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Martinez: Derby was an 'interesting' game

07/02/2015  Comments (101)  jump

Roberto Martinez was pleased by his charges' strong finish to today's derby, a match he described as interesting despite its goalless conclusion.

Everton and Liverpool largely cancelled each other out in the 224th meeting between the two clubs, with Jordan Ibe's first-half shot that thumped off the post and Simon Mignolet's late save to deny Seamus Coleman rare highlights on a frigid evening at Goodison Park.

Martinez was encouraged, though, as his side ground out another point and added a clean sheet to their gradual recovery from a horrendous Festive period.

"I thought it was a really interesting game," the Blues' boss said. "We finished the game strong which is always a good sign and I thought our performance throughout the game had a real good intensity.

Defensively I thought the two teams worked really well and it became a fascinating game tactically.

Martinez referred in particular to the two teams' opposing formations, with Liverpool starting with a back three while Everton deployed three defensive midfielders to accommodate James McCarthy's return to the line-up after five weeks on the sidelines.

There were two asymmetric shapes which was obviously going to allow some space and one-v-one situations," Martinez continued, "but there weren't many chances.

It was typical of a Merseyside derby and from our point of view a very important clean sheet to allow us to get more confident on the ball and get a bit more arrogance into our play.

Quotes sourced from Liverpool Echo

Reader Comments (101)

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Chad Schofield
1 Posted 08/02/2015 at 05:48:40
Now this really is stretching the truth. "Really interesting game"?! I’d hate to see what Roberto thinks of as a really dull game.
Jim Bennings
3 Posted 08/02/2015 at 07:16:50
Decent result but IÂ’m afraid the notion that Roberto Martinez is an attacking manager can finally be put to bed this season.

The man is equally if not more negative than David Moyes, our football is no different, infact, our football has not even got the substance that it had under Moyes.

People, including myself, slated the aimless long ballÂ’s played under Moyes but this "possession at snailÂ’s pace, with no penetration" that Martinez has subjected us too is by far more mind numbing.

This is Martinez.

This season is Roberto Martinez making his mark and this is clearly the only game plan the man has. Last season was clearly part Martinez, and part Moyes because the fitness was still there throughout the first half of last season, partly due to how hard Moyes worked them.

Martinez has stamped his mark on the team completely since last summer and the absolutely horrendous pre-season we had, fitness was clearly not taken a blind bit of notice of, this team has no endurance apart from James McCarthy and maybe Besic.

Martinez has neglected too many aspects of what made Everton fairly decent to good over the last few years. He has been totally ignorant of the fitness, the neglect to work on set-pieces, the, no substance to our attack, pedestrian boring bland football.

It's not even worth me trying to contrast our non-display yesterday compared to Spurs high intensity "chase and press everything that moves" performance against Arsenal earlier in the day because one is a club that knows what it means to win a derby and entertain its fans, the other plays football that numbs the mind.

We have now failed to score in 7 matches since the beginning of December. The only consolation I can take is a few clean sheets and a point off "them" home and away but in terms of entertainment value??

They should be paying us to watch this rabble.

Giacomo Trifoglio
5 Posted 08/02/2015 at 08:19:13
Sunday Times journalist Jonathan Northcroft was unconvinced (external) by Everton manager Roberto Martinez's attempts to talk up Saturday's goalless Merseyside derby: "Roberto said something about 'asymmetric shapes' that drew sage nods from around the press room but nobody understood."

Sam Hoare
6 Posted 08/02/2015 at 08:18:34
Good post Jim. There remain many concerns. Fitness. Intensity. Tactics. The wisdom of spending twice our transfer record on a player with highly questionable touch. We have some good young players but apart from that there is little to cheer.
Michael Polley
7 Posted 08/02/2015 at 08:38:46
Our energy levels dropped in the 2nd half. Once again, questions have to be asked about our fitness training or lack of it!

We played better when Barkley came on, but Lukaku was ineffective being stuck out wide. Play our players in their right positions, FFS!!
I'll take a point, but would've preferred 3. At least another clean sheet.

Jim Bennings
8 Posted 08/02/2015 at 08:46:09
The most alarming thing about the fitness is that despite Liverpool having played a hard game Wednesday plus a extra time the previous week at Chelsea, we had plated one game in two weeks yet looked nowhere near the level they were at in terms of fitness.

It's no wonder that I read the stat from the Opta Index stating Everton are at the bottom of the chart when it comes to running, tackling, pressing and blocking. Even yesterday, despite it being a derby, there was little tempo to our play, pressing, carrying etc.

This is, as I state, the Martinez way and you are stuck with it. Slow pedestrian build up with not one ounce of central midfield creativity. A midfield that includes two of Besic, Barry and McCarthy is going to do nothing but stifle our creativity.
I do like Besic and McCarthy but let's be honest, they can only offer protection, they are not the answer towards improving us going forward and as for Naismith back on the right?

David Flanagan
9 Posted 08/02/2015 at 08:55:07
That derby was about as interesting as listening to our manager's endless hyperbole. He is a dull boring person and that's the way we play.

I don't enjoy watching us play and he seems to be sucking the life out of the club. I'm amazed anyone buys into anything he says and his tactics and subs (or lack of them) are bizarre.

Darryl Ritchie
10 Posted 08/02/2015 at 08:52:36

3-4-3 vs 3-4-3; symmetrical.
3-4-3 vs 4-2-3-1; asymmetrical.
Colin Glassar
11 Posted 08/02/2015 at 09:07:58
Despite the concerns about our fitness levels, we did finish the stronger of the two.

The game was boring because both managers cancelled each other out. Another clean sheet and the rise of Stones, Besic and Barkley continues. Oh, and now unbeaten in five.

Helen Mallon
12 Posted 08/02/2015 at 09:25:28
Jim Benning, Sam Hoare, Giacomo Trifoglio – please tell me who you want in charge who would have done any better?

Since we heard that McCarthy was fit, TW was awash with who to drop. Well, he played all three and it paid off.

Barkley has been poor so he left him on bench still you moan. We could not buy a clean sheet loosing all four over Xmas; now we have three.

What do you lot want? That’s another point we have, it’s plain to see that some people just don’t get football. It’s about results and getting those results playing boring football is just as pleasing as winning by ten when you are in a rut as we have been.

