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Frustrated players admit: “It's not good enough”

by | 23/02/2015  Comments (151)  jump
Three of Everton's players have opened up to the media to express the frustration they share with the fans as the Blues' disappointing domestic form dragged on with a 2-2 draw with Leicester on Sunday.

Tension and apprehension have in recent weeks become an increasingly noticeable feature at Goodison Park where Roberto Martinez's side have registered just three Premier League wins all season.

That is sharply at odds with their form in the Europa League where they have looked impressive in handsomely beating Wolfsburg, Lille and Young Boys.

The Swiss side come to Merseyside on Thursday for a second leg that should be a formality for the Blues given their 4-1 lead from the first leg but it's results in the League that remain a concern.

“We are fully aware that [not winning at home] is not good enough.”

Leighton Baines

“It's frustrating," Leighton Baines said on evertontv. "Once again it's a game that we should be winning but we have ended up having to battle away just to get a point. So it is frustrating and disappointing.

“For the most part, we have not been able to break teams who try and frustrate us down. We try to figure it out but what we have been doing hasn't been good enough for the majority of the time. In numerous games here at Goodison that we expect to win, we have come away with a point or nothing at all.

“We are fully aware that that is not good enough.”

Baines returned from injury against the Foxes but had a subdued afternoon as Nigel Pearson's team overturned a 1-0 deficit to lead 2-1 going into the final couple of minutes.

Steven Naismith had earlier scored what should have been the platform from which Everton went on to comfortably beat the top flight's bottom club but errors by Tim Howard and a failure to pick up Esteban Cambiasso for Leicester's second goal put the Blues behind.

The Scot also admits that the performance as a whole just wasn't good enough but he refused to use the Toffees' involvement in Europe as an excuse, even he if claims it has affected results.

“In the first half, the way we played wasn't good enough,” Naismith said in the Liverpool Echo. “We were very slow in our passing, and there wasn't a change of tempo when we went forward. We didn't really cause too many problems for Leicester.

“But in the second half, the game did open up. And with us getting the first goal, we are disappointed we let Leicester back in it.

“The biggest thing is probably a lack of concentration from us. It isn't good enough on our part, but we're glad that we did manage to rescue a point in the end.

“When you've worked so hard to get into Europe, that's the next level, and you've got to be capable of doing it,” he continued. “It's just an extra game, and it's there for anybody to see. “That's what taking Everton to the next level is about, and we need to get used to it. We probably haven't equipped ourselves well enough this season with it, and that's something we would definitely look to work on going forward.”

James McCarthy, meanwhile, told the Irish Times that he is confident the team will bounce back for Thursday and, hopefully, continue to improve from there.

“It was a very frustrating day,” the midfielder said of Sunday's draw. “It has been a frustrating campaign, especially in the league. It's frustrating as a player. As a fan it's no good watching it either.

“We want to get maximum points at home. The fans have come out in their numbers and we are trying to kick up this table.

“Every one of us knows that we need to address this. We know it is not good enough.

“We go again on Thursday (in the Europa League) and the fans need to stick with us. I am sure we will bounce back.”  


Reader Comments (151)

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Chris Jones
1 Posted 24/02/2015 at 00:04:33
Frustrated fan agrees. Next!
Mark Andersson
2 Posted 24/02/2015 at 00:06:21
Sure, the board are panicking about fans not showing up for the remaining games and not renewing season tickets.

Paul Webb
3 Posted 24/02/2015 at 00:11:41
Talking more sense than the manager.
Brett Jonathan
4 Posted 24/02/2015 at 00:30:01
“We are fully aware that that is not good enough.” Well said Mr Baines.

If only your manager could work up enough courage to spit out that kind of sentence at the moment, heĂ‚’d go a long way to winning back at least some respect.

Jackie Barry
5 Posted 24/02/2015 at 01:09:37
If only the players could put in the performance their pay check warrants.
Peter Fitzpatrick
6 Posted 24/02/2015 at 01:18:29
IĂ‚’m sure all three of the mentioned players will feel let down by the likes of Tim Howard and Lukaku, who emphatically failed to do their job properly, and given that they are three of our most consistent and hard-working players.

Roberto has to use Thursday to put Joel back in. We have become so used to Howard staying rooted to his line that Joel was a breath of fresh air once he had a run in the team, even though this commanding the area in such a way should be a given for a keeper.

Gavin Johnson
7 Posted 24/02/2015 at 01:48:48
Isn't this where Martinez should be showing his worth tactically and answering this question on how he sets us up and maybe play with a 3-5-2, or even a 4-4-2, (perish the thought) against the likes of Leicester.

It's been obvious since the home draw with Swansea, that the supposed lesser teams have set out to frustrate us this season... and it's worked. This was the game when Martinez blamed Swansea for not wanting to play football, and it illustrated to me how we have been found out. Isn't it up to us to work out how to beat teams that sit back so we end up playing tika taka in our own half, instead of blaming them for not wanting to play to our managers strengths.

I have no doubts that we can match some of Europe's best when they play to beat us. We can then play the expansive fluid football that had us all dreaming of the Champions league last season. But unless we look at formations and start playing the likes of Oviedo in the same team as Baines, or Kone alongside Rom, or have two proper wingers on the field at the same time instead of playing Nairsmith out wide we will be in a dog fight until the end of the season.

Mike Gaynes
8 Posted 24/02/2015 at 02:11:31
I couldn't give a damn whether the manager says it. Hearing the players say it is what's important to me. And I would have particularly liked to hear it from Timmy and Rom, the two biggest culprits.

I actually thought Roberto did a good job of changing tactics on Sunday by bringing Gibbo into the game with his long passes and sliding Naismith inside and to the left of Rom. It produced six clear chances in 30 minutes.

But I'm with Gavin on one point... I'd love to see Kone and Rom together up top Whatever the rest of the alignment, we need to start striking fear into opposing backlines instead of boredom.

Dick Fearon
9 Posted 24/02/2015 at 02:12:22
Not one of them has suggested the current situation could partly be the result of our lousy pre season. Nor is there a whisper of anything wrong with Roberto's tactics.

They did not, could not, would not, or dare not offer an idea on how to improve the team's performance.

The only conclusion we can draw from that load of codswallop is they are scared to voice the truth or they would not recognize the truth if it smacked them in the gob. Then again perhaps it is the fans that are ignorant.

Darryl Ritchie
10 Posted 24/02/2015 at 03:14:23
When they play at home, they are as tight as a drum. There's no spontaneity. There's no joy. The farther afield the team goes, the better they play (witness the EL). It's hard to believe that the Everton, that blew Young Boys away, is the same Everton that struggled for a draw against basement dwelling Leicester.

The reasons for our less than spectacular season have been discussed at length. Everybody knows what the problems are. The fans know. The players know. A lot of the mess we're in can traced directly to the manager, but not all.

Knowing the problem is easy, fixing the problem, not so much.

Steven Telford
11 Posted 24/02/2015 at 04:23:47
IF we were relegated, Matrinez would come out in the media describing it as "a pronominal opportunity to rebuild" and add how proud he is of players.

Peter Barry
13 Posted 24/02/2015 at 04:32:04
This self same message is being said so often by so many different people - players , coaches and Management - that its becoming boring because nothing ever changes and we keep on getting the same old crap in the Prem games week after week.
Brian Porter
14 Posted 24/02/2015 at 06:14:35
Some may disagree with me, but I trace our current
run of appalling results back to our last EL group game against Krasnodar. Our manager, who fielded a team of kids, made it clear the result didn't matter. WRONG! As a former coach I was taught that you always play to win. Martinez basically gave up before a ball was kicked in that game, giving the players an insight into his overall mentality. He should have played a strong team, slaughtered the opposition and sent out a message that we are Everton and we play to win! The EL should have a rule that in order to respect all teams and supporters, clubs must play their strongest possible team in all matches. Anyway, my point really is that once the players feel the manager doesn't really care about a result, no matter what his reasons, they lose a certain degree of motivation and I firmly believe that the rot set in that night and has never left us. I remember seeing Leighton Baines' face in the second half of that game, sitting with the suvs sand backroom team and have never seen him look so frustrated at being unable to get out there and help to pull back the deficit. How many others felt like that? It's a situation like that that can have serious long term destabilizing effects and I think that's just what happened that night and we are still living with its legacy.
Neil Pickering
15 Posted 24/02/2015 at 06:28:05
Don't know what these 3 are on about? There is no problem, our genius of a manager says so. At the moment he says we are playing with incredible character, and in our side we have the "great leader" Tim Howard, and the "unstoppable" Romelu Lukaku. Add "the greatest talent England has ever seen" in Ross Barkley and surely this season we will come with a late run for the CL places? After all, as our manager keeps saying we have turned the corner now haven't we?

