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Garbutt's future remains unclear

11/05/2015  Comments (74)  jump
But he may play in Everton's last two games of the season

Third choice is not what this rising star wants for next season

Luke Garbutt looks likely to play in Everton's final two games of the season but it is still not certain if he will be at Goodison Park beyond this summer when his current contract expires.

The 21 year-old came on as a substitute late in Saturday's 2-0 defeat to Sunderland because of an injury to Leighton Baines and the latter's absence, combined with that of Bryan Oviedo who is ruled out until pre-season, should ensure that Garbutt gets two more starts.

According to Roberto Martinez, however, whether the England U21 international begins the 2015-16 campaign with the Blues is entirely down to the player.

Martinez doesn't want to lose such a highly promising player but he acknowledges the size of the task facing Garbutt in trying to displace an established full England like Baines and that, more than financial terms, could be the deciding factor.

We are very close (on terms) but for Luke, it is more about sitting down at the end of this season and seeing what is best for the next step in his career.

At the moment it's down to him. We really want him to stay but I can understand he can feel that having the number three for England ahead of him will make it difficult for him to play.

We need to to draw a path for his development and make sure he is quite happy with that because it is no good to keep a player who is not happy to be part of the squad because he knows what is in front of him.

Quotes sourced from Liverpool Echo

Reader Comments (74)

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Jim Hardin
1 Posted 11/05/2015 at 16:39:55
So, I am guessing that RM, because he is smarter than all of us, will decide to abandon the current formation and not play the "risky" 4-4-2 and will instead, shake things up, and trot out a lineup with three backs, so Alcaraz can play; move Osman and Coleman into the wing positions; have Barkley as the more advanced midfielder and McCarthy moved to the holding mid role, with Naismith, McGeady, and Kone as the rest.
James Stewart
2 Posted 11/05/2015 at 17:01:28
The writing is on the wall here. He will go for some pathetic compensation fee. The smart move would have been to use him more this season and keep him and Baines vying for the place, letting Oviedo go.
Tony J Williams
3 Posted 11/05/2015 at 17:24:03
The problem is, if he doesnÂ’t want to sign, then there is absolutely nothing Martinez can do about it.

Offer him a good deal and a season-long loan to a Premier League side and hopefully that will keep him happy and he might sign up.

Ross Edwards
4 Posted 11/05/2015 at 17:33:57
HeÂ’s definitely going in the summer.
Conor McCourt
5 Posted 11/05/2015 at 17:22:06
I am one of RobertoÂ’s staunchest supporters but this fiasco is really pissing me off and it is really disconcerting some of the language used today. It almost sounds as if he is telling Luke in no uncertain terms that he can Â’stay if he wantsÂ’ and that he is 3rd choice and seems to wish that Oviedo was fit to play him.

Now he may already have accepted that Luke is gone and trying to play down his importance but while the lad has still not signed for anyone else he should be telling him to fight for the starting place and should he not win the battle then he can go on loan at Xmas.

I really donÂ’t care if we get beat 10-0 in the next 2 games... the most pressing agenda at the club right now should be getting Luke sorted so we will not have to worry about the left back role for the next 10 years. Wait until the end of the season for what?? Our season ended in Kiev; now should be about the future and getting our board to get their finger out which they failed to do last summer.

Denis Richardson
6 Posted 11/05/2015 at 17:44:15
Not sure why a simple Â’weÂ’ll do our best to get him to stay at seasons end, for now weÂ’re focusing on the last two games of the seasonÂ’. Standard reply that most other managers would give but RM canÂ’t help himself when heÂ’s got a mic in his face.

Either way, the club has fucked up letting the matter get to this stage in the first place. They should have extended his contract last summer.

Aidy Dews
7 Posted 11/05/2015 at 17:51:24
Simple solution: get the new contract sorted, send him out on loan to a Bournemouth type club for a season, let him get valuable game time and experience and let him develop more. Then have him come back and be in a position to seriously challenge Baines for his spot when he will be knocking on 33 and ready to unwind and see his career out!
Victor Jones
8 Posted 11/05/2015 at 17:50:16
Watch in a few years time when Luke Garbutt has become one of the best left-sided players in the league. He has impressed me, every time that I have seen him play. Martinez IMO has not done enough to keep him at the club.