Giacomo Trifoglio
13 Posted 08/02/2015 at 10:01:09
@Darryl ah .... understood, thanks.

Rob Halligan
14 Posted 08/02/2015 at 10:15:24
Can't please everyone, Colin.
Kieran Riding
15 Posted 08/02/2015 at 10:21:21
If we were finishing the game strongly, why did you bring on a centre-half for a midfielder and not a striker to actually go for the win?

And it wasnÂ’t an interesting game, it was 0-0 with very few chances.

Colin Glassar
16 Posted 08/02/2015 at 10:24:35
Good point, Kieran, but he always drags Mo Besic off, especially when he gets a yellow. And didn’t Stonesy push up further after Alcaraz came on? Still, it was a strange substitution.
Phil Walling
17 Posted 08/02/2015 at 10:29:15
Excellent summary, Jim Benning. This is the real Martinez and the transformation to his former club's formation and style is near to completion.

As a book written in PRAISE of his past 'achievements' states 'His team had the lowest number of goals scored from inside the penalty area of any side in the league - just 28, compared to Manu's 69. Whilst this sounds defensive - hitting teams on the break, (to score from distance) Wigan's formations told a more nuanced story....for whilst Premier League teams played 34% of games with a traditional 4-4-2 formation, Wigan didn't do this in a single match. Their most common formation was a 4-3-3 system - usually thought to represent a more offensive tactical approach.'

So now we have it Wigerton has arrived. We can only hope the long term fate will be different.

Rob Halligan
18 Posted 08/02/2015 at 10:52:46
I actually thought Besic might have been one challenge from a sending off. He was the only one who was showing a bit of aggression towards the end. The fact that they threw lambert on may have been the reason for Alcaraz coming on?
Kieran Riding
19 Posted 08/02/2015 at 10:56:59
Rob, Besic is always one Challange from a sending off though ! ThatÂ’s his game.

Just read a stat that Stones and Jags have played 90 mins together 11 times this season and weÂ’ve lost none of them.

Anthony Jones
20 Posted 08/02/2015 at 10:53:02
The Martinez style doesn't fit the Everton budget. The man is clearly in denial. He sets us up to retain the ball ("control the game"), and for the dribblers to beat their markers and drive forward. The movement and passing is not quick enough, and our dribblers are average.

The template for Everton should be our best games from last season. Full backs getting forward, Lukaku being played in earlier; energetic and direct play mixed in with periods of slowing the game down. This has been the most disappointing season I can remember.

Phil Sammon
21 Posted 08/02/2015 at 11:05:08
How many red cards has Besic got for us? None. Stop this nonsense about him being a liability.
Rob Halligan
22 Posted 08/02/2015 at 11:01:31
Don't get me wrong, Kieran, I didn't want Besic taken off. For me he has been our best player the past couple of months but, with only 5 minutes left, it's a Catch-22: do you attack and try for a winner or keep what you've got?

With hindsight, Lambert did absolutely nothing and Sturridge did sweet FA for the 35 minutes he was on. But hey, everyone was saying they would take a point before the game.

We got a point and now a few are moaning because we didn't take a chance towards the end. We take a chance and get caught on the break, which is how the RS play, and lose the game.

At the moment we need points, and for me this is a point gained.

Jamie Barlow
23 Posted 08/02/2015 at 11:10:37
Absolutely Phil. It is nonsense. I can't remember a game where he looked close to a sending off. This lad is going to be a star for us.
Rob Halligan
24 Posted 08/02/2015 at 11:14:17
I agree Phil. However, derby games are different due to the high intensity and our derby is renown for sendings-off. To be fair, though, I thought the referee did okay. I was saying before hand he was too weak for this game, and he does have a record for silly sendings-off. Remember Darren Gibson and Carlton Cole at West Ham?
Brian Harrison
25 Posted 08/02/2015 at 11:05:41
First, the positive aspect: we got a point at home, which most including me dared hope for. But surely even his most ardent supporters must be seeing through this charlatan. We had one shot on target in the whole 90 minutes and had to wait till the 88th minute for that. He has made this team with some talented footballers the most boring Everton team I have seen since I started watching in 1957 and believe me that takes some doing.

He has spent double our record transfer buying a very average centre forward, who he had the luxury to assess over the previous season. He gave Barry a 3-year contract, he looks like an old man playing with the kids. His tactics are totally negative despite claiming attacking football is in his DNA. There was only one team wanting to win the game yesterday and sadly that wasn't us.

The substitution was mind-boggling: your at home with 5 minutes to play and its 0-0 and you decide to bring on a centre-half for a midfield player. This tactic alone nearly cost us the game, because Alcaraz went in the back line to make it a back 5 and the gap that allowed Can to run into was huge just as well he didn't use the space he had.

My one remaining hope is that we achieve safety fairly quickly and BK gets rid of the charlatan.

James Hughes
26 Posted 08/02/2015 at 11:18:11
I would agree with Phil as well, Besic has tackled, harried and chased. Barry always looks more of a liability.
Rob Halligan
27 Posted 08/02/2015 at 11:28:14
Good shout James. Barry is the one more likely to be sent off. Some of his challenges are dangerous.
Glen Garrett
28 Posted 08/02/2015 at 11:22:02
I think that the only thing that is keeping Matinaz in the Everton managers seat is that Everton are still in The Europa League... maybe not for long, the way Everton play. After last night's game, god only knows what Chelsea are going to do with Everton.

Hopefully Chelsea will put their Under-18 squad in against Everton & save us the embarrassment of a right kicking. I don't know what else to really say except I'd rather David Moyes was still at Everton – at least he had plenty of fight in him and he did love Everton FC.

Chris James
29 Posted 08/02/2015 at 11:33:20
I thought we actually looked alright in the first half, playing more direct and had some chances, let down by our final ball and some poor touches from our front 3 (Rom obviously included).

For me we desperately need a striker with good touch alongside Rom to pick up from knock-downs. I'd love to see Lukaku + Kone together or even Nais played actually alongside Lukaku and not one of them out wide. Do that and stick Lennon and Mirallas on the flanks and full backs overlapping we'll create. With Besic and Macca in central midfield we can lose Barry to find the extra person up front.

