Knives are sharpening for Roberto

It has nothing to do with your perceived cockiness.

The lack of backup for Lukaku is a massive issue for me. His perceived lack of effort at times is probably because he knows that he will never be given a rest as there is currently nobody else at the club worthy of leading the line.

Seriously, we could find ourselves dragged into a relegation battle if he was suddenly out for the season.

For me his head is not right at the moment and this is likely to be from the Chelsea saga back in September. Therefore he needs to be benched until ready to give his best for the team again.

I don't agree with the marking for Funes Mori or Cleverley either. Funes Mori won some good tackles and got Stones out of trouble a couple of times and Cleverley didn't hide and certainly put the effort in. Pienaar showed just what we'd missed when he's been out for so long.

2. The various players we've had playing in the back line this season are no slouches and would get a game in most other PL teams.

3. Our defensive weaknesses are down to tactics, which are down to the manager (debates as to whether that goal was down to Stones's backpass or Howard's failure to clear are a distraction from the point that the ball should never have still been with Stones to arse around with but should have been safely upfield).

4. The failed tactics are ruining good players – not the other way round.

5. Do not sell those players, who would walk into most other Premier League teams, just to have to assemble another team with the money earned (risks of dud buys; time for new team to gel).

6. Change the manager and therefore the tactics.

7. Change the tune from Z-Cars to Always Look on the Bright Side of Life, or the Monty Python Universe Song.

11 wins in a season and half with these players is a disgusting return. I really do hope the club have the balls to kick him out in the summer.

Stick Moyes as an interim manager. His reputation needs mending and we need to revert back to basic football, which he was very good at. Plus he will finally have a chance to win a trophy if we get into a final.

In the summer find someone with the vision to take this club forward. If the takeover is completed (and I read Phil McNulty's post on this which suggests it is still on) then the new owners may well have the pulling power to attract those who top many people's list – ie, Ronald Koeman, Eddie Howe, Aitor Karanka.

If the takeover is not complete, perhaps use Moyes to groom a successor, be it Unsy, Duncan or Tim Cahill.

Moyes is not good enough in my eyes to turn us into a top 4 team but he does know what it takes to be a competitive top 7 outfit. Martinez fucked up the foundation he was given and it needs to be re-laid.

It couldn't possibly be anything to do with the amount of times we have surrendered 2-goal leads, or our ability to over run teams yet still only draw. Surely it can't be our terrible home form that is creating the nervousness.

I see for whatever reason MotD showed tweets from Rio Ferdinand also having a go at the fans, saying he was glad he learnt his trade at West Ham were they allow young players to make mistakes. Obviously reffering to Stones. Well maybe not learning from mistakes is why West Ham have never won the league.

Also it didn't take Ferdinand long to leave for Leeds then Man Utd. This is the same guy who drove home and forgot to take his drug test, despite being told before training they would be testing him. This is the same guy who refused to play for his country. So I don't think we need take any lessons from him.

Whilst Howard is the worst keeper in the Premier League (and he was as much at fault as Stones for the first yesterday), we should not pour scorn on Howard. He tries his best but he is not good enough and so it is our manager who needs to recognise this and drop him.

As for Stones, he is a class player but his style may sometimes leave him open for the odd mistake. He would benefit from playing alongside a big and powerful defender who attacks the ball, as Ferdinand benefited from being alongside Vidic and there are players of that the around – look at Williams yesterday!

It is Martinez who needs to understand that the best sides do not contain the eleven best footballers but a side that is balanced and one that is prepared to adapt the approach taken depending on the situation being faced. Some of our performances from winning positions have been laughable.

1 win in 10 would put any other manager under pressure, never mind for a team that is believed to be good enough to challenge top 4.

Yet the media simply says of under achieving etc. But Martinez is failing. I've been in 2 minds for some time, but now I'm certain.

Two winters on the trot we have had woeful form, and the manager it seems is unable to turn it around.

We are luck the bottom 4 is so useless, otherwise relegation could be a serious possibility, which is frankly absurd.

Martinez has to go, final or league cup or not. He is woeful.

Who can replace him? With our team, I'm sure many a manger could be convinced to come here. We need a proven winner, no more young mangers. (Eddie Howe, no.)

Let's get a top manager, even if it means breaking the wage budget... A manager that the players will respect and listen to. A manger that will change this team.

I honestly thought with the team we had we could give the title a go, ho wrong I was. Gary Monk from Swansea was sacked with a better record than Martinez.

