Martinez attributes latest defeat to tired legs

Jurgen Klinsmann should be our target IMHO. He has great desire, passion, has good knowledge and experience of the Premier League (although as a player). I think players would play for him and his personality would be welcomed by the fans. Of course there is a question would he accept to come, but we should at least try.

This man is a con artist who is fast running out of excuses! He complains of tired legs yet he plays a 34 year old Barry every game!

Only 1 win in last 11 PL games (6 losses and 4 draws) when there was very little to no European football distractions!

This is a team that canÂ’t beat the likes of Leicester, Hull, West Brom etc. at home when there was no Europa game.

Martinez has asked for patience from the first few games of this season and he is still doing so right now, yet the football and style of football we play has not changed all season, so what are we now supposed to be waiting to happen?

Finally, what is MartinezÂ’s obsession with wingers? Osman, Mirallas, Pienaar, Atsu, Lennon, McGeady, Oviedo, and he has even played Lukaku and Barkley there too. It makes absolutely no sense when we have the best wing backs in the country in Coleman and Baines. Coleman and Baines have looked restricted all season but they are two of our strongest positions.

IÂ’m actually in two minds now about the EL: lose and weÂ’re out but is this the only reason BobbyÂ’s keeping his job?

Act now BK whilst we can still attract someone decent.

Dammit. Missed it. Now they're tired.

I cannot see where the next win is coming from as any team can turn us over quite easily. There is no fight in the team. Once we go behind we resign ourselves to losing. I cannot see a way out for us.

To top it all off I was stuck in the car park for an hour.

Roberto you have lost the players and you have certainly lost the fans.

Bilic, Moyes, even Steve fucking McLaren... I donÂ’t care as long as itÂ’s someone who can actually see past their next excuse.

Been waiting all season to reach the point where our players will be fit and fresh as promised, now weÂ’re tired? Shocking!

One question: if Rodgers had kept this run up since November would he still be employed? We are rather a big club or weÂ’re not. ACT NOW!

Please resign.

Thank you.

That's all.

I can’t disagree that if we are going to point at tired legs, then starting the most tired legs makes no sense. Is Barry some sort of Mentalist?

Just watched the "highlights"... shocking lazy hoof back by Lukaku.

At least nothing Howard could’ve done with either goal.

He really doesn't do himself any favours.

+ all the kids

What he's saying is that with all these players fit and/or available over the past two weeks he couldn't rotate the squad enough to keep their legs moving?

I saw the second half tonight and it wasn't for lack of moving legs that the team was beaten. It was for lack of any actual direction or desire. 2-0 down and back-passes should mean being benched. Not benching players for doing it should mean the sack.

Guess we're adding Howard now to Hibbert and Osman.

You can read many articles on both and almost make you believe that there is some truth in these theories.

So here is my theories as to Everton’s demise this season. Liverpool had new owners take over from some other corrupt Yankee counterpart some time ago. They knew they had the red Echo in their back pockets, however they also knew that to stay at the top of the money go round they needed a new stadium.

Long term they also knew that there was not enough local red supporters to fill that stadium, what they needed was to have a new generation of local football fans to milk.

However Everton FC stood in their way. After all the Peoples club was not a myth it is a fact. You only have to look at how many young faces there are at Goodison park on match day, compared to that at Anfield, who we all know have more plastic fans than Man Utd.

So the Yanks being the corrupt greedy bastards that they are had some inside information about Sir Alex eventually retiring and had already ear marked David Moyes to replace him. However Everton would replace the departing manager and who ever took over could carry on for years to come with the solid foundations left by Moyes.

So they needed a man on the inside to do their dirty work. They approach Roberto Martinez and behind closed doors they offer him a chance to be the Liverpool manager with the trappings of endless wealth and ego boosting incentives to become the biggest legend on Merseyside.

But first Roberto we need you to manage Everton FC, we know they’re going to lose David Moyes in the next 18 months and that you have a good enough respect to get the Everton job in his place.

