Knackered – Physios' warnings going unheeded?

His mismanagement of player fitness has done for us this season. It will either cost him his job, or a forced change of direction. But then who is there to force him?

IÂ’m beginning to wonder if Martinez got his physio qualification from a market stall.

I argued with many on here about our pre-season preparations, saying that professional outfits do not leave these things to chance – it looks like I was completely wrong (again!)

Not looking good, is it?

Not that I needed any convincing, the evidence of my own eyes was enough, the rest was just the Icing on the cake as it where.

Roberto Phenominal passit Martinez, this court finds you GUILTY!

CLANG

Martinez instead preferred ball work, telling Everton fansite GrandOldTeam.com that he thought that "to get the footballer fit, means you need to work with the ball; if just thinking, youÂ’re going to do a run, running action without the ball, is going to use different muscle than you do with the ball so for me itÂ’s pointless to run and run and run or to do an exercise that is not linked to football."

So when in possession, the 10 players who donÂ’t have the ball and are running arenÂ’t playing football? What about when not in possession? Are the same "ball" muscles used then? It just doesnÂ’t make any sense.

"The 18 hamstring injuries directly correlate with the time Billows [one of the medical men] has been absent from the club." - WOW! MÂ’Lud, if I may explore this further?

I still donÂ’t think it will end in relegation, only because there are at least 3 worse teams below.

IÂ’m a supporter of RM but he got this horribly wrong. The side started way back in the fitness stakes and have never truly recovered. When the stats show just before the QPR tie that Everton were second in the table on first half performances; itÂ’s clear that the players are not reaching the same levels in the second halves and overexertionÂ’s are leading to these injuries.

Now coupled with fitness problems; the players have no confidence on the football then itÂ’s a recipe for doom.

We need an ugly win from somewhere and quickly.

I Think ToffeeWebbers need to do the same and get behind the manager and the club and stop bleating.

We all have our different opinions on Martinez regarding tactics and team setups, however, one thing I think nobody can disagree with is our appalling fitness levels.

Maybe we need a clone of Moyes and Martinez?

The loss of backroom staff at GP has been a worry for lots of us supporters. If only we knew the full story.

Whatever, heÂ’s had 6 months plus to figure all these out. LetÂ’s face it, weÂ’re forensically examining a corpse not diagnosing a patient. HeÂ’s got 3 games maximum left and thatÂ’s only if performances improve.

After the 72-point haul last season it really did look like he might be "the one" but, like Mary Jane Rottencrotch, heÂ’s just breaking hearts.

The proof is on the pitch. Unfit players, injured and obviously unhappy with things as they are and wondering where the next win will come from. If I had any doubts about Martinez, then that article has just made my mind up.

Most of us can think back to testimonial matches that used to employ long retired stars as the opposition to the current squad. We wondered at their fabulous ball control and ability to pick a pass and all agreed that the likes of Glen Hoddle and Martin Dobson Â’retired too soonÂ’!

But, of course, they didnÂ’t. Because if such skills as tackling and closing down had been allowed, most of them wouldÂ’ve left the field in a trice.

Martinez is right. Players hone their ball skills by playing with the ball. But when was the beautiful game just about ball skills?

All the successful sides we have seen over the years have been blessed with supreme fitness, football nouce and, would you believe it, the ability to shoot and take an effective corner and free-kick.

So, take any of these out of your team’s skill-set to focus on just passenachio and you are immediately at the mercy of all those old-fashioned coaches who see some merit in mixing it up and who – God forbid – still like to see their players fit enough to run about a bit.

All the evidence is there, for all to see, and sitting down in London or wherever twiddling thumbs will not make the problems go away.

C'mon, Bill — it's time to take drastic measures and boot this loser of a manager out.

I thought the Garbutt remarks were enlightening but this takes the biscuit.

It is not a question for any true blue to want him to fail – we want nothing but our club to be successful and that includes RM at the helm but the fact is that it is not going to happen and the rest of this season of debacle will be watched through my fingers just knowing where we are heading.

This is not a new phenomena. Why is Gibson always injured? Why has Pienaar disappeared? Wtf is wrong with Hibbo and Ossie? It's not just this season, it's been going on for years.