My concern is with BK really ill nothing will happen. The CEO must sack Martinez if we go out of the two cups

Stones will have in his mind his manager's be all and end all possession instructions but the fucking great big galoot shouldn't dummy a pass to Howard, turn away and then turn right back to him and pass it when the keeper is moving back to his line. The majority of that goal lies with Stones but his mind is full of that dickhead Linda Blair alike on the touchline probably screaming, "possession, possession, possession".

Sick and tired of leaving Goodison feeling like shit and my wife getting the brunt of my bad moods.

Thank God I'm not renewing so my daughter may see a happier side to her dad every weekend from August onwards.

Sadly, no-one at the club seems to give a toss about the fans. Just a few weeks ago, in an interview, Tim Howard basically told the fans to shut up as they didn't know what they were talking about. Two home games ago, John Stones told them to calm down after he thought he was Johan Cruyff in our penalty area. To be fair, he very kindly proved the fans were right yesterday when he farted about like a show pony before giving Howard a delayed back pass and thus gifting Swansea their first goal.

Week after week, after the latest embarrassing debacle a player is rolled out by the club to say we need to do this or that better, but then we still do it as before with no change evident. The stats don't lie, we used to be a regular top six side – last season we finished 11th and this season could be even lower.

Goodison used to be a fortress with regular wins over the top four sides but not anymore, we're now losing regularly at home to Leicester, Stoke and Swansea. We're Wigan in disguise.

Why not put in a call and see if Malky Mackay is still interested?

We should have some self respect as a club and as Evertonian fans to not tolerate the current malaise and aim higher.

Why not Pellegrini? He's settled in the Northwest, won titles here and will be out of a job imminently. Mancini would be another one with the same credentials. A lot of city fans still rate him and thought him harshly dismissed. We have some top players who most managers would jump at the chance to work with, why settle for less?

Martinez – I so wanted him to succeed, mainly because I was bored of Moyes' plucky little Everton attitude. Great squad, not getting results, its the manager. Get rid and we could do worse than bringing Moyes back to manage this squad.

The knives should not be out for Stones, Coleman or any other players, as they are following Martinez's instructions. Not all defenders should be 'footballers', Mountfield, Watson, even the OAP Gough all knew their job and it wasn't building attacks in the opposition's half.

I'm so fed up after yesterday and dreading an embarrassing Wednesday night. I pray to whoever will listen we get another nil-nil and Stoke stuff the devil's team!!

RM has one huge talent and that is the gift of the gab. He'd make a fantastic snake oil salesman. Only issue with being a good bullshitter is that you don't last long in any one place. Eventually people see through the bullshit and realise there's nothing of substance there....

We were in a horrible situation 12 months ago, with the R word being banded about. It took the senior players then to tell RM to stuff it and play more direct to get us out of trouble. 12 months later, we're sill in a horrible situation, only not quite as bad (however, no Europa League to use as an excuse this time). So what now? The players need to go mutiny again? I can't imagine the dressing room is too happy a place right now.

Have sad it a million times, it does not matter how good you are going forward, you simply don't win many matches with a leaky defense and our manager just does not do defense. Most of our back line is made up of seasoned internationals but its about as safe as a fart in a net. We've gone from having one of the best defenses to one of the worst in just 18 months, with pretty much the same players. I am pretty sure Baines and Stones must be a bit nervous about making the England squad for the Euros – if you were Hodgson, would you pick either of them right now?

It's a results business at the end of the day and I cannot imagine starting next season with Stones and Lukaku in the squad. They'll be off in the summer if RM is still in charge (maybe others too: Coleman & Mirallas). Only chance of getting them to stay is to bring in a quality manager. West Ham, Southampton (twice) even Leicester have managed to bring in managers who don't cost the earth but have proven experience (both playing and managing) at the top level. Players want to play for winners at the end of the day. Bullshit only lasts for so long.

I will give credit to RM for one thing, his bullshit was what got the young players to the club in the first place. Now we need someone decent to make the bollocks come true.

If we had a centre-forward that busts a gut to get in the box every time the ball went wide yesterday, he would have had several easy chances. That's not the manager saying "Rom, you take your time and get in the box when you're ready" – that's players not taking responsibility.

When Stones was bringing the ball out from the back, there was no movement by anyone in front of him to get into space to receive the ball; again, that's not the manager saying "Everybody stand still so you are easy to mark" – that's the players not taking responsibility.

As I say, it's easy to blame the manager and his tactics, but the players are on the pitch playing and they need to be intelligent enough and responsible for the performances on the pitch.

Agree with you about Lukaku not attacking the ball enough. But for a team that was losing to one of the bottom teams at home, do you think the tactics were right to find Lukaku, isolated so many times?

Football when I played it was usually about winning. This happened more when players took responsibility (agreed), but it doesn't half work better when everyone knows their job.

