Roberto and the Next Trophy

Chelsea yes, Man City too, and some of the perennial mid table sides like Stoke and West Ham.

It was otherwise going well until the second last paragraph saying we could win a trophy if the supporters get behind the team. To me it all depends on the team, if they decide to play as they did against Chelsea then they have a much better chance than if they play as they did against Man Utd. That's nothing to do with the fans.

I agree about negative banners at those cup games. What is the bloody point. If you think 2 days mention in tomorrow's chip paper will make the Board decide your way, you are very naive. Remember... from here on in the story is Leicester. Not us.

So stop friggin repeating the same old comments about Martinez. Everyone knows the view of the fans and soon we'll just be arguing about a date.

And of course spiting ourselves by anything that reduces the chance of some youngsters seeing a bus with a cup and having a reason to stay Everton Fans.

"Baines is one of us". Maybe once.

When you watch the home games please do not tell me I am being negative to the team and Martinez, it's not just one or two bad performances it's the constant dross week after week that drives you down.

I will miss this Saturday's match but I really don't care, the team have driven me to this and the way we play, it never changes just gets worse.

I have every admiration for the away supporters and those going to Wembley: the cost,the time, the effort, and I hope we win for there sake more than anyone else.

But I still maintain if this muppet stays in charge the next stop will be the championship and I don't want to be attending the home games to see this happen.

To finish, Martinez out now, the sooner the better.

My feeling is that, on the day, Blues as a collective will sense what you describe above – the opportunity to finally end this drought of trophies and then see where the chips fall after the 90 (or 120!) minutes are up.

The atmosphere in the build-up to the semi-final might be different story, though, with the home game against Southampton particularly ripe for demonstrations of dissent if we get a bad result tomorrow at Palace. There's talk of white handkerchief protests during the game on Saturday and, as counter-productive as that could prove to be in the context of the cup game, if that's the only way for supporters to get their feelings across en masse who would be surprised?

As I say, discontent will rumble on where the bigger picture is concerned, but I expect the support to be there at Wembley.

8 trophies since the 2nd world war does sound pretty mediocre I must admit, however, as many, many clubs can testify, it isn't easy to win multiple trophies. Only RS, Manure and the Arse have successfully done this on a regular basis. Chelski and Citeh are buying theirs (don't get me wrong it would be lovely to have that kind of money) so normal rules don't really apply to them. We are still the 4th most successful club in regards to league titles and whilst it is a constant source of irritation that we have gone 21 years without a trophy, over the years we haven't done badly.

When comparing the early Kendall years (1st time round) to the Martinez years, people forget that Kendall had a lot of building to do. The squad wasn't in very good shape and he more or less started from scratch.

Another point worth mentioning also when saying that Kendall out furore was going on, is that the RS were winning everything in sight. You just couldn't get away from it. I was at school then and I got it down the banks nearly every day from my RS mates lauding it over me. We were desperate for success. If it was any other club that was winning everything, the impatience wouldn't have been so bad. As it was, we didn't have such a bad side through the 70s.

As you say, we should have won the league in 74-75 and I seem to remember we gave Forest a run for the title for a good while in 78. Allied to that cheated in the 77 FA Cup Semi-Final, the League Cup Final in 77, compared to today, it makes us seem quite a decent team. As it was, we were deemed a failure.

Which brings me to present day. As Lyndon quite rightly pointed out, at Wembley, all you will see will be a sea of blue and white and the noise will be deafening from our side. That shouldn't disguise the fact that Martinez took over a club in good health with a decent squad and has turned us into strugglers. The internet has nothing to do with people making their feelings known. If it was in the 70s then cushions would be thrown (badly) and many seats would be vacant.

As it is, in the modern age there are a lot more season ticket holders so the stadium is full most weeks. This football for the last 2 seasons has been some of the worst I have witnessed in my 40 years of going to the game, all done when taking over a good squad; there is no excuse. Kenwright seems oblivious to all this.

Semi final or no semi final, we have to make our feelings known. Martinez has abused Nil Satis Nisi Optimum to a new low given his resources. We will always cheer and hope for the best for our club but as to suggesting that a Martinez banner is affecting the team, well whats the excuse for the last 2 full years?

