Martinez admits concerns over results but not performances

I know heÂ’s all for looking on the bright side of things and probably using this as reverse psychology to try and get the players to believe they’re doing okay to keep up spirits in the hope we can turn things round but thatÂ’s going to be hard when the players are coming out and saying the opposite to what the manager is.

IÂ’ll admit, IÂ’ve wrote off our Premier League campaign already, we canÂ’t seem to string a few results together to keep us in touch with the chasing pack for Europe and games are passing by thick and fast... but IÂ’m still fully behind Martinez and what heÂ’s trying to do at the club; with the right recruitment in the summer, hopefully weÂ’ll kick on once more and start to show the signs of the side we were last season but on a more consistent basis.

It is his own strategy to play and pass from the back and then pass some more, but the players look lost and vulnerable at times trying to adopt such simple play.

Even if you were to anylise the QPR game I thought we were lucky to win that game. All three goals were deflected with two possible OGÂ’s!

I watched the Stoke game last night with interest and was surprised how shite they were against what looked like a fairly flat (but organised) Chelsea team. You just know that the likes of Crouch and Bojan will run riot on Friday and we will be left asking ourselves what went wrong again.

We are getting strangled by the system, but I do believe we will do well if you loosen the reigns and let us play free. When we score a third, go for a fourth, that way your team will be clapped off instead of being booed off and the confidence will return... otherwise?

1. We need to attack more quickly, not allow the opposition to get back behind the ball and begin closing us down and forcing us back. This includes early balls, on the floor, ahead of Lukaku.

2. We need to work on set pieces. The ball needs to be delivered into the box from wide positions at a headable height on a regular basis. This also includes from open play.

3. We need to make substitutions that positively affect the game. This is the case whether weÂ’re winning, drawing or losing.

Martinez is getting these three things spectacularly wrong at the moment, and if he doesnÂ’t change them, I cannot back him.

Performance wise, I canÂ’t say itÂ’s been much better, Europe apart where weÂ’ve played with a bit more confidence. I presume he doesnÂ’t mean a word of it and there is another side to this being played out behind the scenes. If he really does think the performances are fine, then his head is well and truly stuck in the sand.

Personally, I canÂ’t get over the contrast with last year. The manager seems to be falling apart and over nothing more than a few iffy results: I canÂ’t understand it. Last season he changed tactics game by game, this season he seems stuck in this narrow 4-3-3. The only real difference is the lack of Deulofeu, and he was injured for a fair bit.

Hopefully RM will come out fighting next game and change things round a bit, because at the minute it looks like he is on his way out the door.

#inholestopdigging

Obviously found the keys to the Bunker under Finch Farm Moyes used to retreat into when it all turned to shit

* sits in corner with fingers in ears, saying, phenomenal, phenomenal,. phenomenal, phenomenal.

Most of us donÂ’t share his faith in recent signings apart from Besic.In fairness injuries have interfered with his choice. I think last season he had Irvine to advise him and now heÂ’s trying to do it all and he is making too many mistakes.

That display against Southampton is amongst the worst I have ever seen us play....and I watched the Smith/Walker years.

Absolutely no effort by the players.

ItÂ’s also not about the performances, itÂ’s about the line up.

He is tinkering all the time, changing the line up. The warning sign were clearly there when he tried to be clever against Palace. Unfortunately he didnÂ’t learn from it.

Shoehorning Naismith, EtoÂ’o, Lukaku and Barkley into the starting line up has been proven to not work, yet every chance he gets he does it.

Every poster who saw that line up on Saturday knew straight away what was going to happen, yet Bobby doesnÂ’t.

He canÂ’t not see that, so why does he do it? Arrogance?

The same arrogance that made Wigan stick with his "philosophy" and sent them down?

We are not Wigan Bobby, we can mix it up with the best of them, so allow them too.

As much as we were getting bored of Moyes, you could guarantee that if we had a poor couple of games he would dig in an grind out a result. I canÂ’t see Bobby doing that unless he realises pass, pass, pass is not the only way.

I could care less about his formations but put players in their right isotopes who want to spill blood if necessary for this club. ThatÂ’s what we were brought up on not this aldi / lidl version of Barcelona. Pie in the sky shite Roberto now get your head put of your arse.

The pieces are pretty much all in place, add a better goalkeeper and pace on the opposite side to Miralles to balance things up and we have a better team than most of the sides above us.

If this is what he believes then we are in for an abysmal second half of the season and can only hope that none of the teams below us go on a run !

Martinez has definitely lost the plot

The tactics and players positions deployed against a depleted Southampton team was appalling and the glaring refusal to change the system was amateurish. One of the many worrying aspects for me is the lack of passion from too many players, mainly the ones who spent many years under Moyes.

Dread the Stoke game!

