McCarthy unmoved by criticism of his international form

HeÂ’s an irrelevant nomark who hasnÂ’t got a clue about football. Basically IrelandÂ’s version of Adrian Durham. Loudmouth, opinionated, chats utter shite just to gain attention and remain relevant.

IÂ’m guessing Ross kinda did the speed-read thing through that bit...

Good players, turn into very good players, by trying to do a little bit more. So maybe McCarthy is in the comfort zone, because under Martinez, he is never really expected to take the ball forward. His main job is to sit, and cover the fullbacks, which he does very well, but will this ever take him to the next level?

He moves the ball on as well as any player, and maybe this is what Dunphy is saying. If he played with better players, this would be okay, but until he does, maybe his role will always appear limited.

Dunphy can be an arse and talks like the cantankerous old soul you meet in the pub on a Saturday evening, but on McCarthy heÂ’s right. The lad has the talent but doesnÂ’t own the games the way he should.

Something is holding him back; fear of failure; who knows; but he should be so much better for club and country.

Nice, safe, secure Â’break upÂ’ type of player, but a player who takes a game by the scruff of the neck and dictates the tempo of things, who makes incisive passes that turns the opposition and puts them on the back foot..?

Nope! Still waiting to see that from McCarthy myself. Perhaps another player overhyped by his club manager as to what he is capable of.

Of course the principal role he plays for Everton is enough if, for example, he was partnered with a creative midfielder who can do those things Dunphy says James lacks.

Now if only we had a talented 21 year old (NON-striker) midfielder who had exactly those skill sets and the team was set up to harness their collective skills to our advantage ...

Dunphy sang our praises last year especially Coleman and McCarthy now both are poor. Watch next year both be world class. He sees what he wants.

Martin O’Neill played two defensive midfielders (McCarthy and Whelan), just like Martinez keeps playing McCarthy and Barry. None of these players are creative in any way.

Surely one defensive midfielder is enough in any team.

James McCarthy seems to play his game to the letter of his instructions, presumably from Martinez. Break up the play, cover the full backs, pass to a blue shirt. The fact that this blue shirt could be standing 5 yards square or back is not important. Pass to that Blue shirt. Sometimes this season, we have even seen a number of 5 yard passes to the same blue shirt in quick succession. This ploy works wonders for possession and passing stats on Opta. We have also seen glimpses of him getting forward in recent games, with his run for his first goal and a beautiful flick to set up a Lukaku chance, so the talent is there.

Wes Hoolahan, on the other hand, is a ball player, always looking for the pass and the next pass. If he passes that 5 yards back or square, he will be on the move, into space again always looking for the ball and the killer pass.

I don’t think you can compare the two players. McCarthy is not a ’Flop’ because he can’t play like Hoolahan, nor vice versa. Martin O’Neill won’t play Hoolahan in an away match because he feels, wrongly in my opinion, that he can’t contribute. Trappatoni wouldn’t play him at all.

Agree with Ross above re Dunphy, but McCarthy is in good company as far as Dunphy’s analysis goes. In 2008 Euros on Irish TV he wrote off David Silva in a similar fashion and after a Man UTD - Bayern game a few years ago, wrote off a certain Thomas Muller.

The general opinion on him appears to me to be that he’s good but he could be great.

For 㾹m I would have liked a central midfielder who did more than just tackle tbh. He’s still only 24 but this is now his 7th full season in the top flight so it’s not like he’s a novice.

Nice to see him finally score for us not too long ago – hopefully there’s plenty more to come. We could certainly do with more goals and assists from the likes of McCarthy, Besic, Barry and Gibson.

If the list is a little thin, then you’ve probably answered your question, no?

I also think fans here think the players are "no good" because the talent had been coached out of them. I canÂ’t think of one player who has had a "good season" come to think of it. Is it the fault of over 20 young men who played lights out last year, or the fault of one man who is the most overrated manager weÂ’ve had in out history.

Regarding Macca I tend to agree to a point. He offers next to. I thing going forwards. Not one "key pass" that I can remember (happy to be reminded of one) and only one goal in 2 seasons. That would be fine if we were getting goals from other places but weÂ’re not. Goals are needed from everyone.

When he first came, he looked like a very good box-to-box player but the last 12 months he hardly ever ventures forward, and his passing is usually back or across. Whether the way he plays now is because that’s what RM wants him to do I don’t know. But I would have hoped by now he would have started controlling games for us and he doesn’t. He is still young and can become a very good midfield player but he needs to take that responsibility himself.

Very strange comments and unjustified generalisations IMO.

We do not have a squad of ’shite’ players. We have a squad of very talented players. Personally, I like and rate the overwhelming majority of our squad. Equally, this season, the overwhelming majority of our squad has grossly underperformed.

You accept 3-4 players going through a bad spell at some stage of the season, but the entire squad for 8-9 months...?

I’ll ask again: what is the single common denominator that could be responsible for such a universal failure by the same individuals and team compared to last season?

And true to form, I say again, he is a nomark who likes the sound of his own voice. In fact, I guarantee that if Quinn started and McCarthy didn’t, and Ireland lost, he’d have ranted about Martin O’Neill’s team selections.

He shouts his blinkered views, then when he’s proved wrong he backtracks all the time. He was up Roy Keane’s backside one time, then a few years later called him a bullshitter.

