The Need for Caution in Protest

As soon as it was announced about the banner, you just knew Everton would not lose the game.

We can't legislate for how next Sunday's game will go or how well or not our team will perform, but should it go pear-shaped on the pitch, it would be churlish to blame the protesters for that eventuality, unless of course they happen to pull off an over the top stunt that interferes with the game - which to my mind would be ill-advised and foolish of them if they did such a thing. I'm pretty certain that by the time the game kicks-off all of the supporters focus will be on helping Everton achieve a memorable result, I just wish we could transfer the enthusiasm of the 4,000 travelling fans of yesterday to the 35,000+ who will be at Goodison next week.

The turgid, monotonous approach which has been employed at Goodison, with two defensive midfielders in EVERY game from the off, only serves to frustrate the crowd who know, who have SEEN, just how good we can be when we play on the front foot instead of wasting half the game passing slowly sideways and backwards while the opposition have time to form two banks of four in front of us. I am fed up of professional managers stating "we knew they would be hard to break down... Blah blah blah" especially when said team know exactly how we are going to play, yet the game plan never changes until at least 65 minutes have been negated!

If the team went for the win straight from the first minute and gave 100% (the minimum that any professional footballer should employ), then the crowd is onside and will forgive the errors. It does work both ways and I have personally heard some moronic and vitriolic tosh from supporters who seem to like to castigate our players before the visitors, this obviously does not help and quite frankly I feel ashamed by the bigotted and undereducated bellends who think being louder than others makes up for their lack of intelligence.

One fantastic performance on the pitch does not erode just how poor we have been for 16 years off it; it is crucial that these are defined as SEPERATE issues. The angst shown towards the team is completely different to the board. The team/tactics/performances can change from the 1st to the 90th minute yet sleepwalking into the Sky TV windfall whilst single-handedly selling off every non-human and tangible asset we had which would of made us a more attractive sales proposition is the ONLY tactic endorsed by the majority shareholders, including Bill Kenwright. 16 years of continual disappointment, players sold, training grounds sold, revenue outsourced. Lie after lie after lie brushed under the carpet at every start of an uprising with the team’s latest 3 points, this is the mindset we HAVE to change.

The op reminds me of an oft used ToffeeWeb phrase; "Be careful what you wish for" to which I would answer ,"I wish for a tangible future and sound business strategy for Everton FC" something the current incumbents have grossly not delivered for far far too long. Vive la revolution.

The 'local media' have steadfastly refused to give the current disenchantment with the club's owners, ANY exposure whatsoever, despite assurances a couple of months ago from the Echo chief of staff, that they would listen to the fans, since then, silence.

This 'board' deserve all the bad publicity they get I'm afraid.

Change doesn't come without some level of discomfort.

Everton Board OUT - Plane fund

This of course is for a club that has enjoyed the riches of being the the Premier League since its inception. For a club of Everton's standing to have a home with the facilities of Goodison Park in 2015 is an absolute disgrace, and that alone shows the repetitive failure of Everton's board and Chairman throughout the Premier League period.

Kings Waterfront Brochure [pdf]

For them to now say it is not possible is unbelievable.

'While the young England international (Barkley) was tearing Southampton apart, some Everton fans seemed more interested in expressing their lack of support for chairman Bill Kenwright, which I found strange.'

Do these clowns not realise that those who protest do so BECAUSE they love the club and fear for its future. I mean, agree or disagree with the cause, but how else can fans have their say particularly when the local press flat refuse to highlight the issue?

Staggering ignorance.

What is the alternative? Smile and watch us sink?

Other posters are also correct that these are separate issues. One of the problems the BU faced first time round was we were doing "alright" at the time, and some fans thought it was disruptive (even though the protests were held outside the stadium).

It's fine if you think Bill is doing a great job, but recognise that there are those who don't - who think stagnation is the biggest challenge we face, and it is their right to protest within the boundaries of the legal system.

It just means I have to switch off the radio now whenever someone from either viewpoint phones in, as the first thing they say is "Previous caller in favour/against Kenwright doesn't speak for me..." usually followed by "I think I speak for the majority when I say..."

'Sake.

The crowd knows that passing the ball around without putting any pressure on the opponents’ defence is not the way to win, and it’s also extremely boring to watch. You could say it’s a passion killer, so the home crowd lacking the passion of the away support is understandable. If Everton attacked, made chances and got the crowd going, Goodison would rock, week-in & week-out, no matter who the opposition.

With this week’s game being against Man City though, I would expect both team and crowd to be up for it and to avoid the problems we face against the smaller teams. Big games bring out the best in both.

I disagree with your "since Xmas" remark though, because I thought we were very hard to watch for most of last season.

We all love winning, but we also go to Goodison to be entertained, and watch "our team" have a really good go. If we carry on playing like we did on Saturday, it won’t be long before the smiles and the noise return.

