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Everton Shareholders Forum

21/04/2015  Comments (149)  jump
Highlights from Joe Beardwood's presentation
At the latest EFC Shareholders Forum, Management Consultant Joe Beardwood gave a presentation on Everton's finances and offered his assessment of where the club currently stands in its quest to return to the top of the domestic game.

Joe, a long-time contributor to ToffeeWeb when it comes to the interpretation of Everton's annual accounts, was invited by the Shareholders Association to discuss the impact of the record new television rights deal and he covered a number of points, including:

The lack of growth in Everton's non-media revenue
Everton were 9th in the non-media revenue table for 2013-14 which, Joe says, is a key performance indicator.

Over the last 10 years, Everton have only grown their non-media revenue by 0.5% a year.

The clubs with the biggest wage bills have a lock on the Champions League places
All four Champions League spots in 2012-13 were taken by biggest wage bills. At the top of the Premier League, you don't really get deviations in the ratio of wage bill to league finish of more than 3 places.

Liverpool FC can get away with spending so much in wages because their non-media (commercial) revenue is so high and rising all the time.

The challenge for clubs like Everton, Aston Villa and Newcastle is to resist demands of supporters to risk the long-term investment in the infrastructure of the club by allowing wages to go above 70% of operating costs.

His plea to the Board: "Please come up with a realistic business plan which is sustainable and drives our key performance indicators forward."

Everton has been open to investment but not an outright sale
"One of the big problems [is the phrase] I'm looking for investment'. [Bill Kenwright] is not looking for investment he's [effectively] looking for donations.

"The truth is he doesn't want to sell. He's a wonderful Evertonian. His heart is completely in the right place. but it's been like having my dad, who is a docker, in control... deep down, he doesn't want (to sell)."

Without a Sheilkh Mansour or a Roman Abramovich, Everton can't realistically win the league.

Given Everton's lack of corporate pull, the club don't need a new stadium
Everton are not a corporate club and new stadiums are all about executive boxes. Everton don't need a new stadium.

"I think Walton Hall Park is probably as ill-advised as Kirkby was. My concern is that Liverpool Council, Everton in the Community and Liverpool Homes are not the ideal partners financially."

Summarised from: Liverpool Echo Live Blog


Reader Comments (149)

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Ross Edwards
1 Posted 21/04/2015 at 21:55:32
Â’DonationsÂ’. What does this board think we are? A fucking charity? Jesus Christ. We are a laughing stock. And basically itÂ’s confirmed what we all suspected. BK is clinging on to control, refusing to sell at any cost.

We are run by a load of incompetent amateurs who are strangling this club. Get Kenwright out now.

ItÂ’s depressing. WeÂ’re becoming an irrelevance. Not only in English football but also in our own city. Apparently even Sunderland are getting more viewing figures now than us.

Patrick Murphy
2 Posted 21/04/2015 at 21:59:52
Ross - Nothing but a ridiculous amount of money will oust the current board / owner and with the TV money all they have to do is keep things ticking over with minimum effort. Given that Lerner got his fingers burnt and others have tried and failed to break the cartel, there is little prospect of things improving without a super rich tycoon getting on board, but Bill doesnÂ’t seem to want that... and we are stuck.

The manager of Everton is the single most important person at the football club; if he gets things wrong, we are doomed to the bottom half or worse.

Lyndon Lloyd
4 Posted 21/04/2015 at 22:11:33
Unless you open up more shares (thereby diluting those already in existence, which the Board have not shown any willingness to do thus far) or provide assurances for the return of their capital down the road, then any investor in the club is effectively "donating" their money.

Like Patrick says, only a super-rich tycoon could really provide us a route into the top four in the short term and, even then, the rich clubs have been assisted in pulling the rope up behind them with the FFP rules.

Dick Fearon
5 Posted 21/04/2015 at 21:54:38
Thanks, Joe, for your clear assessment of our place in the football hierarchy. You have mentioned several matters that should be addressed. Kenwright should not be allowed to fudge on the question of whether or not we are for sale. What does he really mean when he speaks of investment or Joe’s suggestion that he is merely seeking a donation?

Blue Bill has been allowed enough wriggle room on these questions and even he must see that no-one believes him any more. Surely there must be a respected media outlet with enough integrity and balls to cut through his self-serving waffle.

I am sure that many of us would also query us going through the motions at WHP when right next door at Stanley Park all requirements have already been cleared. My message to Bill is, we demand the truth.

Frank McGregor
6 Posted 21/04/2015 at 22:16:04
To be honest, reading these highlights would lead one to believe that all the right "Buzz Words" are in place like Key Performance Indicators and Business Plan.

Having been involved with these processes, at the end of the day, they donÂ’t really have any value or substance unless one is dealing with cold hard facts.

Sounds to me like the authors have been influenced by North American business practices that, as I mentioned, cover up the facts but make good report reading.

Damian Braithwaite
7 Posted 21/04/2015 at 22:19:32
We are fooked. I heard Kenwright wanted himself in charge of any consortium stupid enough to invest in us – thus scaring off potential suitors.

He needs to be brought to task and explain himself without the veil of smoke screens and stadiums about how he is going to move us forward.

In his stewardship, we have seen clubs like Chelsea and Man City overtake us as bigger clubs. Oh how the mighty have fallen.

Peter Laing
8 Posted 21/04/2015 at 22:25:21
I said it on a thread last week, Kenwright is living the dream. His association with Everton guarantees that he can stay in the limelight, rub shoulders with richer, more influential folk, and probably bore them to tears every season when they visit Goodison to indulge themselves in their own vanity project with his yarn about the Boys Pen, the Cannonball Kid and lifts to the match from Aigburth on his his uncle CyrilÂ’s handlebars.

The worrying statistic is that we have only grown non-media revenue in the last 10 years by 0.5%. To me, that smacks of gross incompetence at CEO level as by being in the Premier League alone guarantees to TV money. The hard work is securing the additional revenue where, on the evidence to date – including the Kitbag and Chang sponsorship deals – we have failed miserably to compete with our contemporaries of mid-table clubs.

Bobby Thomas
9 Posted 21/04/2015 at 22:28:49
As it stands, the last few years are as good as it gets.

We are a club in terminal, irreversible decline.

The owners donÂ’t want to grow the club so we slip slowly down the wages-paid table, trying to punch above our weight, stretching our money further and further.

No appetite for dissent from the matchgoing fanbase.

What’s happened to Everton?

WhereÂ’s the fight gone?

Why is the club being allowed to gently slide into anonymity, nationally and yes, in the city?

WhatÂ’s the fucking point?

Matt Muzi
10 Posted 21/04/2015 at 22:28:29
My biggest concern has always been our lack of non-media revenue, which is made even more embarrassing by the activities in the sector by our neighbours across the park. IÂ’m glad Mr Beardwood has identified this.

Deals like the Kitbag deal, shirt sponsor & lack of varied corporate sponsors limit us significantly.

I personally donÂ’t think Kenwright will ever sell unless he and the board are made a ridiculous offer, which is never going to happen, especially while weÂ’re in the current stadium.

A new stadium is a priority for me, I feel with a significant number of boxes around the ground. I think it would bring more monies in.

Like many others, I feel we missed a massive opportunity with the Kings Dock, which is hampering us now and has done since we missed it, not only in investment terms, but also match revenues & potential commercial income from other sport and entertainment events. What makes it harder to stomach is that I can never see an opportunity like that coming again.

I have heard that many rumours about a new stadium that I have become apathetic to it all.

Peter Mills
11 Posted 21/04/2015 at 22:13:02
I donÂ’t think our need for a new stadium is about corporate boxes, I think itÂ’s about our survival. There have been many excellent statements and proposals about renovating Goodison, but they would all require the expenditure of money by the Board, which isnÂ’t going to happen. They simply aspire to some sort of commercial development around which a stadium could be developed relatively cheaply.

Meanwhile, the Goodison time-bomb and the continuation of its operating licence is ticking. Whenever a strong wind blows our stadium is at risk. And, with recent theories, the Bradford City fire of 30 years ago could just become another Hillsborough scandal, with timber stands rapidly being come to be seen as death traps and in need of immediate closure.

Bobby Thomas
12 Posted 21/04/2015 at 22:40:57
Ok Frank #6 try this.

Fact is, we are skint, the club hasnÂ’t progressed a jot in terms of infrastructure or generating our own revenue, we have no profile or corporate pull, no fucker watches us and the business plan is......there ainÂ’t one.

In short, it’s the same as it was 5 years ago. Or when Kenwright had his blow up with Gregg. Or as it ever has been.... we are going nowhere.

Patrick Murphy
13 Posted 21/04/2015 at 22:37:30
Frank - I agree that using buzzwords and management speak does not make somebody an authority on any given subject, but I fail to see where any facts are being covered up. It is pretty obvious that the commercial arm of Everton FC is fairly useless, an argument could be made that the corporate side of the club could be improved by moving to a new stadium, however, the funding of it is unclear and we donÂ’t know how long it will saddle the club with increased debt and how many years it might impinge on the playing side.

The most serious problem at Everton is the complete lack of business acumen, we are a lovely family club and do fantastic things in the community – but how much good does that do us when it comes to improving the quality of players? We are trying to compete in the 21st century with a 19th century model, which makes it virtually impossible.

Dave Ganley
14 Posted 21/04/2015 at 22:11:48
Thanks for sharing the key points of this, Joe. It makes for depressing reading.

One of the key points, our lack of non-media (commercial) revenue, it’s not surprising really when we struggle to even advertise ourselves in Liverpool let alone anywhere else. Everywhere you go in the city you see murals, posters and banners hanging from lamp posts of LFC, statues of Gerrard (Liverpool Airport) and the yet see little or no evidence of Everton at all. It’s as though this is a one-club football city, it’s pathetic really. If you canÂ’t sell yourselves in your own city, what chance anywhere else?

Patrick is right, the manager is the most important figure at the football club and at present, he is getting it wrong and – without wishing to sound like a doom and gloom merchant – if we carry on as we are then we are doomed.

Every club the size and stature of our club should have a plan to move ahead and if we donÂ’t have any KPIs then that is indeed very worrying. If we are now being talked about in the same breath as Aston Villa and Newcastle based on their performances in the past 10 years, then all at our club should be concerned. Villa and Newcastle, whilst being big clubs, have been badly run for years and that shows in their season by season results. Newcastle have very occasionally flattered to deceive but in the main woeful really. If we are now measured with these clubs then downwards is obviously the boards way forward.

As for Bill being a wonderful Evertonian, donÂ’t most of us on here consider ourselves in the same vein? I know I do however, I wouldnÂ’t dream of running my football club with little or no funds to propel us forward. Surely if Bill is a wonderful Evertonian then he would be doing his utmost to do the best for the club which would mean selling the club as soon as to someone who has the financial clout (and obviously not to someone who sees football as a cash cow) to do something about our perilous situation... anyone can claim to be a fan but clinging onto power to the detriment of the club is not a wonderful Evertonian to me.

Alas, I donÂ’t have a magic wand to generate the sort of money we need to help us compete for the league again, but surely, given the current situation, we must maximise what we do have. The club must start maximising their potential in the commercial world.