He frequently slated Mick McCarthy when he was Ireland manager, then a few years later that he wanted him back to replace Trapattoni.

He ranted about Ronaldo then was forced to backtrack saying he was wrong and went on about how wonderful he is.

His opinion is irrelevant and he is just a dinosaur. He never played the game at a high level but acts like his views are all important and always right.

I think though that he’s an excellent defensive midfielder and that we are very lucky to have him. We should be looking for him to be a crucial part of our side for the next 10 years. I don’t care what he does for the Republic or what a professional stirrer like Dunphy says. He will get better and there is no reason why he cannot introduce a more incisive element to his game.

A top player.

But I could have submitted the same post on any thread relating to any individual Everton player in the past six months – how many times has one of our players been compared to an LFC player? McCarthy to Henderson, Coutinho to Barkley etc etc – some people forget that the wages and transfer fees paid to those LFC players dwarf the amount spent by Everton. The latest 20-year-old wonder who plies his trade across the park is reportedly contemplating turning down 𧴰k per week; will Barkley or McCarthy or even Lukaku be earning that sort of money at Goodison?

Regardless of the money element I can’t see how comparing Everton players to those from across the park helps us to understand the lack of form of our own team.

I also agree that the common denominator would appear to be the manager but you also have to wonder if there has been some form of belt-tightening operation going on behind the scenes or perhaps the players didn’t get something that they were promised or felt that the squad hadn’t been sufficiently improved to allow them to make a concerted challenge. Whatever the problem is / was, it does need addressing... and pretty damn quickly.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/mccarthy-needs-to-rule-midfield-roost-giles-1.1916699

Only those who know or play with James will know whether Giles is right or whether he’s one of those players so beloved by coaches because he goes out and does exactly what they ask him to do every week, no more, no less – keep possession, pass it square etc. Personally, I think he has a lot more to offer than that.

His opinions (opinions that change with the wind) aren’t worth a wank.

Yes it’s entertaining at first when a pundit turns up pissed and/or rants and raves, but I lived in Dublin for 8 years and believe me, the novelty wears thin - fast.

He’s a nob-head and here’s a sample of some of his nob-headishness..

Link

The bigger question for me is can you really judge the quality of a player by how he performs in internationals? Not for me. 90% of international matches are utterly meaning less. What can you say about the England side after they beat Lithuania? Nothing its a completely pointless exercise. Major competitions still obviously hold weight but nowhere near as much as the Champions League or major club leagues. That is where players earn their bread and butter and it is no surprise that a lot of players can’t really be bothered with anything else.

Dunphy is an embarrassment. Brady, well, I watched Celtic under him and he’s an embarrassment too.

I’m sure he has more than he shows in his locker and I’ve seen him do it for the Blues but not often enough, so is Martinez restricting him from going forward or is Macca happy to carry on the way he plays?

Almost double what it is at the moment... I guess we’ll have to aim for 2017.

McCarthy’s performances have been poor, if you ask me, but he’s not alone, is he? But for 㾹M, I want more. Yes, he can put a shift in but he hasn’t taken a game by the scruff of the neck and one goal a season is hardly a good return. Yes, Dunphy is a bellend but on this one he’s got a valid point.

To some degree, fair enough, but you expect better from "Expert" commentators. McCarthy has had a nightmare of a season mainly because of injury but also because he’s been having to cover the ageing of Barry, and a team in crisis. I know he’s not been great, but in some ways he has (along with Lukaku and Osman) saved us. Without him we may have been relegated.

As for the future, well it’s difficult to tell. He’s a midfield player with lots of energy and no little skill. As such, he has come to be a big influence on Everton. Whether he can translate that into dominating games and also bring in more attacking intent, well, that’s a big ask.

I think it’s unfair to judge him on this season. He’s been in and out of a side that’s been struggling. Whether he can turn into Roy Keane or Diego Maradonna is difficult to tell.

To be honest, I’d be fairly happy if he got his game back to what it was last season. He made life really difficult for the opposition, breaking up their play and setting up our own. Not a bad thing for a midfielder to do.

McCarthy just hides when the team is having a bad game and he always always takes the safe, cowardly option. He never puts himself out and tries something difficult that might not come off.

Running about a lot because your positional sense is atrocious and so you constantly need to sprint to get back in position is not indicative of a good ’defensive midfielder’ either. He’s been at fault for plenty of goals this season and he’s certainly not contributed going forward.

I’d get rid in summer before Spurs start actually watching him rather than believing the completely misplaced hype.

Also, he is not a coward.

I loved him as a player last season; I thought he was the best defensive midfielder in the Premier League but I started questioning: Could he add more strings to his bow? I honestly believe he can because he has the strengths, the fitness and the powerful physique.

I think at Everton this season we have tended to be more critical because the midfield hasn’t produced the goals it did last season with Barkley not scoring anywhere near the same amount, we are putting the microscope on McCarthy, and Besic, Barry (who hasn’t performed as well this season).

Gibson offers more creativity than all three of the above, he’s the only one who can spray the ball forward but with Gibson we, know injury is never far away.

The fans always seem to fall in love with players who run a lot, this probably became the norm after Marcus Bent’s solo striker efforts in 2004-05. It’s why people took to McCarthy last year.

