Boss remaining positive in the face of poor results

"When results are not going well there is a big fashion to be critical of our football club but PROPER Evertonians are showing their support and are realistic and are understanding that we have played a lot better than the results show."

So Roberto, I think you owe ALL the fans an apology. None of us are happy with what’s gone on this season so don’t try and divide us between those of us that back you and those that don’t.

’Proper Evertonians’ support Everton (not necessarily the management team in post on the grounds that they don’t like what’s happening to their club).

I suspect this may be some sort of preamble to a potential sacking so he can say afterwards - ’the fans made it difficult for me’. The aim being to muddy the waters of the poor preparations, tactics, signings etc in order to keep his career afloat.

Can’t imagine him at another PL club if he screws up here.

I could be well off the mark, like.
Just a reaction.

You are not delivering a level of service to the paying public therefore you deserve every ounce of backlash dished out, just as you no doubt enjoyed the plaudits last season. What a daft statement from a naive man.

"We need to look back at some of the big moments we had at the start of the season and we can’t forget that," Martinez said.

Anyone?

Under present circumstances, that would be akin to throwing gasoline on burning embers. Certainly not helping his cause.

I think we’ve been awful. And to say something ridiculous like he said today about proper Evertonians considering our dismal run of form, that’s a spectacular PR own goal by Bobby.

If he genuinely believes we’ve been playing well this season, he is totally deluded. He is almost totally oblivious to the fact that we’ve only won 1 in 13, which straight off is a sackable offence at any other club, and even more alarmingly, he thinks the solution can come from within, namely Pienaar and Osman who are both past it. He thinks we can soldier on with just 2 main strikers as well. In Bobby land, everything is under control, going phenomenally well, all is hunky dory at Goodison.

I’ve got some news for you Roberto, it isn’t. And you are looking even more of an idiot every day with your constant bullshit and pink fluffy clouds deluded crap.

’Hard done-by recently in terms of results and insisting that he has been disappointed by only one of his side’s performances in the last few weeks.’

Hmm. Intriguing to think what performance this was. Man City?

He’s getting a bit desperate and flustered now. I reckon he knows that the end is near.

Now that you have put it another way, I think you are right.

So, to summarise, he’s alienating both fans and players.

I hope he closes the door on the way out.
It’s freezing out there.

However, here is the quote again:

"We need to look back at some of the big moments we had at the start of the season and we can’t forget that," Martinez said.

It is different, he is bang on, and it’s hard to get my head round what’s going on right now at Everton.

I thought he was the real deal and revered pace and technical players, but we’re slower than we’ve ever been and he’s just signed a limited championship trier until 2019. He’s signing Moyes type players...no pace journeymen, aging tryers with limited technical ability, and many are now liabilities, in every sense of the word.

The fact that he thinks we’ve only played poorly in one game is shocking. We’ve been beyond bad all season, I was even worried when we were 3-0 up against a crap QPR and after conceding one, looked like we could throw it away. Even West Brom had better chances and they weren’t even trying to attack.

We just have to win against Palace, the performance is irrelevant. Pragmatism and fight are needed; that’s why most of us are terrified.

I can handle a bit of media spin and taking the positives is all well and good. But Martinez is coming across as completely deluded at the moment. I’m embarrassed for him.

Moyes went for functional players and never really revered skillful technicians or players with blistering pace. He wasn’t even convinced on Arteta after his loan, and we were lucky to get him if you remember. Naismith and Moyes were a match made in Scottish heaven, so I’m surprised that Martinez sanctioned a 3 year extension for such a limited player.

What on earth were you thinking about Martinez!? These words are fuel and manna for anyone who is less flexible in their opinions of you than you have been in the last few matches about tactics and set-ups.

Martinez has been making one mistake after another on and off the pitch over the last few months and this for me is by some distance his biggest off-pitch howler. The Echo interview is pockmarked with dumb-sounding stuff from start to finish. It reeks of a desperate situations and someone – a fairly decent human being it seems to me – who is in a corner.

He’s grasping at straws as countless others have done when they feel locked in a corner with nowhere to turn. My bunch for what it’s worth is that all this trumpeting of the solution is in the squad is because he has been told that there will not be money this window – Kenwright is probably hedging his bets. Bobby, therefore, has to blow a bugle for the cards he has in his hand.

The words might seem dumb. They might seem fanciful. But if I am half-right then what the fuck do you expect him to say? "We’re awful"? "We’re going down"? "There’s nothing that I can do"?

The use of ’proper’ here ought to raise eyebrows everywhere. I’m still trying to get my head round it because I want to think about it for a time. It’s unadvised. It will insult many. The implication of division is plain silly as if there are shades of Evertonians – though he is not the only one to appear on these boards in very recent memory with something similar to say.

He’s chosen his words quite carefully up to now although his "shiny happy people" face irks me and alienates others. So these words seem to me to be out of plot and character. The product of desperation, it can be credibly said, but not as some silliness will have it an attempt to shift the blame onto the fans shoulders as the sack looms.

He’ll make some sort of a gesture in the way of a corrective and possibly apology. I for one think that this statement is out of character, so I will wait and see as I put myself in the shoes of someone alarmed at recent booing and what must be his own accelerating doubts and fears. The wrong reaction here, to be sure, and the sunny view of our performances this season is pure cloud-cuckoo and avoidance.

