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Martinez focused on the long term

07/03/2015  Comments (250)  jump
Roberto Martinez has expressed his continued belief that a commitment to creativity and passing football are the keys to success over time.

In a lengthy interview with The Telegraph's Henry Winter, the Everton manager rejects the assertion that changing the team's style of play as a quick fix to win a trophy is a long-term solution.

Winning a trophy at any price can be very costly in the long run,'' he said. Of course you have to defend, but you want to be creative, constructive.

I don't think you would win it. You will always fall short.

Winter probed the Catalan regarding his response to the Blues' current plight and the fact that managers like Jose Mourinho and Brendan Rodgers have adapted their tactics where needed.

It's pure passion being involved in football," Martinez continued. "How you achieve something is as important as what you achieve. The journey has to be right.

It's different when you've got the best players and that's more a specific game-plan for a specific game. I'm of a school of going to a game and enjoying a skill, a piece of talent that makes something happen, that gives you real pleasure. Winning is very, very important but you can chase that dream with good football, not just finding a way' to win.

Read the full article

Quotes sourced from The Telegraph

Reader Comments (250)

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Patrick Murphy
1 Posted 07/03/2015 at 18:18:35
Is it just me or is this a re-hash of a previous article(s) and
mostly a PR piece?
Ross Edwards
2 Posted 07/03/2015 at 18:27:20
That interview with Henry Winter is just full of the same hyperbolic cliches we’ve heard all season. He says that Tim Howard has had a ’strong season’.

I don’t what the hell he’s seen that we haven’t to have come up with that, and said that we’ve tried to be ’dynamic and flexible tactically’. A description that is totally opposite to the dross and shocking and predictable decision making we’ve been subject to this season.

Brian Hennessy
5 Posted 07/03/2015 at 19:36:45
I have no problem at all with Roberto sticking to his principals, passing football, the "passion" he speaks of and creativity, just as long as he does it somewhere else.

Adios, Roberto.

Lachlan Stark
6 Posted 07/03/2015 at 19:40:17
What does RM know that we donÂ’t? The results of Chelsea and Liverpool are self evident which is why we are where we are. Clearly tip tap possession football is the way forward......
Ross Edwards
8 Posted 07/03/2015 at 19:46:14
Just the same rubbish weÂ’ve heard all season.Incredible how he thinks Howard has had a strong season.

Beggars belief.

Sam Rangle
9 Posted 07/03/2015 at 19:47:59
What planet is this guy from? Could he be further from reality?? He just keeps on collecting his cheques and just doesnÂ’t give a damn! Shameful and shameless.
Brian Hennessy
10 Posted 07/03/2015 at 19:47:57
He better "find a way to win" a few matches soon or we are all doomed
Ian McDowell
11 Posted 07/03/2015 at 19:50:19
Fair play to him if thats what he believes. I listened to an interview on Talksport with a manager whoÂ’s name escapes me but he said the worst mistake he made was to change his philosophy. If you are going to fail you may as well fail doing what you believe in.
Colin Glassar
13 Posted 07/03/2015 at 19:53:56
I enjoyed the article until he started on about Howard. What universe do you live in Roberto?
James Hill
14 Posted 07/03/2015 at 19:53:12
Jesus what kind of crap is that. My apologise to all the ToffeeWebbers who saw the flaws in this character months ago. I think finding a way to win right now would be your number one priority, Roberto.
Patrick Murphy
15 Posted 07/03/2015 at 19:41:55
All the teams that win trophies usually find a way to win as itÂ’s almost impossible to play fantastic football in every match. Last season I didnÂ’t hear any of the players or staff saying that luck played a part in some of our victories, yet this season it has been a recurring theme that the team has been unlucky.

Why would Mourinho at all of the clubs he has managed be so reliant on having a solid defence first and foremost, did Manchester City win their two titles by the efforts of their attacking players alone?

Arsenal have tried to play Â’perfectÂ’ football for the majority of the last decade but have only added a single FA Cup to their trophy cabinet, despite being pleasing on the eye to the neutral for most of that period.

Putting principles in place and being unafraid of possession is fine when you have the players available who are capable of doing so, but Roberto could be at Goodison for ten years and unfortunately never have enough of those quality players within his squad, so whatever system is employed it has to accommodate those who are limited in ability.

Fans pay to watch the current team perform in the next game at hand and if they can see an improvement in most aspects of the performance will by and large support whatever the manager deems to be the correct way of playing, but if they see a team who fail to compete or are clueless in the final third, their patience will wear very thin very quickly and will let the manager know about it.

That is the point that many Evertonians are at now, of course if Everton were to suddenly click into gear and reproduce the performances and results of last season they may feel there is hope in what the current manager is trying to do, but if the final six home games produce the same tepid performances as have been witnessed in most of the PL home games so far they will continue to feel aggrieved and may well vote with their feet - which would be a great shame as loyalty to Everton FC is one of the core strengths of the club and shouldnÂ’t be taken for granted.

Nick Page
16 Posted 07/03/2015 at 19:19:09
I read this in the Echo this week and it sent a shiver down my spine.......

"But after LiverpoolÂ’s worst start to a season for half-a-century he changed his formation. The results speak for themselves. But Blues fans hoping for a Damascene conversion are likely to be left disappointed.

An old internet posting resurfaced this week. It was first published four years and five months ago by a disaffected Wigan fan after seeing his side beaten by Manchester City. He or she pleaded: "We pass the ball to death and donÂ’t go anywhere. Dave Whelan said Martinez must have a plan B this season. Why did we persist with pass, pass, pass on a dodgy surface?

"Why do we never take a long free-kick? When we get a free-kick in the opposition half, get it in the box, for GodÂ’s sake! IÂ’m not saying we should revert to Stoke and Blackburn tactics but you never know, itÂ’s got to be better than passing it 10 times and losing it again.

"Finally this style of football is BORING! I canÂ’t remember my backside leaving my seat today. IÂ’ve seen one goal in four games, but hey, IÂ’ve witnessed a million completed passes."

Many Everton fans could empathise this week.

Something has to change..."


Stephen Brown
17 Posted 07/03/2015 at 20:06:54
IÂ’d love him to be a success but fear the damage has now beyond repair.
David Barks
18 Posted 07/03/2015 at 20:06:37
This guy is an absolute fool. IÂ’d agree with him if we were playing creative, attacking football but losing 3-2. But weÂ’re not. We struggle to even get a shot on goal in a match. WeÂ’re not dangerous, weÂ’re toothless. WeÂ’re incredibly easy to defend against. No team fears playing against us.

What world does he live in where Barry, to McCarthy, back to Jagielka, over to Baines, back to Jagielka, over to Stones, over the Coleman, to Barry, back to Jagielka, back to Howard IS CREATIVE????!!! The guy must go, heÂ’s a failure and clueless. Barkley is lost, Coleman and Baines are now toothless, Mirallas is now out of the starting eleven, Lukaku struggles. No wide player, just a team full of defensive midfielders and central attacking midfielders.

But he continues to be allowed to spout off while representing Everton. Even negative Moyes only persisted with two defensive midfielders. This clown now has us playing with three and he still has the balls to say heÂ’s sticking to his principles of "creative" football.

Brent Stephens
19 Posted 07/03/2015 at 20:08:51
"ItÂ’s different when youÂ’ve got the best players and thatÂ’s more a specific game-plan for a specific game. IÂ’m of a school of going to a game and enjoying a skill, a piece of talent that makes something happen, that gives you real pleasure. Winning is very, very important but you can chase that dream with good football"

Winning with good football - fine. But he says himself here thatÂ’s itÂ’s different when you have the best payers. HeÂ’s giving us neither winning nor good football.

I think weÂ’ve got to a position where weÂ’re playing possession football not as a philosophy (the beautiful game etc) but because the guys donÂ’t know what to do with the ball now.

Bobby Thomas
20 Posted 07/03/2015 at 20:15:23
I personally have a very, very bad feeling about all of this.

We resemble the shambles we were under Walker. By common consensus someone who shouldnÂ’t have been let near the place.

We are so dis-organised and weak. We score no goals. We have no threat. We are a feeble side and are in my eyes genuine relegation material.

This interview has nothing to do with our current situation. Everything he says and does, makes me think he is living in a separate bubble.

Meanwhile, back on earth, IÂ’ve been fearing relegation since Xmas.

Dean Adams
21 Posted 07/03/2015 at 19:57:27
Nothing wrong with the passing game, Roberto, just as long as it is done with pace, passion and precision. That way, we get to reap the benefits. Unfortunately, you have missed out the pace and precision and just the passion alone gets you nowhere, other than relegated, as you well know. One on your copy book is enough, Roberto.
Dick Brady
22 Posted 07/03/2015 at 20:32:54
I heard a statistic that apparently when Wigan were relegated under Roberto Martinez they had 30 points at this stage of the season. Everton have 28 points. We have two less points than what Wigan had at this point when they went down.
Phil Walling
24 Posted 07/03/2015 at 20:37:18
Cheer up, folks, another six points will see us safe.......and then more of RobertoÂ’s philosophy next season !

Kenwright thinks heÂ’s a visionary !

Gareth Fieldstead
25 Posted 07/03/2015 at 20:37:41
Bobby, my thoughts exactly. I remember an article by Prentice; Walker asked him: DidnÂ’t he think we had improved since he had become manager? it was during pre-season. Prentice shook his head and subsequently accused Walker of being clueless. Same scenario now.

You may be right, Colin, and the next two games will decide his fate. Hopefully more emphasis on the Newcastle game than Dynamo, but I have a horrible feeling he will get to the end of the season minimum.

David Harrison
26 Posted 07/03/2015 at 20:38:55
Why doesnÂ’t he just shut the fuck up and work out how weÂ’re going to get enough points to stay up. Spouting off in the press is like a red rag to a bull. IÂ’d feel much better if he just closed ranks and got on with his job on the training pitch.
Paul Jeronovich
27 Posted 07/03/2015 at 20:37:14
IÂ’m also from a school of going to a game and enjoying watching a piece of skill, unfortunately when I started watching, Brett Angell was stealing a living so it was rare. Anyway, seeing a skillful player in his pomp is a joy but staying in the prem, winning matches by any means is a fucking necessity at the moment Roberto. Wake up before itÂ’s too late.
David Harrison
28 Posted 07/03/2015 at 20:45:43
He also needs to focus very clearly on the short term!
Joe Foster
31 Posted 07/03/2015 at 20:55:33
So he does not believe finding a way to win is important. I give up
Mark Frere
32 Posted 07/03/2015 at 20:57:08
It wouldÂ’ve actually helped if Martinez had bought some creative players to play the kind of philosophy he keeps banging on about. Instead we have a centre forward which canÂ’t trap a bag of cement, canÂ’t hold the ball up and cost 㿈 million. We also have soloists like Barkley and Mirallas who are not very creative at all. Our central midfielders are all holding midfielders and unable to play a forward pass. Players like McGeady and Lennon are just direct wingers and do not link-up play. Is it any wonder we clueless in the final third of the pitch. The closest thing we have to creative players are Osman and Pienaar and both are injury prone and well past their sell by date.

Arsenal are very inflexible and only have one way of playing but at least Wenger packs his midfield and attack with creative players, always has done.

The best teams though, are the oneÂ’s which can adapt and take a different aproach depending on the opposition they are up against. I remember last season when Mourinho had his players well drilled when they went to Anfield. You could tell theyÂ’d spent hours on the training field coming up with a game plan to frustrate RS by sitting deep and hitting them on the break.

Martinez, sadly, is just a one trick pony who canÂ’t even buy/loan the correct players to play the philosophy he keeps preaching. Martinez out!

Paul Hewitt
33 Posted 07/03/2015 at 21:06:33
How come nothing this guy says fills me with confidence?
Steve Higham
34 Posted 07/03/2015 at 21:00:56
His comments are totally opposite of how Everton have been playing all season -when have we played with passion ? HavenÂ’t seen a decent game at home or away all season and just wish Martinez would shut up he is really winding me up.
Bobby Thomas
35 Posted 07/03/2015 at 21:03:58
Lowest points for 88 years, no goals in 9 of the last 14, defensively awful, 3 home league wins, sinking down the league and he's giving interviews like this.

You'd think we were mixing it for a Champions League place and in the Eropa League semi-finals.

I just don't think we can win matches. We're getting worse. Any side coming to Goodison must fancy it and the away form is abysmal. QPR away should be fun...

Will Firstbrook
38 Posted 07/03/2015 at 21:41:35
More of RobertoÂ’s daily affirmations.....
Colin Oakes
39 Posted 07/03/2015 at 21:42:29
Well if thatÂ’s his outlook on things we are well and truly fucked.
James Stewart
40 Posted 07/03/2015 at 21:49:35
"Winning a trophy at any price can be very costly in the long run,’’ – What the hell is this guy talking about?

It was pretty costly to Wigan winning the cup under him! Blinkered ramblings of The Confidence Trickster.

Martinez out!