So this is what we want you to do, take the Everton job and put all your energies into having a brilliant first season, we will start the rumors that Barcelona will be head hunting you and that will make the Everton board panic and offer you a 5 year deal.

This will then create a conundrum as they wont sack you no matter how bad you do, their hands are tied until it’s too late, you take them down, still get a few million in compo if they do sack you. Everton will never return to the Premier League thus paving the way for Liverpool FC steal a whole new generation of local supporters.. We have a packed 60-70 thousand stadium and we then offer you the manager’s job to play your tippy tappy football philosophy. Job done

Dumped out of the League Cup one match in; dumped out of the FA Cup first time of asking; 3 Europa League games since November (2 of which were dead rubbers). How can this team possibly be tired?

Someone needs to remind him there will be plenty more games each year down in the Championship.

Martinez out, btw.

Excuse after excuse, now the excuses contradict each other... coming good second half, final third, now tired.... when did they peak? I blinked and missed it!

Didn't think it could get this bad... and as for compensation if he gets sacked, what for? He has underperformed so can be sacked for nowt, just like the rest of us can. I've had enough now.... out of words, out of patience.

Just stop talking bollocks and grow some instead so you can the right thing and say you aren't up to it, you're out of ideas and let someone with more ideas have a go (someone who has played a couple of seasons of Football Manager would be better and cheaper!)

His methods, philosophy etc have turned us into a football by numbers team where the players have lost the manual! Players have gone beyond loss of confidence and now appear not arsed unless playing in the European shop window.

Anything good we had under Moyes - grittiness, togetherness, a game plan - has been lost and I cannot see how how or when it will change, or where the next win is coming from.

Sorry Roberto, for the sake of our great club you have to go

Stoke won in a canter. They absolutely toyed with us. They were faster, stronger, more intelligent....all over the pitch. They wanted it more than us. Too many strolled without urgency or desire. Too many are just not good enough.

He is by far the worst keeper in the league and it's like playing with a one goal handicap every game. Totally demoralizing for the other players and everyone else.

I've never seen a keeper actually seem to shrink when he goes for any attempt from distance.

We've got lots of other problems brought on by the manager, but Howard has been the main reason for our inability to build any momentum.

If, and it's beginning to become a BIG if, we are still up after this nightmare of a season, there have to be some major changes made at the club this summer. RM is a pleasant enough fella, but his insistence on plan A, and his refusal to adapt in any way, even when plan A has proven to be disastrous, tells me he has to go. Ossie, Howard, Distan, and Pienaar have served us well, but they are occupying roster spots and collecting paycheques that should given to younger players.

Find a competent manager. Sign Garbutt and Oviedo. Sell any player who doesn't want to be here for top dollar, and start over.

God, I wish this season was over.

Well Roberto you have another weekend off now like we did at the end of January because we went out of the FA Cup at the first hurdle.

That nice little warm weather refreshing break has really done wonders for our levels of fitness and the results hasn't it?

Just another fucking big excuse for being shite.

If we are relegated Roberto you have a ready made excuse for not winning promotion..42 games in the Championship.!

I've defended you to the hilt, so far, and received plenty of grief for it but enough is enough. Are people right when they say this is the real Roberto Martinez? That last season was a fluke? That indeed you are a snake oil salesman who has tricked us into buying your 'philosophy'?

I feel cheated Roberto as you seem incapable of turning this around (I still don't believe we will be relegated btw) and not only incapable but not even concerned and that laissez faire attitude is reflected in our play, and results. So get a grip Roberto lad. No more cheap chat, no more phenomenal bullshit, no more smilley smiley mr nice guy etc.... Just start grinding out a few wins and we'll see what happens to you in the summer.

Probably 㾶m to fire Martinez. Minimum 𧴜m a season and counting to drop out of Prem...

But right near the top of the list is the fact that despite the fact that we are 14th with a pathetic 28 points after 28 games I cannot recall Martinez ever coming out and admitting any fault!