You have said it yourself though Simon. Does it really matter if a player takes responsibility under this present regime? Because being really organised, doesn't seem to be part of the plan.

We now have no cover for Coleman. Oviedo looked most uncomfortable and was at fault for the second goal when he left acres of space down the left.

Another bizarre decision was to tell Garbutt he lacked experience at 22, and would be loaned out, then start picking an 18-year-old with no experience at all. We have had problems all season down the left. Surely Garbutt could have done a job there, or allowed Baines to move upfield.

How did the ref not see the handball in the middle of the pitch and it ended up in the back of our net 5 seconds later?

How did the ref not call a PK for a 100% handball against Seamus in the box in the second half?

Is anyone going to get on the end of one of Delo's sublime crosses anytime soon?

I said this last week... Why does John Stones continually fart around with the ball deep in our own end and hurt us? It's not Roberto's instruction as you can clock time with a sundial when Stones gets possession at times.

Felt like I was watching a bad game of basketball there was so much handling!

The rules are so vague. I guess you can only base it on what other refs have given.

The commentators always say how close the person is to the ball and whether they could have moved their hand out of the way but I haven't a clue.

Distance is a factor, but the main one is, "is the arm in a "natural position" when the ball strikes it?" That's actually secondary to "was it intentional" but stick with me.

The first handball the player for Swansea had his arm extended and elevated. In no way a "natural position". Same should have been said for the Seamus incident.

I was flabbergasted when Kevin Kilbane doing commentary here in the States said the Seamus incident wasn't a handball. Both incidences, the defender made himself "bigger" to stop the ball. That's 100% handball every time.

The one in the first half was horrific because it clearly stopped an attacking opportunity going the other way and should have been blown up immediately.

And, we were guilty of like 2-3 handballs that went uncalled.

Terrible refs yesterday and for The Chelsea game. It's like Ref 101 and they ignore it or miss it completely.

• Howard has been shite for ages but is still No 1;
• Stones has been making mistakes all season and hasn't seemed right since the chelsea incident but is still one of the first names on the team sheet;
• We have 3-4 LBs and 1 RB (Hibbo doesn't count);
• We start EVERY game with 1 GK, 4 Defenders and 2 CDMs, i.e. 7 defensive players and yet still ship goals for fun... but we don't change tactics/set up.;
• We still don't have a proper LM;
• We have no proper back up for Lukaku;
• We can't ever play for 90mins (only one half at a time);
• We don't ever up our game until we're a goal down;
• Our team looks knackered on the hour mark, every game;

The players should also accept they haven't been at their game but it's the managers main job to motivate/manage them and sort it out if its not happening on the pitch. Dropping none performing favourites might also be a good idea.

Some players have already said the training regime is suspect under Martinez, fitness wise and he spends bugger all time practising set pieces and defense – surprise surprise, we ship a ton of goals.

End of the day the manager has to accept the praise and the blame. He picks the players after all.

He's made just 6 league appearances out of 23. That's £1M per league game so far. He doesn't even seem to be good enough to cover at RB given Oviedo is playing there!

When you're moving/walking/running I think it's unrealistic to think that your hands would be down by your side (which is what I assume you believe to be a natural position).

Furthermore, to give a free/penalty for the likes of Coleman's incident yesterday would seem to me to be an invitation for the attacking player to intentionally kick the ball against the defender's hand to win the award.

Then again, FIFA seem to get off on the fact that there are so many contentious decisions so having the rules so vague seems to suit them.

This bullshitter is not even good enough for the championship.

Since he took over:

1. We have stopped closing down thus allowing the opposition acres of space to play around us.

2. Not done anything to address the weaknesses in the squad - GK, LM ,cover at RB , cover at CF.

3. Stopped doing defensive drills

4. Encouraged players to make mistakes without consequence

5. Changed fitness routines for the worse.

6. Introduced a formation and tactics that went out with the Ark and are being found out constantly.

7. Been treated to the most insane post match reviews.

He cannot go quick enough for me despite the Capital cup second leg.

TAXI FOR MARTINEZ NOW PLEASE.

We really are total shite under this fucking phony of a manager.

His arm was extended from his body, above his shoulder.

Unnatural position / made himself bigger to stop the path of the ball. PK every time - for me at least.

And you're 100% spot on regarding the vagaries of the laws of the game. The laws of the game are written in such a vague manner and do not cover SO MUCH of SO MANY specific instances that could occur! You rely on what the instructors tell you is the "proper call". It's a joke. And FIFA cover themselves by giving the ref dictatorial power over the game. Whatever the ref says is final.