But watch his effort to keep the likes of Alcaraz and McGeady. I really do despair what this manager is going to do in the preseason. The writing seems to be on the wall regarding Luke Garbutt. How many other youngsters is he also going to let go. And how many oldies and walking wounded is he going to keep?

Ajay Gopal
9 Posted 11/05/2015 at 18:06:43
It is unfortunate that Luke is vying for a place where we have an abundance of riches. I donÂ’t blame Martinez and I donÂ’t blame Garbutt. It is a situation which has developed naturally.

To those saying that Garbutt should have been signed up so that the club at least get a substantial transfer fee, I can understand that, but the practical side was that Everton were probably not prepared to gamble precious contract wages on someone who had not yet played a senior game last season - and then this season, it was all down to Garbutt really to decide to sign for Everton or not. He has chosen not to, so far.

If Garbutt really wants to repay Everton for developing him to be a player he is today, he should sign a contract, so that at the very least RM can use the sale to generate some funds. Maybe, even a swap deal can be worked with Moyes to take Garbutt on loan for a year in exchange for a promising player from Real Sociedad who plays in a position which we are crying out for (striker, creative midfielder, etc).

James Flynn
10 Posted 11/05/2015 at 18:38:13
WhatÂ’s unclear? Garbutt is out of contract. Baines and Oviedo are not. LetÂ’s pay attention to what the Club can get a Tribunal.

With the personnel turnover weÂ’re looking at in the next 12 months, more things to worry about than an unproven LB leaving.

Nigel Gregson
11 Posted 11/05/2015 at 18:40:59
We canÂ’t force him into staying. If he wants to go, he should go.

For me, heÂ’s not nearly ready to replace Leighton and he should accept this.

Jim Bennings
12 Posted 11/05/2015 at 19:37:46
Baines has been crack this season and the partnership with Pienaar a thing of the heÂ’s getting older.

Oviedo has become dogged by injury problems.

Keeping Garbutt has to be a no-brainer surely??

Phil Gardner
13 Posted 11/05/2015 at 19:33:05
What the fuck happened to early season Â’Baines as the next Philip LahmÂ’ shite then Martinez? Not wishing to labour the bleedin obvious but wouldn't that see a space at LB available for the kid? Unless it was all a load of bollocks from the outset?

Maybe sticking with an aging international and a lad who may never fully recover from an horrific injury and letting this kid Â’do a GoslingÂ’ is all part of Bobby No ClueÂ’s masterplan... ably assisted by Kecks-down Kenwright and the Monty Python board...

I fuckin despair. Send for the Oystens... Why not?

Conor McCourt
14 Posted 11/05/2015 at 18:52:41
James I couldnÂ’t disagree more especially with some of our ageing squad need replacing as you point out.

I have only seen one other left back at his age take a senior game by the scruff of the neck in the premier league era and that was Luke Shaw. For me there is no comparison between Luke and Leighton at the same age and the same people who are playing down him leaving now will be the ones shouting about it in a couple of years time.

Ashley Cole is a much better athlete than Baines and at 33 he could no longer cope with the demands of the Premiership and despite Leighton's undoubted contribution this season especially going forward I feel it was still his poorest for some time. We will get two decent seasons out of him at most.

Most will argue Luke doesn't deserve to replace Baines but, when Fergie moved Irwin to left back to accommodate Gary Neville the Irishman was the best RB in the business at the peak of his career, yet he decided the time was right to give Neville his head for his and the team's future.

Arsenal and Man City are in need of Englishmen for Europe and IÂ’m sure would both be interested in Baines and we could definitely still command a decent fee for a player who deserves to be playing at that level in the twilight of his career.

You call Luke unproven but he already an Under-21 international and one could say the same about Kane at the start of the season. HeÂ’s head and shoulders better than this season's youngsters and acquitted himself well in both Europe and the Prem. Oviedo is injury prone and not of the same calibre regardless.

Pete Edwards
15 Posted 11/05/2015 at 19:47:37
Why do people think we would be able to offer him to another Premier League team for a season? That would mean one would want him and want him as 1st choice otherwise thereÂ’s no point. HeÂ’s got undoubted potential but let;s not over-estimate the lad and who would possibly take him.

And Phil, heÂ’s not doing a Gosling, the two situations are very different.