Both Besic and McCarthy run around a lot but for all their energy spent running this season, the midfield has struggled terribly and only since Gibson and Lennon have come in has it started to look more controlled.

The target for McCarthy personally next season should be to add four or five goals to his game at least to start with.

For McCarthy also read Coleman, Baines, Barkley and Lukaku.

He tries to compensate for this (to keep himself in a job, presumably) by mouthing off on some ’controversial viewpoint’ – designed, of course, to keep himself in the news. Even with that, he is long past his sell-by date. He has become a self-parody.

On the subject of McCarthy, he has been in outstanding form for Everton over the past two seasons. His activity with the Republic of Ireland has been a bit more curtailed, through no fault of his own. Genuine Irish football supporters – even those, like myself, who are not afraid to dish out criticism where it is due – would have McCarthy as one of the first names on the teamsheet at any time.

Dunphy, in the meantime, can stay in his room making silly noises and hope that somebody will listen to him.

In school one Monday morning, the RS were all showing off the latest FLR that was in the Redshite’s weekend home game programmme against Wolves. The main focus was the weekly team centre-fold featuring Millwall... Eamonn Dunphy with his todger well on view thanks to his shorts positioning malfunction!

Does anyone have that photo? A bit more worrying is why I can’t take the man seriously!

Dunphy may have been an average player, but he’s perceptive and wrote one of the few great football books, "Only a Game?" You don’t have to be a great player to have a valid opinion... otherwise, most of us on this site would be totally ineligible.

I believe he still isn’t 100% as I haven’t seen him make a tackle since October. Strict orders from the fool on the hill, imo.

Of course, like all right-side midfielders, he will keep his eye on the opposition left back and winger, especially if the latter beats Coleman and cuts in.

Now people like Pirlo, Alonso, YaYa Toure, Carrick and Gibson, who can dominate games are not bogged down by all the defensive instructions in McCarthy’s head. The same goes for Lampard, Gerrard and Co who can get into the box and score goals.

That said, midfielders like Ramirez, Henderson and others in the McCarthy position do manage to get forward but they probably have more trust in the men behind them. Our boy is aware that Barry and Gibbo no longer have the legs to chase back and this will certainly come into his calculations.

More than once on TW, I have suggested that he should wear luminous boots because he does so many good things which go unnoticed. There were times when I had to look for his № 16 to make sure it was him.

Anyway, I do like the lad and Martinez said he’s the one player he would never sell. Always rushed back from injury and rarely subbed, he is a talented team player who loves playing for Everton and will hopefully add more things to his game as he continues to progress.

Finally, thanks Eugene for the Dunphy link. Hilarious stuff indeed. Best laugh I’ve had all week.

A few good passes, certainly, but I’ve never seen him dominate a game yet.

Two things.

1) There are few things more insulting than being called a coward. Ability can be called into question without it leaving too much of a stain but a coward? Well okay, under the accepted TW get-out of "I’m entitled to me opinion, like" – fine. But let me add, I can think of few things more cowardly than someone sitting at a computer, casually accusing a player of cowardice, knowing you’ll never have to encounter him. A shit-house trick imo (see "I’m entitled..." etc).

2) Football is a team game, this idea that individual players can take the game ’by the scruff of the neck’ is 100% simplistic Sky bollocks. "He only plays well if the team plays well"? Tut! Well what a bastard eh!

He should of course be going on mazy runs and scoring hat-tricks while all the rest amble around not giving a fuck. He should be playing great while the rest of the team team play shite, so they can go "Ooo look, he’s playing well, maybe we should raise our game."

Teams take games by the scruff of the neck and any team that would expect one player to do it, deserve a (collective) kick up the hole.

You add "You need your central midfielders to be your leaders, to take control of a game when we’re not playing well and impose their will on it and bring the rest of the team up with them."

Umm... wouldn’t it be more pertinent (if we’re not playing well) to address the fact that we’re not playing well, rather than slagging one player?

Sorry but again, complete bollocks – where is the rule that says your (idle Belgian) winger is excused looking like he doesn’t give a fuck and playing shite, because his midfield didn’t ’impose their will’ on him?

If a player isn’t playing well, he should ask himself why? – he should be capable of raising his own game, not looking to others to improve his performance.

History shows that good/successful sides contain 11 players who all give a fuck. In 1985, Peter Reid was undoubtedly a ’leader’ and a winner etc, but he was in a strong side where everyone worked their plums off. (He could have screamed and cajoled and threatened all day long, but if the will/ability wasn’t there with the rest, he’d have got nowhere.)

We all know the lad has his limitations, but last season he showed that if they are all up for it, he is more than effective in his role.

For the record, I’ve only ever seen two players, single-handedly, take games by the scruff of the neck: Billy Dane (Scorcher) and Roy Race (Tiger).

I seem to remember Alf Tupper playing the odd blinder as well.

I can’t believe O’Niell left it so late to bring on Shane Long and that Keane was even on the pitch.

’Bloomin’ Ada’

I was not impressed when we signed him and even less so when I saw the price tag.

There was an excellent article on him on the Executioner’s Bong, a blog by a tactically astute Evertonian and coach. He highlighted all of McCarthy’s abilities better than I ever could and when I finally saw him play for us I could see exactly what EB meant.

McCarthy might not "do anything" and might rely on other players to play well. But this is because that is his position. If you don’t understand his position then you can’t understand him.