Martinez did say a few weeks ago he was going to look into the delays of certain players coming back and the reasons why. Maybe he interrupted a poker game and a fag break?

Truth is we don't know and whether they left in protest or were forced out after poor performance with injury management and rehab is impossible to find out without more facts and less inference.

This has been a problem for a long time now and it might be a case that something's being done to solve this.

Maybe I'm adding those things together and getting the wrong number?

Could it be we are suffering from a hangover from the world cup...certainly our key players in the spine of the team are suffering this season with form, injuries or both (Howard, Jags, Baines, Berkley, Miralas, Lukaku)......all of them would have reported back to training after rest of team......so wouldn't have been in the hands of this great physio in pre-season anyway. Besic has been playing well recently but to be fair although he was at world cup we didn't play him until November so he had plenty of time to rest!!!
Our small squad has had three players coming back from long term and serious injury - Kone, Gibson and Oviedo (do we add Alcaraz to that list too)
Three players who just seem off the pace this year (Distin, Barry and Pienaar)
Atsu and Eto'o weren't part of our pre-season anyway.
By the way, I have named 16 of our 25 first team squad...only ones not mentioned are Scottish or Irish (and/or sh1t)!

So two teams are flying away in the league.
Man United -> no European football and not many injuries to key players
Southampton -> ditto and no world cup players either
West Ham -> ditto
Swansea -> ditto
Tottenham -> have a massive squad (and not many at World Cup) and have struck lucky with Harry Kane

Season ticket holder at Blackpool tells me Lundstrom couldn't get in the team, and Kennedy was sub for 10 of his 16 Hibs games...so lets not think their returning has anything to do with being the answer, its more to do with finding them a League One club to get some game time!!!

COYB

I never chastised our former manager like some did but I also feel guilty for not recognizing some of his positive attributes in the early dawn of our new manager’s vision.

Maybe it’s a trait of all managers that they are unable to deviate from their vision, as Moyes was also guilty of this, but Moyes desperately needs to learn from his mistakes if he is going to be a great manager.

I still believe that his ethos (with some tinkering) is worth pursuing, especially because it seems to encompass an ’academy up’ playing style, but he desperately needs to get a win soon or I feel he is doomed and will totally lose the dressing room. And we all know it’s game over when that happens.

I take your point that there are always two sides to the story but based on their workrate and the fact that we seem to fade in games, I really think there is no argument that this current side are nowhere near the fitness levels we saw during the Moyes years.

Gibson is a different matter entirely, i'd say if he was a snooker or darts player he would still miss most of the season with injury.

http://www.physioroom.com/news/english_premier_league/epl_injury_table.php

At least we are second in this table! Seriously though, some of this can be down to pure bad luck, but 18 hamstring injuries does point to some sort of underlying problem.

I wouldn’t hold up Man Utd as a good example though, they have had the most injuries this season I believe.

"One stat which went unheralded until recently was that in the 18 months of Martinez’s tenure, the Everton squad had been hit with 18 hamstring injuries – more than anyone else in the league – whereas previously Everton had a good record in this area."

Regarding the issue over Donachie's departure specifically (and in light of the above linked article), I'm led to believe you need look no further than Wolfsburg away when McCarthy had to come off after half an hour. He should never have started that game.

I assume last seasons energy levels were due to the pre-season preparation that David Moyes left us with and Martinez happily came in and just let happen.....I seem to recall Jagielka praising Martinez for new training methods and training at times of matches etc to acclimatise...

I'm as worried as the next, but don't think fan negativity at GP tomorrow will help the blues!

Allez, Allez, Allez oh....

Read the report mate.

You got all upset yesterday when somebody used the word Aplogist, yet you come and vigourously defend Martinez without knowing what you are defending him against

Do as Ray #43 suggests. It really is worrying stuff

As with all problems there are likely to be multi-factorial problems at play, the lack of strength in depth and Everton's paper thin squad in terms of quality once again comes back to bite the Club, Manager and supporters on the arse with sub standard performances.

A season with70+ games and we couldn't get the players fit. How does this happen? The players face another 25+ games with the pressure of staying away from the bottom three. Its to late to think about fitness levels, no time with games coming so quickly.

Pre season sums up the half way point of the season. A mess!