Surely the PR department must be begging him to come out and say 'We have got some things wrong this season. I have got things wrong. It's not good enough for this club and its fans and we will do everything to correct it and get us back on track'. Words to that effect may at least get some of the fans back onside and that might be worth a few points alone.

But no. No admission of fault whatsoever. Just tired excuses. The man is stubborness personified. A sad part of me hopes we don't win the Europa league as that might just buy him another season in which to complete his Championship project if he doesn't manage it this one.

I had my epiphany after the West Brom game. I feel cheated by this 'snake oil salesman' too. The only thing we differ on is that I'm not sure we wont go down. Martinez is looking a bigger fool than many warned of. I don't think I've ever come across a more stubborn advocate of a system that is failing. Its like watching the early stages of 'Britain's Got Talent' when the deluded members of society wander onto the stage with bags of self belief and ...

Where can I get some snake oil?

Last season I thought he was brilliant. He got loads of tactical decisions right, both before and during games, with the Arsenal home game being the prime example of this. Watch this clip.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=O4WWTYbKpOU

This is essentially the same team, that are clearly playing to the managers instructions. The difference is the players believed in their manager and we're highly motivated. That's where Martinez has fallen down this season. htelling he should be sacked ASAP like I say, but for me the players have been a disgrace as well. Something major has happened behind the scenes; my guess is it probably involves Distin somehow, but I doubt we will ever know. Anyway watch the clip. That's more or less the same team.

Now he and we are paying for his conceit.

A seperate question, who thinks he would get us out of the Championship even if he kept a large part of this squad together to try?

I have the feeling we will lose 2-0 at home to ManUre and RM will book a taxi the following day.

On another topic, someone in the know says Joe Royle is now very worried about the prospect of relegation, and would be wiling.but only if asked by BK and the board to try and steer us to safety as interim caretaker manager.

He would be brave man to accept such a poisoned chalice, but then he is a genuine Everton legend unlike some I could mention.

On the subject of tired legs, our tactics are hardly energy sapping. They players have been moving round the pitch at walking pace all season.

Yep that's how I see it too.

The problem is that everyone is solely blaming Martinez and the lazy, primadonna pricks who are possible rebelling are getting away scott free.

They should be fucking ashamed of themselves, I don't give a flying squirrel's left nut if they don't like him. What about professional pride?

These pricks are daydreaming through games and not doing the basics of footballers. They should be fined.

Same as the shameful treatment of Woy with those humongous bigheads over the park. Should all be fined/sacked. Petty little pricks.

Get on with your job and play footy, if the manager drops you for actually trying to win the game, then he will be shown up for what he is.

I'm done and I won't be going back next season, no matter what league we are in.

I purposely refused to watch the match, as I knew exactly how it would go. We would huff and puff for a while then they would score with their first shot and we would capitulate with more sideways shitty passing and no shots on goal.

Most posters called it on the match thread hours before the kick off.

Fuck off Martinez, you have done what no other manager before has done, you have made me pack in my season ticket.... bellend

Don't forget "Luck" weve had none all season according to Barcelona Bobby.

"Momentum" and "Luck" it's all where "Lacking".

I feel like crying, I really do.

The bookies have his sack odds as 8/1. A William Hill director tweeted earlier that the odds of him not being at Goodison next season are now 2/1.

I am going with
Fine Margins and non adventurous approach cost us the game.

That doesn't excuse the players because I slated the Manchester United players for behaving in that manner last season. The Europa League offers the players a possible reward and would look good on their CV but finishing outside the top 10 doesn't light their candle and if the worst happened a good many of them would jump ship quicker than you could say phenomenal.

I think the players thought they had played badly enough in December and early January to have brought about a change of manager but alas they were wrong and I really can't see them improving any time soon. The only saving grace is if they manage to win at QPR and or Villa and beat Burnley and or Sunderland it will be enough to save us from the drop. But the behaviour of some of our stars if my theory is correct is unforgivable,

Most of the senior players have been at the club long enough to realise that Everton are not blessed with money and that we have always had to work extremely hard for every point even when playing well, to refuse to put in the required effort and display the necessary desire is unacceptable and each and every one of them should examine their individual contributions to the cause.