Nick Page
41 Posted 07/03/2015 at 21:58:14
My little Â’un has his EFC pyjamas on tonigh, just off to bed. HeÂ’s six and has no idea. IÂ’m gutted for him.

Thanks Roberto.

I used to email Moyes a few times and told him what I thought. Now I donÂ’t mean to sound like a prick but pointing out the Arteta playing wide left.....was something I think he actually responded to but this fella. Nothing. Its like pissing in the fucking wind.

Send him an email. Let your frustrations be known. See how far you get.

John Malone
42 Posted 07/03/2015 at 22:00:13
HeÂ’s lost the plot someone needs to give him a slap, a piece of skill is more important than winning!

This guyÂ’s got it the wrong way around the results come first the skill comes second. WeÂ’re not talking about a piece of art or a musical, itÂ’s not a movie itÂ’s a competition, a sport, a business! The most important thing is the result DICKHEAD!

Get him out and get a serious manager in who the players respect and fear and are afraid to lose under!

I fancy Neil Lennon heÂ’s a steely winner whoÂ’s played in the prem won trophies with Celtic plus pulled off unexpected results in the champions league plus is doing a very good job with Bolton.

Ernie Baywood
43 Posted 07/03/2015 at 22:01:30
Roberto has taken me through a range of opinions.

IÂ’m finally at the point where I read this and just think that heÂ’s a conman.

WeÂ’re in a relegation Â’battleÂ’, his Everton career is pretty much beyond repair, and heÂ’s telling us how the game should work. Like some father of football passing on his wisdom. The problem with that is that heÂ’s 41 and had achieved fuck all.

This is just designed for his reputation. And what I want is for him to be thinking about us, because weÂ’re bigger than him and in far graver trouble than he is.

Craig Mills
44 Posted 07/03/2015 at 22:16:59
IÂ’ve read his comments 3 times now and still donÂ’t really understand his answers! Why canÂ’t he just give a simple bloody answer to what is often a very simple question!!
Sam Rangle
45 Posted 07/03/2015 at 22:09:20
LetÂ’s all remember that if we go down, the better players and the manager will fuck off to another team, just like Martinez did with us when Wigan went down. The sad part is no one cares but us. The players certainly donÂ’t as they have proven time and again that they canÂ’t be bothered to even try hard in the games. Martinez is so lost that he literally is speaking in the OPPOSITE of reality (it would be more honest if he just blasted the players for a lack of effort and looking bored).

The owner doesnÂ’t seem to mind either as he is nowhere to be seen and in our darkest hour has only brought in Lennon on loan instead of making a statement and buying a player that can really help us long term. When asked IÂ’m sure Roberto is one of those guys who says "I donÂ’t read the papers or care what other people think...." I fucking hate that. It drives me insane. How did he unravel over 100+ years of glory in one season?

Ernie Baywood
46 Posted 07/03/2015 at 22:19:14
Nick Page. IÂ’d love to show him a picture of my three kids. Ages 5,6 and 7 - devoted Blues living in Australia. Continuing generations of Everton support. I get them up for the games in the middle of the night and they love it... except when we lose. They still want to get up for the games though.

Then they go to school and convert their schoolmates. Mates who are thinking of supporting Chelsea, City, Liverpool etc. They actually convert these kids because they speak with passion about the club, current players, history... The other kids canÂ’t do that. The PL is huge in school and these three Evertonians are the most knowledgeable and credible.

ThatÂ’s something IÂ’m obviously immensely, immeasurably proud of. (My wife calls it brainwashing which is a bit harsh).

So when Roberto starts talking about understanding the club and itÂ’s history I call bullshit. HeÂ’s gambling our status for some fucking ego trip heÂ’s on. HowÂ’s that understanding our club? How do my kids feature in this if he takes us down? This bloke is messing with my family history here.

Darryl Ritchie
47 Posted 07/03/2015 at 22:22:26
Key words and phrases; creative, constructive, passion, skill, talent, good football. Not sure who heÂ’s talking about, it sure as hell isnÂ’t Everton. Not this season, anyway.
Nick Page
48 Posted 07/03/2015 at 22:32:20
Craig, cos he hasnÂ’t really got a fucking clue what heÂ’s talking about. ItÂ’s called bluff.

The saddest thing is, this was all so unavoidable if only the lazy, greedy fucking board actually did something/anything resembling a job.

Everton Football ClubÂ’s board has to be the biggest disgrace in football, and according to me arl fella, back when I started going in the early 80Â’s has always been. I remember he always used to have a look around and then say theyÂ’ve fiddled the gates. I never really got it. 24/7 and his cronies have just carried it forward. Maybe we should get relegated and sort the shite out. Sad fucking days

Craig Mills
50 Posted 07/03/2015 at 22:54:19
Fair point Nick, but he wonÂ’t change, we are now 2 point worse off than the last team he got relegated and he still thinks football philosophy and individual moments of skill are more important than points.......jesus wept, that just about sums up this miserable fucking season, IÂ’m off to bed, wake me up when itÂ’s over
Phil Rodgers
51 Posted 07/03/2015 at 22:47:44
CanÂ’t make head nor tail of any of this. Unless he is talking in the past tense, IÂ’m not interested in a word he has to say about Everton.
Jason Heng
54 Posted 07/03/2015 at 23:35:30
Long-term? Put him in charge of the under-12.
Trevor Peers
55 Posted 07/03/2015 at 22:54:28
In the ruthless world of football management were good results are the only benchmark of any manager; I have just just read Roberto s latest article were It seems he is asking us as Everton fans to join him on his OWN particular adventure; the world of the football purist.

ItÂ’s a world were results come second to the style of play and the dream of seeing a brilliant piece of individual skill matters more than the end result.

A nightmare world were we now find ourselves itÂ’s called the RELEGATION ZONE.

Frank Crewe
56 Posted 08/03/2015 at 00:25:32
"A quick fix to win a trophy" WTF? Right now IÂ’d settle for a quick fix to avoid relegation.

I donÂ’t know what heÂ’s smoking but I wish I could get some of it. He appears to have withdrawn in to a world of his own. Get rid as soon as!!

Garry Corgan
57 Posted 08/03/2015 at 00:32:18
Here is another quote from todayÂ’s articles:

Asked if his team were guilty of over-passing, he said: "Never. I donÂ’t think you can. You can never over-pass. Passing for the sake of it is not going to take you anywhere. ThereÂ’s a reason behind every pass."

Is it only me that thinks he just contradicted himself in consecutive sentences there?

Gavin Johnson
58 Posted 08/03/2015 at 00:06:16
Roberto could do well to move into politics after football. He never answers a question with a straight answer. He either answers the question he wants to hear or it comes across like hyperbole that makes no sense.

Another thing that surprises me with our team apart from being overloaded with holding midfielderÂ’s is that Martinez seems to have a love for British footballers. Now, thereÂ’s nothing wrong with that, but I would have thought players from the Latin leagues would be a bit more technically gifted to realise his vision. I donÂ’t want to make sweeping generalisations here, but people have been arguing for years that UK youth coaches concentrate on strength and physicality over technique - a balance that needs readdressing IMO. So while I donÂ’t want to labour this point I find it interesting that Martinez seems to like British players so much, having already stated his like for Scottish players mentality after his time playing at Motherwell.

Drew Shortis
59 Posted 08/03/2015 at 00:37:52
I really donÂ’t (want to) believe we will go down but it could be a nail-biting end to the season nonetheless. I agree with everyone saying we should put the principles aside and concentrate on getting points at all costs. His long term plan wonÂ’t count for anything if we get relegated and he gets the sack!

That said, football is a funny old game and we could still salvage something from this season in the Europa League. Only in this competition have we shown what we are capable of. I would love for us to somehow come out of this awful season with a trophy and a Champions League spot, but not if it comes at the same price as WiganÂ’s FA Cup. Concentrate on grinding out results at home and save the fancy football for Europe Roberto. You might just save your Everton career!

Andrew Laird
60 Posted 08/03/2015 at 00:16:14
The more nonsense Martinez comes out with the less respect and confidence I have in him.

Regardless of any of the tactical tripe he came out with, which is such obvious bullshit, regarding this insipid, uninspiring, gutless, turgid, slow-motion travesty of a season, I would like to know one thing: Exactly how has "IÂ’ve made more individual mistakes leading directly to goals as well as being bottom of the shots to goals conceded stats" Tim Â’TeflonÂ’ Howard had a "strong season"!?

The shit-coloured shoed fella is only shy of referring to himself in the third person for the megalomania to be complete, he is a positive Moyes yet is somehow even more depressingly banal.

Eric Myles
61 Posted 08/03/2015 at 01:50:35
Ian #11, Roberto has already failed doing what he beleived in, at Wigan. It seems he has not learned from his mistakes there and is going to fail again with us while stilldoing what he believes in.
Mark Andersson
62 Posted 08/03/2015 at 01:29:33
No surprises to wake up here in Australia to read more shite from the manager. Hats off to Ernie for keeping the blue flame burning for generations to come. However, I had a chat to my son and advised him not to bring my grandson up as a blue, if we go down.

I think we are more likely to be relegated than stay up after reading this latest load of rubbish. The mind set of the players is one of defeat, you all know this but like me you hope the next game will see the players take responsibility and play for the shirt, the fans and the history of the club I find it quite ironic that as fans the heart beat of any club, that there is nothing we can do to remove this manager.

Now we know what it was like for those poor souls left on the Titanic, you know itÂ’s going down, youÂ’re praying for a miracle that someone comes and rescues you.... then you feel the cold and you sink into oblivion.

Jason Davenport
63 Posted 08/03/2015 at 02:35:57
Unless RM changes his philosophy or he is dismissed, Everton are doomed. Relegation will be the end of this great club. RM reminds me of a salesman, all bullshit and no substance. Walk the walk, not talk the talk.
Gavin Johnson
64 Posted 08/03/2015 at 02:00:09
The way RobertoÂ’s handled the GK situation this season epitomises everything about his pig headedness. ItÂ’s also remarks like, "HowardÂ’s had a strong season" that have me worrying Martinez doesnÂ’t know what heÂ’s doing and heÂ’s out of his depth at a big club.

And on the subject of Howard. I know itÂ’s not his fault he keeps getting picked but the guy just bugs the hell out of me now. "If heÂ’s not trying to be a playboy" I canÂ’t remember who posted that earlier in the season, but it made me laugh and the idea that HowardÂ’s mind is elsewhere has stuck with me. I saw a segment on Channel 4 news on Friday where they were reporting on hipsters with beards. Of course HowardÂ’s grinning mug was amongst the models. This guy has to go in the summer! I believe that our problems have been attributed, in part, to big heads in the dressing room, like Howard, EtoÂ’o and Distin, all of whom are opinionated and the most likely to have been a divisive influence.

Peter Barry
65 Posted 08/03/2015 at 02:40:16
Pedantic, blinkered and stubborn are the words that spring to mind when listening to RobertoÂ’s constant reminders that itÂ’s his way or the highway when it come to playing football. We have all seen what playing Â’hisÂ’ way has done to Everton this season and, as he only promises more of the same, he must go.
Frank Crewe
66 Posted 08/03/2015 at 02:40:33
HeÂ’s lost the fans
HeÂ’s lost the players
HeÂ’s lost the plot

Now if heÂ’d only get lost weÂ’d be happy.

Amanda Huddleston
67 Posted 08/03/2015 at 04:37:18
Not sure the passing game suits the Championship!

Get a grip on reality, Robbie. Points on the board then pretty possession and passing.

Plato Stavrinos
68 Posted 08/03/2015 at 05:57:12
After the game against Stoke I quietly called for Martinez to be sacked but something inside me would accept another season under him. I would like to give the man the opportunity to prove to us his long term plan.

I know we have been woeful in the league and many of you are comparing us to shite but I think we have to also look at Europa and how well we have done compared to how terrible they were. I know some Spurs fans who always complain about how Europa has affected them in previous seasons and letÂ’s face it they have had good strong squads in the past compared to ours this season.

Please letÂ’s just survive this season and hope Martinez can prove that last season wasnÂ’t just a once off.

Anto Byrne
69 Posted 08/03/2015 at 05:49:43
We are now 20-1 to go down. I canÂ’t see where we are going to pick up points in the last 10 games... maybe a few draws and scrape along to 35 points. Perhaps with Ossie and Gibson in the side we can create some chances. Barry McCarthy and Besic just form a seven man defensive shield that does not work.

I canÂ’t believe that since Howard has resumed back in goal we have gone backwards. Not a single clean sheet even against a team from Switzerland? Listening to Neville Southall, he said that he had to manage the players in front of him to make his job easier and each player was different in the way he would manage him.

We had turned the corner: RoblesÂ’s confidence was growing on the back of three clean sheets, he had made some terrific stops but what impressed me was his domination of his area and collecting those high balls into the box. I was warming to this keeper every game he was proving he is capable.

The keeper organises his defence, getting players back to mark each post should one slip through. Bringing everyone back to man up. We lost Stubbs and Weir, our defensive specialists and our midfield man was Alan Irvine. All MoyesÂ’s yes-men but no longer at the club.