IÂ’d like to think IÂ’m wrong, because last season gave so much hope, but unless Martinez can get the team to attack with purpose, play players in form, in their right positions, try putting free kicks into the opposition box instead of across the park... in other words keep it simple, then IÂ’m afraid heÂ’s going to prove too smart for his own good.
We arenÂ’t mugs. We know when we are watching, and reading, shite.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/arsenal/11308606/Revealed-The-truth-behind-Arsenals-terrible-injury-record-and-how-your-club-shapes-up.html

DidnÂ’t one of our lads recently say this was what happens at Finch Farm? A factor in our high level (as per those stats) of soft-tissue injuries??

Just because he turned into a twat at Man U, doesnÂ’t mean all of his training ideas were shite.

We were certainly fitter under him and went the full ninety. Most of these overpaid pricks looked goosed after 70 minutes.

Agreed.

We have only performed well, and I mean genuinely well, in the the 60 minutes against Arsenal.

We have NOT at any other stage this season looked that much better than any of our opponents, we have played struggling sides but itÂ’s been hard to tell at times who has been the worst between us and them.

We have not kept clean sheets.
We have lost too many games, and lost too many points from being in the lead..

Martinez has continually messed the team sheet around, fair enough we have had horrible luck with injuries but that still doesnÂ’t answer the team selection on Saturday and worse still, the horrible lack of commitment to the Everton shirt..

IÂ’m saying this now.

Its way too early to even think about sacking Martinez.
He should be given at least until the middle of next season and allowed two more transfer windows to try and rectify the gaping problems.

But the simple plain fact is WE MUST IMPROVE.

We must start playing games with more commitment, passion and we must start moving the ball about at a far greater pace and purpose.

We have played the vast majority of our games this season in a pre-season friendly mode.

For me there is only three things left that we can achieve now this season.
We need to win enough matches ASAP to avoid any potential relegation scrapes.

We must beat West Ham in the FA Cup and do our best to stay in it as long as possible.

We must go all out to try and reach at the very least the last four of the Europa League, ok it may be pie in the sky but just maybe our slow build up play suits European football more.

I’m seriously considering not bothering this time; I cannot face wasting all that money.

If Martinez is gone by the end of January, then I would still have time to get money together. I feel season ticket sales will be well down for next season unless this clown is sacked.

Over the years whenever we have had a poor first half of the season and the team has looked like itÂ’s needed a major boost of new impetus and fresh ideaÂ’s, January has worked well for us.

2011/12 being one of the key examples.
The arrival of Gibson, Jelavic and Pienaar woke the side up and the that moment the three of them were just the tonic.

LetÂ’s hope Roberto has something up his sleeve next month.

I really think the players may be tuning out Roberto. The lack of effort in the Southhampton game was down right disgusting and I really think the players are starting to question the setup and tactics. Heck, if the players arenÂ’t buying in you get a performance like we saw over the weekend.

I watched the Stoke/Chelsea game yesterday and Stoke came out all fired up. Conceding early didnÂ’t keep Stoke from being aggressive and trying hard to get something out of the game. When we go down 1-0 we seem to be resigned to getting nothing and play with zero urgency.

If Roberto continues to play slow out of the back, clog the middle of the field with players playing out of position, and value possession for the sake of possession weÂ’ll soon be in 13-14th place in the table.

ItÂ’s to soon to think of getting into a true relegation battle. There are 6 teams averaging a point per game or less and some of those teams hardly score enough goals to get out of the drop zone.

19th,12th,7th,19th,15th,11th,14th,9th,4th,12th,3rd,16th,8th,6th,8th,15th,14th, 11th, 4th, 5th, - we are currently 11th.

So, whatÂ’s new?

Now is MartinezÂ’s time. His team. His culture. Poor training, poor prioritisation and poor transfer dealing. All undermined what was once the leagueÂ’s best defence.

There are those who worship Martinez, seeking to stifle criticism while spinning their jaundiced anti-Moyes narrative. ItÂ’s time such people accepted that the frailty of MartinezÂ’s is defence and that he did not learn his lesson after the Wigan relegation.

IÂ’d give him till season end. Then he has to go. It took him three years to screw Wigan up. We cannot be Wigan Mk 2...and the Martinez apologists need to get with the programme on that.

Another simple matter is find a new captain. Jags is a good team player but does not have leadership quality. Leaders can be seen directing play, they cajole, congratulate and when required criticize slackers. They have a commanding presence that cannot be taught and Jags struggles with his own game.

Martinez should put a stop to our backline overdoing stupid cross field and backward passing. The crowd has started showing displeasure and it could turn out to be an embarrassment at the first sign of it against Stoke.

Did it really have to come down to that happening. Did Roberto expect supporters to accept such mid numbing foolishness. Did he incorporate it into tactics. Does he still expect his players to suffer abuse from our own fans.

The only thing new is the raised expectations after the performances of last season.

I have heard rumours this morning that there is an anti-Martinez March planned for Friday. Please, someone, tell me this isnÂ’t true.

Some seem to think the only way is down from here, but I canÂ’t see how we could get any worse?

