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Martinez rejects “inflexible” label

by | 06/04/2015  Comments (186)  jump

Roberto Martinez has responded to accusations that he is stubborn in his approach and formations by positing his belief that he is one of the most tactically flexible managers working today.

Everton's mid-season struggles, during which they lost four successive matches over the festive period and battled through a three-month period in which they won just two Premier League games had many observers questioning the Catalan's dogmatic adherence to a formation that often sacrificed balanced width for the deployment of two "number 10s" behind Romelu Lukaku.

The crushing exit from the Europa League aside, results have improved in recent weeks as the Blues have moved away from the relegation zone, with Martinez belatedly opting for two strikers in the wins over Newcastle and QPR before injury kept Lukaku out against Southampton on Saturday.

The manager insists, however, that he is always changing things and he expounded in that vein to the Liverpool Echo.

The people who say that I am tactically not flexible are people who do not follow my work, the 41 year-old said in his defence. I have been innovative at every football club I have been at with my tactics, my shape and my approach.

I am not someone who needs to defend myself but if you follow my work then I am probably one of the most flexible managers tactically that you could work with.

We don't play the same way twice, but it is not for me to go openly and publicly and tell everyone what we have done.  


Reader Comments (186)

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David Harrison
1 Posted 06/04/2015 at 17:08:22
Methinks he doth protest too much
Dave Ganley
2 Posted 06/04/2015 at 17:10:44
Unbelievable....if he believes half of much of the drivel as he spouts then we really are in trouble.....stop destroying our club and get out
Patrick Murphy
3 Posted 06/04/2015 at 17:12:35
"We don't play the same way twice" - priceless, almost every game has seen the same tactics employed and I must have missed the differences due to their subtleness.
Steven Telford
4 Posted 06/04/2015 at 17:06:50
“The people who say that I am tactically not flexible are people who do not follow my work”

So presumably watching every game week week out does not count as following his work.

“I am not someone who needs to defend myself......."
The results BEG to differ. In addition, having already manged a team to relegation once, don't you think, just maybe....

Add delusional to inflexible.

Duncan McDine
5 Posted 06/04/2015 at 17:16:44
What Bobby said was admittidly cringeworthy, but probably true... apart from the bit about not playing the same way twice.

The only reason I've eased off the guy for a while is that I can clearly see that tactics have changed. He's even listened to the players and allowed them to have a tactical input.... for now thats ok by me.

Kevin Elliott
7 Posted 06/04/2015 at 17:30:03
This guy gets more unbelievable with each statement he makes.
I honestly think that there is something medically wrong with him...
Seriously.
Chris Feeley
9 Posted 06/04/2015 at 17:38:13
Now this is certainly not the standard 'Positive Pedro' that I've become accustomed too. If anything he comes across as very defensive. Maybe he is flexible after all....?
Neil Pickering
11 Posted 06/04/2015 at 17:46:04
If he's talking about consistency when he says he doesn't play the same way twice then he's right; you never know what you are getting from week to week!

Seriously though, last year this guy was happy to boast he has one way of playing that the lads had bought into, but now its gone tips up he's saying he plays all different ways? Smacks of someone who once had a plan, but now it's been sussed then he doesn't actually have another one.

Please Bill put this poor guy out of his misery for his own as much as the club's.

Colin Glassar
12 Posted 06/04/2015 at 17:49:11
I wish the club would put a gagging order on him. Every time he opens his mouth he puts his proverbial in it and leaves himself wide open to his growing army of critics. I like Martinez and do think he will be a success at Everton but god, I wish he'd shut it for a while.
Denis Richardson
13 Posted 06/04/2015 at 17:58:02
Read the title and had to check the date.....nope, April 1st has already gone by.

Sounds of a dead man walking..

Tony McNulty
14 Posted 06/04/2015 at 17:56:43
I am not that worried what he spouts. People want to defend themselves in all walks of life and sometimes they have to be left to their opinions.

Provided we get results and play in a manner which is pleasing on the eye, he can recite the Moscow telephone directory if he wishes.

But this season has been one in which our performances have once again anchored the team in mid table mediocrity. And given the noises from various agents, it is looking like there will be quite a few changes in personnel over the close season.

Stephen Daniels
15 Posted 06/04/2015 at 18:02:27
Will you just pack your bags and go? Stop treating Everton fans as if we donÂ’t know our football. You have been found out by everyone. IÂ’m sick of this deluded manÂ’s comments. Just go, PLEASE!
Mark Frere
16 Posted 06/04/2015 at 17:58:10
He really is deluded! All we've had is slow ponderous, sideways passing football for the majority of the Season! Naismith or Barkley played out on the wing God knows how many times, when it's been clear to everyone but Martinez that it doesn't work! Even on the odd occasion when we've gone back to basics and played more direct (like in the last 3 games) all we look like is a poor version of a Moyes team.The players aren't as fit as they used to be, don't have the fighting spirit they used to have and players such as Coleman and Baines look a shadow of their former selves.

All this is down to our very flexible manager! I can't wait for next season!

Richard Lyons
17 Posted 06/04/2015 at 18:09:14
The team played out of their skins last season (and how we loved both them and Martinez). This season I think they're playing at their proper level - which is mediocre at best. In fact, they're starting to grind out results in the style of Moyes, so maybe they've returned to being "Moyes-ocre" again. Perhaps this what he means by tactical flexibility.

Whatever, it's not attractive football, but I think it's the best we can expect from the squad we've got and Martinez's unwillingness to risk playing younger players when the likes of Barry are fit (the exception being Stones - but with Distin and Alcaraz the other options, he hardly has a choice).

Jagielka may be one of the best English centre halves, Baines may be the best left back, Coleman even the best right back in the country, but I doubt any of them would be automatic choices in any of the current top 4 Premiership teams. Mirallas shows flashes of brilliance but lacks consistency, as does Barkley. The rest of the regulars are hardly title-winning quality.

Above all what I think all of them lack is composure/confidence/skill to hold the ball while looking for incisive passes or opportunities to run past or at defenders. The result is turgid sideways passing (blimey, Neville would have slotted in perfectly) until someone gives the ball away and the opposition score. And I can still not fathom out why the opposition always seem to have so much more space going forward than we are ever allowed.

So, in essence, I think Martinez got the best he could out of the team in his first year. I can't see him taking them any further now - but there's no way he's going to resign, and no way Kenwright will ever sack him - so that's what we're stuck with. Next season: more Martinez-ocrity...

Paul Tran
18 Posted 06/04/2015 at 17:53:01
Oh dear.....I don't think Martinez is 'inflexible' at all. This season has seen him constantly chop and change. He's been very creative in managing to keep playing a differently unbalanced and ineffective team.

I liked him better last season when he actually was inflexible. The team knew what it was doing and picked itself. It scored goals, defended well and won games. There was nothing wrong with that 'system' that a better keeper, centre half, creative midfielder and striker wouldn't have put right. It was a solid platform to build on. I don't buy the 'sussed out' argument. He bottled it and changed what worked into a mess.

All this bollocks about 'inflexibility' and 'no plan B' are a convenient smokescreen for Martinez. I'd like the journalists to ask him the following:

Why did you replace a system that worked with a disorganised, confusing free-for-all that clearly doesn't?

What exactly were you doing regarding the pre-season?

Did you want to buy the '7 players' or were your hands tied by the directors?

Why do you keep playing players out of position and who are out of form?

Why do you keep buying players, praise them, then not play them?

Why do you keep talking about great football and then have us watch the shite served up this season?

Why have we rarely had more than 2 or 3 shots on goal per game this season?

Why do the players always look knackered, or are out injured?

Why do you bring back players from injury too early?

What exactly are you going to do to change things round next season?

These are the real questions. I'll happily go down to Finch Farm and ask them myself if Prentice is scared of losing his job.

Patrick Murphy
20 Posted 06/04/2015 at 18:06:32
Colin - Similar to yourself I do have a soft spot for Roberto but Premier League football at a big city club is not the same as Premier League football at some backwater club - I just don't feel that Roberto has the necessary tools to deal with the day to day problems that a club like Everton can throw up. Roberto has not risen to the occasion and his self esteem is such that he can't see why he is still under fire, the link to another article "How do you solve a problem like Roberto" has some interesting points to make.

Kenwright doesn't realise how lucky he was to get David Moyes at the time he did and love him or loathe him, he did a good job for the club and for BK.

Martinez is being asked to do similar but he doesn't have the street-fighting nature of Moyes or the experience of Smith and it does look as if he is floundering on the rocks and rather than withdraw and keep the press at bay he is seeking to justify the unjustifiable. Kenwright should have gone for somebody of more PL experience from a bigger football club than Wigan Athletic.

I said earlier in the season that this season and next could well shape our fortunes for the next decade, in my opinion we need to have a new man in charge come August else we will be in serious trouble for many future seasons.

Andy Crooks
21 Posted 06/04/2015 at 18:28:42
Martinez is absolutely right. We don't play the same way twice. It varies from boring and poor, to absurd shite and moves on to some of the worst football in the history of our club.

Yes, Martinez,you certainly do vary it.

Sam Hoare
22 Posted 06/04/2015 at 18:36:24
Really not helping himself is he?!

Ross Edwards
23 Posted 06/04/2015 at 18:28:23
The ramblings of a deluded man. When I read that I laughed. You have to really. You can't possibly take anything this man says seriously.

He sticks with the same style of play for 7 months of the season even tthough it was obvious in the last few games of last season that people were on to it. Even between Christmas and February when we were absolute dogshit and so easy to play against, he still persevered with the same style week in week out that had failed.

That is not a flexible manager, that's the sign of a man who has absolutely no idea what he's doing. We've been absolutely horrendous all season, he's been clueless for the majority, then we get 3 fortunate wins and suddenly we're meant to believe that everything is now fine and that Martinez is some kind of tactical genius all of a sudden? I'm sorry but that is absolute bollocks.

At Wigan his teams were totally inept for 28 games then all of a sudden they stay up and people think 'Look at him, what a flexible manager he is, changing his team's fortunes around well done', but no, if he was such a fucking genius he'd have done something months earlier wouldn't he instead of sticking with the same old failing tactics every week.

He says this a few days after the Southampton win guarantees our safety. Do you know what that reeks of to me? That's his attitude of 'I've fixed this now, we're safe, everything's fine now, look at what a great manager I am, I've proved you wrong'.

The man is deluded and embarrasses himself every time he opens his mouth.

Steve Hogan
24 Posted 06/04/2015 at 18:14:37
There comes a time in a manager's tenure at a football club, when I believe they 'go pass the point of no return'. The problem is, I'm undecided if Martinez has already reached that point, both with the players and the fans.

Given the majority of poster's on ToffeeWeb, are clearly of the view that he has already reached this stage of his short, but eventful Everton career, that is not the overall view amongst my match going Everton mates.

At least 50% want to give him another season to 'get it right'.

Sadly, he just doesn't do himself any favours with his media and press statements. Quite frankly, I switch off the radio or TV when I hear him pre or post match now, because I cringe when I hear his latest nonsense.

I could go on forever about the utter rubbish he has spouted about individual players in the past.

Eg Atsu, ''he is going to have a terrific second half to the season, and will really feature in this team''

Lukaku, '' he will be one of the best centre forwards in Europe''

Everytime he spouts about an individual player, it's like he gives them the dreaded kiss of death.

I actually enjoyed his positivity in the early stages of his Everton career, having endured the utterings of the 'dour one' for eleven years.

But as one mate said to me a little while ago, at least with Moyes, you felt you were watching the same match?

Back to my initial point though, does this manager have enough ability to really turn things around on a permanent basis next season?

I'm not sure he does, he needs to make some pretty impressive close season signings to improve the team in key areas, most notably in midfield where the lack of creativity is alarming, central defence where an injury to Stones or Jagielka would find us wanting again, and an attacker who can provide us with an additional 10-15 goals should Lukaku (if he's still with us) get injured.

We also lack genuine pace throughout the team, not helped if we return to the tika taka football we have witnessed for the majority of the season.

There are so many questions to be asked about this manager, from tactics, team selection, style of play, and a real lack of a plan B during games,that I'm not sure he really does have the managerial acumen, to put us on the right path.

I'm sure we will have a pretty good idea 10 games into the new season.