The report stated that LFC are still able to compete for top 4 status due to their substantial commercial success. That has been years in the making while we have stood still, however we must start somewhere so get the commercial staff on it straight away. ThereÂ’s no point just accepting the situation, get out there and start from scratch if need be, Liverpool city is as good a place as any to start.

Without wishing to start a managerial debate, set Roberto KPIs and if he falls short then he has to deal with the consequences. When it suits, football people like to state that football is a business so start acting like it is then. If our club was compared to a business then analysts would shake their head at the shoddy way its run.

Make sure the staff, players and business staff alike do their job. If not then they also must be held accountable. If you donÂ’t maximise your potential then you are going to struggle as we are now. The least the club can do at the moment is make sure that they do all they can to be successful and hopefully Bill will finally see the light and show himself to be a wonderful Evertonian by finally selling the club to someone who can move us forward....but I won’t hold my breath just yet

Mark Rankin
15 Posted 21/04/2015 at 22:56:39
ItÂ’s all relative, I imagine we will make more money than ever with new TV deal, we have decent enough squad and off the pitch loads to be proud of with Everton in the Community.

Problem is, there are a group of clubs in our league with relatively more money and better squads – I’m glad I lived through a time when the boot was on the other foot

Tony Abrahams
16 Posted 21/04/2015 at 22:56:31
24/7 looking for donations, and people go on about demanding the truth?

The truth is, Kenwright is one of us? And itÂ’s enabled him to get away with BLUE murder for years!

Jim Hardin
17 Posted 21/04/2015 at 22:43:34
Not holding my breath for a Sheikh, Russian, or any other investor looking to add a toy. However, looking at what can be fixed versus pipe dreams of a sale of the club, non-media revenue can be altered very quickly to grow at more than the current rate. Start shopping the future kit sponsorship, main sponsor, and a field sponsorship now (even though the kit deal and sponsorship deals may continue for a number of years).

Focus on the major reachable markets such as the USA and India and China. Get someone over here involved in retailing the Everton name and brand. For example, Barcelona are having their coaches tour the USA this summer putting on camps at some of the major soccer clubs and academies. This is directly reaching parents and kids who may become fans. My first contact over here with English football was Burnley traveling and playing a game near Raleigh, NC, over a decade ago and I still follow Burnley as a result.

Where are the retail deals for Everton balls, bags, and jerseys, and t-shirts, hats, etc. in stores such as Soccer Village, DickÂ’s Sporting Goods and other similar stores and websites such as Worldsoccershop.com? Why are their no Everton sponsorships of any sporting event much less soccer games, NCAA college soccer tournaments, or even the premier showcase youth tournaments, or. gasp, even an Everton sponsored tournament or series of them over here where every player on every team gets an Everton bag etc as part of the entry fee?

I am sure I am unaware of many of the rules and prohibitions of certain activities but other clubs have found ways to do these things legally. This is easily fixable and would generate more revenue for the club to put back into wages and transfer fees but nothing is being done. The lack of any coherent plan is nearly criminal and for this BK needs to be held accountable.

Steve Carse
18 Posted 21/04/2015 at 22:50:23
The commercial side of the club has always been a joke, which is why it jumped at the Kitbag and Sodexo deals. Unfortunately by their very nature, these deals do not allow for annual increases or for revenue gain whenever sales improve. Hence one reason for the pathetic 0.5% annual increases in non-media commercial revenues.

I donÂ’t subscribe to the view that we will never achieve a top 4 league position without a massive influx of finance. On a number of occasions in recent years we have arguably been one more good result or good signing away from cracking it. Last season was one such case. Who knows how things would have turned out if Martinez hadnÂ’t suddenly lost his marbles when selecting the team and tactics for the Crystal Palace home game?

And is anyone seriously impressed with the top sides in the PL currently despite all their spending?

Patrick Murphy
19 Posted 21/04/2015 at 23:08:42
Steve - I agree with you that an extra player or another couple of victories may have seen us break that glass ceiling but that also begs the question: How easy would it have been for BK to have held on to his plaything if we had have made it into the CL or won a trophy?

Is it perversely in the best interest of the board if we are nearly men rather than winners?

Bob Paisley once said that LFC were financially better off by finishing runners-up because the players missed out on all kinds of bonuses, he didnÂ’t mean that he wanted to finish second but it does make you think sometimes.

Bobby Thomas
20 Posted 21/04/2015 at 23:29:12
By the way the phrase at the end of the first paragraph of this article, "where the club currently stands in its quest to return to the top of the domestic game", just doesnÂ’t apply.

For example, it would be fair to say Man Utd are on such a quest now. We were in around 1988.

We are currently on no such thing. Our board’s aim is to do FUCK ALL other than remain in the division. Grow and progress the club? No chance.

I was reading an article on the Telegraph website before, about Moyes being sacked by Man Utd a year ago today. In the comments, a United fan mentioned that mediocrity is not only accepted at Goodison, itÂ’s celebrated.

As much as I disliked it, that person was right.

Steve Cotton
21 Posted 21/04/2015 at 23:36:35
Ask yourself this:

If you were a 10-year-old boy, all your mates supported LFC and all you ever saw on the TV and in the press was LFC, would you want to be an Evertonian?

You see your team going out of the cups early every year, struggling to even get shots on target each week, struggle to get a team shirt until a month into the season. You see every other pundit is an ex-red who sing RED praise all the time.

Would you want to be a Blue?

Probably not... and without the next generation, we will start to fade from view...

Colin Glassar
22 Posted 21/04/2015 at 23:40:52
Bobby, or when a Spurs fan says, "Sorry to see Lennon leave, but at Everton heÂ’s playing for a club at his level"! Jesus H Christ, even Spurs fans can look down at us and snigger because the cretins in charge have run us into the ground.

No wonder slimy Bill has disappeared, he mustÂ’ve known this report was coming out.

Derek Thomas
23 Posted 21/04/2015 at 23:19:23
Short version: the Kings Dock shouldÂ’ve been enough to tar and feather Boys Pen Billy and ride him out on a rail.

0.5% isnÂ’t even keeping up with inflation. Joe has said what many of us have suspected for years.

At the time of DK, I was adamant that, however good it looked in the glossy presentation – and it did... as an ’Artist’s Impression’ – it was not what we needed, especially in Kirkby (no offence, let’s not get into all that again). The more the detail came out and the terminological inexactitudes mounted, whatever the question was, DK was not the answer – however glossy the brochure.

Unless we could fund and build a stadium next door – and by next door, I mean over the road from the Park End – the only way was a phased redevelopment. Through Tom Hughes and others MOST of us know (or admit) it is do-able.

The Â’SkyÂ’ money is an almost fixed income. The way to maximise that fixed income is to do better on the field, which is somewhat, especially this season in the lap of the footballing gods.

Then there is the commercial side. Again, most of us can see (well think we see) that it could be run better. This is one thing you can effect, but even this variable is affected by how well you do on the pitch.

We need men of vision at the top to push ahead with a double phased redevelopment, first on the pitch, then as that (hopefully) takes effect, it will Increase the Â’fixedÂ’ sky money, it will allow a dynamic marketing and commercial side (you can hope) to reap the rewards. Then progress with the ground.

I said during DK that, if the team were doing well, the executive box candidates would crawl over broken glass to join the band wagon.

It might take 10, 15, 20 years all a bit ’Slow Motion’. But if these ’Men of Vision (à la 1892) don’t get in the driving seat then all we are and all we will ever be is...LEEDS IN SLOW MOTION.

[End of rant.]

Kevin Tully
24 Posted 21/04/2015 at 23:52:03
You can be sure of one thing. There will be a long and well thought out rebuttal to this piece published by the club. If not tomorrow, it will be within the next couple of days.

"This club has been for sale from day one. The chairman is searching.....blah blah blah." There will be mention of how the debt has been brought under control (thanks to TV money) and the Â’plansÂ’ for a new ground will be put forward as an indication of how forward thinking the board really are. The Echo will agree that the club is being prudently ran, and there is nothing to see here. Anyone like to play Â’bill bingoÂ’ when itÂ’s published?

Investment.
Interested parties.
Full houses.
Walton Hall Park
Partnership with Council.
Record turnover.
Record season ticket sales.

Patrick Murphy
25 Posted 22/04/2015 at 00:06:27
Kevin,

I think theyÂ’ll do what they usually do and that is to ignore it, if they donÂ’t acknowledge it, then it doesnÂ’t exist, therefore there are no issues to address.

Roberto, you had better be the right guy because thereÂ’s an awful lot riding on your shoulders. Looks like everything is down to the fans and the team, as usual...

Perhaps next season, regardless of our own views on the team and the manager we should give them 100% backing, go nuts for a season and see where it takes us. If it fails well at least they had our full support and we can go back to being comfortably numb.

John Daley
26 Posted 22/04/2015 at 00:10:29
"Focus on the major reachable markets such as the USA and India and China. Get someone over here involved in retailing the Everton name and brand"

Thing is, when it comes to football, selling the Â’brandÂ’ and being a visible presence has no tangible effect on cracking certain core markets and itÂ’s pure pie in the sky to think otherwise. The Asian target audience in particular are only interested in being associated with success and switch allegiances like flies searching for freshly squelched dog shit on a swelteringly hot summer day.

When I say Â’successÂ’, itÂ’s not purely a matter of winning trophies over there either. Simply supporting the richest club is the norm. My brother-in-law and his mates (Chinese) all went from Â’supportingÂ’ Man Utd, to Chelsea, to Man City in about five years in an attempt to Â’follow the moneyÂ’.

Every time I go over there, whoever is doing best at that moment in time is the most popular team and anyone who no longer has a sniff of winning something is only brought into the equation for betting purposes.

Until Everton start totting up trophies, or are taken over by some brain damaged billionaire with Â’gullibleÂ’ branded on his gonads, then theyÂ’ll never be perceived as anything more than another inconsequential English team, notable only for slumming it with the name of Thailands version of tramp juice splashed across their jersey.

James Marshall
27 Posted 22/04/2015 at 00:16:06
John makes a good point about the Asian markets. IÂ’ve spent a lot of time in Thailand and nobody there follows Everton. Not a soul.

ItÂ’s all RS, Man Utd and Chelsea and mainly the former two. Thais ask me who I support and then laugh when I tell them. WeÂ’re even a laughing stock in far away lands.

ItÂ’s true they follow the money and follow the successful teams, of which we are neither now and unlikely to ever be again at least in my lifetime.

Rightly or wrongly, I gave up hope of seeing Everton at the top again years ago.

Ross Edwards
28 Posted 22/04/2015 at 00:25:43
Kevin, you can almost guarantee that over the next few days the Echo will be printing articles by ex players like Snodin telling us how great BK is and how much of a fan he is, youÂ’ll have Martinez roped into it no doubt probably with an Â’exclusiveÂ’ interview with Prentice talking about how wonderful he is to work with and how much he cares etc.

As you rightly point out, theyÂ’ll be preparing the counter propaganda as we speak.

Ross Edwards
29 Posted 22/04/2015 at 00:29:32
Steve, IÂ’d say we are fading from view already. WeÂ’re becoming an irrelevance. Sunderland have got more viewing figures than us. That means more people would rather watch Sunderland get thrashed every week than watch us.
Andy Crooks
30 Posted 22/04/2015 at 00:17:42
John, that is a pretty disturbing post that addresses fundamentally what being a supporter is about. ItÂ’s worth an article which I hope you could find the time to put up.