Seriously though, I see this as the players trying to get a message to the fans that they are aware of the bullshit the manager spouts in the press, and that despite his shite, they know it isn't good enough, they just have the nuts to say what Martinez won't.

Tony Farrell
17 Posted 24/02/2015 at 06:23:23
Grinning Bill will not get rid of bumbling Bob till maybe the end of the season; even then thereĂ‚’s a doubt because it will cost us a pretty penny to oust bob and the wiginetts Iam sure the players wanted to speak there mind at the start of the season ,the fans certainly did the style of play does not suit our players, there not happy ,were not happy Can someone please explain to me why he defends players who have fucked up [tim howard ] has cost us so many points over his time with us ,yet time and time again he sticks by him Not just him but his garbage after every game is sickening . He is not an Everton manager.
Plato Stavrinos
18 Posted 24/02/2015 at 08:15:23
Firstly I reckon if it wasn't for Howard blunders we would have won the game against Leicester but I must say watching the game on telly, as far away as South Africa, you get a sense that the energy coming from the fans is very tense and nervous especially when we concede. I am sure this is affecting the players.

Last year was different in that we were always confident of coming back after conceding first.


Allan Board
19 Posted 24/02/2015 at 08:41:55
Not half as frustrating as being a supporter, Leighton. Just be quiet and do your talking on the pitch.
Eddie Dunn
20 Posted 24/02/2015 at 08:39:26
I agree Brian 14. We lost momentum on that night, and Robles took a step backwards too.

The players are unhappy, not many like the boss, and don't trust him. ( I know this for a fact) Martinez is a liar, and wont be honest with the players or the fans.
He hasn't come out and apologised and accepted liability for any of the blunders that he is responsible for.
We will only get the full picture when his tenure is over. I feel that he won't be thought of as such a nice guy when it all comes out.

James Martin
21 Posted 24/02/2015 at 08:45:28
Same old same old, they've been banging this drum for years. It used to be Neville with the old 'we'll move on to the next game to put it right' now its Baines and Naismith who seem to be the media fronts for the group. When will they realise they have to put it right the first time? It's not just winning the odd few more games at Goodison. It's winning home and away consistently to challenge for the champions league places seriously. The players are just not in that mindset. Always making excuses but never actually performing on the pitch. Then again they don't answer to anyone, bumper contracts despite not winning anything and a manager who picks them regardless of form or fitness. Happy days.
Max Murphy
22 Posted 24/02/2015 at 08:49:11
Everton legend Neville Southall has recently announced in public that Robles should continue between the sticks. Clearly he is not happy with RM's selection process.
I know 2 other Everton legends have also voiced their concern, during an 'informal' interview about the manager's tactics, which is having a detrimental affect on players' confidence and their general play.
Former players are concerned, current players are concerned and practically all Evertonians are concerned. The only person who appears unaware of his diabolical tactics, ridiculous selction procedure and embarrassing public image, is Roberto Martinez.
David Harrison
23 Posted 24/02/2015 at 09:08:28
What happened to the phenomenal 2nd half of the season?
Mick MacManus
24 Posted 24/02/2015 at 09:15:53
The writing was on the wall throughout last season. The thin winning margins week in week out masked our inherent weaknesses throughout the season, when many opponents spurned great chances which our tactical set-up gifted them. In other words, we were in a much inflated league position last year through a combination of luck, gung-ho attacking and the fresh approach of a new manager which gave the whole club a lift at the time. We flattered ourselves. Teams know how to play against us now in the EPL (not so much in Europe) and our one track approach is our weakness.
Ross Edwards
25 Posted 24/02/2015 at 09:24:09
Hmm. Lukaku coming out a few weeks ago saying that the players lobbying for a new playing style, Baines, Naismith and McCarthy saying that we haven't been good enough.

Meanwhile in cloud cuckoo land, Roberto still maintains that we've played well for the majority of the season.

Players fed up with the manager? Sounds like it doesn't it?

Tony Hill
26 Posted 24/02/2015 at 09:19:31
I think it's significant that two of our most intelligent and honourable players in Baines and Naismith (and I suspect McCarthy is cut from the same cloth) have broken cover, at least to some extent. I believe that these players have the interests of the club very much at heart and it is refreshing to hear them speak in this way.

Yes, it's a bit broad brush and there is nothing concrete in their comments, but it's a start. As others have noted, I think Martinez would do himself an enormous favour by abandoning his mindless, all-purpose optimism and telling the truth. That is the way properly to respect his players and the fans - it doesn't have to be panicky or inappropriately critical but it should be honest.

Denis Richardson
27 Posted 24/02/2015 at 09:23:57
Not sure why people reckon Leicester came to 'frustrate' us. They actually attacked us quite a bit and created a fair few decent chances.

Our stupidly slow build up play allowed them to get everyone back behind the ball when they lost possession. Had nothing to do with them parking any buses. If we pass the ball faster we wouldn't have this issue....

Ross Edwards
28 Posted 24/02/2015 at 09:27:28
Andy Gray, Big Nev voicing their concerns, now the players are voicing their frustration ranging from anger at our form to hinting at moves.

Either Martinez is so desperate to protect the club and the players from criticism or he is so inept and clueless that he can't see that his repetitive tactics have been long exposed.

David Harrison
29 Posted 24/02/2015 at 09:18:36
Just like all the other also rans we've become a mish mash of a squad without any real back bone. In the same way Sunderland are pinning all their hopes on squeezing the last dregs of Defoe's talent, we've tried and failed with Eto'o and scrabbled about the bargain basement with Atsu and Lennon. There is a lack of permanence about the whole thing- indeed our rocks of permanence are now getting older. Roberto, work out who is worth keeping, bin the rest and IDENTIFY those that can add for the next few years, as to your credit you did with Besic, rather than just take a punt. If I had more time I'd give you some suggestions but I already have another job. You just need to do yours a bit better
Jonathan Benn
30 Posted 24/02/2015 at 09:33:08
Don't get the criticism of the manager. He made changes very early on and they made a difference.

Players are to blame. Lukaku had 5 clear chances on Sunday, he should bury at least 2 of them. Why shouldn't you expect one of the best goalkeepers in the league to catch a cross? Players all need to try and grow a pair, stop panicking and see out a match.

Thursdays team: Howard, Coleman, Alcaraz, Jagielka, Baines, Gibson, Besic, Naismith, Atsu, Kone, Mirallas

Declan Martin
31 Posted 24/02/2015 at 10:04:03
There should definitely be a place for Gibson in the side.
This constant passing across the back is pointless unless it ends up with somebody being able to give a telling and incisive pass forward. Otherwise the West Broms and Leicesters will come to Goodison, set up shop, and the outcome will be the same as Sunday
James Martin
34 Posted 24/02/2015 at 10:41:38
Jonathan it is partly the managers fault because he's created a bit of a 'who cares' attitude amongst the players in the premier league (despite what Baines and Naismith are coming out with). They are all assured of their spot in the starting lineup regardless of how they perform. That is why in the two games mentioned with a tiny bit more effort we could have had 6 points easily from West Brom and Leicester at home. Instead Mirallas swanned a penalty off target and Lukaku laughed at all the fans with his hopeless finishing. When it comes to Europe though and all the players are playing for number 1 the big I am they are happy to perform there, no such concerns. The foot is not pressed hard enough down on the throat. Mourinho, Simeone or even Moyes would have flayed these players until they started to take each game seriously and perform week in week out. It is a purely mental problem. The players are just turning out for the premier league almost apathetic, there's no effort, and that's when you get poor finishing and poor concentration. They are not coming under enough pressure from Martinez. He cannot drag out that extra 10% that is al in the head that the top managers can. He gives the players too much rope but none of them are top players, they cannot moderate their own performance without constant instruction from their manager. Even with Chelsea you saw this. For Hiddink, Di Matteo, Scolari, Villas Boas, Avram Grant, Benitez you saw almost the same group of players getting nowhere near the title (even finishing outside the top 4!) yet could still win FA cup after FA cup, the champions league and the Europa League. They were world class players who knew how to perform regardless of manager but still would not maintain that intensity in thee league because they could not be bothered, they played for themselves in the cups instead. As soon as Mourinho brought his whip out and put his foot back on their throats funnily enough they returned to challenge for the title immediately and will probably win it this season, all because they now have a manager who will not accept mental let up in any game. We don't. We have one who foolishly thinks that a simple 'go and enjoy your football' is enough for players to perform at the top level. Not these Everton players, they are not good enough for that. They need to be dictated to within an inch of their lives.
John Gartland
36 Posted 24/02/2015 at 11:23:22
I never ever heard anyone moaning about the boring football we had to watch for 11 years under Moyes. Give RM a chance. I think he will get it right. At least he has not made us laughing stock in Europe, as Moyes did.
Paul Dark
37 Posted 24/02/2015 at 11:42:53
I wonder what the players really do think of Roberto and his happy ideology.