Steve Harris
31 Posted 08/02/2015 at 11:09:23
Great point Phil, its funny that Besic being on a yellow is used as a convenient excuse to haul him off but the slow and increasingly embarrassing Barry (who had another dreadful game yesterday) stays on regardless of his performance or whether he's had one of his numerous and record breaking number of yellow cards!
Bobby Thomas
32 Posted 08/02/2015 at 11:36:37
Irrespective of whether Barry should be here sitting on the deal he’s on, he is and Martinez has to realise he’s doing Barry no favours.

He’s 33 and is at the age where you need less football. He needs to start no more than roughly 25 league games, so he’s sharp, fresh & we get the best of him. Can still be a very effective player for us on that basis.

Unfortunately, the folly of the signing is that due to the size of squads we run, we probably can’t do that. He’s got two more years left.

Age, contract length and wages wise, a signing fundamentally wrong for the way we do things.

Chris James
33 Posted 08/02/2015 at 11:43:03
That said though I think Martinez has blown it this season for me and has to go in the summer.

From poor pre-season preparation through to dogged obsession with a playing style that even Stoke and Hull sussed out and counteracted he's taken the promising chalice inherited from Moyes, which to be fair he gilded himself last year and poisoned it.

I'm not expecting him to compete with Chelsea, Man City or Man Utd nor even cement a top 4 spot, but we should be competing for Europa at least.

I also don't want to hear about the money argument as he has had some cash to splash and it's not worked out, meanwhile at Saints Koeman has shown just what's possible with a well organised/motivated team even when you've lost your supposed 'star' players.

On that note, with a different manager, I'd probably not weep too much for the departure of a few of ours. Mirallas is clearly on his way and if we could get a stupid sum for Barkley (as we did for an equally unproven Rodwell) I'd be happy to let him go, leaving us with 㿔-50M to spend on a squad refresh.

Derek Knox
34 Posted 08/02/2015 at 11:52:27
I suppose a point, on reflection of the way we have played recently, is not so bad really, although we were at home, and I would have expected more shots on goal.

The one player who has surprised me over the last few games, is El Teflon, and I was one of his biggest critics, for past performances. In all fairness to the lad, he has improved and taken his chance of regular football as a springboard to better things. Having said that, I still think we need a top quality keeper (for when Tim goes) and am not totally convinced El Teflon is good enough to be 'Numero Uno'!

I bet Chelsea are dreading playing us. :-)

Kevin Rowlands
35 Posted 08/02/2015 at 12:06:07
I honestly have wanted Martinez to succeed and have been one oh his defenders in the past but yesterday finished me off. The complete indecision regarding the Barkley substitution just before half-time was a fucking joke... just like most of the season has been.

I mean it's just before half time, it's freezing fucking cold, he's got Ross standing there ready to come on, but he's letting Naismith make the decision... why not just wait till half time? Or why not you make the decision, your the frigging manager! What must Barkley have been thinking?

The season has gone the same, indecision, poor tactics, bad team selection, sticking with out-of-form favorites, ridiculous press conferences, poor excuses... the list just goes on.

I'm on board now, Phil W, and fully admit you've been right and most of us wrong; he's out of his depth and has to go – the sooner the better!

Matthew Williams
36 Posted 08/02/2015 at 12:21:24
Considering some of the derby performances down the years, I am happy we are unbeaten this season against Liverpool. It was not a great performance but we didn't lose and our little unbeaten run continues.

It seems to me Martinez has done what a few of you asked for which was to stop the rot and go back to basics, get the clean sheets and build from there; we are now doing that yet a lot of people still want to moan.

Personally, I just can't wait for this season to end, I am confident Martinez will make changes (some will be forced anyway) and he can start to rebuild a bit.

I have to keep reminding myself we still have Europe to come and that we actually won the group; that has gone to the back of my mind in recent weeks but, with the threat of relegation now dwindling, maybe we can enjoy this last period of the season.

It's not all Doom and Gloom, chaps.

Tony Marsh
37 Posted 08/02/2015 at 12:30:16
What I find most interesting is after watching the game again this morning is Steven Naismith ordering Lukaku out wide while he takes the striker position... WTF??!?! If we pay 㿈 million for a striker, then let him play striker?

Naismith is useless. Can't pick a pass, gets dispossessed every time he gets the ball, wastes our best chance of the game in the first half, etc. Which fucking Genius thought up the tactics for yesterday's match?

I can't believe how shit Barry, Coleman, Naismith and Lukaku have gone since last season. Is it coincidence or something being taught and drummed in? Martinez had our lads playing fearless all-out attacking football last season; now we look like the rabbits in the headlights we used to be under Moyes.

Very interesting indeed!!!

Paul Smith
38 Posted 08/02/2015 at 12:24:22
I think we set ourselves up to get a 0-0 draw and that is exactly what we got. Personally I would have accepted a draw before the match so I can't criticize the selection.

What I can criticize is they had played about five games to our one in the previous two and a half weeks but still it was us who looked fatigued. We have too many players whose effort is not good enough, especially without the ball.

What this match proved conclusively to me is when we play two holding midfielders it's Barry who has to miss out as I thought he had a nightmare. Also that Oviedo is not a good enough replacement for Baines and Garbutt should be played instead.

For Wednesday we should keep the same system but replace Barry with Gibson, Oviedo with Garbutt if Bainsey isn't fit, Mirallas with Lennon and I would be tempted to replace Rom with Kone. Then when we are playing anyone outside the top 4 bring in another winger for a midfielder.

What we must do is get more players into the box and play at a quicker tempo and we will be OK this season but I think major changes are needed for next season with the manager being the main one.

Mike Hughes
39 Posted 08/02/2015 at 12:48:02
Matthew #38

I get your point and agree with part of it but disagree elsewhere.

I, like many, have said that RM needs to put results before performances. That he has managed to cobble 6 points from the past 4 PL games is a step in the right direction and exceeded my expectations of what we'd achieve in those games.

I also can't wait for the season to end (and we survive in the Prem). But that's the point at which we differ.

I've seen enough to sour my opinion of RM and have no faith in him rebuilding the squad. I would not trust him with any more money. I think that his approach to Everton FC has been unprofessional since pre-season.