What role does Duncan Ferguson play? What sort of wedge would he be getting? Sometime you have to be brutal and let people go who are not performing or not up to the job. I think 28 points from 28 games says that something is wrong, two wins in 14 league games, 3 home wins this season should be 10 as a minimum.

I doubt another manager would play the likes of Naismith, Barry and Howard on current form. Back to the drawing board, back to basics, back to winning games. With 30 points to play for, I would settle for 15. Five wins is a big ask on current form. At what point does Kenwright press the panic button and get someone else in?

Steve Brown
70 Posted 08/03/2015 at 07:46:04
This kind of stubborness will get Roberto the sack....and IÂ’m one of the few one here still willing to give him a chance, despite the atrocious results since the Wolfsberg away game!

It is not a virtue to keep playing the passing game from the centre halves when confidence is completely shot. What is evident is that no-one shows for a pass in midfield; they no longer want the ball. Rodgers decided to adapt his formation and tactics when they hit a trough and they have come back strong.It is not a betrayal of principles, it is good management and if RM does not respond now he will be sacked.We can still play a passing game, but in the opposition half rather than in front of our defence.

Also, there has to be a consequence to playing badly or making repeated errors - I agree completely with Anto @69 that RM discredits himself when he drops Robles as the man in form and picks Howard. How can anyone respect those types of judgement?

Where I disagree is on Naismith - works his arse off, gets in the face of opposition and gets in the refsÂ’ ear. That attitude is what will get us out of this mess, individual leadership on the pitch whrn it is most needed. If we get out of this season in the PL, we need to sign one or two tough characters to put some backbone in this nicey-nicey squad, starting with taking the captaincy off Jagielka.

Michael Evans
71 Posted 08/03/2015 at 08:14:40
With respect, I think either weÂ’re all idiots or RM is in denial.

Know which option my money is on.

John Gee
72 Posted 08/03/2015 at 07:30:06
ItÂ’s funny how managers who are under pressure always talk of a long term vision. ItÂ’s a get out of jail free card they can play when they get sacked. "It would have worked if only IÂ’d been given the time to implement my ideas."

IÂ’d take 3 points on the board crazy gang type football at the moment. Anything to stay up and regroup in the summer. Preferably under a manager who still lives on this planet.

Steve Woods
73 Posted 08/03/2015 at 08:10:37
No wonder the players look so clueless and confused out on the park. Imagine being subjected to that psychobabble every hour of your working day! Get rid.

Vamos camino del desastre!

Christopher Dover
74 Posted 08/03/2015 at 09:21:18
When I read his article and he said he looks to his target and just keeps going, it put a picture in my head of him being in a car traveling from A to B nice straight road all well until a bend, must keep my sights on the target, off road onto fields hills etc car falling to bits till eventually it breaks down and stops.

The breakdown van arrives in a muddy field and when asked why?
RM says "I have a vision my target I will not deviate from my vision"

So if this is true then very afraid Everton will be the car that breaks down and stops, then towed off to the championship never to be seen again.

Daniel Joseph
75 Posted 08/03/2015 at 09:34:27
Asked if his team were guilty of over-passing, he said: "Never. I donÂ’t think you can. You can never over-pass. Passing for the sake of it is not going to take you anywhere. ThereÂ’s a reason behind every pass."


Phil Walling
76 Posted 08/03/2015 at 09:30:38
Â’And was Wigan re-builded here on EvertonÂ’s green and pleasant pitchÂ’ was the ditty that came to mind when I woke up this morning to news that Tom Â’The CrabÂ’ Cleverley was RobertoÂ’s prime target for next season.

Ask any Manu regular and they will tell you that Young Tom is the king of the sideways passers and that a frequent headline was Â’United going nowhere with ClevÂ’.

Should be a dream signing, then, for Our Man as BK gives him another chance to get us relegated !

Sid Logan
77 Posted 08/03/2015 at 09:36:34
Proving conclusively what most of us already know. HeÂ’s not going to change. He has a dream to fulfil and if that should result in our relegation so be it.

If he could point to an ongoing success from his methods he would be convincing. But he canÂ’t and therefore looks crazier than ever. The most frightening thing, of course, is that he has form in this position.

Colin Glassar
78 Posted 08/03/2015 at 09:44:28
Despite the fact that, apparently, the overwhelming majority would seem to want Martinez replaced ASAP, the TW poll gives him 40% full or partial backing. How do you explain that? That is still a decent amount of support.
Ray Roche
79 Posted 08/03/2015 at 10:03:45
Sid, according to Roberto, the fact that he has faced relegation before is in his favour. Read this and weep.

Phil Walling
80 Posted 08/03/2015 at 09:50:45
Colin, to many Evertonians – Blue Bill included – this season has been no more than ’a flirtation’ with relegation as Roberto seeks to impose his style on (primarily) someone else’s players.

Many feel that last season proves that Â’he is a good managerÂ’ and that he was a good appointment. And like BK, they donÂ’t want to be proved wrong!

All the rantings in this interview are regurgitations of the views he expressed whilst with his former club and which were the foundation of my oft expressed dread of what was in store for us IN THE LONG TERM.

He has not disappointed me!

Gavin McGarvey
81 Posted 08/03/2015 at 09:54:35
IÂ’d like to give Martinez my support but he doesnÂ’t make it easy. I donÂ’t want him to abandon passing football, but I think itÂ’s fair enough to ask him to vary his tactics. Two wide men? Not unreasonable if weÂ’re playing two holding midfielders. Two attackers late in games weÂ’re losing/drawing? Again I can see why you wouldnÂ’t play 4-4-2 from the start these days, but it could be a pragmatic option when the chips are down.

I canÂ’t help but be reminded of a crazed sea captain steering his ship towards the rocks. The nervous sailors eyeing the second mate to see if heÂ’ll cosh him and take over the wheel in time. Eugene was calling for us to support him for the last few weeks of the season. ThatÂ’s fair enough and I think itÂ’s indisputable that the team needs support, but thereÂ’s also the question of how far we let this slide before itÂ’s gone too far to do anything about.

ThereÂ’s not a great deal of substance in this article, and what you can glean from it is worrying. I really donÂ’t think it would hurt him to say weÂ’ll do anything we can to win every game between now and the end of the season. He doesnÂ’t have to promise to boot the ball up the field at every opportunity, just try to assuage the nerves of some, quite rightly, very nervy fans. He should be a calming influence now, and I just donÂ’t feel he is. I know he is under an incredible amount of pressure at the minute, but itÂ’s his job to deal with that.

Trevor Peers
82 Posted 08/03/2015 at 10:14:11
Colin, I think your interpretation of the TW poll is somewhat deluded most fans read it as 90% either want him removed or arenÂ’t convinced heÂ’s the man to take us forward.
Phil Walling
83 Posted 08/03/2015 at 10:20:10
Anyway, the Sunday Supplement Â’juryÂ’ of press experts have, this morning, given their verdict.

Â’Martinez is a very good manager.Â’

He got very good marks for inviting HK to Finch Farm to Â’talk to the ladsÂ’. Gawd help us!

George McKane
84 Posted 08/03/2015 at 10:21:16
Just a minute ago watched a fascinating debate on Sky Sunday Supplement on Everton and Martinez. Just around 5 minutes on the subject but interestingly the "pundits/reporter" overwhelmingly said they thought he was a "good manager" but also thought that Everton were in the relegation fight.

Patrick Barclay spoke highly of Martinez and his openness and willingness to listen and talk to people – he cited Kendall, Ferguson (Duncan, that is) – he also mentioned that Martinez believed in the history of Everton and, unlike some managers who "tore down" the old memories, Martinez was based in Everton tradition. Worth watching if you haven’t seen it – On Demand/Catch Up.

I wonder what the reaction would have been for Kendall around the end of 83 beginning of 84 if TW would have been around then? Mmmm....

I knew Howard then and it was a tough time for him and his family but I remember him talking about sticking to his philosophy and principles.

None of this makes the current situation right or better but maybe none of us on here really know what the single reason for this seasons debacle is.

Sometimes we need quick actions sometimes we need to stick together to get through the tough times.

The Newcastle game is sticking out bright and large on my antenna and I believe that we the fans can help the situation that day with loud and great support for the team/club.

LetÂ’s get posso.

Up The Blues.

DJ Staunton
85 Posted 08/03/2015 at 10:07:52
Have started to think there is life in a parallel universe. Not intelligent life, just single cell stuff. Wonder if Mrs. Martinez ever listens to her husband. Word for word, translated in Spanish, his utterances would see him sectioned. A weird fucker.
Kase Chow
86 Posted 08/03/2015 at 10:29:41
HeÂ’ll not get sacked unless itÂ’s certain weÂ’re getting relegated

Bill wonÂ’t pay 㿀M pay off unless itÂ’s to try and safeguard his 𧴜M per year

Phil Walling
87 Posted 08/03/2015 at 10:34:08
Believe you me, George, Martinez plays Â’the Everton legends and traditions gameÂ’ only because it gets him big brownie points with BK. Nothing any of them might say will have influence on his bloody philosophy!
Paul Smith
88 Posted 08/03/2015 at 10:30:42
What a buffoon this fella is, IÂ’ve not seen us play creative football all season just boring and slow possession based football. What gets me is the system we have used since day 1 from this idiot is clearly not working yet he has not tried to change the system just the personnel. Why has he not tried playing with 2 strikers at all from the off in a game especially at home.

The most worrying thing for me is his stubbornness and not being flexible. We have been found out yet he still does nothing to try and throw the opposition a dummy. Every other manager knows our system and pace of play and its so easy to defend against. IÂ’m afraid its time for him to go and get someone in with a bit of passion who can instill that into the team and a bit of tempo.

Ian Brandes
89 Posted 08/03/2015 at 10:42:07
Just wonder about these Â’good footballÂ’ utterances. HavenÂ’t seen much myself. But then I am not a very deluded football manager.

It would be a lot cheaper to pay him off than endure relegation. Would we ever get back?

Not with him!

Ken Buckley
90 Posted 08/03/2015 at 10:46:47
From what I have noted over our present managers reign so far is that he has some great ideas to produce winning football but not the playing staff to realise them.

However he has the playing staff to produce some very good football but has no ideas how to use them.

Somewhere in there lies the problem and the solution.

Dick Fearon
91 Posted 08/03/2015 at 10:55:23
At last, at long frigging last, he speaks the truth. We are in a relegation fight... Yet he will not accept that his fantasy football tactics are dragging us down.
Brian Williams
92 Posted 08/03/2015 at 11:10:42
Long term he says....hopefully that means the end of this season as far as his employment with Everton goes.
Eugene Ruane
93 Posted 08/03/2015 at 10:15:58
Gavin (81) - "Eugene was calling for us to support him for the last few weeks of the season. ThatÂ’s fair enough and I think itÂ’s indisputable that the team needs support, but thereÂ’s also the question of how far we let this slide before itÂ’s gone too far to do anything about."

Not exactly, IÂ’m not for a moment calling for supporters who hate his guts, think heÂ’s shite and want him out, to pretend to be in love with him or post Â’Roberto, what a great managerÂ’

My point was that we have reached a fucking scary stage, where an already underperforming team are entering a phase theyÂ’re unfamiliar with and a stage where Â’successÂ’ (staying up) or not could depend on nerve/s.

My contention is that itÂ’s possible (only possible, not definite) that dropping the bile for a couple of weeks (specially as itÂ’s all been said over and fucking over) might relax a few and might take a tiny bit of pressure off (and definitely wouldnÂ’t be in any way counter-productive).

The difference between staying up and going down could be very fine and given weÂ’re all supporters, I suggest if ever there was a time to do something to Â’supportÂ’ itÂ’s right now.

You add Gavin – "That’s fair enough and I think it’s indisputable that the team needs support, but there’s also the question of how far we let this slide before it’s gone too far to do anything about"


Sorry but if we (collectively) had a say in anything, heÂ’d probably be gone.

But we donÂ’t, so we need to play with the hand weÂ’ve been dealt and if that hand is shite, we need to bluff like fuck.

Currently it seems to me weÂ’re screaming "IÂ’ve got fuck all!"

Brian Harrison
94 Posted 08/03/2015 at 11:17:58
Great to hear that the Charlatan is focused on the future – I think it’s called deflecting the attention away from the here and now.

Just over the last few days he has talked about how the Europa League games may have had an effect, and used it as an excuse to the results in the past 2 games. I would suggest he takes a look at Mourinho: they have progressed in the Champions League, they have won the Carling Cup, and they are odds on to win the Premier League. All done without too many changes to his side, I never hear him talk about tiredness.

Just when I thought things couldnÂ’t get any worse, the papers this morning are suggesting that in the summer if he is still here the charlatan wants to sign Tom Cleverly. When you look at his buys and loans it just sends me into despair. Apart from McCarthy and I still think he has to do a lot more, the rest of his buys are best labelled as ordinary. He said after the ACON tournament that Atsu would play more then he goes and gets Lennon on loan to play in the same position.