A lot of assumptions being made to disparage the manager with no foundation or fact ...

Anyone who thinks what we are seeing at the moment is not relegation form... please think again. RM may get it right in the end (though I doubt it) but our Club can't afford to wait and find out.

RM and ostriches are displaying similar behaviours. Get your head out the sand, Roberto, or get in the next taxi passing Goodison for all our sakes!

Another fact is that under Moyes no team in the League could not run us out becuause the players fitness and stamina was great. The only mistake Moyes did was to train the players too hard in the summer, so results at the beginning of the campaign was bad. But as the season went on Everton started to play better and better. We always had good second Seasons.

Now I don't see that the fitness levels will be good at any point this season. As with football strategy we seem to be totally lost.

The lack of point is not coincidence or bad luck, it is statistics. We let the opponents get too many good chances over 90 minutes, so the likelyhood that they will score is too big. On the other hand we don't create so many chances we should to produce enough goals to win. To win games in the long run you need to create more goal scoring chances than the opponents. That does not happen at the moment, and has not happen for a long while.

The reasons for this are plentyfull but the main reasons for this are as I see it:
1. Fitness levels are not good enough.
2. Not using a good football strategy (playing the same and same strategy again and again no matter if it works or not).
3. Players are not used at their best positions.
then you can break all these this down to more detailed problems.

To say that training running without the ball is pointless is one of the most stupid comments I have heard in my life. It does not matter how you train as long as you run as hell when there is a game. You win football games by running over your opponents. That is how you create chances... running, running and running. The more you run the more confused the opponents become and the more chances you are likely to get. The more chances you get, the more goals you score.

This season we have lost several points from winning positions. We have recovered very few from losing positions. We always look a bit knackered around the 70 min mark. And most worryingly there is a general lack of sharpness and intensity permeating all our play. I'd like to see the stats but I bet we cover less ground than a lot of prem teams (especially when missing McCarthy who has a fantastic engine).

I remember his last season in charge when we lost to Norwich away, late February, and we looked shattered. I was at the time saying, that he flogged dead horses, and this was after a great first half to the season.

It was obvious to everyone that Everton were not fit at the start of this season, and maybe Martinez was trying to hold us back for the second half of this season? If that was the plan, it's backfired badly and unless results pick up quickly will probably cost him his job.

Remember our warm weather training last January, and everyone thinking the players would be flying when they returned. We looked lethargic then, but later went on a very good unbeaten run, and beat Man Utd who hadn't played for a fortnight, after playing our third game in a week.

Every manager rushes key players back from injury, but Jagielka wasn't rushed back when Stones came on the scene last year. For me, the two centrebacks and the keeper let the manager down early in the season, and maybe the senior pros might be the manager's biggest problem now? That is after himself of course, because if he doesn't get us out of this slump soon, he will be following the physio out the door.
I hope he gets it right because I think there is a very good manager in Martinez, but now is not a time for anymore talking, especially since he's even having a bad time doing that!

There's a lot of issues here and I don't think the injuries we've had are the blame of Martinez. The hamstring injury to McCarthy has really shown up how much he protects the defence and the cover he provides for Barry.

Miralles was injured for a considerable time during Moyes tenure, so it's not a new thing for him to be out injured. Pinaar has been out for a long time (or several smaller runs) so we've had, well, I've said it before. we've had a lot of injuries to men who weren't injured as much last season.

I think that's the major problem we've had. I can't argue about the fitness as I'm not a fitness expert. All I'd say is that we look pedestrian a lot of the time now. Partly, I think it's because other teams have worked out who are our key men and closed up on them. partly to fairly lengthy injuries to those key men at times. Then the defenders, especially Jagielka and Distin are left passing the ball to each other until they eventually lose it in many cases.

I'd love to see us really go at teams and get right in their faces. Whether they don't because they're under Martinez' orders or whether we haven't had Pinaar and Miralles fit at the same time, for most of the season, is a debatable point but at the moment it is depressing, as I think we waste the talent that Lokuku has. Our defence is shown up without Barkley and McCarthy running from midfield.

Maybe I'm being a bit harsh on McGeady but it seems to me that he is one of the worst culprits I've seen for ages in regularly losing the ball, quite often without any tackle form the opposition To me that's deplorable but maybe he's always done that, I don't know.