I could accept an excuse of 'second season syndrome' if it were not for the diabolical pre-season preparations, poor planning, transfers and substitutions.

I'd wish him the best at the end of the season but would agree to shake hand and walk away. In my opinion, he's not going to move us on. Too idealistic and not pragmatic enough.

Phil Rodgers
40 Posted 08/02/2015 at 13:22:59
Sorry to be grumpy but I thought we were awful. We are a very boring team to watch. Season can't come to an end quick enough for me.
Ross Edwards
42 Posted 08/02/2015 at 13:40:50
Only Roberto Martinez could describe a derby where we had one shot on target at home as 'interesting' and later a 'fascinating tactical battle'.
Steve Brown
43 Posted 08/02/2015 at 13:45:44
Come on, Ross, you were backing RM last season and he converted me from a massive sceptic to a supporter. Don't give up on him yet!
Steve Brown
44 Posted 08/02/2015 at 13:47:08

Coleman - Jagielka - Stones - Baines

Besic - McCarthy

Lennon - Barkley - Anyone but Mirallas


Start with that team v Chelsea.

Dan Brierley
45 Posted 08/02/2015 at 13:56:06
A different theme yesterday, we aimed to stop Liverpool playing instead of going out to try and win the game. Can't say I like it at all, but we got a point closer to safety. 4 points from the last two matches is progress!

Let's get to the end of the season, get rid of this clown in charge, and hope the board give a chance to a young up-and-coming manager willing to change and adapt.

Bill Gall
46 Posted 08/02/2015 at 13:28:08
There are a couple of comments on here that I think we should look at and the first one is that Martinez has done what we asked for and that is to go back to basics and improve our defense. My question is: Why did it take until we were practically in the relegation area of the league to realise that something had to be done? Did he not realise before we reached that stage that his tactics were not working?

Another point is on Besic, with people trying to make out his substitution was to stop him getting sent off. Every club has (and I believe Everton need) a midfielder who is not afraid to put his foot in, will not back down, and has a nasty streak in him with skill to go with it. He was not the only player on a yellow and in the modern game some of these referees will give a card just for more exposure on TV. So you do not take a player off if the opposition thinks twice about going in for a 50-50 ball against him.

Although I was happy with the point gained as in the first half we performed not that great, but were gradually improving from a couple of weeks back, I thought the second half with whatever was discussed at half time, we came out flat and his changes did not appear to make a lot of sense (except to the manager) – Everton's performance dropped.

Ian Burns
47 Posted 08/02/2015 at 14:17:33
Brian (#29),

We have been watching EFC since about the same time and I agree wholeheartedly with you during that time we have seen some pretty awful teams and players in blue but this manager has turned a team of very good players into the worst team in many a year.

The only "interesting" fact, Mr Martinez, about this most boring of derbies was the fact – as if we didn't already know – that it showed you are out of your depth and, if ever the chant of "You don't know what you're doing" was appropriate, it is now and time you were replaced, the sooner the better for me.

Nothing personal, I like your brown shoes but you are never an EFC manager's backside.

Colin Williams
48 Posted 08/02/2015 at 14:12:26
Martinez, part of being a "TEAM" is establishing a clear and common purpose, one that "ALL" the team/squad can understand, describe and commit to!! YouÂ’re a dreamer! Also, I think your feeling good about your role in yesterdayÂ’s game. Your game plan was to take a point out of game... "You should be ashamed of yourself!"

Building a highly effective team "NEEDS" a highly effective Manager.. Your not that guy!

Everton need a coach that leads from the front, is organized and demonstrates boundless energy, enthusiasm and passion for every game.... As well as the magic touch of making every player feel they are special. I donÂ’t think you can reach those standards! Please donÂ’t ruin our great club!!

Mike Childs
50 Posted 08/02/2015 at 14:38:35
All I want to say about RM has naturally been stated ad nausea but if lets Howard walk right back in I will book a flight over and shoot me. I'll get off Justifiable Homicide.
Phil Walling
51 Posted 08/02/2015 at 15:23:34
Dan, I heard a discussion in the lounge yesterday in which it was opined that 'every point we gain is a reason to give RM another season.' Being a supporter's viewpoint it did not get much support but it may well echo BK's thinking.

I have to say, much as I want rid, I would not subscribe to 'a three more defeats and you are out' strategy as, more than anything else I want my club safely in the Prem... whoever is manager!

Dominic Tonge
52 Posted 08/02/2015 at 14:14:48
If we had played Besic and McCarthey from the start, we could have played Lennon, Ross and Kevin M . Barry was great for us last season, but this season he has varied between ineffective and detrimental, I would prefer to see Besic there, because I think if he has a run of starts we will (I believe we already have in part) see the myth of him being a thuggish enforcer dispelled.

Besic can play too, granted he is certainly not afraid to go in full bore, or indeed leave someone in a crumpled heap – but he can play too. A few more displays like the derby and critics, and pundits will see it. We all know that refs go by reputation, And I think Mo has started to change a few people's minds on his.

On a separate point, we were pretty dour, but we didn't take a drubbing, and Steven Gerrard's fairytale Sky Sports send off was ruined, he went out like a damp squib and horrid rednose rumours of guards of (dis)honour were proved to be as snide as the people who started them.

What I did notice was that that performance, if replicated in Europe away from home would be being lauded for us being tight, no nonsense, scrapping when it mattered and giving us a solid platform. Stones and a Jags who looks a lot less shaky and is quietly getting back to form looked good at the heart of our defence, although if we play three centre backs I would like to see Browning as opposed to Alcaraz all day everyday. All-in-all, it was better... not good, but better.

Vinny Garstrokes
54 Posted 08/02/2015 at 16:11:23
I was satisfied! A good solid performance from Robles, Jags, Stones Besic & McCarthy will build the confidence levels and allow for a bit more flair from the likes of Barkley and Lennon.
Paul McGinty
55 Posted 08/02/2015 at 16:34:05
Watched the 4 - 0 demolition of Real by Athletico Madrid yesterday. That was a template for a derby performance by the supposed underdog. Combination of steel, work ethic and skill. Simeone is one tough hombre and his team reflects that.