Just saw the post-match interview with Atsu. He really is a dignified, well-spoken young man in the Everton traditions. I think his performances at AfCon were an embarrassment to RM. If Atsu had been given a chance to play and gain match practice instead of the extremely sub-standard McGeady, I wonder how many more points we would have now.

I really can't get away from the fact that Martinez makes one tactical and man-management error after another. He's a very flat-footed manager. He seems a decent enough man, but I fear he isn't the right man to take us forward. He is outwitted by almost all PL managers he comes up against, many of whom are not the sharpest tools in the box themselves (Hughes, Bruce, Allardyce et al).

Tony Hill
38 Posted 24/02/2015 at 11:43:43
I think what you say, James, is probably true of the vast majority of footballers. The lack of rigorous leadership has been Martinez's undoing this season and will, in my view, eventually finish him with us entirely, even with Kenwright's indulgence.

I think you also hit upon why we have performed so well in the EL this year but not in the PL. I was hugely encouraged after last Thursday and thought (as I did after the WHU cup games and after Man City) that the players had regained respect for Martinez and the desire to keep winning. Not so, I fear.

I do think Baines and Naismith are genuine enough characters (unlike other poseurs we have) but you are right that no team does well with a posturing manager.

Adam Luszniak
39 Posted 24/02/2015 at 11:47:11
The players must shoulder a certain amount of blame, as must the manager. The latter did well to realise that Besic and Mcarthy together did not have the passing range to move the game forward. To this end he brought Gibson on, and also played Atsu, Mirallas and Lennon in the same team as I recall.

Problem is he also put Howard back in goal who was at fault for both goals in my opinion.

Lukaku could have had another hatrick if he wanted but spurned most of his chances.

Harold Matthews
40 Posted 24/02/2015 at 11:22:34
Quite right Bainsey lad. When you cut inside try getting the ball forward with your right foot instead of using your left to pass it 20 yards back to Jags........and Naisey mate. We know you work your socks off but try to put your brain in gear when you make a pass.

Macca. I believe we're the worst in the league at standing off and letting people cross or shoot. Have a word with the fullbacks and fellow midfielders please. It's terrible to watch.

Mr Martinez. A major reason why the mob next door are doing well is the fact that Brenda has no favourites. If a player can't do the job he doesn't play. You ought to try it sometime. He also altered his whole system when it was obviously not working.

Oscar Huglin
42 Posted 24/02/2015 at 12:00:32
I guarantee this has come from Martinez finally giving them a good dressing down after the Leicester game. ItĂ‚’s no coincidence that the playersĂ‚’ interviews have suddenly become "This is not good enough" after being "The signs are there, we just need to do this, blah blah blah" for months.

I welcome this change. No point kidding ourselves - if we play like that for the rest of the season then the top half is out of our reach... Which is ridiculous.

Bring on Arsenal.

David Hallwood
43 Posted 24/02/2015 at 11:46:45
Can't agree with Brian Porter(14) because over the years I've seen Fergie, Wenger et al have done the same thing; use dead rubbers, or the League Cup to blood youngsters in or give a game and valuable European/cup experience to fringe players.

IMHO, the malaise was from the off with poor pre-season, fitness levels and schoolboy howlers, the chief culprit being the bearded one. All of the factors have sapped the confidence out of the team.

Joe Foster
44 Posted 24/02/2015 at 12:14:00
Just on different management styles Moyes recently turned down some punditry because he thought he was needed more back with his club to fit in double training sessions. Don't get me wrong I think it was time for OFM to leave but it s a little window into his mind set
Chris Gould
45 Posted 24/02/2015 at 12:07:21
When you play 2 deep lying defensive midfielders at home you are never going to be penetrative enough. The defenders pass the ball amongst themselves and then play it 5 yards to a DM. It's painfully slow. The DM, who isn't a ball player, then does what he does best, he passes it sideways or backwards.
When we played QPR at home we had one DM and Barkley who had one of his best games. On Sunday we were far more threatening when Gibson came on because he is a ball player. He can pick a pass.
Play two DM's who can't pick a pass and we will continue to be pedestrian.
Tony J Williams
46 Posted 24/02/2015 at 13:15:54
I'm more with Jonathan Benn on this one.

Martinez (and us) was let down by two players on Sunday. His keeper and his striker.

Had both done their jobs properly we would have won comfortably.

He made the change early and we scored, unfortunately the dope in goal decided to screw it all up.....by being a dope.

The dope up front left his European boots in the changies and looked like a £2.80 striker instead of a £28m one.

Anthony Flack
47 Posted 24/02/2015 at 13:16:33
They or course cannot say what they think - hopefully it is something like -

the oppositions most dangerous player is our keeper and our main striker could hit his own arse with a banjo

I thought McCarthy looked a bit despondent in the second half and let his head go down

John Hughes
48 Posted 24/02/2015 at 13:50:02
Tony #49 - hear what you say but then who picked the dope in goal when he's got a better option sitting on the bench?
Roger Helm
49 Posted 24/02/2015 at 14:06:08
The problem is Martinez is such a stubborn man. He has one system of play and sticks to it regardless no matter who we are playing. He picks his favourites week in and week out even when they are out of form. Why was Lukaku left on for 90 minutes when he was having a mare? How many points does Howard have to cost us before he realises his sell-by date is gone?

I agree no-one takes him seriously in interviews. He would get more respect if he said it like it was. Eddie (20), how do you know for a fact he is losing the dressing room?

Joe Foster
50 Posted 24/02/2015 at 14:25:51
Frustrated fan admits:"it's not good enough"
Tony J Williams
51 Posted 24/02/2015 at 14:44:30
I agree John, but like most managers, his number one goalie will generally always walk back into the side and the goals conceded against Chelski and Young Boys weren't sufficient enough proof to drop him.

The Chelsea goal was a deflection and the Young Boys one was a great shot from a striker who had loads of time to pick a spot and he was wrong footed.

He played well in the two games albeit conceding in both.

Gavin Johnson
52 Posted 24/02/2015 at 14:45:25
Martinez's interviews are now as predictable as his team selection and the 4-2-3-1 formation. My big bug bear at the moment is not the way the same adjectives are thrown in to try and make us believe all is well, but how can he still be smiling after seeing us draw that game on Sunday.

This is pretty novel to me because we had two dour Scotsman for the best part of 15 years previously. While I'm not saying Martinez is worse than the other two (I still remember his achievements from last season) Moysie and Smith always convinced me that they shouldered the blame in post match interviews, when we had been on the receiving end of a good hiding... I'm not sure Martinez does though.

Tony Abrahams
53 Posted 24/02/2015 at 14:40:34
Good thread with some very good opinions. I think HaroldĂ‚’s last paragraph of #40 nails it for me.
Whereas Rogers changed a system that wasnĂ‚’t working, Martinez, changes his system, so he can play certain players. Baines, for all his efforts, is so isolated from his team mates itĂ‚’s making him look bad. Simply because we donĂ‚’t put anyone in front of him, to play with.
WouldnĂ‚’t be so bad if Leighton wasnĂ‚’t the best at a one-two In our team!
Mike Childs
54 Posted 24/02/2015 at 14:58:11
Excellent post James Martin. Harold as always with the simple solutions that seem so alien to ones who need to hear them.
Christopher Wallace
55 Posted 24/02/2015 at 12:13:45
Eddie 20 re Krasnador games

"I agree Brian 14. We lost momentum on that night, and Robles took a step backwards too."

