Martinez moves to defuse Mirallas penalty row

I would rather he state he was subbed for the penalty debacle than support him when he has given us the chance of scoring, strange.

You are not fooling anyone with that answer Roberto. I watched Gary N and Jamie C and listening to their incredulity at the situation was toe curling. Mirallas should have played his last game for this Club and it’s a crying shame as he is a real talent.

The real issue here is team discipline and there clearly wasn’t any. That’s down to RM.

He was wrong, but he was trying to be a leader and set a positive tone. I think his intentions were good, because he's one of the few in this squad that has any steel whatsoever.

The whole thing is an amateurish nightmare, and unless something changes quickly we'll probably get relegated for the first time in most of our lifetimes.

Let see how the player, the players and the manager reacts first. Sanchez did the same for arsenal, are they bombing out their best player? No.

At times Carragher and Neville talk sense, but they aren't 100% right all the time. I am fairly certain if Sterling or Van Persie would have been man handled twice and thrown in the net they would have been screaming for a penalty. It's funny how the top teams can get more than penalty, where as everyone doesn't. Carragher cheated in the Derby, and he cheated as a pundit.

LetÂ’s face it, weÂ’re a mess.

If Kev wants to take over anything from Leighton, itÂ’s corners and free kicks because they are becoming woeful. That debacle of a corner last night, when he took it short and then received it back in an offside position, just about summed up thus season so far.

Apart from the fact that it was a Plan B, I suppose.

Can anyone answer me this question? Who is in charge of the asylum called Everton?

Please, please everyone read the article "A day in the life of Bobby M" in the Fiver (Guardian) from yesterday.

Absolutely spot on. Everyone can see it but Martinez himself.

I'm adding my name to the Martinez Out crowd. These performances are dyer and two of the best players on the pitch got subbed in a game we have the ability to win. It's not just based on this game but the last few months.

What benefit is there in winning Europa when we're losing it in the Premier league?

To me it didn't look like Besic had called to be brought off, he looked well pissed off, you could see him gesturing to Martinez as if to say "why me?"

For two-thirds of the pitch we played well. In the final third we hit the Wall of Pulis and couldn't cope. Partly this is down to Lukaku being unable to make the ball stick - I know his strength is running on to it, but really, it bounces off him like he has anvils for feet. Partly this is down to a lack of urgency. So many times I thought go early only for the likes of Coleman or Naismith to turn and hit a ball square. Hesitancy and fear.

Poor Barkely was the pick of the bunch in terms of underwhelming. Drag-backs look good but when you receive the ball and turn, perform a drag-back and pass it back to the player who gave it you... kind of a waste of time. Again it's fear - lack of confidence.

I'm one of the few who still believes Martinez can give us something, but after that nonsense with Mirallas and bringing off Besic - the one player who to me looked a bit feisty - it's getting harder and harder to justify. I certainly don't blame anybody for saying they've had enough now - believe in principles and style of play is one thing, but there are other elements to management that RM seems unable or unwilling to address. Really gutted right now.

I think he brought Besic off because he wanted a striker - Kone - to provide more fire power. As for Mirallas we've been told for the past few weeks that his ankle is still giving him trouble - believe it or not. Overall I thought we played well last night until we reached the outskirts of the WBA penalty area and then everything fell apart because we lack anyone with a killer defence-splitting pass. You could fault nobody for lack of effort but confidence is obviously low. It might also be said that WBA hardly excelled at playing real football.

Tony Waring, I can see why he brought Kone on, but why Besic? It was a terrible decision and one he seems to make every week whilst Barry achieves nothing other than a record yellow card count.

Miralles was a disgrace, and if his ankle/hamstring/insert an other crap excuse, why was he taking a penalty? He is finished at Everton but will he be out in January or the summer?

We didn't play well, WBA just allowed us to have all the possession we wanted until we got within 30 yards of goal. The rest of it was just passiing for passing sake.

I thought Barry was ok last night Andrew - made a few good interceptions at the back and broke up play when WBA broke forward. But like everyone else, he gave the ball away as soon as he reached the West from penalty area - one great ball to Baines aside.