Mike Hughes
95 Posted 08/03/2015 at 10:54:03
IÂ’m pretty much lost for words (unlike RM).

IÂ’m all for positivity over negativity but everything has to be grounded in reality. I go to the match in positive mood but often walk away negative due to the reality of what IÂ’ve just witnessed.

This bloke seems to be in cloud cuckoo land.
His visions might well be hallucinations in some spaced-out alternative dimension where goals donÂ’t exist, sideways passing is as essential as breathing and media briefings are the equivalent of going to the toilet.

Clutching at more and more straws as the weeks go by, the latest being the forlorn hope that Villa could be deducted points for that pitch invasion.

IÂ’d still get rid now and certainly donÂ’t want him at EFC next season whatever the outcome of this.

Is it ficklessness? Is it negative?
Well, I care about EFC staying in the top flight as an absolute minimum for our club.
So, for me, itÂ’s neither of those.

I donÂ’t want to cover old ground but RM should be long gone largely because weÂ’ve all got our fingers crossed for teams that should be rivals (the top six) over teams that sadly are rivals (the bottom six).

ThatÂ’s the reality.

Lee Brian
96 Posted 08/03/2015 at 11:03:43
No game this weekend so I got up this morning not afraid to read the sports pages! Logged onto to TW and read about an interview RM had given to a national paper.... My god, IÂ’m going back to bed.

I canÂ’t begin to tell you all how depressed I am with this idiot. No, thatÂ’s not right because he is not a idiot. (Idiot = A person of Profound mental retardation having a mental age of below three.)

If I went through all the issues that are wrong with my beloved club, we would be here all day but letÂ’s try:

1) Passion = Nil (Starts at the top)
2) Fight = Nil (Starts at the top)
3) Aggression = Nil (Starts at the top)
4) Pace = Nil
5) Goals = Not Many
6) Team Selection = Questionable (Howard, Barry, Lukaku etc)
7) No Leaders (on or off the pitch)
8) Round holes, square pegs!
9) Buys = McGeady, Alacraz, Barry, Kone (although he looks okay when played)
10) And finally his after-match interviews = Please Please Please stop talking in riddles and tell it as it is!

I feel like a mushroom: "Kept in the dark & fed on shite."

IÂ’m going back to bed!


Phil Walling
97 Posted 08/03/2015 at 11:44:53
Eugene is right in principle but I donÂ’t think anything said on here has much bearing on how the players feel, react and shape up. ItÂ’s not as though huge numbers of TWers go to games and collectively boo the manager or the dross his team dishes up, is it ?

IÂ’ll follow the money and say that the run in will have to yield less than half-a- dozen points to see us go down although I shall certainly be encouraging the lads to ease any nagging fears by beating the Barcodes for a start.

The Martinez issue can wait until later.

Paul Burns
98 Posted 08/03/2015 at 11:38:37
The lunatics have definitely taken over the asylum. These deluded comments, given the truth on the ground, would get you sacked from any job in the world theyÂ’re so far removed from reality.

Yet, because we appear to lack the boardroom structure of an enterprise the size and complexity needed to run a major football club and are run by proxy by an absentee landlord, there is no one to do the right thing and we are floundering without any leadership of even the basics of a plan.

ItÂ’s frightening how this has been allowed to go on for so long and, to the average fan, there donÂ’t seem to be any answers to the problems. The present depressing situation has been building for decades.

Colin Glassar
99 Posted 08/03/2015 at 11:49:18
Is it safe to say that Leicester, Burnley, QPR and possibly Hull and Sunderland are looking like the five teams that will be fighting for their Premier League lives in April-May?

Two wins and four draws should see us safe on 38 points, pathetic I know, but that looks like how it will pan out this season.

BKÂ’s got a massive decision to make in the summer. LetÂ’s just hope he makes the right one.

Trevor Peers
100 Posted 08/03/2015 at 11:46:29
I keep thinking ahead to the Newcastle game were all watching in grim expectation praying the tactics have changed and we attack with purpose and venom. But alas, 30 minutes of playing it sideways and backwards Newcastle hit us on the counter attack and the inevitable goal leaves us chasing the game. Sound familiar?
Stephen Brown
101 Posted 08/03/2015 at 11:57:14
For what itÂ’s worth I fully agree that we now need a United front of support for the team in the coming weeks. Burnley have it, QPR, Crystal Palace, West Brom and now Villa have the new manager effect. ItÂ’s only Leicester, Sunderland and Hull who are down there with no momentum but they are used to the requirements of a relegation battle. The 6 games at GP need to be as hostile and as uncomfortable for the opposition as possible then in the summer the RM debate can really begin!

I hope all match going fans go in with this mindset and try to make the old lady an uncomfortable place for the visitors not our team - we need to more than ever!

DJ Staunton
102 Posted 08/03/2015 at 11:38:27
ItÂ’s likely Billy Onions will give Bobby another season. Another season of Tim Howard and Gareth Barry. I thought no one asks for a disease...
Ernie Baywood
103 Posted 08/03/2015 at 11:56:00
The support problem is probably the one that has me worried most.

I don’t see this lot suddenly relaxing into great football if the crowd stop sighing. In fact, I don’t want them relaxed – I want them fighting like wounded animals.

I think back to the Wimbledon game. That was amazing – Goodison can be so intimidating at times. Can you imagine it getting like that on the last day this season? I don’t see this team fighting like that team did...

Andrew Cunningham
104 Posted 08/03/2015 at 11:53:20
This guy is a clown. We were lucky to draw with Leicester ffs. Let’s get behind the team and get us to safety... and when – and only when – that is guaranteed, you can then get your ’Martinez Out’ banners.
Ray Roche
105 Posted 08/03/2015 at 11:50:26
Eugene is right. I posted last week or so that no-one will perform at their best if, say, their gaffer or anyone else is looking over their shoulder and shouting abuse at them. Granted, the crap weÂ’ve had to put up with this season makes it difficult to always be as positive as soft lad Manuel is, but the players may still be here next season and he may be gone. They need us behind them supporting them, not having them filling their kecks every time they get the ball. That is a sure way to relegation.

With luck, Bill Fawlty will hoof Manuel up his hoop and out of the door at the seasonÂ’s end and we can move on with a manager who knows what heÂ’s doing.

Colin Glassar
106 Posted 08/03/2015 at 12:17:10
I agree Andrew, letÂ’s get mathematically safe first and then give it to him/them with both barrels. In the ground, that is.
Phil Walling
107 Posted 08/03/2015 at 12:19:12
Well said, Andrew!
Eugene Ruane
108 Posted 08/03/2015 at 11:55:43
Mike Hughes (95) - I donÂ’t disagree with any of that, or your final line - Â’thatÂ’s the realityÂ’

But if I think thereÂ’s the remotest possibility, that not shouting the reality for a couple of weeks, might have even the tiniest, tiniest positive effect (yes I know itÂ’s not going to guarantee 10 wins) then that is something IÂ’m prepared to do.

Is skipping ultimately pointless, incredibly repetitive, angry, possibly counter-productive venting for a couple of weeks asking too much?

ThatÂ’s for each individual to decide but IÂ’m prepared to give it (anything!) a go right now.

And the one thing I know for sure is that it definitely canÂ’t hurt.

Rob Halligan
109 Posted 08/03/2015 at 12:29:19
Watching Barcelona rip Rayo Vallecano apart. Currently 5-0. Barcelona seem a lot more direct these days. If Martinez wants us to play like Barcelona then I hope heÂ’s watching this game.
Peter Carpenter
110 Posted 08/03/2015 at 12:24:30
"You can never over-pass" – what about when a player has the ball (Barkley, for example) 20 yards out with a clear shooting chance, passes sideways to another player (Naismith, for example) who has a slightly less clear shooting chance and he passes it sideways again to another player (McCarthy, for example) with a worse shooting chance and he passes it out wide to a player (Coleman, for example) with no shooting chance.

Is that not over-passing? And is that comment not just complete garbage?

Barry Lambert
111 Posted 08/03/2015 at 12:25:15
All very interesting. A clearly articulate young man. I remember as a toddler my parents would read me a bedtime story which send me blissfully to sleep. I am beginning to notice a similar effect every time I listen to RobertoÂ’s visits to Fantasyland.

It grieves me to say it but I think that enough is enough and we need to look elsewhere for a new leader – preferably somewhere in the real world.

Trevor Peers
112 Posted 08/03/2015 at 12:23:31
IF the players can respond to the fans and play with real passion, I think we have a chance. They need to disregard the managers BS and attack!!!
Steve Carse
113 Posted 08/03/2015 at 12:20:16
Ray, how does this crowd-getting-on-their-backs thing square with our pathetic away performances. Despite the fantastic quality of our away support IÂ’d doubt very much that it is such as to audibly turn players into nervous wrecks.

I echo ErnieÂ’s (103) concerns over the support should survival go right down to the last game. The frenzied atmospheres at both the Wimbledon and Coventry do-or-die games went a long way towards securing our PL status. Would it be reproduced under the stupefying boredom of a Martinez game plan? No way. Irrespective of the critical nature of the game, that important edge to the support would be sapped out of the crowd, with disastrous consequences.

Denis Richardson
114 Posted 08/03/2015 at 12:37:04
I honestly donÂ’t know whether to laugh or cry having read this interview. I hope BK feels the same way.

Can someone please print out the league table and send it to RM. Accompanied by a couple of footnotes; 5 clean sheets out of 28 games and no goals in 5 of the 9 league games in 2015.

Think weÂ’d just like a couple of really really boring 1.0 wins right now.

Tony Draper
115 Posted 08/03/2015 at 12:25:04
Daniel @75
That sealed it for me mate.

"Never. I donÂ’t think you can. You can never over-pass. Passing for the sake of it is not going to take you anywhere. ThereÂ’s a reason behind every pass." (30 words)

Roberto mate, that is self contradicting bullshit!

Had you said:
" You can. Passing for the sake of it is not going to take you anywhere. There always has to be a reason behind every pass."
(25 words)

Then youÂ’d have made a valid coherent point. But you didnÂ’t, and whatÂ’s more it took you five more words to do it...........see what I did there ?

May I also add that every time a team scores that they automatically lose possession?
Hope that helps.

John Gee
116 Posted 08/03/2015 at 12:35:26
Newcastle without Cisse average just over a point a game. We average a point a game. Smart money looks like a draw.

Eugene is right. ItÂ’s time to break out the songs and give encouragement to the players. Adopt the Wimbledon game spirit and get all Churchillian "never have so many contributed so much to so few who are being asked to contribute so much more than their previous contribution to so many" or something or other.

Sid Logan
117 Posted 08/03/2015 at 12:32:15
I agree with Eugene and Andrew. Having said that when youÂ’re at the game and your nerves take over as another debacle starts to unfold on the pitch is hard.

Personally I never boo and never will but sometimes the grounds anxiety is overwhelming even if itÂ’s simply through silent dread.

But IÂ’m going to follow this mantra during the game quite simply because itÂ’s sensible! Not for the benefit of Martinez but for the club and for us. IÂ’m going to ooze massive positive vibes until weÂ’re safe and will try to encourage all those around me in Lower Bullens to do the same.

What happens when weÂ’re safe will need further thought but thanks for another day!

David Cromwell
118 Posted 08/03/2015 at 12:53:30
WhereÂ’s the fucken chairman???

He should be lighting a fire under Martinez and his charges arses. Coming out and acknowledging results are poor, and continued failure will not be tolerated would go a long way in my book.

If the gaffer can afford the time to talk shite like in this Telegraph article, Bullshit Billy can too.

David Graves
119 Posted 08/03/2015 at 12:37:35
Ken @ 90 - good posting. LetÂ’s hope it doesnÂ’t prove to be some form of epitaph.
Mike Hughes
120 Posted 08/03/2015 at 12:14:30
Supporting Everton and wanting RM out are not mutually exclusive. I sing / scream my head off for (not at) the team but, given that this thread is about RMÂ’s long term vision (God help us), commenting on that is relevant.

Also, given that this is a website / bulletin board for Evertonians to express their opinion (rather than the OS or some other public forum) I assumed it was blindingly obvious that it has bugger all impact on the club, manager, players etc.

I doubt very much that they read this stuff otherwise Ossie would have (unfairly) been in some recovery clinic years ago with Hibbo (unfairly) whimpering in the next padded cell.

The same goes for rallying calls of support on here. They are just as nonsense. Personally, I donÂ’t know any Blues who go to slag the players / manager off. They go to support the team.

And before anyone says what about the atmosphere at GP? Well, thereÂ’s cause and effect in play there. And thatÂ’s down to our visionary manager as well. HeÂ’s turned 3pm on a Saturday into the graveyard shift.

IÂ’m not saying the atmosphere canÂ’t be improved, like, but the team has to play its part in that as well - hopefully starting against Newcastle.