COYB

Joe Foster
25 Posted 06/04/2015 at 18:43:39
Why oh why do you open your mouth mr Deluded?
Paul Smith
26 Posted 06/04/2015 at 18:48:31
He has a 'beautiful football framework' which he sticks to rigidly. Within that, he tweeks its constituent parts (hence the flexibility line). Not sure I think he's flexible at all.
Darryl Ritchie
27 Posted 06/04/2015 at 19:04:08
We really need to ask RM just what he means when he says he's "flexible tactically". I've a feeling that it's not the same definition everyone else has.
Bill Gall
28 Posted 06/04/2015 at 18:46:00
Finally I understand why B.K. hired Martinez, as after dour Davey he found a bigger bull shitter than himself and that takes some doing.
From the start of December when the real slide down the league started both a number of supporters and myself were asking the manager to change his system, to stiffen up the defense, play players in their correct positions that finally culminated in the shambles at Southampton where he used no subs. The answer we got was that the manager would not change his philosophy that he believed this was the correct and only way he would play the game and outwardly seemed to stubborn to correct the slide down into the relegation zone. And now after three poor games that managed to move us out of the relegation threat he expects us to believe it was his tactical awareness.
This man must have his speeches written by some spin doctor that lives in a fantasy land, and if he thinks people are going to believe in what he says he is deluded..
Andy Walker
29 Posted 06/04/2015 at 19:20:22
Deary me. We can add lack of self awareness to the list now.
Patrick Murphy
30 Posted 06/04/2015 at 19:26:39
Never mind boys and girls Malky Mackay is available he has just lost his job as Wigan Athletic manager.....oh hang on a minute!
Mike Allison
31 Posted 06/04/2015 at 19:27:10
I'm not too fussed about these comments, I think some people are just looking for any excuse to slaughter Martinez at the moment.

I do think he needs to come out and admit some mistakes though, he must know he's made them, and I'd feel so much better if he said something like: "I can see now our pre-season wasn't good enough. We'll do it much better next season and we'll make sure the players are really fit. Also, the Southampton game showed that you can play badly but if you defend well and make use of set pieces you'll pick up wins anyway, so we're going to make sure we work on that too."

That would be all it would take for me to back him, as I don't think he's nearly as bad as some people are making out at the moment, he's just not nearly as good as he seemed last season either (or as he seems to think he is).

Patrick Murphy
32 Posted 06/04/2015 at 19:31:44
Mike - That's the point though isn't it - posters wouldn't be able to jump on his comments if they a) were an honest assessment of what has happened this season. b) he had spoken about a plan he has in place to repair the problems and issues that have beset the team this season.

Kenwright took a gamble and kept Roberto in his position and fortunately we look all but safe in the top flight for this season, it will be another huge gamble to keep him in his job for the start of next season, I understand that some if not the majority of fans are willing to go along with Kenwright in doing so - I admire their faith but I can't see what Roberto has bought to the club that has improved a) the style of play and football on offer b) results compared to the last few years.

If Roberto does succeed at Goodison he will be a very lucky man to have had an owner who stuck by him, if he doesn't succeed then the owner will have a lot more than egg on his face if it all goes horribly wrong.

Kunal Desai
33 Posted 06/04/2015 at 19:45:21
You are not tactically flexible; if you were, then we would have a lot more points than we already have. End of.

Maybe pegleg can entice you back to your old job!

Rick Tarleton
34 Posted 06/04/2015 at 19:50:51
He's not deluded, he's simply wrong.
Peter Laing
35 Posted 06/04/2015 at 19:53:11
"I am not someone who needs to defend himself" — All I can say to that is un-fucking-believable. Trying and failing to outscore Kiev in their own backyard demonstrated the man's lack of nous and tactical acumen. It will personally take me a long time to recover from that... It was Moyes's semi-final moment against the Redshite in a nutshell.
Anthony Flack
36 Posted 06/04/2015 at 20:04:18
I thought I would have a go at writing like Martinez, so I fired up a random speech generator – the site's banner is "fire your speech writers and win..."

Here goes...

"My opponent is working with porn stars, Chilean miners and Mexicans. I refuse to support an America where terrorists and Monsanto cronies can corrupt our iPhones. When I'm elected, I'll make sure board members and flight attendants can't destroy our right to use up the world's resources."

I reckon it makes about as much sense as he does.

Anthony Flack
37 Posted 06/04/2015 at 20:10:47
Mike #31 – I kind of agree with what you say, in particular the "slaughter Martinez" bit (metaphorically of course)...
John Keating
38 Posted 06/04/2015 at 20:12:32
I've said it a number of times before, this man is an embarrassment to our Club.
Andrew Laird
39 Posted 06/04/2015 at 20:05:23
Time for Roberto to take a break from all media work indefinitely. His inane fantasy-land bullshit is like a virus, just imagine being in the dressing room for his teamtalks.

When Roberto starts referring to himself in the third person the megalomania will be complete. SHUT YER GOB, MAN!

Ron Sear
40 Posted 06/04/2015 at 20:14:07
Much as I've hated the current season and have done my fair share of slagging off RM, I can't help remembering the first three years of Alex Ferguson's career at Man Utd.

For three years every fan was baying for his blood and they really did flirt with the relegation zone - and then what happened? I can't help feeling there is just (only just) a possibility that we might be jumping the gun screaming for his resignation. The question has to be if he has learnt anything this season and can he act sensibly on it? Double or quit time has arrived - are we up for the bet?

Chris Feeley
41 Posted 06/04/2015 at 20:13:00
I think it is easy for Martinez to come out with statements like the ones in this article, just as it was for him to declare that he would get Everton into the Champions League. However, facts are there for interpretating in a much more black and white way than opinions.

Fact is that we are approaching the halfway point of the initial 4-year contract he signed when given the job, influenced by the promises he made about Champions League qualification. I assume that everyone will need to be flexible on 'when' and 'if' he meets that promise.

Dave Abrahams
42 Posted 06/04/2015 at 20:48:55
Ron (40), Alex Ferguson was an experienced Scottish manager who had won quite a few honours in Scotland with two or three clubs, he was new to English football, was a rough blunt, no nonsense manager, whose players knew even then who was in charge.

Contrast that with Martinez he is too nice with the players, doesn't really seem to be able to control them, they seem to control him. Certain senior players anyway. I think Ferguson was the wrong manager to compare him with, although I agree with you it took Fergie three years to find his mark with Manchester United.

Trevor Peers
43 Posted 06/04/2015 at 20:52:31
I do have some sympathy for Roberto on this one. Backed into a corner by our genial chairman BK. Of course at some stage he will feel aggrieved and lash out at those who question his ability and who can blame him?

With no peep of a response from our chairman, he's left high and dry. Perhaps deservedly so but what a cowardly way to treat a manager. BK did exactly the same to Moyes who was better equipped mentally to deal with it.

Jim Hardin
44 Posted 06/04/2015 at 20:59:45
Richard, I am sorry but I do not understand your reasoning about Martinez. Moyes had the squad playing to 6th in his last season and Martinez traded on Moyes's framework and fitness last season with essentially the same squad doing better points-wise but couldn't that be down to the strength of the teams Everton played given the points totals of the top 6 teams last season?

Martinez added a striker the last two seasons and two mids so any mediocrity would be his additions and his style of play. Please stop giving him credit for doing his "best with the squad" this year when the same players with a couple of changes did much better the last two seasons.

Sid Logan
45 Posted 06/04/2015 at 20:39:42
He may believe he's tactically flexible during a game but I'm not sure that really matters. It's his fundamental footballing philosophy that's flawed.

To talk about the value of scoring from open play when we're lucky if we get 3 shots on goal in most games. Then also, as part of the same philosophy, to denigrate the value of set pieces and in particular corners in the light of the limited scoring opportunities we create is laughable.

And finally to constantly extol the virtues of possession as a means of controlling a game when passing only ever takes place at a tempo which is so slow that we never open defences with the speed of our attacks.

Supporters ask whether he has leaned anything from this pretty disasterous season that might herald a fresh approach next season. The answer has to be that to demonstrate he has he would need to completely re-think his philosophy and shift to a much faster and more direct way of playing more suited to the players we have. Only returning to his sacred beliefs once we have signed about four of the most expensive players in Europe!

This debate is circular because we all know that he's not going to change that fundamentally and any short term direct play will be followed by a reversion to type once we had managed to achieve a few succesful results because we've already seen that happen.

David Greenwood
46 Posted 06/04/2015 at 21:19:19
Nailed it, Sid.

Dave @42, he also had a European trophy.

Peter Fearon
47 Posted 06/04/2015 at 20:23:31
Some of you deserve to have David Moyes back. We have a promising manager who needs to be given time, our support and a little bit of patience.

Yes, this has been a frustrating and disappointing season but the idea that Martinez is deluded, megalomaniacal, the worst manager in the league, and so on, is so much nonsense. I am looking forward to all of you eating these despicable posts next season. Some of you won't be happy until we are punting the ball upfield from the penalty area with a Hail Mary and a Sign of the Cross hoping it falls to a forward.

By the way, we won on Saturday. His tactics worked. Howard who many of you think is finished made two great saves. Barry, who has been subjected to a hate campaign, played well.

There were a number of other positives for those who aren't always looking for a reason to bitch and moan. Sometimes it's like being in the Boys Pen.

Sid Logan
48 Posted 06/04/2015 at 21:26:04
Peter. Thanks for that. So – despite a massively crap season and witnessing some abysmal football and being beaten by some of the worse teams in the league – we shouldn't really moan?

My guess is there won't be many of us eating our posts come the end of next season but, if you turn out to be right, I'm sure you'll remind us all of your words.

I'll be delighted if you are in a position to do so but I can't see it myself!

Peter Fearon
49 Posted 06/04/2015 at 21:38:53
Sid Logan you and everyone else have every right to moan when we play poorly. That is different from the low, vulgar, personal attacks on the manager I read week after week, win or lose. If he isn't getting it done this time next season, it may be time for a change, but meanwhile, we should enjoy an important win (or three) when it comes along. We are the only fans in the league who manage three wins in a row and complain about it.
Sid Logan
50 Posted 06/04/2015 at 21:44:32
Peter, I often hear that about how much we moan but there are teams having plenty of success and their fans do their fair share of moaning.

To be honest, the only fans who never moan are those who have absolutely no expectations... and, more often than not, they get exactly what they expect!

Ross Edwards
51 Posted 06/04/2015 at 21:36:27
Peter, I admire your support of Martinez but please tell me how he will suddenly make us rise again like a phoenix from the abysmal, turgid shite that we've seen all season?

I think the man has proved that he is clueless this season and he didn't get his tactics right. It was the same old backwards crap with a few long balls thrown in just to show us that we 'can mix it up'.

The way he has ruined Baines and Coleman. They don't even look like mere shadows of last season. And if lucky wins against QPR and Southampton, where we were largely outplayed in both, is the sign of him getting his tactics right, then clearly the last 7 months proves that he got his tactics horribly wrong.

Kiev summed up his ineptitude. All we needed was a draw. We got the equaliser, all he needed to do was settle and get to half time, not go gung ho and completely capitulate.

I admire your optimism Peter, I really do... but he has made too many mistakes this season: Barkley continuously on the wings; deciding that the way to get back into the game at St Mary's was by making no subs at all; dropping Robles after three clean sheets in a row for Howard who has only kept two in God knows how many since going straight back in; continually selecting Barry who has been a liability for the majority of the season – I could go on.

It's convinced me that this is not merely second-season syndrome, or a blip, I am finding it difficult watching that rubbish every week to be optimistic about next season or to make a case for Martinez deserving a 3rd season. He'll get one but, after this shambles of a season, he definitely doesn't deserve another chance.

It took him 7 months to slightly tweak his tactics. Great. Howard has been inept all season with maybe three good displays, and you can count on one hand how many good games Barry has had, yet they still get selected.

You remain supportive and optimistic, Peter. And I hope you're right but I am far from convinced that this is some kind of temporary hiccup.

Andy Meighan
52 Posted 06/04/2015 at 21:38:15
Peter (#47),

We've got a promising manager, so we've won 3 games on the spin: one against a Newcastle side who played with no recognised centre forward; QPR rattled the woodwork a few times and we rode our luck big time in that; and we were second-best at home to Southampton. Well, if you're happy with the way the season's panned out, you must be easily pleased.

There's no way my posts will come back to haunt me because I know what this manager is. He's a fraudster who has this season dished up some of the worst football I've seen in my life – and that's some going considering I've been going regularly since 1970 and have seen some absolute shite.

He's a lucky, lucky man because these three wins have bought him some time. I'm dreading the summer because god only knows what calibre of player we're going to be getting. Heavily linked with likes of Tom Cleverley, I feel like crying... and yet you say he's a promising manager? I and many more on here know he's not getting sacked and that's a worry. I'll leave you with some of his signings: Alcaraz, Besic, Kone, McGeady, etc... yes, some promise there, isn't there?

Trevor Peers
53 Posted 06/04/2015 at 21:57:47
Ross, I agree wholeheartedly with your post but no manager deserves to go a whole season without some kind of backing from his chairman. It is indeed a cowardly way for BK to behave but not surprising.
Phil Sammon
54 Posted 06/04/2015 at 21:53:49
Peter,

I think the 'personal attacks' are borne out of the contempt Martinez holds for any fans who question him. Indeed, some of us aren't even 'proper Evertonians' in his eyes.