One of the greatest players I have ever seen is Juan Sebastian Veron. Most of the Man Utd fans I know think he was overrated or a terrible flop. That was because they never understood him, but you can forgive them, because their messiah Ferguson never did. Same with Gravesen.

Gravesen didn’t suddenly turn into a world beater for those 6 months when he single-handedly got us into the top 4 in half a season (45 points or so before he left and what 15-20 after he left?). It’s about understanding certain types of player.

Is James McCarthy going to beat 5 men and score a wonder goal? No. Is he going to bang one in from 40 yards? No. Is he going to hit a defense splitting pass, à la Gibson? Not often. This does not make him a bad player, it makes him a different player.

I’m not saying McCarthy is Veron, far from it, he can’t hit a 75-yard pass onto a pin head. I’m not saying he’s Gravesen with his sublime control and finesse. I’m just pointing out it’s easy for good players to look bad because other players do not allow their qualities to shine out.

What does McCarthy do well then? McCarthy is a guy who can drop deep into a back 4 and turn it into a back 5. He’s the one who should grab the ball off the back 4 and move it wide or move it to the number 10. McCarthy is the one who, when we play well, is often getting the ball and moving it fast. McCarthy’s best games came when he played last season with Osman, Pienaar, and Barkley. These 4 were able to do the kind of one-touch passing that destroys teams.

When he plays well, he moves the ball quickly and he does dictate the tempo. And it’s not playing a high tempo that beat teams last season. It’s doing that Barcelona thing of "slow, slow, slow, quick, quick, goal". McCarthy is someone who can do the reverse pass and find someone wide in space. Whereas Barry always seems to play the way he’s facing.

Barry has had a big impact on McCarthy’s form this season. Barry is not giving McCarthy the ball quick enough for McCarthy to have options, and often he is receiving the ball with no option but to play it to the back 4. But still, McCarthy rarely gives it away.

He’s also struggled with injuries this season, he’s seemed a yard off the pace at times and not really had a run of games to play himself back into form, and such is his key function for Martinez’s tactics that he plays on when injured and is rushed back before he’s fit.

Disappointing second season for McCarthy, as for many of our players, but he’s certainly still one of our best players. Still very young. Still highly rated. And I have no doubt he will be back on song before the season’s out, though; I have thought he’s played much better recently.

Hopefully next season we can bring in a top defensive midfielder along side him. Maybe Besic can learn some damn discipline and learn how to hold a position instead of charging around like a headless chicken kicking everyone and then booting the ball out of play. Maybe Barry can shake off his weary legs and rediscover some form and have one last decent season. Or maybe we can move Baines into the middle in a Lahm type situation as Martinez alluded to and pave the way for Garbutt to shine at left back.

No-one is saying he not a good player, many however (including me) are saying that we’d expect more than just tackling and ’making the back four into a five’ for a 㾹M fee.

Whether it’s his or the manager’s fault is something we don’t know, admittedly.

Forward passing is difficult. Everton have 5 midfielders very central and so as a result do the opposition. That’s 10 players packed in tightly and many criss-crossing ahead of him. It is therefore impossible for him to take the balls he’s been getting off Barry or either of the centre halves and then do something with it.

Watch the transitions. See how many touches Everton players are taking when they win the ball. Then the next pass is underhit and the next guy takes a load of touches too.

Last season, Barry was winning the ball and getting it to McCarthy, and then he would take one or two touches at the most and snap the ball hard into another player like Osman who need only one touch to snap it quickly himself.

The big difference this season is the midfield is too ponderous. There are too many touches, the passes are underhit, players are waiting for the ball instead of running on to it, and our play is just too slow. There is nothing wrong with sideways passing as this is devastating when it is done properly. In fact it’s pretty much essential against every team we play who harry us. We need to move that ball fast, one-touch passing and wrong-foot the whole midfield using short sideways passes and then get it wide into space for the fullbacks to charge into.

We have some potentially world class young players who have been criminally stifled by a clueless manager who believes passing the ball from side to side inside your own half is the best way to play football.

Teams play side to side because that is what the players choose to do. They have the ball and they either cannot see a pass or lack confidence. I think it’s both. And yes, not seeing a pass does include them lacking ability.

Martinez does not drill Everton to get the back four to have the ball all the time. He wants the midfield to have it. And he wants those short fast passes. We have shown in flashes we can do it. Less this season than last. This is what the manager drills them to do.

What is happening on the pitch is down to confidence and ability.

Out of all the words to him, I think ’coward’ least sums McCarthy up. I wouldn’t know for sure, but I’d bet money he’s the player the rest of the team appreciate most, so he couldn’t be a coward to me.

Eugene, Peter Reid, is still my favourite Everton player to this day. A winner in every sense, this man made the greatest Everton team I’ve ever seen, play. I only used to go to a few away games, because I played myself, but for two seasons, I never scored him less than 8 out of 10, in any game I watched. Some achievement that, but the only time I’ve ever scored an outfield player ten, Was Wayne Rooney against Bolton, he was unbelievable that day even though he couldn’t score.

Martinez could learn much from the training methods of Alf Tupper. Fish and chips wrapped up in the sports page before a race.

Also, it’s been a while since I’ve seen a goalie put through the net . Wally Brand (ball of fire) did it every week. We’ve got a bunch of overpaid softies these days.