If you think Martinez is happy with our football, then I suggest you think again. HeÂ’s making mistakes, every time he shuffles the pack it only seems to get worse. Any idiot can see itÂ’s not working for Everton, to believe the manager is walking around thinking everything is rosy is even more senseless. He has to address almost every facet of our play, including finding a new Â’keeper.

If he wants to remain loyal to the likes of Tim Howard, then itÂ’s Martinez who will lose his job. IÂ’ve no sympathy if he is not ruthless enough.

WhatÂ’s new Kevin, is the new depths of nothingness most of this bunch of players have sunk to. Not even in the Walker/Smith days. Give me strength! Do any of you really think we donÂ’t desperately need a Graham Stuart. Or a Joe Parkinson. Or a Gravesen. Or a Cahill. Or a number of other players over the last twenty years who knew and gave a bollocks about what it meant to don that royal blue shirt.

I said we should hire Puils. Against the grain as I also said, but critical to our survival. Someone else reasoned with tihs along the lines of Â’what about two years afterwards if we doÂ’. There wonÂ’t be a two years to worry about if we donÂ’t! We will be in oblivion, otherwise known as the Championship, not the Premier League. Then that really will be the end of Everton Football Club.

If anyone doubts where we are heading, or whether anyone has the belief that Martinez has the will, desire or ability to change things, just read the article again.

By the way, if you think a baseball cap wearing Tony Pulis is the answer to our woes, and you want a long throw-in as your main attacking threat, thatÂ’s your choice. He couldnÂ’t be further away from my idea of an Everton manager though. We may as well go the whole hog and get Warnock off Palace.

By the way, if you think a baseball cap wearing Tony Pulis is the answer to our woes, and you want a long throw-in as your main attacking threat, thatÂ’s your choice. He couldnÂ’t be further away from my idea of an Everton manager though. We may as well go the whole hog and get Warnock off Palace.

Â’ ItÂ’s about adaptability and changing things when certain tactic/regimes arenÂ’t working.Â’

CouldnÂ’t agree more. As Mike Tyson said, " EveryoneÂ’s got a plan, and then they get punched on the mouth."

Other managers have sussed us out. Roberto has to find a way to get our good players on the ball more and less of the mind-numbing Jagielka - Distin - Howard triangle.

"But I canÂ’t see how we can get any worse?"

There lies the problem, we donÂ’t have to get any worse, we just have to stay the same and the fat lady will be gargling with 5 games to go.

We will see in the next 2-3 months if he has the nous to sort it out. It looks at the moment like he is losing the dressing room.

"ItÂ’s shit". She said, "absolute crap".

"More than likely", I replied, "But letÂ’s hear it anyway".

.... coat.

Last yearÂ’s wave of enthusiasm shielded BK and the board. That enthusiasm has led to expectancy that he was finally going to bring Everton back where we belong and a team that performed and fought in a way that made us proud.

If Bobby does not shut up and step up soon so that his actions match his words then maybe the BK shield will vapourise. If is he to become a great manager you get the feeling that now is the time to step up and put a marker down.

I hope he can and does but I have a nagging doubt that he does not have greatness in him after all.
Whats it to be Bobby?

Stubborn to a fault is obvious but this Club is far bigger than you Bobby so fucking adapt or gittttt out!

He knows full well that the booÂ’s that have been ringing out are due to the piss poor amount of effort being put in, the mind boggling tactics and his inability to have any impact on a game once it is has started by being able to change formations or make effective substitutions. But it is quite insulting that he still keeps up the positive spin. He is doing himself no favours at all with our fanbase who are not going to lap up his hyperbole.

We have had some injuries, but no more than anybody else. But whats different today, is that in previous seasons when we had players out and a small squad, it seemed to galvanise the team. And even if the football was not the best to watch, I had the impression that it was a team that would run through brick walls for each other, and epitomised what Everton was all about. Now it looks like a team of individuals putting most of their effort into just trying to play a complicated and mechanical football system, instead of feeling relaxed and playing with their hearts and instincts.

I sincerely hope that Martinez finds the compromise between the system he wants us to play, and the ability of the players to execute that system. We simply cannot go out playing the exact same formations and tactics week in week out and expect results to improve. Its a good opportunity for Martinez to show some ruthless side to his character, and give this bunch of under performing millionaires a good reality check.

When IÂ’ve watched them on Sky they have been with few exceptions exactly the same.ItÂ’s good to see the glass half-full, but to not even acknowledge that someoneÂ’s taken a big mouthful is blind obstinacy.

With the squad he has and the state of the league in general right now we should be good outside bets for the top 4 at the very least. It is not Kenwright that is sending a talented group of players out there every week to play slow, boring, pedestrian football that can be picked off by any team with a bit of spirit about them.

Martinez out

Maybe it might have helped at Southampton if he’d have left Barkley and Besic tocarry on where they left off against QPR because they look like they could forge a good partnership. But no – as soon as Barry was available, he waltzed back into the side to the detriment of the above partnership.