Peter Mills
121 Posted 08/03/2015 at 13:03:54
IÂ’ve just been reading about Bill ClintonÂ’s approach to an election campaign - "you gotta fight like youÂ’re gonna lose it". The most disconcerting thing about our current situation is the complacency, that all that is required is to pass the ball about.

We look pretty much guaranteed to concede at least one goal a game, and have too few shots to score two. That is a very dangerous equation.

I agree with the calls for positivity amongst all of us, but it would sure as hell be helped by some fight on the pitch.

Kevin Rowlands
122 Posted 08/03/2015 at 13:06:58
"Tim has had a very strong season", IÂ’ll tell you what, IÂ’d hate to see what a weak TH season would look like, you have to wonder what the players are thinking when they read this shite, completely delusional in my opinion.
Mike Hughes
123 Posted 08/03/2015 at 13:13:37
I agree with not having a go at players during the game.

Just for the record IÂ’ve only slagged-off two EFC players during a match in my life.

The first was Glen Keeley (I was in the Gwladys St End that night and had a good view).

The second was James Beattie (the Chelsea headbutt) which was right beneath my seat in the TB.

(Sorry to bring these memories back).

Andy Meighan
124 Posted 08/03/2015 at 13:02:09
Like I’ve said on many occasions, he talks loads but says absolutely nothing. "Creative football" — what an insult; we’ve created nothing all season. I’ve seen one decent pass at Goodison all season: Gibson to Mirallas against Young Boys — that’s the sum total of our creativity all season... one pass!!!

I said before the Arsenal game we wonÂ’t score another away goal for the rest of the season. Two games down the line and IÂ’ve seen nothing to make me change that view. Unless we get a penalty, we certainly wonÂ’t score from open play.

We’ve actually got quite a favourable run in on paper but the way we are set up you wouldn’t back us to beat anyone. Forget the away games, we’ll be lucky to get a couple of goalless draws. Forget Spurs and Man Utd at home – they’ll beat us, that leaves us with Newcastle Utd, Burnley and Sunderland to beat and as we’ve only shockingly won 3 home games all season, it doesn’t exactly inspire optimism.

As for the Spaniard’s comments about Howard, I honestly think he’s having a go at us there... Basically, reading between the lines, he’s saying "Look, I know he’s fucked up a few times but I’m the manager – don’t tell me who and who not to pick." I don’t how many times I’ve heard since Howard got back in we’ve been shite but nearly every blue I speak to says it.

The Spaniard insults my intelligence with his inane and bizarre comments and IÂ’m fucking sick of him. If we do go down, him and his bunch of shit players wonÂ’t hang round... whereas weÂ’ll still be Evertonians.

Declan Brown
125 Posted 08/03/2015 at 13:27:41
Colin (106) beat me to it.

Get behind the players, turn Goodison into a bear pit for the last 6 home games (hard I know, considering how dull and insipid the football is, but weÂ’re in big trouble now and itÂ’s needs must), if we could scrape enough points in the first 4 of those games and then let Kenwright know at the last 2 games that we want Martinez out in the summer. I donÂ’t hate the guy I just think heÂ’s out of his depth, has lost the plot as well as the players and the fans!

I genuinely think the pressure has got to him and heÂ’s rudderless, heÂ’s talking like managers at the end of the line do, sounding desperate and detached, that canÂ’t see whatÂ’s in front of them and making strange decisions, his words in the last 2 months have been enough for the men in white coats to come calling for him.

I donÂ’t fancy having to beat Spurs on the last day to have a hope of staying up. Although IÂ’d love to have Pochettino as our manager but heÂ’s out of our league.

We need to find the next Joe Royle (for motivating the team, organising it, getting them fit, combative,competitive and who the players are willing to play for). IÂ’ve suggested Mark Hughes but weÂ’ll leave that one, nobody but me wants him!

Someone with the good stuff of Moyes but without the fear, who doesnÂ’t bottle the big games and has more attacking flair. Seems to be so impossible for us!

ItÂ’s a sorry mess, like WalterÂ’s last days.

Andrew Cunningham
126 Posted 08/03/2015 at 13:19:40
Nice response, Mike Hughes, but I donÂ’t think any Evertonian wants this to end in tears and tears it may be with this guy in charge. Whilst I admire your composure and wish I had it the rallying cries are out of desperation and frustration. Anyway, hereÂ’s to a better blue future.
Ray Roche
127 Posted 08/03/2015 at 13:41:43
Steve Carse @113

Steve, our away support is the envy of the League. And IÂ’m sure you are aware that weÂ’ve won as many times away as we have at home, but I think youÂ’re argument sort of falls apart when you admit that the support at the Wimbledon and Coventry games helped us over the line.

Regardless of whether Roberto is in charge or not, and I imagine that he will be, should it go to the wire we will need to give the same incredible support we had versus Wimbledon. (I think that day was second only to the Bayern game for atmosphere and certainly more emotional.) But wouldnÂ’t it be better if we helped the team, starting with the Newcastle game?

Michael Winstanley
128 Posted 08/03/2015 at 13:48:48
I love the timid optimism on here, I used to have a bucket of it.

I agree with Martinez on his philosophy, style and future plans for our club to be able to compete in the future. He has a model for our football where we will produce players to play in a possession based style.

I love all of that, I agree our youth are gaining massive experience and as long as we donÂ’t get relegated we should see progression next season with results and performances.

However, the is one major stumbling block along this road, teams know how to play us and we donÂ’t have the savvy to counter it. I would love us to beat Newcastle but if they play like everyone else who rocks up to Goodison we know itÂ’s unlikely.

We have the best squad weÂ’ve had in years, I do believe the players want the system/style to succeed (as we all do) but the proof lies in the results, it doesnÂ’t work in the Premier League.

ItÂ’s all very well saying next season or the season after weÂ’ll be in a much stronger position but the league is ruthless. ItÂ’s a difficult one, hope we survive until the players master the system or get rid and hope the next manager implements a style that suits our players.

IÂ’d sack him if we donÂ’t beat Newcastle.

Dave Abrahams
129 Posted 08/03/2015 at 14:21:04
Mike (123) Mike why was you having a go at Glen Keeley, the lad hadnÂ’t played for about four or five weeks, maybe more, Kendall was the one you should have been having a go at for picking him.
Finn Taylor
130 Posted 08/03/2015 at 14:16:34
Martinez reminds me of the Captain of the Titanic after they hit the Iceberg... ’Don’t worry... stay on board, were nearer New York than you think – well make it’

Stop talking about the past and the future... deal with the present.

Dave Abrahams
131 Posted 08/03/2015 at 14:29:02
If Martinez has the team playing positively from the off, the crowd will be right behind the team, no doubt whatsoever, so it is up to Bobby.
David Hallwood
132 Posted 08/03/2015 at 14:41:54
I wish I could agree with Martinez but the proof of the pudding etc. thereÂ’s little doubt in my mind that the biggest factor in our season is confidence and my biggest worry that itÂ’s beginning to spiral out of control.

If you take out nearest and dearest across Stanley park, just before Christmas the cockney Norwegians were calling for BrendaÂ’s head cos they were playing as shite as we were.

Yes he changed the system but more importantly they started to win and confidence started to flow through the side. Players like Henderson who most of my RS mates hate with a passion has started to look like world beaters.

ItÂ’s this lack of analysis of the situation that worries me about RM. Yes I believe in the passing game, and I donÂ’t buy into the theory that weÂ’ve been sussed out. But the passing game only works with confidence is high and the ballÂ’s being zipped around and everyoneÂ’s wants it.

WhatÂ’s happening at present is that, yes itÂ’s a passing game, a 3-yard "donÂ’t give it to me FFS" ball that nobody wants to receive and wants to get shut ASAP. Now RM must see this and change accordingly otherwise weÂ’re in danger of going down. We wouldnÂ’t be the first Â’too good to go downÂ’ and we wouldnÂ’t be the last.

Helen Mallon
133 Posted 08/03/2015 at 14:59:34
Why cant Michael Kenrick or Lyndon Lloyd get an article into a daily paper discussing the feelings of Evertonians and how we see our games and playing style and just how crap it has been all season?
Mike Hughes
134 Posted 08/03/2015 at 15:02:35
Dave (129)

You are probably right. However, HK did redeem himself for what, in hindsight, appears to be the wrong decision of a derby match debut (I think GK was on loan as well).

I just didnÂ’t get how a professional footballer did not know the rules of the game (the professional foul rule had just come in) costing us the heaviest humiliation against the rs in my lifetime. I only slagged him off at that point by the way.

In a baying Gwladys Street End, in a derby match with a couple of beers inside me, I just wasnÂ’t thinking that rationally.

John Daley
135 Posted 08/03/2015 at 15:07:02
"the passing game only works with confidence is high and the ballÂ’s being zipped around and everyoneÂ’s wants it"

Exactly right David.

The problem with our passing game is the amount of touches each player needs before they move the ball on. To be effective it needs to be one or two touches at most. Our lot seem to take one touch to bring it under control, another touch to move forward, another touch while they look up, one last touch after they do that daft (Jagielka patented) little shimmy where they look like theyÂ’re switching from Â’hanging to the leftÂ’ to Â’hanging to the rightÂ’ without using any hands, and then go Â’ah, fuck it, you have it and decide what we do next because iÂ’m goosedÂ’.

Paul Smith
136 Posted 08/03/2015 at 15:51:36
ThereÂ’s been a million and one comments on how bad we think RM is doing. Again showing what a great way to vent frustration TW is. Things were just calming down (Eugene alluded to it earlier) then RM loads some more bullets for us.

Bizarre interview.

Bob Heyward
137 Posted 08/03/2015 at 15:55:37
Oh dear me! Can someone from the ClubÂ’s PR office tell El Pied Piper that weÂ’re all (well, all but three) on to him, perhaps before they ban all future BS sessions?

IÂ’m sure his tosh is affecting the players. I mean, we all know itÂ’s phoney nonsense, so I guess the lads do to. Be interesting to hear the truth from the players once Martinez gets the bullet...fairly sure Buzz and a few others would love to spill the beans.

Andy Crooks
138 Posted 08/03/2015 at 15:48:26
Do players read this site? If I was a player I certainly would. Many years ago the first item I ever wrote on this site was entitled, I think, "does ToffeeWeb matter", I was actually concerned that the negativity could dent their confidence. Well, IÂ’ve changed my tune since then.

Sometimes it angers me when outsiders including journalists, donÂ’t see it with Martinez. I have pals who are not Evertonians who think he is great. I happen to think that big Sam is doing a good job at West Ham but apparently he is detested on their fan sites.

Right now, after a few days to calm down, IÂ’m with Eugene on this. I fear, however, that defeat against Newcastle will have me battering the keys, veins standing out on forehead, physically feeling the blood pressure rise, demanding his head. ItÂ’s madness because heÂ’s going nowhere. If he keeps us safe, Bill will see it as a blip and heÂ’ll still be here next season.

I see the poll has now dropped to 61% wanting him gone. Your influence, Eugene?

Sid Logan
140 Posted 08/03/2015 at 16:05:09
It is completely beyond me why anyone would vote to keep Martinez. Clealrly they see this season as the blip and last season as the norm.

IÂ’ve said a few time on TW that last seasonÂ’s team had Moyes drive, discipline, probably training legacy and etc coupled with a touch of sin miedo belief.

What we now have is a team motivated, trained, set up and all the other factors which a manager can affect which 100% belongs to Martinez. The reason Martinez is failing and will continue to do so is because he lacks the one thing which to a greater or lesser extent all the very best Managers have – a ruthless streak. This includes his team selection, his desire to win, his training methods and most importantly his ability to motivate.

As an aside IÂ’m writing this while watching the recorded pre-match discussion prior to the Liverpool v Blackburn game. Listening to how Brenda changed thing around when they were going badly. I wonder what thoughts pass through MartinezÂ’ mind when he hears that sort of comment. Probably nothing!

Martinez doesn’t need to talk about that basest of all emotions – that cheap thrill loved by so many of the mass of supporters – the need to win. He is focused on a higher plane. Possession, passing, passing and passing again.

How can he ever expect supporters to recognise the truth, the beauty of football as it should be played – something that maybe only he he can see. They may, of course never understand and perhaps if they can’t see what he sees it then they really don’t deserve him. Until such time as he is at a club where winning and the need to have shots on goal isn’t so important he will have to remain unappreciated and yes, maybe unloved – but extremely well paid!

Darren Hind
141 Posted 08/03/2015 at 15:46:51
The guy is utterly clueless. Its as if he started to read "How to Play the passing game", but never got past the first couple of paragraphs.

How on earth are we supposed to play a passing game if we donÂ’t have anyone to link attack to defence ?

Play it into Lukaku and he will try to control it with his shins.
Give it to Naismith and he will try a trick he isnÂ’t good enough to pull off. Mirallas cares only about Mirallas, Barkley has been ruined by being asked to play here there and everywhere. Kone doesnt get a chance .. .who is/are our link player/s ? who are the more advanced players who can actually make the ball stick . . and if we donÂ’t have any HOW THE FUCK ARE WE A "PASSING TEAM" ? WE ARE FUCK ALL OF THE SORT.