My comments about Barry were more general over the season, but even last night he didn't seem to show any great urgency and why he should stay on and not Besic is a complete mystery to me. Besic is fast becoming a fans favourite and Roberto is a bit short on those right now

I think in the Morallas Decides thread I mentioned that Martinez wouldn't want him to leave until Monday night at the earliest so they could share a taxi to John Lennon.
It was a bit tongue in cheek at the time, well scrub that ! Please make it happen !!
Devoid of ideas. No confidence. Shit excuse for both substitutions. This team need a talking too not praise for playing shite.
I believed the West Brom game was the match to decide Martinez' future. We did not win he has to go and go now.
Nothing to do with him personally but I don't support him I support EFC

Well. From memory that's the only game I have watched at a goodison where I was genuinely bored at times.
Now there's different elements to all of this and I feel that us, the fans do have a part to play. The tension was horrid last night you could feel it (apart from the drunken buffoon sat next to me with his 6 year old daughter whom he left for about 20 minutes alone whilst he went to the "toilet" before stumbling back to his seat)

Secondly. Martinez, I like him and I like his philosophy however, we have some old fashioned English players in our side... Jags, Barry, Naidy (scottish I know!) but you get my drift... So whilst the passing and posession game is good in principal you can not force it on players who have been brought up on a completely different style of play. It is Alien to them and at this stage of their careers you can't change there style of play.

So... What's the answer.... Well we either get BILL to put his hands in his pocket and buy players capable of this style (I'm NOT saying our players aren't good footballers but it's a different type of football)

Alternatively, we balance the posession with fast flowing pressing football and mix it up a lot more.
We are desperately in need of some magic in the final third and if it was up to me, I would do anything in my power to bring Del Boy back .... I would let him have a free role and not just stick him out wide as his talents are way too good to just be a wing player.

Add in a couple of spine players... GK, central defender and a strong ball playing midfielder and things will start to look a whole lot brighter.

KM should be reprimanded for the embarrassment the penalty debacle caused us. Had he scored he would have deserved the goal as he was the one who looked most likely in the first half.

Lukaku first touch is so bad his second touch is a header!

That said the lack of ideas; the substitution of Besic; Kone looking lost when he came on the lack of leadership over the penalty debacle is all down to RM and he should go and finish his apprenticeship at another lower league club because he and his staff should not be managing an institution such as EFC.

My post says nothing of the anger I feel with this man in charge.

I remember commenting to the lad sitting next to me that Mirallas was rubbing the back of his thigh part way through the first half. A classic indication of hamstring trouble. Makes it all the more bizarre that he wanted to take the penalty.
Bainesy should have pushed him away-you're from Kirkby lad not Kirkby Lonsdale! He must have been bullied terribly at school!

Ian Burns "...Rom's first touch is so bad his seconds a header..." Brought a smile to my face and brightened a grim morning.

Besic picked up a knock and asked to come off.

We need signings to rescue our season badly the fact we have no other attacking midfielders means Ross Barkley is being damaged and Naismith wasted on the wing.

McGeady wasn't even on the bench last night and rightly so but the lack of competition for places means players are underperforming and we are getting the square pegs round holes scenario too often.

The simple fact of having Deulofeu on the right last year meant Naismith and Barkley could play central, Pienaar missing all year has been a big loss a stunted Baines' attacking impact all these issues need to be addressed asap because the fact is we are now in a relegation battle!

John Malone, McGeady was suspended last night. My guess is he will be starting againist Crystal Palace next time out ahead of Miralles

McGeady was banned John

Regardless on which players stay or go, that will all be sorted out in 2 weeks time, and whoever is left or in, that's it for 6 months.
However this knee shaking, lying(yes lying), over hyped manager should go. He is treating supporters with total disrespect, brushing our long history in the top flight, slowly but surely into the second tier. Even worse is blaming Injuries for substitutions, its plain to see Injuries have nothing to do with it.
Are all EFC supporters that stupid?, apparently RM thinks so.
Yes its time for him to go, and in the next few days, we need a new lease of life in our playing on the pitch and support off it. If BK does not act now, post Arsenal match in 6 weeks time, maybe too late for all concerned. BK needs to be cold, callous without fear or favor, for the long term stability of EFC, Sack Roberto Martinez, this week.