There will be a story to be written about this season of whispering and rumour-mongering and one day we will all I’m sure be in a far better position to comment objectively. But none of us are there yet. What we have are a poor run of games, a gaffer who seems to be aware of a need to change things at long last, and a massive month ahead of us.

I for one would love to see Bobby turn this round because he is the Everton manager and his immediate prospects are inextricably bound up with the immediate prospects of the club I love to death. And, yes, it’s conceivable to me that we will be in a comfy place say three months from now with Martinez holding the reins.

But that ’proper’ is still leaving a nasty taste in my mouth...

Idiot, get rid.

SO well said. The "proper" comment left me feeling like I’ve been listening to a weasel. Division where there should be none.

I may disagree with the outlook espoused by the Bennings and the Wallings of this world but...

They are PROPER Evertonians - much, much more so than I to be sure! And to hint at any contrarian view of our beloved gaffer as "unproper" or some such thing just leaves the taste of bile in my mouth.

Right the ship Roberto - and while the chips are down choose your words carefully and don’t dare hint that any dissenters are not "proper" Evertonians.

They’ve been around before you were born.

Shut your mouth and start winning. I know you have it in you.

This one "proper" Evertonian really has my short in a bind.

It’s arrogant in the extreme! Who the hell does he think he is?

Who defines "proper". And the suggestion that anyone not backing the team in the face of real criticism isn’t "proper" just pisses me off.

Arrogant!

I’m behind the man and his long term vision but this definitely shines a different light on the current situation.

Anyone who boos or is critical isn’t "proper"???

If I wasn’t a believer I’d tell him to fuck off! FFS I’ve read some scathing analysis from the BLUEST OF BLUES on here! they aren’t "proper" supporters?

Unreal!

If there’s no money for new signings then we need a couple of lone signings, last year Bobby seemed to pull Rabbits out of hats yet this season he seems deluded in thinking the squad is strong and playing well.

Does this saying mean anything: ’You can’t polish a turd but you can roll it in glitter’?

Crystal Palace v Everton
Everton v Liverpool
Chelsea v Everton
Everton v Leicester
Arsenal v Everton
Stoke v Everton
Everton v Newcastle
QPR v Everton
Everton v Southampton
Swansea v Everton
Everton v Burnley
Everton v Man Utd
Aston Villa v Everton
Everton v Sunderland
West Ham v Everton
Everton v Tottenham

YES!

But it’s good you took the time to give us the fixture list and thanks for that mate and are there 17 points there, absolutely!

Looking forward already to our 51st consecutive season in the top flight.

Big Nev. " If Wigan sell all the pies at half time and get a point out of the game, then everyone goes home happy, it’s different at Everton " It would different with Big Nev at the ground that’s for sure....who ate all the pies?

Can I just say, for the record he’s my all time Everton hero so I say this with no malice, but it did make me laugh to read!

Certainly, when the RS were revolting (aren’t they always) about Hicks and Gillette, the Red Echo got right behind them. Yet there’s never been the faintest whiff of criticism of BK’s carpetbagging antics with us (at least not to my knowledge). They’ve largely peddled the club line, perhaps fearful of being banned again if they don’t.

So they carry this interview with Martinez, complete with the comments likely to inflame passions amongst fans... Prelude to him falling foul of the Goodison Hierarchy? (After the window is shut, natch).

This summer simply confirms his "agree with me or you’re out" mentality. I wouldn’t be surprised to learn in the future that Samuel Eto’o tried to talk to him about the team’s tactics, and pointed out the failings in his system. Leaving or not, there was no logical reason to not even use him as a sub in his last month with the club.

There have been other rumours of player discontent but we’ll never know the truth until the manager has gone. Roberto, after 56 years, I think I’m entitled to have my say without being insulted by the club manager saying I’m not PROPER Evertonian. Cut me, I bleed blue, can’t say the same for you.

Roberto has always chosen his words very carefully. For him to make that comment, at this time, is very puzzling. Maybe he’s trying to make himself a buffer between the fans and the players. It leaves proper Evertonians scratching their heads, and more than a little pissed off.

What a strange season this has been so far.

Good luck at Barcelona one day...... Yeah right like that will ever happen, maybe Barnsley.

He really does come out with some crackers though, we need a ’PROPER’ apology for the rubbish we’ve been served all this season.

I would imagine there are a lot more doubters regarding Martinez’s right to manage OUR Club this morning – and quite rightly.

I wonder if the "Greatest Evertonian" will finally comment on this? Will also be interested to see what Prentice and O’Keefe make of it? Probably say nothing to put their treble gins and freebies in doubt

Fucking idiot!

Yes came through it with dire consequences, This a deluded positive statement to make everyone feel better?

Based on our form over the last year I think we’ll be lucky to get 12.

Both deadmen walking.

These comments were not made by a man with a clear head, same as the waffling interview about the Miralles penalty straight after the WBA game. If things don’t turnaround quickly it going to get to the point were it’s cruel to keep him on.

Does he ever stop talking rubbish.

Oh and a couple of signings please, Bobby!!!!

Unfortunately for him, he has just stepped on a mine, so let us see how he performs surgery on himself at the press conference at 9am.

But when did ’not going down’ determine acceptability for Evertonians – proper or not ?

You can’t just turn level of performance on and off as you choose and I just don’t feel anyone has got to grips with the seriousness of our plight and the lack of time available to get out of it. If RM is sacked after Palace, we’ve missed the window and the new manager is straight into a very nasty run of fixtures.

We can only hope and pray but I am afraid that I don’t share the view that our remaining fixtures are clearly going to yield the points we need, given where we now find ourselves. Far from it.