To be honest, I’m a little scared to ask Harold, I mean I’m guessing Limp along Leslie was a football character but..who knows.

"Leslie Crumthorpe was the star shagger of Barnton town and had shot his muck up half the girls in town. But after vasectomy goes wrong, he finds the necessary tumescence required to perform, impossible to achieve.

This week sees the toughest week of his career - it’s fresher’s week at Barnton University and the question on everyone’s lips is can our hero get in amongst all that bladdered student Jack and Danny and successfully perform a horizontal mambo, or will his slack, flaccid yogurt slinger let him down... again?"

Bouncing Bernard Briggs. Motorbike with a sidecar replaced by a bath so that he could collect scrap.

Well okay... fine, you’re of course free to agree, but imo ’overrated’ is an incredibly difficult thing to define.

I mean I would/could neither agree or disagree to be honest, but what I do know is that how he’s rated by others is really nothing to do with the player.

Plus Dunphy (being the noxious little twat he is) has a knack of making everything sound like a personal attack (slumps back in chair, slurs: "No John... no, look he’s overrated, vastly overrated, I’m telling you he is, without a shadow of a doubt, you know he is" etc waffle).

Looking at the media’s reaction (TV/press/radio) over the years, I always thought Gerrard and Bryan Robson were both very overrated (specially in the last five years of their careers) but both were still very, very good players.

Maybe overrated as a criticism is overrated.

My only question is, what’s happened to Alan Whittle, is he injured, is it a long term thing? Will he be back soon?

I haven’t seen him for ages.

Clearly the best teams win trophies and leagues (EFC would have won nothing but for Southall, Ratcliffe, Sheedy, Stevens, Sharp etc) but frequently the catalyst is a midfield general and/or playmakers – despite being too young my understanding is that Reid / Gray were catalyst in 80s (I appreciate Gray left after title win).

Going back to McCarthy – the type of player he is – ie, not a "cultured player" in our team, eg, Baines, Coleman, Barkley, means he tends to be a general to be truly worth a place in our team IF (and a big massive if) granted we are to win trophies.

My view is that he could be and has ability to dictate games BUT doesn’t – I think that’s down to mental toughness rather than ability (or attitude); whether he can learn this, I don’t know but doubt and it’s frustating

Ever met him? (Straightens tie, wipes shoes on back of kecks, slaps hair down.)

When the Grafton was open I WAS him!

Some say he passes sidewards, doesn’t get forward, but that is because he is following the manager’s instructions. He breaks up play, does the simple things along with working his socks off for the team.

If he were to be put up for transfer, the top clubs in Europe would be clambering over each other to have him in their squad.

Enough said.

I don’t have to meet him mano a mano to have my views on his ability as a footballer. To suggest I do is ludicrous. I don’t need to meet David Cameron to judge him on his abilities as a Prime Minister.

James McCarthy may well have the heart of a lion off the pitch and I would never comment on his private life. As a fan contributing to his wage packet, I do feel I can comment on how he plays on the pitch and, in my opinion, he plays with the opposite of bravery. Is that a better, less emotive description? Perhaps that would upset him less; frankly, I don’t care about his feelings one way or the other. He’s a poor footballer who doesn’t protect our defense very well and doesn’t contribute anything to our attack.

As shown by this thread, a lot of people trot out things like "He’s been brilliant in the last two years" and "Without him, we’d probably get relegated this season" but then singularly fail to point out anything he actually does well. Other than putting in effort of course, which seems to me praise that ends when you leave school.

The rest of your post seems remarkably contradictory. First you assert that it’s a team game and no individuals pull a team up with them, whilst following that up with players need to look at themselves for how they’re playing and not the team. Either McCarthy is responsible for his own performances or he’s not?

Then you go with the old classic of building a straw man just to tear it down with "he should of course be going on mazy runs and scoring hattricks". Who implied that? It certainly wasn’t me.

Individuals can most definitely win games on their own, they can inspire their team mates to perform at a higher level and do so frequently. Bale won many a game for Spurs on his own.

As simple a thing as a well-timed tackle can bring the best out of a team (see Phil Neville’s tackle on Ronaldo a few years back) and in more recent times, Gibson coming on against Leicester completely changed the way we were playing. His drive to get on the ball and move it forward rubbed off on everyone and the whole team started playing better and with more positivity.

Barkley had a similar effect for England against Italy with his positive no fear approach and it genuinely does rub off on other players in the team. If the performance of an individual had no effect on the rest of the team, why would you ever pick a captain?

I don’t expect McCarthy to dribble and score hat-tricks; I do expect him to be positive and to continuously try to do things that might lead to goals as, at the end of the day, that’s how you win games. He hides from doing this because it’s not easy to do and this is what makes him cowardly on the pitch. Continuously doing the easy thing out of fear of failure if you try something difficult is cowardly in any walk of life.

To hide behind "He’s a defensive mid, it’s not his role", as some have done on here, is the ultimate cop out. Is there anything more indicative of "Sky bollocks" than the role of the "defensive midfielder". I don’t believe there is any such thing as a defensive mid. There are just midfielders and they all should defend and tackle and they all should attack and contribute towards goals. Having one who only defends is a waste of a player.