Fair play to Baines. He didn't want to resort to a school yard tug of war over the ball. He tapped him on the head and told him to bury it.

The penalty was awful. Mirallas is a great player on his day, but he's always seemed to be in it for himself. Even his Belgian team mate Lukaku looked genuinely pissed at him, before he even missed the penalty.

Cash in now and get some reinforcements in.

Martinez must go before we end up.in the Championship and are replaced by Bournemouth. Sounds crazy doesn't it, but it just might happen. Kenwright needs to find the guts to get rid and get rid now, before it's too late. I think, at any other club, Martinez would already have been shown the door, but Kenwright will probably dither until we 'do a Wigan.'

http://www.whoateallthepies.tv/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/sam-the-eagle.jpg

Check out this Martinez look-a-like!!

This is Bobby's second season so how do you think compares to Moyes' second season where we finished 17th and scored an Everton record of lowest goals? (36 I think). Are people more worried now than then? We definitely have better players. I know I am certainly more bored than I have ever been.

You just don't do what Mirallas did,when you are struggling in the league and desperate for 3 points! If he was on a hat trick and we are two nil up then that is a different situation. I am Most annoyed because Martinez didn't have the balls to say he was wrong and it will be dealt with internally!

I think Martinez has two games to save his job and if we don't get the right results we need than he will be gone, let's just hope we get the results because if we don't we will be in serious trouble.

On an up note, Besic is a class player, Martinez should have taken off Barkley for Kone!

Al, the difference in that season was that the team fell apart once it was mathematically safe from relegation. What worries me more this season is that we seem to be in more of a mess of the pitch and I had more confidence in Moyes being able to grind out enough points.

I am gutted to the core - it is already 1pm here and RM is still the manager at EFC!

AL, 2003-2004, his second full season, 2 big differences, 1, 3 teams were stranded for most of the season, 2, we played some entertaining football at times, granted we lost the last 4, but never remotely in a touch and go situation, this season we are in a dog fight, and we aint got a pack leader in RM.

Imagine the pressure on Baines when we next win a penalty.

I agree with Mike@3. I think he had the best intentions and we'd be talking about how he stepped up to the mark if he banged it in. He's been up for it mostly when he's played this season and obviously felt confident. It shouldnt have happened though. Someone should have stopped him. Whether it be Martinez, Baines, our Captain or any other of our shithouse players.

What dissapoints me; PG, tying his boot laces on the half way line, "nothing to do with me, honest Guv" attitude, he should have taken control, no ifs no buts. If someone at Chelsea wanted to take the penalty off a 90% plus regular penalty taker on a crucial penalty, do you think John Terry would have let it happen?. The weakest meak n mild captain, ever to put on the armband for our illustrious club, id say take it off him, but I fear he would start crying. Definitely not one to rely on in a bar to cover your back.

It will all be ok. I thought we played alright last night and but for Mirallas acting like a div we would have won it.

Quite right Harold, needless pressure brought on by a selfish act on Mirallas part.

Christian, is there a specsavers by you? Or is this just bait, if so Hooked!

Harold #33, it'll be next season, the way the refs have been with us lately.

Jagielka seems to be getting as much stick as Mirallas here. The captain has walked off assuming Baines would take it. By the time he realised what was going on it was too late. I don't think there's anything he could have done.

Exactly Harold.

Unnecessary pressure no matter what happened. Pressure on Mirallas because the bigheaded twat took the ball, he HAS to score or pressure on Baines if he wrestled it back (which he should have done and told the arrogant prick to fuck off)

Ian 17, not too sure what game you were watching, the one I saw had Mirallas stuck to the line and doing absolutely fuck all with the ball when he got it. Great players impose themselves into a game, this fucker is happy to stand still on the line wait for the ball to eventually get to him.

On another note, I wish we would take a leaf from the Redshite's book and do a Stirling with Barkley and send him on holiday for a few weeks. The man's confidence is in tatters and he will ot get back to the correct frame of mind whilst these bottlers are playing this way.

