Martinez and Lukaku call for response against Sunderland

Bad performance brings acceptance of the negatives and determination to improve. This is what we missed earlier in the season, and is hopefully a sign that Martinez has learnt from that.

In fact, every single sentence of this nature always has the word "hopefully".

I don’t want "hopefully" to hang my hat on – I want rigour, discipline, diligence, competence, planning, tactical nous, timing, business aptitude and man management skills. I expect these attributes for a multi-million salary, not hope.

If you want "hopefully" then "hopefully" our next manager has at least some of these qualities because the current clown certainly doesnÂ’t.

Enough of this 'response' crap. It is you and the players that are responsible for the crap we have had to put up with.

What the fuck does he do for his money?

As for Lukaku, he would have had 5 or 6 more if he hadnÂ’t been injured? ...... DonÂ’t make me laugh, heÂ’d have had 5 or 6 more if heÂ’d shown a bit of effort on a consistent basis, you mean?

Now heÂ’s saying Â’We canÂ’t afford to do it againÂ’ when by rights we shouldnÂ’t have had that lack of intensity in the first place.

And one last thing. Can someone actually provide a clear case for Martinez based on this season only? All I see is a lot of uses of the words Â’hopefullyÂ’ Â’I believe... etcÂ’. The evidence from this season is clear, that RM has failed miserably in terms of results, performance and tactics.

As Joe says, I expect competent management, a hard working, fully motivated team and a clear tactical plan and organisation. This season, we havenÂ’t seen any. I certainly donÂ’t hope for it either, it should be guaranteed.

He openly criticises the players and you still blame him? Surely his statement shows heÂ’s equally as pissed off with the players for not doing as theyÂ’re told as we should be? I still donÂ’t understand this mentality of bashing the manager, even when he comes out and states, "It wasnÂ’t just the defenders, it was an approach," he continued. "We didnÂ’t have the intensity, we didnÂ’t keep the ball well enough, and we didnÂ’t create enough threat or get into the final third enough. The whole performance wasnÂ’t up to the level we expect."

That to me sounds like a damning indictment of the players not doing as asked by the manager.

I suppose youÂ’ll argue that he somehow has failed to motivate them, right?

He could quite legitimately have taken off Mirallas and Naismith after 20 minutes and many Blues wouldnÂ’t have complained or had a go at the manager for taking such action. It may well be that Roberto is using or has used the last few weeks to test the character of certain players in his squad, but the manager canÂ’t carry out all of his actions in private, sometimes a public statement has the desired effect. The same situation arose at Southampton in December and he didnÂ’t alter things out on the pitch, again nobody would have batted an eye if he had taken three players off at half-time.

The players have been totally inconsistent, their attitude stinks at times and there doesnÂ’t seem to be any leadership or geeing up on the pitch. CanÂ’t begin to imagine what Peter Reid would have done to these players around him!

Having followed this team for over 50 years IÂ’ve seen brilliance, effort and dross. This team seems to have had all of those moments, the latter more than the former. CanÂ’t wait for this season to end - I have never been so confused and disappointed in a team that, on paper, should be a lot better than this.

Gerry, I think that whipping boy is part of the managerÂ’s role. I wonÂ’t reiterate my dismay at what Martinez offers but he defends his players in admirable fashion. They owe him big time.

I was there at the Southampton game in December, screaming at him to do something as he stood there on the touchline watching us go 3-0 down while not making any subs, so believe me IÂ’ve been part of the anger aimed at him when itÂ’s warranted - I just donÂ’t see that giving him further stick when heÂ’s openly/publicly giving his own players stick is helpful or justified.

HeÂ’s not brave enough to make early changes, perhaps because of conviction bordering on arrogance at times, but that doesnÂ’t mean itÂ’s his fault when players donÂ’t try hard.

Gerry - I think weÂ’ve all been left confused and disappointed quite a lot this season. I feel your pain. IÂ’m a 33 year supporter in his 40Â’s so IÂ’ve seen some good times as well, mate. Attitude is just as important as motivation, and I personally donÂ’t believe that our manager is always at fault - he takes a serious amount of flack that the players should be taking, but somehow have dodged all too often this year.