Like many have said before me, I would have so much more patience with him if he acknowledged the team's failings and put plans in place to address them. What everyone is sick and tired of is his fantasy-land drivel that bears no relation to what we actually see on the pitch.

I think he sometimes forgets that we all watch the games too. If you solely followed Everton on his pre/post-match interviews then you'd be forgiven for thinking we're having a great season. Even defeats are dressed up as moral victories.

God, I don't know whether to detest him or feel sorry for him. Just please get out of our club!

Mike Allison
55 Posted 06/04/2015 at 21:56:05
Some of you need to go and have a nice meditate or something. It seems that while we were losing this season something flipped and now no matter what happens you're determined to interpret it in whatever way makes Martinez look bad.

Most people like to think that they have rational beliefs, based on evidence. They don't, they have beliefs, then they fit the evidence to match them. The actual evidence is almost always inconclusive in football, which allows people to be absolutely convinced of something one way or another. Many posters now seem convinced that Martinez is some kind of drivelling imbecile, completely incapable of doing or even saying anything right, and any evidence (such as a 1-0 win over a quality and in-form team, making it three consecutive league wins) will be interpreted to fit this pre-conceived view.

It makes much more sense to think that our manager has many strengths and also some important weaknesses. Last season, the strengths outweighed the weaknesses and everything looked hunky dory. This season, the weaknesses have outweighed the strengths and things look pretty bleak. That means that, given a few things going right (such as acknowledging and improving on weaknesses) then we could quite easily reach a tipping point where things would start to look quite good again.

Chris Feeley
56 Posted 06/04/2015 at 21:55:22
Peter,

Were you at the game on Sunday? It was boring, devoid of any quality, and generally negative. How is that any worse than under Moyes?

Martinez needs to earn back support, as the vast majority of good will he earned in his first season has been used up by the debacle of this season. He has been managing long enough now to know that his supposed 'promise' needs to be realised, otherwise it is simply smoke and mirrors to cover up naivety and incompetence.

Patrick Murphy
57 Posted 06/04/2015 at 21:49:22
Peter,

The most disrespectful thing I have read on this thread is that Roberto is a bullshitter but most posts have been fairly even-handed and presented logical reasons for their opinions about Roberto. If you go up to post number 18 (Paul Tran) he presents some valid questions which many may consider to be fair and reasonable.

I'm not saying that some other posts on other threads have been reasonable or fair and general name-calling isn't going to win any arguments with anybody, so we both agree on that point.

If it was purely about results, ie, three wins on the bounce, then yes, we should be very happy bunnies; but the malaise and general demeanour of the team has been pretty bad for nearly a year and there must be a reason(s) for that.

It may not be all down to the manager but he is the guy that chooses the players, instructs them on what system to play and, as at every club, the buck stops with him for all matters pertaining to what we see on the pitch each week.

Goodison may have been sold-out many times this season, but the fans haven't enjoyed many good 'moments' this season and they pay good money to watch decent football; positive results cannot be demanded but are always welcome. I don't believe that any other club would have allowed Roberto to continue in his job this season; even Villa got rid of Lambert once they realised that relegation was a possibility and they hadn't finished in the top five the previous season. Moyes was got rid of by Man Utd because they failed to meet their particular targets – not because they were languishing in the lower half of the league table for most of the campaign.

I can't see the future so I don't know what will happen, but the likely scenario is that Roberto will be a manager at another club by January 2016; if he isn't, then it would mean that he has managed to pull things around and that would be welcomed by most Blues... but I don't personally believe he will, because the club is far too big for him and his staff.

Ross Edwards
58 Posted 06/04/2015 at 22:08:54
I agree with that, Peter, but maybe Kenwright's silence is an indication that he's not happy with him. I might be wrong but that's my theory.
Ross Edwards
59 Posted 06/04/2015 at 22:14:00
And can I just also add that I'd cut Martinez some slack if he wasn't so delusional and prone to embarrassing himself every time he speaks.

The fact that he said that the win against QPR where we were outplayed for most of it, against the worst side in the division who we should be beating comfortably, sums up the mentality of the man. He's turning us into Wigan.

Craig Mills
60 Posted 06/04/2015 at 22:24:54
Sorry, Roberto ,you are wrong on this one, you claim we do not play the same way twice, whereas most fans will say we have been shit for nearly every game this season!,
Ross Edwards
61 Posted 06/04/2015 at 22:28:16
#58

I meant Trevor not Peter, haha. Sorry Trevor.

Joe Foster
62 Posted 06/04/2015 at 22:31:27
He is not even flexible on his ’inflexible’ label!
Trevor Peers
63 Posted 06/04/2015 at 22:09:42
Patrick makes an excellent point about Roberto's staff who are obviously inadequate for a club of our size. Why was that allowed to happen?

Maybe BK is unhappy with him and will pipe up once were mathematically safe... somehow, I doubt it.

Paul Dark
64 Posted 06/04/2015 at 22:23:01
Is there any doubt in either camp about the following qualities RM has?

Doctrinaire
Self-satisfied
Marked by favouritism
Incoherent and inconsistent in his tactics
Says one thing, does another
Producing poor football
Wordsmith, in the worst possible sense of the word

And this is a very summary list. Do Evertonians want a manager with even some of the qualities described above? Really?

I have nothing against him personally (I don't know him, of course) but the arguments against him are coherent, empirical and cogent. The ones in favour him staying are generally based on vague personal preferences: "Let's give him another go"; "I like him" etc.

Martinez should be dismissed today. He is not an Everton manager.

Jay Harris
65 Posted 06/04/2015 at 22:09:13
I think he is using BK's scriptwriter.

Peter, I know quite a few share your opinion but let's get real, mate. No decent Premier League manager would have organized a pre-season the likes of which even Tranmere would laugh at.... oh but there again they did and beat us into the bargain.

The players have never looked so unfit and lethargic and got so many hamstring injuries and our manager is supposed to be a qualified physio.

He has cleared out all the Moyes backroom staff and replaced them with Wigan's with the obvious result .... we play like Wigan.

He has achieved a record in EFC history of the lowest points after 30 games...Our tactically flexible manager has turned one of the most solid defences in the league into a shambles.

He has brought some very poor quality players to GP.

And the worst failing for me he has shown no humility or attempted to learn from his mistakes. I could excuse it if it was just a bad run but this has been for the whole season.

This man is totally out of his depth and it is showing. He needs to be put out of his misery for his own good IMO.

Eddie Dunn
66 Posted 06/04/2015 at 22:27:05
Peter, I don't want you to get loads of stick instead of Roberto, just because you have defended him. You have a right to your opinion, and it really would be great if you turn out to be correct. I will be delighted to eat humble pie if he proves to be the man who gets us Champions League footy.

However, Roberto, do me a favour and shut up. He is a deluded control freak, who believes his own hype. He speaks out now after three wins on the trot, because he thinks he has evidence in his favour.

No, sorry, we could easily have lost at QPR, and at home to Saints. We were unceremoniously destroyed in Kiev, as a result of his brainless planning, and I lost faith in him months ago. He treats us like idiots, and he has lived in Britain long enough to be able to be judged on his verbal vomit, after each result. He barely pauses for breath between his baffling contradictory utterances.He is taking the piss.

Also, this isn't some guy volunteering at the local soup kitchen, giving up his time for the benefit of others. He is a very well paid member of a very exclusive bunch people who's job involves explaining what they are (supposed to be) doing to anyone who is interested. I see him get annoyed whenever he is questioned in any depth. It has all the hallmarks of a man so convinced of his own all seeing wisdom, that he doesn't even want to listen to criticism.

"Just look at my work?" I have been Roberto. It is shoddy, you have fucked-up, you have lost the players due to your blinkered attitude and they only pulled their fingers out because they all saw relegation looming and thought that they had better buck up their ideas.

Mirallas will leave; Lukaku will look for a way out too. Our young gems will be courted by the bigger clubs, and we will struggle to attract anyone decent.

In football circles (in the UK at least) the players all talk to each other, at international get-togethers, PFA dos, and social meet-ups. They all know the score on which bosses to avoid. Perhaps this is why Roberto has failed to land many decent signings?

I have said before, I know 100% that the players don't like him, and don't trust him. They know him a lot better than us. They didn't play for him; they have just been grinding out the last few results for themselves... Simple as...

James Stewart
67 Posted 06/04/2015 at 23:12:33
This guy is constantly having to explain his tactics publicly which is getting a bit embarrassing. Keep burying your head in the sand Roberto. Most managers are stubborn but this guy is something else. Everyman and his dog knows how Everton will set up and play.

I can't stand Mourinho but the way he alters formations mid-game is something else. I wish one day we will have someone as pragmatic.

Paul Smith
68 Posted 06/04/2015 at 23:01:46
Eddie Dunn – scary post, mate.
Danny Broderick
69 Posted 06/04/2015 at 23:14:26
Do we not owe him another season to get it right though? The obvious comparison is with Moyes's first two seasons. Great first season – crap second season. After that, we kicked on.

We even hear of players having second season syndrome, eg, Barkley, because people have wised up to you and know who you are. Surely the real barometer for Martinez is the 3rd season?

Patrick Murphy
70 Posted 06/04/2015 at 23:50:23
Danny - There was a time when an Everton manager had to make us Champions within 3 years of his appointment. Times are different now, of course, but it won't take the whole of 2015-16 to see that RM is not the right man for Everton FC. I'm afraid he has shown his true abilities this season.

John Gee
71 Posted 07/04/2015 at 00:06:02
Martinez is very flexible. He bends over every weekend and lets the opposition's manager do what he wants.

He's nailed on to be our manager next season. But he should be judged on how well the pre-season is planned and how we play in the first 3/4 games.

Although, personally, I think if he couldn't see what was wrong by November, he shouldn't have been allowed to play the grouch who stole Xmas in Bullshit Bill's pantomime.

Oh...and... hey, Roberto... If you're in a hole, stop digging.

Harold Matthews
72 Posted 06/04/2015 at 22:34:46
I've always firmly believed that Martinez was not BK's chioce.

I well remember being glued to Sky Sports News on the morning our new manager was to be presented to the world. Time and again we were told to wait a bit longer. Even the normally calm presenters were showing signs of frustration.

We then heard that an important Everton executive had either been sacked or walked out.

Eventually the big moment arrived. Bill was in a stinking mood. Looked ready to flatten someone. This was not helped when it was discovered that the seating arrangements were incorrect and they had to shuffle themselves about till Martinez was placed like a little boy to Bill's left. What a shambles. BK now looked ready to tip the table over but managed to hold himself together with great theatrical professionalism. Still fuming inside, he delivered his speech.... or more correctly; He thrust Martinez on to a spit and roasted him.

The long awaited presentation suddenly turned into a grand tribute to Bill's best mate, our former manager. He went on and on and on. Moyes was made to sound like a cross between Mourinho and St John the Baptist... In other words, if Martinez harboured ideas that he could do better, he would do well to forget them.

This unsavoury spit-roasting was ended by a vicious jab from a stiletto with "Champions League" engraved on the gold encrusted handle. The cruel smirk on the fat face of the perpetrator was there for all to see.

BK was forced to hire our new boss. I'd put money on it...

Patrick Murphy
73 Posted 07/04/2015 at 00:47:48
Harold - Have you been on the Sherry old mate? I didn't see the arrival of our new manager on Sky, but I honestly don't think anybody could force Bill to do anything he didn't want to, unless of course he had lost a bet with somebody and had to pay up.

On the other hand if you are proved correct, it would be an even more important story than the actual hiring of Roberto and would beg the question about who is really in charge at Goodison Park, Bill or A N Other.

John Daley
74 Posted 07/04/2015 at 00:57:32
Forced by whom, Harold?

I don't recall his demeanour at Roberto's unveiling but I do know that Bill was going all misty eyed at the mention of Martinez's name, and leaving a silvery snail trail on the inside of his slacks, when interviewed by Sky the day we played Arsenal last season. It was the most embarrassing public display of unrequited man love I've ever seen. It was like the Smithers/Burns relationship reversed.

Stephen Daniels
75 Posted 07/04/2015 at 01:09:07
I’ve said it before and I will say it again – just go!

This manager hasn’t got a clue... I’ve had enough of the drivel this man says – he must think we’re thick.

Scott Bosworth
76 Posted 07/04/2015 at 01:54:33
It seems to me that it is entirely possible for Roberto to be telling the truth, and for the ToffeeWebbers to also be correct, because Roberto and the commenters here are using different definitions of "flexible".