I wrote on Saturday that there’s two separate issues: the team and the Board.

The Board in my view have done bugger all in bringing this club back to the status of one of the top clubs in England. They have invested nothing in the ground, other than licks of paint and essential works.

The funding of the team as been pathetic and the commercial activities are bettered by the activities on the stalls at Paddy’s market.

Not only have we nothing left to sell, except players, we are renting (outlaying money we borrow) our training facilities, we have outsourced everything else and on top of all that, the Chairman has used or abused the shareholders' meetings as it as suited him.

From the Kings Dock to now, it has been a succession of missed opportunities and some would say untruths told to the shareholders and fans alike.

The trouble is now (though I think he ought to have sold up years ago but he likes the train set to much), the board will have difficulty in selling for the amount it is allegedly asking for. (The figure of £200 million has been mentioned...)

I don’t see how the board will get anything other than their money back (accounted for inflation), if they have any interest whatsoever in the wellbeing of this club. Whether it would have (still might) work or not is a moot point but what about a rights issue, or selling shares in the club to get more funding in? Instead... Nothing!

As for the team and the delicate situation of ensuring that any protest against the Board does not get portrayed as a criticism of the team.

I’ve read the post about going to Goodison as customers and to be entertained and to me that is an alien way of looking at supporting our team.

I think that booing our team and in particular a young lad who is an Evertonian, loves the club and plays for it, is totally counter-productive.

I listen to away supporters at the end of the Bullens Road singing away about it’s like playing in a Library or "Do you want us to sing a song for you" and the best we can do is a deafening silence. But I’d rather that than booing your own team.

I think there’s plenty of occasions when we've been exasperated but I also think that booing just gives out a massive negative message to our players. If they aren’t playing well, it’s getting to the stage where they expect to be booed by their own fans. No wonder the players freeze, or are scared to get the ball.

I thought the fans at Southampton were absolutely brilliant and I’ll bet the majority of them were dubious about the result as they were grabbing their sarnies and climbing on there coaches at god knows what unearthly hour to go down to Southampton.

So, for me, to boo any one of our players, like the miserable get does behind me, is sending out a message which does nothing but become a destructive force. I fucking hate it. All it does is give the opposition a great big lift with the opposite effect on our players.

I do recognise that others see the effect of booing our players differently from me.

http://www.efcsa.org/wp-content/uploads/Everton%20accounts/

Look for Colour Kings Waterfront Brochure 7th bullet down.

That brochure of the Kings Dock stadium brings back such a feeling of the hope then, of our club having the best site in the Country, if not Europe.

Even the proposed redevelopments of Goodison would have been a massive step forward for us.

Amazing how during the Kirkby misadventure, those plans disappeared under the carpet.

Instead of banners, raise a few thousand to commission a respected but independent professional analysis of the business performance of the Club over the last 10 years. That would carry much more weight than relying on how some inane TV pundit reacts in their 30 second analysis and would bring in interest from serious journos.

I still think the majority of fans are like me... mostly focused on 90 mins and a few transfer stories. An independent analysis may change that.

That said, his comment about the fans’ protest is actually pretty typical of most UK London based media. They don’t take sufficient interest in Everton FC to get inside the intricacies of the running of the club or the fans’ perspectives . They are more interested in getting shots of the rather pretty Chelsea club doctor on their sports pages. That’s what passes as sports journalism in this country.

We should now be able to comfortably tell clubs sniffing around Stones and Barkley to piss off as we are a club moving forward and will not contemplate selling our players to rivals.

Typical example is John Cross from ’The Mirror’ who even today on Talksport guarantees Stones will be sold to Chelsea, £35M will seal the deal and little old Everton will be happy with yet another sale. We then buy a couple of players for far less and the profits fucking disappear.

I was a cautious supporter of Bill Kenwright but now my eyes are wide open and he needs to go now for the sake of our great club and the reality of us losing the best batch of young players we have had in years. NSNO.

At least this time they appeared to take the time to understand what redeveloping Goodison involves.... one of the constraints being it would take years. Well, years later, they could have made a decision around Option 2 as soon as Kings Dock fell through and moved with it. What a mess!

The kid showed on Saturday how good he his going to be, so to sell him now would be absolutely unforgivable.

GED your suggestion seems sensible to me, but would have to go as far back as when Mr Kenwright became chairman. Even then I’m not sure anything could unite our crowd, in respect of the current owners.

Nor do I see anything resembling the "Colour Kings Waterfront Brochure 7th bullet down" you suggest.

If possible, can you make another attempt and giving us a good link, or better instruction as to how to get there. I'd be intrigued to view what you found.

Cheers!

There is so much mis-information (some peddled by the club) which keeps the Board’s supporters happy and the fans divided.