John Raftery
16 Posted 11/05/2015 at 19:47:49
Garbutt has yet to convince me he is ready to be a regular starter in the first team. Certainly he does not bring enough to the team to replace Baines or Oviedo in the pecking order. When he had his run in the team his performances started to tail off towards the end while on Saturday Adam Johnson left him for dead. From the clubÂ’s point of view we have offered him what we think he is worth. It is now for him and his agent to decide whether or not to accept that or try his luck elsewhere. What we as a club should never do is pay inflated salaries to players who have yet to prove they can cut it in the top flight.
Mark Pierpoint
17 Posted 11/05/2015 at 19:58:53
I agree with Pete #15.

I am not at all sure there are many clubs who are going to offer a loan gig to Luke Garbutt. Not Premier League clubs anyway. He is a prospect admittedly. I think he will be a Premier League player, how high though is hard to predict.

It will take a brave manager (maybe foolhardy?) to give a starting place to a 21-year-old defender who there is no prospect of buying. I get the thing about Bournemouth. There is a possibility they may go for it, but you would imagine that they may look to use one of their two PL loans on someone who is more experienced rather than an unproven defender?

I thought Baines had a good game against Sunderland. I am a fan of Garbutt, but anyone who thinks he is ready to come in and replace Baines must be watching a different game to me. Luke is simply not going to walk into many Premier League teams atm.

I would prefer to keep Garbutt as opposed to Oviedo, though, if a decision has to be made. Good player, great guy but something has got to give, and for me it would be Ovideo to be sacrificed.

Ray Robinson
18 Posted 11/05/2015 at 20:06:23
Sheldon look-a-like Johnson made mince meat out of him a few times on Saturday.
Jay Harris
19 Posted 11/05/2015 at 20:14:40
I totally agree with Phil #13.

With all the problems in MF with left-sided players, why didn't Martinez put Baines there? Put Luke in and get him to sign a new contract.

Once he is under contract, if he is not getting game time, he can command a fee if he wants to go.

Colin Glassar
20 Posted 11/05/2015 at 20:21:37
IÂ’d really like him to stay but, if he doesnÂ’t want to, then we canÂ’t do too much about it, can we?
Scott Hall
21 Posted 11/05/2015 at 21:15:11
Sorry but I disagree with all of the plaudits for Baines and this assumption that he should start without question.

To me he has looked all season like a player that is approaching the last few years of his career and now would be the sensible time to make him available. Doing that brings in a decent transfer fee (although the 㿊m days have long gone) and allows us to move forward with the man looking every bit like his domestic and international replacement.

But thatÂ’s not Everton. We donÂ’t look to the future. Garbutt will go for free, Baines will continue to decrease in both value and ability and when he retires weÂ’ll have to spend big. Standard.

Tony Sullivan
22 Posted 11/05/2015 at 21:23:22
Jim Bennings (12)

Keeping Garbutt is indeed a priority. But what do you do with a long-serving England international who stayed with us when he could easily have gone to Man Utd?

Gerard Carey
24 Posted 11/05/2015 at 22:14:36
Sell our younger players or let them go for nought!! What if Coleman is taken by Chelski? Our super Roberto might start next season with a back five of Howard, Hibbert, Jagielka, Alcaraz and Baines. And of course Barry in front of them.

Dads Army, here we come!!!.

Harold Matthews
25 Posted 11/05/2015 at 21:42:36
Against Stoke and Sunderland he had a taste of what Baines has had to put up with all season. No left side support, attacked by a group of opposing players and very few opportunities to get forward. Still learning the role, he didnÂ’t fare too well... but he is a fine athlete who will hopefully improve with experience.

Not sure we can persuade him to stay. HeÂ’s not a local lad and he and his agent are probably waiting to weigh up the various offers that may come in during the summer.

Andy Crooks
26 Posted 11/05/2015 at 22:18:29
IÂ’m not averse to bashing Martinez but what was he to do here? I understand Garbutt was offered a new deal which his advisors thought best to leave until the end of the season.

No doubt if heÂ’d been a regular, he might have signed by now. Why, though would Martinez drop a top class fullback to try and influence a player with potential? In my view, he should grab the chance of first team football and get to Bournemouth right now.

Andy Mack
27 Posted 11/05/2015 at 22:20:02
Finally Roberto comes out with a (once a season) clear statement, that Garbutt's future remains unclear! Maybe he should have been playing this season out on loan, down a division, ready for next season, like what a good manager would have done with a clearly talented young left-back.