Roberto, itÂ’s not a dream, your head has really fell off. DonÂ’t worry though, we can put it back on, back to front mate. You should be fine, it will probably remind you of your tactics!

Always thought he could become a good manager, but IÂ’m not so sure at the minute. HeÂ’s got lost, because I think his plans have resolved around Europe, and he probably thought we would be good enough to stay mid table at least in the league. That hasnÂ’t happened, and his constant tinkering, and dis-jointed formations, have put him in no mans land, and IÂ’m not sure he knows where he his right now.

Take last night for instance, we knocked it over the top for Lukaku, a few times, but with so many defensive minded players on the pitch, he was getting isolated. He decides to change it and bring on another forward, fine. But then he took his winger off. Played into Mark Hughes hands by pushing both fullbacks up, and now isolating his two central defenders.

Surely when you are getting everything wrong, you go back to basics, but a goalkeeper who was gaining confidence and keeping clean sheets, was replaced by a flapper whoÂ’s season has been atrocious.

Everton, sleepwalking, and we still canÂ’t keep a clean sheet!

Go.

At the start of the season I honestly believed we were as good if not better than them and looking at the personnel I still think we are close, why is their such a big gap between us now? simple answer, it’s the managers, one adapted and has done a fine job, the other has been useless, no prizes for guessing the useless one!

If we averaged 2 points per game from now till the end of season and Liverpool lost every game from now till the end of season.

They would still finish above us!

YouÂ’d hear only one voice from the dressing room, and youÂ’d hear it loud and clear. The "tired legs" would make a miraculous overnight recovery...

Play two wingers who will attack and help Lukaku and ditch this 2/3 holding midfielders who basically do nothing. Not one goal between Besic, McCarthy and Barry this season and how many goals do they prevent? Overhyped players who contribute little.

He then allowed this faker to talk him into splashing out a club record fee of 28 million on a big lumbering oaf who Chelsea didn’t want anywhere near the club even though they had striker problems and who Wilmots sparingly played in the WC( the warning signs were right there).

To top these two mistakes off, he then allowed him to give multi year contract extensions to Howard and Barry, both well past their sell by dates as this season has proved, a multi year extension to Naismith, who, besides all his endeavor, is nowhere near good enough for this league, contract extensions for Osman and Hibbert, both of whom have hardly been seen this season. Add to that the endless list of mistakes this fool of a manager has made all season and the whole thing is a fucking shambles and it all started at the door of one man, Bill Kenwright!

It's a shame because it all looked so bright and promising last season but that's Everton, as soon as you get your hopes up you get a kick in the bollocks.

I am like other people who after his first season thought the club was on a path to good football , success , and a chance of continuous football in Europe. However this season has shown a far different side to the manager that I am afraid, now asks the question should he stay ? or should he go ?. To me if ever a manager was on a quest to get himself fired Martinez is a leading candidate.

Lets put his past to one side and just look at what he has done at Everton. Now we are told by RM that attacking football is in his DNA. He has bought 3 defensive midfield players, last season he only played 2 of them and most of last season Osman was used and although often critisized seem to be the one player that joined midfield and forwards together. Latterly due to Osmans injury we have played all 3 defensive midfielders, so attacking option severly curtailed.
He loves fast pacy wingers Deulofeu ( probably the best) Mcgeady,Lennon and Atsu this would have you believe that our style will be using our fast pacy wingers to get round the back of defenders and put plenty of crosses in for forwards running into the box.
But not a bit of that happening instead he pushes his 2 fullbacks forward and wide which restricts the space for the wingers to operate in. Also his possession based play means that only very rarely do we play the ball out of defense quickly to get the best from his pacy wingers. Also it seems that nobody is encouraged to run beyond Lukaku so we never stretch defencers.
We never seem to want to play the ball behind defenders for forwards to run onto, he much prefers to play the ball into feet which allows defenders to see everything in front of them. So no real wonder that we are where we are when we play this style of football.

