Everton Must Stand Firm Over Precious Stones

We sold a player recognised as the best of his generation, and soon to be the highest England international goalkeeper, for a couple of million less than a divisive defensive goon, Ferdinand, and the manager appeared to be just as lacking in funds afterwards.

At least when Liverpool sell a decent player, they get a decent return. Everton’s board appears to be rather like the 18th-Century Pacific islanders, dazzled by a few beads and knives worth next to nothing, and hand over whatever is requested without the slightest understanding that they are being taken to the cleaners.

I suspect Stones knows that his career would be much better if he stayed at a successful Everton (not so sure about the one that we saw last year), and might wind up a decent club (Barcelona, Real Madrid, or something in Germany or Italy) with a Gareth Bales-type price tag rather than a soulless grinding machine in West London which will win the increasingly meaningless Premier League once or twice but nothing on a bigger stage.

Last year’s Premiership was about as exciting as semolina - in some ways the year before with Liverpool breaking into the top was refreshing - although I can only say that from the safe distance of a over one season. Next years will be crap too.

Ossie’s book showed us how little importance Roberto attaches to defending. As long as that’s so, the giant, gaping problem in the back is Stones.

Let’s hope his reputation as "one for the future" sustains itself thru this next season. Another like his last one won’t do. For us or his selling price.

We have to have a statement of intent that we are not going to allow the monied teams to swallow up all the talent and leave the rest of the league making up the numbers.

It is time we said Coleman, Stones, McCarthy and Barkley are not available at any price while they are under contract at EFC.

If we have any ambition at all to challenge at the top we need to maintain our stance.

It is vital that our talented young players start to believe that it can be done at Everton. If three decent players arrive soon then we might look like a team going places and be less likely to have our good players tempted away.

I hope this goes same way as Baines and Coleman to Man Utd. You build a team from a position of strength and Stones is the means to provide that. On a par with Ratcliffe at the same age. We went somewhere then!

I remember watching a nature film where a man came upon a silver-back gorilla in a jungle clearing. The man stood still, while the gorilla stepped out of the brush and announced his presence with a very menacing posture and vocals. The man continued to stand quietly and calmly while the gorilla crept closer. The animal got louder wailing and screaming, thumping his chest before charging at the man with incredible speed and rage. The man kept his position as the gorilla closed in threatening to crush him, but suddenly at the very last second; the gorilla stopped. He looked at the man who continued to calmly stand his ground. The gorilla then slowly crept away and back into the jungle. The man had called the animal's bluff, and was able to walk away unscathed.

If Chelsea are indeed acting like an 800lb gorilla, then we need to be that man. Just like we were with Baines. Just like we were with Coleman.

But times are different. We have a squad capable of things. We don’t need a massive rebuild. We need to add a young gem every season that improves our starting 11, ie, McCarthy 2 years ago; Lukaku last season... Deulofeu this one.

If we continue building on our solid foundations in this way, then there are brighter times ahead.

Stones is a no-go if we ever hope to achieve anything!

I’m guilty of the paranoia myself as I’ve said before that I expect a big money sale to generate money for the manager which doesn’t seem to be available at the moment. If he doesn’t want to go, we shouldn’t sell; it’s as simple as that... his value isn’t going to decrease.

It wasn’t a fairytale; it was a very real scene with that man, and like him; I really believe we are capable of fending Chelsea off.

What aggravates me is that Chelsea is going to try and pull every dirty trick in the book to get John. Naturally the press will love it because it’s Chelsea/Jose and they’ll be able to get away every tactic regardless of how nefarious they are.

I think we have to focus on the tried and true; the other guy can't win if he can't score. Team defense.

We have possession of the ball? Attack, attack, attack.

It all starts with defending. And Ossie's book keeps me nervous. What, exactly, is Stones learning?

I have to admit I’m starting to think about smiling again. We have seemingly seen interest off from Man Utd for Coleman. We look like we have put the McCarthy talk to bed. We have told Chelsea to whistle over Stonesy. There’s been limited response to any speculation around Ross Barkley and Lukaku.

On top of all the above, we’ve been able to bring the age of the squad down as we needed to do in binning Alcaraz and Distin while bringing in Cleverly and Deulofeu. We've started to see signs of genuine promise from Galloway, Browning and McAleny. Not too shabby seeing as we're not even in August yet.

Next up, I’d like to see us purchase Shaqiri and a few good surprises, and then I think I can genuinely say I can begin the season feeling optimistic once again.

Come on, Blue Boys, make the fans happy, we deserve it.