Maybe Leeds, who, lest we forget, we truly pissed on by poaching him in the first place. Earning rave reviews and boosting his price for the homegrown moneyÂ’d elite. He IS going to be a player, no doubt. Oh Everton, why do you bless us with three decent left backs, yet only one right back and one striker worth a second glance. Football...

Ray Roche
28 Posted 11/05/2015 at 22:29:36
Scott Hall (#21), "he has looked all season like a player that is approaching the last few years of his career."

Scott, the Baines you describe is the Baines weÂ’ve always had. Without Pienaar heÂ’s only half as effective, weÂ’d be better off trying Baines and Garbutt playing as a pair, that way Garbutt would learn from Baines and both would be getting a game. It should have been tried some time ago which might have made Garbutt happy enough to sign a contract.

Jay Harris
29 Posted 11/05/2015 at 22:42:56
Andy (#26), most people are not suggesting dropping Baines... in fact quite the reverse: we feel that a Baines-Garbutt combination could be just what we need on the left flank.
Jim Hardin
30 Posted 11/05/2015 at 22:27:23
Well, if the 2015-16 kit doesnÂ’t have a jersey with GarbuttÂ’s name on it, we will know, wonÂ’t we. I would leave too if I was him. He could avoid having to play all but one game a season on the infamous Goodison "sticky grass" that has so handicapped poor Barkley per our trusty manager.
Ant Dwyer
31 Posted 11/05/2015 at 23:11:14
CanÂ’t see this lad staying around now or IÂ’m sure a deal would have been long done.
Richard Reeves
32 Posted 11/05/2015 at 22:47:04
ThereÂ’s no excuse, a manager must recognize when a player has to go and when to bring a player through. ItÂ’s up to Roberto to decide if Garbutt is more important than Oviedo and if the lad should've played more games or offered a contract earlier in the season.

Personally, I think it is a major fuck-up by the manager and it doesnÂ’t give me much optimism in bringing through some of these very good young players we have.

Abhishek Saha
33 Posted 12/05/2015 at 04:28:03
I would keep Garbutt and assure him 40% of the matches as game time. Next season is going to be riddled with national call-ups due to Euro16 and we need to be sparingly playing Baines.
Phil Sammon
34 Posted 12/05/2015 at 07:39:26
Garbutt was getting better with every game he didnÂ’t play. He didnÂ’t rip up any trees on Saturday did he?

I watched Garbutt a lot for our U21Â’s and he never really impressed me. He came in and did well though, credit to him. But I still donÂ’t think itÂ’s worth getting our knickers in a twist over. ItÂ’s annoying, but IÂ’m afraid this happens from time to time.

Ian Jones
35 Posted 12/05/2015 at 07:48:37
I seem to remember someone (might have been Colin Glassar) suggesting Baines, Garbutt and Oviedo playing in the same team. Sort of a Holy Triangle.. Would be interesting watching those 3 interchange. Maybe worth a go.
Phil Walling
36 Posted 12/05/2015 at 09:24:36
Garbutt will gain a first team spot at Bournemouth or one of the other promoted Â’no hopersÂ’.

Over-hyped on the back of a few good corners, he is an adequate cover for Baines and the repeatedly injured – but much better player – Oviedo. I wish him well in his quest for a Premier League future.

Colin Glassar
37 Posted 12/05/2015 at 09:58:39
That was me Ian. Unfortunately, Mr Bob doesnÂ’t listen to me. I honestly think that left-sided triangle could work a treat.
Jonathan Benn
38 Posted 12/05/2015 at 10:00:26
Football is a business, not a game. If the opportunity for first team football at another club is out there, it should be taken.

Yes, I think Baines has only 1-2 seasons left at the top. Yes, I think that Garbutt is as good as anything else out there as a replacement. But I think the lad needs to look out for himself and play football if it is on offer.

I want him to stay, but I totally understand that he would want to play every week.

Kevin Elliott
39 Posted 12/05/2015 at 10:08:13
Gerard Carey@24.

I can just see it now.....

Captain Mainwairing in goal, screaming out his orders to Corporal Jones on the left, Godfrey on the right with Sgnt Wilson and Frazier in the middle.

CouldnÂ’t get any more disorganised than that... Or could it?