He was less than useless yesterday and I have yet to see him make a tackle this season.

God, I hate Everton sometimes, you can tell by how sweary my posts are becoming this season

Tomy J - 41 - my comment was that KM was the one most likely which says a great deal about the rest of them!

Had he put penalty away we would have been saying at least he was the one to stand up and be counted.

As it is that miss could define our season if we come up a point or two short!

Martinez would never openly criticize one of his players.

The way I see it Mirallas disobeyed TEAM orders and is an egotistical bell end. I hope Nessi lamper him in the tunnel cos I would've done if one of my team mates did that. It was all about him.
As for taking Besic off for Kone...I get the whole bring a striker on thing but not for Besic. Barry was actually playing okay but Barkley is moving like he's in treacle and his speed of thought and movement is causing us to lose the ball a lot. He should've got dragged off to protect his clearly waning confidence from dipping any further. I've backed Martinez all along but I can't defend the indefensible any more.

Why are people looking to blame Martinez, Baines or Jags for Mirallas behaving like that???

If it was even debatable who should take the penalty then yes I would expect Jags to be involved, he was 30 yards away.

Forget this whole "Mirallas leadership" nonsense. He had never taken a mid game penalty in his time here but the week that his contract is up for debate he decides to not just volunteer but "grab the ball" like a 7 year old child.

We have the most successful penalty taker currently playing in the prem. It is beyond me just quite what Mirallas thought he was doing.

He has put Martinez in a tough situation, it appears our belgian contingent have one good game and then think they can do what they want.

Apparently, Mirallas wanted to score to lift his shirt showing a message in support of the young Belgian footballer who recently died.

ThatÂ’s no excuse for costing us the game mind, but thatÂ’s why he wanted to take the penalty so much.

Ian Burns - Lukaku's first touch is so bad he was asked to host Top of the pops.

Colin G - you say that Mirallas disobeyed team orders. the likelihood is that we don't have such things for pens as they are after-all a set piece and Roberto has probably worked out that teams only get them once ever 927 minutes on average so there is absolutely no need to make any plans for them, let alone issue team orders as to what to do if we do get one.

It was v v clear we were struggling to break down their defence... I really don't know what it is right now with Barkley... I'm 36 years old and a stone or two over where I should be!!!! I would quite happily of taken the shirt off him last night and I guarantee I would of had a better game than him.... I certainly would of given more effort.

So... Why oh why have Mcaleney on the bench who can create and can make things hapoen. Why not give him a run with 15 to go... Couldn't possibly of been worse than Barkley.

All those EFC supporters defending Martinez are not watching the same games. He is not a top manager, He has no plan B, He is a bullshitter, and if we don't get rid of him, We will be relegated. In the last 12 years of the Premier League, those clubs that had less than 28 points after 30 games, over 85% were relegated. We play QPR away March 21st, I don't see us having 29 points by this fixture with this man in charge. Will those same people still be backing him, if the QPR game is a SKY six point relegation battle?

Maybe Lukaku would get a few more goals if we got a left winger who didn't want to cut in and shoot EVERY bloody time he got the ball

Can't be defended. A symptom of a team that is sick right now.

I took penalties for my team for years. It got questioned three times... Once by the manager outside of a game after I'd missed (my only ever miss, mind) and I said I'd carry on. Once a teammate asked if I wanted him to take one (game straight after that same miss) and I turned him down, and once when a teammate was on a hat trick in a rout - I offered it... and I got bollocked by the manager afterwards for giving it to him!

That was at semi pro level... and there was never a question of anyone taking the ball. What kind of premier league team can't get the most basic of basics right?

I really want to hear Kev's side of this because something sinks here. Footballers don't do what he did... I can't believe that there wasn't something behind it.

Ant,well said couldn't agree more. There is only one way this clown is taking us and that's down. This crap that were not like the red shite, we don't sack managers, he needs time. Well he has had plenty of the time to turn things around. It's quite obvious that he is being dictated to by the players and on them grounds alone he should go. He has ran out of any ideas,the players are not playing or fighting for him and quite simply just don't believe in him anymore. Get shut now before any of what little quality we have left at the club will also leave,and god forgive we get relegated.