The current consensus is definitely for a change amongst our support, however the old saying of a week being a long time in politics applies here. You only have to read threads after a couple of good results to see this.

If we are taking the open top bus tour in May then enough of the fan base will be euphoric enough to give the guy more time and certainly Kenwright will want to.

I do realise that the current poll on here says something different but that's because most people are responding in light of our current form, it would be different with silverware.

For my part I don't see us actually winning the thing given the current state of affairs. I also don't think he should be our manager going forward; however, I could not wish away the chance of a Cup win for that to happen and, believe, me he will remain if it does.

Eric, I said: Perhaps it is something to do with the fact that while we have our best squad in 30 years, the same applies to most other Premier League clubs,

What I should have said was:

"Perhaps it is something to do with the fact that while we have our best squad in 30 years, many other Premier League clubs also have their best squads in ages, due to the TV money..."

Ged, cheers.

Chris, I don't wish it to come across as accusing any individual of being negative. I'm just trying to get over the suggestion that these days we can now easily build up an accumulative negativity online that lingers all week. And it can snowball if poor result follows poor result,

And right now, Lyndon, we are heading into three league games where there is unfortunately potential for the atmosphere to become positively toxic, undermining morale, as we head into a FA Cup semi-final – and they don't come round often.

Basically, I'm just trying to say that many Everton managers have failed to deliver a trophy. Let's not make it any more difficult than it need be for the current guy.

Right, I'm off to enjoy the evening air and a phenomenal pint.

Barry, are you really saying in all honesty that during the 90s and throughout Moyes tenure you have never been as down as this? Perhaps you were a youngster during the 90s and off your face on ecstasy because in my mind we had many, many worse seasons than this. Who can forget staying up on the last day of the season twice and that marvellous season with Moyes topped off with an abject performance at Man City when we lost 5-0. We still could win the Cup and get in Europe as a result.

From many of the posters on TW it almost seems like they would be devastated if that happened. I get the frustration/anger with Martinez and if he can't deliver the cup then he should go. I wonder whether the mood would be different if the home and away form for this season were reversed, there would be disquiet I'm sure, but not at this level.

I think back to the finals and semi finals we have been involved in, Rotterdam, Villa park, Wembley against The Shite, The Mancs and Chelsea and our fans have been world class.

Evertonians have always given their club incredible support. This time will be no different.

Alas Graham #8, I suspect you're right in your assessment should we win the cup

You're way off the beam here.

The fans have been relatively patient in showing their feelings in the form of a banner considering the number of times they've walked away from games, particularly at Goodison, utterly frustrated at what they've just witnessed.

I doubt if you'll see banners at the semi-final or for that matter the final. But no doubt they'll continue and perhaps increase at Premier League games.

As for the spitting your dummies out comment I don't know what fans your talking about but I think of many other fans this might apply to but not, from anything I've ever seen, Everton fans.

As for the 'we feel and we care' comments – that stuff emanates more from newbee Evertonians who hold positions within the club and who, either try to tap in to supporters they are desperate to empathise, or have ideas they think will delight our Chairman, rather than from Evertonians themselves.

You are nearer playing the bleeding hearts card with your 'depriving some youngsters' (of which I have two) from 'seeing a bus with a cup'. I'd have thought the whole crowd of us, youngsters, pensioners et al deserve not only to see a bus with a cup but also two great Wembley wins to boot!

Whatever way you look at it, the stage of the season the odd banner is definitely not going to influence whether we win the cup or not. As far as I am concerned, our name is on it!

Negativity is absolutely justified by the dreadful and increasingly poor performances Martinez has overseen. The huge question for 23 April is whether the team can overcome the negativity and shite mental condition engendered by Martinez as their coach. They have the ability, as they have shown us, but they need that team spirit from within them before they step on the field.

The fans so far are mostly directing their ire at the source of all our problems – the manager. And you should really get with the programme – it's 2016 and the internet is the perfect place for the feelings of the fans to be expressed.