Andrew Ellams
40 Posted 12/05/2015 at 11:03:19
Kevin, Godfrey would be more mobile than some of the clowns we have now.
Paul Tran
41 Posted 12/05/2015 at 11:37:51
As I said on a previous similar thread. You can use this issue as an excuse to bash Martinez. Or you can confront the reality of a promising and unproven young player effectively asking Martinez to play him ahead of two better, more experienced players.

If weÂ’re looking to seriously rebuild the team, you put him on a better contract and play him. But what if heÂ’s yet another overhyped Everton youngster, not as good as we hoped? HeÂ’ll be another one on a big contract in the reserves and Martinez will get stick for keeping him.

I donÂ’t think heÂ’ll end up at a bigger club than us, but he may well move for more money and games.

I’ll ask the question again – would you play him ahead of Baines and Oviedo?

Pete Edwards
43 Posted 12/05/2015 at 12:36:49
Richard (#32), donÂ’t turn this in to another reason to bash the manager! HowÂ’s it MartinezÂ’s fault if heÂ’s been offered a contract and not yet decided to sign?

And donÂ’t give me itÂ’s because the manager doesnÂ’t play him. As has been stated numerous times, who would get in the team ahead of the current england left back, who I believe still this season has the most assists of any defender in the league!!

Doing so would represent a huge risk for any team.

Trevor Peers
44 Posted 12/05/2015 at 12:34:34
Oviedo is unreliable and personally IÂ’d get rid of him first. DoesnÂ’t look like Roberto agrees and I expect Garbutt to be sold.

Roberto isnÂ’t building up a new squad, new signings will be limited to just 2 and one of them will be a loan signing. The managers statements regarding the older members of the squad tells us what to expect.

WeÂ’ll all be shocked if he is allowed to spend big, without selling first.

Tony Abrahams
45 Posted 12/05/2015 at 12:49:57
Garbutt looks decent, but he also looks like a fullback who canÂ’t defend.

If he leaves, like I suspect, at least he will be showing consistency, having done the same to Leeds a few years ago.

Modern day football is crazy. Some kids havenÂ’t properly made the grade, and yet their bank account is huge!

Phil Walling
46 Posted 12/05/2015 at 13:11:17
The trouble is, Trevor, I donÂ’t trust him to buy....or sell !
James Stewart
47 Posted 12/05/2015 at 13:16:24
@46 That is my biggest concern as well. MartinezÂ’s signings for the most part have been woeful.
Matthew Williams
48 Posted 12/05/2015 at 13:32:10
He shouldÂ’ve played every game this season, he's been the best player after Stones for us. The rest of the squad have been a fucking disgrace, lead by a totally clueless Spaniard and his backroom staff, overseen by a board that is more than happy to have this great club settle for being a teapot team... we're the worldÂ’s nicest club, heading nowhere!

One decent 90-min performance this season!!!... 21 years and counting... and nothing is gonna change anytime soon.

Eddie Dunn
49 Posted 12/05/2015 at 13:53:24
CanÂ’t blame Martinez on this one. He watches them train, and must have decided that Oviedo offers more with his ability to play as a winger. Baines has not been at his best, but he still provides stability, and it is the question of who to play in front of him that is the most vexing.

We havenÂ’t seen enough of Garbutt to really know if he is top class, and remember how loyal Baines was when he could have gone to Man Utd.

Oviedo has always shown great desire to play for us, and I would like him to recover from his latest set-back and have another run in the team. Perhaps the club are at fault for not getting Garbutt to sign a contract last season, but who knows, with agents etc?

Eric Myles
50 Posted 12/05/2015 at 14:06:40
Jonathan (#38), if Chelsea can keep all their bright young hopes and loan them out, why canÂ’t we?
Denis Richardson
51 Posted 12/05/2015 at 13:37:36
If weÂ’re short of funds for new players, then why not sell Baines?

Yes heÂ’s our best LB but heÂ’s only got about 2 years left at the top as it is (and is one of our biggest earners). The club have not been good in the recent past getting rid of players at the right time, hence why we have so may old timers on the books.

Cash in on Baines and give Garbutt a new contract – he can battle with Oviedo for the LB spot and improve. Do Baines a favour as well, let him have a couple of years playing in the CL – Man City will be looking for a LB and could do with increasing their homegrown quota. Win-win, as they say.