Can you explain why you think Robles took a step back after this game. I know he had made a howler in this game, but that was before he came in as an injury replacement and acquitted his elf very well, with several clean sheets.

Gavin Johnson
56 Posted 24/02/2015 at 15:33:40
Harold, a great post there. I think you've summed up what a lot of us have been thinking. While it's painful to admit that we need to follow the same suit as the other lot. There seems to be no other reason why we haven't been able to make a similar transition, apart from favouritism and Martinez's sheer bloody mindedness.
Kevin Rowlands
58 Posted 24/02/2015 at 15:27:31
It’s actually quite refreshing to see and hear that these lads understand it’s not good enough and hasn’t been all season, can’t agree that the Krasnodor game was a step back though, we had already won the group and for all Martinez’s faults which there are many, playing the youngsters was the right thing to do, can you imagine if he had played a strong side and a couple of them picked up serious injuries in a nothing game? he’d have been crucified. I actually enjoyed seeing Ledson, McAleny and Dowell given a run out and getting a glimpse of the future.
David Hallwood
59 Posted 24/02/2015 at 15:12:36
Sorry Tony(#51) you're missing the bit before the deflection in the Chelsea game. The ball was crossed at a catchable height and he chose to punch it.(with no conviction) straight to the player.

Ok there was a lot of players between him and the ball, but the man is six foot Bleedin four and is a part time cage fighter. So anyone standing there should've been on the ground counting stars. I've seen all the great gks do it. Sadly Howard is one of them

James Martin
60 Posted 24/02/2015 at 16:14:00
David I'm not sure what height Howard is but I would wager it's not 6 foot 4. He is too short for the premier league simple as that. When you ally that to poor positioning you get a lot of these so called 'unsaveable goals' flying past him. When you look at them though, Gerrard's derby free kick being the perfect example, the shot is in the middle of the goal at a decent height. Howard's initial position is too far over so even with a ful stretch dive he can't get it but it looks as though he's been beaten by a worldy. Good keepers are a bit like good defenders, they are in the right position so you don't see them flying across the goal at every single free kick. I'd wager that Robles would have simply caught Gerrard's free kick. He would have caught the cross leading up to the Chelsea goal, he owuld have dealt with both v Leicester and he probably would have kept out the Young Boys one as well. Again, Howard has done a full length dive and is nowhere near his post by the time he's finished it. The ball could have been a foot in and still beaten him. Poor positioning and too short sadly. Every time you see Courtois or Cech or Begovic making a finger tip save you have to stop and realise Howard won't make that and that's a goal against us. Even if he was in the right position (which he won't be), if these guys who are 6 foot 4 are making a fingertip save, Howard is not getting it, sad but true, bit like the way you can't have a centreback under 6 foot anymore, why should keepers be any different? Schmeicael, Kahn, Neuer, Southall, Van Der Sar. What do they all have in common?

Basically you know your goalkeeper needs changing when you can call a goal on a direct free kick before the player has even taken it because his positioning is wrong. Even just myself before Suarez's in the derby, Gerrard's in the derby and Wolfsburg's free kick this season I said 'if this gets over the wall its in'. It shouldn't be that way. Free kicks should be absolute belters right in the postage stamp, not any old bent shot that happens to make it over the wall.

Bill Gall
61 Posted 24/02/2015 at 16:28:37
Glad to hear some of the players showing concern but I believe the headline should have been "30,000 Everton supporters complain Its Not Good Enough "
Neil Pickering
62 Posted 24/02/2015 at 16:46:58
James @60 absolutely blob on there mate and something I'd never even considered.
Phil Walling
63 Posted 24/02/2015 at 16:56:23
Think I'd rather hear the manager say it wasn't good enough and had kicked a few arses. He doesn't have to name names but could talk about the joint responsibility to the fans.

I suspect they see him as a soft touch, craving their adoration. He's going the wrong way about it as they will test him to the limit !

Steven Telford
64 Posted 24/02/2015 at 16:37:25
The most worrying apart, is not that we are failing to adapt/evolve - but that Martinez fails to even acknowledge the need to change anything.
Kevin Rowlands
65 Posted 24/02/2015 at 16:57:35
Good post JM #60, very good analogy of Howard’s glaring weaknesses, I have to laugh when he’s described as a good shot blocker, it’s a joke, he’s nowhere near good enough to be starting in the EPL. I really hope that, as someone has previously noted, the Leicester game was his Phil Neville/Wigan wake up call, and he decides to finish his career in the MLS, that’s about his standard now, or the commentary booth with NBC.

Unfortunately though the Howard problem might not go away so easy seeing soft bollocks decided to give him a 3 year extension so it’s going to cost us to get rid. I think I’ll blow a gasket if he’s in the team on Thursday!

Teddy Bertin
66 Posted 24/02/2015 at 17:12:47
God it's depressing on here sometimes
Brian Harrison
67 Posted 24/02/2015 at 17:09:26
I think Leightons comments are very revealing into the mood of the team right now. He says that we have been unable to break teams down ie teams that get men behind the ball, and then he goes on to say that although they have tried it doesnt seem to work and hasnt worked all season.

Now if that isn't a cryptic message to fans to say RM hasn't a clue how we get passed a packed defence and hasn't come up with a system to break it down all season. Yes the players quoted are also saying that collectively performances haven't been good enough, but I think the more important message is the lack of ideas from the manager. Now yes even under OFM players came out at times and said the performance wasnt good enough but I cant remember anyone questioning the managers tactics as Baines comments do.

James Hughes
68 Posted 24/02/2015 at 17:18:05
I am reading on BBC how Barca have ditched tika -taka and are focussing on get the the ball forward , and to feet, as quickly as possible. ( it mentions rat boy, sorry)

Is there something we could learn there perhaps,maybe, possibly ?

Phil Walling
69 Posted 24/02/2015 at 17:22:17
Maybe, Teddy. But not half as depressing as watching this team play !
Ray Robinson
70 Posted 24/02/2015 at 17:21:06
james, I'd add to Howard's weaknesses that a) he seems scared of diving towards the posts and b) he's lost a bit of bravery - seems scared of getting hurt these days.
Eddie Dunn
71 Posted 24/02/2015 at 17:17:37
Roger 49. A close friend of mine works with an ex-Everton player of recent vintage, I can't name him, but he does punditry. He says that the players don't trust Martinez, he is two-faced and a bullshitter.
This is cast-iron, and just confirms what many of us suspected.
Christopher55. I meant that Robles confidence took a hit in the Krasnodar game, but I agree that when he came in after Howard's injury that he grew in confidence.
I feel sorry for the lad, it was a big mistake bringing back Howard.

Jay Harris
72 Posted 24/02/2015 at 16:04:30
The problem is not Sunday.

Sunday was just another example of how far our standards have dropped.

And may I correct an earlier poster the problems have been just as evident away from home in the league.

The only thing I want Martinez to come out in public and say is that he has just resigned.

At this stage there is no recovery under this manager.

The players and the fans have had enough of this total ineptitude and bullshit and no examination of which player made a mistake and the supporters contribution to the situation will wash.

"Phenominal Bobby" needs to go away and reassess his football philosophy because there isn't one club he has managed that hasn't done better under other managers.

Eddie Dunn
73 Posted 24/02/2015 at 17:34:52
James60. Neville Southall is nearly 6ft1in, well he was back in the 80's, but I dare say he has shrunk a bit in recent years.

I like your point about the keepers, but a smaller goalie with a big spring can make the difference.
Shay Given is also 6ft 1 or 2, although he did look smaller on tv!
It is interesting watching the women's football that so many goals are scored from long range in the top corners. The goals are just too big for the slightly shorter ladies. ( I think that is is daft to have men's goals for them)

Naismith, who isn't tall, wins countless headers all over the park, whilst Lukaku often fails to get off the ground.