Ok I'll accept the Besic brought off because of a knock excuse but defending Mirallas here is a joke. You can clearly see on the video replays that the players including his best mate on the team Lukaku were telling him to give the ball to Baines but the arrogant twat was having none of it, I'm definitely not buying the injured hamstring bullshit. He needs to be moved on and preferably this window.
On a plus note thought Besic was superb, when McCarthy is fit them two will be great anchoring our midfield, Barry should be moved back to CB I think he'll be a great replacement for Distin, and the fact that Robles hasn't been mentioned in any posts can only be a good thing.

what is all this "players don't want to play for him nonsense" - I don't care if they do or don't. They are professional footballers. They know how to do the basics, they aren't even doing that right.

The way I see it:
Robles - seems sound enough at the moment
Coleman - steady but not doing teh same runs he did last year (probably because the player usually in front of him is not up to much for creating space etc.).
Jags - doing ok
Stones - looking better every week
Baines - ok defense - attacking just does not have a player to link up with like Pienaar. Corners are awful - does he ever beat the first man.
Mo - doing great
Barry - ok defensively but passing is poor
McCarthy - best player we have - needs to get more involved going forward
Barkley - don't know whats happened to him - passes sideways now and never covers back
Naismith - great worker but how many of his passes go astray - now competing with Lukaku for pin ball champion
Lukaku - pinball expert - must have more in his locker than what he is doing now
Mirallas - does he every beat a defender on the outside?
Always uses others space.
McGeady - great feet but no end product
Oviedo - we need to play him more - great energy
Kone - Always thought he was a great target man for Wigan - if he can do the same here he will be useful

We are crying out for a play maker - somebody to unlock defenses.
We also need balance - we either seem to play some on the right or somebody on the left - this means most of our attacks come from one side of the pitch and to easy to defend against.

Mirallas is a silly boy for taking the penalty. Baines is the regular penalty taker, and should not have been changed. In all forms of team sports where there is a penalty taker, the regular taker always has first refusal, because taking a penalty is down to experience in the 'heat of the moment.'

Mirallas should be fined at least a week’s wages, he has shown a complete disregard for his team and a lack of respect to the fans who have paid to see the team play because of his own arrogant and selfish behaviour. I am convinced that this would not have happened had we not had such a weak manager who has already been undermined by the players and has clearly lost the respect and his authority over the players.

Mirallas was a disgrace last night but he clearly wants out and this is the excuse he needs to leave for less than his true value. Get Martinez out before it’s too late!

I'm all for a positive outlook but it has to be tempered by realism sometimes. Watching the sports summary on BBC, I saw the interview with Roberto and quite frankly was astonished by his explanation for Mirallas taking the penalty. Basically, he seemed to say that it was up to the players to sort out, based on willingness to shoulder responsibility, confidence etc. Abdication of responsibility if you ask me. These things should be worked out in advance and there has to be a bloody good reason why the main penalty taker, who has converted 15 out of 16 previous penalties, is replaced. Last night I was mad at that spoilt brat Mirallas, today you can add Martinez to the list. Does anyone really believe that bullshit about his hamstring at half time? Does anyone believe Martinez in general any more? In 2008 when still working for a major bank, we were assured by our leader that we were "sufficiently capitalised". One year later as the Bank nearly went to the wall, thousands of people were laid off. If we're not careful, a major calamity is about to befall our football club.

Cut the PR bullshit, face facts, be pragmatic and roll your sleeves up. We're in a dogfight. I don't want to hear Martinez's spin and platitudes any more. Start by facing the Mirallas issue head on. If that means shipping him out, so be it.