I have no doubt that Everton is not for sale. I imagine that Bill is financially okay. In that, unlike many of us, finances do not keep him awake too often.

So, he sells the club for, say, a hundred million. He thinks "what would I like more than anything in the world?" IÂ’d like to own my club. IÂ’d like to own Everton...shit, I do, and I got it cheap."
Donors are what he wants. People who will buy into his dream quite literally, and let him take it to a new level.

Bill Kenwright must go but he has to go without knowing heÂ’s going.

Damian Braithwaite
31 Posted 22/04/2015 at 01:52:49
Bill Kenwright is to us what Peter Swales was to Man City, a club similar to us as they have always lived under a shadow of a more successful neighbour. However, they had the balls to get rid of him although it was very personal at the time and they took a massive nosedive for five seasons but rose from the ashes. I wonder what would happen to us if Kenwright was ousted.

Is there light at the end of the tunnel? IÂ’m not a defeatist by any means but the club might need to be rebuilt from top to bottom. The question is: Can we get rid of our chairman without it damaging us further? And who could take the job on of getting us back up there?

Mark Andersson
32 Posted 22/04/2015 at 01:49:41
Well, that is a depressing start to my day. The reality is we dream of future glories, and thatÂ’s all it will ever be a dream.

I wrote a conspiracy theory a few months back about the RS really being behind the appointment of Martinez. Of course it was tongue-in-cheek. However, the fact is there is now only room for one big club in this city... and that – whether you like it or not – is Liverpool FC.

I always look at both the crowds of Goodison and Anfield and you can clearly see there are more young faces at Goodison.

Scousers by nature are fighters of the underdog. So we will always have good support. The worrying thing is if the powers that be are happy being mediocre then really we can all but be sheep-like.

I witnessed the glory years of the 80s at the age of 27. My son now in his early 30s will be lucky if he or his son aged 5 will ever witness or feel the pride of being a fan of the champions. ThatÂ’s sad.

Eric Myles
33 Posted 22/04/2015 at 02:27:55
The significant part of the post for me is:

"The challenge for clubs like Everton, Aston Villa and Newcastle is to resist demands of supporters to risk the long-term investment in the infrastructure of the club by allowing wages to go above 70% of operating costs."

Then he contradicts himself sort of with: Given EvertonÂ’s lack of corporate pull, the club donÂ’t need a new stadium.

So, if we donÂ’t need a new stadium, the money is better spent on improving the team to gain success and points the way to redeveloping what we have piecemeal to acommodate future success.

James (#27), you havenÂ’t spent enough time here yet then:
http://Evertonthailand.com/
https://www.facebook.com/Everton.Thailand

There were plenty of Everton supporting Thais at the July friendly in Bangkok and many of them will be there in Singapore this year.

Rick Tarleton
34 Posted 22/04/2015 at 06:19:35
Everton donÂ’t need a new stadium, they donÂ’t need to put their future at risk by spending on class players and their wages. What they need is Bill "BoysÂ’ Pen Kenwright in charge. Wow!
Tony I'Anson
35 Posted 22/04/2015 at 06:20:35
Frank #6. I was there. The first thing Joe said was that he was keeping opinion and emotion out of the talk, and just dealing with cold hard facts from the last 20 odd years.

He invited the audience at the beginning to pull him up if he started to give his opinion.

I thought Joes report was brilliant, if not depressing, and reports filtering through only scratch the surface of what he said purely based on statistical evidence.

Peter McHugh
36 Posted 22/04/2015 at 06:36:10
You canÂ’t just crack American and Asian markets. You need a brand to sell. We donÂ’t have one and canÂ’t just switch a tap on.

We must be successful on the pitch before anything changes on the commercial side.

Tony I'Anson
37 Posted 22/04/2015 at 06:27:30
Ross #28, Joe was quite complimentary about Bill (being a fan etc) as well as Lerner and Ashley, the latter 2 who he showed with the numbers Â’had a goÂ’ with millions of their own money.

Then made the point about fans turning on them when they fell away once they could not keep up with wage levels to reflect the final position in the table.

Steve Hogan
38 Posted 22/04/2015 at 06:49:46
The report highlites what many of us have known for years,

More alarmingly, the lack of real investment on the playing field will come back and bite us in the bum one day soon.

We have flirted with relegation a number of times over the last 20 years, at some stage in the future, the inevitable will happen, all it will take is one poor set of results post Xmas, and the team in a downward spiral.

Paul Lambert would have seen Villa relegated this season, the same could easily happen to Everton, as we have seen this season.

Maybe that would be the catalyst to finally get rid of the charlatan in charge?

Plato Stavrinos
39 Posted 22/04/2015 at 07:52:50
I am from South Africa and you can’t get bigger than Man Utd and Liverpool here but I am ashamed and embarrassed every time I walk into a sports shop and ask for any merchandise for Everton – people start laughing at me. You can buy Chelsea, Arsenal and Man City stuff even Newcastle and Spurs but never Everton.

There is a reasonable amount of Everton supporters here but the only way to get merchandise is online from the UK. I know SA is not a huge market but to have lessor teams like Man city and Chelsea overtake us in such a short time is frustrating. When you tell people we are the 4th most successful club in terms of league titles, they are very surprised. Surely a better international marketing programme can be put into place.

Colin Glassar
40 Posted 22/04/2015 at 08:11:07
Expect BKÂ’s well oiled PR machine to go into overdrive in the next few days. This story wonÂ’t even make it into the national media and it will all be forgotten about in a few days.
Chris Matheson
41 Posted 22/04/2015 at 08:44:05
It is now 20 years since we last won a trophy. Most of that time BK was on the Board and indeed has been Chairman. Success now is finishing 5th or 6th. Under his tenure, there has been a failed ground move (well two actually, but I was happy DK went under...) and a failed redevelopment at the Park End when it transpired we no longer owned the freehold and were not allowed to build there.

Yet whenever supporters protest, we are derided and called ’Kopites’. 20 years without a trophy. Probably the longest spell of failure in EvertonÂ’s increasingly un-illustrious history.

I am not sure which is worse: the 20 years of failure or the meek acceptance of it by so many blues.

Tom R Owen
42 Posted 22/04/2015 at 08:45:02
Our club is run by a second rate actor who runs a second theatre company and he has in turn made Everton a second rate club.
Lee Brian
43 Posted 22/04/2015 at 08:26:15
I went last night. I have to say I came away totally depressed! These are the main points that really brought it home to me how far we have fallen.

1) No business plan going forward – we haven’t had one for the last 15 years, we missed the boat years ago.

2) We are not a corporate club – ie, no big companies are interested in sponsoring us.

3) No need for a new stadium – the figures just don’t make sense.

4) Our "non-media earnings" have grown 0.5% per year over the last 10 years (the Red Shite’s have grown 8% per year)?

5) The gap between the "top 5" and the rest of us is getting so vast that it’s becoming impossible to bridge.

6) One of the bright spots to come from last night was how well we have done over the last 10 years in relation to our wage bill, ie, we have finished much higher than we should have done bearing in mind we are 10th on the Premier League wage bill table. (Moyes deserves all the credit for that.)

Oh well – COYB

John Raftery
44 Posted 22/04/2015 at 08:53:50
The article says we do not have a corporate pull, therefore we do not need a new stadium. Surely we need a new stadium in order to gain a corporate pull. Without a corporate pull, we will always struggle to grow the commercial and sponsorship income.
Jason Lam
45 Posted 22/04/2015 at 08:43:29
The way I see it: wealth is not just measured in monetary terms. It can be a combination of other important factors such as love, happiness, health. If I were offered millions or ownership of Everton Football Club, I would choose the latter. If I had the millions, I would buy Everton Football Club (but itÂ’s not for sale okay).

Maybe Blue Bill is already living his dream. HeÂ’s content with his life. He loves the limelight being Everton Chairman. He can invite his mates over to the best seats in the house. He has no further ambition in life greater than owning Everton Football Club. It doesnÂ’t get any better than this.

There is no urgency on his behalf to win the Premier League. Or any cup for that matter. It would be nice and heÂ’ll have another story to tell.

KPIs and Business Plans are worthless as Blue Bill is only accountable to one entity: himself.

The only chance for change is a paradigm shift in KenwrightÂ’s mindset, his fundamental perspective in life. That would cause him to suffer such realization that there are things even more important and urgent in life than Everton Football Club, in so much that he would voluntarily sell his entire kingdom up and pursue the other piece of land which contains this greater treasure.

The only hope we have is an asteroid straying off course and smashing into his life to change its course.

Eddie Dunn
46 Posted 22/04/2015 at 08:53:20
There exists a ruling elite of European clubs, taking the cash in the Champions League and dominating their own leagues. It is a chicken-and-egg situation. The only way we can gatecrash this party is by investing in the best players and running a bigger squad. It is a risk, and we could go the way of Portsmouth and Leeds, but that is business.
Kenwright has kept us stable, and improved our lot, but who knows what financial constraints exist? I donÂ’t want some foreign Oligarch changing my club into a bloated caricature like Man City or Chelsea. I do want a board with ideas and plans though, and if we are to break through that "Glass Ceiling", it will only be by getting a bigger, better squad, and a good manager.

We lost the FA Cup final against Chelsea because we were missing players, we failed to grasp 4th last season, possibly due to lack of quality in the depth of the squad. Once you get into the top four, you have to invest again to get to the knockout stages of the Champions League. It requires regular investment, but it has to be sustainable or everything can go tits-up.

The stadium can be sorted out later, and as for the millions of Asians wearing club shirts, how many of these shirts is fake?

Perhaps Martinez had the most sense this season, realising that the Europa League was our secret passage to the land of the giants. If had worked, it would have been our way in, and we could have really pushed on. Now we have to go for the top 4 again, but know that another lilt at the Europa is 2 years is our best hope of getting into the Euro elite.

In 10 years, I think the format will have changed and the elite will be playing in a Euro league and putting their B teams in the domestic leagues. Then us Spurs, and Newcastle might win the Premeir League.

Chris Matheson
47 Posted 22/04/2015 at 09:24:45
Eddie, if the format does change as you suggest, with the rich elite playing in a Euro League, then I hope we can tell them where to go – they play in a Euro League or they play in the domestic, but not both.
Tony Draper
48 Posted 22/04/2015 at 09:51:06
I have already posted two other lists on the "Sleeping Giant" thread, but here is a very condensed sample of Premier League Clubs debt and their commercial revenue (non media). Included are clubs of similar size to Everton, plus a couple of others to illustrate the degrees of difference.

Commercial
Club Debt Revenue

Swansea 1 Zero 16 ٦.8M

Tottenham 1 Zero 6 㿖M

Everton 6 㿈m 11 㾸.7M

Stoke 7 㿈m 9 㾺M

Sunderland 8 㿓m 10 㾹M

Aston Villa 13 𧴠m 6 㿋.4M

West Ham 14 𧴦m 8 㿀M

Liverpool 16 𧴷m 5 𧴟.8M

Newcastle 17 𧴹m ? Not Known

Brian Harrison
49 Posted 22/04/2015 at 10:24:01
As the original poster said, the richest clubs fill the Champions League places, and this has always been the case. There is only the media money keeping us afloat, as our non-media money is virtually non-existent.