I mentioned that, if Barry had been performing anywhere near like he was this time last season, IÂ’d have had no issue with that. But the reality is, he looks a yard slow, is constantly caught in possession, and actually looks and plays at least 10 years older than he is at the moment... but Martinez is so stubborn, thereÂ’s not a prayer he s getting benched any time soon. No, itÂ’ll be Besic or Barkley.

Also, IÂ’d love to know where he sees EtoÂ’oÂ’s best position because it sure as hell isnÂ’t where heÂ’s playing now! Every fan knows his game has been built on being a penalty-box type poacher and his movement is so clever heÂ’s constantly got defenders on the hop. But no, the Spaniard cant seem to recognise this.

I canÂ’t wait for the line up against the bully boys of Stoke I just hope McCarthyÂ’s back to give us some much needed steel because weÂ’re going to need it. If weÂ’re struggling after an hour, the natives are going to get very restless. This is one winter IÂ’m really not looking forward to...

We just need someone who can play players in their best positions, show flexibility when the plan is not working and give them a system that is organised and solid whilst also allowing them to express themselves. Last season it seemed Roberto was very close to being that man. This season he could not seem further away.

He will be here for another 12 months at least I wager and I wholeheartedly hope he can turn it around but heÂ’s going to have to do change alot to get things right again as we have looked nowhere near the level required.

If the average supporter can see that why canÂ’t a 3 million pound a year manager see that.

He is destroying the confidence and team spirit that Moyes built at the club and this head in the sand shit needs to stop now.

He needs to get the players together and have a real heart to heart discussion with them.

When an individual is not performing then you can make a change but when the whole team is not performing you have to question the manager.

When the whole team continues to under perform you have to CHANGE the manager.

He needs to get us playing with more pace both in our passing and also pressing of teams higher up the pitch. At the moment teams are finding it easy to get at our back four. IÂ’m afraid that Barry has to go as his legs are not quick enough, pair McCarthy and besic as the base of a midfield but encourage them to look forward for passes not sideways or back.

Please, please try different systems and possibly Naismith up front with Lukaku as a foil with with possibly a diamond in midfield with Mirallas at the tip of it and the 3 of McCarthy, Besic, Barkley. This would hopefully give us more legs but we must move the ball quicker than what we have been doing and play in our opponents half.

The next few weeks are massive for Martinez and could possibly shape the next few years at the club. Get it wrong and there could be an exodus at the end of the season, yet another watershed me thinks.

I cannot figure out how our center backs have suddenly forgotten how to properly defend the 6 yard box. Or that players no longer know how to close down the opposition in dangerous areas. ItÂ’s as if many have been reprogrammed. Regardless, the mentality of both manager and squad needs to change short order. They need to come into FridayÂ’s match battle-ready and willing to grind out a result against the Potters. I donÂ’t care about the display at this stage. We need a result to stop the rot and start building some much needed confidence. Bobby needs to get his tactics aligned with this goal in mind. If he cannot see that changes are needed to stabilize the situation, then I have strong doubts that he is the right man for the job.

As others have noted, the next few weeks will be a telling indication of whether we really are in the shit. I sincerely pray we are not and this just a REALLY bad patch. A strong showing by both manager and players on Friday will at least give me hope.

Someone needs to have a word in MartinezÂ’s ear and remind him that the fans are not idiots. If we play shit then just call it as it is and stop trying to polish a turd or deflect from the main issue.

The goals may have been down to crap defending but we also got nowhere near scoring against half a Southampton reserve side!

Crap defending, whilst an issue, is not the main problem. The boos whilst winning 3-1 against QPR must surrly have raised a few eyebrows internally. The game against Southampton must have pointed a massive spotlight on there being a big problem.

Stoke next and I really donÂ’t know what to expect.

Either way, happy holidays to all you blues....I hope this site doesnÂ’t go into melt down after the next two games.

Come on Bobby, sort it out - it really is not that difficult.

First, The plusses:-

1. Playing shite but mid table, not relegation fodder.
2. Great club set up and social mantra eg; The PeopleÂ’s Club
3. Probably the best quality / cost ratio in the league
4. Low profile and media not interested in us
5. Knowledgeable and sincere fan base
6. Potential access into Champions Cup via Europa League
7. Great up-and-coming young team structure
8. No fat overseas cat owner who can pull the plug

Second, the minuses:-

1. Not good to watch at present
2. Champions League 4th position going begging
3. Still patronized or ignored by the BBC
4. Still well behind LFC in the Liverpool Echo coverage
5. Stadium still not resolved.

It could be worse. I have a feeling there is more going on behind the scenes than we realize eg:-

a) No real investment in players
b) Exodus of backroom staff
c) No investment plan in sight
d) Suspect preparation and training
e) Youth team breakthroughs being slowed down

On balance, we are still better off than many other clubs of our spending capacity, and we still have a good block of players for a good present and a great future. LetÂ’s see how it pans out over the next 4 months I think we will be very pleasantly surprised by MartinezÂ’s tactics.