I’m as critical of the current malaise as anyone, but I struggle to find anything wrong with this statement.

It’s an ill-advised comment judging from the reactions here. However, I do think that those who are already upset with Martinez prior to this would have been scrutinizing his every comment/statement. Thus, everything that fans can throw the chairs at him at, they will.

You can read what you want into it really.

RM I have been a proper supporter for all of those 61 years and because I want you out of our club now now now that does not make me an improper supporter so please don’t insult me or my fellow Evertonians as you close the door behind you.

BK, the total thespian, has obviously isolated himself from RM. Those comments by RM are not aimed at the supporters, the seat fillers. No way, we only watch and see the production unfold and for me RM lost the GP crowd weeks ago and he knows it, he takes abuse for almost the full 90 minutes and he wouldn’t know a proper Evertonian if his life depended on it. No, those comments are aimed at people who are not just supporters of Everton Football club.

The gloves are off, oh fucking yes and it looks like RM is going to go out fighting. Well Roberto, good fucking luck with that because unfortunately thespian BK, with SKY, have set the stage up beautifully; Stevie G’s final derby, a 5:30 kick off, seats going for almost 2 grand, a world wide audience and more Chang being drunk than is advisable.

RM will not know what the fuck has hit him if we lose that game and BK will be able to pull the curtain down and clap RM out of the building.

Sad, sad days at this great club.

It’s been an awful season bar a last minute strike at Anfield but there’s no way we would have gone on such a bad run if we weren’t booed against QPR, whilst winning.I didn’t boo myself, but never had a problem with those that did.

A night game at Goodison is usually something to cherish, but Martinez, has taken away the fun. I know the players are hating playing at Goodison, because they can feel the anxiety in the crowd. Against West Ham, with less fans in the game, the crowd got a lot more behind the team. We played forward more that night though, and although I’m not anxious, I’m very restless.

I think those who want him gone, have jumped right down on this comment, while those who still want him, will understand what he was probably trying to say. One thing is sure though. After comments like this, the day of judgement is getting close, and if we don’t get points from the next two games, this manager will be finished, good and PROPER!!

Again read into it what we want but, if we are still suffering because we threw away 4 points in our first two games, then the manager really does want fucking!

You might have to pick the players up if you lose a semi-final, but not because we drew a couple of games???

All he needs to say is admit that the majority of performances have been unacceptable or something like that. Look at Mourinho. Loses to Bradford, "It’s a disgrace" he says.

What would Martinez have said in that situation? "We showed a phenomenal performance level in the first half to go 2-0 up but the second half didn’t go our way" or some crap to that effect.

That press conference then. That was just utterances of meaningless soundbites like most of his interviews have been. I’m just getting fed up of his rubbish now and genuinely concerned that he is blissfully ignorant of the fact that we are in trouble and that the fans are not happy.

Just show some kind of acknowledgement that it’s not working. Then he’d win some credibility back for a start. His continued spin is just losing him credibility every time he speaks.

He just doesn’t seem genuine in my view.

It’s getting very boring on here. If he doesn’t comment he’s not honest, if he does he should be "sacked for that comment alone". Not one suggestion of who to replace him with I notice (and don’t say Klopp, On what planet would that happen?). With all you lot taking so much to heart he’ll be scared to speak at all soon, oh just like how Ross Barkey is scared to do anything with the ball now because he’s screamed at by the crowd every time he loses it.

We’re going to be our own downfall at this rate. It’s almost like a lot of people on here want to get relegated so that they can say that they predicted it on ToffeeWeb before Martinez was appointed. That will be a great achievement.

I think a lot of us are agitated with the position we are in, and rightly so but I think a lot of us need to calm down a bit.

Splitters

We were crap end of last season, crap pre-season and 95% crap this season, especially the last 13 games. That is a fact underlined by results I can read in any paper.

Whether I am a ’Proper’ fan or not is not the point. The point is we have been crap since April 2014 and this nut-job cant see it. IF we go down, he will leave and the ’Proper’ fans will be left with a Championship side with no identity.

I was not a Moyes fan but we did have an identity, not one I liked, but everyone knew it. What are we now?

I have said it before and will say it again, we are playing our way into the Championship instead of scrapping to stay in this league.

Rant over.

I wish someone would ask him where is this good football we have been playing? Aimlessly passing it sideward and backwards in your own half does not constitute ’good football’.

What’s wrong with crosses, long shots, free kicks and corners Roberto? Every other team seems to celebrate goals from them. Mourinho enjoyed their goal from a crossed free kick to put out the rs this week. Why neglect a massive part of the game? I suspect a new manager will be in charge before we turn any corner and results improve and not before time.

Sorry, Roberto, as much as I like you, that was uncalled for. But at least go get some damn results now.

Sorry mate but in my experience ’people who get attacked, attack back’ and isn’t that what Martinez appears to have done – hit back – shows he is not afraid of confrontation.

I do not condone his "proper’ remark – perhaps he was in a ’moment’ of anger and retaliation – let’s just hope that manifests itself on the pitch for the remainder of his tenancy.

I do think his remark made him look a proper Charlie, though.

Dave @ 84. Never seen Life of Brian? You should, brilliant film.

Proper Evertonians!! Firstly the reason I am giving him shit is that fact he cannot see the our football is slow and predictable, we defend like Under-10s and we couldn’t score in a brothel even with £1000 stapled to our foreheads. I can not remember the last time we scored from a corner or an IDK let alone defended one properly Oh! yes I do Mr Martinez – under David Moyes!!!