As for the blues, Gareth Barry was so far off the pace yesterday he was a liability. Big Rom has to work harder on and off the ball – plus he is so poor in the air we are using Naismith, our best attacking header of the ball as the target for the out ball. I had thought Rom was further along in his development but clearly he has fundamental holes is his game.

Looks like the plan for the league season is to squeeze out the points to get to safety.

Ross Edwards
56 Posted 08/02/2015 at 17:16:07
Steve, I'm 51/49 at the moment. I have got my doubts, and he does talk utter rubbish. I've got to say I was disappointed with yesterday, I think both managers came to realise that a point might not be so bad.

I think he's a good manager and a really nice guy but I'm beginning to see through his soundbites now and some of his decisions have been bizarre. I just hope he finds a way out of Barry's arse eventually.

Plato Stavrinos
57 Posted 08/02/2015 at 17:32:28
Most of us wished we would sign Lukaku when he was at West Brom and we did. Most of us asked RM to shore up the defense and he did.

Now we complain about Lukaku and that we are too defensive??

Lukaku has had no service from our wingers or from any creative midfielder (which we donÂ’t have). He is not the link player we all want. We need a "real number 10" to play the link role and give him more service.

I still believe the RM will get it right but he needs to go out and buy a creative midfielder.

Michael Kenrick
58 Posted 08/02/2015 at 18:00:21
I'm not sure I buy this claim that Lukaku is being made to look extremely poor because he gets "no service". Count how many times the ball was played up to him yesterday. He simply could not claim or master the ball. His technique relies on letting the ball bounce in front of him, and while he ponders the intricacies of its trajectory, a defender invariably nips in to steal.

There was a glorious ball yesterday played over his shoulder, bouncing perfectly for control, and he hopelessly allowed Emre Can to gain mastery of it. That's just one of countless such examples of his atrocious first touch.

Steve Cotton
59 Posted 08/02/2015 at 18:47:26
Considering how we had been playing for the last 6 weeks or so, this nil-nil was a godsend. If we had gone for it, we would have lost – plain and simple. However, we held the RS and dented their top 4 aspirations as well as getting a tough fixture over without losing.

Get behind the team and lets build for the rest of the season. I would take 10th now, then sort it all out in the summer. Stones, Besic and McCarthy all looked good, so let's build the team up, not put it down.

By the way... Henderson is a twat!!

Dave Abrahams
60 Posted 08/02/2015 at 19:25:01
Steve. (64) your'e right about Henderson, everything he does with his aggro is for effect, does it to impress the Red fans, a bit like Tommy Smith used to do. Complete phonies, the pair of them.
Brian Harrison
61 Posted 08/02/2015 at 19:40:48

I agree completely about Lukaku, there are loads of strikers playing in the prem that are a lot better and cost a lot less. We are so desperate for him to be a success that even just not losing possession when it's played to him is greeted with rapturous applause. But the money has been spent so unfortunately we are stuck with him. I wonder why RM is so reluctant to ever replace him in games with Kone.

As for the game yesterday one of the biggest cheers yesterday was when we won a throw-in 10 yards inside their half. You know you're a bad team when the fans have to get excited about a throw-in inside your opponents half and you're at home.

Craig Walker
62 Posted 08/02/2015 at 19:50:08
I've seen far worse derby performances down the years. Ross did well when he came on but hindsight is great. He has been woeful all season.

Whatever we think, the RS are far better than us and have been since the 80s. 3 wins for us in about 15 years. I saw Rodgers being interviewed and he was pleased with a point. People were forecasting a rout with Sturridge and Sterling ripping us to shreds.

We are more solid at the back of late and Robles has improved. Lukaku is yet another centre forward in a long line who does not know how to stay onside. People on here were saying it was the start of us being back to the good times when he signed. His second touch is a tackle.

Barry is too slow and fouls too much. He reminds me of Neville. There are some positives though: Besic, Stones, McCarthy and I think Lennon will do well. 4 points from the last two games is 4 more than I thought we'd get a few weeks' back.

Phil Walling
63 Posted 08/02/2015 at 19:30:25
Ross, with all your reservations, what is it about Martinez that makes you think he is 'a good manager'? Brown shoes?
Paul Tran
64 Posted 08/02/2015 at 20:00:56
What's the story with Kone? We keep hearing he's fit, when comes on as sub he looks sharp, Lukaku is stinking the place out yet Kone doesn't get a game. Strange.....
Paul Tran
65 Posted 08/02/2015 at 20:04:03
Phil, record points and goals tally last season suggests to me there's something there. Something that's completely disappeared this season.

Do you really believe last season was totally down to luck and the Moyes legacy?

Mike Childs
66 Posted 08/02/2015 at 19:34:09
Lukaku may never have a great first touch at times it's acceptable. Just like some times his headers lead to a break when he steers to someone else as I see it.

1st: he needs to loose a few stones and them gain one back of sheer muscle.

2nd: he needs to grow up. It shouldn't take benching him to get something out of him.

3rd: he needs to grow a mean streak.

Screw the fact that he's only 21 he has played 100 EPL games...

He should be there by now.

Mike K. Our beloved guru is spot on.

Paul Smith
67 Posted 08/02/2015 at 20:15:34
As soon as the team was announced with Maca, Mo and demolition Barry, I suggested it was more about not loosing rather than winning. We missed Baines. Oviedo hasn't been the same since that terrible injury.
Paul Kossoff
68 Posted 08/02/2015 at 19:49:34
Did I see Henderson doing a spit at Naismith during the handbags? Have a look.
Brian Williams
69 Posted 08/02/2015 at 20:46:41
It WAS interesting in a way.

Showed me several things.

1) How much we've missed McCarthy.

2) How Ross can go from the sublime to the ridiculous. ie. Having the vision to put Coleman in on goal with that glorious pass to failing to put his foot on a straightforward pass in midfield.

3) Barry at times can be a real liability. More than once he does that turn when he gets the ball facing our goal, and turns right into an opponent and sets up their attack for them. Time after time, week after week.

4) Coleman still way, way below what we've come to expect of him.

5) If we were that shit how did we manage to keep out a team that's been flying of late and only REALLY threatened when the young lad Ide hit the post...well almost only then. (Poetic license).