If Martinez really understands what it takes to play football he will boost Barkleys confidence by telling him he will play number ten for every remaining game of the season, he will have Ossie lined up for the last half hour of every game . He will release the shackles on the full backs and he will never start Naismith or Mcgeady again.

He wont do any of that of course. He will persevere with the three tackling machines he has brought in to protect the defence. he will turn a blind eye to the brainless balls they play into a centre forward who hates playing with his back to goal and he will continue to scratch his head as every artless attack breaks down before it becomes worthy of the name.

If Martinez really does know how to make us beautiful, why are we so fucking pug ugly

Vinny Garstrokes
142 Posted 08/03/2015 at 17:13:48
But how did we all feel after MoyesÂ’s second season?

Just Sayin!

Neil Gribbin
143 Posted 08/03/2015 at 17:11:15
He is an idiot.
A very nice, smiley, charming idiot. But still an idiot.
Phil Walling
144 Posted 08/03/2015 at 17:19:21
Probably the only thing I have EVER wtitten in RobertoÂ’s defence but I do, honestly, belief he could have expected more than a paltry SEVEN league goals from Romelu.

I know we shall hear much about poor service but he must have missed at least a dozen Â’sittersÂ’ which could well have turned the tide in the relevant games.

It all down to the manager The players must hold some responsibility for such a shit season.
( Although we mustnÂ’t upset them by showing any displeasure, poor darlings !)

Phil Walling
145 Posted 08/03/2015 at 17:32:11
Correction : Â’ItÂ’s not all down to the manager......Â’
Richard Lyons
146 Posted 08/03/2015 at 17:31:36
My son is severely dyslexic. So, tell you what, because I would love him to develop a passion for reading the likes of Dickens and Tolstoy, thatÂ’s what IÂ’m going to give him to read now. He will probably fail his English GCSE, but hey, at least I will have stuck to my principles. IÂ’m sure heÂ’ll appreciate that...
Sid Logan
147 Posted 08/03/2015 at 17:38:37
Richard. Very noble of you. Never allow reality to get in the way of lofty ideals.

What do these philistines know anyway?

Eugene Ruane
148 Posted 08/03/2015 at 17:19:59
Andy (138) - " see the poll has now dropped to 61% wanting him gone. Your influence, Eugene?"

You might be right.

Because if it was my influence, it would prove something IÂ’ve thought for a long time - that there are many who read posts, dismiss half of it, put some spin on the other half, then react to their own garbled version.

For the record my has contained two incredibly simple arguments.

1) Once someone has posted Â’Martinez is useless, Martinez should resign, Martinez should be sackedÂ’, repeating this on the hour, every hour, every day is as boring as fuck (by the way, idiot, clown, nob-head, prick, doesnÂ’t constitute a new spin on things).

2) Should the possibility exist that players, from time to time, look at TW, it might be better if, over the next two or three weeks (when nerves will be jangling and we need ALL the help we can get) they see articles about Tony Cottee or the strengths/weaknesses of future opposition or Europa or basically anything that isnÂ’t "GRRRFUCKINGUSELESSGRRRR!!!!"

So anyone who takes from that Â’Vote Roberto!Â’ is, to quote Voltaire, as thick as shite.

Paul Tran
149 Posted 08/03/2015 at 17:46:50
ItÂ’s lovely that Martinez is so committed to attacking, passing football. DoesnÂ’t explain why weÂ’ve hardly seen any of it this season.

Oh dear............

Paul Tran
150 Posted 08/03/2015 at 17:51:46
Phil, his saving grace may be that Kenwright has the same view. It may be that seeing his smiling face when they come back in the summer may focus a few minds.

In the meantime, I think IÂ’ll contact Martinez for some Cheltenham tips - he can definitely see things I canÂ’t!

Sid Logan
151 Posted 08/03/2015 at 17:50:47

I donÂ’t mind trying to be positive at the game but If you think we should refrain from upsetting any players who may deem to read TW you have IÂ’m afraid got another think coming.

This is our right! The team and the manager put us through this shit and we must surely reserve the right to vent our wrath! Notice no bold type!

Darren Hind
152 Posted 08/03/2015 at 18:00:55
Maybe Mr Mole tells him Paul ):
George McKane
153 Posted 08/03/2015 at 18:02:10
There is an interesting story about the great Greek Philosopher Thales who was walking along and thinking and staring up st the stars . He then fell into a well and was rescued by his maid.
Eugene Ruane
154 Posted 08/03/2015 at 18:01:48
Sid (151) - "Eugene If you think we should refrain from upsetting any players who may deem to read TW you have IÂ’m afraid got another think coming. This is our right! The team and the manager put us through this shit and we must surely reserve the right to vent our wrath! Notice no bold type!"

Well at least youÂ’re honest - Â’fuck sense, I wanna vent me wrath ladÂ’

Anyway, IÂ’ve said what I felt I needed to, IÂ’ll be posting no more on this, some will get it, some (see above) see nothing as more important than their venting rights.

Up to each individual to do what they think will be most helpful over the next few weeks to create an atmosphere that will help the players deliver their very best.

Up the Toffees!

Phil Walling
155 Posted 08/03/2015 at 18:24:20
As you said, Eugene, you donÂ’t want us repeating ourselves, do you?
Sid Logan
156 Posted 08/03/2015 at 18:20:32

IsnÂ’t venting our wrath what we all do on here? Some of it with a degree of common sense and some not.

Let’s hope some – as you obviously do – get it. Those of us of a lower caste can go fuck themselves!

Ray Roche
157 Posted 08/03/2015 at 18:29:05
"Thick as shite."

Did Voltaire really say that?

Cripes, heÂ’s not the man I thought he was. Very disappointed in him.

Rick Tarleton
158 Posted 08/03/2015 at 18:19:24
In some abstract, theoretical universe, yes, it is better to win like Barcelona than like Chelsea. However, you have to earn that right by winning and imposing your style on the opposition. If you play like Martinez and lose, the style becomes an irrelevance because the losing dominates. This is what Martinez does not understand. Barcelona works because they have Messi, Iniesta and Xavi at his peak. EvertonÂ’s replicating of the style does not work because we have Mirallas, Lukaku, Barry etc.

Van Gaal – another advocate of possession at all costs football, I believe they’ve passed back to their goalie more often than any other team, even Everton – said in today’s Observer that the new playmakers aren’t in midfield, they are your central defenders: he’s got Jones, Smalling and Evans, God help him and he can’t see that you have to change the system because the personnel are inadequate for the system.

Continuing his idea, weÂ’ve got, Stones (possibly he could do it), Jagielka and Distin. Martinez, like the hugely esteemed Van Gaal, believes the system is sacrosanct and the players, irrespective of their skills and ability, must play the decreed system. The result is teams that hugely under-perform, especially when compared to the pragmatic approach of Chelsea and the like.

Being a purist is not the way forward for a football manager. The managers like Pulis, Hughes and Allardyce will soon put paid to this fancy-dan approach. A boxer needs a serviceable punch; just skill won’t do it. My uncle, the great Nel Tarleton, had the skill and a modicum of a punch would have made him World Champion, similarly with Howard Winstone and a host of others. Martinez wants us to play a style, he almost doesn’t care if the big hitters and the counter-punchers destroy us. Save us from such idiots or prophets – you choose the word.

Kevin Davies
159 Posted 08/03/2015 at 18:19:52
Eugene @148, are you quite sure that quote is attributed to Voltaire? Sounds more like a northern saying to me... someone likethat great northern philosopher Brian Glover perhaps!!!
Sid Logan
160 Posted 08/03/2015 at 18:34:57

Voltaire had a very nasty mouth which he used to try disguise with wit and satire!

Ian Riley
161 Posted 08/03/2015 at 18:28:21
How lucky Wigan fans were; it took him 4 seasons to relegate them!

Reading his thoughts, I started to think itÂ’s me! How can we boo the players? TheyÂ’re following orders. They must be as frustrated as us!

Only one outcome with him in charge!

Rick Tarleton
162 Posted 08/03/2015 at 18:44:19
Voltaire recognised that killing an admiral was a price you had to pay. Forgive me for the aberrant apostrophe in my post above.
Mike Hughes
163 Posted 08/03/2015 at 18:29:07
Ah, some poor footballer might read something they donÂ’t like on the internet.

What are they made of - China?

ThatÂ’ll be the regular columnists - Michael Kenrick, Lyndon Lloyd and Ken Buckley all walking on egg shells now. Or putting a positive RM polish on the potential turd-fest theyÂ’ve just watched.

Why not simply close all Everton websites down for the rest of the season in case we tread on any delicate egos?

Alternatively, if you don’t like the content, why waste time here? (Players included.) Or buy newspapers as well for that matter – because they can’t be too glowing in their reports on EFC players.

At the match itÂ’s different but the idea of an Â’independent EFC websiteÂ’ is surely to state what you think.

Or are we aiming for Anfield Group Think now?

Complete and utter garbage.

Patrick Murphy
164 Posted 08/03/2015 at 18:49:12
Perhaps a few Voltaire quotes could be useful to us all on TW.

Faith consists in believing when it is beyond the power of reason to believe.

Each player must accept the cards life deals him or her: but once they are in hand, he or she alone must decide how to play the cards in order to win the game.

Life is thickly sown with thorns, and I know no other remedy than to pass quickly through them. The longer we dwell on our misfortunes, the greater is their power to harm us.

Trevor Peers
165 Posted 08/03/2015 at 18:35:48
Good point, Rick, but it will be lost on Martinez his doctrine only allows a team to play one way, its ridiculous for a club with Everton s resources and playing staff to play that way (ie, like Barca) and survive.

So how did he sell his vision to our gullible chairman in the first place? Quite easily I imagine, I bet Bills eyes were watering with inspiration when Roberto went into his interview/audition for the job. Yukkkkkkk!

Colin Glassar
166 Posted 08/03/2015 at 18:46:26
Andy Crooks, "Do players read this site?".

Andy, if they did, then between RobertoÂ’s overbearing enthusiasm and the doom and gloom on here I think they would start to suffer from acute schizophrenia. Let the poor buggers enjoy their Play Stations and trips to NandoÂ’s. They donÂ’t give a toss what fans think.

Eugene Ruane
167 Posted 08/03/2015 at 18:38:29
Ray (157) - "thick as shite" Did Voltaire really say that?"

Well okay, he said ’aussi épais que la merde’ – think he was advocating human rights at the time and the Catholics weren’t having it (he lied).

Oh to have such a man around today... although maybe not.

Le TW thread: ’Voltaire, Satirical Polemicist or nob-head?’ – The fucking wigged French twat has lost the fucking plot. He said he’d separate the church from the state yet all the fucking clown has done is..." (Zzzzzz)

Ray Roche
168 Posted 08/03/2015 at 18:52:48
Andy Crooks, "Do players read this site?"

I think youÂ’ll find that somebody reads it to them.......

Phil Walling
169 Posted 08/03/2015 at 18:47:17
In days of Moyes, people said they would rather we lost 3-4 than triumph with KITAHTN1.

They lied.

Sid Logan
170 Posted 08/03/2015 at 18:57:39
Golly gosh Ray - I hope they remove the expletives when these comments are read to the players because they need always to be in a good moment!
Patrick Murphy
171 Posted 08/03/2015 at 18:58:57
We donÂ’t lose 3-4 though do we Phil, we have failed to score in many of our recent games and look unlikely to do so. What Roberto has managed to achieve is an even more defensive set-up that canÂ’t defend and leaves the forwards even more isolated than Moyes ever managed.

Many of us thought that Roberto was going to unleash the inhibitions of this group of players but instead he has managed to make them even less expressive and nervous than many of us expected. Anyway we are where we are and weÂ’ll have to hope that things alter considerably in the next few months and perhaps even years.

Eugene Ruane
172 Posted 08/03/2015 at 18:53:12
Kevin (159) - YouÂ’re right, it WAS Brian Glover. IÂ’m always getting those two mixed up (not just those two either, the times IÂ’ve thought I was quoting Churchill only to have it pointed out, Â’that wasnÂ’t Churchill, that was Duncan Â’Chase MeÂ’ Norvelle!Â’).
Ray Roche
173 Posted 08/03/2015 at 19:09:14
I love it when ToffeeWeb goes all daft...
Phil Walling
174 Posted 08/03/2015 at 19:06:29
Patrick, I think he did it well enough last season (release the playersÂ’ inhibitions) and there were times even I was prepared to say I had under-rated him.

Sad to say, IN THE LONG TERM I hadnÂ’t, though !

Sid Logan
175 Posted 08/03/2015 at 19:12:02

ToffeeWeb exists both for us to vent our wrath and when things get really bleak to exercise our daftness.

Only in this way can we preserve our sanity.