I was never Mr Moyes Biggest fan and yes he did the shortest most uninspiring press conferences known to man but when we was playing shit and getting beat he would hold his hand up and say this is not good enough.

You Sir have no right to call any Evertonian ’proper’ as we will still be here when you pick up your P45.

However, even if he did mean the media, they’re still fucking right to criticise you as you have been rubbish! Grow a pair, toughen up, you are supposed to be manager of Everton FC for christ’s sake!!! Just more unprofessional, classless rubbish from Mr Moment.

And then we had the pre-season piss-take. Most of which was highlighted on here well before it became toxic.

This is not a comment about media criticism because Savage et al are not Evertonians. It is an attempt to get fans to cheer mediocrity because they shouldn’t upset the fragile egos of our stars.

At what point does realism set in? The team has the worst current form in the league. Is there an Evertonian around who believes we have only had one bad game and if Roberto really believes his own statements then the only person not in the real world is Roberto!

This bullshit is aggravating fans and increasing their criticism of his management. He has to accept we are playing badly; more importantly, he has to change the way we are playing and get some results. Then we might at least tolerate his phenomenal utterances.... then again!

Players and managers alike are contracturally obliged to front up before the media. Otherwise, I’m sure they would never or rarely front up.

For confirmation of this, see the very funny recent Seattle Seahawks player pressie when he replied 29 times to every question: "I’m just here so I won’t get fined."

I enjoyed Moyes’s gruff sometimes disdainful attitude to the press. I accept RM’s constant positivism. It’s the nature of the two beasts.

Now obviously many put great stock in every utterance from the manager, as this thread and a broader ’furore’ over the ’proper Evertonian’ comment demonstrates.

But if you take the time to read the whole article, the headline says: Everton boss Roberto Martinez: "We are determined to repay faith of the fans." Nothing wrong with that, surely?

The first paragragh reads: "Roberto Martinez wants to repay the faith of the Everton FC fans who have stuck by the team despite their torrid run of form." Again, nothing wrong with that. But of course the focus falls only on the ’proper Evertonians’ comment.

Not the wisest of words to have fallen from Señor Martinez’s lips in his time with us, but personally, I’m not inclined towards outraged indignation, faux or real, in relation to them.

No. What concerns me more in his comments was this: "the performances have been better than the results have shown." This is lost in the uproar surrounding the ’proper Evertonian’ comment. For me personally, if RM truly believes this, then it is far more disconcerting than his others comments.

I’m surprised more Evertonians – ’proper’ or otherwise – don’t concern themselves more with that observation on our performances and results which surely should be of greater concern right now.

The point is, if he is offended/upset/whatever then he should understand that the paying fucking public (i.e. the mob) don’t want this shite "brand" of football, don’t want excuses, don’t want players playing for the sake of it, and do want a manager/players that give a shit, face up to the problems, accept that things need to change and GET FUCKING ON WITH IT.

It also happened at the start of the year when BK gave him his targets for the year. Champions League, Chamionship are very similar when you think about it. So as far as Martinez is concerned he is bang on target.

Unfortunately we have a manager who has decided to change tactics and adopt a game plan that doesn’t suit the team or the fans. It’s in his hands to change it over the next couple of games and if he can’t then it’s up to the board to remove him and put someone there who can. It’s all about survival now; we’ve dropped back 10 years in half a season.

What a massive disappointment after last season.

1. I cannot recall Martinez criticizing performances in his tenure, with a few exceptions. It may not be myopia, more a habit of finding something positive in every game (except, it appears, the Hull game). This of course is a subjective approach as it is based on perception but it does imply consistency in his opinions on performances.

2. I read the "proper Evertonians" as a misguided mis-communicated call to arms, asking the supporters to rally around the team in home games. PR seems to be a problem as there is a growing sense of irritation at the utterances of the bloke summarized by Paul Ferry, but ultimately I do not believe he was implying anything untoward on those fans who have been booing.

Then again this is a completely subjective take on his comment.

Spot on. The results have been a fair reflection of the performances. The fact that RM doesn’t acknowledge that is worrying.

I only care about drastic improvement, immediately. That’s all that matters.

The way I look at it is, if the fans don’t vent their frustration at the team to try and force change (be it playing style or personnel), then we just sink into the abyss. There is no leadership at the club from top to bottom. What I don’t understand is why none of his backroom staff seem to have a go and all seem yes-men to me. Surely Duncan Ferguson should be up and demanding more from this set of players?

As someone said before, we as proper or improper fans, have all got a right to our point of view and will all be here long before and after he has gone. The day I sit there and just say nothing and not care what happens to my club will be the day I give up my season ticket and watch in the pub like the other shower. Bobby needs to remember the saying, "Don’t bite the hand that feeds you."

Listen here, Mr Martinez, I’ve been in and out of Goodison for over 50 years and I’ve never met an improper Evertonian. I’ve seen some bullshitters in my time but you are top of the pile. You should be grateful to all Evertonians for turning up to watch the shite you profess.

You should apologise to ALL OFFENDED EVERTONIANS. Either that or fuck off – we don’t need divisive twats at OUR CLUB, especially at times like these.

This guy has been living in the UK for years, there can be no doubt whatsoever that he knew exactly what he was saying and in the context he was saying it. The man should do the proper thing and walk and leave the proper Evertonians to support the Club in the way we’ve always done.