Who was it who stopped practising defending crosses in training.

Who was it that said corners and free kicks are not proper football.

Well guess what guys their first two goals came from crosses that we failed to deal with.

We have had three of the best center halves going this season (and yes I include Distin in that, whose treatment by RM has been disgraceful) so it cant all be them.

The players are not prepared properly for games, I have never seen the same players look so unfit, uncertain and demoralised at times.

It is not just one or two having a bad game its the whole squad.

One point to remember though of course, who picks all of those players listed above. (I forgot to include Alacaraz as well).

What we need is a new manager who can then build a more skilful and committed squad. Then we might have a team worth watching.

What exactly is our incentive??

Seems to me another damp squib of a performance on the horizon.

The answer is cold showers when you lose, and cold showers all week in training (compulsory, with big Dunc standing in the changing room to make sure they are in for 5 mins). A win and you're back on hot; a draw and they are lukewarm.

I think we would see a distinct improvement in results.

WhatÂ’s Â’actions speak louder than wordsÂ’ in Spanish or Flemish?

Martinez if itÂ’s canÂ’t or wonÂ’t, then get rid.

If the Players wonÂ’t do it for Martinez, the real question is WHY!

If the Players can’t – then that’s the next guys problem.

For me, Martinez has shown that he, for what ever reason, canÂ’t get them to perform on a regular basis. Add to that; The freezing out of Distin.

GarbuttÂ’s contract; we didnÂ’t really know much about the changes or whatever it was... Is this part of the reason Martinez isnÂ’t fussed if he goes?

Baines's damning with faint praise remarks

OsmanÂ’s comments; Moyes's easiest training was like MartinezÂ’s hardest... The whole pre-season.

1, 2 or was it 3 "I wonÂ’t change a thing" statements?

Wall to wall Hammies.

Mass resignations by staff.

The Whole Muriel thing.

The post match shite.

Have I missed anything? Mirallas and the penalty...

Could say more but leave it at that.

Clubs that regularly dismiss managers have hardly ever succeeded: look at Newcastle, Sunderland, Tottenham, Wigan (recently), Portsmouth, Blackpool et al.

Having said that, I am not satisfied with the season we have had either. But I believe the manager – who last year achieved a record Premier League points haul and produced a team that played our best football in years – deserves more time and less name-calling than many on here are prepared to give him.

Clearly Barkley and Ossie were fit, otherwise they wouldnÂ’t have been on the bench. Why change a wining side? We had six days rest so tiredness canÂ’t be a factor, especially when one of the oldest men in the team keeps on getting playing time when heÂ’s not injured or banned.

Stop tinkering and play a settled team.

On another note, starting to get concerned about Stones, as he is regularly losing his man. Granted he is young and will learn but itÂ’s happening most games.

Oh and donÂ’t get me started on that fecking first goal...... Jags has been getting buttfucked by Villa's big up-and-unders for as long as I can remember.

If he falls, he should be sacked. If he presides over a year-long decline from Champions League challengers to having us talk about the possibility of relegation, he should be sacked.

Although I feel for Martinez in one way because Kenwright put significant pressure on him unnecessarily right from the word go with that "IÂ’ll get you Champions League" quote.

Expectations have risen obviously since last season and unfortunately Martinez has fallen massively short in terms of performance, results and tactics.

Really sad, and as we have said on many occasions: "you get what you deserve".

Loved Martinez when he arrived, but, shortly into his tenure, my pal. a diehard Wigan supporter, warned me that he would be the ruin of Everton.

Not quite yet, but surely on the basis of this season, he has to be sacked.

Distin was initially frozen out for no other reason than heÂ’s not up to standard any more. HeÂ’s lost a yard of pace and itÂ’s shown whenever heÂ’s played. ThereÂ’s no mystery, the guy's 38 and not good enough.

In terms of his treatment – banished from the first team and asked to play with the U21s. This might have something to do with not accepting the manager's decision that he’s no longer good enough to be in the first 11, and spitting his dummy out.