Alternatively, Garbutt leaves on a free, followed by Oviedo next summer and in 2 yearsÂ’ time weÂ’re fucked at LB and need to try someone new or spend a lot of money to get someone decent.

Mark Pierpoint
52 Posted 12/05/2015 at 14:13:13
The club probably were happy to wait as his tribunal fee offers the club a fair degree of protection. Tom Ince went for over ٠m, Danny Ings will command ٢m. Admittedly it does not offer the clubs full market rate, but we would get back what we paid for him.

Tony #45 is spot on. The lad is no defender. He can break forward and has got a good set piece on him. He is a fair way off being a regular for a good Premier League club though. If he goes then he will either:

(1) have to move to a ’lesser’ club to get genuine first team football – a promoted club or, more likely Championship;

(2) Get a move to an equivalent of Everton, have to start again and probably be no more certain to play first team football next season; or

(3) stay at Everton, go out on loan (Look at players like Coleman at Blackpool, Bamford at Derby/Â’Boro) get some experience at a good level, then look to break into a PL XI.

If he goes, good luck to him. I know which one I would choose though...

Phil Gardner
53 Posted 12/05/2015 at 16:09:19
Pete Edwards@13:

If Garbutt, capped at every level, walks out of the door for nowt, in my book, itÂ’s comparable to the Gosling fiasco; split hairs all you like. Are you that confident in this management and board to assert that any offer to Garbutt has actually been written down or is just another Â’verbal offer'?

I have no idea how closely or for how long you have followed this club and the morons running it but I’d suggest to you that if the kid walks for nowt – like Gosling did – high Vegas odds it’ll be down to their incompetence.

As for your peculiar speculation that perhaps he wouldnÂ’t get a start at another Premier League club, thatÂ’s a little bit daft too, isnÂ’t it? He only needs to be a 2nd choice left back to be one up the pecking order on Everton, according to Don Quixote who, and this was the point you avoided, was going to go all Philip Lahm with Baines this season... what happened to that bright idea then?

I reckon Garbutt would get a start at several PL clubs, the three coming up for starters. If he Â’does a GoslingÂ’ and walks to another PL club for nowt, then someone at management/board level should pay the price, but donÂ’t hold your breath with this gaggle of gobshites!

Phil Gardner
54 Posted 12/05/2015 at 16:29:56
And why do you assume that Baines must be dropped if GarbuttÂ’s gonna get a game? With Pienaar and Osman in decline, why not move Baines forward (heÂ’s never been a top defender anyway) and perhaps the Â’assistsÂ’ youÂ’re banging on about may increase. Baines can still take corners and free kicks from left midfield canÂ’t he?

Let Garbutt battle it out with the more versatile Oviedo (if he can ever stay fit after that injury) and use Baines more creatively after all, thatÂ’s what Martinez told us he was going to do....

Colin Glassar
55 Posted 12/05/2015 at 16:42:32
Phil Gardner, I completely agree with your second post (#54). IÂ’d move Baines forward and let Oviedo and Garbutt battle it out for LB (IÂ’d play all 3 personally). Where I do disagree with you is Gosling. He was average at best with us and has gone into a steady decline ever since he left Goodison. Hardly a good example to use.
Dan Parker
56 Posted 12/05/2015 at 17:37:47
Slot Garbutt it at left-back, Baines the new Phil Lahm in left-midfield, problem sorted. Nothing short of a disgrace if we let this young man leave.
Ray Roche
57 Posted 12/05/2015 at 18:10:43
We shouldn’t be arguing about whether Baines get’s dropped for Garbutt, or Oviedo plays instead of Garbutt, or whatever – the real problem is a lack of a forward player to link up with Baines.

Without Pienaar Baines looks very average and to get the best out of him Martinez should have resolved that problem, not with Osman or Barkley being played out of position, but with the likes of Garbutt or, when fit, Oviedo linking up with Baines to give us the width and attacking potential that has been missing almost all season.

No wonder Baines has been a shadow of his former self, half of his powers have been negated by lack of help down the left. How many times has Baines run down the left then stop and pass back to Jags because there is no Everton player with whom he can exchange passes ? And Martinez clearly hasnÂ’t the nous to see it.