When Sir John Moores died, so did the club; he was our Abramovich... now, sadly we are run by a pauper of a Chairman and others who have very little interest in the club. Unlike our neighbours, we sadly donÂ’t have a worldwide fanbase.

I largely blame Catterick for this, he had all the money in the world to spend on players yet never managed to win the European Cup as it was called then. Yet our neighbours are nearing 25 years without winning the league, but it’s their history in the European Cup that has created the interest worldwide. Their commercial side helps them still compete for some of the best players available.

So what is the future for Everton? Well that now largely depends on how good the manager is, not only with his tactics to win games but the ability to spot a player who can be sold for much gold in a couple of years to help keep the club in the top flight.

Sadly I don’t think RM is capable of either so our existence in the top flight may well be challenged in the next year or so. While he had some detractors, David Moyes bought and sold very well and also kept us competitive in the league.

Joe Foster
50 Posted 22/04/2015 at 10:46:47
Yep thatÂ’s me depressed more than usual for the rest of the day.
Dave Lynch
51 Posted 22/04/2015 at 10:42:28
The only way Bill will even consider selling is if there is a mass rally of fans screaming for his head.

The support buys into the shite of the PR at Goodison, you know, the posters stating Â’We are chosenÂ’, Â’We go the game.....Â’ If we’re not careful, there will be no fans to go the game in 20 years or so as they will all be following the money clubs.

BK, like all deluded sycophants, thrives on adoration; take that away and they canÂ’t cope with the negativity and criticism leveled at them.

Kevin Tully
52 Posted 22/04/2015 at 11:18:10
Dave, I think a lot of BillÂ’s critics donÂ’t understand his motivation. He is an actor, a luvvie who wants to be idolised more than anything else.

How else can an old, washed up actor find fame and fortune and cling on to it? He’s mixing with the new movie stars of today – Premier League footballers. He’s daily news and he knows it. Nobody would know who the fuck Bill was outside of the theatre world if he wasn’t chairman of EFC. He isn’t going anywhere.

I would guess itÂ’s probably the fame, rather than the fortune that motivates him to keep control of the club. HeÂ’s even surrounded himself with major shareholders who have no intention of ousting him, a great bit of foresight on his behalf. All this has been achieved by a man who didnÂ’t have the funds to be in the game in the first place. I wouldnÂ’t underestimate his capacity to carry on for another 15 years.

Andy Codling
53 Posted 22/04/2015 at 12:13:48
"Focus on the major reachable markets such as the USA and India and China. Get someone over here involved in retailing the Everton name and brand."

I live in Thailand and it’s true that they flit from team to team and whoever is winning things but, even so, there is no retail market here. Thais are not going to go out and spend money on a shirt from an official store when the can get a copy for around 200 bhat, Barcelona and Man United have stores here and I am yet to see anyone other than a Farang inside them.

James Flynn
54 Posted 22/04/2015 at 12:14:51
Kevin (52) really hits on it. Owning a big league club makes you a star. Supporter opinion will vary with the clubÂ’s fortune, of course. But, in general, youÂ’re someone special. The press courts you on a level larger, by orders of magnitude, beyond the musical theatre press.

YouÂ’re a SOMEONE and no doubt about it.

I agree with othersÂ’ comments over the years regarding Kenwright selling up. If EFC stays in the Prem, the ONLY way heÂ’ll leave his office is in a pine box. No other.

Now, if Roberto canÂ’t cover up ownership deficiencies the way Moyes did, I certainly can see his partners selling up for their own interests. But, if Roberto (or whoever) even keeps us mid-table, I only see the pine box option for a change of ownership.

Paul Andrews
55 Posted 22/04/2015 at 12:58:34
"ROLL UP, ROLL UP. Keep coming back for more, suckers!"
Tony J Williams
56 Posted 22/04/2015 at 13:09:10
Every time this subject comes up I get confused.

Does Kenwright have the final say in whether or not the club is sold?

Does he own enough shares to be the sole voice in agreeing a deal?

I have always thought, just like his acting career, that he is a bit player but trying his best to be a main character.

Peter Laing
57 Posted 22/04/2015 at 13:11:11
Tony, make no mistake, heÂ’s the main character. The other directors are his side kick Jon Woods, who has contributed the square route of fuck all, and Robert Earl who hasnÂ’t been to a game in over 5 years and operates from the mysterious tax haven of the BVI.
Tom Bowers
58 Posted 22/04/2015 at 13:17:59
Yes, it is just a business with a duty to its shareholders to not lose money at the very least.

Football success comes as a bonus and the fans who personally attend donÂ’t really factor in the equation unless they spend big money on all the promotions.

Most of the revenue comes from worldwide television. I believe that is why BK will not allow cheap short-term investment or a cheap sale unless he forced.

Bill Gall
59 Posted 22/04/2015 at 13:18:55
Tony (#56),

There have been numerous comments on BK and the board about their share holdings. BK is the largest individual share holder with over 9,000 shares and this is what gives him control of the club.

Robert Earl is next, who has no interest in the club, followed by BKÂ’s puppet Woods. With this set-up, unless someone can persuade Earl and Woods to sell him their shares, BK will remain in control as it is highly unlikely he will sell his.

Thomas Lennon
60 Posted 22/04/2015 at 13:38:44
A quick glance at the accounts from last season (so effective 2013-May 2014) gives us the following:

"The Club’s sponsorship, advertising and merchandising revenue also increased from ٥.6m in 2013 to ٦.4m in 2014, boosted by the long-term support of key partners such as Chang and Kitbag."

This is non-media revenue, it went up 10.5% over the last 12 months.

This doesnÂ’t align with the figure given by OP 0.5% a year for the last 10 years, does it?

James Marshall
61 Posted 22/04/2015 at 13:46:23
Eric@33

Thanks for that - IÂ’ve spent a lot of time in Thailand as I said, and only ever saw two people wearing Everton shirts. One was an old scouse guy in his 80s whoÂ’s been living in BKK for years, and the other was a homeless guy.

There is clearly some support, as proven by your links, but our exposure over there is pitiful. Even Leicester City have a store in one of the BTS stations in Bangkok.

IÂ’ve only ever spotted one concession in a store inside a mall, which consisted of two racks of EFC bits & bobs, most of which were available half-price as they couldnÂ’t sell them. When I asked about stock, they said theyÂ’d had them delivered in December, and by March had only sold about a quarter of the shirts, hence the half-price deals.

We don’t push ourselves in overseas markets at all, and EFC as a whole is run like a tin-pot amateur outfit, we have children announcing the players at games which is embarrassing, the fanzone thing is a joke outside GP – we’re this self-styled People’s Club who does great things in the community, which is all well & good but we still promote ourselves with a small-club mentality and zero world view.

I want to know what our marketing department, and CEOs have been doing for the last 10 years to see 0.5% growth in our non-media revenue!?! This is all part of creating a club that’s seen as important and successful, and reflects back on the way the team performs on the pitch – it cannot be underestimated.

WeÂ’re not a big name because we donÂ’t even try to be. Sitting on our hands while the rich promote themselves with arrogance and self-confidence. Plucky little Everton. Bill revels in this title, IÂ’m sure of it.

Everton will always be a potless, half-arsed club the way it’s run these days and nothing will change. Delusions of grandeur running through our veins, it’s sickening. If we (the club) want to be big, then they have to think big and act big – we all know they don’t really want to though.

Fuck Kenwright, fuck the board. We’re going nowhere and even us as Evertonians have become accustomed to it all – even if we do vent on here. I love my club, but see a small future with small men at the helm.

Eric Myles
62 Posted 22/04/2015 at 14:17:30
John (#44), I think on-field success will generate the corporate demand and increased incomes.

James (#61), with the recent purchases of Reading and Sheffield Wednesday by Thai consortia, I expect they will both grow support and exposure greater than ours over here.

Steavey Buckley
63 Posted 22/04/2015 at 15:11:37
The following statement form the Shareholders Forum is an insult, which shows such an unprofessional statement has little to do with any marketing experience and business knowledge:

"Given EvertonÂ’s lack of corporate pull, the club donÂ’t need a new stadium; Everton are not a corporate club and new stadiums are all about executive boxes. Everton donÂ’t need a new stadium."

Patrick Murphy
64 Posted 22/04/2015 at 15:27:52
Steavey,

I read it as any new stadium wonÂ’t necessarily increase our corporate income. IÂ’m not sure that he meant a new stadium wasnÂ’t required at all.

James Flynn
65 Posted 22/04/2015 at 14:06:27
Why is Woods considered KenwrightÂ’s "sidekick" or "puppet"? I donÂ’t get that. HeÂ’s as much a life-long Evertonian as old Bill, isnÂ’t he? Unlike Bill, didnÂ’t Woods have the cash to buy his shares outright? I canÂ’t see where this makes him a puppet. Not at all.

That he leaves Bill as the public face of the Club and Chairman is more down to Bill being good at it and wanting the Chairmanship rather than Woods being some yes-man. The guy was a business success on his own on a much larger scale than Kenwright ever was or will be. HeÂ’s certainly no puppet.

Earl bought out the Greggs, yes? How he pulls money out of his BVI investment, I havenÂ’t the faintest. But, given his world-wide investments in the gaming and restaurant businesses, Everton holdings must make up only a small part of his monies. IÂ’d imagine he has zero interest in running things, as long as heÂ’s getting a steady return.

Which leaves our Bill as the only one who HAD to borrow to get his shares. IÂ’m assuming here that the shares are the collateral securing the loan. Is this accurate?

So, I believe Bill is the "voice" of the Club because Woods has no interest in that sort of thing and Earl couldnÂ’t give a shit as long as heÂ’s making his wedge, not because Bill "owns" more shares than either of them. LetÂ’s say, God forbid, the worst happened and we slid down the Table to the danger zone.

WouldnÂ’t Kenwright be the owner in the most tenuous financial situation? I canÂ’t see where Earl or Woods would be. It appears they own their shares outright, whatever banking vehicle they used for purchase. Whereas Bill is leveraged up to his eyeballs.

Patrick Murphy
66 Posted 22/04/2015 at 15:35:12
Kevin (24) I expected the Echo to ignore the statement, but I never expected them to do so with so much ’vigour’ – today’s live blog carries last night’s events as they happened and that’s it – no analysis either for or against and very little news on anything else Everton related. I wonder if the club have put in one of those famous injunctions?
Kevin Tully
67 Posted 22/04/2015 at 15:50:11
I would love to have been a fly on the wall as the Echo offices received Â’the callÂ’ this morning, Patrick.

Imagine if Bill was the American chairman of EFC? The Echo, and half of Merseyside would have ran him & Earl out of town years ago.

Sometimes, people donÂ’t see the irony in the statement Â’ be careful what you wish for.Â’

We have been hampered by Â’be careful what you wish forÂ’ owners since Bill & chums have been calling the shots.

Michael Kenrick
68 Posted 22/04/2015 at 16:12:11
Jimmy Flynn (#65),

I think we tend to view Woods merely as BillÂ’s sidekick because that is his public persona – he sits next to Kenwright at the games and is there by his side on the Board (that ’never’ meets), but plays no public role beyond this, and never so much as rocks the boat.

Yes, I understand he is a self-made man, but that does not mean he wants to be Donald Trump. HeÂ’s had this role for many many years, and seems happy to Â’buy inÂ’ to BillÂ’s way of running the club.