This is a hard one, ToffeeWeb depresses me nowadays but i'm going to speak up and have my 10p worth. Moyes was extreme, regimented, diligent, no messing, no freedom of movement,the players hated it, everyone in the club hated it, ToffeeWeb hated it. Martinez allows, free flowing, freedom, confidence, positivety and team work, last year the team showed that expressive nature. Unfortunately some of the old guard and the kids have taken this as ease up, take the foot off the gas and an easy place to play. I love Eto'o as a player what football fan doesn't but now it smacks of Gazza, Hughes, Ginola a place to come and earn some easy cash. Hence why he will be shown the exit door very soon. Martinez will be a top class manager once he has the opportunity to build something properly not live off Moyes' team. I love EFC, I love our club and I love the atmosphere our ground creates, last night was a disgrace and the team are split down the middle its clear to see. Every team, club, company has their position and priorities and Everton FC are no different. Neville and Carragher were right last night Jags, Barry shouldn't be stewarding their own team, people should know their roles and stick to them. Baines should have stood up for himself but he didn't he looked shocked. Fair play to Naisy after the game, a true sport, a gent (we have seen this from him off the pitch) for keeping it inhouse, someone with less intelligence would have blurted it out on national TV. If Mirallas doesn't like Everton anymore then leave like Lescott, Rodwell, Pienaar, Arteta, no one cares we will replace you and you will be forgotten. Lastly, please remember Martinez was touted by people supporting Barca, Arsenal last year as a possible manager you DO not lose that ability in 6-9 months, end of. Fans of our beloved EFC be careful for what you wish for Martinez is the right man for the job.

Totally agree with Ernie (52)

I played in a game where we were awarded a penalty and our flash new winger grabbed the ball to take it. We had an excellent penalty taker on the team and the manager roared at Billy Big Balls to hand the ball over.
Penalty was duly dispatched, BBB got slagged off by everyone and sulked for the rest of the match.

Standard practice back then and always should be - The penalty taker takes the penalties, end of.

Ernie, you're right it shouldnt happen but it does, and not just to us. Sanchez did it for Arsenal against QPR. He took the ball of Cazorla and missed his penalty too. It just puts an unbelievable ammount of pressure on the penalty taker imo. No need for it at all.

The issue is v v simple. You have a designated penalty taker and he takes it. The only deviation from this ever should be if you are coasting to victory and someone is on a hat trick... A mutual agreement is made then which whether he scores or not, it doesn't matter as you win the game.

What Kevin Mirallas did last night is create pressure from every angle.

1/ Pressure on himself as he had to score if he took it. He didn't

2/if Bainsy had said "no" to him, then Bainsy would of been under a lot more pressure than usual because of the discussion

3/ Bainsy again next time we get awRded a penalty... It will DEFINATELY play on his mind.

The whole thing is far more involved and just creates a massive amount of pressure for everyone.

However.... And there's always a but.... What would we be talking about had he scored? What would we have been criticising then? Would we have even been talking about it as an incident? I doubt it.

So in the grand scheme of things we should just try and put it aside and focus on something far more damaging and that is the rot that has set in at the club and the awful awful awful football that was on display last night.

What is the matter with Barkley? All theses touches but hardly a forward one, sideways all the time. No confidence it looks like to me.

Baines has been with us six years he should have insisted that he takes the penalties, but maybe his confidence is shot.

Talking of confidence, who is sure Martinez can snap us out of it? Not me... Taxi for our manager.

Neil, well said. If KM had put it in, the debate would have been but a minor footnote in our history.
It doesn't change the feeling that KM is a prima donna, but I suspect that we all already knew it.

If he played for anyone else, we would think he was a sulky, spoilt brat.

If he was wearing a Tee shirt with his mates name on, then I can understand his sentiments, but why do these guys think that their personal issues should be broadcast to all and sundry.
The sight of Lukaku and him at WestHam, pointing up to the sky was absurd, just like Frank Lampard pointing up all the soddin time at his late mum.
We've all got dead people, but in most walks of life it isn't seen as the done thing to start pointing up at the sky willy-nilly.
Imagine if the girl on the checkout at Aldi threw your goods into your trolley in rapid time, setting an in-house record and then started poiting upwards, to be joined by other members of staff, coz a friend, who was a very promising young shelf-stacker died in a pallet truck accident.

I wouldn't be too impressed.