So we have Miralles at the moment who I would consider a good winger. Even though Pienaar is maybe coming to the end, I think we miss him as well. That is why I think Baines has been nothing like as effective as last season. I don't think McGeady is good enough (hope I'm wrong) and we don't have any other wingers at the club until Pienaar is fit

I do think Martinez has to change our style, certainly while we have McCarthy injured. I'd hope we would use Besic more but the quicker Stones is back in defence and perhaps Oviedo can provide pace where we need it, going forward. Mind you, we need it in defence as well.

The technical term is we're up shit creek until we get everyone fit.

Anyone got an email address for Roberto and Bill so I can forward it on to them, I know 15 or so players who could do with a lift...

- Who ended up replacing Irvine as Academy head?
- Who are the current fitness coaches?
- Is Unsworth permanent u21s manager now? Stubbs brought him in as assistant and it seems like he has just kept turning up, never heard it confirmed he was taking over permanently.

These are all important roles which need doing properly by the best people we can get. WhatÂ’s going on?

Now before anyone asks - I have no medical or training qualifications but I have had some personal experiences which involved me increasing my own flexibility, which when I read the Saint Rockwood Blog, rang some bells with me.

I am now 66 years of age. When I was a teenager I played rugby union and football. At the age of 20 I was as fit as a fiddle and had a good turn of speed. Despite that I was never able to touch my toes. I can now, in fact I can throw either leg up past hip height and touch my toes without warming up and without hurting myself. This is because my hamstrings are now longer when at rest than when I was 20.

Let me pause here for a moment and say that I believe if anyone is telling James McCarthy to stretch his hamstrings using conventional methods, they are doing him a great disservice. In fact they are compounding his problems.

This belief is founded on the philosophy of the great Moshe Feldenkrais. Have a read of this:
Link

Feldenkrais was of the opinion that stretching your hamstrings using conventional methods actually created microscopic tears in the muscle which when they healed had the effective of shortening the muscle.

Muscles work in pairs. They are designed in such a way that when one muscle contracts your brain tells it's partner to elongate. Feldenkrais' method is about reorganising your cerebral cortex through a system of simple an gentle exercises to improve your flexibility and quality of movement.

Many professional dancers use this method as part of their training regime.

Some may be interested in reading his quotes:
Link

Up the Blues!

But can you crack walnuts at the same time?

This Feldenkrais seems to know what he's talking about. It could explain why half our team have one leg shorter than the other. Maybe they should do more dancing during training.

The original physio article does not seem angled, and yet the blog turns "...when players are over or under-worked" into a clear indication of "The 18 hamstring injuries directly correlate with the time Billows has been absent from the club."

So how about we correlate this to the extra games of The Europa League... as in over working rather than under working? Sounds like I'm changing the narrative right?

But let's look at two stories featuring Leon: "Our form hasn't been great recently. We have had injuries..." Britton, from around this time last year when Swsnsea were in The Europa League. What you don't know is everything he's ever said? Probably Martinez's fault for not bringing him to Wigan and then us. Please read both articles in full before responding:

Article 1 Article 2

Anyway, I think there's a pretty easy way to answer the questions raised, and here's the conclusive proof!

Danny Donachie moved on only last week, but if he was so highly regarded by Moyes, then why was he not part of his backroom staff at Man Utd? This sounds harsh against someone who's served our club for a decade or so, but it's the easy thing to point out... I mean it's not even like he's been a part of The Moyesiah's big Barcelona win either. For what it's worth, I wish Donachie luck.

What of Steve Tashjian? Well he's back at Columbus... but perhaps he could be blamed with Saha, Rodwell and Vaughan injuries given he arrived 2009-10. He also didn't go with Moyes to Man Utd, probably fortunately for him – but it begs the question, right?!

Finally, Dave Billows who joined Newcastle in the summer. Yeah, they had a brilliant start didn't they.

Again, none were taken with Moyes, Irvine didn't swoop in while at West Brom and neither Man City/Chelsea/PSG or even Oldham Athletic stole in to get these guys. Yet they're made out as some kind of crack team to shoehorn in an attack on Martinez.