James, the other thing about a lot of those free kicks was the poorly set walls. Little guys(like Pienaar) on the ends (and moving to boot!)
I often despair at Howard setting his wall- but I do recall 3 or 4 years ago, him flying through the air to tip a free kick over in several games.
Perhaps he has lost his "spring"?

Kevin Rowlands
74 Posted 24/02/2015 at 17:46:49
Eddie, that’s pretty worrying stuff if true and certainly explains a lot the problems we have witnessed this season. We are one knockout away in the Europa from this season being a complete disaster. I really fear relegation at this point, when Martinez made the Howard/Robles change that was the end for me, he has to go.
Aidy Dews
75 Posted 24/02/2015 at 18:06:42
We’ve had it all season. Hearing player after player come out and say the same shit is like hearing a cheating bird saying they won’t do it again and ay oh, they go and do it again!

If you mean what you say, do summat about it then!

Ray Roche
76 Posted 24/02/2015 at 18:13:41
Howard is 6ft 3ins according to his Wiki page.
David Hallwood
77 Posted 24/02/2015 at 17:43:52
James Martin (#60) according to google, Howard is 1.91 metres or 6' 3 1/2"; yes I'm that sad.

Btw great analysis of Howard, I think he lacks the concentration needed to be a great goalie.

David Hallwood
78 Posted 24/02/2015 at 17:43:52
James Martin (#60) according to google, Howard is 1.91 metres or 6' 3 1/2"; yes I'm that sad.

Btw great analysis of Howard, I think he lacks the concentration needed to be a great goalie.

Peter McHugh
79 Posted 24/02/2015 at 18:12:01
Howard had a terrible game although I think he played well against Chelsea and Young Boys. I don’t share same confidence about Robles as others do although Ido think Martinez has a massive decision now.

The biggest disappointment to me by far this season is not Martinez, Lukaku, Barry or the team or tactics. It is Ross Barkley. Martinez is partly to blame with heaping pressure on him and playing him out of position.

However, Ross must shoulder most of the blame. He does fuck all puts in no effort and just wanders through games. It’s not even that he doesn’t tackle but he doesn’t move or track back at all.

He’s being a complete lazy bastard and I would accept that ( begrudgingly) if he was putting in world class performances every week going forward but I haven’t seen him have one good game this season. Unless he has something going on in his personal life that we don’t know about then there is no excuse.

For someone of his talent, stature and ability it’s an absolute disgrace to the shirt. I don’t boo my own players but I couldn’t wait to see the back of him on Sunday. He needs to be dropped and given an almighty kick up the arse.

Gavin Johnson
80 Posted 24/02/2015 at 18:17:18
On the back of our Europa form I'm praying for some kind of miracle that we win it. Many on here might say it sounds crazy, but I have no fear of us playing any of the European sides, only the domestic ones (RS and Spurs) and still think we could go all the way if we avoid those two.

If the Europa dream doesn't happen, it's fair to say that Roberto will be gone at the end of the season. There's plenty of managers that would love the job. Slaven Bilic could be one. I did wonder if the "Everton are big enough to win the league" quote the other week was Bilic putting himself in the frame if Martinez does get the elbow in the summer.

Kevin Rowlands
81 Posted 24/02/2015 at 18:45:32
Lukaku’s wiki page states that he is 6ft 3ins, anyone think that him and Howard are the same height? Howard is about 6ft tops.
John Atkins
82 Posted 24/02/2015 at 19:33:40
Sat watching Citeh on ITV and listening to our Manager

Just cant take the man seriously anymore

Eddie Dunn
83 Posted 24/02/2015 at 20:06:24
Peter;79, Concerning Ross, I wonder why Moyes had little faith? Martinez has tried him in various roles and does not seem to know what to do with him. Also, did you see the England bus in Brazil holding up all the traffic for ages at rush hour, and then our Ross saunters out late! At the biggest stage in the world!
Makes you wonder what is going on upstairs?
Peter McHugh
84 Posted 24/02/2015 at 20:20:52
Hi Eddie I don’t draw comparisons about Moyes because I don’t think he was a great manager either! I know a lot of people rated him but I never did - I thought he was good but inflated opinion of himself like a lot of our players!

Ross has shown to me that he is a very good player. However unless RM has said do fuck all (which McGeady alluded to one time) I just don’t understand why this season he doesn’t even try

Dave Lynch
85 Posted 24/02/2015 at 20:25:39
I know what you mean john@82.
I'm waiting to hear what bollox he comes out with at half time.
The more I hear and look at him the more distant I have for him, he would make a great snake oil salesman that's for sure.
Tony McNulty
86 Posted 24/02/2015 at 20:29:16
After this, he'll be even more convinced that Barcelona's way is the way to play. That's OK when you have Iniesta and Messi in the team ... things are bit harder when you return to base camp and are working with the honest endeavour of Tony H and one or two others.
Phil Walling
87 Posted 24/02/2015 at 20:30:50
Peter, I think we all see 'a very good player' in Ross Barkley but why is it that NO manager - Moyes, Hodgson nor Martinez can really get him to perform ?
Matt Butlin
88 Posted 24/02/2015 at 20:38:31
Glad to see Roberto in Manchester, scouting out potential signings.
Oliver Molloy
89 Posted 24/02/2015 at 20:36:11
Howard made a bullocks of their 2nd goal, but Baines should have done better to stop the cross in the first place.

The whole team are responsible along with the manager for results on the field..
As for all Barkley hype, I just can not see what others seem to see!

Colin Glassar
90 Posted 24/02/2015 at 20:40:32
Messi, Neymar and sewer rat are all being lined up by BK as we write Matt.
John Keating
91 Posted 24/02/2015 at 20:43:01
Have we sold Howard to Dortmund ?????
Sid Logan
92 Posted 24/02/2015 at 20:34:17
Barcelona's brilliant performance against City will only serve to confirm to Martinez that he mustn't change his beliefs.

Do you adapt a system to the players you have or do require the players to play to the system you believe in?

It depends I suppose on whether you're a pragmatist or a romantic.

Matt Butlin
93 Posted 24/02/2015 at 20:43:29
Haha... You know it's true Colin.
Paul Tran
94 Posted 24/02/2015 at 20:42:11
Phil, we all want to see a good player in Barkley. We've had a few players in the last few years who look good for a brief period, then fade markedly. Just like the view that Everton is a 'graveyard' for strikers. We're very quick to blame the manager, whether he's called Moyes or Martinez. Maybe these players just aren't good enough to sustain their form, they're not as good as we hope they're going to be?
Eddie Dunn
95 Posted 24/02/2015 at 20:42:11
Martinez just agreed with Scholes that City playing 4-4-2, was giving Barca too much ascendency in midfield!
We wont see 4-4-2 this season.
Kone, get the Xbox.
Eddie Dunn
96 Posted 24/02/2015 at 20:42:11
Martinez just agreed with Scholes that City playing 4-4-2, was giving Barca too much ascendency in midfield!
We wont see 4-4-2 this season.
Kone, get the Xbox.
Ross Edwards
97 Posted 24/02/2015 at 20:50:45
Sid, you actually need the players to implement the philosophy successfully.
Sid Logan
98 Posted 24/02/2015 at 20:53:39
Ross that's right. So what do you do if you don't have the players who can successfully play your system?

A pragmatic manager adapts his system to the players he has. What you don't do is continue to flog to death a system that clearly isn't working for the team.

And when you're really up against it - as we are- you abandon the system and do whatever is necessary to get 3 points. I know from comments you've made here that you probably agree with me.

Craig Mills
99 Posted 24/02/2015 at 19:54:40
Peter@79, 100% agree, I posted a very similar post last night, any potential Barkley had to be a great is fast disappearing with his general lack of effort, quality and desire becoming more evident with every appearance he put in. He needs taking out of the team, getting some fitness back and starting again next season
Wayne Smyth
100 Posted 24/02/2015 at 20:41:02
Phil, young players rarely perform consistently, especially attacking players doing the most difficult job in football, and especially playing in a team who are playing to-a-man like complete shite.

He's also spent a few months injured, then mostly played out wide. People need to give him a break and give him proper support. The same for Lukaku. I'm just watching the far more experienced Bony unable to kick a fucking football, so perhaps we need to get of Lukaku's back until he regains his confidence. Even after having a shite season he should be on for 20 goals so thats not too bad.