For example, our debt has recently reduced -- (the amount of times this is lauded as a good point for the board on these pages alone is staggering). The club's debt has not reduced. In fact, it has increased. That’s one example.

If an independent analysis is paid for and published in the national and local press, it may well go some way to turning heads and creating awareness. And you’re right -- it needs to include the apparently leveraged buy-out from when BK took-over.

An independent detailed analysis would erase or confirm the many arguments of BK doing a fantastic job within his own constraints.

On a personal level, I’d be interested to know what the other major shareholders bring to the club in terms of knowledge/skills and what their individual roles are? Are they ’silent’ ’investors’ or do they play an active role in the running of the club?

Also of interest is whether (in comparison to other clubs) the chairman works for the club on a full-time basis? I’ll take Chelsea and Man City as examples. Their owners are not the chairmen of their clubs. They have full-time chairmen, but for obvious reasons, their owners are unable to dedicate enough time to the day-to-day running of the club.

Our chairman is one of the owners. He lives in London. How much time does our chairman dedicate to our/his club? Do we have a part-time chairman? Our CEO is nothing but a glorified accountant.

A sad day all round. The City Council at the time were run by RS gobshites, and stated in a meeting that there were 6 world class bids for the site, and Everton's was 7th. Cue a few of the consultants on the project for Everton (who were season ticket holders despite being London based) outlining a strategy how they (not the club) would tie Liverpool's application for Stanley Park up in a planning and legal quagmire for decades, and the City Council's stance suddenly did a 180.

We should've known better - they knew Blue Bill would never come up with the goods.

The real shame was the financial modelling for that whole development, with revenues from all angles, would've put Everton ahead of most of its peers and with a world-class waterfront stadium as part of the iconic city skyline, and would've had Bill & Co beating off investors with a shitty stick.

Then 4 years later came another kick in the nuts - Desperation Kirkby. No talk of huge secondary and tertiary revenues, just talk of mid-level designs, transport issues and supporters getting on their bikes.

He's a fucking fraud and still wants his massive payout.

Documents
http://www.efcsa.org/documents/

I still have floating round this brain box, Gregg saying he would fund the EFC share but wouldn’t gift it to the club.

I might be unfair to Kenwright but to me, Kenwright wouldn’t have that, as it’d mean him stepping down as Chairman. I still can’t believe that we lost a world class stadium on a world class site. What makes it worse is that Kenwright said "ah well, we’ll know better next time" ... Then Kirkby came along!

Some interesting bits on Wikipedia showed up that Gregg was willing to put some funding in place but didn’t think Kenwright was up to the job as Chairman (and it seems he held the same opinion of him and his dealings with Samuelson during the FSF fiasco) and I couldn’t argue with that assessment.

If the whole bloody team went, I for one, would still be an Evertonian and I wouldn't wish to have any journeymen supporters alongside me. So that 'crowd' should go right now, and not even bother waiting to see whether Stones goes or not.

"Eh, George! these soft twats are willing to give me a grand to fly with a banner behind me!!"

As much as I appreciate the sentiment, a plane flying overhead with a banner (in red, no less) isn’t going to change the status quo.

Yes, banners are confiscated before getting into the crowd, but ultimately what has that thousand pounds earned?

A 2-second clip on Match of the Day and a few papers with a sentence or two about it. (Many are using it as a negative against fans.) I just don’t understand how people think this will make Bill sell up and how this would attract potential buyers.

Same as most fans, he would have looked up, tutted then started watching the match again. I applaud the fact that they are trying to do something, but it’s plane company who is coming out on top with this idea.

There's a few pearls still around - on YouTube the company that did the 3D rendering has a graphic "fly through" of the site. But most of the info I recall from former colleagues who worked on the project from conception to death, and cremation.

No banners on this...

Matt is correct in stating that the amount of money Everton FC had to raise did jump significantly as this report shortly after the whole thing officially collapsed states:

Apr 11 2003 By Neil Hodgson, Industry Reporter

EVERTON’S Kings Dock dream died because they ran out of time and money.

Two years ago fans and city leaders were excited by the prospect of a 55,000-seat arena. Outlining the vision was Everton director Paul Gregg, who had years of experience in the entertainment world through his SFX leisure group.

The cost of the arena was estimated at £155m as part of a total £350m package including new housing, hotels and a public/private split on funding worked out at £35m from Objective 1 resources; £35m raised from the sale of housing and surrunding land; £30m from Everton; £20m from a mortgage taken out by Everton and the private sector; with the remainder from Liverpool council.

The ECHO understands that the council agreed a deal that capped its exposure to any financial risk and that also allowed it to pay back some of the Objective 1 loan if the sale of houses and land raised more than the estimates.

Mr Gregg is even believed to have signed a promisory note guaranteeing Everton’s £30m. But as work on the plan progressed it became clear that Everton was struggling to raise all its requirement as costs began to spiral.