"Puppet" is probably off the mark though; as you suggest, if he wanted to sell his shares at some point, IÂ’m sure he could and would... but probably, like Bill, heÂ’s quite happy with things just the way they are.

If you look at what Woods paid for the shares, against what they are potentially worth at some point in the future when they (or the club) are sold on, IÂ’m sure the increase in book value year on year probably makes quite nice bedtime reading.

Paul Andrews
69 Posted 22/04/2015 at 16:38:26
Michael @ 68.

And that is the scenario in a nutshell.

Tom R Owen
70 Posted 22/04/2015 at 16:37:07
I have commented numerous times about BK. When things are running smoothly, he is in the forefront... and vice versa when the shit starts to fly.

I am still amazed by people who say he is the right man to run EFC. Last night hopefully proved – even to the most loyal Kenwright fan – the guy is NEVER going to sell the train set and we are run as a second-rate business

Vote with your wallets and don’t renew ticket subscriptions – particularly when the "I am looking for a buyer" story appears in May!

Dave Abrahams
71 Posted 22/04/2015 at 16:49:11
Michael referring to Jon Woods as a puppet maybe refers to the fact that he never speaks, same as a puppet.

I was arguing with Kenwright, the only time I have been in KenwrightÂ’s company, he (Billy Boy) has that superior attitude, thinks heÂ’s above you, so IÂ’m giving him plenty back, WoodÂ’s is giving me daggers but never opened his mouth, really donÂ’t know if he can speak, or if he knows anything about football.

Roger Helm
72 Posted 22/04/2015 at 16:41:27
It’s not all about money but about overall management of the club. I watched Southampton win the U-21 trophy last night. The commentator said that 5 years ago they started a 5-year plan to achieve top-6 status with half the team coming from their academy. So far, so good – their next 5 year plan is regular European football, again with locally-developed players.

They have a worldwide Moneyball-type statistics operation going on to replace any leaving player, or manager, with a better version. It seems to have worked well for them this year.

I understand their academy is one of the best in the country. So, short of an Abramovich suddenly appearing (who would be hamstrung anyway by FFP rules), or a SAF, what we need more than anything is a good, or even competent, CEO and management team.

Ray Said
73 Posted 22/04/2015 at 17:27:06
Roger (72) good points – brains and planning can compete with money
Dave Williams
74 Posted 22/04/2015 at 17:50:45
What a load of absolute dross! We donÂ’t pull in the big corporate stuff at the moment because we have poor facilities so they spend their money elsewhere. Anyone who has enjoyed corporate hospitality knows that the venue is all-important.

If facilities and/or the product to be viewed are not top class then the important business contacts will be unimpressed by the invite which is precisely the opposite of what the corporate is hoping to achieve. A new stadium with good purpose-built corporate facilities will be easy for a decent marketing director to sell-out.

Anthony Hughes
75 Posted 22/04/2015 at 17:59:23
I agree, Dave, as much as we all love Goodison, itÂ’s a dated, run-down shithole in a (no disrespect to Walton as I did live a large chunk of my life there) run down area of Liverpool.
James Marshall
76 Posted 22/04/2015 at 18:08:08
Absolutely, Dave – as much as we all love the Old Lady, Goodison Park is a shit hole. It’s a crappy old stadium from top to bottom in truth – the entire club needs to modernise, and that includes the stadium.

Everton is still run like it was 100 years ago. Amateurs.

Dave Williams
77 Posted 22/04/2015 at 18:00:03
Brian (#49),

I donÂ’t think it stems from Catterick. In the mid-eighties we had the best team in Europe and the money we had made was wasted on overpriced substandard players like Cottee and Nevin whilst no thought was given to improving the stadium or expanding overseas marketing at a time when we were the best team.

The crucial point was HK moving to Spain when he was operating at his peak. Had the board made more effort, he might have stayed on and our decline would probably not have happened. It is not possible to successfully market a poor brand which sad to say we are outside of Merseyside and will continue to be until we become successful again.

People follow success and if we can develop a young, vibrant and exciting team then we will have a shot at it. We have to give youth a chance without ditching all of our experienced players at once as we cannot compete at buying success. Bill hasnÂ’t got the funds to do this but at least he will never asset-strip and sell all the players like Leeds and Pompey did.

I well recall the Johnson days and he was starting that process when Bill stepped forward (and remember there was no-one else!!). We now require to move forward again but it is no good blaming the guy who saved us last time just because he hasn’t the means to do something more. There just isn’t the desire out there at the moment to buy a Premier League club and if anyone wonders why, they should read the excellent book by Simon Jordan about his days as owner of Crystal Palace – quite why anyone would subject themselves to the greed and dishonesty of the football world and commit their hard-earned cash to it is beyond me.

The increased TV revenue is giving us the chance to reduce debt to a point where maybe we could have a downpayment on a new stadium but that means we cannot blow it all on players and their increasing salaries. Tricky times!!

Colin Glassar
78 Posted 22/04/2015 at 18:09:35
All very sad and depressing. I think most of us agree that while Billy Liar is running the club we are going nowhere fast. If I could only win the euro millions IÂ’d buy that fat fuck out and sell at a loss, if need be, just to get someone in with an iota of ambition.

Andy Codling (#53), whatÂ’s a farang? Is that like a lady boy?

Tom R Owen
79 Posted 22/04/2015 at 18:24:55
Dave 77,

The catalyst for all this stems from Heysel. All English teams were banned and Everton missed out and Kendall left.

Patrick Murphy
80 Posted 22/04/2015 at 18:20:23
IÂ’m not sure that BK saved us, what did he save us from? Peter Johnson would have found a buyer if Bill hadnÂ’t have come along, more likely that Bill is an opportunist and fair play to him he took full advantage of the situation. The debt reduction thing is an interesting point, because IÂ’m not sure where that debt arose from - although some have said that it is due to the fact that Bill didnÂ’t have the funds to buy the club and that is partly the reason for having such a debt.

Everton FC didnÂ’t seem to need to be in debt for such a high amount at the time and we have certainly paid a lot of interest on it over the last decade or so, money which could have been put aside for development of the ground or a down payment for a new stadium has been wasted on interest payments.

Ad hoc management decisions over the last 15 years have seen us spurn some good opportunities and severely limited the progress of the club, we are in a maze of our own making and it would seem that every turn leads to a dead end.

.

Patrick Murphy
81 Posted 22/04/2015 at 18:41:02
I donÂ’t think there is anything different in this report from the Echo, but it has a nice headline.

Arsenal of the North

Chris Feeley
82 Posted 22/04/2015 at 18:28:23
All this Bill Kenwright talk made me think about the interview he did in 2011 with members of the Blue Union. In hindsight some of things he was proved correct in saying, but many of his answers come across as waffle and nonsense, and the one statement that stuck in my head was this:

"My doctor won't let me be in charge in 5 years, you should be so lucky. I'll be seventy and I don't want to be there."

What a sad indictment it is that we are now 4 years down the line and nothing has changed for the better. HereÂ’s hoping that his doctor, unlike the patient, sticks to his word. I am not hopeful.

http://www.sos1878.co.uk/Everton-fans/blue-union-bill-kenwright-transcript/

Dave Williams
83 Posted 22/04/2015 at 18:42:39
Johnson had already started to sell players to keep the bank at bay and from what I recall Patrick no-one else was in the market to buy the club. What did Bill save us from? – Johnson kept his control of Tranmere I think and look where they are now.
Helen Mallon
84 Posted 22/04/2015 at 17:56:30
All this means is the fans need to start giving Kenwright shit at every game. DonÂ’t go the game or walk outs anything to make him see that we are fed up and want progress. But alas I believe most Evertonians like him and would not say a word against him.
Clive Rogers
85 Posted 22/04/2015 at 18:39:01
Brian (#49)

In actual fact, Moores never gave Everton a penny. His input was limited to interest-free loans to bridge gaps when funds werenÂ’t available and which were later paid back to him. He was however a brilliant businessman who ran EFC as a business and the club generally was in profit and remained a top six club.

Therein lies the problem. Kenwright is an artistic type who has no business acumen whatsoever. Football is a cut throat business and it is dog eat dog. The club has been in decline ever since BK took over and IMO will become a Championship club in the near future if he remains in charge.

Patrick Murphy
86 Posted 22/04/2015 at 19:00:58
Dave - WeÂ’ll have to agree to disagree but I thought that the Grantchester family was an interested party at the time but I might be wrong about that, but I would be very surprised if nobody wanted to buy Everton in 1999.

Johnson wanted out and if he hadn’t he would have kept hold of the club and possibly run us into the ground – but we’ll never know what may have happened to the club under PJ or anybody else because BK has been the owner for nearly 16 years.

James Flynn
87 Posted 22/04/2015 at 17:16:47
My Mikey (68) - Has it been this long?

"Sidekicks"? Sure, why not? With Kenwright as much WoodsÂ’s as the other way around. With that, we donÂ’t know if they despise one another.

I believe Woods loves sitting in the ownerÂ’s box just as much as Bill. Boyhood Blues who got to own their Club. HeÂ’s just not the fellow for the spotlight, which Kenwright clearly revels in (ThatÂ’s not a knock on either of them).

Puppet is not "off the mark". "Puppet" and "Woods" are antonyms. His success, financial and in the entertainment arena, is far beyond anything Bill has achieved. My response to the use of that word wasnÂ’t a defense of Woods, but more thinking how dumb it was to describe him that way to begin with.

Anyway, my thinking was based on the OP and a question IÂ’ve asked myself many times about our owners, "What exactly do they want to get out of owning EFC?" Woods and Kenwright desire, it seems, is just that their boyhood Club is a big-league one. Earl? Everton Football Club could be Everton Free-range Egg Farm; "WhereÂ’s mine"?

Bill canÂ’t, but Woods certainly could throw some money at player investment. He hasnÂ’t and, form holding, wonÂ’t. Which leads to RobertoÂ’s ability to keep us relevant. Moyes, at least, did that. And you never know about managers.

Been a long time since I closed a post with "Kenwright OUT!" So I have here again. IÂ’ll amend it to, "Woods, you can do one, too!"

James Marshall
88 Posted 22/04/2015 at 19:10:31
Colin@78

Farang is us, westerners – the name people in Thailand give to anyone of European descent.

Ged Simpson
89 Posted 22/04/2015 at 19:12:51
I will be shot for this but hey ho. We are a club who are not huge and probably won’t ever be again. We are top 10, sometimes better and sometimes worse. Like Villa we have a reasonable fan base locally (not as big as Newcastle though). And few fans elsewhere – just like Villa and Newcastle. That market is sewn up by top 4 and the RS.

That, from a fan of 54 years, is the reality.

Investment ? Big question is; Why? Would you if you were not a Blue?

So you can arse around with figures all day but this is, and will continue to be, the reality of the Premier League for the forseeable future.

And before you slate me too much... it brings tears to my eyes.

Alan Clarke
90 Posted 22/04/2015 at 19:19:56
That 0.5% figure sticks in the throat and Blue Bill should hang his head in shame. It shows how much Sky have saved his arse.

There is no chance he will ever sell up because heÂ’s have done it by now. ItÂ’s dead manÂ’s shoes so weÂ’re stuck with him until he goes to see Betty.