I know for a fact that match analysis of Roberto's time at Wigan and Swansea shows an incredibly dynamic tactician – despite the appearance of similar lineups/formations at the start of matches. My guess is that, if you were to update those same analyses to incorporate his time at Everton, you'd see the same thing.

My bet is that Roberto is possibly/probably being a bit defensive because fans and pundits (including those on this site) are focusing solely on immediately visible measures of tactics such as "starting formation". While this is fine and all, it ignores an entire sea of tactics that involve where and how players play within that formation and defensive schemes.

That's not to say that I am a Martinez apologist or even that I don't wish he'd just shut up. But I do think that hearing Martinez claim to make changes and then pointing at "4-3-2-1" each match isn't as strong of a rebuttal as the comments here are making it out to be.

Kieran Kinsella
77 Posted 07/04/2015 at 02:32:14
Right... and that is exactly the situation we had with Bilic and Williamson. Gareth Farrelly too in some respects and you could even mention John O'Kane in the same breath. The question is: how do you answer something like that?

Maybe he was right, we don't know what goes on behind closed doors, though, so we just have "insiders" telling us all the stuff about the mural and the press conference. I think you're onto something.

Victor Jones
78 Posted 07/04/2015 at 01:33:09
Martinez only changed things around when injuries forced him to do so. He quickly installed his favourites as soon as they were fit, regardless of how the stand-ins had been performing. Martinez is not a flexible manager. In fact I am convinced that he has not got a clue as to what his best starting eleven is. And that, for a Premier League manager, is criminal. If he keeps being "flexible", then someday, sometime, somehow, he might just stumble upon his best team. Although I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for that.

Any manager that (in the Dynamo Kiev game) thought that it was a good idea to play Alcaraz in defence, and overlook Stones, Distin, and even Browning, was most certainty not being flexible. He was just being plain fooking Stupid, with a capital S. And just how flexible is it to cram the midfield with DMFs? And people wonder why we don't create too many chances.

And why drop a GK that had just kept three clean sheets. Also why drop young Garbutt, who was playing well. If Martinez was truly flexible, would he not try to accommodate both Garbutt and Baines in the same team. Instead of persisting with (as mentioned numerous times), playing three number 10s. Three players crammed into an unworkable system.

As stated numerous times, Martinez would be better off not saying anything. Or at least be honest. I think that most supporters would appreciate a little honesty. Ipswich Town were beat today, and their manager was interviewed. He said that his team deserved to be beat, and that they were simply not good enough. And that they would be working hard to put things fight.

That is honesty, that is straightforward, that's all I need to also hear from our resident genius. Not the balderdash that he comes out with after every game. FFS he even attributed the win over Southampton to the experience the team had gained in Europe. Jeez-U-S-Christ. That win was more out of the Joe Royle dogs of war handbook, than any European manual. (His European comments were made on another thread.)

These comments today are unbelievable. Does Martinez take supporters to be fools. Cause you could write a book on why this season has been crap, and not once would you mention how flexible Martinez has been. In fact, when he does tinker, Everton usually get beat. Remember the home defeat to Palace last season. There are other matches (and defeats) as well.

So Wigan now have no manager. Do you think that they might consider taking Martinez back? After all, he did win them an FA cup. He's airbrushed the relegation battles and eventual relegation into outer space. Never to be talked about. Some Everton supporters have also overlooked that fact. And are willing to give him more time. More time to do what exactly?

Football is a result-based sport... a result-based business. I don't trust Martinez to deliver. I just do not trust him to do anything at Everton. And he is most certainly not a flexible manager. We will be back playing tippy-tappy nonsense at the first opportunity. Let him go back to Wigan. The tippy tappy stuff should work in League One next season. At least until teams catch on to it.

Rant over. Last comment, great comments from Paul Tran. Would love to hear Martinez answer your questions. Although I doubt that any of us would understand his answers. Me thinks that Martinez will make a great politician should he finish with football. They talk bollocks as well. COYBs.

Mark Andersson
79 Posted 07/04/2015 at 01:37:57
Loved reading every post today. Peter and others who defend Martinez, I take my hat off to you swimming against the tide. If I ever have a day in court being the accused, I hope you are on the jury. Simply because you don't look at the evidence, and like Martinez I too have a charming manner, a great smile and can talk my way out of trouble.

The evidence is there for all the jury to see, however you believe what you want, you see what you want, I believe that Martinez is not a good manager for Everton. I will gladly eat any amount of humble pie if your right.

Victor Jones
80 Posted 07/04/2015 at 02:43:19
Just one more comment. I would have loved to have been present when Martinez made these comments about being a flexible manager. I would have asked him one simple question. Please explain , just how flexible you were when your Everton team got beat 2-0 at Southampton over the Christmas of shame? Did the subs miss the bus?

Then I might hit him a punch. Check if he really is flexible. Only joking, no violence will be shown, I'm an Evertonian.

Barry Earley
81 Posted 07/04/2015 at 03:11:10
I've kept out of the Martinez debate until now.

All I can add to the previous comments is that I used to love watching "Happy Days". The Fonze was my childhood hero. Then he "Jumped The Shark".

Has Martinez just Jumped The Shark?

Harold Matthews
82 Posted 07/04/2015 at 04:12:15
Patrick / JD. Much as I love and respect your views on all things Everton, I'm still sticking to the way I witnessed the events on that particular day. BK is the figurehead. He is not the main man. Whatever happened during that long meeting before the unveiling is something we'll never know but it caused BK to enter our screens in a far from happy mood.

Perhaps, after a few good results, his opinion of Martinez began to alter. I just don't know. One never knows the truth when Show Business Bill opens his mouth and I still believe he never wanted Martinez in the first place.

Jay Harris
83 Posted 07/04/2015 at 05:18:43
Harold
I hold a totally opposing view to you although I have no facts to back it up it is only my opinion.

I think Bill had a few sherries with his pal Dave and was sold on the idea of Martinez on the day they knocked us out of the cup when it was fairly common knowledge Moyes was going.

Bill is too lazy to seek out and interview top managers when he is presented with a fait accompli such as Martinez.

I think the deal was done then when the thought was that Wigan would do their normal escape act and Whelan would get his compensation and a new manager on the cheap..

Peter Barry
84 Posted 07/04/2015 at 05:33:51
"Phenomenally Delusional" is the only way I describe Roberto's pronouncements.
Arnez Desmond
85 Posted 07/04/2015 at 06:11:12
Hey Guys!.. My thought is to give RM another season. I am with Peter on this...This season is crap due to a variety of reasons.

The football RM played last season worked because we had "quick" and fit players, eg, Gerard Deulofeu and Osman was fit... not to mention that most clubs didn't adapt to our style of play too well.

This season, due to poor pre-season prep, complacency within the coaching or playing ranks at failure to get required players in... we were caught out. Let's face it, RM like DM, Barkley and Lukaku are having second season syndrome. Give them the benefit of another year.

My hope is that we have the resources to buy 1 goalkeeper (Nyland), 1 central defender (Alderweireld / Dragovic), 1-2 midfielders (Cleverly / Capoue / Chantome), 1-2 wingers (Konoplyanka / Ayew / Lennon / Deulofeu) and 1 striker (Austin / Rhodes) and promote from the U-21s: Garbutt, Browning, Ledson... but we need to dump Alcaraz, Distin, Hibbert (sorry), Kone, Pienaar, McGeady to free up the wages... and bring down the average age of the team while upping the squad pace.

I expect RM would be busy in the summer working on his targets... as I suppose he has realized that we can play with 1 holding midfielder as well. Just my thoughts!

Eric Myles
86 Posted 07/04/2015 at 06:39:26
I posted in another thread that I hoped he would recognise his mistakes this season and learn from them but it appears my hope is all in vain and we will have more of the same next season.
Brian Porter
87 Posted 07/04/2015 at 05:49:27
Eddie Dunn (#66), I agree with you entirely. I'm now in my sixties and have been a fan of the club for 56 years. In addition, I once played at a reasonable amateur standard, and later qualified as a coach in the English Hockey League after switching sports, but believe me, there isn't a lot of difference in the tactics and positions play required between the two games.

I mention the above solely to point out that, contrary to Roberto's way of thinking, we are not all mindless idiots, prepared to sit and watch the drivel his selection churns out every week, or to soak up his inane attempts at self-justification. Whatever sport you are involved in, fitness has to be a #1 priority before looking at the rest of the equation, and it is clear to anyone watching us this season that our players have been lacking in that department when compared with the opposition in every game.

Selection then has to be based on the players in-form who must be played in the position where they can do the best job for the team (ie, in their correct positions), and then the team's tactics have to be set up to play to their strengths, as he should have built a team to play in a way to provide service to our record signing.

A good coach would then be flexible (are you reading this, Roberto?), and if necessary makes drastic changes to personnel or tactics in a games if things are not working according to plan, and be prepared to be flexibly ruthless if some new upstart (Robles), comes along and out-performs one of your favourite old stalwarts. In other words, the good of the many outweighs the needs of the few (thanks, Mr Spock, so true).

If Eddie's predictions come true and we lose the core of our squad due to the manager's ineptitude, it may be years before we are able to rebuild a squad capable of challenging for European places again. Such is the pessimistic possibility after the damage done by this season's tinkering and poor judgement shown by Roberto, who is so out of his depth at a club like Everton. Please, BK, let him go before he does so much damage that we end up spending years in the footballing wilderness, bereft of hope and ambition, lurching from one relegation scrap to another until we eventually lose our Premier League status and the real decline sets in.

I'd love to be wrong, but at my stage in life, having seen all the good and the bad over half a century of watching Everton, I see little hope of improvement under the current manager. I keep thinking back to being 13, at Wembley with my Dad, and enjoying the greatest day of my life as we came from two goals down to beat Sheffield Wednesday 3-2 in the Cup Final. I'd like to think today's young lads might get the chance to feel that pride and excitement one day soon, but see little chance of that happening with the current manager in charge.

OK, rant over, back to growing old ungracefully!

Derek Thomas
88 Posted 07/04/2015 at 07:03:19
He is, in his own way, just as Inflexible as OFM... and just as less likely to change. Both of them have a "My way or the highway" attitude... without the highway option.

Hopefully the words of Paul Anka will soon ring out: "And now, the end is near..."

Derek Thomas
89 Posted 07/04/2015 at 07:11:05
Harold, Patrick, John and others; some internet savvy person must be able to find a link to that Sky presser, then we can all see if Harold's take on the body language is correct.

I've just seen a bit of it, but they only show the aftermath and not the to-ing and fro-ing before that Harold mentions.

My take on the body language I did see is: Bill's lips are moving so he must be lying.

Joe Clitherow
90 Posted 07/04/2015 at 07:31:55
To all those citing "second season syndrome", you need to avoid such lazy conclusions and look at the wider body of evidence.

Martinez had "first season blip" benefitting from someone else's hard work and foundation. This season is entirely consistent with his wider career track record. In particular, check out comments from Wigan fanzines and you will see, historically, exactly the same complaints including disrespect for the crap he talks to the media.

It is wrong to dismiss Wigan as solely a rugby town with only rugby fans. Like all clubs, they have knowledgeable committed football fans – they just have less than a traditional club like Everton.

It is a disgrace that this incompetent chancer is allowed to continue to manage our club and to treat our fanbase with such disrespect.

Colin Glassar
91 Posted 07/04/2015 at 08:10:05
Harold, all I can remember about that press conference was Roberto sweating profusely and Boys Pen Bill smiling like some psychotic Cheshire cat. Great conspiracy theory though...
Steve Chesters
92 Posted 07/04/2015 at 08:37:48
The fact that he's looking forward to McGeady coming back is enough for me!!!!
Trevor Peers
93 Posted 07/04/2015 at 08:53:39
It's Roberto's dealings in the transfer market that's really worrying; most of his buys are simply not good enough. God help us when the backbone of Moyes's team has gone.

Is it Cleverly next in? Disgraceful if true – he's third-rate dross.

Tony Abrahams
94 Posted 07/04/2015 at 08:17:18
Joe, you might be right, but during his first season blip, I saw some great football. The best being at Goodison against Man Utd, when we had way too much nouse for our illustrious opponents.

Paul Tran great post: questions that need to be asked, even if we are all fed up listening to the manager's bollocks. Eddie (#66), also made the same observations, and if it's true the players don't like him, then serious questions need answering.

Harold, I can't remember it all but he deffo got spit-roasted off Kenwright that day. People even now go on about Martinez saying he would get us Champions League football but, as Derek has just said, it was Bill's lips that were moving that day.

I'm slightly torn over this manager to be honest. I remember last season, the bad as well as the good. It was a pleasure going to Goodison, and I looked forward to every game. I remember having just finished my dinner at Swansea, being made up I was going to watch my team play.

This season the man hasn't got one thing right. I question his ego for the mural, I question his tactics, and the way he has used his players from the very first game. I question him for being the reason why no momentum has ever been built up, and why when Everton score three goals, they always stop playing?