Last year a boardroom rift over how to pay for the stadium effectively split Mr Gregg and Everton deputy chairman Bill Kenwright. But by then the cost of the development had rocketed from £155m to £193m, which would have meant Everton finding £86m.

It is undertood a compromise was put forward by the club for a £173m stadium, including £76m from Everton. That included a 55,000-seat football ground, minus the sliding roof and pitch, with a 10,000-seat arena for concerts and conferences built alongside the stadium. It would have been a rough version of the original scheme but, say council sources, with the quality and potential taken out.

Regeneration company Liverpool Vision, which spearheaded the scheme, balked at the proposal. The consensus was: "There’s no way we just wanted a football stadium at Kings Dock." So a Plan B was devised for a 12,000-seat arena, 3,000-seat conference centre and hotel to slot into the space reserved for the original arena proposal.

Late last year, Vision set Everton a December deadline. That passed and, with it, their preferred developer status. Vision met earlier this week to consider Everton’s latest proposal, but decided to decline.

So work now starts on Plan B. Critics will claim the farrago has wasted public money and two years on one of the city’s most prestigious sites. But the council would argue that the environmental work, planning and transport issues for Kings Dock would have had to be done anyway and they have done it at a fraction of the cost because it was shared four ways.

I think what I kept on wondering about was why didn’t we put the £30 million in when it was first asked for and also why didn’t the board continue, even if the costs had increased? How on earth did it shoot from £30 mill to £86 mill when the stadium cost only went up £40 million???

Good stuff as well, Matt, about LFC and Liverpool Council. "We should have known better!" Spot on Matt!

Anyway, I guess the issue between Gregg and Kenwright will never come out in public... I just find myself thinking that Gregg would have seen us get that stadium. I can’t prove it, of course, but he would have seen the vast improvement in EFC’s income over the years.

I do believe the whole Fortress Sports Fund was a fit-up to stitch Gregg up publicly; the fact that Bill openly laughed at that episode some years later at an AGM suggests that he’s less than honest about his motives. Either way if they’d delivered Kings’ Dock, I’m sure he’d have got a King’s ransom for the shareholding and few would’ve begrudged him it.

Instead, he and his fellow directors have presided over 16 years of decline. If a buyer does emerge, he’ll still walk away with millions of profit, and no legacy; and I suspect, at this stage of his life, he won’t give a fuck.

If the intention is to let Kenwright know that the supporters want him gone then he needs to see the numbers. He’s probably written the plane guys off as a crank minority -- as the media seem to have done.

With you on that.

Along with many other fans, I spoke to Kenwright soon after his purchase of EFC. It was at the Park End Car Park and he promised a group of us Evertonians that he'll find the right people to make Everton great again....I'm not calling him a liar, but he's a long time BUSTED FLUSH!

#timetogo

Whatever happened in the Boardroom, the result of losing the Kings Dock opportunity was an absolute disaster for us. I know never is a long time but I can't see us getting the ground done up by this board, nor them building a new stadium.

Oscar Wilde's quote sprung to mind when I was watching the media hacks salivating over the ’fans protest’ before the Saints game. Why did I think ’cynic’? Could it be that those who organised this fly by chose the day carefully because of our previous visits in recent years? Could these same people of actually been HOPING for an away hammering? Are they now GUTTED cos we won in style?

Surely not. That would be cynical. They do appear to know the ’cost of everything’ though. Listen to them reel off their selective numbers. Do they honestly think Kenwright and Co are taking money out of the club? They are not.

This brings me on to the ’value of nothing’. I suspect history will prove Kenwright and Co may have been right not to sell to any old yank, Russian or Icelander that offered a decent little profit into the sky rockets of the board.

No. Kenwright, I truly believe, knows the VALUE of the club. And I don’t mean quick cash profit. I mean our Chairman honestly and truly knows the value is there in people like my dad who has just started his 70th year going to the game, week- in & week-out. Or my grandad who used to donate his clothing coupons to the club after WWII. This is the value and if forgotten it will cost us. Don’t be cynical lads.

After the Southampton game, Pleat and Murray (Radio 5 live) were claiming results on the field dictate such protests which I found very insulting; they are not linked in any way and are separate issues.

I’ve noticed the same response from other programs including MotD Extra and 606 (all BBC) where the social media comments and callers are carefully selected and critical of the protest campaign. No-one with a list of facts and concerns from the opposition get a chance to air their views, they are branded as trouble makers (not real fans) and in the minority which is a disgrace from an organization that claims to be unbiased, professional and to report the truth.

Of course the BBC aren’t the only ones, most of the press are guilty of it, but I gave up on them a long time ago and it was nothing to do with football.

I believe the groundswell is more entrenched now, as it is self-evident that this board has run out of cover for its continued under performance.