Sid Logan
177 Posted 08/03/2015 at 19:16:06
Voltaire said that!
Matt Williams
178 Posted 08/03/2015 at 18:53:41
A few years ago Tony Mowbray brought WBA up and saw an interview with him and he said he wouldnÂ’t abandon his football principles to stay in the Premier League; I turned to my mate and said "If I was their chairman, IÂ’d sack him." Martinez is basically saying the same thing.

I applaud wanting to play attacking possession football (if that was what we were getting), but now is the time to win by any means. If we can get a couple of results then go back to trying to pass the ball if thatÂ’s what heÂ’s hell bent on.

I would have sacked him after Hull away but IÂ’d send him on his way today if he happily admits his vision is more important than my club.

Rick Tarleton
179 Posted 08/03/2015 at 19:19:03
Larkin last week, Voltaire today and some of you want to talk about Everton
Phil Walling
180 Posted 08/03/2015 at 19:23:16
We shall be debating the merits of Raspberry Ketone if it gets much dafter !
Sid Logan
181 Posted 08/03/2015 at 19:22:39
Not me Rick IÂ’ve entered a happy phase!
Ray Roche
182 Posted 08/03/2015 at 19:23:37

No he didnÂ’t. But he should have, makes more sense than some stuff on here.

Patrick Murphy
183 Posted 08/03/2015 at 19:27:31
Squad for next Sunday should be:–
Friedrich Nitzche; Confucius, Avicenna; Francis Bacon, Plato; Thomas Aquinas, Aristotle, David Hume, John Stuart Mill; Boethius, Seneca the Younger

Subs: Cicero; Rene Descartes; Baruch Spinoza; Saint Bonaventure; Claude Levi-Strauss, John Rawls.

Ray Said
184 Posted 08/03/2015 at 19:29:24
And one Kant on the touchline!!
Rick Tarleton
185 Posted 08/03/2015 at 19:27:45
Seriously Martinez and Kenwright are arses of the highest order, if it wasnÂ’t for Evertonians weÂ’d all end up seriously depressed and suicidal.

[DonÂ’t anyone say they are!]

Patrick Murphy
186 Posted 08/03/2015 at 19:34:40
My final word on this topic but Roberto got all of his ideas from watching this as a young lad growing up in his home town.

World Cup

Rick Tarleton
187 Posted 08/03/2015 at 19:36:18
Hi, Patrick, I reckon, Joe Locke should be in the squad.
Colin Glassar
188 Posted 08/03/2015 at 19:36:22
No Hegel, Patrick?
Colin Glassar
189 Posted 08/03/2015 at 19:37:39
Or Plato? Disgraceful team. Totally lacking in ideas!!
Kevin Davies
190 Posted 08/03/2015 at 19:35:09
Patrick @183, WHAT!!! No place between the sticks for Brian Glover or a number 9 spot for Duncan "chase me" Norvelle!!!??? ......... OUTRAGEOUS!!!!
John Crawley
191 Posted 08/03/2015 at 19:33:59
Martinez reminds me of Thaddeus Stevens in the movie Lincoln who wants the abolition of slavery. He is debating with Lincoln about the merits of his approach and Lincoln says: "A compass, I learned when I was surveying, itÂ’ll... itÂ’ll point you True North from where youÂ’re standing, but itÂ’s got no advice about the swamps and deserts and chasms that youÂ’ll encounter along the way. If in pursuit of your destination, you plunge ahead, heedless of obstacles, and achieve nothing more than to sink in a swamp... WhatÂ’s the use of knowing True North?"

Martinez could do with ruminating on that, I feel.

Tony Draper
192 Posted 08/03/2015 at 19:09:42
"An entire wilderness of theory is of less value than a single thorn of experience". Discuss. (30 pts).
Colin Glassar
193 Posted 08/03/2015 at 19:46:15
Patrick, I know he was a bit of a right winger but shouldnÂ’t Heidegger be in your team?
Thomas Jones
194 Posted 08/03/2015 at 19:36:34
I think we need some sense of perspective and avoid reactionary tendencies. Remember that OFM finished 17th in another case of second season syndrome. I well recall those clamouring to sack Moyes back then; had we done so, we would never have enjoyed the success of the past decade.

We need to get off BobbyÂ’s back and give him at least this and next season to turn things round. For crying out loud, we could end up as Europa League winners with a Champions League birth. So letÂ’s get behind Bobby and the boys and have a little patience.

COYB! IMWT (in Martinez we trust).

John Keating
195 Posted 08/03/2015 at 19:38:09
If the players and management read ToffeeWeb IÂ’d like them to to take a little of Voltaire into their next game.

"Roberto, your tactics are shite and please sod off."
"Players, you are a bunch of lazy overpaid tosses and please sod off."

IÂ’m not sure when he actually said this but am paraphrasing...

Colin Glassar
196 Posted 08/03/2015 at 19:49:10
CS Lewis and Malcolm Muggeridge as holding MF players would be in my team as well.
Rick Tarleton
197 Posted 08/03/2015 at 19:50:13
On the grounds we havenÂ’t got a right or left winger, IÂ’m accepting Engels as well, but are there enough English squad members to meet FFP regulations when we get in to Europe?
Eugene Ruane
198 Posted 08/03/2015 at 19:52:02

Young Ross is idling Sunday away.

HeÂ’s done a couple of hours Fifa 15, knocked one out now he nervously heads to TW.

"WhatÂ’s dis?" he exclaims after the reading the last 20 posts (or so) "Der all Â’avin a laff anÂ’ stuff, I wuz sure theyÂ’d be goinÂ’ spare and narkily repeatinÂ’ themselves like fuck - specially Farage"

He then thinks Â’Maybe I was beinÂ’ a and that"

After a furher moment he thinks "If they can be all cool and laid back and not panickinÂ’ an stuff, so can I. In fact their positive attichood Â’az rubbed off on me good style - IÂ’m goinÂ’ to go out against Newcastle and score a fuckinÂ’ Â’at-trick lid"

He closes his lap top and smiles a confident steely smile.

(Ruane pulls up his collar, lights a Benson, smirks and heads into the rain - job done).

Dave Abrahams
199 Posted 08/03/2015 at 19:32:37
Eugene (172) are you sure it was Brian Glover who used the phrase "Thick as Shite"?

A teacher in school used to say that to me all the time, and that was in the fifties well before Brian Glover.

Rick Tarleton
200 Posted 08/03/2015 at 20:01:28
And still Martinez propounds his own misguided theory about possession being nine tenths of the way you must play. When we play Man Utd, both teams will manage 60% possession and the goalies will be the busiest men on the pitch, fielding the back passes.
Dan San
201 Posted 08/03/2015 at 20:02:14
All we need is a few goals and weÂ’ve won the Europa League. Stuff the Premier League, weÂ’re never going to win it. If they have 6 moves up their sleeve that are unstoppable, then we will win that trophy. ThereÂ’s no point in the showing their hand by doing those moves against Leicester...

IÂ’m happy to end up 15th and in a European final. If we donÂ’t win it, then we can give the Prem a go next season. ItÂ’s all about scouting and no other team can know how weÂ’re going to play if we play different in our league games. I think this will work out OK.

Peter Mills
202 Posted 08/03/2015 at 19:51:01
IÂ’ve just come back from a family gathering where I met a Wigan fan who asked "Did he do OK in his first season, then spout rubbish, then has he got no idea how to stop the team sliding?". I was tempted to ask her if her name was Philipa Walling, she was so on the money.

ItÂ’s strange that when polls are being conducted about whether the manager should be sacked there should be so much reference to Voltaire, an anagram of Vote Liar.

David Hallwood
203 Posted 08/03/2015 at 20:00:32
Too many fancy dans in the team IMO, Patrick (#183), we need a Marcus Aurelius to make teams afreud of us.
Paul Tran
204 Posted 08/03/2015 at 20:10:35
Very good, Darren. HeÂ’s been managing this season like the proverbial (Silviniaco) Conti, been placing our clubÂ’s Value at Risk and will no doubt on his Road to Riches when heÂ’s fired in the summer.

Surely any team of philosophers should include the great Socrates?

Colin Glassar
205 Posted 08/03/2015 at 20:18:30
Husserl could hustle a bit, David.
Rick Tarleton
206 Posted 08/03/2015 at 20:18:24
You donÂ’t need the comments about Marcus Aurelius, just remember Martinez is a Benthamite, not Stan of the 40s team, but Jeremy and believes that the greatest possession leads to the greatest happiness
Keith Harrison
207 Posted 08/03/2015 at 20:25:32
I think you daft fuckers have been drinking the same stuff as Roberto!!
Tony Abrahams
208 Posted 08/03/2015 at 19:34:13
People go a bit far sometimes. We was only lucky not to lose against Leicester because we scored so late in the game. We had enough chances to win, but when your forward misses them and your goaly makes daft mistakes, itÂ’s always gonna be hard to win the game.

Talking with the kids on the way to Stoke, and we all agreed that only Chelsea have really battered us this season, and then we see the line up for one of our cup finals. We all know that we are much better than our league position, but the manager has had a shocker. Good players gone bad, is usually through age or confidence, and I believe you have taken the latter away from them.

Pick your best team, and put the best players in there best positions. Tell them to go and play with intensity and to believe in each other, and results will definitely follow. Carry on the way you are, and your long term focus will never get a chance, because you will never get the chance to implement it. I might be wrong but your biggest fault to me, is that whilst you talk a cracker, going to watch Everton has never been so boring. If you had really studied Everton, you would realise that a team could never have had such longevity, without pragmatism. LetÂ’s see some now please!

Colin Glassar
209 Posted 08/03/2015 at 20:28:09
Marcus Aurelius had his Maximus. Roberticus has nobody.
Tony Abrahams
210 Posted 08/03/2015 at 20:29:20
He wasnÂ’t wrong Dave, that teacher of yours!!
Rick Tarleton
211 Posted 08/03/2015 at 20:24:40
Stoics are what we are on ToffeeWeb, but Henry Winter , "The Daily Telegraph" and Roberto "codswallop" Martinez is a step too far.

IÂ’ll pass on a piece of Marcus Aurelius to Martinez: "If someone is able to show me that what I think or do is not right, I will happily change, for I think the truth, by which no-one was ever truly harmed. It is the person who continues in his self-deception and ignorance who is harmed."

Sounds like our Catalonian philosopher to me.

Keith Harrison
212 Posted 08/03/2015 at 20:35:38
Colin, isnÂ’t it time to "Fwee Woberto" and appoint someone sensible like Biggus Dickus?
Kevin Davies
213 Posted 08/03/2015 at 20:37:33
Tony (210), that is funny!!!
Rob Burns
214 Posted 08/03/2015 at 20:39:10
Patrick (#183), how can there be no place for Robbie Savage? Tut, tut.
Brent Stephens
215 Posted 08/03/2015 at 20:37:12
Rick, re Bentham Martinez – can we have his "body" on permanent display on a chair in the dugout area? Brown shoes allowed.
Dave Abrahams
216 Posted 08/03/2015 at 20:39:45
Tony (210) donÂ’t bring Joseph next week, I wonÂ’t be minding him.
Rick Tarleton
217 Posted 08/03/2015 at 20:41:58
I doubt if Martinez could get into UCL, alive or dead, Brent
Brent Stephens
218 Posted 08/03/2015 at 20:41:39
Philosopher Proudhon suggested that property is theft. Anticipating RobertoÂ’s possession game.
Colin Glassar
219 Posted 08/03/2015 at 20:44:56
I think youÂ’re confused with Ivor Biggun, Keith.
Brent Stephens
220 Posted 08/03/2015 at 20:45:51
Our School of Science dugout would do, Rick. A permanent reminder to other managers of the fate that awaits them if...
Tony Abrahams
221 Posted 08/03/2015 at 20:50:44
Dave heÂ’s gutted. He said he was gonna learn you how to use a mobile phone.
Dave Abrahams
222 Posted 08/03/2015 at 21:05:05
The teacher was right, mobile phones are too complicated for me, and too expensive!!!!
John Gee
223 Posted 08/03/2015 at 21:02:58
Got to play Schrodinger up front. ItÂ’ll keep him away from the pussy and the opposition will never be sure what heÂ’s going to do in the box.
Brent Stephens
224 Posted 08/03/2015 at 21:20:40
Heisenberg as our manager, John? "I know our new winger is fast but I donÂ’t know where he is."
Ernie Baywood
225 Posted 08/03/2015 at 21:25:31
Keith #212. Are you telling us that Woberto is not the Moyesiah? Just a very naughty boy.
Keith Harrison
226 Posted 08/03/2015 at 22:03:21
ThatÂ’s the one Ernie - Colin on a different tack.
Andy Williams
227 Posted 08/03/2015 at 22:06:18
If we are getting philosophical how about Â’Denying realism is megalomaniaÂ’ (Karl Popper - a useful defensive midfielder as we could do with yet another one). Seems to fit the bill for Roberto.
James Martin
228 Posted 08/03/2015 at 22:16:59
I could half believe him if it wasnÂ’t for the wealth of evidence of his own decisions contradicting what he is saying. In the summer for example it was abundantly clear the squad needed a striker, long term replacements for Pienaar and Osman, and a long term replacement for Distin. Out of that list we only got Lukaku. Martinez instead bought a defensive mid we didnÂ’t need and some useless wide players on loan as well as some youth prospects we also havenÂ’t seen. Now Martinez is crying out for creativity and saying that is the type of team he wants to have, well why did he buy McCarthy, Besic, and Barry if he wanted creativity in his midfield? Why did he buy Lennon, a straight line runner with zero creativity? Even now he is looking once again towards Gisbon, Osman and Pienaar to get fit and save the season for him. These are MoyesÂ’ players, two of which are too old to be regular starters. This just shows me Martinez didnÂ’t recruit properly in the summer, and rumours of Tom Cleverly suggest weÂ’ll make the same mistake again. it will be another defensive mid and another useless winger on loan.