Dave Abrahams
58 Posted 12/05/2015 at 18:30:10
Ray Roche, nothing but the truth there Ray,and as you say why canÂ’t Martinez see it, plenty of fans can.
Andy Crooks
59 Posted 12/05/2015 at 18:46:32
How is it a disgrace if we let this guy leave? If he doesnÂ’t want to stay and fight for a place, doesnÂ’t want to accept the deal he has been offered, then good luck to him.
Phil Gardner
60 Posted 12/05/2015 at 18:51:20
Andy, as I’ve already said, if this kid walks for nowt, à la Gosling, would you put your money on a fuck-up/derisory Everton offer or that the club have given him assurances and a sensible offer to stay? I know where my money would be going.

I find it odd that Martinez talked up the Lahm role for Baines and now, having let this kidÂ’s contract almost run out, Baines (and the seldom fit Oviedo) as specialist left-backs are the excuses being lined up for him strolling away for free. This is a 21-year-old Englishman capped at every level from U16-U21.

I suppose thatÂ’s okay though, because Pete Edwards and a minority on here donÂ’t think heÂ’d get a game at any other PL club... Tell me how you are really going to feel if, as has been suggested, he takes the short walk across the park and Everton, having paid a handsome fee for him from Leeds, get frig all for him?

Dave Lawley
61 Posted 12/05/2015 at 19:38:17
Why not play Baines in the number 10 role? He always looks good around the opposition box, always looking to play someone in and reward the runner, he can score a goal and has a wicked shot on him, his number of assists from left back are excellent, his free kicks are excellent, he should still be taking the penoÂ’s and youÂ’d have the first No 10 in history who could actually tackle.

Martinez reckons he needs to look abroad for a No 10, fuck that try Baines in there. IÂ’d rather see him there than as a deep-lying midfielder.

Dave Lawley
62 Posted 12/05/2015 at 19:59:41
And keep/play Garbutt for left-back I meant to put at the end....
Phil Gardner
63 Posted 13/05/2015 at 09:36:30
Colin @55

IÂ’m not comparing the relative footballing talents of Gosling and Garbutt, IÂ’m comparing the fact that, for whatever reasons, they both were/may be allowed to leave for absolutely free. Gosling, incidentally, was a very highly regarded, multi-capped (U17-U21) Englishman. His progress was hindered by an injury and he was on the verge of a possible breakthrough. Garbutt like Gosling will probably sign for another PL team.

Gosling’s ’decline’ is neither here nor there, Colin (injury ravaged career too), the comparison is appropriate: both English, both capped through to U21 level and both, feasibly, fucking off while Everton (thru utter incompetence where Gosling was concerned) don't get a cent. All-in-all, pretty galling at a time when – if you're young, English and at an EPL club – you're an expensive asset...

Anthony Jones
64 Posted 13/05/2015 at 11:52:05
If Luke leaves, itÂ’s the final straw for me. Top player who will be close to the England squad for many years to come. Baines is already struggling to affect games as he has in the past.

Interesting that Martinez was eager to point to the future with respect to Distin & Stones, but Garbutt apparently needs to buy into a development plan. No doubt Gareth Barry will play every week next season. The favouritism is nauseating.

James Royston
65 Posted 13/05/2015 at 13:25:30
I would like him to stay but he appears to have had enough and seems to have decided to move on, with a very strong hint from many quarters of him just crossing the park. Though there will be others very interested. A new or different manager may have a better influence on him???
Jim Hardin
67 Posted 13/05/2015 at 15:33:31
Intereting points (I am trying to be kind) on here about moving a proven and established left back in favor of an unproven and replaceable left back. Oh by the way, the left back who is established is the starting England left back.

For those of you so desperate to see more of Garbutt (I have seen enough to judge IMO he is replaceable), why not move him into the left mid position slot into which you so want to cram Baines? He is less defensively capable than Baines and several of you have already elevated him to a world class free kick specialist (not sure based upon what though).

Quite the way to treat a loyal player, Baines, by telling him to fuck off and play a different position. This in order to sign a player who, if better, wonÂ’t be at Everton long... and, if not, weakens the defense further.

Gavin Johnson
68 Posted 13/05/2015 at 15:48:00
Man United paid something like 㿊M for Luke Shaw – a ridiculous amount for a one-season wonder at Saints. For all the silliness of the fee, it does put it into perspective on how we should fight tooth and nail to keep Garbutt.