If they deserve it then they’re the best players in the world, if they shirk and play crap then they get it tight. Every Club is the same, and every Club has done the same since footy began. The man is a clown.

And by the way, Brian Labone would never have said "one proper Evertonian is worth 20 Liverpudlians"!

Apart from the "proper Evertonians" bit, he also says,
"The Christmas period was very tough but we have come through that now" – am I missing something here, what have we exactly come through, when did we last win a game?

"Big moments we had at the start of the season" – I can’t recall many "big moments" except for a few good results in Europa league".

"We have played a lot better than the results show", oh okay all is forgiven, I must have been mistaken, the team I have been watching got exactly the results they deserved.

This guy has lost the plot.

At least we have only two more games to suffer before BK will be obliged to act decisively. If he doesn’t it probably means we’ve won them both!

It’s one who has put up with long periods of trophieless years bought about by gross mismanagement of the club and compounded by certain managers who appear clueless when it comes to winning important football matches when it matters (see Moyes and then look in the mirror).

It’s one that turns up on a regular basis despite the above and pays a fortune each season to witness the above.

It’s one that can see and recognise decent football when he sees it and even in defeat can be diplomatic and forgiving as long as the team have had a go and put a shift in.

It’s also one that can see through masquerading bullshitters like yourself and your luvvy chairman.

Wanker!

If you get up and have a go, a lot by me seem to be looking for a steward, so I just carry on being myself, but sometimes I think I have forgot my library books.

As other people have pointed out, the results and performances since the tail end of last season would have resulted in the sacking of Martinez. Billy Boy surely must be squirming in his theatre chair every time Bobby opens his mouth.

I still think the players have a responsibility to ensure that they as individuals need to step up to the mark. Only Naismith gives 100% – the rest look like they’re sulking because they cant or don’t want to play Bobby’s deluded game plan.

Pardew will be relishing Saturday. Another fuckwit of a manager, who escaped the wrath of the Toon army. According to our Bobby, we are the Doom and Gloom army.

Last season, we enjoyed his positive comments; now, we compare him to a politician for his empty words.

Mike #70 makes some interesting points. Well, BK is certainly not preventing this crisis turning into a drama (I see a stage play coming). Also, If Roberto is going out fighting, can he transfer that attitude to the pitch please

Last time I checked I am Spartacus – I won’t wear anything red, maybe makes me ’Proper Blue’.

COYB

Whatever Martinez says should be attributed to BK. Martinez, as I keep saying, is PR first, Management second.

Or is it that Martinez does not take to kindly to criticism and some booing after one of his team’s poor performances? Well tough. That’s part and parcel of football. Although I don’t agree with signalling out Barkley, Martinez and his tactics (which are non-existent) do deserve to be critised. And sometimes all supporters can do to show discontentment is the old tried and tested booing. Sorry, Mr Martinez ,if that goes against your philosophy.

And by the way, Martinez didn’t hang about Wigan long enough to hear the booing, once he got them relegated, did he?

Martinez could potentially have just 48 hours left as our manager. Not much point debating things anymore until the palace result’s in.

Meanwhile our manager is explaining to all us how dangerous Palace are and they are in a "good moment"
As if we need telling!

So Martinez reckons that Everton have only been poor once in recent months. Nonsense. Did he think that we played well against Stoke, Southampton, Newcastle and he couldn’t even outsmart Big Sam after two attempts.

I was even disappointed at the defeat from that piss poor Russian team. IMO Martinez missed a trick that night, Stuff Krasnodar and build momentum. Not waffle about the youngsters gaining experience. Never to be played since. And what experience comes from losing. I like everyone else on here could pick faults in almost every game played this season (even the games we won or drew). Very worrying that our manager does not exactly see the game the way the rest of us do.

And also as stated numerous times, were is his Plan B, or even a Plan C. He doesn’t have any, he never did have any. I just hope that the players have something about them to play their way to safety. Cause I reckon it will be their doing if Everton survive this season, and not anything to do with anything Martinez does. So he should be redundant in the summer. Then get a manager in who will make a meaningful difference. After last season I thought that we would really push on, but Martinez had other ideas. Of course he doesn’t want Everton to lose, but he now seems incapable of leading them to actually win football matches.

When all said and done, this is one proper Evertonian (or maybe improper) supporter who wants this great club to go on a run of wins in the next couple of months, with or without Martinez. But I would still want change in the summer. I don’t think Martinez can change, and Everton (at present) don’t have the players to play his brand of football.

Coleman to Jags. Jags to Duffy. Duffy to Baines. Baines looks around and plays a square ball to Jags. Jags passes out to Barkley. Barkley to Barry. Barry slips. Baines nips in and passes back to Jags. Jags squares to Duffy. Duffy to Coleman. Coleman passes back to Howard. Howard slips but manages to pas out to Baines. And so on and on we go in the twilight zone. And Martinez applauds the wonderful possession football. (You think I’m joking... I only wish I was.)

Survive this season, regroup, get in a new manager, offload the walking wounded, target the areas that need strengthening, Meaningfully bring some of our better youngsters through, Build momentum in the summer with meaningful friendly. And hit the ground running next season. For now the Europa League is not important, just take it as it comes. But take no chances with our Sunday games, they get priority. Time now for a "proper" drink. And here’s hoping that we soon have a "proper board and manager". And also the return of some "proper" football at Everton. Rant over.

In my business life I have been used to working with people that "make it happen" rather than dreamers.