Agreed, as most have stated numerous times, this season's mess started in the off-season. Poor preparation and little in the way of new reinforcements has set the tone for how this season has gone. It has also likely contributed to the number of injuries we've had this season. The team has looked lethargic and out of shape since day 1.

I think it's obvious to all where Martinez falls short. IMO, it's all rooted in his obsessive unwillingness to adapt. As I and many others have noted, managerial logic dictates you implement/adapt a system that maximizes the strengths and minimizes the weaknesses of the players at your disposal. It's not rocket science. Yet our manager has demonstrated time and again a strong aversion to deviate from his idealistic plan - regardless of results. Square pegs and round holes, be damned!

However, I hold the players equally responsible for where we find ourselves at the moment. This SAME team demonstrated last season they are capable of playing with pace, grit and passion. This season they move around this pitch at a snail's pace, if at all, routinely shitting out of tackles (other than Besic and he wasn't even here last season). I know many argue player performance on the pitch is down to what the manager is telling them to do and how to play. I would agree with that assertion to some degree but the majority of this squad is playing without any passion, urgency or desire. That is not coached out of someone. That is a conscious choice. While it is true that a manager should be able to motivate and inspire his charges, I would expect these so-called professionals to take that on themselves.

For some time now, this team has shown no signs of really giving a toss as we've edged closer to the drop. No urgency; no fire; no desire. Are they playing this way in protest? Maybe. If so, they can all sod off as far as I am concerned. We don't have a single leader in that squad and that is painfully obvious. Another matter that needs to be addressed next season.

I really don't know what is going to happen between now and the end of this season. What I am certain of is that BBS has demonstrated he is unfit to take this team forward next season. However, what action needs to happen to avoid the very real threat of relegation this season is a much more complicated matter. Complicated by the fact that any action around removing the current manager would need to be taken by a chairman and board that notoriously avoid taking action where at all possible.

We all know what Bobby is telling them and we also know that our continuing foray in Europe is to his advantage. My guess is the board will play a game of chicken here (as they've done in the past) and stay the course hedging that we will avoid the drop. Where this could get interesting is if some of the former Everton greats and confidants start twisting the ears of Bill and others. If they believe there is a real danger of the drop, then we may see something happen this season. However, I have read already that Reidy and possibly others have publicly stated they do not think we'll go down. Whether they are saying that privately is another matter.

If the decision is left solely to the non-footballing decision-makers (i.e, the money men), I think we will be riding this wave with Bobby until the end of the season.

God help us all!

Whatever system Martinez is trying to impose on the players isn't working. The bloke at man Utd is really struggling with a system there but they are winning most of their games - I'd take shit football and 3rd place any day. The fellah over the road was under a lot of pressure after rat face left, he turned it around and have got the players playing the way he wants and is getting results. Martinez seems to have run out of ideas.

I don't think we'll go down but if we carry on playing and getting results like this, he'll need to move on.

I'd take the bloke from Burnley.

I think we need 9 points to be safe but we won't get them if people don't get behind the team and abuse the manager and players. Like I said, yes, people are angry. I was too after last night (in fact I had had enough of the club) but, having calmed down and having looked at what we need to do to stay in the Premier League, I am now totally focused on supporting our boys for the rest of the season (as well as praying) and hoping things get better during the summer!

'Momentum' - what is he on about, we have lost 2 out of 16, there is no momentum end of. Worst record ever 28 points in 28 games.

'Philosophy' - everybody else calls it tactics and he doesn't have any? Has he got a degree in football philosophy! Arrogance.....maybe his hero Pep Guadiola had a philosophy, that's why he dresses and tries to look like him. Pep actually changes his tactics according to the opposition hence his success.....