From what I’ve seen of Shaw and Garbutt, I don’t think there’s that much between them – both are a similar age, both are better going forward. Everton can’t afford to lose a player that potentially has a huge sell-on value.

In regards to moving Baines or Garbutt out of position. I said on numerous threads that I’d like to see Garbutt played ahead of Baines as more of a winger – especially when Mirallas and Oviedo were injured... It never happened and seems unlikely to now. While Martinez has talked of playing Baines more centrally and played him in a couple of games (I thought he played well in this position at St James Park) so I’d like to see this happen again.

ItÂ’s not about being disloyal to Baines. I want our best players played in the same side. I think Baines could do a better job than Naismith playing behind Rom, and no worse than Barry (in the deeper role) who has played gash for large parts of the season, although he has been playing since our exit from all the cup competitions.

Mike Oates
69 Posted 13/05/2015 at 16:18:15
I think you are all overhyping him. Good going forward, set pieces particularly but defensively heÂ’s worse than Baines and that is saying something. Of all the thee of them, Oviedo is the better player but looks like he could well be another sicknote.

Matt Williams
70 Posted 13/05/2015 at 22:42:08
Last summer I would never have thought I would say what IÂ’m going to. IÂ’d sell Baines and get Garbutt in the team next season.

This is probably the last year that weÂ’d get 㾶-㾸M for Baines and weÂ’ve already got his replacement. We then use that money to improve other areas of the squad.

Peter McHugh
71 Posted 13/05/2015 at 23:19:20
To think of selling Baines is madness. He is a Rolls Royce. Whilst heÂ’s not in same league as Maldini I can see Baines playing for as long as him and I want to see him in playing in blue for as long as possible.
Matt Williams
72 Posted 13/05/2015 at 23:26:44
Peter, his best years are behind him and we might lose a lad who to seems an ideal replacement for him. Finances being what they are sell him and use the money else where.
Ian Smitham
73 Posted 13/05/2015 at 23:42:34
Ray Roche #57, exactly right. The Pienaar/Baines combo has really worked well. They compliment each other and get the best of each other.

On the other side, I guess we are looking at a similar thing with Coleman and Lennon.

The club does have a dilemma here as Garbutt looks good and a Back Four of Coleman, Browning, Stones and Garbutt sounds great to me.

Whether they can all make it and with respect to the present people, remains to be seen.

I think it was 1993 maybe 1994 I was sat in Top Balcony and watched a game with a lot of young players in it, and I thought these players could be a group to put me out of the misery of watching the Bingham/Lee years .

Just maybe, with Ross, Macca, Besic, and Lukako, there is a young team in there.

Or maybe I am deluded.

Andy Crooks
74 Posted 14/05/2015 at 00:35:32
Ian, what have you seen of Browning and Garbutt to suggest they will make part of a great back four? Ideally we would keep Garbutt and see if he becomes good enough to replace Baines. Right now, though, we have the England left back who seems to me to epitomize all that is good about Everton.

The problem now is the fear that in five years time Garbutt will be a top class left back playing elsewhere.We pay big money to employ staff who can solve this problem. If they canÂ’t then thatÂ’s a different debate.

Also, I have seen enough over the years of players being shoehorned into positions that donÂ’t suit just to get them in the managers favourite. LetÂ’s keep Baines where he is best and let Garbutt decide whatÂ’s best for him.

Graham Mockford
75 Posted 14/05/2015 at 11:15:52
Mike Oates

Oviedo is a better player than Baines? IÂ’ve read some shite on here in my time but that about tops it.

He has made 11 PL starts in his whole Everton career over three years. Did I miss something?

IÂ’ll repeat what I said on another thread, the best full back at this club in nearly 50 years.

David Graves
76 Posted 14/05/2015 at 13:48:18
"Garbutt was getting better with every game he didn't play."– Agree completely.

"Best full back in nearly 50 years." – Agree again.

However: "Baines as Number 10." – Sorry, can't see that one.

Matthew Williams
77 Posted 14/05/2015 at 13:59:28
To my namesake: sell Baines!? – that ship has sailed. His transfer value may have fallen but his value to the team hasn’t. Play him centrally next to Mo as he can still pass a ball and would provide the FOWARD passes that our strikers can feed off.

Garbutt and Browning HAVE to start next season. We have to build with the limited funds we have. It will be a long hard slog but the next 5 years are fucking write-offs for me... so build NOW.

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