The bit that capped it off was Â’Howard has had a strong seasonÂ’. ThatÂ’s a slap in the face to any fan with half a brain and seriously calls into question RMÂ’s judgement. IÂ’ve got no problem with his vision, I just think he has absolutely no idea of how to go about achieving it. Only Martinez could rigidly insist upon a Barcelona philosophy but then buy a load of carthorses to try and enact it. The sight of Barry, Mccarthy, Jagielka, Naismith and Lukaku trying to play one touch football is painful to watch.

You know what if Martinez goes out, sticks to his guns, overhauls the squad and gets in the creative players required to make his philosophy work, IÂ’ll say fair enough you messed up this whole season but at least youÂ’ve got an idea what youÂ’re doing. If he persists with Howard and buys another crab like midfielder IÂ’m painting my Martinez out banner ready for pre season.

Mike Price
229 Posted 09/03/2015 at 00:19:51
Can anybody ever think of a pure passing team that has EVER won the league in England?

You need fight, power and aggression as a bare minimum, to survive this league, you also need some nastiness and leaders. We are soft from top to bottom.

Andy Crooks
230 Posted 09/03/2015 at 00:23:13
I reckon if any player reads ToffeeWeb it will be a fan like Ross Barkley. Or at least someone he knows will tell him about it.If he does, then post # 198 will have him laughing his bollocks off.

If anyone reading this knows Ross tell him he is the best talent since Rooney and will be a great player if he keeps trying to do great stuff.

Harold Matthews
231 Posted 09/03/2015 at 00:05:16
30 seconds after McCarthy, Naismith and Garbutt tried to gang-bang Bardsley the ball was in our net. Everyone lost focus and their right positions, Jags lost Moses and Howard dived like a dying swan. For me that was not "chasing the dream with good football." It was absolute amateur crap.

Dream all you want Mr Martinez but do it somewhere else. We are a disorganised shambles in freefall. Wake up and get real......Better still. Get out....NOW.

Richard Harris
232 Posted 09/03/2015 at 01:13:15
Most of Tim SherwoodÂ’s utterances in the last year have been bigging himself up but this recent quote makes sense.

"People say the fans have to get behind the team. Hold on, why must they cheer? You make them cheer. TheyÂ’re the only loyal people in the game. Make the difference for them, get them on your side".

Jim Stephens
233 Posted 09/03/2015 at 01:16:55
Did someone mention John Rawls? As a feckin sub? Get him on. Believe he plays the original position.*

*political philosophy joke (yes, they do exist)

Patrick Murphy
234 Posted 09/03/2015 at 01:18:58
It all makes perfect sense now - Roberto has been learning English using his childrenÂ’s books such as Phenomenal The Small Book of Big Words which includes the following:-

DISCOMBOBULATED Pronounced ~ dis-com-bob-u-lated. Means ~ thrown into confusion. As in ~ the lion is discombobulated by the skateboarding wildebeest. And ~ my parents are discombobulated when I suddenly start speaking Swedish.* A bit like ~ befuddled, bamboozled. Don’t confuse with ~ anything. If you like this word, try ~ nincompoop. * This won’t make any sense if you are actually Swedish.

There is also a book entitled Phenomenal Shakespeare written by Bruce R Smith and WhereÂ’s Wally? The Phenomenal Postcard Book By Martin Handford

Laurie Hartley
236 Posted 09/03/2015 at 03:21:17
There are certain posters on ToffeeWeb whose posts I pay particular attention to - it's usually because they either have a terrific sense of humour or they seem to me to know a lot more about football than I do.

Harold Matthews @ 231 falls into the second category. Harold posted this before Christmas:

Post 109

I responded in post 119 and then again at 131.

Well Harold your pick to sort things out (Tony Pulis) was appointed by another club (West Brom) and since the beginning of January they have picked up 16 points to our seven - the difference being the 9 points that we are looking for right now.

Harold is there anyone else out there?

Dick Fearon
237 Posted 09/03/2015 at 06:28:44
Laurie H, 286, I'm here Laurie cept' no one ever takes notice of my pearls of wisdom. Had they done so, the snake oil salesman would be long gone.
DJ Staunton
238 Posted 09/03/2015 at 07:12:48
Bertrand Russell was an advocate of logical positivism. Bobby makes sense in his universe. Phil Walling, too.
Harold Matthews
239 Posted 09/03/2015 at 06:33:24
Cheers Laurie. It's all about availability and the competence to win points in a dogfight. Not sure who is out of work right now but any level headed ex-pro would be better than Martinez and his slow tempo disorganised sideways football which concedes goals and fails to score at the other end.

Pleased to hear he is now seeking the advice of Howard Kendall who, unlike Big Dunc, Royle, Unsworth and Sheedy, will not be scared to upset him. Whether or not he will listen is anyone's guess.

DJ Staunton
240 Posted 09/03/2015 at 08:25:27
Oh for Reidy and Big Bob. In yer gob.
Ernie Baywood
241 Posted 09/03/2015 at 08:39:44
Richard Harris #232. I'll take your Sherwood quote and raise you this from the bbc:

He has struck a chord with a club and its support that looked to be sleepwalking towards the Championship under his predecessor Paul Lambert, starved of goals and entertainment, the season was almost being played out in monochrome.
Now Sherwood has added colours to the canvas. The relegation fight is still on and Sherwood himself admitted: "If we were to win the FA Cup and get relegated it will be a failure."

Sherwood isn't exactly my dream appointment but someone with a grip on reality would be a start.

DJ Staunton
242 Posted 09/03/2015 at 08:40:30
One pass, job done.
Brent Stephens
243 Posted 09/03/2015 at 08:37:03
Harold always talks wisdom and knowledge. Any chance of us getting you out of your studio and into the dugout, Harold?
Phil Walling
244 Posted 09/03/2015 at 08:39:52
Harold; Big Dunc,Royle Unsey and Sheedy are all on the payroll so need to look after their jobs. They wont do that by falling out with the boss !

What relevance 'yesterday's hero' HK has to the situation, I have no idea. If the manager has to consult a predecessor of a different time, he should not be in the job. Having said that, I hear it was at his chairman's suggestion.

Another guy whose time is past !

Dave Abrahams
245 Posted 09/03/2015 at 08:44:19
Andy (230), now that Garlands has been shut for three months, it might help Ross's form.
Dave Abrahams
246 Posted 09/03/2015 at 08:50:41
Harold, it might have been a better idea to ask Colin Harvey, a real true blue and have a clearer view than Howard Kendall.
Dave Abrahams
247 Posted 09/03/2015 at 08:55:59
Phil (244) re Big Dunc, Royle etc. that's what Harold was referring to.
DJ Staunton
248 Posted 09/03/2015 at 08:52:36
I met Ross just before his break-through season. On the street, in Wavertree. Decent lad. Got a lot learn. One pass, job done.
Rick Tarleton
249 Posted 09/03/2015 at 09:07:00
I'm with you Andy about Ross Barkley and think his mismanagement is Martinez's biggest crime.
DJ Staunton
250 Posted 09/03/2015 at 09:17:00
Hey, Phil: without a history we’d be nowhere. Your Moyes fixation is dumb. Are you an RS?
Laurie Hartley
251 Posted 09/03/2015 at 08:34:25
Dick at 236 - I know. ;)

Harold - Let's hope he is willing to listen.

DJ Staunton
252 Posted 09/03/2015 at 09:58:55
A meeting between Martinez and a boozed-up Kendall? I am an alky, but this too much.
Phil Sammon
253 Posted 09/03/2015 at 10:12:07
DJ Staunton

Are you old enough to be drinking? Every post is absolute drivel.

Colin Malone
254 Posted 09/03/2015 at 11:28:31
Roberto, you are not in Harrods, your in Primark. Your philosophy is great but until your with a club with a billionaire owner, its time to think like Pulis and Mark Hughes, GET REAL.
DJ Staunton
255 Posted 09/03/2015 at 12:43:46
Too old, Phil. Born in Anfield, 1960. Breck Rd. Like the word ’drivel’. Wouldn’t expect an essay from you, though.

Paul Dark
256 Posted 09/03/2015 at 12:18:21
Martinez is doing what he believes in, I guess - as absurd as many of his comments and decisions are.

He must do it elsewhere, though. He's a relegation-dripping manager, and there is a madness about him.

It's time to get in someone who lives in the real world.

DJ Staunton
257 Posted 09/03/2015 at 13:40:07
Played football with some of the best: Michael Hughes, Micheal Fagan (son of Joe), Tommy Keating. All RS.
Andrew Ellams
258 Posted 09/03/2015 at 14:06:06
Colin Malone, the guy could have Barcelona's forward line but end making them look inept because of his obsession with passing the ball around his own half.

DJ Staunton, you should log into the live forum on matchdays, you'll go down a storm in there.

Mark Seeley
259 Posted 09/03/2015 at 15:18:59
As a passionate Evertonian, I share so many of the complaints that I read and a little of the anxiety, but in truth I don't remember ever seeing a manager who is going through a tough time who came across as making any sense.

Some of our players have not performed; Barkley and since his disaterous penalty miss, Mirallas. Yes we are protecting Stones; I have not read one article where Stones has come under the same scrutiny as, for example, Lukaku (15 goals with potential for completing a 20-goal haul); same age just different price tag.

My impression of what is going on here is that club stalwarts and favourites have got away with murder because as loyal Evertonians we are loath to critisize players we consider the life blood of the team but compare Baines to the player of seasons past; piss-poor. Club skipper 'Jags'; average at best, Distin, finished, Coleman; up and down like a Donegal fiddler's elbow.

My point is this: Shit season, yes; but all El Bob's fault? No chance. We have big issues but one close season of competing financially isn't gonna cut it; we will always be vulnerable to loss of form/confidence with what is still a limited squad in terms of talent and depth. Laugh if you want but this season ain't over yet!!!

Andrew Ellams
260 Posted 09/03/2015 at 15:29:10
I'm sorry Mark, but how can you not put the blame for such a drastic decline in form and league position from one season to the next at the fault of the manager?

I'll grant you that some of the players need a good hard kick up the arse, but isn't that his job? Isn't the one that dropped a young goalkeeper who just starting to look the part for an accident waiting to happen? Isn't he the one that advocates passing around our own half just for the sake whilst completely ignoring the requirement for practising set pieces for and against?

The man looks like a rabbit in the headlights everytime I see him and has no idea how to fix what is going on. Every interview he gives scares me just that little bit more, and every team selection the same. He needs to go and go now. Even when (not if) we survive this season, the damage has been done and there will be no clean slate come August if he is still at the helm. And my biggest fear is that if he is still around, some of our brightest young stars won't be.

Lewis Barclay
262 Posted 09/03/2015 at 16:50:53
This made me laugh (and cry) – from the BBC site:

"Any team that hasn't got 40 points in the final third of the season is in a relegation fight," Martinez told the Sunday Telegraph.

"The big advantage I have is that I've been through that every season.

Fair play to the fella, that is beyond eternal optimism or blind optimism, if he thinks that being in that situation every season is a big advantage!

DJ Staunton
263 Posted 09/03/2015 at 16:51:33
Tim Howard Gareth Barry?? A great football club in danger. Part of my life. Big part.
Steve Hogan
265 Posted 09/03/2015 at 18:08:01
''We are not playing fast, we are passing the ball too much and we need to try to find the right pass to make the most of our strikers' potential."

Quote from the Real Madrid manager, Ancellotti, in today's media reports.

Now where did I see a similar thread...

Peter Gorman
266 Posted 09/03/2015 at 19:07:31
This latest (albeit rehashed) tripe from the manager has been dissected well enough already but I was irked by this claim; "Winning is very, very important but you can chase that dream with good football, not just 'finding a way' to win."

Roberto, we can't even find a way to win.

And the sentence about Howard's 'very strong season'.....just.......shut up man.

Peter Gorman
267 Posted 09/03/2015 at 19:54:30
Oh yeah, the cheeky sod also has the nerve to say he has been too busy to take his missus on a honeymoon. This being the same reason he was too busy to prepare for the season, having a jolly up in Brazil on the ESPN payroll. I would feel sorry for Mrs Martinez if I wasn't too busy feeling sorry for Everton.

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