If we resist the money and look to our long-term future, it's possible we could have a new Labone (nb: I don't make that comparison lightly).

If he is with us 5 years from now, I can see a confident, calm, canny centre-half, about a stone heavier, bossing his defence.

I should add that given the near-sighted, hopeless amateur clowns who 'run' our club, I see only the beaten, bruised, black and blue figure of a man who has had the shit kicked out of him by a large gorilla.

If it’s not this year it will be next year that we accept a huge bid for our best players be it Stones, Barkley, Lukaku, Coleman etc.... they are all great young players who at some point will want to win things (hopefully at Everton).

Gone are the days of players like Le Tissier who want to stay at a club forever, however successful they are. Stones strikes me as a lovely bloke who won’t push for a deal and is loyal to Everton but there is a breaking point.... we get offered a very good return on our investment or his head eventually gets turned because he’s not winning anything!

The issue therefore falls back on the club!

So far Martinez had said we are not interested in a striker and we are going with youth for example etc... Can’t blame Martinez because, if he was given £100 mill to spend, he would spend it. If you wanted new golf clubs, bike or a laptop and your wife gave you a grand you wouldn’t spend 500 quid and give the rest back. Clearly we have nothing to spend; hence the lack of investment and the Martinez comments.

Hence the bottom line: sell at the best price and reinvest. The problem is... we won’t reinvest... and that is why... as a club... we will stand still or go backwards! We will sell for a good price (Lescott, Fellaini etc.. ) but then go and buy those cheap second-hand golf clubs!!!!!

And that's why I suspect that keeping him is a battle that we will lose. I just can't see us in that kind of position in the next 5 years.

I'd love us to keep him and challenge at the very top. I just hope that if we do sell him that we finally get a decent fee... this one should really be setting records.

Fail to meet the price, he stays. That must be our position. Firmness.

All players have their value, and Stones is replaceable in terms of immediate needs (despite Martinez being less than trustworthy in terms of signing defenders).

The fact he is English pushes his value up 50%.

This is the football world we live in, unfortunately. We must play the game as best we can.

It would also be crazy too sell now as we already need another centre back ready to challenge the first 11. Can you imagine how much two centre halves will cost us a month before the new season starts if we only have Jags?

Lyndon has his price spot on -- we’re talking about potentially England’s future captain who currently costs us only £30k per week and has 4 years of his contract left.

For the record, I hope we don’t sell even for £50M plus and Chris I believed the story first time but it was like listening to a fairytale just like it would be if I heard we reject a £50M bid.

We have to keep Stones. The younger blues absolutely adore him. His sale would have a demoralising effect on the fan-base.

Do not sell this boy.

I agree, in today's climate £50 million not a penny less.

Why you would want to play for a club as classless as Chelsea with obnoxiously impatient support also is beyond me. I was John Stones I would get my head down try and improve more at Everton then wait for maybe a Barcelona or a Bayern Munich to come knocking in a few years.

Gerry Deulofeu came back to this club because (imo) he sees that there is a good young team beginning to take shape, Stones wants to stay for the same reason. We have Garbutt committing himself to our club, when he could so easily have chosen another Premier League side and it looks like the top senior players are content here. So don’t be dreaming about who we could buy with the money if we flogged him. That would be like selling a diamond for a bagful of bling!

Fuck Chelsea right off, with their pathetic view that they can just come along and offer this club less than we paid for Rommy... and that is no disrespect to Rom either. If they offer £50 mill, or any bid, chase them.

It will make more of a statement that Stonesy has 4 years on his contract, is not for sale and that is how derisory EFC made of Chelsea

You will have to watch what your saying though, because you are almost finding words of praise for our manager!

However, despite a rubbish last season, I’m confident the squad only needs a couple of additions to push for top four and a domestic cup (which must be our aim for the season).

The team needs to be built around McCarthy, Barkley (who I think will break through this year), Lukaku (who I hope has been working on his first touch), and most of all Stones.

I am against any of these players going, full stop, for the next few seasons.

This is now an existential matter. Are we, as a club, to grow and develop or are we to be a mere feeder club for our richer opponents?

To be or not to be, that is the question, Billy Boy. You stood tall over Bainsey (despite Sam Wallace in The Independent going into hysterical breakdown on national TV) so grow a pair and do the same now. The club is at a crossroads. We can keep this squad together and grow or we can start selling our best players, keep your bankers happy and accept small club status for the foreseeable future.

This is the most united I have seen Evertonians on a topic for years!