Not substituting players during the Southampton game could prove to be a masterstroke.... I bet you Kone, Garbutt and Stones (and possibly Oviedo) start against Stoke then each of the underwhelming players will know he has nowhere to hide and is as responsible as the next man for the team’s performance.

As I pointed out on another thread to someone who said I am still hoping for 4th, this will need 70 or so points.

We have 21 so need 49 points out of a possible 63. So we can drop 14 points - 2 defeats and 4 draws and 15 wins! Who does he try to kid? We have as much chance of getting 4th as . . . . . . . . . Farage being PM.

I have little confidence that Roberto is going to change tactics for the upcoming 3 games. Stoke at home and quick trips to Newcastle and Hull. ItÂ’s not going to be easy.

If Everton fail to win one of the next 3 games the posts to ToffeeWeb are going to be uglier than they are now and thatÂ’s saying something!

I canÂ’t remember seeing a victory this season in which we looked comfortable - I specifically remember the wins against West Brom and Wolfburg where the score did not reflect the game.

We have scored a reasonable amount of goals but a lot of them are down to a bit of individual brilliance rather than good team play.

We are so slow in our build up that it gives the opposition plenty of time to get back and get in formation and then we donÂ’t have the ability to break them down - though I did think this might come with Naismith getting back in the team but it has proved not to be.

I donÂ’t think we will go down but I think we are going to have a lot more shit performances this year.

Last season, all sweetness and light for Bobby, now we have had as much/more booing against the manager/players in ten weeks than we have for the last ten years.

I donÂ’t advocate booing your team and itÂ’s strange hearing it in the Lower Gwladys (especially when your winning) but after seeing the shitest of shit corners/free kicks for the last season and a half, I could almost condone it.

Well I would lump this shower of shit with them now. And I would certainly lump the manager in with any of the managers that you mentioned - apart from Catterick !

You said if I thought this team was as bad as SmithÂ’s team I should go to Specsavers. Well looking at the dross this season I think theyÂ’re as bad as Smiths team so I think IÂ’ll pass on the Specsavers visit.

Some players have been poor of late including the offence. LukakuÂ’s ball comtrol is awful and Nessies lack of speed are worrying aspects of EvertonÂ’s game. Teams seem to have sussed out the big threat of Baines and Coleman which has put more pressure on the midfielders to create more which has not been happening and failed big time against the Saints.

It may be time to make some changes before the rot really setÂ’s in. Mirallas and Macca have been missed but younger hungrier players should be given a chance soon.

Coleman seems to be playing a lot more conservatively which is strange. He still has the same players in front of him so we cant' complain about lack of protection?

You think it's the player's choice to constantly play the ball back to the defense and the keeper? Funny how they never took that approach before. But suddenly the wing backs no longer cross the ball into the box, and every single player's first move when pressured by a defender is to play the ball backward. That's not the player's instinct, that's the manager's direction.

No they haven't, the formation and tactics are no longer suited to their game.

Their usual avenues are blocked with the non winger wingers getting in their way and doing fuck all with the ball.

If Bobby can do it, it will have required divine intervention and he will be truly St Martin of the Miracles !

He keeps banging on about the youth and how strong they are...well use some of them. At least they will put up a fight and not act like its the last game of the season and couldnÂ’t give a crap.

Now hang on a minute, if our performance was good and defence was bad it would have been 3-3! Simple maths really, we we have 21 games left with a possible 63 points available. So for us to even get 70 points and try to emulate last season we can only loose 4 and draw 1 from 21, thatÂ’s 16 wins needed. So based on our first half of the season I would say no chance! Sorry but I canÂ’t even see us getting 60 points this season.

"Slow build-up play".
"Players played out of position".
"Pissing about with the ball in our own half".
"Martinez too stubborn to change".
" Teams have sussed us out".
" Relegation dogfight on the horizon".

Have I missed any out?

All I have to say is: Roberto, stop talking rubbish to the press and sort this mess out pronto... starting with a win and much improved performance on Boxing Day.

I never wanted Martinez as our manager but last season I was beginning to wonder if I had misjudged the guy; sadly he has reverted back to type, and we look worse than Wigan in their relegation season. At least Wigan had a bit of fight in them.

My worry now is that Martinez hangs on to his job to the bitter end... and, by the time BK plucks up courage to do something, itÂ’s too late.

If we are relegated, itÂ’s bye bye to Coleman, Ross, Besic, Macca and any other decent player and we would have one hell of a job coming back from that.

Squeaky Bum time, I fear... Merry Xmas, fellow blues.

There is no excuses for Martinez as he has shown over the last couple of months that he has not got a clue of changing what is not working and is definitely to stubborn or lacks a tactical knowledge of what is wrong.to change it.( As saturday showed despite what we thought we do not have a strong squad as Martinez did not believe he had anyone on the bench who would make any differance to the shambles on the pitch).

Being a supporter since 1956 I have seen quite a number of managers come and go but I have never seen a manager get so much deserved cririticism from so many supporters in such a short period of his tenure at the club as Martinez.