What I canÂ’t understand is the real lack of questions, not just from national and local media but from the fans. Do Everton fans really not give a shit? It depresses the hell out of me that my 4-year-old daughter is closer to the age I was when we last won a trophy than I am.

Ian Bennett
91 Posted 22/04/2015 at 19:29:48
My ten pence worth:-

We have lived hand to mouth since the NTL deal fell through. WeÂ’ve had no business plan since the NTL deal fell through.

The wages league table seems to be dominant driver in the EPL. Yet I read somewhere Athletico Madrid had lower wages last year than QPR, winning La Liga and losing finalists of the Champions League. You have to hope that my club can break that trend.

Ged Simpson
92 Posted 22/04/2015 at 19:33:56
And the question remains ,Alan. Where can the money come from if Bill left. I hate this too but tell me where it will come from?
Colin Glassar
93 Posted 22/04/2015 at 19:41:00
Atletico Madrid earn a quarter of what their big neighbours make, Ian, and have been pushing them for a few years now. This is a well run club with ambition something we are sadly lacking.
Patrick Murphy
94 Posted 22/04/2015 at 19:36:31
Ged - I think that is the point of Joe BeardwoodÂ’s talk, we have to get savvy and there is no room for emotion or sentiment. We canÂ’t afford to keep paying high wages we canÂ’t keep turning down large transfer fees for any of our players if and when they arrive.

The road we are currently on isnÂ’t sustainable, mainly because there is no plan in place, and building a new stadium without any of our own money is pie in the sky thinking and will never happen unless we mortgage the next 25 years or more or become indebted to some unknown party.

The club needs a strong and single-minded leader who will explain to the fans that we might have to go backwards in order for the club to move forward, that person doesnÂ’t appear to be at Goodison Park in any capacity at this moment in time. Bill, even if his heart is in the right place is doing the club a massive disservice by holding onto his shares but he could at the very least bring in a professional person or group of people to run the club on his behalf. The current CEO doesnÂ’t appear to have achieved much in taking the club forward and he too seems to believe that a new ground is the silver bullet solution to the clubÂ’s ills.

Bill appears to be a one-man-band but doesnÂ’t have any control over any of the instruments, he canÂ’t read music and relies on his employees to produce a symphony, unfortunately none of them have any musical talent either.

James Marshall
95 Posted 22/04/2015 at 20:03:40
Colin, Atletico Madrid also have a 54,000-seater stadium.....and theyÂ’re based in Madrid.
James Marshall
96 Posted 22/04/2015 at 20:05:42
To add to that, it was built in the 60s and renovated in the 80s.

It’s much bigger and much more modern than Goodison – plus they have a lot more prestige in modern times (in a European sense) than we do.

Mo Guindi
97 Posted 22/04/2015 at 20:11:06
Watching Atlethic right now reminds me of the Everton Dogs of War Team. IÂ’ve said this before but been ignored. WouldnÂ’t Reidy be a massive improvement on the fare we currently have???
Bill Gall
98 Posted 22/04/2015 at 19:16:59
Being a critic of Bill Kenwright, I sometimes wonder if I am being correct in being so critical of him. Everton FC have listed as the Board of Directors 5 people: Kenwright as.Chairman, Woods, Earl, Elstone and Carter as a lifetime member.

There are a number of supporters who like myself have been on Boards of various organizations and they are normally made up of an odd number of people. This formation is used on major decisions with a vote being taken and in the case of a tied vote the Chairman has the tie breaking vote.

In Everton's case, I believe that this would be a normal procedure with major decisions being made on, eg, ground improvements, new ground, finances for transfers, finances for the general operations of the club and any other major decisions.

The general running of the club would be run by the CEO Elstone with the budget provided who would consult with the Chairman if any major problems arose during the year. If this is the way the club is run, then it's the whole Board that should be held at fault and our anger should be directed at them, even if, as they say, they are not paid for their service to the club.

However, it is a reasonable belief among many supporters that BK runs the club with permission to run the club on their behalf and make any decisions he believes that is in the best interest of Everton FC. As the Board are made up of one of BKÂ’s friends, another whoÂ’s interest is only in the value of his shares, and another who he hired, while it may be impossible to prove, there may substance in their beliefs and I may be critical of the right person.

Talking about the timeline of EvertonÂ’s slow demise from the top of the Premier League it is interesting to know that when W Smith was hired, he was promised unlimited funds by the then Everton Chairman, Philip Carter; not long after that, BK became Chairman..

Phil Walling
99 Posted 22/04/2015 at 20:07:46
Ged Simpson; you ask the question twice! ItÂ’s as if you really believe that Kenwright actually puts his own money into the Club when all he and his nodding dog, Woods, does is agree to apportion funds from EvertonÂ’s own revenues to satisfy the whims of the manager at the time.

If there was any fear that they had to de-trouser their own coin, you wouldnÂ’t see either of them for dust. Believe me!

Joe McMahon
100 Posted 22/04/2015 at 20:20:36
The stadium is getting older and more decrepit season after season. Many Championship stadiums put ours to shame.

I was at Ewood Park today with work in a suite that sat well over 300 cabaret style, what have we got that comes anywhere near? Jack Walker put his own money in (lots of it), and we are asking for donations...

ItÂ’s enough to make you cry, what a pitiful sad situation Everton Football Club in 2015 is in. I was 25 last time we won anything, I donÂ’t think IÂ’ll see us win anything again.

Colin Glassar
101 Posted 22/04/2015 at 20:33:52
Yes, the Vicente Calderon is bigger than Goodison but I bet we have a higher income than Atletico Madrid. What IÂ’m saying is that if you are well run, on and off the field, you CAN compete. Villarreal (with a 12,000 cap ground) did for many years so ground size isnÂ’t the be all and end all.
Patrick Murphy
102 Posted 22/04/2015 at 20:41:50
In relation to the Champions League, which unfortunately wonÂ’t bother us for at least another 18 months or so, Uefa have decided to only seed the Champions of seven nations and the holders of the trophy from the start of next season, which, according to the BBC should lead to more of EuropeÂ’s top clubÂ’s meeting in the group stages.
Ged Simpson
103 Posted 22/04/2015 at 20:46:07
Phil - fantasy. They do not have the cash to make us a top 5 spender. Sad but true.

Try some reality about EFC.

Steve Pugh
104 Posted 22/04/2015 at 18:11:40
Everyone knows that a long journey has to start with a single step, well how about this for a first step. Get a sponsor for the youth teams, they canÂ’t have Chang on their shirts so get a separate sponsor, even 𧺬k a year is an improvement. Maybe next time we are in Europe we could look for sponsors for those one off games when we canÂ’t have Chang.

We are limited in what we can do right now but we really ought to be doing something.

Frank McGregor
105 Posted 22/04/2015 at 20:52:12
Patrick (#13), I agree with you and many of the ToffeeWeb posters regarding the running of the club – it could be a heck of a lot better.

My point is that one can produce statistics and reports to prove oneÂ’s point and Joe Beardwood does this annually and I am surprised the emotion that comes from his yearly report.

HereÂ’s looking forward to next year's report.

Andy Walker
106 Posted 22/04/2015 at 20:30:18
Ged 89, you nailed it mate (sadly). Reality checks are needed and you bring it to the thread.

ItÂ’s a very different world now than it was even 5 years ago, those with serious capital are not comfortable risking it in very uncertain world markets both economic and geopolitical.

The boat has sailed. Unless a blue who happens to be a billionaire appears on the horizon, the die is cast.

Ged Simpson
107 Posted 22/04/2015 at 21:06:03
And I hate it, Andy W.

But I understand the frustration and desire to blame someone. Best person to blame is PL boss and those who run CL. Not Bill as what can he do? I still see no real solution on here.

And if Qatar or whoever bought us? Great. We join a 4 club league with Hooray Henrys next to you in your seat.

Victory? Nah.

Bobby Thomas
108 Posted 22/04/2015 at 20:59:39
Athletico are moving to a new stadium, which is under contruction.
Ged Simpson
109 Posted 22/04/2015 at 21:51:21
Capital city, Bobby. So are West Ham and Man City ... Commonwealth Games, UK's 2nd city and a clever council.

No comparison to us.

Patrick Murphy
110 Posted 22/04/2015 at 21:54:32
Ged - Bill could do something more than he is actually doing, have your read that link from Chris (82) it makes him sound like a lost toddler in a busy shopping centre and that was from over four years ago, and nothing has changed since apart from the club manager. BK Interview
James Marshall
111 Posted 22/04/2015 at 22:07:31
I agree with Andy Walker – the stark reality is that the ship has long since sailed, and we’ve been cut adrift. Talking about a bigger stadium is one thing, but even that won’t really bring in a big investor anymore.

We’re up the creek along with the majority of other clubs in the world – the so-called ’big clubs’ these days aren’t measured by their history, they’re measured by current wealth – look at the list, even teams like Milan & Juventus, the traditional ’big’ clubs are falling by the wayside and you’re left with teams like PSG and Monaco who are monied and considered ’big’ clubs now.

We all feel as though Everton are a big club, but weÂ’re not and havenÂ’t been for years. Knowin yer istory is old hat, old news.....history.

I personally don’t see us ever making it to the top of the tree, or even making it into the so-called promised land of the Champions League on a regular basis – in fact, part of me is glad about that in a perverse way, as it’s the competition which has played a huge part in killing clubs like ours, and ruining football as a whole.

Tony Abrahams
112 Posted 22/04/2015 at 21:50:31
If you read Patrick 94, Ged, is it not frustrating having Bill Kenwright in charge of Everton right now?

In donations, or investment.

Kevin Tully has got it right – investment? Who would do such a thing if they were not a blue? 24/7 looking to sell Everton, is so much different than looking for donnations. Talk bout the irony of being careful what you wish for.

Ian Smitham
113 Posted 22/04/2015 at 22:22:45
Bill Gall (#98), interesting posting thanks, however, according to Page 67 of the Report and Accounts 2014, Robert Ellstone is not a Director. He is, of course CEO.

I believe the norm is that the Board appoint a CEO to run the Company on their behalf, and the CEO is accountable to them for the performance of the business against the objectives he/she has been set.

Regards how Everton is run, it is operated as a "Concert party" a group where the participants vote in line with one person's views. This involves a "Controlling Director" (someone who owns 25 % or more of the shares or who influences 25% or more) who determines policy and leaves it to the CEO to effect that policy in line with what I wrote above.

In all, I agree with much of your sentiment that the whole of the Board are accountable both in spirit and law.

Peter Mills
114 Posted 22/04/2015 at 22:33:14
Situations can change quite suddenly, weÂ’ve seen that in the past. So, for now, on the pitch, why not concentrate a bit more on League stability and winning the FA Cup and/or League Cup?
Ian Smitham
115 Posted 22/04/2015 at 22:47:49
Just as an aside, what were the criteria for attending this forum please??
Alan Clarke
116 Posted 22/04/2015 at 22:44:47
Ged in answer to 92, the fact is we donÂ’t have any money to start with. IsnÂ’t that the point of this thread?

The facts are that without the TV money, weÂ’re skint. No pot to piss in. 0.5% is a joke and shows there is no coherent business plan to generate income at the club beyond just relying on Sky and foreign TV deals. The TV money keeps us from going bust and keeps the club running but beyond that thereÂ’s no room for anything else. No money for a stadium, no money for facilities, no money for building a team. Our best players will continue to be sold in order to operate in the transfer market. We are completely stagnant and our owner and it seems the majority of fans donÂ’t give a shit.