IF Stones pushes to leave then accept a stupid price.. but if he doesnt.. then price is inconsequential and he stays. That would go a long way for me to restore the image and respect we have for our Chairman post Rooney et al.

As much as I wouldn’t want him to leave I think that’s realistically as tough as we can be if he wants the move.

Having said that, if the board stand firm and refuse any offers some of my faith will be restored. The problem now is whether Stones's head has been turned.

Unfortunately, every player has their price, We should follow Liverpool’s stance with fees to be fair. Pluck a ridiculous figure out of the air say £60mil and tell them this is the price, not a penny less so until you come back with this offer, the kid has four years left on his deal so go and fuck off.

Soon, if not already, we shall have a top league in which all bar five or six clubs will be doing no more than making up the numbers with the likes of Everton, Southampton and Villa existing merely as 'preparatory schools' for Sky's 'big' clubs.

A quick look at the Premier League table at the end of its first season (1992-93) shows that Villa, Norwich, Blackburn and QPR occupied positions 2-5 and, of course, Blackburn went to the very top the season after. What hope of that EVER happening again?

So as we worry as to whether the migration of talents such as Stones and McCarthy will see our club 'feeding the beast' in the manner that the Saints and Villains have done this summer, let us spare a plaintive thought for those days when England didn't boast 'the greatest league in the world'. Bah!

If he stays, do we have to try to match that or even find some compromise between what he’s on now and what may be available elsewhere? Does that then lead to the rest of the squad wanting parity with what John Stones is on?

Sadly, without the same personalities, this may be a déjà vu of the Lescott situation and we simply have to resign ourselves to him leaving whilst extracting top dollar for him.

Players come and players go in this League. We have the European powerhouses and unfortunately, the rest are of the teams become feeder clubs. We are a big enough club to have been a major force, but our owners and ’be careful what you wish for’ supporters all keep us in our place.

It’s the reason why Everton have sell their players that winds me up. It’s so the millionaires can hold on to their ’asset’ without any investment of their own, or plans to make us competitive. "Club we deserve" our new motto.

As very much an old timer, my visits to Goodison get less frequent every year although I do subscribe indirectly via Sky. But I don't have too much of a conscience as gate money has become almost inconsequential these days.

Surely, only the billionaires can do as you wish although with the level of income forever going up, the club should, at least, 'wipe its nose.'

And they're going to ease the rules now, there’s a surprise...

ps: Who said we require a billionaire? If you want to build a straw man, please don’t quote me on something I have never posted -- thanks.

Very good post telling it like it is in today’s top league. I, like you think it is a very sad state of affairs, and long gone are the days when it was a very equal league with numerous clubs having a chance of winning a trophy.

I think in the long run it will drive more fans away from football than it attracts, there is little sign of this now with attendances on the increase but it is slowly getting more boring as each season passes.

Unfortunately, the same people are still in charge - three failed ground moves later and no trophies.

That of course is a key question.

Even if the club could/do say 'no!', if his agent can get his wages from £30-35k to £70-100k (and trophies), it makes keeping him even harder (impossible?)

Feels as though ultimately it'll be down to the lad himself and possibly our best/only chance of keeping him is repetition of the line - "You'll spend the next five years on the bench and your England career will be over before it started'

It's funny what happens when you take the name 'Everton' out of the equation, then think 'what would I do?"

If you're/we're honest, we should ask ourselves what we would do in this scenario..

Okay, you're a good young player who plays for your local side who are (for no reason) Brentford.

Villa come in for you and you move there and play for their reserves.

Good performances and injuries to older players see you get into the first team and you play well enough to keep your place.

Things are going well and you're selected for England.

You sign a deal with Villa giving you £30k a week.

Then Chelsea come in, they want you and will pay you £90k a week.

Question, why wouldn't you go?

I think the best we can do is offer him a new contract at whatever our upper pay rate is (£60k per week?) and convince him staying here for 5 years is better for his development. His agent may be suggesting otherwise, I suspect, as he will be seeing £-signs from his commission.

If we do sell -- and I don’t think £40M is unreasonable if Sterling went for £49M and if Man City enter the fray -- we must include a buy-back clause in the contract so, if it goes pear-shaped -- as it well might do, à la Rodwell at Man City -- we can get him back for a snip.

You don't go to Chelsea for £90k a week because you know you'll simply not play. And it puts your career on not as solid a footing.