And fundamentally, if he is only going to defend, he could at least do that well. He’s poor positionally, he never closes down the opposition midfielders when they shoot outside the box, he’s continually beaten out wide and consistently out jumped at corners. He puts our defenders under pressure with his rubbish pass-backs and causes them to panic and make mistakes. He makes the odd slide tackle, which fans love as it gives them some cathartic release from their frustration, but actually we concede plenty of goals when he’s playing and he’s at fault for a fair few.

I understand what you mean but last season he covered every blade of grass and the other creative players in the team were creating and taking chances; but this season, the creative side has been terrible. Although McCarthy is still contributing the same as he did last season, suddenly he has come under the microscope.

Midfield is a key area in any team and it needs the right blend to make it work. Personally I don’t believe that Barry and McCarthy should play at the same time but Roberto disagrees.

I wouldn’t be surprised if McCarthy got fed up doing all the donkey work while others in the team carelessly gave the ball away time after time and that may be one of the reasons that Finch Farm hasn’t been as harmonious this season as it has been in the past it might also explain why his International team-mate Seamus hasn’t been at his best and has seemed pre-occupied.

If McCarthy doesn’t play in the last 8 games, who else in the team is going to do the fetching and carrying in midfield? I’d suggest there is nobody at the club who can do McCarthy’s job as effectively as he does it. There was a time when all eleven players in the Everton team felt the need to chase everything... but, under Martinez, that has changed and probably explains why we have had such a poor season.

Losing the ball is not a crime as long as the team works hard to win it back... but, if the whole team doesn’t work hard to win the ball back, then you have a recipe for failure which is what we have witnessed this season.

Cathartic release from THEIR frustration?

Oh right... because you’re all calm and analytical like?

Sorry but it doesn’t look that way, I mean those who see his contribution differently to you are informed – "I have to wonder what most of you McCarthy fan boys have been smoking? Have you ever watched him play? He’s a coward in my opinion"

Plus...

"McCarthy just hides when the team is having a bad game and he always always takes the safe, cowardly option."

Yep, none of that sounds like unhinged, frustrated venting and/or ludicrous exaggeration.

Oh and the most desperate paragraph: "I don’t have to meet him mano a mano to have my views on his ability as a footballer. To suggest I do is ludicrous. I don’t need to meet David Cameron to judge him on his abilities as a prime minister."

Well a coincidence you should mention the moon-face toff as he’s one for the weasel words...too!.

You bravely call an Everton player a coward (nb: nothing factual to back this up, just your not-frustrated opinion) yet when you’re pulled up on it, you give it ’yeah but no but yeah but..’ and try to deflect using a truly piss-weak analogy

For the record, you can criticise ’abilities’ all you want, but I repeat, you call someone a coward and it’s not their ability you impugn, it’s their character (and that’s fine with me too IF you’re brave enough to do it face to face).

There’s not one word of my response to your initial post that I feel the need to change.

Some of the other things you pointed out have value; but coward? Eugene is right in calling you on that. Would you walk up to young James, face to face, and state, "YOU COWARD!" You wouldn’t. Not cause your a pussy, but because he’s not a .... coward. So, you wouldn’t call him one; face to face like.

C’mon, acknowledge you were over the top with the ’coward’ thing. Unless you meant it. In which case... you’re a pussy!!

Everyone wins on a discussion board.

ps: I have no problem with your general view of our Mac. You’re not alone in saying some things about him. James is 6 years under the same manager. What we’ve seen is what we’re going to get; a hard-charging, committed Evertonian who does what the gaffer says do.

Seems McCarthy has more to offer than that, but he does what he’s told.

Hey, perhaps Roberto is the coward!

Gibson never has, nor ever will be, involved in games at the level these players have been involved in and in which they have excelled. We are talking of the highest level of performance at club and international level on the very biggest of stages.

In fact, to use phrases such as "taking the game by the scruff of the neck" and changing it, dominating it etc is applicable to very few players and usually only the very best. Gibson? In the name of heaven let us keep this real, this guy has barely been able to play regularly or consistently at Everton, never mind dominate Champions League finals or World Cup tournaments. Perspective has truly gone out of the window!

I don’t think there’s anything unreasonable about what I said and if I were given the opportunity to comment on his style of play directly to him I’d say no different. It’s part of being in the public eye and making your living off members off the public.

I didn’t bravely say it, I just said it, and backed it up with why I think it’s true. There’s nothing unhinged about it and I certainly didn’t try and back out of it.

I think certain fans like certain players as they do offer them a cathartic sense of relief. Poor players like Carsley and McCarthy are loved because fans feel they care as much as they do and therefore they relate to them more. They feel like they play with the passion they themselves would play with.

I have never liked these types of players and I don’t want them to be like me. Quite the opposite in fact, I want to see things that surprise me. I like football for dazzling bits of skill or audacious passes, or even just one touch passing moves that look simple but are actually incredibly difficult to pull off.

I don’t care about players putting in 100% effort, or playing for the badge or any of that crap. To me that’s all boring stuff I could see down the local park on a Sunday. I want flair and skill and McCarthy has none.

And Eugene, I’m not sure I have come across someone who can write so much and say so little. What exactly is your opinion on McCarthy?

We have had some very good technicians like Beardsley and Kanchelskis who were relatively consistent and hard grafters, but the other ’flair’ players have often been frustrating rather than breathtaking and often flattered to deceive.