IÂ’d swap Kenwright for someone who knows how to run a business.

Bill Gall
117 Posted 22/04/2015 at 23:17:17
Ian Smitham (#113), Thank you for the information on R Ellstone .I got the information from the clubs official website under directors. If this information you have given me is correct then we have a even numbered board that is not the norm for a company as you can have a tied vote .Guess I have to agree with your "Concert party" explanation.
Eric Myles
118 Posted 23/04/2015 at 01:51:30
Bill (#117), Elstone may possibly be both a director and CEO like his predecessor Wyness was.

Dave (#74), doesnÂ’t that make a case for a partial renovation of Goodison to provide additional and improved corporate facilities if corporate pull is not dependent on success?

ItÂ’s apparent that the only business plan that the board have is to hold onto a PL spot until the next round of TV rights bidding which will increase the income. We havenÂ’t yet seen the results of the last rights increase filter through and already a bigger and better deal is on the table for the future. So how that money is used be it players for on-field success, new stadium, GP renovations, or back pay for directors, will be key to our future.

Mark Finnegan
119 Posted 23/04/2015 at 05:35:50
It is the fans who demand answers because the local press wonÂ’t, will they? It is insulting how the Liverpool Echo just blatantly ignores the fact we havenÂ’t had a trophy for 20 years, it is insulting how they fail to acknowledge the debates that take place amongst our supporters and it is disgusting that they have never, for one minute, even begin to question Bill Kenwright and his colleagues. The whole relationship between fans, press and the Club stinks.

Just this morning The Echo released an article entitled ‘No trophy for 3 years, who is to blame at LFC, the manager, the players, the owners?’ yet they release an article on the same day about Everton entitled ‘Snods; United are good but Everton can beat them’. It fucking stinks.

Not for one minute does that rag even attempt to question EvertonÂ’s methods or demand answers as to why for a whole generation we havenÂ’t won silverware. They donÂ’t demand to know why we find ourselves selling players year on year.

The Lukaku deal – as great as that signing was – it is just a smoke screen in my opinion. We still owe Chelsea upwards of ٦ million for him, and thatÂ’s not forgetting the fact that we sold Fellaini for the same price tag just months before. But Kenwright and co believe they can dine out on that deal and plucky little Evertonians will accept it and move on.

But what about the player sales that have gone unnoticed, the RodwellÂ’s, the JelavicÂ’s and AnichebeÂ’s to name but a few recent departures. ThatÂ’s upwards of 㿀 million itself isnÂ’t it? Nobody seems to want to question why we never kick on. Nobody ever seems to want more at this Club. Plucky little Everton coasting along, forever in LiverpoolÂ’s shadow.

We got our tag as overachievers ‘punching above our weight’ under Moyes and nothing has changed now. Moyes and Martinez are both great in their own ways in my opinion, but ultimately when they were brought to the Club they must have to take a vow of silence when it comes to the running of the finances at Goodison Park. Plucky little budgets, shitty little press releases about ‘not needing many new players’ they almost become a censored mouthpiece for our Chairman and his colleagues. A mouthpiece to Kenwright just like the Liverpool Echo is – but now their relationship is one that is being put under intense scrutiny and rightly so.

ArenÂ’t journalists supposed to report the news and provide us with information, or ask questions? Well at the moment it is our fans doing all of the questioning, all of the finger pointing and information finding, we have become our own journalists because the ones paid to do it just arenÂ’t doing their job properly! Or if they did do their job properly then maybe theyÂ’d get sacked? Unfortunately because of KenwrightÂ’s relationships and connections then that is probably a sad reality that would happen!

Mocking us with articles asking what we think Tom Cleverley is worth and suggest we will have ‘ample’ funds to deal with come the summer. What are those ample funds then, according to the Echo’s sources? Bullshit, the lot of it. They are all on the payroll, just as many other local journo’s, theatre Lotharios and even Members of Parliament probably are! It’s terrible.

Put this into context – the Echo are questioning and looking to blame somebody at Liverpool for not winning a trophy in three years – a Club who have got wealthy owners willing to spend money on numerous players, a Club expanding their stadium with a new project, a Club who nearly won the league last year and a Club who have often won silverware over the past decade or so.

Yet they won’t write one single column inch questioning or blaming anyone at Everton FC – a Club who have got wealthy owners who aren’t willing to invest or spend, or for that matter find new investment or spend, a Club who only seem to sign players when a few have been shipped out beforehand, a Club who has no plans to expand its stadium or build a new one, and a Club who haven’t won a trophy for exactly 20 years.

Need I say any more? IÂ’ll let you make your own mind up about that rag of a newspaper.

Christopher Kelly
120 Posted 23/04/2015 at 06:13:36
IÂ’m done. This was the last straw for me. IÂ’ve spent too many years waiting for a change. ItÂ’s not happening. When it does, IÂ’ll be back. I canÂ’t waste good years of my life hoping for this dead-ass club to change itÂ’s colors. Email me if you want a little financial "Kenwright out" support. Happy to participate. Until that leech is out, nobody will become a new fan. ThatÂ’s the death knell for a club.
Mark Andersson
121 Posted 23/04/2015 at 10:35:29
Well that is a depressing start to my day. The reality is we dream of future glories, and thatÂ’s all it will ever be a dream.

I wrote a conspiracy theory a few months back about the RS really being behind the appointment of Martinez. Of course it was tongue-in-cheek. However, the fact is there is now only room for one big club in this city and that, whether you like it or not, is Liverpool.

I always look at both the crowds of Goodison and Anfield and you can clearly see there are more young faces at Goodison.

Scousers by nature are fighters of the underdog. So we will always have good support. The worrying thing is if the powers that be are happy being mediocre then really we can all but be sheep like.

I witnessed the glory years of the 80s at the age of 27. My son now in his early 30s will be lucky if he or his son aged 5 will ever witness or feel the pride of being a fan of the champions. ThatÂ’s sad.

Robin Hunuki
122 Posted 23/04/2015 at 13:15:48
I live in a place called Manly on SydneyÂ’s Northern Beaches. IÂ’m fortunate to walk around in my Everton Jersey; however, kids these days who follow the EPL over here (to some degree as other sports dominate more over here), can be seen in their Chelsea, Liverpool, and Man City jerseys.

A little kid asked me the other day, whoÂ’s Barkley? WhoÂ’s Everton?

Yes, Timmy Cahill can only do so much in terms of spreading the Royal Blue word around here in Sydney, Australia, but itÂ’s all about exposure and in every sports store we have here, the aforementioned clubs can be seen displayed in the football section. Not one Everton top... ThatÂ’s the disappointing thing, no exposure!

Once we get kits sold in sports stores around the globe, donÂ’t worry, IÂ’ll be doing my bit!

Bill Gall
123 Posted 23/04/2015 at 13:19:51
Eric. According to the official Everton website he is on the board of directors, As I commented in my earlier comments (#98) there is no-one on that board that is going to go against BKÂ’s running of the club. I think the expression 'dictator' is coming close to Bill and his train set.

Great comments from Mark on the lack of any so called journalists not inquiring about the situation at one of the founder clubs of the Football League, Everton FC.
.

Dave Abrahams
124 Posted 23/04/2015 at 15:16:10
Patrick, never read that interview in full before, itÂ’s so unbelievable, and some of the replies even more so. I find it incredible that people still want Kenwright as chairman of Everton FC after reading that; just a bluff merchant... IÂ’m not surprised as IÂ’ve met the hooky bastard.
Chris Feeley
126 Posted 23/04/2015 at 16:06:07
Dave, the interview transcript should be sent to him with a selection of questions to be answered in the Sunderland match programme. Short, simple answers – none of the waffle he came out with in 2011. I’d start with these:

1. Is the club for sale?
2. What is the price needed to buy the club outright?
3. Can Bill Kenwright accept that his efforts to sell the club, since the interview was conducted, have failed?
4. As such, can he acknowledge that he is probably not the best person to sell the club?
5. Does he intend to adhere to his doctorÂ’s Â’adviceÂ’ and stand down before he is 70? (4th September for those who are interested.)

IÂ’d also enquire if the rumours of the club paying his mortgage can be explained, as heÂ’s dined out enough over the years on being the chairman who mortgaged his house to Â’save the clubÂ’?

I fully expect that he will never answer these or any other questions in an honest manner, as that would expose his verbal diarrhea in the public domain for all to see. He personifies the club; the game has moved on, while he has stood still and failed to trade on past glories. ItÂ’s a disgrace.

Ian Smitham
127 Posted 23/04/2015 at 17:12:33
Chris @126, there are Mortgages and Mortgages. If you are referring to his house then it would be a benefit in kind and in the Club's accounts as a payment to a Director, which said BB denies.

However – and I do not claim to know the actual FACTS around Everton, but over at Man Utd, the people took over the Company, using another Company, and the Company doing the taking over had to Mortgage property to raise the funds

for the loan involved. So, in round figures, the assets were mortgaged and the Directors of the new controlling Company determined that their loan repayments would be made from the trading company.

Taking things to a conclusion, the Man Utd fans, like the or not, are buying the business for the ultimate owners, the Glazers.

The same could not be happening at Everton... could it??

Andy Meighan
128 Posted 23/04/2015 at 17:40:15
As long as we’re on board the Premier League gravy train every season nothing – and I mean nothing – will change on Kenwright’s watch. Yes, we may flirt – and I use the term loosely – with the odd cup run but while Bill and his cohorts are around we are going to remain stagnant. There’ll be no ground move, no sufficient transfer backing for the manager now or whoever that may be in the future. As long as the Sky money is there season after season nothing will change. He’s sucked the life out the club and we’ve sat back and let him.

I was quite glad when the Blue Union came along as I thought they might hound the sneaky bastard but they seemed to have disappeared off the face of the earth. Another bouncer Bill fended off successfully. I think we all know thereÂ’s no buyer out there because quite honestly what can you buy thatÂ’s not for sale?

Peter Laing
129 Posted 23/04/2015 at 17:58:09
Chris, there is not a cat in hellÂ’s chance of any of those questions being answered by Kenwright or anyone else from the Club. The Everton Board are masters of spin, they control the local media and words such as Â’commercial sensitivityÂ’ are often trotted out when the heat is turned up.

IÂ’m personally fed up of the whole charade and will be moving down to East Sussex over the summer and taking with me my two sons aged 10 and 12. Relinquishing the season tickets wonÂ’t be as hard as I thought and we will get to the occasional game.

Chris Feeley
130 Posted 23/04/2015 at 18:06:10
Ian: I donÂ’t think that it is a situation similar to the Glazers, rather a case of Kenwright not telling the complete truth as it would tarnish his Â’Blue Bill from the Boys PenÂ’ image with the national media.
Bill Gall
131 Posted 23/04/2015 at 18:08:27
Did BK only use the mortgage from his house to purchase the shares from P Johnson to become the major individual shareholder and move him into the chairmanÂ’s position. It is debatable that any of that money went back into the club.?
Chris Feeley
132 Posted 23/04/2015 at 18:14:05
Peter: I totally agree, in the current climate, as there is next to no pressure being exerted upon Kenwright and the board to come out and address the fansÂ’ issues and concerns.
However, there is the potential to change that.