Many have already highlighted the so-called lesser clubs that have and are overtaking us in terms of planning and ambition. They have laid out basic plans, have demonstrated a desire to develop and progress their club and have acted decisively. And in less than the 15 or 20 years this board has had.

Surely that goal and aspiration is the minimum Everton deserves?

I’ve always naturally been weary of sound bites, reactionaryism and rhetoric that they spew out like nobody but them understand. Those who hired the plane did not ask for my opinion on the tactic or that of any other, other than their own circle. I object to their naivety and claim they are speaking for Evertonians.

It was cynical on Saturday because they deliberately planned it expecting us to get turned over. That would have added gravitas and justification in their minds. Are they disappointed we won? It wouldn’t surprise me. Pay your money, shout from your seat, comment on websites, write to the club... but don’t ever carry out a cheap media stunt in my name ever again. The press loved it. The Red Shite loved it. And no doubt any potential buyers probably thought twice. Cheap, tacky and a show of unbelievable arrogance.

But carry on, lads, back slapping each other kidding yourselves that you must care more than the rest of us. And you won’t just make fools of yourselves.

If you really think the Board / BK is milking the club or has been negligent, get some clear, independent evidence.

Otherwise most of us who want to watch some footy will yawn a you’ll just waste money on banners.

But that value mostly comes from the people of the City of Liverpool who have supported the club through lean times and through very happy times. In that respect the club does owe the supporters a debt of gratitude for being very passionate, understanding for the most part and have shown patience that many other fans of other clubs haven't shown or were unable to show.

The present board may well have a better grasp of the nature of the club than others, but that isn't and won't be enough to move the club forward unless it is backed up with concrete plans and the money to carry out those plans. It's very hard to prove something that never happened would be proved to be correct by history - how would anyone be able to quantify that particular theory.

I can't speak for those that trailed the banner at Southampton, but perhaps they were being cynical by choosing that venue, or perhaps the team decided to show that they are Everton and put on a performance that took everybody by surprise - if that was the case could it be argued that the team were being cynical by producing such a performance that coincided with the protests?

It wouldn't take a great deal for the club to stop the protests all they would have to do is inform us all, of their intentions and ambitions for the club for the next few years and how they intend to fulfil those ambitions, not in fine detail necessarily but in broad strokes which would give every supporter the hope that the club will be doing more than trudging the well worn path of the last decade.

I also can't agree that people have been guilty of using selective numbers to back up their arguments, if that was the case there are enough people on this site who would shoot them down pretty quick and show them the correct figures, regardless of the views of those who used those spurious figures.

Everton FC will hopefully continue a long time after the current owners, players and supporters are no longer around, and all that most fans want is that the club is left in a healthy state, if we didn't care these threads wouldn't be filled with so many posts or points of view.

However I ask the question how can you be sure "Kenwright and Co" are not taking anything out of the club?

When Kenwright took over, there was a balance sheet adjustment which suggested the £20 million buyout costs had been leveraged out of the club.

There is the small matter of a BVI loan which pays absurd interest of £8 to 9 million a year at a time when the Premier League is awash with money.

Nobody has ever been able to adequately explain why "Other Operating Costs" rose from £1 million a year to over £20 million a year during Kenwright and Co’s reign.

Why was Paul Gregg (a close friend) so anxious to get BK to stand down and also criticised the vehicle (True Blue Holdings) as being an obstruction to further investment because of the way it was structured?

We are only cynical because we have been lied to so often and so blatantly by BK.

Tony Rio calling out others for what he believes is their cynical view on Everton and the board ... by cynically presuming, without any proof whatsoever, that they were hoping the fly-by would coincide with a defeat at St. Mary's on Saturday.

Possibly, Tony, their motivation to protest as they did was because they also know the true value of Everton's rich inheritance and are exasperated to see that being diminished and devalued with each passing year under a moribund board.

Only on TW...

I don’t think anyone who is critical of the board is cynical, nor are they spouting rhetoric. A lot of the lads who have concerns about this club are much more savvy about accounts, accountancy and business than I’ll ever be but they have made statements which look right, they have asked questions that are valid and that I’d like to see answered. That includes the Kirkby fiasco, our deals with commercial companies, our selling off of our assets and, the Gods help us, some sort of plan from this board for the future.

From what I’ve read, their sincerity, their explanations of accounts and business practices, strike a chord with me and the posters have convinced me that there is something wrong at Goodison Park and our Club.

Coversely, a number of statements, actions and decisions made by this Board, strike me as something less than truthful and do not appear to be in the long term interest of our club.

I think your heart’s in the right place and the thought you’ve put into your post shows you feel angry at who you perceive to be cynically hoping for a defeat when they hired that plane.

I don’t see it that way though and the people who I read on here, are eloquent and educated men who have worries about the running of EFC.