I agree that football at its best is when a moment of magic happens on the pitch that you may not witness in a game between two pub teams. We had a few of those moments last season and not so many this term. But one of the reasons many of us go to the game is because we might just see one of those rare moments of ability or flair, but any team would be hard-pressed to regularly produce those moments without the hard graft which is a prerequisite for any successful team, more so in the wars of attrition that make up the modern Premier League.

"I think certain fans like certain players as they do offer them a cathartic sense of relief (sigh – again with the cathartic sense of relief). Poor players like Carsley and McCarthy are loved because fans feel they care as much as they do and therefore they relate to them more. They feel like they play with the passion they themselves would play with. I have never liked these types of players and I don’t want them to be like me. Quite the opposite in fact, I want to see things that surprise me. I like football for dazzling bits of skill or audacious passes, or even just one touch passing moves that look simple but are actually incredibly difficult to pull off."

Sorry but this reads like it was written by a 10-year-old who has known only Sky. It says (to me) "I don’t get the idea of team, I don’t understand spade-work, I want a team of ball jugglers>"

It’s funny that you see Carsley as ’poor’, particularly as, even years after he left, many Evertonians still talk of ’The Carsley role’. (Do you think that’s because he was shit at it?)

Oh sure, he didn’t manage many keepie-uppies or overhead flying scissor-kicks and there certainly wasn’t much dazzle or audaciousness on show while he was quietly, efficiently and consistently breaking up attacks and giving the ball to those who could pass it better, but you can’t have everything.

You ask "Eugene, I’m not sure I have come across someone who can write so much and say so little. What exactly is your opinion on McCarthy?"

Maybe if you devoted more time to reading posts and less time insulting Everton players you’d know exactly what I thought of McCarthy – my initial response (#57) to your ’he’s a coward’ post, contains the following: "We all know the lad has his limitations, but last season he showed that if they are all up for it, he is more than effective in his role."

If there’s something unclear about that, please let me know (maybe you were confused by a non-cathartic, simple, insult-free analysis?)

The odd time we do get Gibson and / or Osman on the field (who, much as it pains me to say it, might, only might, be as good as Souness if you put them together) who can put some sort of half decent pass together — said pass hasn’t got to be all that hot to look miles better than the usual dross.

Patrick @ 87 "There was a time when all 11 players in the Everton Team felt the need to chase everything" ... Too ’kin right. I would see that, agree and raise you with... "There is NEVER a time when all 11 players in ANY Everton Team SHOULDN’T chase everything."

That’s ’Everybody’ — not just the would-be workhorses but... and especially these... the Fancy Dans as well. "Good luck with that," some would say. But that’s what good and great players and good and great teams do. The really good verging on great teams have players that can do both of course.

I remember that, when required, both Law and Charlton would get on each post for corners. Alex Young covering both RB and LB in the same game, making tackles, winning the ball by his own corner flag and setting off down the wing.

Who was it... vs Bayern, when we went down 0-1 to the away goal, chasing back into his own net in a despairing attempt to keep it out?... Kevin Sheedy, hardly the epitome of workhorse was he?... or was he??

"James McCarthy conducts his career in public and like any public figure can be criticised as heavily as members of the public see fit."

Hang on... when did James McCarthy become Kim Kardashian? He hardly courts the limelight, does he?

Watch football closely and you see loads of players who are prepared to tackle, watch it closer and tell me how many players are willing to have the ball, to help out their mate, when they are closely marked themselves?

People have different views about bravery on the pitch, and whilst Alex might have a point about McCarthy not being brave enough in possession, looking to go forward, I would still say he’s the bravest player in our team!

I’ve also seen and appreciated the work done by the likes of Dennis Stevens, the unsung water-carrier of the 62-63 team. Note the word ’team’; Brian Labone would often sarcastically tell you that Everton 69-70 were "the only 3-man team to win the League".

The problem is, if they were around now, we wouldn’t get near them. Those players were the very best and these days, their transfer fees would range from 㿞M - 𧴜M and they’d be getting 𧷤k a week (or whatever) from Man City, Chelsea, Barcelona or Real Madrid.

We’re a club ’run’ by bums and (consequently) what we can afford is... well, it’s not Alan Ball, it’s James McCarthy.

Sure Ball was many times the player McCarthy is, but one thing that can be said of both is that neither were/are cowards.

I live in regressing hope, though, that we can put together a team and manager that will, at least, compete and show ambition – a collective greater than the sum of its parts.

However, when the height of your chairman’s ambition is staying in the Premier League, a vision seemingly shared by many post-Sky supporters, we may well be stuffed before we start...

I like Macca. He’s not world beater but he’s no panel beater either.

File under bollocks.

He’s very good at covering ground, tracking runs and breaking up play but he does not offer a huge amount creatively and that’s why he should probably be played with someone who can thread balls through and score the odd goal. Gibson could be that player if he can stay fit.

It seems that your recent comments all need to mention your hatred of Sky and the fans who’ve grown up in that era, but it seems that you don’t actually recognise what Sky promote.

As Alex pointed out, the idea of a defensive midfielder is the type of reimagining of football that Sky excel in. They can’t accept that there might be some pretty average midfielders playing in the Premier League, so they redefine the role to justify why a player doesn’t look particularly good. Rather than the Sky generation expecting players to score wonderful solo goals or bang in hat-tricks every week, they’ve actually been brought up being told that turgid 0-0 draws between bog standard teams are ’incredible’, ’dramatic’ and ’remarkable’. They’ve been told that players like John Terry and Jamie Carragher are phenomenal because they, well, do their job I suppose.