6) Henderson's a complete wanker.

Brian Williams
70 Posted 08/02/2015 at 20:53:23

7) So is Sturridge.

Andy Meighan
71 Posted 08/02/2015 at 20:29:21
IÂ’ve been BarryÂ’s biggest critic this season and as one poster brilliantly put it, he looks like heÂ’s playing with the kids. But I didnÂ’t think he was that bad yesterday. He lost possession a couple of times which could of cost us but overall he played okay. But still I donÂ’t know what the Spaniard's obsession with him is.

The worst culprits for me yesterday were Lukaku and Naismith. It gets on my nerves when the ball bounces off Lukaku's shins and people sitting there shout "Oh unlucky, Rom... he cost us a whopping 㿈 million so in my view he should be able to kill a ball.

The latter, well IÂ’ve praised him in spades this season but IÂ’m afraid heÂ’s limited and should not be guaranteed a starting slot every game. I mean, it's not as if heÂ’s popping up with vital goals every now and then... If the Spaniard had any bottle, heÂ’d drop the pair of them for the Chelsea game and bring in Kone and Barkley. But we all know he wonÂ’t.

The positive to take from the game is the partnership of Stones and Jagielka who were once again solid and its no coincidence that since stones got back in weÂ’ve tightened up considerably. stones reading of the game is superb oh and a mention for Robles who since having a run in the side has looked confident. If he brings Howard back, itÂ’ll be a crime it really will

Mike Childs
72 Posted 08/02/2015 at 20:58:25
I would sell my soul to devil and consider it a bargain to have Simone in charge of our team.
Ross Edwards
73 Posted 08/02/2015 at 21:11:21
All managers have their faults Phil. The fact that RM has won a trophy proves that he's not a total fraud.
Tony Hill
74 Posted 08/02/2015 at 21:12:51
Brian 27, your comment about this being the most boring Everton side in the last 60 years is, I am sorry to say, the simple truth. God knows I have seen some poor sides but none which has been so lacking in heart and soul.

That is why I think some of us were so dispirited after yesterday. That was not an Everton I recognise against the RS but it reflected so much of what we have endured this season. Even when we scratch a result it's like watching the walking dead. I go to Goodison and the players turn out in an Everton kit but it doesn't feel real or as though they mean it. I think the crowd feels this which is why the atmosphere is generally so poor.

I understand we have to be practical and get points and I think we will be safe in the end, though not as comfortably as some seem to think, But my word it's hard to watch and I think we are entitled to better, much better.

Dave Abrahams
75 Posted 08/02/2015 at 21:47:49
Mike (78) don't say that, not even in jest.
David Pearl
76 Posted 08/02/2015 at 23:07:56
Yep, the derby was nothing like interesting. In fact, sitting next to a RS supporter, I was completely embarrassed by how utter shite we are. OK in getting into the final 3rd but then either offside or a stray pass put us back to square one. Over and over again. I've never seen anything like it.

Players lost their expression to play naturally... RM has lost the players and I doubt he can get them back.

He has however, really gone back to basics though hasn't he. Let's start with shoring up the defence and make us hard to break down. After the Chelsea game, perhaps he will try to fix the distance between defence and attack. The difference from last season in painful. Pitiful. Even if we did look like a baby taking first steps for the first few games last season, the players were eager to learn a new system. I remember wanting Kendall out, and I was wrong then. Could I be wrong now?

One thing I do agree with RM over is not taking off Barry instead of Besic. I don't think Besic is ready to play in a partnership with McCarthy or be the last line before defence. Apart from that, what was Rock Lobster doing on the bench till the 85th minute? Too many questions... but only one answer. RM must go. Put Duncan or Sheeds in for the remainder of the season and get shut of the rest of the Wigan backroom staff. Just like Moyes bought his backstreet boys with him to his doom, RM did the same and tore apart the fabric. Playing for a draw at home in a derby...

Andy Crooks
78 Posted 09/02/2015 at 00:18:20
I agree almost entirely. I would like Martinez gone immediately but it won't happen. Therefore, I will have to accept us crawling towards 40 points and hope that Kenwright will not see it as acceptable.
Colin Williams
79 Posted 09/02/2015 at 01:36:36
Andy, I believe we will reach 40 points quite easily...we have to much quality to struggle at bottom end of league. My beef is, with such quality within the squad, how/ why the feck did we get into this mess?

There are so many areas within this mess we can discuss but the manager & coaches have displayed a piss-poor level of management & coaching knowledge. The gaffer and his coaches’ job is to maximize the potential of all players, young and old. When you think how many of the players are way out of form, and unable to get their quality of performance back – also, the time period it’s gone on for. Coaches need different "hats" (coaching) for different players and obviously this ain’t working as it should!

Although, I do believe Lennon is a top loan and, combined with Atsu coming back from playing at a very high level, we will be very strong in wide areas. So, combined with a very good central midfield group (which we have) and a quality back 5... even the manager can’t feck this one up any more. I just hope our quality within the final third will improve with Lennon and a rejuvenated young man who’s not had a look in. Here’s hoping, Martinez selects the players who "deserve a shirt" – not just because they are experienced "full Internationals for their country" or been given "long-contracts" by our manager.

Peter Fitzpatrick
80 Posted 09/02/2015 at 03:59:59
The change from being solid to regaining confidence going forward should start with Naismith being dropped. Yes, I admire his work rate and attitude, but with McCarthy back, he brings this to the table as well.

People are quick to have a go at Barkley for losing the ball, but Naismith loses the ball or is not able to control the ball in the first place, a lot more than Barkley. At his age, Ross needs to be playing week in, week out, and now the defence and midfield look to have been sured-up, his development should not come at the expense of someone who gives a wet shirt every week.

Paul Ward
81 Posted 09/02/2015 at 05:13:17
Jim Bennings (#3 & #9) says it all for me. Whilst everyone is entitled to an opinion it is annoying to read posts like Helen Mallon (#13) who seem insulted by what is the overwhelming general opinion.

In your last paragraph you say "What do you lot want? That’s another point we have, it’s plain to see that some people just don’t get football. It’s about results and getting those results playing boring football is just as pleasing as winning by ten when you are in a rut as we have been."