All this persistent craving for the past... I find it sickeningly pathetic. It's gone. It's never coming back. The passage of time moves relentlessly forward. I'm sure that the Everton fans at Wembley will do us proud in the main, although I'm sure there'll be plenty of shouts from the more critical amongst them if justified by poor play on the field. T'was ever thus, and it's slightly sad to see pleas like this asking for the zeitgeist of the crowd to change.

Let it be, I say. Evertonians are great fans, especially those who can get to the game. They deserve to see one helluva lot better in terms of performance, tactics, game management and results than they are at present. And the more noise they make about that, the better, as it may well hasten change where it's clearly needed.

We've seen 10 years of steadying the ship and competing reasonably ( Euro campaigns, Cup runs, decent top 8 finishes) and this happened at the time of austerity ( RS paid £35 mill for Carroll as we spent £250,000 on Velios). Now in the last 2 years it has all somewhat unraveled. The modern game is about solidity (Leicester, Tottenham, Stoke, Southampton) with a bit of flair thrown in which all above have players to provide. We are not solid. In fact generally all over the place.

I don't reckon Arsenal, Man City or Man Utd are that solid but have more flair or organisation than us. So I agree get behind the team but it remains that the boss has to take reasonibility for the poor form etc etc etc. He has to be made accountable at some point because I fear we are heading in one direction.

Anyone got directions to Burton Alibon!

To suggest we somehow expect to be perennial winners though is nonsense. As pointed out in the article we haven't been a club that wins trophies on a regular basis. In fact lack of investment over many years have conditioned us to expect very little in the trophy room.

We don't however expect or deserve to be so pathetic at home as we have been over the last two season's. When record losses at home are being recorded something is dreadfully wrong, that can only be down to the manager. If we arrive at Wembley with our confidence and morale crushed it will be Roberto's fault regardless of the result, not the fans, let's be very clear on this.

But social media etc, especially when you can do it on mobile phones, is rapidly changing social dynamics and the way people relate to each other. Funnily enough, earlier today, I was reading an article about Ronald Koeman being very concerned about this.

To all: I am NOT blaming fans for where we are in the league. I am saying that a protest has been made. Fair enough.

But if they continue between now and the semi, there is a considerable risk that they reduce our chances of winning the FA Cup. And I'd love to see us win the FA Cup. What's up with having a bit of patience?

16, Mr Spee Atree, good to hear from you, I'll be in touch, Thursday, if not Wednesday.

The fans will turn up in force and support the team. They always do. Me and the kids will be at Wembley. We all moan but the problem I have at the moment is that the signs in the Premier League are there. We are going backwards under Martinez.

You just cannot have blind faith, look at the evidence.

Martinez on the whole has actually been given until recently an easy ride by the press and the fans but you cannot argue with results.

In this media age, he has not helped himself with his inane ramblings and his inability to actually tell it as it is (like Baines did). He has brought a lot of this on himself.

We all love this club, but occasionally disagree on who is best to manage it.

No need ever to ask Evertonians to be patient, Mike Owen. For most of us it has been just one long wait. Waiting for another Catterick, then another Kendall. And even when the latter did return we had to see his bubble burst. Twice.

Since then, we've just been WAITING!

I believe the most positive action we could now see would be prompt action by the Board to replace Martinez as Manager of Everton. Even if there is only an interim replacement until the season ends, I actually believe it would increase our chances of winning the Cup.

I certainly remember Everton being lauded as the "Mersey Millionaires’ in the 1960's. However, upon reflection, I'd say it was a far more even playing field then, with financial clout contributing marginally as far as league and cup dominance was concerned. There was never the gulf there has been since the formation of the Premier league, although the recent TV money distribution appears to be leveling things out once again!

Success seemed to be more evenly distributed with the manager and character of each club's captain and players (real characters which Everton certainly lack today) making the major difference between success and failure.

You only have to see how Bill Shankly took Liverpool, a mediocre 2nd division club, by the scruff of the neck and through his vision and willpower fashioned a club that was to become (I hate to say) probably the most successful club in England.