With regard to McCarthy, I think he’s a decent player, but I agree with Dunphy (who I agree is a complete tool) when he says that he doesn’t change the tempo of the game enough. When I talk about a player ’dominating’ a game, I don’t mean he scored 5 or kept nutmegging people, I mean he dictated how the game was played. Obviously the very best players do this regularly, but you don’t have to be a world beater to do it. Arteta could do it when he played centrally, Carrick does it (a perfect example of this was on Tuesday when he replaced Jones and changed the flow of the game). When we played Chelsea away Matic completely dominated the middle of the pitch. He didn’t do anything remotely spectacular but he kept breaking down our attacks and setting up theirs, making it very difficult for us to get a foothold in the game. This is what I’d like to see more of from McCarthy, as I do think it’s in there somewhere.

Once again, can we please try to limit the personally insulting stuff (that includes calling the manager and players derogatory names in lieu of reasoned critique) in the hope of maintaining some civility on these threads.

Thanks!

Apologies if I was a bit slow on the uptake Eugene.

There is something of an anti-Sky undercurrent on here... not sure if it’s age-related — I know I have a visceral reaction to most of their incredibly inane reporting/interview style.

On the other hand, it could be argued that the worldwide access to Premier League coverage many of us now rely on might not be there without them!

Sometimes if I choose to clear recent history, then all my logging on details have to be re-submitted but personally I haven’t had any trouble in recent months. It also depends on whether you are using your own PC or somebody else’s machine.

As for the definition of a defensive midfielder, I think you have just provided it and given examples. It is a category which I have always thought was fairly clear and which owed nothing to Sky.

What I saw from Matic was him starting the attacks himself. Carrying the ball forward into our territory or playing forward, probing passes. To me, that it is an important difference.

With regard to my comment on defensive midfielders, I note that Eugene (who clearly isn’t of the Sky generation) mentioned Evertonians using the term ’the Carsley role’. If I discuss that type of position with non-Evertonians they will invariably refer to ’the Makelele role’. I wonder, if it’s been such an obvious position for so long, why the roles are defined by players from the Sky era?

Apologies again to Eugene, this time for the age reference. I have no idea how old you are, I’m just going off your comments on Sky!

Courage on a footy pitch doesn’t have to be of the run-through-a-brick-wall variety. The bravest thing anyone can do on a pitch is to take responsibility.

Leon Osman isn’t everyone’s cup of tea. He’d have to be deaf, dumb and blind not to know that every time he is caught in possession or is brushed aside, his detractors will rain down their abuse from the stands... but still he risks it, he is always searching for the better option. He’s incredibly brave. So, to a lesser extent, is Pienaar.

I wouldn’t dare call McCarthy a coward; he looks like a hard man to me. He’d certainly run through a brick wall for the team... but does he have the sort of courage to take responsibility? The courage to pick the ball up when we desperately need a goal and drive straight at the heart of opposition? Will he say "Fuck this" and break ranks whenever Martinez’s painfully careful approach shows no sign of breaking down stubborn resistance?

Macca certainly has the courage to resist enemy attacks, but does he have the courage to take the game to them, come out of his trench and force them to retreat? I’ve seen nothing to suggest he has...

Obviously I am of the Sky generation myself, so I’m not suggesting that there have never been defensive midfielders before because I wouldn’t know. I do think the idea that every player who doesn’t contribute a lot going forward is automatically a ’defensive midfielder’ is a new concept though.

If you look at someone like Sandro for example, he can’t defend to save his life but, because he doesn’t score a lot, he’s categorised as defensive. In the past, he would have just been a midfielder.

Maybe James, is limited? I don’t think he is myself. But until we change our formation and personnel in midfield, it’s quite possible we will never find out.

In those days, it didn’t matter about fitness and diet; they were real players. I think, though my memory might be playing tricks, that Tubby’s brother had a pie stand that Tubby helped out with at half-time. In those days, they knew a bit more about generating income.

While Barkley has bags of potential to be top class, McCarthy is a run-of-the-mill grafter and very average to say the least. He is the epitomy of the Martinez boring drab "possession at all costs" football philosophy. Sideways, backwards, "I don’t want the ball" type of player. Not once this season has he won midfield battles, taken the game to opponents, or given the team impetus. But many Evertonians love him and a certain Naismith because of their industry and effort.

Until the club changes its mindset, we will only be a mid-table team at best while endearing ourselves to the likes of these two plodders.

I think he was at Chelsea too, and was known sympathetically as ’Fatty Foulkes’.

On the subject of putting goalies through nets, there was an African called Jimi who did it with headers in the Victor, usually from crosses from a Scottish winger called, I think, wee Willie. He learnt this, apparently, by heading coconuts back in his homeland and could also break corner flags and stand roofs as well as knocking out the odd linesman.

There was another player, whose name escapes me, who played for Everpool. It was in Score or Scorcher. It always pleased me that he didn’t play for Liverton. I always tried to get my hair in the same style as his.

Lukaku could do with a set, are they still banned?

If you recall, though, the linesman had a thin pencil mustache and was foreign.