Martinez may not read these comments on T.W. but I am sure he is aware of the feelings of the supporters--if not then he is as blind off the pitch as he is on it. Take the rose coloured glasses off move this club foreward or you will end up in the record books as one of the shortest employed managers in Everton's history.

Blame the manager, he's in charge so the buck stops there, but I've not heard a lot of criticism of the players, their the ones who have to perform on the day.
We have too many average UK players in our squad, when did any UK National side ever look like winning anything for god knows how many years, if their not given time on the ball they havn't got the skill to overcome it.
I had us down at the start of the season to be no better than 7-9th ish al a Phil W due to the Europa fixtures, were 11th now which is disappointing but not entirely dire.

Martinez has tried playing football chiefly on the ground, but too many players have been found wanting this season, the alternative is to use a Moyes/ Stoke style of play which with our transfer budget is probably the less risky method, but I thought most were fed up with that!

After the 'rooted to the ground' centre haves display at Southampton, where they were woeful, I dread to think how many crosses will be fired into our goal mouth by Stoke for their big bruisers to nod in.
Problem is if Stones not fit, who else is there?

What we need is a mega rich Arab/Russian.

I wonder what colour the sky is in his world?

It might make more sense to make Goodison a 30,000 capacity stadium - not what we would like, but judging by the reaction of the fans this season and those of other clubs such as Villa, Spurs and Newcastle in the recent past, is the penny finally dropping that being part of the league is great but being unable to truly compete is not so great.

I want I manager that inspires players to play their best.

I want a manager that shows during games that he's tactically aware of what changes would benefit the team (and make the necessary changes).

Last season, Martinez did those things. This season, in the Premier League, we are practicing a style that might work in the Europa League but is killing our performances in the Premier League.

Get real Roberto; just use the season to improve and stabilise our league form, and then we can concentrate on the FA Cup, and the Europa League.

So... if he goes... in my opinion, that will be when we’re close to the relegation and Bill starts to panic. Remember, he sacked his good mate Walter when the players stopped playing for him...

Roberto isn’t bullet proof; Bill knows what a relegation threat could do to the club’s beleagured finances. If it gets worse and Roberto loses the dressing room, he’ll be gone... too early but who do I suggest just in case... (tin hat is donned)...Mark Hughes.

Hear me out. His teams are competitive, no prima donnas, guys who can mix it, and aren’t scared to scrap when necessary. He can find bargains, his teams never get bullied, takes the fight to the Sky monied teams, good defensively, well organised, good at set pieces – whether it is attacking or defending them.

A genuine improvement on Moyes who adds attacking ideas (being a striker himself) to defensive stability and organisation. His teams try to play, can be tough and direct when necessary, apart from QPR, where he has he gone wrong given what he has at his disposal?

With our financial situation, we’re never going to be Barcelona, but look at the traits above. I think it’s a good shout. Interested in hearing your thoughts...

He inherited a good squad and has supplemented it with record spending accompanied by the maturing Barkley and Stones.

If Mourhino had this squad we would be up there in the top 4 no doubt. So therefore it must be the manager.

The blame for that rests with BK again who did not want to risk a high profile experienced manager who "might rock the boat". Instead he goes for the cheap and lazy option which IMO was lined up in February with his pal Whelan when Moyes refused to sign his contract.

Why spend time looking for a top class manager when your buddy 30 miles up the road says he's got one you can have cheap.

He has backroom staff as well as former blues at the club. Go consult them, Roberto. Nothing wrong with a second opinion.

Next 3 games are crucial. Failure to win and the pressure really does mount on him. I would not like to be in his brown shoes this Xmas...

For all Moyes's faults and subsequent indiscretions, he was always the top British manager after Ferguson and beat Hughes's "moneybags" Man City with regularity.

If as many suspect that Roberto has put all of his eggs in the EL basket and he has adjusted the fitness and training accordingly then he might be considered a genius if he were to pull it off - providing of course that the team win enough PL games to at least maintain their current position.

It would be a hell of a gamble by him if that is what he has planned all along, I don't believe that to be the case and our current woes were always a distinct possibility this season, the next month will reveal whether or not Roberto has the capability to turn things around and by the end of February we will know whether this has all been a bump in the road or yet another dead end.

Whoever manages Everton at this time needs a lot of luck and has to make the right calls more often than at most of the other top clubs because any mistakes at Goodison can have a devastating affect on the finances and ambitions, you only have to look at Villa to see how outlooks change quickly in the Premier League.

Mark Hughes would probably be the type of manager that Everton would have to settle for - but it is possible, that even he, may want too much money to come to Goodison, we can no longer pick and choose the 'best' people at Everton and that is another sad aspect of the times we live in.

Instead of giving Hibbo Barry and the like 3 year contracts we could have spent that money on a Van Gall or Ancelloti.

If we don't start thinking big as a club we will be forever the "small family club".

For me the pre season fiasco has defined our season so far. There is a complacency amongst many of the players and they appear unable to last ninety minutes. There has not been a complete performance all season. Its been a "variety show" of mishaps and the occasional moment by one or two players.