Pmsl at that one Eddie. Like you and Neil have already stated, if he'd scored we'd probably be talking about the shambolic, sub-par performance last night
WBA were there for the taking last night but Lukaku, Mirallas, Naismith and Barkley decided to go walkies and were absolutely awful. I've defended this team and manager to my own detriment at times but last night was the night the straw broke the camel's back.
I'm not going down the 'we're going to get relegated' road because we are not, there are far poorer sides out there than us, fortunately. But I'm not going to continue to defend this overpaid, underperforming, pampered and spoilt bunch of twats any more. They can defend themselves.

Oh, and I hope they enjoy their holiday in the sun!!

I hope there's 3 poorer teams than us out there.

Just had a quick look at the OS.

Baines on the forthcoming Qatar trip: "ItÂ’ll be like a mini pre-season."

Better late than never.

There are Jamie. Leicester, QPR, Burnley, Hull, Villa and CP are poorer than us (on paper). This is our saving grace IMO.

Colin
you lasted quite well and it took a while but finally you've seen the light.
Extremely difficult to accept I know but we all love this Club passionately and no manager or player should come above it.
Just sorry it took you longer to see what a lot of us have been seeing all season and you've been given the stick you've had.

The suspicion for me is that he was trying to boost his goal scoring record to make himself more marketable and his agent can get better offers .

Colin @70 - This is the most frustrating bit, on paper we should be a top 10 team at least, but on current form we are bottom of the league and there is simply no denying that.

I would not fancy us to beat any of the teams you mentioned at the moment and with this manager in charge I see no reason for that to change until he goes.

John, the thing is, he's not going to get sacked this far into the season.
He's going to come back with the same group of players (I doubt we'll be buying anyone this month) and, hopefully, they'll be able to scrape enough points to see us safe by mid-March, at least.
I'm not going to jump onto the 'sack Martinez' bandwagon because I can't see what use it will do. I don't know if he will be in charge next August and to be perfectly honest, I don't care.
I admire his footballing philosophy/dream but maybe it's not the right fit for the Goodison faithful who have been brought up on a more direct, dynamic style. If he stays this season, and next, then I pray he learns and adapts because right now, this is totally shit football.

We are too nice. Mirallas should have been told to fuck off. If not by Baines, then certainly by Jagielka.

Unfortunately, he (Jags) just isn’t captain material.

Too nice. Non confrontational. He’s always smiling before games, offering polite handshakes and friendly hello’s.

Compare that to Besic yesterday evening. He barely looked at anyone in the West Brom team as they did the obligatory handshakes. Instead, he looked focused and a little pissed off by it all.

And it shows in his game. He’s got that competitive streak in him. That boy wants to win.

I’m afraid too few of his teammates seem to share that quality at present.

They may well be hurting inside, but as fans, we want and need to see it on the field.

We’re in a relegation fight. So let’s start fighting before our niceness sees us relegated.

Eddie

If Mirallas had put it in, he'd still be a selfish, greedy, big-headed twat who's in it for himself and has been angling for a move away from Everton asap, who just snatched the ball off a loyal club man who has an almost perfect penalty record.. So there's that!

Cash in and let simeone get to grips with him - would make good viewing!

Colin, its not a 'sack Martinez' bandwagon, its just a large group of devoted Everton fans who are scared stiff that if Roberto is left in charge until mid March, it will be too late for anyone to save us.

Christopher, I wonder if Kevin's reading any of this thread? Perhaps the powers that be could translate it into Flemish?

I was there last night; the atmosphere reminded me of the Everton vs Coventry match 1983-84. This was the infamous "cushions thrown from the stand" game. Confidence was zero that night, this is the same team that we were pinching ourselves having watched fast flowing football not seen since the glory days.

He has sucked all the confidence from that flying team we left him with last summer. RM has 2 games to save his arse. If he fails these 2 games, BK needs to act.

Kev
it's right now he should be out.
This never ending 2 games to prove he can get us out the shit is never ending.
By the time everyone says enough it will be too late.
Nothing has changed since Leicester away first game of the season. No lessons have been learned by Martinez. Nothing has been addressed until the players had words a few weeks ago.
We can't beat West Brom at home our form is diabolical. The longer we wait the harder it becomes.
Anyone and I really mean anyone could be no worse than the present fuckwits !

Well, Colin, at least we have a manager in place who is well versed in the avoidance of relegation. After all he did save the Pie Eaters three times before they fell through the trap door !