I am afraid I have come to the conclusion that this manager is a total fantasist.

I believe he has made the comment about "proper" Evertonians and comradery to make his case to bungling Bill that it is the "unproper" supporters who are causing the team to not perform well similar to Bill trying to isolate Blue union and rally support..

He seems to forget that most "proper" supporters saw through the shambolic pre season preparations and ridiculous team selections and tactics all season to the extent that his inadequacies as a manager have been well and truly exposed.

Certainly understandable why some would take that "proper" qualification in the wrong vein. Stupid choice of words no doubt and one I am sure he regrets (along with a few others he’s made in the past).

For me, without a doubt the more alarming and contentious statement was in relation to his belief (and I presume it’s honest) that recent results are not reflective of better performances. That actually made my eye twitch.

Perhaps it was better to be ignored than categorised – it certainly never bothered us in during his glory days!

Now if Martinez could only have seen that for the most part that his tippy tappy nonsense was not working, and if he only had the good sense and vision to come up with a Plan B, then maybe we would all become "proper" Evertonians, and applaud the team. I would. No problem there, cause I know good football when I see it, (as we all do). But does Martinez want everyone to applaud proper shite. And never criticise? The man's a fool. And a dangerous fool at that.

As for the Everton board, they just can’t compete with the real powerhouses. But that’s another topic. COYBS.

First, if, and only if, the "proper" is really meant as people have interpreted here (and I don’t buy lost in translation), then the mask of this journeyman, mercenary, snake-oil salesman has slipped and you can see the attempt to divide fans. Maybe these same, snide tactics have been used in the dressing room, which explains a lot of things;

Second, the biggest thing for me in this article seems to have been missed, and that is the reference to "stubborn mentality". People seem to have assumed that means he will change to dig out results, but what if he meant that he was even more wedded to his non-existent system? That would be more in character for my money. No, Roberto, your stubborn mentality is what got us into this mess in the first place; flexibility, adaptation and bags of grit is what will get us out.

Lastly,

Oliver 129

That would be the same Jordan Mutch of the cynical thug tackle that put Mirallas out. Hopefully there are some aftershocks to be had there. If only Reidy was still playing, on any number of levels...

Been fun reading the reactions, though.

If you don't like him, you'll scrutinise everything he says/doesn't say to 'prove' you're right.

Back in the real world, some of us are patiently waiting for a bit of life on the pitch. That's what will determine his future, rather than a desparate effort to over analyse and distort his daily soundbites.

By the way Phil, Bet 365 offered me 4/11 for a bet on us to stay up. Tells you all you need to know.......

As a supporter for 50 years, I would just like to say to you Señor Martinez... just fuck off and take all of your shite backroom Wigan staff with you. You aren't good enough for this club, never have been and never will be.

All shaping up nicely (not) for the derby match then. A pissed off Goodison crowd turning on Martinez.

In order to avoid misunderstandings like this in future, perhaps the Club will consider taking you on to explain the real meaning behind the manager's outpourings as they are so often misconstrued.

Expect to be quite busy because 'us impropers' are thick buggers, you see!

How much did you put on? ... you did lump on, didn't you?

Dave Lynch

Nail... head.

Journeyman because when he gets sacked from EFC (as he will) he will no longer get coveted jobs and will be scrabbling round anyone desperate enough to take a chance (in my opinion).

Mercenary is a direct reference to the fact that he could not wait to jump ship from Wigan after getting them relegated, which, as I've said before, was a dishonourable act, and to not even offer to help recover showed a lack of moral compass. Equally, you could read into that his diminishing remarks about "proper" Evertonians, questioning their commitment, presumably as compared to his? The difference of course is that we all pump money into the club, whereas he only takes it out. We'll be here long after he has gone.

Mostly though, if you think I'm being insulting and that's a bit of a change, you'd be dead right, because I'm just fed up seeing his face spouting unintelligible shite all of the time.

"Performances better than the results?" Is he serious? Are you serious in apparently defending him? There's the real insult to all of us expecting that crap to be swallowed. He is an embarrassment to the club on and off the field. Get shut now.

That means if you have £100 at 25/1 you will lose £100.

Some La Liga team will take him. Probably someone like Celta or Espanyol. Then if he does well there he'll probably get the likes of Sevilla or Valencia after him.

He's made a right fuck up in how he's put it but I think you're right, he's defending the club and the players against the media, and probably trying the inspire a bit of a siege mentality from us.

I went on Boxing Day and booed them off – they were absolute SHITE and, though his statements backfired, I think I know what he was trying to say.

Unless he was calling thousands of us a bunch of so-and-sos, in which case he can fuck off! :D

Roll on, Saturday, Roberto, do your talking at 3pm.

For me this is his Mike Walker moment (when that twat said he enjoyed a game where the RS beat us).

It feels as contemptible as the way Newcastle treat their fans.

Sorry but fuck him, he has no clue what real Evertonian is or what a good performance is...

I will as ever be behind the team on Saturday, COYBLUES

Giving this guy the benefit of the doubt, I'd hope he meant the pundits in the media, but weren't these guys the same ones who fawned over him last year? It's called taking the rough with the smooth.

Now if, he meant the fans who booed at the players, performances and results, well we head towards the Goodison Derby after a difficult game first at Palace, I hate Pardew, words cannot describe that, he bristles with us, remember his "we've gave them a footballing lesson" after his West Ham team beat us 2-1 at Goodison? He'll be relishing this. Then Liverpool and Chelsea after that. Doesn't get any easier eh?