Yes, I respect these guys for helping Everton... but I have no idea if they're realky any good because I never worked with them nor do I work in their fields. Instead a fairly generic article about the holistic wellbeing of players v's the commercial pressures of working for a professional club in an ever-evolving big pharma/sports science landscape, has been sliced into "proof" that our manager us an idiot.

Sorry, I don't buy it.

SKINS A200 men's compression half tights with gradient compression do more than just moisture transportation and temperature regulation like a normal sportswear. They offer support and put gradual pressure on the muscles around the targeted area. They help improve blood circulation and increase oxygen supply to the muscles. As a result, these tights help build speed, power and endurance and aid in faster recovery. They also help reduce muscle vibration, offer relief from muscle pain and reduce the risk of injury.

I have worn them for a couple of years after tearing a hamstring playing amateur football and they feel great and I have had no recurrence of the injury.

Maybe somebody could recommend them to the Everton medical department, that's if we still have one.

Re Donachie, Billows and Tashjian not following Moyes. Maybe they were happy at Everton. Maybe Man Utd, in particular, wanted to keep their own backroom medical staff and made this clear to Moyes. And not everyone would want to uproot families etc. and go off to Spain even if they were asked.

What IS unarguable is Everton's poor fitness levels, high injury list and rubbish pre-season.

Chad, I agree that injuries have stopped us gathering any momentum, but neither has the manager helped us so far. The difference between us and Swansea last year is that they had to play a qualifier to get into the Europa League, whereas we had already qualified. If we would have had to play a qualifier, then the manager would have had to have us fitter at the start.

I'm probably wrong, but let's hope the manager did gamble at the start with our fitness and we are now going to get a lot stronger. Problem is that when confidence goes, life becomes very hard, and it could be down to the crowd to lift the players. For this to happen, Martinez, has got to get his head on the present, and stop fucking about with all this rotation.

In fact, given our recent attempts trying to play within RM's straight jacket, I might simply turn over!

If you have played football yourself you will know how important tough fitness work is to you having a good enough engine to last 90 minutes. Shuttle runs, running up hill, skipping etc are conventional forms of training for a reason, and so it is rather worrying (referenced in the comments above) to hear that Roberto rejects the concept of fitness training without the ball. Barry and Distin may be getting on but the manager should be providing them with the best possible preparation.

Far too much guesswork in all this. Possibly some truth that the training is not right, but Arsenal and Man Utd have had far more injuries this season, so maybe all clubs need to look at their methods?

Players these days are athletes first and foremost. The game in this country is played at such a pace they play right on the edge. Like a racehorse, when something like a hamstring twangs, it's usually quite severe.

People go on about playing 70 games a season in the eighties with only 16 players etc, BUT the game was slower then, pass back to the goalie a regular tactic so he could pick it up and delay things. Many of those players played on with cortisone injections and are half-crippled today.

Personally, I just think our gameplay is wrong. Too much concentrating on possession and not enough on getting the ball forward where we can do some damage. We need to mix it up a bit more, play the long ball over the top for Lukaku to run on to some of the time, be less predictable. We are one-dimensional. Sort out the players' heads and sort out your own, Roberto. The fitness thing is secondary and, although I agree the pre-season was crap and he accepts defeats to Swansea and Krasnodor far too easily for my liking, we also have a bit of second season syndrome as well. Moyes came 17th in his, 4th the year after, so we shouldn't be panicking just yet.

In addition, you remark that "People go on about playing 70 games a season in the eighties with only 16 players etc, BUT the game was slower then". I think you might do well to revisit some of these "slower" games via YouTube.

Sure, the ball was played back to the goalie but he didn't hang on to it, he played the ball out to start an attack. Same with goal kicks, you didn't see a goalie wandering across his area from one side to the other to take a goal kick from the opposite side from where the ball went out, time-wasting.

I think you'll find that the ball was in play for longer than it is today. No writhing in agony before jumping up and running like a stag, no kicking the ball out because a team mate had broken a finger nail or lost an eyelash. Players (but not us) may be fitter today and may be able to run faster for longer, but the game itself has more stoppages than ever.
I agree with some of your last paragraph, but fitness is not secondary, it's paramount and second-season syndrome is all in the mind. Being found out by better coaches is not second-season syndrome.

