tony Sopranos brain-droppings, she'd be sitting open-mouthed listening to Keane's narcissistic, 'I'm the victim' bollocks.

Tony (33) - "Anyone who drinks Guinness can play for the republic" Idiotic and ignorant comment - Still funny though, Liam."

Well humour is... subjective – personally I didn't find it funny when I first heard it (which was sometime between the Euros 1988 and World Cup 1990).

Possibly the reason I couldn't see humour is that for me, the 'joke' only works if the team you are rooting for, aren't guilty of exactly the same thing.

Well let's see – John Barnes wasn't born in England... Neither was Terry Butcher. Or Owen Hargreaves, Tony Dorigo, Matt Le Tissier, Cyrille Regis, Luther Blisset, John Salako, Raheem Stirling, Graeme Le Saux, Wilfred Zaha...

[And don't get me started on 'English' cricket teams over the years.]

Seriously though, why should we care what the Irish Number 2 thinks? Forget the player he was, now he's insignificant and desperate to to hang on to his public persona.

In terms of stakeholders that Roberto has to maintain a working relationship with, Keane doesn't even get on his C-list. The man has zero influence on anything any more and it clearly rankles with him.

Of course you do. I spent 20 years away from Ireland with my career but never felt anything other than Irish and, although my kids were both born in Ireland, if they If they had been born in the UK or Europe, they would still be Irish.

It's a nonsense that Ireland is the only country that takes advantage of this law; Scotland is just as bad and England should look at it's Cricket or Rugby teams.

Yea Roy, it doesnt come much bigger than the World Cup and we all know a certain lad from Cork who threw his toys out of the pram a few years back so he could go home and walk the dog.

Glad to hear Roberto is doing his job and looking after Everton's interests...

One thing is playing for your country; another is being careless with your physical well being.

Generally, I like Keane but he's being a tosser about this.

As much as RM is looking after Everton's interests, so too is Keane looking after Ireland's. These players, like all of our other internationals, signed contracts with Everton; Everton should therefore ensure their investments are properly insured, as should the respective football associations.

There has to be a way to balance the needs of club vs country, but with the influence money has on footballing matters these days, the money will almost always win out.

Lastly I would like to have it pointed out that the Irish medical staff supported the Everton standpoint this time round. I would then ask him to leave and tell him he isn't welcome back at Goodison in ANY capacity and he should shove his opinion up his craic.

Bill Kenwright talking on Sky about Keane saying 'stupid things'. (Not much there really)

And a transcript from the press conference that perhaps adds some context in terms of Keane's er... strained relationship with the journalists.

It has recently been highlighted that Ferguson would agree bargains with national team managers - you can't have him this time but you can have him next. That the outfit paying the wages is calling the tune is fairly obvious isn't it? And whilst the wage-paying club may choose to risk a half-fit player, they are less likely to want to have one of their stars risked for an international match. And isn't that what we the club's fans would prefer?

The only way to solve Club v Country is for international FAs to buy players from clubs and pay them their salaries, then loan them back to their clubs. Until this happens, international FAs should be grateful to able to borrow players from club sides.

Smacks everyone around until he gets fronted.
Remember Joe Parky playing against him?

(Your post has only just popped up; hence the delay)

Keane's interview shows all you need to know about him. Bully and I applaud the journo hack for keep going at him. the question was barbed but it was a genuine one, one Keane just didn't want to answer so started the hard man routine again.

First time in a long time I have smiled and liked what Kenwright has said.

The top sides – Spain, Germany, Italy, Belgium etc should all go straight through to the finals while the minnows – San Marino, Liechenstien, N Ireland, England etc go in a mini league: top 4 go through.

Who wants to watch the likes of Holland putting 6 past some school teachers and bakers like we witnessed last night? Do one, Keane, you bellend.

The media tends to twist anything an England manager says to get the readers to respond.

When I first got into football as a nipper, it was through Everton. I pretended I was Graeme Sharp in the playground. England never entered my mind and, to this day, I couldn't give a fig about international football; it means absolutely nothing to me, I only follow Everton. I do like watching the World Cup a little bit though... that's about it.

I mean, up until a few years ago, the England team contained Gerrard, Carragher & Owen (to name a few) in the same team! I despised these players & would never cheer them on & just because they wear an England shirt. I'm meant to get behind them? It may sound small minded & tribal of me, but I am only interested in Everton – international football has never grabbed me.