Well the reason we are in this rut is because of the management. So should all Evertonians be thankful for this latest embarrassing performance?

Brian Porter
82 Posted 09/02/2015 at 06:06:13
So, Martinez has moved on from "phenomenal" to "interesting". Hmmm... unbeaten in five, so why doesn't it feel like it? Simple... one win and the team appears grateful to walk off the pitch with a draw under their belts.

The only players today who looked like they were up for the intensity of a Merseyside derby were Besic, Jagielka, Naismith and Lennon when he came on. "Super Kev" showed his usual inability to last more than 30 minutes (CL clubs please note), and Lukaku had reverted to carthorse mode and should have been replaced with Kone at half-time. Oviedo did okay but needs more game time to get his old fire back.

Besic pulled off again, why? And the fact the manager replaced him with a defender showed he had no intention of going for a win in the last few minutes. Lennon looked fitter than all our team apart from Besic which says a lot. The only reason we appeared stronger in the last quarter was nothing to do with our superior fitness levels (haha) and more down to the fact they'd played 5 games to our one in recent weeks.

We must stop settling for draws and start winning games, especially at home. Until we do, my faith in Martinez will remain "phenomenally" low, and I firmly believe we can only progress with a new man at the helm, sooner rather than later.

Ant Summers
83 Posted 09/02/2015 at 08:10:02
Martinez is only worried about 1 thing at the moment. Survival. That means getting another 15 points it does not matter how, he will belligerently stand in front of the press and tell you about a game that most did not see. So that is what's happening. Boring negative defensive football until we are safe in the Premier League. As for the Europa League, if we get through the next round he may open up a bit, but don't hold your breath.

If the same system is played on Wednesday, Chelsea will be happy, they open up defensive teams with ease at times, that could become embarrassing. However, I don't see us being offensive, do you?

Also to all those out there who are happy with what you see, you will all be doing something I won't be doing in June, renewing your season tickets.

As someone put up earlier, we don't have the players to play the way RM would like to see, most of our players need a second or two longer to think when on the ball than the best in the Premier League. EFC don't have the money or don't want to spend the money on those type of players, and so BK has had his last off me, until this board takes a different stance.

Mark Andersson
84 Posted 09/02/2015 at 08:52:02
Ant you will cave if we have a good run In. I stayed awake and sober in the early hours of the morning too watch that shite.

Lukaku looks fooked after 10 minutes. What happened to the guy that scored that great header against West Ham last season? Okay, so be banged his head but got the glory, since then he is a shit house when it comes to heading the ball.

James Lauwervine
85 Posted 09/02/2015 at 09:53:10
Steve #47 that's the team I'd like to see, maybe with Bainesy forward on the left and Garbutt behind. I think it's worth trying the two of them together. The best prospect in the current Everton squad is McCarthy and Besic with Barkley in front and Stones behind. There are four really excellent young players there that could form the heart of a successful team. Lukaku is promising but still too inconsistent, though it amuses me how everyone was dancing in the streets when we signed him but now slate him endlessly.

I'm willing to give Roberto more time than a lot of people on here but his playing Barry and Naismith so regularly is starting to irritate me. I could never imagine a situation where I would pick Naismith before Barkley, unless an injury was involved.

Dave Abrahams
86 Posted 09/02/2015 at 10:21:20
David (82) David, "put Dunc and Sheedy in for the rest of the season" you honestly and truly do not know what you are asking for, and I know why I am saying this.
Raymond Fox
87 Posted 09/02/2015 at 10:41:11
Brian 90, progress to where?

How many of our squad would be in the starting line up of the 4 richest clubs. Baines and Coleman, maybe, but not a given, Stones and Barkley another maybe, but their not ready yet to be 1st choice in the fore mentioned, the rest not a chance!

Yes they finished 5th last year, but by the same token we were managed by the same man!

Martinez is now/soon faced with replacing our aged players who in their pomp were Premier League class, we're not a Man City, Chelsea, Man Utd, Spurs, Arsenal or even the Reds who in our position would splash the cash, lack of money is our Achilles heel.

So where's the cash we need to spend coming from? My guess is that Barkley will be the sacrificial lamb.

Martinez is coming in for all manner of criticism, some of it fair, but I would argue that unless we spend a lot more money we have not a cat in hell's chance of becoming a top 4 side, whoever is manager.

Terence Leong
88 Posted 09/02/2015 at 10:46:45
I am still hopeful that Martinez is the future. Changing the style will take time. It is not an unknown fact that when you 're-wire' someone, change their game (and this happens in all sports), that it often gets poorer before it gets better.

It's happened with golfers, tennis players, bowlers and so on. Of course, we hope that it won't be at the expense of getting relegated!

And in the short run, we all rue the fact that we miss out on trophies in the short run. I believe one reason why so many of us are so upset is that for the past three seasons, they were there for the taking, because of the transitions amongst various teams.

What Martinez did for Swansea, Rodgers, Laudrup and now Monk is building on it. I can imagine being clobbered for this comment that I've just written.

Over the years, I have seen enough "up and at 'em" football, without the corresponding skills to complement the "blood & thunder" football.

Without over-romanticizing the Barca way of play, ultimately, being able to keep possession and retaining the ability to control the game is still the more predictable way to win games.

Yes, I believe that we need to mix it up. Last season's results and performances gives me hope that we can do it. Perhaps the bedding in process, building the foundations etc is taking longer than usual.

We are giving Martinez a hard time after 18 months. Van Gaal has spent a fortune, and he seems to be given a lot more slack by their fans.

Kendall Mk I was also getting worse before it got better. If I remember correctly, he came in 81-82, and it got worse before 83-84 (the famous FA cup tie). Let's give it some time.

Brent Stephens
89 Posted 09/02/2015 at 09:26:13
Brian #80 "And the fact the manager replaced him with a defender showed he had no intention of going for a win in the last few minutes."

On the other hand, his intention might have been to have three in the middle of the back line to allow full backs to push on?? I don't know.

Brent Stephens
90 Posted 09/02/2015 at 11:29:29
Ross #79 "The fact that RM has won a trophy proves that he's not a total fraud."

Ross, which significant teams did Wigan beat to win the cup? Get lucky in a couple of games against us and MC and there you are. Proves nothing much.