I for one, believe the rumour that he (Distin) along with EtoÂ’o were divisive characters in the dressing room; if this was the case, Martinez was right to sell EtoÂ’o and freeze Distin out.

How exactly is Duncan Ferguson Â’a cheatÂ’?

How strange.

No shit, Sherlock. WeÂ’ve been telling you that all season and all youÂ’ve done is watch on with that gormless look on your face

Can somebody please tell "Robbie" that its HIS job to do something about it. It's like sitting in a restaurant listening to the chef bleat about the quality of food heÂ’s just cooked for you.

He did not lose half a yard of pace. He could still see off many a rapid winger even at the start of this season.

His concentration and application dropped but so did Jags and Bainsey.

Call it the World Cup hangover, shambolic preseason or what you will, but the players and a number of established backroom staff obviously havent bought into the "Martinez philosophy".

IÂ’m talking about this game in isolation as I donÂ’t for one second think that Martinez asked them to go out with any less desire than last week and expect such a half-arsed effort like that. Villa absolutely wanted it more and fully deserved the win so I respect a bit of honesty from the boss on this one.

On the first two goals conceded, I actually think the first is a bloody good goal. Every goal could be defended better but itÂ’s difficult to stop a man mountain getting on the end if a cross like that.

The second is just pure shit defending, simple as. No coaching should be required for something so basic, itÂ’s pure application and laziness from the markers not following the most dangerous striker in the league at the moment. Last week, the defending had the exact intensity required and this week, they just couldnÂ’t be arsed. I blame the players this week, not Bob.

Carried Away.

As for the post regarding teams changing their managers, the interesting point was the Wigan (recently) reference. Wigan didnÂ’t change one particular manager for four years and look where that stability got them. They were progressively worse until relegated.

If a manager cannot motivate the players then he cannot be the manager no matter what his tactics. If the players cannot be motiviated because they have no competition from the back-ups then the manager, if he selected them or retained them, is to blame. If the team finally finds form and the manager tinkers and gets it wrong then he is again to blame. How much time such a manager is given depends on the Board. But if they wait too long, then they must also share in the blame but it is the fans who will suffer.

I agree with some of your points but "The players let down the manager"?

DId Ossie and Barkley him down? Or did he let them down by benching them after decent performances? Did young Garbutt – who seems to be getting frozen out after letting it slip that we didn't have a game plan at Newcastle – let him down? ... What about Robles, has he let him down?

Robbie's half-arsed approach to the season and his reluctance to reward good performances have let down the players and the fans since last May. Saturday was just the latest example?

How can a talented young player like Stones know what his responsibility is at corners when heÂ’s only been practicing them for a few weeks?

Why is Besic forced to watched Barry have Weston after Weston?

Why on earth was Mirallas allowed to insult everyone who traveled and the players who were benched for him, with his disgusting lack of commitment on Saturday? The single most gutless performance I have witnessed from an Everton player.

What about Naismith? Ok heÂ’s not Alex Young, but he isn't stupid. Can anybody come on and say what his instructions were on Saturday ?

We can make excuses for Martinez all season - and some people are clearly going to do just that - but he has confused the hell out of his younger players with his idiotic comments, One minute he is telling them they are going to be world beaters, the next he is benching them indefinitely in favor of a has been, or never will be.

Sometimes I think we (the fans) are the only thing keeping this club afloat, We are stuck with a board who cant help/won't help. We need a strong man at the helm just to stand still, we don't have one, that, imo, is why we are going backwards.

BTW, Sandra, I haven't seen many posts from you before. Welcome, we need a few more ladies around here if only to keep us neurotic, hysterical arl drama queens in check.

Oh and weÂ’ve never won a game when on live on BT sport. 2 seasons now I think. IÂ’ll bet thereÂ’s not another team in the Premier League who can match that miserable record. We all know the Spaniard wonÂ’t be dismissed so expect more of the same next season. Because his idea of good footballers differs a lot from most of us on here. Look at his transfer record.