If last season was enjoyable then this season has been depressing, and not just because of results. He played Liverpool at home, the way he should have played Kiev away.

Goodison is now known as the library, even though attendances have never been higher. Inflexible or not, we just cannot go on, watching such a boring style of football. It's just not Everton's way of playing, and never could be.

Dave Lynch
95 Posted 07/04/2015 at 09:29:16
Another season of this clown will see us relegated IMO.

His track record as a manager is up there with the likes of Megson, McCarthy and Warnock.

One FA Cup win does not make for a great manager, look at the likes of Sillett and McMenemy who both won an FA Cup but where nothing but average managers to say the least.

I for one am dreading next season...

Sid Logan
96 Posted 07/04/2015 at 09:33:26
Search youtube for 'Roberto Martinez arrival at EFC press conference'. The full version is there.
Max Wilson
97 Posted 07/04/2015 at 09:53:18
Paul Tran's witty and thorough dissection of Martinez is excellent although we all know the 'inflexible' label came about over the perceived negativity of the slow passing game, and particularly of back passing.

The silence of the chairman, who is our greatest fan let's not forget (money where his mouth is, although lots say not enough) is noticeable. Of course he will have been disappointed like the rest of us.

All season, a common complaint I've heard from Toffees is why Martinez continued to select less talented players? In the PL, one or two wrong choices loses you games. You are playing with ten or nine players. So we are back to the 'inflexible' charge I guess.

Sid Logan
98 Posted 07/04/2015 at 09:46:12
What is illuminating is BK's reference, in his search for a new manager, to meeting with some of the finest individuals in football but that the finest was now sitting next to him, namely Roberto.

Says much about BK priorities. Nice working environment, easy to get on with Manager, endless opportunities to talk football.

Maybe next time he should seek out a manager with proven record of success first and likeable personality second. In other words put the club's needs before what's required to enable him to indulge his hobby!

Kevin Tully
99 Posted 07/04/2015 at 10:32:48
I wouldn't take it for granted Martinez will be here for a third season, as most seem to believe. BK will have had some serious doubts this season, and the thought of Everton being relegated will have spooked him and the rest of the carpetbaggers.

If rumours are to be believed that senior players are looking for the exit and Martinez had lost the dressing room, then I could certainly see a change at the end of the season. If the players are not backing the manager, BK may well pull the trigger.

There are a lot of ex-players in and around the club and you can be sure that Martinez will have been well and truly found out if he is the fraud some believe him to be. BK will no doubt take these opinions on board and act accordingly. If the Likes of Sharp, Royle and Ferguson are whispering in his ear telling him Martinez is useless, then he's a dead man walking.

Maybe that's why we haven't heard a peep from BK all season backing the manager???

Sid Logan
100 Posted 07/04/2015 at 11:05:15
Kevin,

You may well be right. I would just like to know whether there is any truth in the rumours that he's lost the senior players and maybe the whole dressing room.

After all, they are really only rumours. It's difficult to believe with all the TW followers someone hasn't got an inside story to tell. I've not yet seen hard evidence.

Rob Newling
101 Posted 07/04/2015 at 09:31:48
Not excusing RM for his other crimes, in a largely underwhelming season, but why is pre-season fitness solely down to him?

MIA some suggest, but surely someone at the Club knows the drill? Were the coaching staff too gutless / clueless to act, or our pros too lazy to get off their collective backsides??

Blame where it's due, but basic fitness? Hardly the School of Rocket Science!

Eddie Dunn
102 Posted 07/04/2015 at 11:18:15
Sid, I can't name names for obvious reasons, but I have it first hand that generally the players don't trust him.

That doesn't mean that they all hate him, I'm sure he is liked by his favourites, but the source I have is a name you all know, and he has no axe to grind, as he left the club before this regime came in, but he still sees many of the players.

We only see snippets of the manager, and it took a season before we started to question his sincerity. Imagine what he's like as a boss!

Laurie Hartley
103 Posted 07/04/2015 at 11:18:18
I started watching the press conference but only got to the bit where a journo asked The new manager why he picked Everton.

At that point I realised that I was starting to feel depressed – I figured that I had enough of that particular feeling this season so I stopped watching it.

I then asked myself if I have felt happy about anything concerning our club this season and came up with some good stuff. Here is my list:

Everton in the community
The fans - particularly the away support.
John Stones
Phil Jagielka – his fight back as a player and captain.

On the subject of inflexibility I only have two words to say – Silvain Distin. Here is one of my all time favourite Everton photos:

Link

I am totally cheesed off about how this player has been treated this season. He has been a terrific player for us and this is probably his last season in the top flight. This is not how his Everton career should have ended – he deserves better.

On the subject of the photo – will we ever find out what really happened?

Sid Logan
104 Posted 07/04/2015 at 11:27:00
Rob,

I'm not sure Martinez is a believer in the 'running up sandhills' school of training. I know he's a believer in a greater use of training with the ball. I'd believe in that if there was evidence on the pitch that it produced results.

Regardless of whether we train with the ball or not, surely in the Premier League no team can do well without a high level of basic fitness. So – whilst not wanting to be seen as blaming Martinez for everything – my guess is our apparent reduced level of fitness this season is largely down to him. The Manager must surely set the requirement for it. Other coaches carry it out!

Mike Allison
105 Posted 07/04/2015 at 12:03:19
Eddie (#66), you're a case in point of what I'm talking about. You simply can't make an argument in that way. You've basically said "Yeah we won, but we might have lost". That's true of nearly every game, and early in the season it was very true of games we failed to win, but might well have done, not least the very first two of the season.

You are arguing that everything positive is in spite of Martinez and everything negative is because of him. You might as well argue it the other way round for how conclusive the evidence is...

You then do the classic football fans thing of assuming the absolute worst of everything because things are going badly. We were all guilty of the opposite last year, thinking we had quality youngsters knocking on the door, and that top class young players from Spain would flock here for the opportunity to play under Roberto in the Premier League, and being in Europe would make us a magnet for ambitious players from other clubs. It wasn't true in the positive way and it isn't true in the negative way.

I'll quote the great philosopher Terry Venables again (this is becoming something of a catchphrase for me): "Things are never as good as they seem when you're winning and never as bad as they seem when you're losing."

It may not make for great angry debates on the internet, but we will definitely enjoy life a bit more, and enjoy supporting Everton, if we can manage a little bit of a balanced perspective on things.

Who knows, he may not admit it in public yet, but maybe Martinez knows he has got things wrong this season and is making plans to improve for next year.

Tony Abrahams
106 Posted 07/04/2015 at 12:12:20
Exactly, Mike, because if he doesn't know he has made a lot of mistakes this year, and he is to keep his job, we would be well and truly fucked.

I have personally heard that Eto'o was a nightmare from Day One, and he could have destabilised one or two people, but Distin seems a strange one to me as well Laurie. Why didn't he just get rid in January, if he thinks Alcaraz and Barry make better centre-backs?

It could be a very long summer, because if he stays he needs backing. Which isn't always easy when a lot of people don't really want to back him. When people who have watched Everton for 50 and 60 years say this manager will take us down, I start to worry, because these fans have generally seen everything.

James Marshall
107 Posted 07/04/2015 at 12:45:54
Shape? What shape? We're a bloody shambles every week due to his inability to organise and send out a balanced side with any shape at all.

We're all over the place with a midfield like a sieve in every game. He's an idiot. Football is a simple game complicated by so-called 'innovative' managers with delusions of grandeur like this clown.

There's nothing much that hasn't already been said on this thread so I'll have to leave it at that. He's an irritating, feckless fool.

Michael Winstanley
108 Posted 07/04/2015 at 11:44:16
Harold. Love your theory. Just watching BK's face says it all; he has a face like thunder during that press conference.

None of us know what has happened behind the scenes this season but it's clear from what's been happening on the pitch that things ain't been right. The signing of Eto'o and then the release of Eto'o – not a word said.

The first three games of the season, we played okay for 80 mins against Leicester and Arsenal, were slightly exposed by Chelsea but that was a game and a half. Then we won away at West Brom 2-0 and our European adventure took off. I remember us playing well and being robbed by refs, losing through individual errors, Howard being the most costly.

Then he tried to change things, to make us more defensive minded and not so open. We still conceded goals (thanks largely to the individual mistakes) but looked like we wouldn't be scoring many. And then the confidence took a left as we went right and Christmas was diabolical.

Now we've won three on the bounce, Premier League safety is almost assured and players are returning to fitness and even Howard made a couple of decent saves to help us beat Southampton.

I'm not totally sure of Martinez's tactics and preparation for each game, Garbutt speaking after the shambles of Newcastle away gave an un-nerving insight into his pre-match ideology. Baines showing a 'healthy' respect for his manager and staff whilst live on ITV. Little gems from his backroom staff, 'we don't bother with corners' etc.

And yet, as we witnessed last season, with a pretty near full squad playing with confidence we can produce some brilliant football. He secured our highest points total in the Premier League era, we went and played against Arsenal, Man Utd et al and got results. As my old fella says... he showed us the promised land.

I hope Martinez gets next season to bring us back to the top half of the table, I'm not expecting any top four glory – just a continuation of what we saw last season. I like the fact our players look better on the ball than they did under Moyes, although the Howard - Jagielka - Distin triangle did little for our nerves, thankfully we won't have to endure that again.

The big question: Is he the man to turn us around? — I hope so... but then I was happy with his appointment, I liked his overtones about changing the mentality of the players, to play without fear and to enjoy the beautiful game. Importantly, I like his vision for the club and his promotion of youth from the Academy.

I do agree with many on here regarding his bullshit, it is tiresome and if you keep listening it becomes a tad insulting after a while but he's not going to change that. If he sorts out the footy then he can spout what he likes.

Sam Hoare
109 Posted 07/04/2015 at 13:37:20
I'm not against replacing Martinez this Summer but its not going to happen. We must try to give him another chance as BK is going to.

Confidence is key and last season showed that if things are going well then the Spaniards soundbites do sound a lot more palatable and his style of football is not quite so turgid on the eye. He needs to have a great summer in the transfer market (another area in which I doubt his expertise) but we do also have some exciting young players on the fringe and the likes of Stones, Barkley, Lukaku, McCarthy will form the core of our team with another year's experience to gain from.

Football is a fickle game and fortunes can change very quickly and for seemingly little reason. What will not help is if the current apprehension carries over, so I hope that we can manage to get excited about a fresh start next year, hard as I'm finding it at the moment.

On a tangent, its strange for me that my best mate is currently filling the huge advert sidebar on the right of TW. Namedropping I know but very proud of him and watch the show if you have Netflix...

Rob Newling
110 Posted 07/04/2015 at 12:35:03
Fair point, Sid, I'm a sandhills bloke myself. Unfortunately, effort over skill in my case. :)

Think Mike [106] expresses my general concern better than me. By way of a parallel: The current Australian PM, Tony Abbott, is the sole & only cause of each & all of the nation's woes – past, present & future. Fact! He's demonised 24-7 by most media sources. Balanced debate is largely ditched in favour of popular, vocal opinion.

In due course, both Abbott & RM will be replaced. Maybe deservedly, but convenient scapegoats for other culprits too.

Moyes out, Martinez out, Next out? – might help now, but smoke & mirrors nonetheless!

Paul Tran
111 Posted 07/04/2015 at 14:08:55
Eddie, what were the players saying about him last season, when we were in the top five? Just curious...
Patrick Murphy
112 Posted 07/04/2015 at 14:13:16
Paul - The other thing to take note of is did this contact of Eddie's believe he himself would be offered the job at Goodison?

Although Eddie does say that the contact has no axe to grind, I wonder if the contact has a brother who appears regularly on TV?

Mark Andersson
113 Posted 07/04/2015 at 13:54:36
Mr Winstanley, out of all the posts I have read you truly take the mantel of sitting on the fence. Pretend to go along with the boo boys contradicting your own words with faint hope that you might elude to your dad's vision of the promised land.

Martinez loves the gullible, but he now realize that the knowledgeable older fans have him well and truly sussed. Wake up and read their posts and focus on facts, not dreams.

Patrick Murphy
114 Posted 07/04/2015 at 14:19:30
For those who wish to examine Harold's theories, here is part one of the Press Conference on Roberto's arrival at Goodison – if you can bear to watch. I'm sorry to say that when I switched to YouTube the other 'related' videos included "Titanic Disaster Genuine Footage" – hope that isn't a bad omen.

Arrival Part One

Patrick Murphy
115 Posted 07/04/2015 at 14:28:07
Roberto from last season?

Parody RM Interview

Ernie Baywood
116 Posted 07/04/2015 at 14:31:59
He couldn't just be flexible could he?