His character, like many other manager’s at the time (Harry Catterick, Joe Mercer, Bertie Mee, Brian Clough, Bill Nicholson, Matt Busby, Dave MacKay, Ron Saunders, Malcolm Allison, Lawrie McMenemy, Don Revie etc. etc. recruited players and appointed captains in their own mould, who had the character and drive they had to implement their vision on the pitch.

I suppose my point is that I don’t blame the fans at all for any negativity they display. I am certain that if we had a manager and players remotely like those mentioned above, they would have recognised the downward and unacceptable spiral that is Everton today and quickly put it right.

Roberto's job is to effectively manage them. If someone isn't up to the job I have far more respect if they just admit it and walk.

Trying to suggest that he and only HE can see what is really happening on the pitch is at best hubris and at worst frightening delusion.

My sense is that the 'love in' with the media is now at an end and he knows it.

I've read a lot here recently and the general consensus is get rid of Roberto and while I agree I worry that it wont happen. If he gets over the next 2 weeks no matter what the result in the semi, I can certainly see him still being manager at the start of next season, and that's giving me a bloody migraine, just the thought of it.

Do I really believe Kenwright will give him the bullet? No, I can't see it as he shares Roberto's vision and future plans.... What a manager!

Cup runs can mask a multitude of sins – ask Villa fans – but we should not be blinded to the awful reality of EFC 2016.

Solution: win the cup – sack the manager... and bring back the cushions to keep 'em all honest in the future.

When your chairman goes on live TV and claims “What a manager” when it's clear to everyone else he is clearly not cut out to do the job. Banners, social media, blog posts are all needed to help raise awareness of all that's going on EFC. The banners were needed, Baines needed to say what he said, Gareth Barry too.

I am not suggesting this was the correct way to go about it, but challenging Martinez at the Under-21s game was also needed. Its making people ask questions in the media. Much needed questions.

Two new manager whispers in a week (Jurgen Klinsmann, Marco Bielsa) there is no smoke without fire.

In regards to the mood of the camp ahead of the semi-final. Think what the whole ‘new manager' syndrome would do to this team ahead of the Derby, ahead of the cup semi. There's only one reason the mood is all doom and gloom throughout the club currently and that's Roberto Martinez. If he doesn't win tonight and Saturday. I can't see him being there past Monday.

In that scenario, someone like Martinez would never have been hired in the first place. I think the supporters are just sick to death of the false promises, dawns and bullshit malarkey that has gone on for decades. As said already though, they'll get behind the team come the time.

I was never happy with the choice of Martinez and the way it was done but like other blues got behind the man and was pleasantly surprised by the first 9 or 10 months in charge. Then for me the bubble burst and it has been downhill ever since.

Despite your suggestion of banner waving effecting the players negatively the players have given more in the last 2 games and have received massive vocal support from the travelling army. How you can possibly want this obviously inept manager to continue is beyond me but hey you are entitled to your opinion.

Last seasons debacle should have been enough to get him sacked but people used the World Cup and Europa campaign as an excuse and it would all be better this season. Well its not and there is no question it is down to the manager who is not capable of managing at this level.

Just read Dannie Docherty's comments about David Moyes's regime and weep because this clown has undone all that good work.

Link:- https://bdaily.co.uk/business-in-sport/14-04-2016/Evertons-former-head-of-medicine-becomes-entrepreneur-with-new-coaching-business/?

Some of Mike Owen's wishes are shared by me and I'm sure everyone else on TW but under BK our silence would truly be music to his, BK's, ears.

It exasperates me that so-called professional footballers are allegedly too precious to deal with the truth from the fans who pay right through the nose to give them, Martinez, and the board, the opportunity to live the rest of their lives in pampered luxury. I want them to join together indeed, at Finch Farm. I want them to confront the moron and play for the rest of this season like they did last April when they won three on the spin and drew the other. Bainesy, Rom and Seamus went on record to the Press at the time saying the team had reverted to "the old Everton way".

Bring that on again and we might just win the FA Cup but BK and, far more importantly, Mr Moshiri must then recognise success was achieved despite Martinez and not because of him.

He's long since earned the sack.