When the nclub said there was a great opportunity for a "virtually free" stadium at Kirkby, it was Evertonians who showed that to be just hot air, fantastic transport links, absolute twaddle and it was Evertonians who produced evidence to show that was the case.

They weren’t doing it because they didn’t like our Chairman, they were working to show, the plan was impractical.

We have a Chairman who, has Erik Doll has shown, was extremely vocal at one stage for staying at Goodison. There were plans produced by the club to show that a 45,000- or 55,000-seater stadium could be built at Goodison Park, but during the Kirkby adventure, we were told that Goodison could not be developed.

There is plenty more that Evertonians are concerned about and I really don’t know how you expect a group who think Kenwright should go, to go out and ask all 40,000 of us, is it okay to have a protest?

Just like your father and grandfather, I’ve been going to Goodison for quite a while, though not as long as your grandfather. I’ve only been going for about 55 years.

I’d like to think that young uns going to the match now, and even younger Blues waiting to go to their first match, will have a Club, renowned throughout football as club with a great history, as successful as in those wonderful years that we’ve had.

My fear is that this Board are going to leave us high and dry, once the time comes for Kenwright to decide he wants to leave.

Hope I’m wrong but there is absolutely nothing that the board has done that gives me any confidence that those kids will see anything like EFC being where it should be.

Firstly Everton is a football club so it can't move into new lines like Next so that seems to be out. Secondly it seems to me as though there are no buyers or investors who'd take on a high debt club like EFC that needs a new ground so that route seems to be out too especially post 2008. Thirdly, the board won't invest their own money so that way is out too and lastly we won't sell more merchandise until we become a brand like the big merchandise shifters and we won't do this without success no matter how we market the stuff. So where does significant extra revenue come from given that anything realistic would have been done already?

So this begs the question, has the board done as well as they could be expected to do under the circumstances or have they negligently held the club back by not achieving what could have been expected by a competent board? I think that this is a no-brainer of a question tbh. EFC aren't a "buy" and certainly not an investment and while some believe that the club doesn't want to sell or wants far more than anybody would pay and that the current board leaving would guarantee improvement, all of these have no real basis.

This then begs the big question, what do this minority group actually want? Is it for the current board to sell at any price? Give the club away? Goals should be achievable and this one probably isn't I'm afraid.

We all want EFC to be in the best position possible and even to achieve success again but the question is what is achievable and realistic. Given that the current board is in the driving seat, I believe the way forward is supporting them in achieving the best outcome for everybody, communication not confrontation. Public protest won't move this board unless it reduces their revenue and it won't as this year's ticket sales showed.

Remember also that the silent and very large majority of fans needs to be part of this debate too, the activist groups don't represent them.

I don’t see that anyone is stopping any of the silent 40,000, by the way, Martin. The activist groups are equally genuine supporters who believe that this board are not fit and proper guardians of this club.

The trouble is, now that we are in such a financial mess, it is unlikely that it will be taken up by another owner. That leaves a fairly delicate situation for the future, though.

You can agree or disagree. I don't necessarily share your opinion either. But the lads who have done this have every right to express their opinions as they see fit. Some people might make a flag or wear a t-shirt. Some people might organise a march. Various fan groups have done this in the past. But the club has so many people on the payroll who also have a voice in the local media, and they immediately dismiss any uprising before it has even got going. Look at Sharpy with his ' one man and his dog' comments. Look at Snodin in the Echo this week. Look at Kenwright getting his mates in the media to put a positive spin on everything he has done, and how the Blue Union was given almost zero coverage.

Say what you like, but a plane in the sky gets everyone's attention if nothing else. And remember, those lads said on the morning of the game that they were 100% behind the team - support the team, oppose stagnation.

I support them 100%. If you don't, fine. But they have every right to do whatever they want, to a subject that, putting it mildly, is a valid subject for debate.

How can you claim there is a minority dissatisfied and wanting change when a recent poll showed 80% want Kenwright out and I would argue that the balance of posters on ToffeeWeb is firmly against Kenwright and Co?

I admire your staunch defense of the board but it has no substance because you cannot defend the blatant lies and deceit that have emanated from the boardroom.

I am also disbelieving at the number of posts that pour scorn upon the protesters for having the audacity to use the money they raised for the cause that they believe in to pay for the method they thought was the best way to get their point across.

By way of balance this was posted a couple of hours back and should give those who are organising these protests pause for thought.

Everton Musings
https://Evertonmusings.wordpress.com/2015/08/17/bill-kenwright-and-the-Everton-board/

I reckon that in my lifetime I've travelled between 50,000 and 100,000 miles watching Everton, so I most certainly agree with you that I'm a journeyman supporter!

I feel that Stones might go, and if he does, it's possible that I might not go to Goodison again, whilst Kenwright remains in charge.