Had to be one of the most flexible.

Innovatively phenomenal.

Joe Foster
119 Posted 07/04/2015 at 14:40:51
It’s not only flexibility that he rejects – it’s reality and any kind of responsibility. No-one wants him to fail, we would all love him to be the new Pep or whatever, but I just don’t think he has it in him.

I tend to post mainly on the subject of RM because I really think he will damage our club and it scares me. We don’t know what the future holds but, if you follow his previous work as some kind of indicator, then we really do not have much to look forward to.

David Midgley
120 Posted 07/04/2015 at 12:29:54
Last week, before Sunderland beat Newcastle, one of their players said that the new manager had been taking the training sessions. He had done away with the old 4-3-2-1 for a more effective 4-3-3 . How flexible is that?

Oliver Molloy
121 Posted 07/04/2015 at 14:49:10
Eddie, I know someone who knows a first team player with Everton very well – no bullshit. The player (who has been in and out of the side) has told this person that Martinez is a top class and fair manager.

He said that Martinez is still learning the strengths and weaknesses in the squad, that the Europa League took it out of squad... but, without doubt, Martinez will be the Everton manager at the start of the season.

He also said that, behind closed doors, Martinez has had many "discussions" with players admitting that he got certain things on the pitch wrong and there will be a major clear out in the summer and that the player could find himself in front of the manager.

I'm sorry, and with respect I just take with a pinch of salt what you say. There will always be people who have an axe to grind. Only last week, another friend of a friend was speaking with a guy in Scotland who is close to Alan Stubbs and he wasn't very complementary about Martinez, Kenwright, and basically everyone at the club!

One man tells you one thing and another man will tell you another... who are we to believe!

Phil Walling
122 Posted 07/04/2015 at 15:23:06
I think what we may; I believe Martinez had all but delivered on his deal with the chairman for this season.

'There or there abouts' with a top-half Premier League finish and a decent run in the Europa League. What more would our 'survival is sufficient' club chief demand of him?

Under Moyes, we always felt BK was an easy man to work for and I'm sure Roberto had him sussed from the day he got the job.

Like it or like it not, I suspect that we are in for a long spell with the Catalan in charge – so get used to it. Personally, I shall not be rushing to take in every home game next season, so have downgraded my season tickets accordingly... I suspect I shall not be alone!

Sam Hoare
123 Posted 07/04/2015 at 15:51:43
Oliver (#121), I hope you're right. About the clear out at least. I think we could really use some fresh impetus and some more energy and pace in the team.

I would happily lose Alcaraz, Distin, Pienaar, Howard, Hibbert and maybe McGeady off the wage bill to make way for some younger, hungrier players.

Barry is staying; Jagielka, Baines, Osman and Nasmith still have plenty to offer, so there are the senior pros.

I guess a lot will depend on bids coming in but I hope, with money available, Martinez has targets already so they have time to bed in...

Oliver Molloy
124 Posted 07/04/2015 at 16:07:19
I agree, Sam. Distin, Alcaraz & Pienaar should definitely be gone. Life-long Evertonian, Hibbert, will be retained at the club in some capacity.

If possible, I would like to see McGeady, Barry and Gibson move on, but that depends on what offers are on the table.

Mirallas will stay and see his contract out unless that Champions League club comes in for him. (I can not see him signing for the likes of West Ham!)

I would love to see Howard going too... but I reckon we will have this clown for another season.

If I was Martinez, I would be sending Lennon back to Spurs, but I am not Martinez!

We need to sign a striker, a midfielder, maybe two, who can spot a pass and play one – forward, a strong "take no prisoners" centre-half... and that's only for starters.

If a massive bid comes in for Ross, in my opinion, we should accept it.

Ray Said
125 Posted 07/04/2015 at 16:27:52
To me, there is one key question that decides future action: Based on the evidence we have seen with our own eyes, is giving Martinez a third season gambling the club's Premier League status?

If the answer is Yes, then the course is clear.

Kevin Tully
126 Posted 07/04/2015 at 16:36:56
We have lost 12 games so far this season. We lost 13 the season we finished 4th! That's not a defence of the awful season we have all endured, but let's wait until game 38 before we judge the eventual outcome.

Individual mistakes and Europe have cost us dearly, but Martinez is equally culpable for poor tactics and team selection. I'm not particularly arsed what he says to the media, but it seems most want to judge his managerial ability by his Echo interviews.

Tony J Williams
127 Posted 07/04/2015 at 16:50:50
The rumour in the ground on Saturday is that Howard is definitely going back to the MLS at the end of the season.
Steve Brown
128 Posted 07/04/2015 at 16:49:49
His footballing philosophy has verged on stupidity this season when his squad was rapidly losing confidence. He needed to revert to a more pragmatic approach. Since has started to do that – too late – we have begun to get results.

He is undoubtedly stubborn and like many managers thinks he has some deeper insights in football tactics that the mere mortal fans cannot see. But, he gave us our best ever Premier League total haul last season and has earned the right to put things right over the summer. If he cannot show progress by November, he will be sacked.

Ross Edwards
129 Posted 07/04/2015 at 17:12:37
As we all know, actions speak far louder than words. I think Kenwright's silence this season is telling.

Last season I remember him on Pointless with Jenny and boasting on Sky Sports about how wonderful Martinez is and how he would do everything to keep Lukaku, how great it was to be in Europe again etc.

This season, silence. I think it tells me that he is not happy with Martinez. Maybe he'll wait until the end of the season to say something.

Paul Hughes
130 Posted 07/04/2015 at 17:49:34
Why canÂ’t Kenwright or somebody from the board tell us what they think of the season, how much funds will be made available for new signings and how the new stadium plans are coming along?
Joe Clitherow
131 Posted 07/04/2015 at 18:03:38
Steve 128

You say he has "earned the right to put things right over the summer". No surprise clearly that I take a different view.

But there are a couple of things implied by that statement which scare me a lot if that is the mind set of execs in our club.

Firstly, you consider only one possibility, that of putting it right. What if he can't put it right? What if, in fact, he dismantles a squad of players put together over years at a stroke? You might say sack him in November but sorry, too late, damage done. No individual has the right to destroy an institution like Everton.

Mainly though, he has earned nothing, nada, zilch, not a thing. We owe him not a jot, he has been paid handsomely for his efforts.

The decision to sack or keep him, or any business decision, should be based solely on available facts , not on "one good, one bad, let's see how the next one turns out" and for my view I just need to watch the increasing shambles he has turned out which does actually date back to last season when he was found out.

Emotions as you espouse have no place in this decision but my worry is that you may possibly have accurately described the thought process of BK.

Amother transfer window for this clown may doom us for years.

James Hughes
132 Posted 07/04/2015 at 18:31:34
I have only just seen this article (holiday away from everything). All I can say itÂ’s good job this didnÂ’t come out on the 1st April. Then even less people would believe it.

Yes Don Quixote, sorry Roberto, you are the managerial equivalent of a contortionist. In your hands we will win the league next year, CL as well the year after and a treble in 2018.

Huzzah for Don, sorry, Roberto.

Andrew Clare
133 Posted 07/04/2015 at 18:36:29
I think the tagline for The Alien film, 'in space no one can hear you scream' applies to ToffeeWeb forums.

Kenwright and Martinez ain't listening!

Andy Crooks
134 Posted 07/04/2015 at 18:44:55
If Martinez was sacked tomorrow, we would not suddenly be a a sacking club. We would be a club with three coaches in about 15 years. We would also be minus, what in my view is, possibly the worst coach in our history.
Harold Matthews
135 Posted 07/04/2015 at 19:01:30
Okay Patrick. It doesn't sound too bad second time around but it fails to convey the frustration of the delays and the ill-tempered early bit has been chopped off. It has also been well and truly edited by Everton FC. Bill was not genuinely happy that day but his acting experience carried him through.
Patrick Murphy
136 Posted 07/04/2015 at 19:26:08
I thought it might have been an edited version, Harold; North Korean rules and all that.
Peter Mills
137 Posted 07/04/2015 at 18:54:01
If you are going to justify a salary of, what, ٠m pa, the manager needs to have a philosophy, a methodology, see things others cannot, be flexible with his ideas, innovative, change things that others would not.

Otherwise they might as well just appoint a hockey coach like Brian (#87) who simply talks common sense. Brian, as a fellow member of the 50+ years club, are you looking for an agent?

Brian Porter
138 Posted 07/04/2015 at 20:01:58
Hello Peter #137. Thanks for acknowledging the common sense of my previous post. Believe it or not, I am also qualified to coach football but at a lower level. Hockey and football share the same number of players, playing in the same positions and the tactics employees
Brian Porter
139 Posted 07/04/2015 at 20:06:20
Thanks for acknowledging the common sense of my previous post. Believe it or not, I am also qualified to coach football but at a lower level. Hockey and football share the same number of players, playing in the same positions and the tactics employed in hockey are not very different from football.

There is no rocket science required in coaching a willing set of players and fitting them into the team in the correct positions. Only an idiot plays experienced players out of position and then expects them to do a good job. Peter, I'll be sure to call you if I'm in need of an agent... hehe. And thankyou.

Peter Mills
140 Posted 07/04/2015 at 20:22:42
Brian, just in case you think my post was ironic, your posts have been a joy, a real knife cutting through the bullshit that surrounds our beautiful game. Bob Paisley, Howard Kendall, Brian Clough would, I'm sure, agree 100% with you.
Patrick Murphy
141 Posted 07/04/2015 at 20:36:45
Unfortunately our current boss seems to think that the character of his players is more important than their form or ability on any given day. I'm all for picking and choosing those players that will stand up and be counted when the chips are down but not if the overall effect is to weaken the side.

As you say Peter, Kendall, Clough, Paisley et al may seem old-fashioned in this modern day era of statistics etc but pick your best eleven players who will give a 100% out on the pitch and you won't go far wrong. Start choosing personality over ability and inevitably problems will arise and cause uncertainty all over the pitch.

Eddie Dunn
142 Posted 07/04/2015 at 20:40:02
Oliver, whether you believe me or not is your prerogative, but to clarify my contact was not talking about one or two players, it was his impression as a whole. As I said earlier, I am sure there are some players who think Martinez is great, and as some of them have been signed on long and lucrative contracts by him, this would be expected.

I am only sharing this knowledge because I like everyone else on here am worried for our club, and I am interested in any information that can make me have a better understanding on just why things have gone so wrong.

Mike Allison, the point I was making is that 3 wins , lucky or not does not change the way we have performed over the rest of the season, and the last quarter of last season.

We have been shite away at Southampton, at Newcastle, at Hull, at Man Utd (despite the late rally). We will see over time and hopefully hear a bit more about what has been going on.

I am sure Roberto has done enough to keep his job, so we will see what he does about the situation. I hope we are not wasting our time wondering about these same issues next Easter.

Ross Edwards
143 Posted 07/04/2015 at 21:12:15
Jose Mourinho had it right on the subject of getting another season or contract. He was talking about Arsenal last season and he said that he wanted to deserve another contract rather than demand or expect another go.

There are some fans that think Martinez deserves another season because of last season. Well surely that's a reason not to. The fact that he has turned us into a boring, turgid disorganised shambles in a year proves that he doesn't deserve another year in charge.

Take Michael Laudrup: Won the League Cup, the following season, sacked. Just because Martinez did well last season it doesn't automatically mean that he deserves another go if results and performances in season 2 are poor.

Or a new 5-year contract. Which means it's impossible to sack him. Like Pardew at Newcastle getting a 7-year contract after getting 5th. Sound familiar? Hmm.

Patrick Murphy
145 Posted 07/04/2015 at 21:39:54
Ross - I watched Wolves and Leeds last night and one of the Leeds player has it written into his current contract that if he scores a dozen league goals he automatically get an improved contract offer; he is currently on ten. QPR must be kicking themselves unable to hold onto the lead against Villa at Villa Park, but I suppose the final score wasn't too bad for Everton as they both dropped points and only have six matches remaining, not that we we're in any real trouble before that game started,
Darren Hind
146 Posted 07/04/2015 at 21:03:34
Many of us saw right through this con man from the off.

I decided to stop listening to him when he tried to tell us Jelavic was in a good moment of form... The guy had spent the previous 3 months looking like he'd never played the game.

It's not as if he is even a good con man, there was no slight of hand involved when he fucked off for a couple of months and lined his pockets working for his future employers whilst still drawing his wages from us.

How he must have chuckled to himself when his supporters lapped up his promise to sign 6-7 players on his return..

He must have pissed himself when they bought his promises to give youth a chance. A large part of Evertonia has been uncharacteristically gullible. Maybe after the miserable GT, they were desperate to believe anything remotely positive. They adored "BBS" and his pie-in-the-sky bollocks, but their support has been betrayed, their defence laid bare, all of their arguments systematically dismantled. Not by his detractors but by RM himself.