My worries about Roberto really though started after the QPR game. Barkley (too often over-hyped by RM) has his best game for a long time beside a hungry energetic Besic. Please do not tinker I think. But no, the floundering Barry of this season comes back and RM shoves a collection of no 10's up front. The team selection at Southampton was peculiar to say the least. Coupled with no subs and some strange post match comments I hope these are not the signs of a manager in denial. Moyes was slaughtered for less.

They say if you repeat the same mistakes again and again, and expect different results it is a sign of madness. I hope Roberto learns quickly because these are dangerous times and this stubborn "philosophy" took Wigan down.

We can all see what is going wrong, the Howard, Jags, Distin triangle. Barry turning into Neville part 2. The constant moving of Barkley.

But one thing Martinez did last season was play on the counter when necessary and make subs that effected the game. But the Southampton game showed a paralysis to these attributes and for me that is a worrying sign. I hope I am wrong and RM turns it round.

A Merry Christmas to all blues

I am not bothered were he puts his egge as long as he improves what in his opinion is not a concern and that is our performances. As another supporter commented don't good performances bring good results.

We have had a very good first season under Martinez and a poor first half to the second when our expectations were going through the roof.
If we had beaten Southampton would we have seen the depressing comments this week?

I am,for better or worse, in favour of sticking with what we have because
this man offers our best chance of improving on where we are, long term.

We never win away at Southampton anyway - but I wouldn't bet on us against anybody in the league at the moment, home or away.

It's worth remembering that some of our supposedly terrible defence was in danger of being poached by Arsenal, Utd and even Chelsea, if rumours are to be believed.

I'm reminded of those Newcastle and West Ham sides being relegated with squads full of talent but no club cohesion.

Totally get what you're saying just find it odd that we are playing the ball around at the back as much as last year. Maybe, as been said in other posts, the opposition have realised they just need to leave their wingers up the pitch to take out our full backs. Job done.

In regards Martinez, I love his optimism but obviously understand why people get annoyed when he is positive when we have played badly. I just prefer it to Moyes' lack of ANY emotion!

We will play liverpool in the Europa at some point, and it will be the best night in decades at Goodison.

Some comments bordering on Kopite behaviour on here recently. Yeah, it's not been great, the passy, passy bollocks has got to stop at home, but things can change quickly, and let's get behind the eleven on the pitch and see what we can do. After all, we may not be in Europe again for bloody ages !

Much as though I hear other supporters saying give him time my feeling is I have seen enough and on the basis of performances so have the players.

We have lost the strength and team spirit that Moyes engendered and now have a collection of zombies on the pitch.

As I am sure all blues feel I would love RM to turn it around but it will take a lot for him to restore my confidence in him.

Oh, Des, did you know, if we win every game between now and the end of the season, weÂ’ll be guaranteed to finish in the top 4? Oh and Des, did you also know that, if my auntie had balls, sheÂ’d be my uncle?

Yes maybe they don't agree with his tactics or being a square peg in a round hole but dammit they are blessed to be playing a game for huge money

I don't want to labour the point but the same 5 or 6 teams occupy the top 4 places each season, apart from the one year that we spoilt the party and that was when Man City were not the force they are now.
Its not a coincidence that they invariably are the ones that spend the most money each season on transfers and wages, and that's to add to the players that are already at the clubs.

By all means criticise Martinez everybody will makes mistakes, but its a hell of a hill to try and climb if you cant compete to buy the best players and to add insult to injury invariably end up selling your own.

The Prem. is really 3 Leagues in one, has been for years now, problem is we still haven't the money to compete at the very top.

I also remember when Alan Stubbs took the huff and went off to Sunderland for a season and the terrible impact that had on the team. When he came back the whole team lifted.

I remember Stubbsy's in a game at Anfield which I think we drew. They threw everything "into the box" but they just couldn't get past him - he just kept heading the ball back out of the box. I wish we had someone like that in the team now. Who commands our box?

Something is definitely different in the club this season. The "team" does not just consist of the players on the pitch - it's the whole coaching staff. I wonder if Stubbs and Irvine contributed more to the team than we realise.

I am very concerned with the situation at the moment and it's because we are so poor in our own area. The return of John Stones provides a ray of hope.

I have seen numerous reports about us being in the mix for various wingers and midfielders. I hope they are just paper talk - that is not what this situation calls for.

I hate criticising individual players but what this team needs now is two things:

A goalkeeper who will come off his line to prevent a cross reaching the head of an opposing centre forward.

A centre half who can win the ball in the air anywhere on the pitch but particularly in his own area.

Harold - can any of our youngsters head the ball?

Regarding Mark Hughes - I think there is someone better than him at the club already sitting in the wings. Bill Kenwrights plan B brought in in July of this year.

After my initial misgivings Roberto won me over last year - I am very disillusioned at the moment and like Colin Glassar would like to see him turn it around. If he is going to he will have to win against Stoke.