Ant Summers
91 Posted 09/02/2015 at 12:01:29
Brent, the FA Cup game against us, they battered us, I pray we see that positivity that Wigan displayed some day at Goodison – from an Everton side.
Les Fitzpatrick
92 Posted 09/02/2015 at 08:39:20
BK is driven by money.

As I posted on here about 3 weeks ago, I am not going to renew my season ticket until this manager is bounced out of our club, and back into the Championship where he belongs.

I have been a season ticket holder for 22 years, but that's it for now... I will pay at the gate next season.

A drop in season ticket sales might focus Kenwright's mind.

Anto Byrne
93 Posted 09/02/2015 at 12:11:47
Moyes had his time... he was a big time bottler. Martinez is at least trying to change the way we play. A settled side with confidence at the back. Even the keeper is a massive improvement.

I hope he continues keeping clean sheets and improving with each game. Howard can warm the bench. We are better than WHU, Newcastle and Stoke and 8th spot would be a reasonable finish. The EL is there – with a bit of luck we should do well.

Dave Lynch
94 Posted 09/02/2015 at 12:19:50
A couple of points.

For all his bullshit and blathering, Martinez is no fool, he knew if he lost this game by whatever score then he was staring into the abyss.

He set the team out to not lose and consequently surrendered any chance of actually winning the game.

Lukaku looks poor because he is a poor footballer, he may be a half-decent box striker but that does not make him a footballer by any stretch of the imagination.

He can't pass, head, trap or dribble – all of which go someway to making a footballer. He does have a modicum of pace and is immensely powerful but that does not make him a footballer worth 㿈 million quid.

Chelsea will be a big test; over to you, Roberto...

Ross Edwards
95 Posted 09/02/2015 at 12:53:48
Brent, at least they got there. Doesn't matter who you beat.
Tom Bowers
96 Posted 09/02/2015 at 12:45:50
I agree Kendall was poor initially but what a recovery.

Martinez will probably be kept on this season and the beginning of next for a while to see what progress, if any, he makes but it's lights out if we have more of the same during that time.

Last season may have been a flash in the pan and all the fans, including me started to get excited at the breath of fresh air within the performances.

There are no excuses for what has happened this season and as we all know the manager gets it before any of the players do.

RM has in the squad a number of players over 30 who are in decline or always injured and they should be moved out in the Summer either for new signings or emerging youngsters otherwise the Blues will never have a settled formation which goes a long way to success.

Sam Hoare
97 Posted 09/02/2015 at 13:08:04
Martinez in the Echo today saying Howard will be straight back in goal the moment he is fit. I fucking despair.
Dave Lynch
98 Posted 09/02/2015 at 13:17:57
I'm with you on that, Sam.

Robles was beginning to resemble a goalkeeper. So let's drop a fit effective keeper who is starting to gell with the back 4 and put in a liability who is lacking match practice.

The mind fucking boggles? 6 without loss says to me the keeper is doing fine.

Dave Lynch
99 Posted 09/02/2015 at 13:26:49
On another point/rant...

We are 10 points off eigth place! 10 fucking points (that has only just hit home when looking at the table).

So no Europe for us next season either.

Mike Green
100 Posted 09/02/2015 at 13:30:42
Unless we win the Europa League that is (OK, OK, I was being optimistic!)

Dave / Sam – I agree about Robles, he's actually starting to look like he's gaining confidence and has got potential to develop into a good keeper. Since he's come in he's not put many feet wrong and had a blinder in particular against WHM. Would be a shame to dismantle that to put Howard back in who for the first half of the season played like he had his head up his backside.

Jamie Crowley
101 Posted 09/02/2015 at 13:50:08
Howard should not walk straight back into the side.

Robles has been very good IMO and deserves to keep his spot.

Guy Hastings
104 Posted 09/02/2015 at 14:06:48
Dave Lynch – RL may be 'immensely powerful' but he couldn't knock Kylie Minogue off the ball. And the one time in the first half he showed a good first touch he totally fucked it up with his second.
Sam Hoare
105 Posted 09/02/2015 at 14:26:27
Our defense has been a shambles all season but the last few matches we have a string of clean sheets and look much tighter and Martinez wants to change it up and put Howard back in regardless.

Also stating this publicly will affect the confidence and motivation for one of our younger players who has been performing very admirably just before a huge test at Chelsea. Beggars belief.

Steven Telford
106 Posted 09/02/2015 at 16:32:16
Couple of days later and I am still boiling from going over in my heard what the fuck Martinez did for that derby – the indecision over Barkley coming on was the absolute pits! For me, that derby and the (in)decision on Barkley makes for a tipping point in how I view the Martinez.

I understand Barkley being on the bench, but add it up: A local lad who understand the significance of the derby more than most, and who at the same time happens to be the hottest prospect in English football. And you wont even bring him on in place of a quasi-concussed Naismith.

What more does he need, Dave Whelan to send a text?

Chris Corn
107 Posted 09/02/2015 at 16:56:28
Sam 113, couldn't agree more. I think Robles has done more than enough to keep the jersey. Howard was a key reason we were floundering defensively in my view and to undermine Robles like that, especially after 3 clean sheets is a bit shit.
Steven Telford
108 Posted 09/02/2015 at 17:32:39
Ross #79

Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Sorry, but Martinez is not a proven winner – far from it; league performance is what weeds out the randomness of cup luck.

He has a lot to prove – and I hope he does, but a categorical refusal to change a loosing formula is hardly grounds for optimism.

Ian Burns
109 Posted 09/02/2015 at 19:18:39
I long ago gave up on this manager, now I can't keep myself from getting angry every single time I see what he is uttering.

A derby that was interesting – now he undermines Robles before the Chelsea game by saying Howard will come back as number one when he is fit.

I want to scream; I want to catch a plane and fly to FF to confront this idiot to leave our great club alone.

His statement over the weekend symmetrical versus assy-fecking–metrical made me wince in embarrassment.

Dave Lynch
110 Posted 09/02/2015 at 20:00:04

Where in my post did I say he used that powerful physique?

Your preaching to the converted mate, I never wanted him near the club in the first place.

Mourinho is no idiot and he has done us up like a kipper.

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