It's now a great source of amusement to fans of other clubs that so many of us believed Robbie's promise to reopen the School of Science.

Our football has been camel ugly and three straight wins won't change that fact. Let's put an end to this embarrassment. Now.

Mike Allison
147 Posted 07/04/2015 at 22:41:10
Sure Eddie, but we've only been as bad this season as we were good last season, also under Martinez. My issue is with the people who over dramatising the situation, we are all extremely disappointed with this season, and some really bad things are happening or have happened.

What I'm saying is that this doesn't mean nothing good can happen from here on in. There are many posters now on ToffeeWeb who are faced with the prospect of either admitting they've been woefully wrong and have over-reacted in a rather childish and unpleasant fashion, or of continuing to criticise the manager and pick faults with him even when he does quite well. The first of those options is unlikely to happen and the second will make discussions on ToffeeWeb decidedly less enjoyable than they should be. Posts like Darren Hind's above make me genuinely worried for some people's mental state and the lives they must live if they're willing to express such thoughts.

We're simply not as bad as some people are making out, and we may do well next season, it's perfectly reasonable to wait and see. Personally I would only really be in favour of doing so if Martinez admitted his mistakes and explained how he was going to do better next year, but he may well have done that already behind closed doors. His current issue is that he's getting the PR wrong, as he's won three straight games and people are still spitting blood. I am extremely heartened by Oliver's post (#121) and hope that Martinez can be big enough and intelligent enough to give the fans some credit and speak publicly.

Patrick Murphy
148 Posted 07/04/2015 at 23:51:05
Mike - I agree with some of your post, because in the context of the previous 28 league games it is a little bit churlish to poo poo 3 consecutive victories because they were needed and the manner in which they were achieved was immaterial.

However, given that most of the league campaign has been littered with strange formations, lack of width and a penchant for error ridden performances it would seem that for the team and perhaps the manager, winning the Europa League was the priority and the Premier League campaign took a back-seat, a gamble which could have ended in disaster if those 3 recent wins hadn't have arrived when they did.

Combine that with the average arrivals that Roberto has brought to Goodison and there is more than enough reason for some Blues to be concerned about the coming season. I for one am resigned to seeing Roberto in the hot-seat next season and I also hope my assessment of his managerial ability is way off the mark, but I am finding it difficult to point out anything that he has done this season which would help me to believe that he is the right manager for Everton at this moment in time.

It hasn't only been the results that have underwhelmed but the football itself hasn't been of a standard that we would have expected from an experienced group of players. Perhaps, there has been some form of mutiny from some players and if Roberto has identified those and rids the club of them in the summer, he might be able to re-invigorate the team and thus Everton FC's fortunes on the pitch - we would all welcome that even those who have had an agenda against Roberto since he signed the dotted line in June 2013.

Andy Crooks
149 Posted 08/04/2015 at 00:53:42
Mike, I would admit to a tendency to over dramatize. Sometimes my reactions are childish, but, I hope, never unpleasant. However, I have long considered Darren Hind to be one of the reasonable ones. I have often disagreed with him but, frankly, if he thinks it's shite, then it just might be shite.
Darren Hind
150 Posted 08/04/2015 at 03:50:04
Mike # 147

You seem like a very nice guy. Your concern for my – and other Evertonians' – mental wellbeing is really rather touching. Fair play to you, Fella... but when you hang your hopes on Roberto "Admitting his mistakes" or a I-know-somebody-who-knows-a-first-team-player post, I can't help thinking you are offering me a bump start as your house burns down.

There is no over dramatisation. We really have been that bad... and if you don't recognise that, you simply haven't been paying attention.

Despite being a long-time critic, I have stayed away from booing or calling for Martinez's head. I was worried about the possible destabilising effect. Yeah, we won three on the bounce, but ask any Evertonan: Those victories were greeted more with relief than joy... and they were against teams we would all have expected to beat before a poorly prepared Martinez plunged us into this season of frustration and at times despair.

"There are many posters on TW who are faced with the prospect of either admitting they got it woefully wrong and have over reacted in a rather childish and unpleasant fashion" ... Hello!!

If you had been paying attention, Mike, you'd have noticed this has already happened, not just on TW, but throughout Evertonia. Those adoring hoards who thought we were being led to glory by "Barça's next Manager" are now either completely silent or desperately clinging to the hope that their idol will come good. They're easy to recognise; their posts usually start with "I know this season has been shite ... BUT."

Evertonians have suffered for a long time. For whatever reason, we we boring to watch under Walker, Smith and for the first 9 years under Moyes, but for the past three seasons this group of players have shown themselves to be capable of playing really attractive football. It wouldn't have taken much to keep it going, but Martinez's inflexibility has plunged us to new depths this season. He has somehow managed to turn our long-awaited Swans into pug ugly Ducklings. There should be a price to pay for that and your boy should be paying it.

We're probably all a bit unhinged – why else would we put ourselves through this, but given the choice I think I'd rather be depressed than delusional... I can at least see a reason for feeling depressed.

Colin Glassar
151 Posted 08/04/2015 at 08:22:39
Darren, I know this season has been shite but, surely even you can see green shoots appearing. Yes? No?
Dave Abrahams
152 Posted 08/04/2015 at 08:39:52
Mike (147), have you been happy with the performances of the last three games?
Tony Abrahams
153 Posted 08/04/2015 at 08:36:43
Colin, I don't think credit is the right word, but Darren was the one I remember who was questioning Martinez before a ball was kicked this season. He had his reasons and I think he's been proved right, unlike "Phil The Greek" who mostly just browbeated about Wigan.

I know the question was for Darren, but I don't see many green shoots at the minute, well not at Goodison anyway.

I said I'm torn on the manager, and the reason is very simple. Our Captain is saying he expects an overhaul of the squad this summer, and the way Martinez has performed since last July, I'm not sure I fully trust him at the minute.

Sam Hoare
154 Posted 08/04/2015 at 08:50:04
Colin, what are these green shoots you speak of? Yes, the results have been better in the league but not necessarily the performances and we have been slightly fortunate, certainly at QPR.

I haven't given up on Martinez yet but I can't say that I've seen a lot in the last few months to give me cause for optimism.

John Keating
155 Posted 08/04/2015 at 08:55:06
Colin,

I appreciate you have supported Martinez regardless but you are sounding like his after-match interviews. You are refusing to see/accept what everyone has witnessed.

We were put in a terrible position by the manager. We have recently had 3 wins to get ourselves out of trouble but the football we witnessed was a disgrace – one shot on target at home against Southampton – what type of philosophy is that?

I see no green shoots at all, just more dross. I am really concerned that this joker will be here to oversee our close season transfer dealings and preseason. Giving him the benefit of the doubt until some unspecified period next season may well catch us out. We were lucky this season, Wigan were for a while but finally succumbed; who is to say this joker may not have a groundhog day with us.

Sorry, Colin, the risk is too great, this guy needs to go.

Ross Edwards
156 Posted 08/04/2015 at 09:19:58
If there are green shoots, Colin, they must be very small. Other than results improving, there is very little to be optimistic about next season looking at recent performances.
Oliver Molloy
157 Posted 08/04/2015 at 09:07:18
Darren @ 150

When have you ever heard a manager who is looking to move a player on say he is shite!

Regards my original post, I only said what I was told face-to-face by this guy who is, as I have said, on very good speaking terms with this first team player, and I have no reason not to believe him.

At no time did I try to defend Martinez's performance this season but, if you asked me, yes I think he deserves 10 games to prove this season was one to forget and lessons will have been learned.

I have no doubt that the chairman will mark Martinez's card, if he has already done so. I respect those whose opinion is he should get the sack... but, after season one, I believe Martinez deserves the 8-10 games to sort it out.

Look across the park and see the problems that are starting to appear over there!

Andrew Ellams
158 Posted 08/04/2015 at 09:26:29
8-10 games into a season is never the right time to sack a manager. Many teams have started badly over that period and turned seasons around. Either Martinez goes as soon as the season finishes or he is here for the long haul next season.

Performances have been poor over the last few games but winning does breed confidence so maybe the performances will get better over the last few weeks of the season. But, if there is to be a big clearout in the summer, I'm not sure what good green shoots appearing in April will do in the long run...

Ross Edwards
159 Posted 08/04/2015 at 10:23:28
Let's not get into giving him 10 games. Either we get rid of him in the summer, get a new man in, or back him.

I'd prefer us to get a new man in if someone of a good calibre becomes available. But we all know that won't happen.

Andrew Clare
160 Posted 08/04/2015 at 10:27:27
If we win 4 or 5 of the last seven games then bear with him for next season.

In reality, that isn't going to happen, especially the way we have been playing, so he should go in the summer. Of course that isn't going to happen and unfortunately we will be stuck with him for next season.

As for 'green shoots', Colin — where?

Chris Feeley
161 Posted 08/04/2015 at 10:09:52
Oliver @157,

To give Martinez any games next season, he needs to merit it by showing his flexibility in terms of selection policy and tactical approach for the remainder of this. Giving youth a chance and at least experimenting with 4-4-2 at home would be a step in the right direction. That will go a long way towards swaying those that are on the fence regarding his future to give him a chance.

The problem is that, if he remains inflexible with both his tactics and selections, we run the considerable risk of writing off next season as well as this one. Using Moyes's tenure as a blueprint, if we started well, we generally qualified for Europe but, when we started poorly we generally fell short. This (so far) has been the same under Martinez.

The first 8-10 games are massively important as they set the tone and expectation for the season ahead for both players and fans. If there is nothing to suggest flexibility and tactical nous in the remainder of this season, betting on Martinez somehow 'turning it around' over the summer is the same as buying magic beans and expecting a money tree to grow – the stuff of fairy tales.

The idea that we will suddenly be awash with cash to throw around in the transfer market is fanciful – we've been sold that dream before. The wage structure can't cope with overhauling the squad with better players en mass, as better players will need to be better paid and demand to win things.

Promoting youth players, and not wasting wages on pointless loans like Atsu and Traore before him, is the way forward. Unfortunately, Martinez does not have form regarding this.

Mark Andersson
162 Posted 08/04/2015 at 11:14:18
I've never been a gambling man – not in the sense of putting money on horses and footy games and the like. However, in terms of life, we all have to gamble with some decisions. I always have a Plan B, always prepared to cut my losses if need be.

It seems to me neither Martinez or Blue Bill have that mentality. So, as much as most here would cut their loss and sack Martinez, seems like we are all resigned to have more of the same come next season.

ToffeeWeb will be my source of entertainment throughout the summer, as we all debate the incomings and outgoings of an ageing squad. I will not get excited about anyone Martinez brings in, as the man has already proven he is incompetent in the transfer windows.

Rob Newling
163 Posted 08/04/2015 at 11:11:14
We all know it won't happen, but what if we turned over Manure later this month? Or Spurs?

How did such an inept tactician defy the odds last season, or inspire our Europa League run? (Bar the obvious exception!)

The equally (?) useless Moyes took us to the Champions League, (don't get me started on that 'stitch up'!!), & both got underdogs to the Cup Final.

Infuriating? Very! Stubborn? Yes! Incapable? ....

Doubt that he's stupid enough to risk his reputation / job again next season.

Where's Richard Dodd when the glasses need refilling?

Ross Edwards
164 Posted 08/04/2015 at 12:01:44
If we get top 6 next season, I will be amazed. Because the way we're playing right now, we look like finishing in a similar position again, unless we make some very good signings.
Chris Gould
165 Posted 08/04/2015 at 12:37:09
Green shoots?!

If there are any green shoots, then they must be covered in cow shit. Martinez has consistently stunk the place out.

We have scraped together a few results with barely any shots on goal and no cohesion whatsoever. Our standard of play has been so poor that it couldn't get any worse. The improvement in recent results should not be enough to keep Martinez as manager.

Does anyone really believe that someone who has made so many obvious mistakes over and over again is fit to manage our great club AND take them back into the top 6?!!

Colin Metcalfe
166 Posted 08/04/2015 at 12:08:51
Call me an optimist but I fully expect Martinez to get his marching orders soon after the last game of the season. Bill Kenwright has many qualities, including patience; however, he is without doubt a staunch Evertonian and even he must have been wincing at some of the dross we have witnessed this season

Unfortunately, Premier League managers are only as good as their results these days and Martinez has fallen way short of what we expect at Everton FC.

Kenwright has to admit he got it wrong and cut his loses – and let's not forget, Martinez has cost the club by giving out ridiculous contracts to players – 3 years to Barry, 5 years to Naismith, etc.

There are so many examples of how Martinez got it wrong this season, it nearly makes my head spin: the mishandling of Barkley; the dropping of Robles after 3 clean sheets; players constantly playing out of position; the Saints game away; and the embarrassing/humiliating loss at Kiev!