As for the Derby, if we don't win at Palace, Roberto is still here for the Derby, an evening Saturday game under the lights, Liverpool in frightening form (they're going to give someone a good beating soon, they're back to how they were in the second half of last season, i'm worried for this one), if it gets off to a bad start, Roberto, you're going to find out what the Everton fans think of that. Never turn on your own fans. Not many survive after doing that.

Looks to me like we're coming to an ending, a parting, wonder what Bill thinks of that comment, if he saw it early on surely a phone call to Roberto to get him to clear it up quickly? Even Bill could see how we would react to that or is it making it easier for him to pull the trigger?

Concerning times just got more concerning...

Where I do digress with you is this pompous statement about him being 'dishonourable' for leaving Wigan. Now I know you don't mean this. I mean who in their right mind would stay in a job with no future when a better one is offered? Dislike him all you want but anyone in a similar position would've done the same.

Please start getting a few wins so we can start debating players, formations etc

When will this nightmare end? At least under Walker, Kendall markIII we knew we were crap!

You speak for yourself mate. That's not me being pompous, I would feel some responsibility. At the very least the financially secure Martinez could have kept quiet and indicated some form of moral support having relegated Wigan.

"I'm off" was virtually his first comment so no-one was in any doubt. No hand wringing or moral dilemma from Roberto. Clearly we'll never agree on this one

Martinez knew that every season would be a struggle to keep Wigan up, every season he would have to sell his best players, every day he would have to listen to Whelan's broken leg stories etc... In his case it was a no-brainer to come to Everton FC.

Surely, when you have enough to live comfortably, doing the right thing might enter your mind. He is a particularly poor hired hand at our club and I am not offended by his comments because he will be gone and forgotten.

I think he's a decent man who has slightly been found out! As I said previously, it's only results that can save him now and that will mean learning quickly from his mistakes and adapting his style. I for one hope he can do it but for the first time I'm not holding me breathe!

I wouldn't have predicted this in August!

Wigan in a few years will be back in the northern conference!!! Whelan knows once he's gone that club is doomed, It will be another Gretna, look where they are now. Criticise him, hate him, berate him by all means but this just smacks of pettiness.

These words sound like a desperate man living on borrowed time. Sorry, Roberto but there's not many Evertonians behind you now this season. You've served up the biggest pile of shite I've had the misfortune to witness since that clown came down from Carrow Road. There's not one performance this season where I've walked out of Goodison and said that was brilliant. Even when we beat villa 3-0, that was turgid. Ditto QPR – appalling football, appalling tactics, appalling lack of nous, appalling lack of substitutions. I could go on.

I've never wanted an Everton manager sacked because I've always felt given time he could turn it round and that after witnessing Walker's sides, Kendall MKIII – admittedly had his hands tied financially, but you haven't. You've been allowed to spend and spend big, Lukaku and McCarthy to name but two. And most of your signings have been shite:... Alcaraz, Kone, McGeady, Robles spring to mind.

I said earlier in the season you've desperately tried to turn us into Wigan but now you've succeeded, minus the relegation but that's only round the corner isn't it? I, like every other Evertonian, hope we wallop Palace on Saturday but do you know what? I know deep in my heart it won't happen. Even when we go a goal up I still fear the worst. I never felt like that under miserable arse because his sides knew how to defend. Yours don't.

The only thing I will defend you on is I hope the fans don't turn on you at the derby. Because nothing would give them gloating red twats more pleasure than to be singing relegation songs all fucking game. That's not out of any great respect to you just because I'd like to see them silly fuckers quiet for once. Then again, it's been 5 years since we beat them so I'm not holding my breath on that one.

Having said all that I still think if we lose the next 3 – and that's feasible – I still don't think Kenwright will sack you. No it'll be March like it was for Smith. Only unlike then I fear it'll be too late. Dark days indeed, these. Dark days.

The key difference though and the crux of my point is Martinez left Wigan in the shit, you couldn't say that about Moyes and Everton, though we are now.

They were always going to be relegated at some point!!

He left with the blessing of them all. So to say he somehow acted dishonestly, or dishonourably, is simply ridiculous. If this is the case then anyone of us who have left a previous employer for an improved offer are all dishonourable.

Sorry, like I said we'll never agree.

Your analogy doesn't hold water though. He's not the average guy scraping a living on the production line of the biscuit factory, he's the CEO who ran it into the ground through mismanagement. Very different scenario.

As for leaving with the blessing of the players, well, he didn't leave much room for any doubt did he, given his indecent haste in announcing he was off. That was the shocking thing.

Also, if they are anything like us now, they probably couldn't wait to see the back of the useless twat quick enough!

:-)

This manager is the one that has been too "stubborn" to admit he has made mistakes and change the style to get results.

As a supporter for over 50 years the only thing I now is I am an Evertonian and as such have been called a lot worse than 'improper' or 'proper'.

Darren, it is buying money, unfortunately they wouldn't let me lump on. I pointed them towards ToffeeWeb for guidance, but they only let me have a smallish bet.

Funny that. The bookies look at things rationally and only let me have a small bet at 4/11. Those with an irrational personal dislike of Martinez urge us to lump on relegation at 25/1. Hmmmm.

I appreciate that this is probably the sad view of a fan but I would bet that you and most on this site would run out to Z-Cars for what we earn now. I do not begrudge young working class lads earning a fortune, not at all. However, when you have all you need, then what is important?