There comes a point when a line has to be drawn in the sand. That time is not after CP; nor is it at the end of the season - that line should be drawn now.

Please BK draw the ruddy thing!

Thought I'd post this article...
Kevin Mirallas penalty miss: is it anarchy at Everton or no big deal?

But perhaps Everton fans should also be concerned by what did not happen. As Mirallas may or may not know, earlier this season in the Belgian league Anderlecht's young midfielder Youri Tielemans argued with his team's designated penalty-taker, Nathan Kabasele, over the right to take a spot-kick against Genk. Anderlecht's goalkeeper and captain, Silvio Proto, ran the length of the pitch to impose order, commanding Tielemans to step aside and let Kabasele take it (he missed, but that's not the point). Why did Everton's captain, Phil Jagielka, not make such a decisive intervention last night?

He missed, but that's not the point? That's exactly the point. Regardless of what Jags could have done, or Baines could have done, the problem was there with no solution. As soon as someone does what Mirallas did you have a problem.

For what it's worth, I'm glad that Jags didn't run up the pitch and grab the ball. We would look even more shambolic than we already do. And Baines would have taken that penalty with even more doubt and pressure than Mirallas did.

Am I right in hearing that Mirallas had a t-shirt under his top with a message on for his friend Junior Malanda who died recently, and that is why he was so eager to take the penalty?

I agree that regardless he shouldn't go anywhere near the penalty in such an important game, but my attitude toward him has softened slightly if that's correct.

I see us winning maximum of 1 of our next 6 leagues games (Leicester home) which will then take us into mid March very possibly in the bottom 3 and if not, dangerously close. Will it still be too soon?

Whatever he was thinking, Baines acted correctly. Imagine a wrestling match for the ball, with Jags jumping in and Roberto on the sideline dumb-struck? No thanks. Things are bad enough.

So, whatever thoughts were running thru his head, Baines's conduct was proper.

When Moyes took over in March of 2001, we were 15th; we started well and fizzled out to finish 15th. A new manager would be told to steady the ship, shore up the defence and ensure survival.

In MoyesÂ’s first full season of the dour and the dull, we scratched our way to 7th; the following season, we were bottom for ten games and battled our way to 17th. So in many ways History is repeating itself. Moyes inherited a team with the likes of Gazza and Ginola and Unsy and yes quite a few seasoned journeymen to which he would add to.

Fast-forward to 2014-15 and here we go again. Aging pros with further additions of Kone and Barry. A season of the bold and the beautiful. A superb English talent was setting Goodison on fire with a sublime strike against an unbeaten Arsenal comparable to the strike against Man City last season? You couldnÂ’t write this shit, get Sylvester on the phone and his mate Arnie. LetÂ’s see what Spielberg can do with this?

The difference between the two managers is one is still wet behind the ears and the other wore nappies, this being a very useful piece of kit because the prick would shit himself when he took his penknife to a shotgun fight.

Do we give Martinez the time to put it right as we did the predecessor? We can play football under Roberto and – given the right players, fitness, form and a decent run without injuries that take players out for months on end – maybe he can be the man and this is merely a short term period of adjustment we need to endure.

Being a full blown scouse, I do realise football is bigger than much about anything on the planet. Forget about wars in the middle east, Ebola virus, Famine, Pestilence, the global financial meltdown. Suicide Bombers, 9/11, Nukes and Armageddon – thatÂ’s fuck all when my team looks like getting relegated.

Should we give RM time? Wigan gave him time and look what happened to them. Three seasons of dodging relegation then down they went with all hands.

They didn't all go down Frank, a few of them found their way into a lifeboat and were rescued by the good ship Everton.

Naismith was not happy but was pushed into a corner later and rightly stuck by the decision in front of the tv cameras by backing Mirallas. It was Martinez's job to defuse it as manager not Naismith.

On that note maybe just maybe Besic defused the situation by saying he was injured, full marks for Naismith and Besic for not dragging the club down by speaking out.

Had either had said otherwise, this would have esculated among supporters at upcoming games, both players love the club so I for one applaud both players for nipping it in the bud.