Everton took a gamble with Moyes and it paid off handsomely; however, with Martinez, it just didn't work... and yes, after a promising first season, he has now been ruthlessly found out and is simply out of his depth.

Peter Murray
167 Posted 08/04/2015 at 12:39:49
Surely, when continuously you witness weekly, throughout 15+ home games, horrendous totally ineffective "team" performances, that appear spiritless, characterless, that to 25-30,000 supporters, is obvious, then 'stubborn', is the minimum of a description deserved. Please explain why a team successfully utilised winning tactics against Southampton, couldn't have attempted similar, in the mickey mouse Europa League??

Tactically inept – only an imbecile, would resort to the same, unsuccessful setup, tactics and not observe along the line – that perhaps – we could change things, as a minimum!!!

YOU CAN KID ALL THE PEOPLE SOME OF THE TIME, BUT NOT ALL THE PEOPLE ALL OF THE TIME... obviously Premier League Managers

In my opinion, any sane person, considering Alcaraz, for future selection of the Blues isn't just worthy of being described as "stubborn", but perhaps something definitely more apt & accurate!!

COYB

David Kershaw
168 Posted 08/04/2015 at 13:00:42
Does anybody know how the sales of season tickets is going?? To my mind, this is one thing that might affect the manager's position with the board (ie, Kenwright).

I don't think anybody can argue about the standard of football this season. Fans pay a lot of money to watch these games and at the moment are not getting value for their hard earned money!

ps: See ya in Singapore!

Jay Harris
169 Posted 08/04/2015 at 16:09:36
Colin (#166), how I wish you were right but we have to remember that we are talking about a man who for over 10 years has been looking 24/7 for a buyer (investor) and who took the easy option (ie, no work) into interviewing Neville, Stubbs, Weir and Martinez for the job.

Bill has no time to run the club other than talking the club up when he appears on Sky and watching the games as Chairman.

The only way this mistake will be rectified is by an uproar from the fans and he seems to have survived that hurdle unless we collapse again on the run in.

Jay Harris
170 Posted 08/04/2015 at 16:09:36
Colin #166 how I wish you were right but we have to remember that we are talikng about a man who for over 10 years has been looking 24/7 for a buyer (investor)and who took the easy option (i.e. no work) into interviewing Neville, Stubbs, Weir and Martinez for the job.

Bill has no time to run the club other than talking the club up when he appears on Sky and watching the games as Chairman.

The only way this mistake will be rectified is by an uproar from the fans and he seems to have survived that hurdle unless we collapse again on the run in.

Andrew Ellams
171 Posted 08/04/2015 at 16:28:15
I think there could be a few PL managers dreading their end of season review and may not survive them and Roberto could be one of them along with Rodgers, Pellegrini, Ramsey and Carver
Steve Brown
172 Posted 08/04/2015 at 17:33:12
Joe 131, you can be as emotional as you want mate and no worries from me. It's a gut-churning, nerve-shredding, hope-shattering pit of despair supporting Everton!

And that's usually before half time.

Ross Edwards
173 Posted 08/04/2015 at 18:12:26
I know I keep banging on about it but the fact that Kenwright has been silent all season speaks volumes to me. He didn't back RM publicly when results were worsening.

Although he is unlikely to act, I don't think his position is fully secured yet.

Joe Clitherow
174 Posted 08/04/2015 at 18:40:30
Steve 172

I'm not talking about the match or the fans, emotion goes with the territory. That can't be allowed into decisions that affect the business. My point was last season has earned Martinez feck all in the decision around things going forward as I think you well knew!

Raymond Fox
175 Posted 08/04/2015 at 18:03:36
Mike 147, agree with every word.

It's become a depressing experience reading this forum. I think far too many of you have expectations which are not realistic. Just where in the PL do you think we should finish each year with the players we can afford to buy and pay the crazy wages they demand?

We've not won a trophy since Adam was a lad, for god's sake, I don't care who is manager, I don't see that changing anytime soon! All I see each time I log on, is such a player's rubbish, he's rubbish also, the manager's rubbish. I said before the season started that we would finish 10th-ish because of the strain the Europa League would place on the squad. We are 12th at the moment, not great I concede, but it's not earth shatteringly worse than I expected!

What the club needs is not a new manager, its 㿞m+ a year more for better quality players. Until this happens, expect our fortunes to stay the same.

Joe Clitherow
176 Posted 08/04/2015 at 19:46:41
Raymond,

How about 8th minimum? Which is where our wages spend average over the last few years places us (9th this season) and is the lowest we have finished in the last 9 seasons. Then again, if you want to push the boat out a bit, how about 7th, 6th, 5th in the last three seasons with largely the same group of players plus the addition of a 㿈m forward?

Do you actually watch us play and are your expectations so low that the standard of football this team currently plays is acceptably realistic? Is a single shot on target all game enough for you and a realistic expectation for the 8th/9th highest wage paying club? Are footballing lessons from clubs that spend considerably less, such as Hull and Stoke, a realistic expectation then?

Mike Allison
177 Posted 08/04/2015 at 19:52:46
Dave, the last three games have been won. That means I'm happy. Sure I'd like to win 5-0 every week with brilliant flowing performances, but we both know football isn't like that. I'm relieved, and happy, that we've found a way of scoring more goals than the opposition, as opposed to making more passes than them. It's almost as if there are green shoots of recovery starting to appear.

Don't get me wrong, I'm still 50/50 at best on whether to keep Martinez... and, as I've said a few times now, all it would take would be for him to publicly acknowledge what he's got wrong and that we'll be working on improving that and I'll be back on board. But he hasn't done that and doesn't seem likely to, so I'm not happy with him overall. I just don't think he's a complete moron who's completely incapable of doing anything right and is currently presiding over the permanent destruction of Everton Football Club.

Right now I could take him or leave him, but I think we all know that he'll be the manager next season, so he'll need to court the supporters and the supporters will need to try to back him. The simplest way is for the team to start getting results, and look, they have. The problem is that that doesn't seem enough for some people.

Ross Edwards
178 Posted 08/04/2015 at 20:11:03
Raymond, Everton should be getting top 7 maximum every season. That's more than reasonable enough, I think. Bottom half is a sackable offence with the squad we have.
Ross Edwards
179 Posted 08/04/2015 at 20:15:17
And let's be honest, we deserve a lot better performances and style of football than what we're presently being subjected to.

If you're happy with scrappy, fortunate wins despite being outplayed in the last two games, let's get Sam Allardyce or bring Moyes back.

Ross Edwards
180 Posted 08/04/2015 at 20:19:50
Basically, we should be challenging for Europe every year, not battling for mid table with Stoke, Swansea, Hull, Palace and Newcastle.
Paul Tran
181 Posted 08/04/2015 at 20:27:29
I've said all along, any half-decent manager could keep this side in the top eight. It's not a work of genius. It's why I was never impressed by the "Moyes is a genius" argument.

So, by my own reckoning, Martinez is in trouble. I think there's a good manager somewhere in Martinez – you don't change a team's style and have them finish 5th without having something.

I've met a lot of talented people who think their weaknesses are their strengths. That belief creates their downfall and I think Martinez is one of those people. He really thinks he's flexible, innovative and successful. Genuinely successful people tend to know their strengths and play to them ruthlessly and efficiently – think of Mourinho and Ferguson. They also make mistakes and demonstrate that they've learned from them.

I have no idea what happens behind the scenes. I do know that Martinez has a heck of a job getting his credibility back with us. Last season I thought we had a manager with a method that would work long term. This season he's replaced a good formula with a mess and just like his predecessor, there is no rhyme or reason to selection, performances or results.

He's had one good year and one poor year. Last year he was deserving of praise; this year he's lost it completely and has looked right out of his depth. Like his predecessor here, he has been indulged to the point that he believes he can do no wrong and when he's up against it, he's clueless.

I'd sack him as soon as the season finishes. The real issue for me is the worry that we'll end up with a cheap Mr Shouty Sweary who will guarantee us nothing more than the midtable finish Martinez will give us.

Kevin Tully
182 Posted 08/04/2015 at 21:06:16
The only place we are going for our next manager is down a division (Eddie Howe) or more likely, an ex-player who will be just glad for the lottery win that is a Premier League manager's wage.

So – before anyone starts dreaming about a fancy foreign coach to take us into the Champions League – forget it.

Darren Hind
183 Posted 09/04/2015 at 06:12:38
You still here Paul ? #181

Get down to Finch Farm and start asking those questions. Give tomorrow a miss if you have to pass Aintree though - its "That" day

Paul Tran
184 Posted 09/04/2015 at 07:09:27
Sorry Darren, I've got this week at home in the Highlands, enjoying Easter, our 1-0 win on my laptop, my birthday yesterday in the sunny Cairngorms and now Aintree.

I just thought of some questions that the likes of Prentice should be asking. If he's not allowed to ask them, I'd happily do it myself. More constructive than constantly shouting 'he'll take us down '. He won't, by the way. I'll ask them on Skype if Roberto has the time......

Still if we all have a good Aintree, maybe we can buy the club off Bill and put things right.

Eric Myles
185 Posted 09/04/2015 at 17:30:30
Paul (#181) "I think there's a good manager somewhere in Martinez – you don't change a team's style and have them finish 5th without having something."

And what would you say that a manager that takes a 5th-place finishing side and changes their style to have them fighting relegation brings to the table?

Most supporters seem to think he'll deliver a lot less than mid-table mediocrity based on current performance; what makes you think he can attain that high a level consistently?

Steve Brown
186 Posted 09/04/2015 at 17:43:36
Joe (#174), incorrect. I didn't know that was what you meant, so calm yourself down.

There is no emotion involved in deciding that, on a balanced assessment of RM's performance over the last two seasons, he will be given the first quarter of the new season to see if he can improve the performance of the team. There wouldn't be a CEO or business president left in a FTSE 100 company if businesses took decisions based on a 6-9 month view of performance.

Perhaps you will be more credible when telling posters not to let emotion sway them if you use less emotive language.

Steve Brown
187 Posted 09/04/2015 at 17:56:57
That isn't by the way a defence of RM. If you read my post properly (#128) you will see that.
Paul Tran
188 Posted 09/04/2015 at 18:06:41
Eric, you might want to read all of my post, particularly the bit where I said I'd sack him at the end of the season. That, I hope, answers your question.

If you could also show me the bit where I said he would attain a high level consistently, I'd be grateful as I don't remember typing it.

I'm all for a debate, but I tend to use my actual points, rather than the ones people make on my behalf.

Darren Hind
189 Posted 09/04/2015 at 18:14:15
They are a good set of questions, Paul, but Prentice will never ask them.

Winning a fortune at Aintree and buying the club from Kenwright sounds like an excellent plan – I'm deffo in.

In the meantime, we may want to just Goonyellat him.

Eddie Dunn
190 Posted 09/04/2015 at 19:10:19
I am wondering where all of Everton's money goes, and how much of it goes into the transfer kitty. I am off to Swansea on Saturday, only 50 miles or so for me, in west Wales and they are a club who share a ground with Ospreys rugby club and get by on 20,000 sell-outs.

Now I seem to remember them spending 㾸 million on Bony (and getting 㿈 mill for him). They always have good players, with possession-based football, but with pace, and they seem to do okay.

If a team of such modest means can compete with us in the transfer market, and attract good players from the continent, and can sit above us in the league, then what are we (as a club) doing wrong?

Paul Tran
191 Posted 09/04/2015 at 20:37:53
Not much chance of that after three seconds today Darren. Currently up Rocky Creek without a paddle.

Joe Clitherow
192 Posted 09/04/2015 at 20:45:08
Steve (#186) I was – and am – quite calm when I posted. I think you are projecting on to me something which is not there, but no matter.

That aside, I disagree completely with your FTSE analogy; it bears no comparison. There would be no appointments in the first instance to a CEO of a FTSE 100 company from an manager who had bankrupted his previous company as his last act. If this highly unlikely scenario actually occurred and then after a while this CEO looked like doing the same to his current, he or she would be out tout de suite and in a lot less than 6-9 months too. Most FTSE CEOs are actually quite competent with strong track records, unlike Sr Martinez.

But, apart from that, it isn't 6-9 months of poor performance is it? It is at least 13 months of poor performance going back to at least March last year. My own view is the poor performances can be traced back to Jan 28 last year. 13-15 months of steadily decreasing performance out of 22 is a very different picture.

For anyone who wants to look further, it is obvious this guy should never have been given the gig in the first place. All he is doing with Everton is no different from what he has done his whole career.

Dave Abrahams
193 Posted 09/04/2015 at 21:05:57
Paul (191) Rocky Creek, that's a good tip for Saturday. NATIONAL.

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