Quite frankly between Howard Jagielka and Distin they have between them been largely responsible for our awful form. Their individual mistakes have been responsible for setting the shitty tone for many of our performances.

The writing was on the wall against Leicester when Howard sliced the ball into touch then had a bit of a laugh about it. If thats how you go about your job it's no wonder you continually fuck up.

Martinez has also made quite a few errors of judgement, including in the summer transfer window and decisions such as the one to reinstate Howard, or persisting in playing players out of position even when he had options.

I think most of us agree that Robles is the keeper in form who deserves to be in the side, but equally virtually everyone was calling Martinez an idiot for signing him in the first place. We are all geniuses in hindsight.

Ross Edwards
101 Posted 24/02/2015 at 21:32:17
I do agree Sid. I think he is far too stubborn and inflexible.
Tony McNulty
102 Posted 24/02/2015 at 21:33:02
Messi's first touch so reminds me of Lukaku.
Tony McNulty
103 Posted 24/02/2015 at 21:36:41
Even down to the headers
Nick Entwistle
104 Posted 24/02/2015 at 21:41:28
Made the whole game worth sitting through.
Colin Glassar
105 Posted 24/02/2015 at 21:38:15
I can see Ross and Lukaku moving on in the not too distant future and becoming absolute superstars.
I can just imagine all the wailing, crocodile tears and chest beating.
Kevin Rowlands
106 Posted 24/02/2015 at 21:41:57
Lol Tony 102, that Andy Hinchcliffe is an excellent co commentator btw, far better than any RS I’ve heard on TV.
Paul Tran
107 Posted 24/02/2015 at 21:44:10
Colin, I can see Barkley ending up like Rodwell and Lukaku making multiple moves around Europe frustrating his managers and making him and his agent rich.
Peter McHugh
108 Posted 24/02/2015 at 21:40:37
Phil - Moyes played Ross from the start he looked v good to me. I remember pre season games and then QPR at home. I missed Blackburn where I think he gave away a pen and then that was almost it. Barkley then had 2 mins every now and again until he started away at Arsenal & Spurs & he looked ace.

Martinez - last season he looked v good to me - clearly inexperienced so made plenty of mistakes but class.

Hodgson - personally I think he is an awful manager but has credentials in Media cos he worked as national manager for Switzerland and managed inter and is a clever man. Shit manager in my opinion.

Tony McNulty
110 Posted 24/02/2015 at 21:45:40
Kevin - sometimes there's a need for a quick recovery - egg face removal process
Colin Glassar
111 Posted 24/02/2015 at 21:48:21
Could go either way Paul but I think we might soon see.

Peter, I'm blaming Roy. Ever since he screamed at Ross, during his England cameo, for losing the ball the lad hasn't been the same.

Peter McHugh
112 Posted 24/02/2015 at 21:47:52
Wayne - I’ve given Ross a break all season. Agree with majority of points you say.

But can you explain why he doesn’t try anymore - surely that’s not down to confidence / lack of form but desire and commitment? Whilst manager can be partially blamed surely the main responsibility rests with Ross for these lack of attributes.

His attitude absolutely stinks at present and I don’t know what’s wrong with him and enough’s enough

Peter McHugh
113 Posted 24/02/2015 at 21:55:00
Haha he has been shit since then Colin. Perhaps he’s just a sensitive soul!
Paul Tran
114 Posted 24/02/2015 at 21:52:18
Colin, Barkley isn't a little boy, he's an adult. Quality players shouldn't need their hands holding in their early 20s. They make things happen, they change games....consistently. We all like having a pop at Gerrard, but compare him to Barkley at the same age.

Sorry, we all want him to be good, but he isn't delivering, he doesn't look like he's going to deliver. We've all seen plenty of players down the years who have all the ability in the world, but aren't able to put it together consistently. I hope I'm proved wrong, but Barkley is the latest of a long line.

Colin Glassar
115 Posted 24/02/2015 at 22:01:54
You might be right Paul, I hope you're wrong though. Something is definitely going on with this lad and I just hope it's sorted ASAP.
Paul Hewitt
117 Posted 24/02/2015 at 22:09:06
Please don't write Barkley off he WILL be a great player for us he has just lost all confidence at the moment.
Not helped by our manager playing him in a totally alien position out wide.
Paul Tran
118 Posted 24/02/2015 at 22:06:56
Good players play well in fits and starts, really good/great players are consistent and take games by the scruff of the neck. English players get over-hyped the moment they can run in a straight line. When push comes to shove they come up short.

Barkley is like most young English players. Plenty of ability, lack of mental resilience. Maybe that's what's 'going on',

Ray Roche
119 Posted 24/02/2015 at 22:17:38
Paul Tran, the fact that young players are "over-hyped the moment they can run in a straight line" is not really their fault. The British press like nothing more than to build someone up with the sole intent of knocking them down. Football, music, acting, I doubt if there is any branch of the arts or entertainment that has not, at some time, had it's brightest stars suffer in that way. After all, it sells newspapers.

Paul Hewitt is correct, Barkley will be a great player for some team, but I have my doubts it'll be Everton, unless we can find a manager that can use his undoubted ability in the best way. He didn't look too shabby last season, did he?

Trevor Peers
120 Posted 24/02/2015 at 22:12:30
We cant wait for Barkley to find some form. He's had his chance, trumped up by the media and the manager as something really special it just hasn't worked out. Next season our priority must be to buy a class playmaker the role which Barkley was supposed to deliver this season.
Paul Tran
121 Posted 24/02/2015 at 22:24:22
Ray, of course you're right, it's not their fault. Players are often over-hyped because we just want them to be good. He did look great last season, but as I've mentioned, we've seen plenty of players look good for a year, then go off the boil markedly.

Martinez looked good last season, but it hasn't stopped him getting stick this season. Maybe they both have talent and just can't apply it consistently?

Tom Bowers
122 Posted 24/02/2015 at 22:22:53
Got to admit that Ross is only playing in fits and starts and that wouldnĂ‚’t be too bad if he was helping himself to a few goals. Everton have very few shots from range and prefer to work it too intricately until getting to Lukakuu who by that time is outnumbered.

True Rom. should have had a goal against the Foxes but Everton cannot play the passing game quickly enough even against Leicester who are bottom. With Lennon and Coleman they have to play on the break and make it count but they didnĂ‚’t against Leicester and against many other teams this season.

ItĂ‚’s time to start Atsu who seems to be ready to impress along with one or two others. If RM doesnĂ‚’t show some guts then itĂ‚’s going to be more of the same until May.

Paul Hewitt
123 Posted 24/02/2015 at 22:40:39
Trevor your being very harsh mate its only his second full season.With a good manager you will see how good this lad is.
Tony Hill
124 Posted 24/02/2015 at 22:40:50
I think he is hugely talented but has developed a crippling mental block, for whatever reason. It's a woeful sight to see. I hope he can get out of this mess or that someone at the club has the understanding to manage him out of it.

Too many shrewd and objective commentators were praising him last season for it to have been hype. Besides, we could all see his abilities couldn't we? This season he is a shell of himself.

Trevor Peers
125 Posted 24/02/2015 at 22:44:27
I am not not suggesting we sell him Paul I just think we are desperate for a controlling figure in the centre of the field and who knows Ross may benefit from that. Everyone seen how much better it was on Sunday when Gibson came on.
Kevin Rowlands
126 Posted 24/02/2015 at 22:49:08
I remember seeing Ross for the first time vs Valencia in a pre season game in Miami a couple of years ago and thinking he was outstanding, I’m still in the glass half full camp but he really needs to learn that sometimes 100mph needs to be slowed down to 20mph, I still have high hopes for him.
David Hallwood
128 Posted 24/02/2015 at 23:33:00
BTW, Alan Ball was winning a World Cup at 21.
Brian Wilkinson
129 Posted 24/02/2015 at 23:52:08
How can the Europa League be affecting league results? Roll back to 85 when we won the Cup Winners Cup, got to the final of the FA Cup, and still won the league with almost the same 11 players.

Two games in a week too much? Try doing a 40-hour-a-week shift on a building site for a salary less than one week's wage of a footballer.

If players cannot play 2 games a week for 180 minutes, that's 3 hours of a normal day's job, then change your profession.