Whatever, we need an injection of pace, stamina and fight plus a plan B.

Confidence is low, our support is needed tonight, not hysteria. Second season syndrome is in the head, Ray. It happens a lot when players and teams ease up after initially being desperate to impress. The trick is to kick start yourselves again. So the next few months are crucial. Get it right and next season will be a good one, get it wrong and we may even be relegated. Over to you Roberto, time to earn your money. Senior players also need to do more organising on the pitch.

Maybe he had lost interest because he was going elsewhere,but those are the facts.

When we had loads of injuries in 2000/01 it was put down by fans as being down to Archie Knox training them too hard. We had many seasons under Moyes where we had chronic injury lists, again fans said his training was too intense.

When we moved to Finch Farm fans blamed a too inflexible surface in the artificial pitches as being the cause if injuries!

Now, we supposedly don't train hard enough. Meanwhile Van Gaal is training his Manure players too hard causing all their injuries according to their fans.

Laurier Hartley's hamstring explanation makes sense. It's based on logic, reason and facts, not a desperation to blame somebody or something, when frankly the tactics have not been good enough and as you say other coaches have sussed our way of playing, as they usually do in a second season.

@92. Funny isn't it, how we all see our clubs differently to how other fans see us. I was reading a thread on the BBC Sports last week and several fans of other clubs came on to say how much respect they have for Everton " a proper football club run the right way with a good chairman" etc. They obviously don't stray onto ToffeeWeb!

Raymond, I think you might be in the minority there,mate, just about every thread contains comments about us flagging after 60-70 minutes.

And we were good enough last season to gather a record number of Premier League points (for us) a number that would have got us into CL Football in just about every other season. Something is definitely gone wrong this season.

1.) Our pre season prepartations were not good enough. We started behind the rest of the other teams physically.
2.) Leicester and Arsenal coming back to draw in games that they should never have. Mentally effected us.
3.) Our attack suffered because of this. Coleman and Baines do not go forward as much. This has resulted into over a hundred less crosses this time than last season.
4.) Lukaku has had the ball behind him mostly this season, rather than crossed in front of him. Coleman and baines do not get into the box (not fit enough, or told to keep back). Drawing more defenders to them, and so our attackers are always marked.
5.) Everton have been very very unlucky with the refs.

This has resulted into the shambles we have right now. A squad that is physically, mentally, and tactically not there.

I think we should keep faith with Martinez because half of it is his doing. Hopefully he will learn from his mistakes. You learn more when times are hard.

Osman and Pienaar are on there last legs now, and as I said elsewhere its a quality attacking midfielder and a solid centre back that we badly need right now.

You're still wrong, though.:-)

As for a midfielder, someone with the guile to spot a forward pass, a through ball, someone to help Lukaku out, that, and a centre back are required. I've also mentioned before that with a decent central defensive pair, Howard might look a better keeper.

One thing I have noticed is that some of the players are faster with the ball than without the ball-especially if they are tracking back. This compartmentalising of football into different bits -like how some teams have specialist attack or defence coaches- doesnt seem right as the game is a holistic exercise in which all parts must function as part of the whole.
Yes Roberto, work with the ball but always remember football is a running game and sometimes the running when you don’t have the ball is also an important part of the game-reference the way the great Barcelona team ran their opponents ragged with their pressing and chasing.

I don't know if it's down to coaching, poor morale, poor fitness or fear of yet another hamstring injury. But we will not start winning again until we compete properly for the ball. And as for training methods, surely Martinez must realise that footballers spend 95% of the game running without the ball?

I am sure that something will happen to check the fall from grace before we get dragged into a relegation scrap. Until then the harbingers of doom should stop filling these sites with remarks that could be deemed as libellous if unsubstantiated.

We are mid table with a lot of injuries. Our squad is too small and I accept that fact. I for one do not know what is going on behind the scenes, so will not speculate. I reckon those in the same position should wait until they know, rather than write about what they think they know.

Clearly there is a fitness problem - by which I mean inability to last the full 90 minutes. Martinez must take responsibility for that. The soft tissue damage is being looked into and may be to do with training methods. Or may be corrected by better medical staff that hopefully will be brought in.