For example, if I were Mirallas, a League Cup win with Everton would count for more than a bought medal on the bench at Man City. A 20% pay increase for me would be life changing so I believe that a stage is reached when asking a supporter if they would not do the same as a player or coach is nonsensical.

When trying to understand Colin's argument, we need to look at two things.

1: Sadly, in this day and age it is possible to operate in football without loyalty, looking only at the 'what's in it for me' angle. Sadly, younger fans who haven't been around the block can't see that selfish behaviour for what is. For example, it can be easily argued that Rooney 'left with the Clubs blessing', but we all know it was a lot darker than that.

2: There is another characteristic of the young fan to take into account; supporting the manager over the team. We see it most with Mourinho, were people actively support him, moving team loyalty as he moves clubs.

In conclusion, when acceptance of 'zero responsibility' management is blended with manager-supporting fans, I think you get the view Colin espouses. To paraphrase, it appears a sort of 'he's alright Jack' view.

I think I speak for most when I say that Andy, there is nothing wrong with what you say, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

God only knows what the players say about him listening to him on a day to day basis. Like every blue I really want Martinez to be a success but for me the best managers have a charisma about them were as when they speak you listen and what they say you believe. The vibe he gives off is that he is a bullshitter, loves the theory and the talk but lacks the fire and steel to gain the respect of the squad and produce the goods.

If you watch and listen to Pep Guardiola he has ultimate belief in his style and system but demands hard work and high standards on and off the ball, he says it how he sees it and isn't trying to be everyone's buddy. I fear the players have heard enough Bobby's bollox and therefore lost belief and respect for the man who is supposed to be the leader of our club!

He left them having won the FA Cup, against one of the most expensively assembled, and best teams in the Prem. I want to see him go, but don't hate him, and don't think he is a crook.

I earn a respectable wage - some wouldn't get out of bed for it, others would crawl over broken glass for it. Neither make me do the job any better or worse or love the firm I work for any more - I just get up, do my job as best I can, have good days, bad days, good weeks, bad weeks and so on.

If I was paid £50k a week would I run through brick walls for my firm? In the short term, yes, but then I'd return to humanity and settle in at the standard that my peers and boss expected of me, and enough to keep me doing what I enjoyed doing.

Footballers are just like everyone else, some are truly exceptional but not all of them can be a Dean, Ball, Labone or Southall, even though they are working at the highest level, and amongst them there is also plenty of loyalty (Hibbert, Osman for example) and I believe genuinely have a great deal of respect for the club, just like you or I would for the firms we work for.

It's unfair to ask them to act like Saints just because their footballers, they are no different to anybody else - average human beings who just happen to be at the very highest percentile for twatting a bit of leather around a field.

Tragic, really. He had it, he blew it.

And 'proper Evertonians'? Please get rid of this joker ASAP. I Can only imagine what the players think of him.

Should be a deadman walking, and hopefully after we lose on Saturday he is gone. Because make no mistake, we will lose.

Speaking of loyalty/integrity perhaps we should give him some after a very good season last year?! (Although of course I accept his time is limited if this run continues!)

Kopites at the time told me he wasn't offered the job. Their word gets doses of salt, as always. But to be fair, I always thought his comments about the Liverpool job were ambiguous, i.e. 'I stayed because my chairman is unique'. That ambiguity led me at the time To conclud that he had been knocked back by the kopites and was covering it. That squares with the facts; I mean, little Martinez says no to five times euro champs Liverpool...no way! Now, lets add a little more about what we now about him - he is an historic BS merchant.

So, in conclusion, I don't think he was loyal, because he wasn't offered the Liverpool job. Instead, El BS Merchant went to Miami, got found out by the yanks, came home and span a yarn. Had he REALLY been offered the job, I think he'd have been out like a rat off a sinking ship.

As for the 'left with blessings' argument, so did Rooney...and we all know that was a bit more complex than that.

No, sorry. I can see where you're coming from, but it all relies too much on a BS merchants word about a job he probably was not offered.

Have we? What results have suggested this amazing statement. I'll eat humble pie if we thump Palace – but I'd love to see what platitudes you have up your sleeve should be scrape a miserable draw or lose. I'm seriously annoyed by this guy. I'm actually thinking of Walker and Smith in a more positive light – it's that bad!

Then again, it was in the Echo so whether it is entirely believable is another issue.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/Everton-fc-continue-pursuit-creative-8543731

So was it just more bullshit as in June 2009 he took the Wigan job at £1.5 million a year and took 4 of his backroom staff with him.

This move because of his previous comments of "he would not leave unless he was forced out" resulted in some of the Swansea's supporters calling him "El Judas".

The only thing that I am seeing is that he has not changed, and he is just a very ambitious person, and is not a manager that can cope with adversity.

The person to blame for the situation we are in is BK who imo, did not do a thorough background check on his managerial qualifications,and hired him through word of mouth from "supposed friends".

"This was a fantastic opportunity to achieve our aim, but we made bad decisions in the second half that affected our confidence defensively. "But we are looking forward to the Cup final and the chance to inject some real momentum into our last two league games. Who knows how many points we need, but what I do know is that this club never throws the towel in. We will be ready and refreshed for the challenge ahead.

"You have to be strong defensively at moments like this but we were punished at the back because of the way injuries have disrupted our defence."

Eerily similar quotes from Roberto during Wigan's last season in the EPL. Scary part of the DM article was the pictures which showed Robles and Kone who are now here.