One thing I will guarantee: he will play Howard on Thursday, there's no way he will risk giving Robles a game; if he does and Robles plays well, how can he justify bringing Tim back for the Arsenal game?

Tony Draper
130 Posted 25/02/2015 at 00:02:26
Alan Ball.
Paul Gascoigne.
Matthew Le Tissier.
Trevor Brooking.

All English, all talented. not identical.

Ross Barkley was born a Blue.
He's already achieved 100% more than everyone on TW stacked together.

If Ross turns out to be a Blue Matt le Tiss, then I'll be delighted with that.
I'll always pray for more, but very happily accept that.

Frankly, a lot of people on TW really do need to take a bloody reality pill. If achieving success was a simple as desiring success then anyone with "EA Sports FIFA" would be the worlds best player/manager. Except that even in the plastic/electronic/virtual world as brilliant/perfect as you may be, the possibilty will always exist that someone/other exists or is developing who is better.

In the meantime, encourage the lad.
Go on, I dare you.

Cos I frequently wonder how well so many of us would fare in "EA Sports Fan" version ?
Hmm ?
Take a bloody look in the mirror.

Phil Walling
133 Posted 25/02/2015 at 00:49:52
Hey, Tony, not too many of us aspire to be players, we're too good as critics to do that! But the day we can't comment on a player's disappointing form is the day ToffeeWeb shuts down.

We don't need a mirror to hold a view and mine is that too many excuses are being made for this lad.

Mark Andersson
134 Posted 25/02/2015 at 00:27:10
Alan Ball at 21, great point; however, they where men; these days, theyĂ‚’re considered boys. They act like boys, with their playstations, iPods and fancy cars.

Send Ross to Brian (129) for a few weeks on the building site to man up. Ross will come good once he becomes a man!

IĂ‚’m not sure he will become world class, but if he does, I hope itĂ‚’s with Everton.

Ray Roche
135 Posted 25/02/2015 at 08:04:55
Phil Walling, comment on a young players disappointing season by all means, but don't scream abuse from the terraces until you're blue in the face. You have some way to go to convince me, and others, that that is the best way to get the best out of a player. I don't know what you do or did for a living but would it help you to solve a problem, hang a door, lay some bricks or whatever with some gobshite screeching in your ear?
Mark Andersson
136 Posted 25/02/2015 at 08:42:42
Have to agree Ray, sadly this is how it is. I would never berate anyone playing in blue, especially some one learning their trade. Yes they can drive you mad, but do it under your breath and save the energy on shouting positives.

I think Ross has been instructed not to tackle and save his energy for when he has the ball. Too many people want their cake and eat it, Naismith gets applaud for his work rate and slagged for his lack of technical ability.

My biggest question is how many of you think That Lakaku has improved any part of his game this season.

Andrew Clare
137 Posted 25/02/2015 at 08:53:41
We should get off the player's backs and support them fully.
The manager picks the team, buys the players, coaches them, decides on training schedules, tactics and makes the substitutions.The chairman and the board provide the financial backing.
Everton's problem is the Chairman and the board first and foremost.
They got it wrong.
Michael Penley
139 Posted 25/02/2015 at 09:09:39
Mark #134 - you're right. We'll know Ross is a Real Man when he starts getting drunk every night and cheating on his wife and beating his kids. Personally I'd prefer Martinez approach, letting him be himself and accepting that he might take a bit longer than some completely unrelated footballer from the 60s.
Sam Hoare
140 Posted 25/02/2015 at 09:17:30
I think the biggest thing that could help Barkley is a reduction in expectation. Martinez saying that he was going to be England's best ever player was staggeringly stupid and unhelpful. Ross looks burdened down at the moment by something and i'd wager its the fact that everyone is expecting him to do these wondrous things whereas actually he's better off just keeping it simple and working his socks off. If anything he has gone backwards this season.

Tony Hill
141 Posted 25/02/2015 at 09:50:00
Sam, I think there's much truth in what you say. People have said he's not trying but, in fact, he's trying too hard to be brilliant. His brilliance is instinctive and he can't make it happen through force of will.

Get the simple things right, loosen up and build from there. We should all be praying he comes through this because I think that Barkley does indeed have the potential to be one of the great players for us and England - though I entirely agree Martinez should never have said so.

Col Wills
142 Posted 25/02/2015 at 09:07:17
" We've got a diamond in Ross Barkley"

Diamonds need a bit of care and attention at times and can sometimes lose their sparkle, but will always have that quality.

remember that.

Ernie Baywood
143 Posted 25/02/2015 at 10:13:56
I don't particularly care what these players have to say. It's obvious they aren't expressing their own opinions... It's what the club thinks we want to hear from the players they think we want to hear it from. A popular scouser and two industrious scots.

I'd be more interested if Lukaku and Mirallas said it to the Belgian media.

Mick MacManus
144 Posted 25/02/2015 at 10:09:05
Spot on Tony Hill. It is not for lack of trying and effort that Ross isn't performing at what high level we think he is capable of.
Paul Dark
145 Posted 25/02/2015 at 12:24:02
I don't see a contradiction between being critical of the side and cheering them at GP. I do just that. I really think Luka and Ross need that, irrespective of their failings (which, by the way, in both cases are far outweighed by their pluses).

Everyone MUST get behind the team at Goodison.

Jimmy Kelly
146 Posted 25/02/2015 at 14:50:09
Will people please stop blaming the fans at Goodison for this mess.

I have a season ticket, I have done for 20 years. I now live in London, so I do a 5 hour round trip every time I come back for a game. With the season ticket, travel, away tickets and travel, and the odd European trip, I'll spend about £3-4k watching Everton this year. If I see a player fail to control a 5 yard pass, or a keeper allow a striker to powderpuff the ball past them at their near post, I reserve the right to have a bit of a grumble.

I don't boo, I don't scream abuse, but it's very hard for my negative energy not to transmit on to the pitch because absolutely everyhing I see is negative.

Tony, I think 99% of Everton fans would be overjoyed if Barkley turned out like Le Tissier. The problem we have is that he swans around like Le Tissier now, but he doesn't score 15 goals a season or score regular breathtaking goals like Le Tissier did. If you're not going to tackle or attempt to win headers, you need to score and assist a lot. He doesn't. The fans aren't being harsh on Ross, he's produced less magic this season than Bilyaletdinov used to and he used to get dogs abuse. The fact is, if you don't produce the goods, the fans will not sit quietly and sing you lullabies until you feel better, they'll give you a bit of stick. If he can't handle it, he'll fade away to obscurity.

Kevin Rowlands
147 Posted 25/02/2015 at 15:20:43
Martinez has just said in the pre match YB’s presser that Howard needs match fitness and will start on Thursday, I think my head is about to fucking explode!!!!!!
Phil Walling
148 Posted 25/02/2015 at 16:13:46
No doubt to give him another 'learning opportunity' !
Dave Abrahams
149 Posted 25/02/2015 at 16:12:50
Kevin, yes it has been confirmed that Howard will play tomorrow, I've been backing Martinez but that's it for me. If he can't see that Howard has gone then he doesn't deserve anyone's backing IMO.

It also means that Martinez has been playing a man who isn't match fit for the last three games,enough is more than enough for me now.

Phil Walling
150 Posted 25/02/2015 at 16:16:09
Col, I agree but it would be nice to see this diamond sparkle a little more than once or twice a season. Patience 'with kids' is fine but Ross gets away with murder in terms of his contribution to most matches he plays in.

Talented, brilliant, skilled or not, he is in danger of becoming a Tom Cleverley figure. And that would be a sin.

Jamie Barlow
151 Posted 25/02/2015 at 16:28:40
Tony Hill and Mick MacManus, I totally disagree. Its my view that he could easily get the crowd on his side if he did put more effort in. Naismith gives the ball away more than Ross but most forgive him for the effort he puts in. Ross rarely tackles, tracks back or challenges for headers. For a midfielder, its not good enough.
Tony Hill
152 Posted 25/02/2015 at 18:19:10
I think he's frozen with lack of confidence, Jamie, and he is hiding from the ball including any attempts to get it back or to win it in the first place. I agree that his play is not good enough, or anything like it, and indeed this mental block he has developed may be the death of him as a top player. I sincerely hope it isn't.