Club vs country? Roy Keane has only ever been loyal to one thing: Roy Keane, first last and always. We should send Duncan Ferguson to the meeting he wants to have. Keane doesn't have the balls to turn up.

In other news, Ledson scored a cracker against Poland for England in the under-18s.

He has a point about Seamus and his injury recently; there was very little official news given out by the club about it, most on here thought it was just a bang on the head at first and knew nothing about the other injury.

The whole Club v Country thing is tough to manage. If Jags got injured in a nothing game tomorrow, we would be in shit street as a club.

Like I said, I think Keane has a point about club managers having meetings with country managers, but he's worded it very badly. (Hence why he get help from Roddy when writing his books!)

I don't see the relevance of Keane's managerial record or his walking out on Ireland. He wants good Everton players to be available and is gutted when they are not.

The irony is that for decades Man Utd have withdrawn players regularly from international duty, only for them to play a few days later for their club.

Keane is a bit thick too, doesn't help.

I have contempt for this man and his former club.

COYB!

All this from the shithouse who walked out on his country on the dawn of a World Cup!

There is plenty that can be written about that gobshite but it only feeds his ego. Fuck him and ignore him. Who the fuck does he think he is? Grade A gobshite.

Keane is an evil, pig ignorant twat who personifies everything I loathed about Ferguson's Man Utd. I'll be unusual on here in hating them far more than the RS.

He was a undeniably a very effective player, but he has also proved that this status is just as likely lead to you being an absolutely crap manager.

As for the catty comment about RM never having played for his national team, so doesn't understand this level, and that RM is 'thinking that (Everton) have European games', Keane conveniently omits the fact that his management 'talent' has never taken any of his sides close to the exalted levels of European competition.

So what the fuck would he know about that?

It's like introducing technology into football – the more technology, the less we have to talk about – the less players, managers, pundits speak, the less we have to talk about.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Everton put a certain amount of pressure on players if they're not 100% fit and I don't see what's so wrong with Keane saying that either. You think he just makes things up for the hell of it? No. I think he's just a lot braver and dares tell a bit more about what really goes on behind the scenes within football.

If it was someone else saying it, people would be less inclined to say a lot of the things on this thread.

Of course clubs protect their players.

My thread about Keane was more to do with the disrespect shown by him to our manager and fellow professional, and whether RM has played for his country or not (and let's be fair to play for Spain would be a greater achievement than to play for most countries that have far fewer world class players to choose from).

It must be as frustrating for Mr Keane not to have his top players available for important fixtures as it is for every other manager and, by the way, for the supporters who ultimately pay their wages.

He's frustrated. His two best players, coming from the same club, are hurt and have been on and off when called for International duty.

He's frustrated and he has it wrong. James and Seamus have been hurt. It's as simple as that; there's nothing wrong with Everton wanting to protect their injured players.

He's outspoken and in a world where everyone reads from the same old boring script and are ever-mindful of how they phrase this sentence, use that word, deliver their message...

From Keane it goes directly from brain to mouth. I for one don't mind that a bit and in fact find it refreshing. So what if he steps in it occasionally.

Keane was simply voicing an opinion widely held,including by,among others,O'Neill, who stated that McCarthy would play "if he wants to and if he is fit".

Keane is a hypocrite and if you want to go along with him then so be it!

Top shout Tony Marsh (#64). IÂ’m all for a preliminary group stage where the minnows can piss about and send the eventual least minnow like minnows to a group stage proper. All top cup competitions seed in stronger teams later at club level. International football should do the same.

Clearly Keane did not watch the Sunderland game where McCarthy pulled up toward the end of the game and had to play on with a bandaged hamstring because all the subs had been used.

Not sure what Seamus's injury was but he's not exactly had a great run of games for Everton of late with lots of niggling injuries.

Keane's comment about Roberto not understanding international football having not represented his country is of no relevance at all, just a petulant dig. If anything, I get the impression Keane is trying to suck up to the Irish public with the 'these international games mean so much' comment as a way of making up for his disgraceful behaviour walking out on his country, team mates and Irish fans before the 2002 World Cup.

If Keane wishes a meeting to be held then Everton should agree and send Big Dunc as our representative to discuss player availability and to knock fuck out of the gasbag if he pipes up with anymore shite!