'We are the only team to score 3 against Chelsea (at the time)'. Could somebody explain to this half-wit that they scored 6 in one of the worst defensive shambles I have ever witnessed in 45 years watching the Blues. We lost the game.

'To keep a clean sheet is not a priority' - since when? If you don't let in goals you don't lose.

'West Ham didn't score a goal in open play' after we got knocked out of the cup!!! Did anybody tell this supreme tactician that corners are part of the game. You are allowed to score from them and you learn to defend them or is this against his philosophy?

'Positivity' - about what exactly?

The latest one is 'Tired legs!'

To be honest there are more and I am sure you could add to them. The bottom line is the facts tell us he is rubbish. As somebody said on this site, look at his record on Wikipedia, he is nothing special....

The excuses and nonsense he comes out with is laughable. Only this is not a laughing matter.

If Joe Royle looks at this site, please give BK a ring and get rid of this fool until the end of the season.

Thanks

Negative Snowballs

'They don't deserve this!' another quote, trying to distance himself from HIS team.

'When you look at the performances against Arsenal and Stoke to have these scorelines is heartbreaking' - get them sorted then, Bobby

'We need to face the challenge straight on and change the dynamics' - this from a man who never changes his tactics and plays the same players regardless of form.

Either get us three points Bobby, shut up or my favoured option F-off

The highlights, or lowlights for me, include the one after the Arsenal game when he talked about how unfortunate it was to fall behind to a set-piece. This isn't a new problem, this goes back to last season. So if he can highlight it as a problem in a post match interview then why aren't we working on set-pieces more. I'm not privy to the training regime but everything I've read or heard says we don't, or do very little on set-pieces.

The other nugget is the one where he said conceding goals is not a priority. It just sounds ridiculous! It wouldn't make him sound so much of a loon if we were a free-scoring team like last season, or like Keegan's Newcastle in the mid-nineties, but the goals have dried up and we've played the same hand of cards, over and over.

This is where he looks like a politician who's totally forgotten the promises he made before an election. We all heard when he took the job that he would improve on what we had and build upon what OFM had built (a cohesive unit that played as a team, albeit a little too predictable and reactive at times) he did this, getting an Everton team to play the most attractive football in the league. That seems to have been forgotten this season and we just have the Wigan style (defending is an afterthought) perhaps Weir and Stubbs should have stayed as defensive coaches instead of Dennis Lawrence. Fuck knows..If I knew I'd be a rich man and would probably be a successful manager myself.

I'm at the point now where I'm not completely anti-Martinez because we had to have a period of readjustment having overachieved last season. But the other side of me says that this team is playing with a lot of similarities to the Wigan side that went down. I hope it's the former and we grab a couple of wins and get to the latter stages of the Europa. I don't think anything other than a winning it, will keep him in a job now and we will have a new manager in the summer.

This fella has no one to question him, and for those who mention Duncan Ferguson, they might be right, only Duncan seems like a token gesture to me.
If his half time warm ups are anything to go by, then Duncan has definately got more professional with age. why doesn't he go into the changing room though, and gee the players up? Maybe he'd be getting in Roberto's way?

If we were to go down the sacking route many are calling for on here, Joe Royle could be the only in-house appointment until the end of the season (it would have to be someone from the club at this late stage) its been a long time since the 'dog's of war though' and the games changed since the 90's. For that reason I think Martinez should stay until the summer but he needs to heed advise from the likes of Joe and what HK said in the Echo (being a little more reactive to the opposition) which doesn't have to mean going route one with balls, it just means being a bit mindful of the other teams strengths and grinding results out.

I have been since the first second of the season but look what good that has done us.

The manager and players need bollocking because they have all let us down, but because they get paid stupid money not one of them really gives a shit.