The question though is why he has developed it and how, if at all, it can be cured. I don't accept that he is a prima donna or just lazy.

Paul Tran
153 Posted 25/02/2015 at 18:48:34
As I've said before, Barkley isn't a wet behind the ears kid. He isn't delivering, simple as that. If I could go to games, I wouldn't boo him, but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect more than what we're getting. Martinez was great last season, poor this season and he's getting plenty of deserved stick, so why are people making excuses for Barkley? You deliver or you don't. He isn't.
Wayne Smyth
154 Posted 25/02/2015 at 19:02:06
Paul, it's clear Barkley isn't delivering this season. It's clear the same applies to Martinez and about 95% of our squad.

People who make the effort to get to the match and pay for their seat are also correct to say they have the right to yell and scream abuse at whoever they like for whatever reason.

My issue is that as an Evertonian, I want the best for my club and I don't see that a toxic atmosphere contributes to us getting results and playing good football, even though it obviously makes some people feel better at the time to make their feelings known.

I think if we want the players to produce we need to get behind them. Getting on their backs only serves to give confidence to the opposition and drain it from our lads. Football is all about confidence and it's clear we are playing without any.

Brian Wilkinson
155 Posted 25/02/2015 at 19:15:37
Not rocket science Howard playing thursday, can you imagine Robles coming back in and playing a blinder.

No way will Martinez risk that, then dropping Robles for the Arsenal game.

Ian Brandes
156 Posted 25/02/2015 at 19:21:42
I have decided to hit the off switch every time our wonderful manager spouts nonsense which is actually most of the time.

So I was totally unaware that he planned to play Howard in goal tomorrow, and, as result, I am lost for words. After Leicester, no one in their right mind, would put him between the sticks. But then,we do have RM as our manager.

On the Ross Barkley front, I am very worried. Do we do enough to keep an eye on our younger players? A lack of concentration, and a slap dash approach to helping out team mates may indicate problems off the field, which are weighing heavily on him.

I do not claim that my supposition is true. But this season,Ross is like a new signing, but not in a good way.

It is a terrible tragedy because he is such a good player, but lack of man management is obviously contributing to his dramatic decline.

John Keating
157 Posted 25/02/2015 at 19:29:39
Wayne every one of us whether at the game or watching on the telly or computer wants the best.
When you are watching the dross we've been getting week in week out it is totally impossible not to yell and scream abuse either at the game or at the telly!
As far as I'm concerned it's up to the team to generate some sort of performance to get our support.
As the game went on Sunday and Lukakus touch got as bad as ever, the sideways shite passing went on, everyone in the ground got pissed off.
I never heard anyone tell the wasters to "play up chaps, not to worry about losing the ball, on again !" Or words to that effect !
The shit we have witnessed from both team and management this season they're bloody lucky they've got away with what they have ! And quite rightly !
Jamie Barlow
158 Posted 25/02/2015 at 19:02:33
It can be cured as I have said above. By putting in the effort. Evertonians aren't daft. We can excuse players having bad games if they look as if they're trying. If we see full commitment, we, or I'll be happy with that.

He doesn't pick himself I know but he has to give his all every game he plays.There's no excuse for hiding in games when you have all that talent. If he gets grief off the crowd, he deserves it.

Maybe it's just me but I like players like Naismith and maybe Besic because they may not be the best footballers but you won't see them going missing in games whether it's going well or they're having a stinker.

I'm like you though. I hope he finds his mojo again. It's a shame seeing him like this.

Kevin Rowlands
159 Posted 25/02/2015 at 19:32:13
Brian, what worries me is that the skinny Spanish waiter said and I quote ’Its not an issue whatsoever’ about the Howard situation, not an issue??? are you fucking kidding me, we’ve made 13 mistakes that have led to goals with over 50% of them being Howards fault! plus all the mistakes that he’s made and been very lucky to get away with, I honestly despair at this point.

As for Ross, it certainly didn’t help with softshite publically announcing that he was going to be the best player ever to wear an England shirt, surely it would have been better just to say Ross needs to keep working hard and he will have a successful career, but what do I know.

Patrick Murphy
160 Posted 25/02/2015 at 19:39:56
Given our current PL position and it could get worse, it’s of little surprise that Ross hasn’t been pulling up trees this season and those around him haven’t helped him. Out of the current crop of players there appears to be only a handful who are bothered about our form and the rest seem to be making noises about leaving us in the Summer. If the Blues don’t get at least a point at Stoke and Arsenal or a victory at either venue it will be the first time in our PL history that we will enter the final ten games of the season with less than 30 points - a very good reason for the ’guns for hire’ to jump ship and leave Everton high and dry - if you didn’t know better you would think that they had planned it that way.

Dave Williams
161 Posted 25/02/2015 at 20:36:33
I don't think Ross can be blamed. He is young and needs the players around him to create space and drag defenders with them to allow him to run with the ball. This happened last season with both full backs marauding forward to good effect but that hasn't happened this season, our wide players have not been good so Ross and indeed Rom have struggled.Ross does not appear to be a quick learner and maybe avoids tackles because of his previous leg break - certainly I can't recall a decent tackle from him.

We can't expect a still raw kid to turn us around. The player we have missed who made us tick for a good few years is Peanuts. He gave us creativity and made Baines a far better player than he is on his own. The left flank was so dangerous that it created space on the right for Coleman to exploit. We have no one to come anywhere near Peanuts ability though why we haven't tried two from Baines Oviedo and Garbutt puzzles me.

As for GK I can recall the home loss to Chelsea a few years ago when Ballack, Lampard and Drogba all scored from distance and Tim seemed to lose the flight of the ball each time which he has done frequently with long shots over the years. Someone posted above that he has lost his spring and I agree. This happened to Shilton, it happened to Big Nev and is a result of getting old. Tim has had his time and to drop Robles when he was visibly gaining confidence and authority in his area is strange to say the least as is the persistence with Baines over Garbutt and refusal to give Kone a chance.

I could go on for ages but will stop at that. Team selection tomorrow will be fascinating - if we concede early we could have problems and heaven help RM if Tim spills another one.

I would say though that our home crowd has not been helpful. Noone will respond positively to abuse and derision from the crowd. Yes you pay your money but have some sense and button it - try encouragement and see if they get better and much as it pains me to say it that shower from across the park were calling for Brendas head earlier in the season and he turned it around. Maybe Roberto will too?

Ian Riley
162 Posted 25/02/2015 at 20:16:29
Are the players frustrated with the manager or there own performances? A kick up the arse is not the answer if you are doing what the manager is asking from you. Furthermore, do the players want change in style and with that comes a new manager or move to another club.

At home with a back seven shows complete lack of attacking mentality.Teams that have played us at home play with freedom to attack. The fans start getting bored and pissed off with the lack of creativity. Three wins at home in the league all season shows this and what of the future?

The manager appears to be unwilling to change. Therefore it time to go in the summer. The chairman must see its not working and if we don't go down this season it may be next. Once the players stop believing in your philosophy then there is only one outcome. The fans can see it and that season ticket renewal form will only be used for lack of toilet roll.

Under Moyes I never experienced the atmosphere we have now. Its bad for everyone and cannot continue into next season. I believe with heart that we will stay up based on poor teams below us. In the summer we need a manager with a big character to tell the players straight, I would go and get big sam from westham in the summer.

Trevor Peers
163 Posted 25/02/2015 at 21:03:47
Dave #161 The manager kidded us Ross could be our creative midfielder for this season and that hasn't happened. It was obvious by the January window that we lacked creativity, he did nothing to remedy the situation and we still don't look like scoring.

As people have argued earlier Ross isn't that young and if he was truly mentally and physically equipped to be a great player it would be pretty obvious by now. Maybe the manager has messed with his head who knows.

Dave Williams
164 Posted 25/02/2015 at 21:38:34
Have to go along with you Trevor much as it pains me! Whether it is mental or physical he hasn't progressed and will shortly be eclipsed by the next generation of Ledson, Dowell and Walsh. It's crossroads time for him now and if he doesn't sort himself by next season he could become yesterdays man. I maintain he has been badly affected by the poor performances of others and Rooney was similarly affected after his initial dozen games or so for us. He had the ability and determination to prosper once he had good players around him but whether Ross has that in him is open to question at the moment.

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