So you negotiate with Villa and get your wages up to £60k, stay put, and still play. Thereby increasing the likelihood, as your career continues on an upward trend, that another of Chelsea, Man City, Man Utd et al, come back in two years offering £125k a week.

Question, why wouldn't you go?"

Hmm, that is a tough one Eugene, and I can think of only one answer:

Because (being a young lad, moving away to the big bad capital, all on your own) they believe it would be highly beneficial and in the best interests of both parties, for you to stay with a caring, considerate, 'host family', who can help you acclimatise to life in a modern, multi-cultural, socially diverse, urban sprawl and, as such, have secured you the very best digs possible: The spare bedroom in John Terry's Mam and Dad's house.

"Ok Roman you can have Stones for £50 million but we want Mourinho as well -- and we want you to pay his wages for all the time he is here"

I think most Evertonians would accept this scenario!

Agree and disagree.

Agree that is what most likely what would happen, disagree that is the conclusion a confident young England international would come to.

He has, in the last couple of years, come through all his professional 'tests' and probably (with some justification) would think 'I'll do what I did at Villa, I'll get a chance and grab it with both hands and play plenty of games... and I'll be £20M (over 5 years) better off and in the CL and winning stuff."

He'd probably add "I would like to thank Aston Villa Football Club, particularly the supporters who have shown me..." etc.

I believe to relax and encourage young players, the Terrys have put a sign on the bedroom door.

'The Winston Bogarde Suite'.

(mind you, with Mr Terry Sr in the house, I'm sure there would be quite a few beak-loving PL stars who'd pay handsomely for that room)

And while there has been a notable improvement in the boards flurry into the transfer market since the arrival of RM, (well to be fair, it couldn’t really've got any worse!!), I’d be surprised if all the money that the club got for Stones ended up being made available for RM to buy more defensive midfielders, or players he can play out of position, or in a system that doesn’t suit them.

However, I just get the feeling that even if Martinez is upset and doesn’t want to sell, the board will deal behind the scenes and squeeze as much money as they can.

I hope we don’t sell as Stones is great to watch and will only get better but also the money wouldn’t be reinvested into the playing squad.

Worrying times ahead.

I love Stones and think is well on the way to becoming the classiest centre back in the premier league but im pretty sure the shambles we call the board will happily grab the 40/50 million and then give RM 20 million to rebuild....

Then the backlash will start with quotes in the media saying Stones forced the move and some pleb getting quoted saying "Bill was on the phone 24/7 begging him to stay but he refused".

We've seen it all before under the stewardship of BB.

I live in hope that he is a blue on 1st September.

I believe this can be done without selling our "special players"... We must not sell to anyone!... unless Stones wants to leave.... And if this happens, all we do is get the best deal possible, and wish the lad all the best!

If we could get £35M, I would be tempted as it would mean a replacement and a top quality playmaker, call it doing a Southampton. However, if the club hold fire for a year and he goes and stars at the Euros, we can add another £10M to the price.

If we had a chairman that would give the money to the manager and a manager who knew a decent keeper, playmaker, defender or striker if one collided with him, I’d think about agreeing with you.

Bill does not need the money -- we stood firm on Baines/Coleman. Stones himself is happy at EFC and learning from Jags.

RM will stand firm no doubt. Stones is not going to rock the boat or push for a transfer this season.

There may be more bids and shenanigans, however Mourinho is making it even more difficult for Bill or RM to concede with his public comments.

Remind ourselves of OFM’s comments and the resistance that brought about.

Stay calm and carry on. Look at the 5-7 young players coming together to build and emerging side in the next 2 years.

Eventually Chelsea, Man City and Maybe Man Utd will buy all the decent players and the league is effectively pointless!

I would love Stones to stay but I'm not building my hopes up like I used to do! It's coming to a point where it's pointless teams like Everton having good players as the money club bullies just take them away!

Now, purely on a human level, why would he uproot himself and move to London where he’s not guaranteed to play anyway? We have to assume that the manager has spoken to him about it, the players will have spoken to him about it too and surely the club will have told him whether or not they want to sell him?

I can’t believe that players, managers and clubs don’t have these conversations with players, especially young ones, when bids come in. I get the feeling (as many others do) that John Stones is a smart, down-to-earth kid who knows which way his bread is buttered. So, unless Everton tell him he’s for sale, I find it hard to see him agitating for a move down south.

Our squad seem like a tight-knit bunch who get along and enjoy each other's company so I don’t see any reason why he would suddenly want to leave. I’m rambling a bit, but as I see it, Everton are the ones who can make this decision in it’s entirety.