So they hatched a plan to install a manger at Everton who could not only get us relegated but bankrupt us at the same time. Step one was to find the right candidate, Roberto Martinez. Step two, lure David Moyes away from Everton. Knowing that Ferguson was due to retire and that Man U were also worried about the improving Blues secret conversations were held and Moyes was tricked into taking the United Job. Step 3 get Martinez the job at Everton. Not difficult, tell him to say to make BK cream his keks and Bobs your uncle, well manager.

Once he was in things couldn't have gone better for Senor Martinez. Utilising his natural ability as a manager he quickly guided Everton to the upper echelons of the Premier League, deliberately messing things up only when it looked as though Everton might actually sneak into the Champions League. Even he was amazed at his good fortune when BK offered him a new 5 year contract after just one season, the plan had allowed for at least 3 seasons of almost making it before this happened. Roberto used his popularity with the board to secure as many players onto high wage, long term contracts as he could. Thus making it very difficult for the club to get rid. Naturally no contracts were to be offered to the young up and coming stars. His plan for them was to ostracise them from the club so that they would leave for nothing when their contracts ran out.

Finally all he needs to do is make sure that the mighty Toffees get relegated and lose all of the TV rights that help keep them afloat. Then and only then will he replace Brendan Rodgers as Liverpool manager. Although truth be told Rodgers is just a puppet manager, Martinez has been telling him what to do from day 1.

The buck stops with the manager for every game, thats his squad, his players, his formation, his tactics and his subs, his stubborn retention of non performing players despite the glaringly obvious lack of form when options are there, when that manager fails to spot the bleeding obvious and leads the club to the edge of the abyss then its the chairman's job to come up out of his bunker and get shut, I fear if we dropped into the Championship that even with parachute payments the inevitable exodus of first team players would put us down and out for a long long time

If we get relegated can we do an appeal like the redshite in 2005 when they didn't qualify for the Champion's League through their league placing?

Can we appeal that we should stay in the Premier League?......ermm....like.....ermm..... just because we erm.... we ermm.. played well last season!

I think one of the morals learned from all this is never trust a manager with a philosophy!!! I have never known a GREAT MANAGER who had a philosophy. Kendall, Catterick, Ferguson, even Shankly (dare I say it) were always pragmatists and winners.

The only thing that really matters is winning. A manager who has a philosophy is basically setting up excuses for when his team doesn't win. The normal crap like we played well but were unlucky....they give the impression that their team tried to play exciting football, passing game etc etc...but they lost all the same. It is all rhetoric and the pundits love it. The fans don't. We hate losing.

RM has made a career of this. He has built this myth that his sides are attacking units (2 shots at Arsenal, WBA at home), it is all nonsense. Possession statistics mean nothing but he used that stat to deflect from his dismal results record and to bolster his reputation.

The truth is now out Bobby boy you are not good enough to manage in the premier league. You have lost the vast majority of the fans (you still have a few dreamers who still believe in you though - unbelievable, go round to their houses and sell them a used car quick), lost your players and very soon if Kenwright has a set.....he will lose your club.

I think as fans we have been fair all along to him. We have followed him in huge numbers home and abroad. Last season was an aberration. This season the real spoofer came to the fore and apart from the poor results, the nonsense he came out with has convinced me he is not the man for us. For all his faults at least Moyes was honest and didn't blame tired legs, lack of momentum, philosophy, clean sheets are not a priority etc.....

BK show him the door......and fast.

COYB

Since Howard has come back from injury, the back four look even more uncertain than usual. I don't think that is a coincidence either. He likely won't do it, but BBS needs to sit Howard. With what is at stake for the club now, player egos and such nonsense must take a back seat. With what little confidence there is in the squad at present, we all know that conceding even one goal this season goes a long way to determining the outcome of a match.

BBS needs to do whatever he can to minimize mistakes that will undermine confidence. The way he best can do that is by fielding players who are playing with some form and confidence starting in the most important position - goal.

I will be more surprised if we stay up because, despite most people on here thinking there are more teams below us that are even worse, I disagree. They may well be worse on paper, but they have more fight and balls to grind out results.