Hoping for a Merry Christmas for all my fellow Evertonians.

Up the Blues!!!

Our latest difficulties have confirmed just how crucial is James McCarthy to the side’s balance and force. He had a dodgy start to the season himself but had returned to superb form before his injury. He is the rhythm of the team and our main bulwark.

As a happy side effect of James’s injury, we have now all realised what a gem the manager has signed in Besic. A somewhat more incisive midfield component than Macca but just as focussed and probably harder.

Add Barkley to that mix as an attacking threat and you have, potentially but not fancifully, a truly great Everton midfield. Of course, that requires them to play together.

We need a top class centre back (unless Galloway or Browning comes through, and I have high hopes of both), Del Boy back (the rumoured 㾶m would be a snip) and a high quality striker (Bony is now beyond us probably but the scouts need to step up).

This though is the really good news I would like to share, having drunk some nice wine: we have in waiting a seriously fine midfield core. Get that right and a great deal else will follow.

Happy Christmas everyone and let us keep the one, true faith.

Yes, he is a likeable guy but he is even less pragmatic than Moyes which I didnÂ’t think was possible. Stubborn and blind to the point of stupidity.

I believe that the Stoke game is our most I.important for some time.

Prompted by a comment from a mate who commented that we had a striking problem and are not scoring as much because we're not having as many shots I did a comparison with the same point last year which at the time was 14 games.

We had around 10% less goal attempts than last season.
We had around 30% less shots on target than last season.
We had scored 2 more goals than last season.
We had conceded 50% more goals (9) than last season.

So although our attempts on target was considerably worse the end result was better and it is our defending that is letting us down.

Last season Kenwright was getting plaudits for appointing Martinez (and Moyes before him) so if he can get praised for appointing the right manager, he can also get criticised for appointing the wrong one, even if it is the same manager.

Last year, we had game-changers on the bench and so far this option hasnÂ’t been there. Too many unfit players. ItÂ’s only now that Barkley is running into some form.

If we can stay injury-free, I think we can turn it around. A run of good results will do no harm.

I don't think there is or will be anybody waiting for the nod, but this week has shown, on here at least, that the natives are getting restless.

Despite what Roberto says it WILL be about the performance, both his and the team's, but firstly his. He will be the one who picks the team, He will be the one who says do, x,y and z. Don't do a,b, and c.

You the Players will have to go out and actually GIVE A FUCK... you know, actually do the job you get paid for, earn those mega wages that we in our own humble way contribute to.

Stoke are not going to roll over full of Christmas pud and not GAF.

It won't be up to us to cheer you to the echo and encourage you to GAF, thus giving Us a reason to cheer...you have to earn that.

All down to you Lads, ask your selves DO I GIVE A FUCK...If not, do one and we will go on helping to pay the wages of somebody who does.

There have not been many reasons to be cheerful this season, give us some via the attitude and performance and we will forgive an Iffy result.

Get the basics right and the results will follow.

Whilst I'm still behind Roberto, and I fully believe that what he says in public will be quite different to what he says to his players in private, I do feel he is insulting us all slightly when he says the performances have been fine.

The performances have been far from fine. Arsenal for 78 minutes was excellent, then the players bottled it.

Chelsea at times was excellent, but not over the entire game. Are we the only team to have scored three against them this season?

Wolfsburg home was again good in patches, but we coughed up some amount of chances for them to score.

Other than that I cant actually think of any other games where we have had a good performance.

When I played, at a very low level, you knew individually and collectively how you had performed. If the Manager was telling you that you had played well, when you knew you hadn't, or played badly when you knew you had, it didn't take long for you to question the guy.

Stoke are going to get wired in, they will know that if they get the first goal the atmosphere will get very ugly, and our players are short of confidence and belief, and it will be highly unlikely we will come back to win.

Aside from all that, and I haven't read the thread, but Martinez is talking shit, we've played shit, his tactics have been shit, his management has been shit, our injuries have been shit. Everton are a bit shit.

End of.

Happy Xmas James!

We all expected last season to be the transitional one, and the unexpectedly good showing led us all to expect even better this season, but it would appear that the honeymoon period is over and the reality of scrapping for points in a highly competitive league has finally hit home.

I'm not suggesting anyone should be happy with current performances or satisfied with our league position, but to suggest a change in management when Martinez is clearly planning for the long term would be folly.

Would anyone really be happy with a Tony Pulis type who would have us scrapping for every point just to secure the status quo or an ambitious visionary who's aim is to take us beyond all that?

I'm dispirited too, but I'm willing to be patient as I'm sure that in the long run the path that Roberto is following will one day bear fruit. The alternative is a quick fix that will perpetuate the best of the rest tag we have made our own over the past decade. I thought we wanted more than that!

I'm assured that Martinez is not Mr Nice behind closed doors, but I honestly think it's time he stood up and said 'It's not good enough' from both himself and the players.

I can't get over how bad we've been this season, compared to last. It's gutting!