Taking into account the recent passing of Phillip Carter, Kenwright will undoubtedly be at the game against United. The game is also live on Sky. This is surely the opportune moment to show the national media that the fans want answers and that all is not well?

Patrick Murphy
133 Posted 23/04/2015 at 18:33:24
There is a brief history of EvertonÂ’s shares and how the club was and is organised since 1892. For those with an accounting background there are accounts going back to the 1980s to peruse, or compare and contrast.
EFC Shareholders Association
Eugene Ruane
134 Posted 23/04/2015 at 18:20:55
Andy (128) - "I was quite glad when the Blue Union came along as I thought they might hound the sneaky bastard but they seemed to have disappeared off the face of the earth. Another bouncer Bill fended off successfully."

To be honest (sadly), I donÂ’t think BK had to do much fending. If I remember correctly, the (generally) apathetic response from the majority of blues to the BU, did the fending for him. He must LOVE this Â’Kopite behaviourÂ’ nonsense.

Jenny: "Out of all the cup competitions and bottom half of the league, theyÂ’re not going to be happy with you lad."

Bill: "Relax queen, they wonÂ’t do nothing coz for some mad reason, they think protest was invented by kopites."

Depressingly, I think you are 100% spot-on when you say – "As long as we're on board the Premier League gravy train every season, nothing – and I mean nothing – will change on Kenwright's watch."

Patrick Murphy
135 Posted 23/04/2015 at 18:44:45
Chris (132) I understand your sentiment, but feel that Sunday would be the wrong day to do anything but support the team, and remember Sir Philip Carter and his family, with the esteem and respect that he deserves.

In point of fact, it would be an opportune moment for the fans to show how much the club and its heroes mean to them by wearing the colours of the club in large numbers to transmit a positive message at a such a sad time.

Chris Feeley
136 Posted 23/04/2015 at 19:27:25
Patrick; As much as I understand your reluctance/reticence to use Sunday as the moment to address Kenwright, I see the timing as something that will hit home with him.

HeÂ’s openly acknowledged Sir Phillip as an inspirational figurehead, to whom he looked up to as Â’ChairmanÂ’. Sir Phillip is now rightly being recognised as a club legend, after presiding over the most successful period in the club's history. How times have changed.

On Sunday it should be an opportunity, without vitriol, to ask the questions in front of the world: why has our club stood still under the stewardship of EvertonÂ’s self-proclaimed biggest fan? At the very least, Kenwright should ask himself what his legacy will be? Somehow I doubt that he will be remembered as fondly.

Eric Myles
137 Posted 24/04/2015 at 01:36:47
Bill (#131), BK used the money borrowed from Anita Gregg to purchase his shares in the Club.

He would not have raised nearly enough money from a mortgage, if he even took one out, and itÂ’s not just one of his Uncle Cyril stories.

Dave Abrahams
138 Posted 24/04/2015 at 10:23:44
Patrick Murphy and Chris Feeley IÂ’m in half agreement with you both, between showing respect for Sir Phillip Carter and showing our distaste for Kenwright and the way he runs the club.

I donÂ’t think any of us will be surprised if during the minute's silence for Mr Carter, KenwrightÂ’s face will appear on the big screens, and heÂ’ll have his sad sack face on.

Derek Thomas
139 Posted 24/04/2015 at 11:41:20
WeÂ’re restricted by our own values, to do anything other than show our appreciation in that special minute WOULD be the oft derided Â’kopite behaviorÂ’.

So Teflon Billy slides again.

Tony Abrahams
140 Posted 24/04/2015 at 12:52:17
IÂ’m restricted by my love for Everton, and the knowledge that we are being run, by a phoney bastard of a sycophant.

Patrick the link to the meeting between Kenwright and the Blue Union has just made my bad mood even worse. It really is incredible that we are stuck with this "pull the wool over your eyes" joker.

IÂ’m not in the mood for Everton right now, so I will pay my respects to Phillip Carter on these pages.

I never agreed with everything you did, especially your reluctance to fight the European ban. But thanks for staying loyal to Kendall, when a lesser man would have crumbled. It gave me so much joy, watching that great Everton team in the eighties, and for that I will always be thankful.

RIP, Phillip Carter, and condolences to all your family.

Trevor Lynes
141 Posted 24/04/2015 at 15:09:25
Kenwright has never said that the club is for sale. He has always said he is looking for investment which means donations. The manager can stay so long as we remain in the Premier League and lots of money will never be available unless we are in relegation danger. Window after window we make profits and we never plough it back sufficiently on transfers in.

In error it was said that we need 6 or 7 extra squad players prior to this season beginning. Unfortunately it did not come from a board member but from our naïve manager. This was definitely required if we were to make a real show both in Europe and domestically. As usual, we trod water and followed a fine season with a dismal one.

Manchester Utd have spent many millions on getting their club out of trouble this season and will spend at least as much in the close season to make them Premier League title challengers next season. Personally I do not admire them for doing it and I have much more respect for clubs who have good seasons without Â’buyingÂ’ success.

Realistically we are a mid-table side nowadays operating virtually on a shoestring compared to our competitors. Each time we supposedly join a race for a proven star player, we are seen to drop out of the bidding very early on. We scrap for left overs and loans and the fans expect our team to challenge for Europe against clubs who pay out more for one player than we can spend on any number.

Being successful in Europe needs a big squad of decent Premier League standard players and this club and itÂ’s board will not pay to provide them. The fans are the only investors in our club, period!

Eric Myles
142 Posted 24/04/2015 at 15:41:06
Trevor #141 "Kenwright has never said that the club is for sale. He has always said he is looking for investment which means donations."

DonÂ’t forget though that in the Desperation Kirkby Inquiry, the Club mouthpiece stated under oath, on behalf of his employers, that the Club was for sale and they had been looking for a buyer (24/7) for years.

Phil Walling
143 Posted 24/04/2015 at 16:15:01
Bill Gall @117, I suspect that in the event of the so-called Board actually holding a meeting at which a tie in voting occurred Â’the outcome will be determined by the Chairman having a second and casting vote.Â’

Normal practice in most businesses, I believe.

Ross Edwards
144 Posted 24/04/2015 at 16:43:27
Trevor,

Â’YouÂ’ll never get a better salesman for Everton Football Club than Bill Kenwright.Â’

As he put it. What a lie that turned out to be. And the constant board lies we were fed about the club being for sale.

Matt Traynor
145 Posted 24/04/2015 at 17:01:24
Eric #142, during the DK Inquiry it was categorically stated that the club was not for sale.

Had they got the go ahead for that folly, IÂ’m sure the situation wouldÂ’ve changed, as they were never going to be in a position to fund it. They thought that having a planning consent would have buyers flocking to their door.

Chris Feeley
146 Posted 24/04/2015 at 17:22:23
Dave 138: I think our problem is that opportunities to make a statement this season are running out. WeÂ’ve got Sunderland and Tottenham left at home after United, and then itÂ’s a long summer which gives Kenwright the opportunity to sweep this all back under the carpet.
Dave Williams
147 Posted 24/04/2015 at 17:51:20
BK took control of the club when the then owner was starting to sell off our best players as he was no longer interested. Debt had increased due to a spending spree by Smith of some 㿀m. A proposed deal with NTL which was to raise around 㿀m fell through due to NTL's failing business which left us with high levels of debt.

The board managed to continue to improve what was a desperately poor squad when Smith was sacked without support from the bank which had drawn a line under our overdraft. Rooney and Lescott were sold and the money was used to improve the squad. With a couple of exceptions, the team started finishing in the top 7 of the league with a few Wembley appearances thrown in.

We just missed out on CL last season and the poor season this time has to be down to a strange performance by the manager starting with pre-season and poor fitness.

To get to my point, I don’t think the board has done a bad job. BK, for those who have not met him, is a very passionate Evertonian who knows more about the club and it’s history than most. To suggest he has taken money out of the club is a nonsense – look at the accounts and bear in mind that any financial reward bestowed upon a director has to be declared in the accounts.

There is nothing declared! No businessman can go through life without upsetting people but the club is in better nick now than for a good few years and we are not in any danger of some foreign guy coming in and selling our players or making us play in red! If Roberto can get himself back on track, we will have a good season next time and if he canÂ’t then he will be gone by Christmas.

We need a plan for the future to focus on youth as we will never be able to buy success and maybe look at some redevelopment of Goodison if a new stadium is out of reach .

Finally I had the pleasure of meeting Sir Philip and Lady Carter last year and they were a delightful couple, absolutely charming and down to earth and passionate about our club. He is a very sad loss to our club and must be one of the most significant figures in it’s history. RIP – a great man!!

Dave Abrahams
148 Posted 24/04/2015 at 20:20:55
Dave Williams, what makes you think he knows more about football and Everton than most? It wasnÂ’t the impression I got of him, admittedly after a short heated conversation/argument with him.
Peter Laing
149 Posted 24/04/2015 at 20:30:33
Dave, please cast your mind back to the FSF fiasco and Christopher Samuelson, Bill obviously didnÂ’t do due diligence on that occasion when he had the temerity to introduce that charlatan as somebody who had followed EvertonÂ’s fortunes for a long, long time. He was backhanded by an astute Evertonian in about 5 mins at the press conference when he was asked who won the Cup and scored the goals in the 66 Cup Final.

Kenwright is a proven liar, Goodison failing safety certificates etc etc, the self proclaimed greatest Evertonian is a phoney and has done everything in his powers to retain control, even stabbing his old mate Paul Gregg in the back when the Kings Dock fell through.

Patrick Murphy
150 Posted 24/04/2015 at 20:51:35
Personally I couldnÂ’t give a hoot whether the Chairman, Manager or players know about our history as a club or not, that is for the supporters to care about.

The people responsible for the running of the club would be better advised to decide our future, that is what they are responsible for, how to make the best of our situation and where they plan to take the club in the future.

If they all want to be remembered for the right reasons, then I urge them to get their fingers out and start doing something about the here and now and do everything possible to improve the club and help the first team win games. Not easy, but they are the only people able to do anything positive for the club – as fans we have no choice but to hope they know what they are doing.

Denis Richardson
151 Posted 24/04/2015 at 21:40:52
Dave 147, accounts declare whether the directors receive any payments from the company. You are right that the Everton accounts donÂ’t show any payments to the directors.

However, the accounts do show annual interest payments of around ٟM a year (for several years now, btw) on a loan taken from a company based in the BVI. What we don't know is who the owner of this BVI company is; what we do know is that at least one (if not more) or our directors have business interests in the BVI.

Now, it could just be a coincidence or it could be that a director (indirectly) has given a loan to the club at an interest rate of I believe around 9%. If the latter is true, would you call that taking money out of the club or not? Also with the huge sky money weÂ’re getting, why does this loan keep getting rolled over annually instead of just being repaid (and saving the club ٟM a year in interest costs) or taking a loan out from somewhere else at a significantly lower rate?

Our accounts will never tell the whole story and certainly make absolutely no mention of a certain Mr Phillip Green.

BK may be a true fan but he certainly does not have the ability to take the club forward, in commercial ability, financial ability or any other type of ability. He is however living his dream and being chairman keeps him in the public eye (which he loves). HeÂ’s going nowhere in the near future and a generation of Blues will unfortunately never get to see the club in its full glory.


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