I will always be an Evertonian Vince, the club is in my blood, but if I don't go again, I'm sure I wouldn't miss, sitting next to people like you either.

Wow that is really desperate stuff.

Maybe quite telling too.

Genuinely sounds like someone narked that ’our dirty little secret’ is now ’out there.’

That now the national media (because of the protest) are becoming aware of what is actually going on - despite the sleight-of-hand efforts of the board (and The Echo) to keep things hidden.

However I would (genuinely) like to hear your ideas for ’original’ anti-board protests.

Maybe you could do an original pro--board protest, to show us how it’s done.

(Next time I see a protest march, Imust remember to shout sarcastically, ’A march!? Oh that’s an original form of protest!’)

Given the state of the club, when they inherited it?

Within two years they had saddled millions more debt, on a club that was already in a rotten state!

That's a little too much like Nurse Ratched rigging the voting on whether McMurphy and the feebs brigade get to watch the ball game, by automatically counting those who can't or won't speak up as being happy with the in house programming and adverse to any alteration in routine.

What gives you a special insight into the minds of the mute masses, Martin?

I struggle to see how someone can scream blue murder about the plane hirers hauling a tatty arl banner through the air, bristle with outrage at the way in which these 'cynics' dare presume to speak for fellow Evertonians, but then go on to annoint themselves as being the voice of 'the majority', all whilst keeping a straight face.

My opinion is that the majority of Evertonians get peed off by repeated bullshit. Unlike the red shite who love it - we're gonna win league every season with Harry Kewell to Milner signings, Bill Shankley blah blah blah what a hero we loved him (despite treating him like dog shit).

Moyes was pretty straight up but then left and started spouting bullshit. For example, about how he would have let Everton players go to further their career, how call to manage Man U came right out of the blue (despite not signing extension on offer for months/a year).

Martinez (even when you're happy with him) seems to just love spouting bullshit - watch Atsu go second half of the season .... Incredible, phenomenal. For fuck sake Martinez we were really good on Saturday yet would you please just bloody practise dead ball situations, particularly defensive ones as it's still obvious we don't practise and hey guess what..... we're shit at defending them what a surprise!

When it comes to Kenright he is in a different league. Most Evertonians really can't be arsed protesting and the fact that some are I think just shows how disgruntled and how sick many are of the bullshit and outright lies.

Personally and not bullshitting I still can't be arsed protesting but good luck to those who can be.

What we need is an improvement in the finances of the Club. They need to be stabilised, improved and expanded but as everyone knows, the club doesn't currently have a chairman or a board in a position to do those things.

I agree that protests against the Kenwright and the board, should be directed at them, and not the team. A plane pulling a banner over Goodison, when none of the board is actually at the game, while a good publicity vehicle, is in the end, toothless. Every Evertonian who would see it, will already have firm opinion, one way or the other, and a sign in in the sky is not going to change their minds. Also, it could prove a distraction to the squad, and that would not be right.

If Kenwright is as ill, as many claim him to be, then change may be coming, whether we like it or not. The timing of this latest bit of protest is unfortunate. I'm not pro-protest or pro-Kenwright, but it could be seen by some as kicking a person when he's down.

How long ago was it that the Echo said they would be more impartial and report supporters concerns and nothing has happened? If the concerns are aired in the national press then how long can the Echo continue to ignore the issue?

Where they were 2 years later isn't really the criteria to judge them by only where we are now and the direction we're going.

The Everton that I see now is in significantly healthier shape than then in every respect despite still being severely income limited. RM is the unknown but I believe that the club has provided him with very good playing talent and excellent facilities for development which is all they can be expected to do. We have massive problem areas like the stadium issue but the club is patently working to resolve this. The club is officially for sale to the right buyer so I'm not really sure what more they can fairly be expected to do.

Many responses to my points are predictably just personal attacks but what I don't see are any answers to what the club can do to sustainably increase its revenue, how a change of board without additional finance (the least likely of all events) will automatically change this situation, how the legal owners of the club can be persuaded to hand the club over or how a buyer can be found now when none could be for the last decade?

The problem the club faces is that it's poor now compared with the "big" clubs. Hard to take for sure but there's no magic cure for this; if there was then every club in our position would have done it by now.

I fully appreciate the frustration that prompted the plane and the banner, but I also believe that any protest, whether it is covered by the press or not, will fall on deaf ears. I haven't a clue what you could do to force a positive change to status quo, but I fear nothing you do is going to make any difference. I wish you well in the attempt, though.

You think we are doing a good job, but take away the television money, and I personally don't see it.

Wether Martinez, is the man remains to be seen, but he seems to be the only person at the club with a long term plan, maybe other than the people in charge of the youth accademy.

This is why I think that selling Stones, would be a step to far for a lot of people. You can't have the manager saying he his going to build a young team, then go out and sell, possibly the best young defender in Europe.