I think this is a defining moment in the life/nay history of Everton FC.

We have arrived at the stage where I believe we have a pretty decent manager despite last season’s fiasco. We also have the makings of a pretty stable team with better players than we have had for a long time.

We have a regular source of income if we can stay in the higher echelons of the Premier League AND we have a fan base that are crying out for evidence that the BoD share their vision of future glories.

Selling our best assets will not go down well with our long-suffering supporters and as has been previously stated on here -- THIS is the time to stand firm in the eye of the storm and show that we are a force to be reckoned with.

This is our destiny NSNO - COYB

The attacking movement in his play must be a motivation for the rest of the team going forward in the future or we run the risk of losing him. This season, we must show that going forward rather than side to side or back is what we need. Stones gives that example in everything he does.

The board need to resist all advances from other clubs and build on the assets we have.

It makes me want to puke!

If all the best players just play for four teams and they win everything, whats the point in even watching football at all.

TalkSport just seem to be there to upset players who play for clubs like ours.

One thing I did notice though. When it came down the move for Sterling to Man City, Talkshite couldn't get enough ex-RS players sprouting 1,000 reasons why Sterling should stay. It's been the same for Spud as well.

I really hope we keep JS now cos if we do and after the window shuts, I hope everyone bells TalkSport and gives them shite.

I know I will, I'm sick to death of those "Flowery twats"

Frankly, if we can gouge them price wise I can live with it. He's a very promising central defender, but if we can get upwards of £30million then that frees up potential the kind of wider improvement we need throughout the squad; and potentially gives an opportunity for the likes of either Browning or Galloway to get more playing time.

Money talks. We can't offer European soccer. We don't offer as much money in wages. We aren't winning trophies like Chelsea. We aren't as big a name as Chelsea (say what you want about our history but the fact is they are a bigger club in soccer terms now for most players).

Selling John Stones might be seen as another move that will present as as a small club, but it doesn't need to be like that. Even clubs like Man Utd or Bayern sometimes can't keep their players, but their focus is not on crying and moaning but reacting and buying quality players and showing to the footballing world that they are the ones who made great business.

I am sure you remember the situation with Lescott. He was excellent player for us, but selling him to Man City for £24 million was a great deal. Our problem was handling that situation. We should have gone out in public and internally and said, "Hey this is great job, we are satisfied and we will bring in 2-3 great players." Instead of that, we made horror story, portraying Lescott as a devil, and our club as poor old house who is falling apart.

I am much more worried that we are still playing with 2 defensive midfielders than selling our centre-back. We can have Messi and Neymar, but with this midfield set up, we wouldn't be among top 4. That is showing our intent. We have excellent players but we are not maximizing their potential and that is the spot where we need to show our ambition, our creativity.

And one more thing, I like Stones but I very much doubt that he will become a top, top defender because he is slow and that can hardly be improved.

Aside from that, he has fantastic positional awareness and when he fills out a bit will be some kind of Barrier.

This is the fulcrum of a future team....

Only way the rest of the contract is waived normally is by the player requesting a transfer and then ironically being labelled a greedy traitor.

At least that's my understanding... I've not read Stones's contract.

We all know the results of other players leaving Everton and sit on the bench for their new club, pockets full of cash and a growing fat ass (arse). Simply ask the player in private with the captain and manager, does he want to stay or go!

£35 million – deal or no deal.

The fact is that at his stage of development, Stones needs to play thirty games next season. If he goes to Chelsea, he will probably play half that. Jack Rodwell's development was stunted by going to Manchester City too early in his evolution as a player – 16 matches in two seasons – and, frankly, Raheem Sterling's development probably will be set back too, not that I care what happens to him. Hang tough, blues!

I hope Jags etc are having a word in Stones's ear to balance Cahill's comments. First comparing Bolton with Everton is a bit dodgy. Second, for every Cahill, there is a Filipe Luis, Mohamed Salah, Juan Cuadrado, and even further back, Kevin de Bruyne, whom Jose loved then tossed aside. So sometimes it's a "be careful for what you wish for" deal.

If he is way underpaid despite his 4-year contract, Everton need to pay Stones more dosh, to incentivize him to hang on for the season at least. His value is not going to go down and if we truly don’t need the revenue from a transfer at the very least it gives Martinez the time to buy a replacement without the inflated price, that Everton will otherwise incur, if we need a rush replacement with £30+ million from a Stones transfer in this Transfer window. Obviously no Blue wants Stones to leave... he's class, but in today's world, who the hell knows what's going to happen?