I've said for many years that I believe Kenwright to be a lying, phoney, and believe that if he genuinely wanted to sell Everton, then he should ask the people who defeated Everton, and Tesco, in the courtroom, to find us a buyer.

These people are also genuine Evertonians who repeatedly told Everton, that the only thing that DK was going to offer, was a lot of time, effort and wasted money.

Then they wouldn't continually push the 'Good Old Bill, he's a true Blue, a gentleman chairman from the good old days' that we know is pure coprolite.

Bad publicity is something Bill doesn't like.

You’re wasting your time with Mr Mason; he’s an engineer you know. In the past he’s been a prime advocate of Desperation Kirkby, called those Evertonians who opposed it "flimsy" (?), countered arguments that Bill is a proven, practiced liar by stating telling porkies is common and acceptable in business. (Not round our way, Martin!)
And, often, off-handedly calls Everton a small club

I think he blinkerdly believes (or pretends to) that the powers-that-be within the "business" of Everton Football Club Company Limited could not have done more to increase income and improve the "business".

Everton has not been a well run football club since the inception of the Premier League compared to our peers. All of our peers have improved their facilities (we improved our training ground then sold it).

Clubs like Swansea have improved and are looking to exploit foreign markets -- can anyone serious argue that Swansea are better equiped to do this than Everton? Yet we do not take advantage of the fact we have a US national hero in our team.

Sorry, but to say that the Everton board have done, and continue to do a good job, based on our financial limitations is missing a huge point -- those financial limitations have been self-imposed BY OUR BOARD.

I realistically to know that it will take years to make up the ground (if at all) on the rich elite, but at the moment it is not possible to make up any ground at all as we do not have a plan to move us forward.

Some have stated that the fans do not offer a viable alternative, well here’s one the current board could do:

1. Hire a Marketing Director -- with the sole purpose of breaking into foreign markets and growing our domestic brand
2. Hire an Operations Director -- who can work in conjunction with the Marketing Director to establish streams for selling club merchandise
3. Hire a full-time Chairman/woman to oversee the running of the club on a day-to-day basis (as our Chairman is based in London and cannot have his finger on the pulse at all times)
4. Hire a profesional to sell the club (if indeed the club is for sale)
5. Organise a full appraisal, in conjunction with fan-groups, for a modernisation of Goodison Park. The involvement of fans-groups would create transparency. The appraisal would be the first step to establishing if it is actually a viable option to re-model the stadium and the time-scale and costs this would involve.

There you go -- 5 steps the current board could take which would go some way to changing the outlook of the club and bringing the fans back onside.

"what do this minority group actually want? ... the silent and very large majority of fans needs to be part of this debate too, the activist groups don't represent them."

#60

"I believe that the plane trick was taken negatively by all who saw and commented on it and that it fell flat on its face."

#63

"Please give a reference to this poll, how many people were polled and the question that was asked."

I look forward to you applying the same standard of proof you demand of others in post #63 that can support your comments in posts #54 and #60.

He reminds me of "The Duke" in Midnight Run. "One Funny Guy", but it takes ages to realise it!

From what I remember though a majority of fans were advocates of DK?

The Everton board is comprised of very experienced and hard headed businessmen but unlike some I don't believe that they are so stupid that they don't understand where marketing opportunities exist. My thoughts are that they don't exist in any number as Everton are virtually unknown outside of the UK or at least to the muppets who buy EPL merchandise. I knew a shop in the WTC in Bangkok that sold Everton merchandise during the Joe Royle/Kachelskis era. They didn't last long as only me ever bought anything.

Anyway, enough from me.

Yes, I know we have no non-executive Directors with the sole functions of the above. It's really not for me to do the cost-analysis is it? I offered an alternative to doing nothing, that's all.

Football, as you have pointed out, has changed since even the Royle days....if Swansea can take advantage of foreign markets, why can't we? Should we not try to change from what we are doing at present? We have not attempted to make any sort of advance to exploit Tim Howards fame and status in America - which is a current growing football market.

Sorry, but regardless of what you say, it appears as though you are happy with the status quo...

If it wasn't about winning trophies then nobody would care about any of the other stuff because if you take out the need for silverware we have been plodding along nicely most of the time since March 2002.

Why don't we win trophies? Because our team isn't really good enough.

And why is that? Because we have to sell our best players to balance the books and can't afford better replacements.

So get a proper financial structure in place that allows us to keep players like Rooney, Arteta and Stones and buy others of their ability and then we stand a chance of competing on the field.

Until then it's going to be more of the profits made on players sales and hand to mouth existence that we've come to know and love.

And the voles which were forcibly ejected from the diverted River Alt have still not been brought back! Tchhh!

Make that a promise Martin, PLEASE!!!.