Quick example of how backwards referring is, at least here and I'm sure it's not far off in England / the UK / Ireland.

My most recent test I took around Christmas for my annual recertification had this question:

From a corner can a goal be scored in either net?

Well yes. But hang on... stupidest question ever why bother asking it to the entry level referee (ergo a hell of a lot of young teenagers looking to AR U10 games and under).

So they want you to know the answer to - IF the man taking a corner calls everyone into the box, including his goal keeper, then inexplicably HAMMERS the ball minimally 100 yards into his OWN GOAL should the goal stand?

What... the... fuck?

Geniuses write these tests, and all the while we had a ref at Chelsea last week who didn't know the "foreign object" ruling and allowed a goal to stand a few years ago after hitting a fucking beach ball and deflecting into goal!!

You can't make this shit up. It's priceless!

I don't have a problem with playing the ball out from the back but the teams that do it well don't piss about with the ball so close to the danger areas. I am not advocating for a route one approach but the ball needs to transition quickly from the back line to the midfield else you are inviting far too much pressure on the defense to avoid making a mistake (that for us this year often end up in the back of our net). That, in my opinion, is the main source of the so-called fear and nervousness rife throughout the squad. Not the home fan reaction as El Bob would have everyone believe. The fan reaction is a natural reaction to witnessing the same result week after week of stubbornly persisting with a style of play that our players are either not capable or not comfortable playing.

I am firmly of the belief now that the current manager is unable and unwilling to adjust or deviate from his tactical philosophies. In one way, you have to admire him for that. However, at the end of the day this is a results-based business. Some very good managers have been sacked overseeing squads performing far better than our current lot. But then again, those sackings were often made by owners/boards who actually had some ambition to progress.

Tough being a Blue these days.

I don't have the nohow to start a campaign to get the board out but I would certainly be a good follower. It needs action and now we need more than planes flying overhead. (No disrespect to those who organised that, btw.)

I have seen every game this season and quite honestly on every occasion the opposition moves forward, Everton look vulnerable. All teams have caught on to this aspect now, knowing of Everton's shakiness and it's hardly surprising why the goals have been flowing in against them.

It would need a miracle to keep City from scoring the one goal they need on Wednesday and I am not so sure about keeping Carlisle out in the cup game. Roberto has not been able to change things no matter what and his after match comments are just inane.

How can the players and the fans have any confidence in him. Is this not the right time to make the change?

Also, there is no "handball rule" per say. It is a sub-section of Law 12, fouls and misconduct.

The ruling is below for all of you would-be refs.

LAW 12 – FOULS AND MISCONDUCT

Handling the ball:

Handling the ball involves a deliberate act of a player making contact with the ball with his hand or arm. The referee must take the following into consideration:

– the movement of the hand towards the ball (not the ball towards the hand)

– the distance between the opponent and the ball (unexpected ball)

– the position of the hand does not necessarily mean that there is an infringement

– touching the ball with an object held in the hand (clothing, shinguard, etc.) counts as an infringement

– hitting the ball with a thrown object (boot, shinguard, etc.) counts as an infringement.

But they definitely tell you over here in the mandatory courses you take that handball parameters are intent, "natural" position, making yourself "bigger" etc...

And therein lies the vagaries of the Laws of the Game.

And yes Shane to my knowledge (check me on this Barry) you can, if you posses no brains and a nuclear foot, score an OG from a corner. It's a direct free kick not indirect, ergo it can go into the goal directly and count.

But the question is still asinine.

I would certainly NOT think in any way that it was...

Beneath us!

I do like the ruling in that is states that there must be a deliberate attempt to block the ball, it must be hand to ball, not ball to hand. I find that this is often overlooked in the game these days, even by top class officials, who seem to go for the unnatural position interpretation.

One outstanding issue though is this last tackler thing which totally ruined the Arsenal vs Chelsea match when Mertesacker was sent off. Why is a foul from the last defender any different from a foul by any other player?

Totally ruined a game for many people who spent money to see the game and totally unacceptable on the whim of a ref.

The key Arsenal - Chelsea game was ruined by a bad decision and tens of thousands of working class people robbed of good money spent to watch a fair game. Sending off should be banned for anything other than violence.

It is really, really a judgment call. In this instance my opinion is it has to be a handball. It was, admittedly, much more ball to hand than hand to ball. But the defender purposely extends that arm outwards from his body so there's more "surface area" in order to potentially stop a threatening ball into the box.

These guys do this on purpose – seen it 1000 times – to try to get away with blocking the ball and making it look like it's part of a "natural" motion. They know what they're doing and are looking to gain an advantage in any and every aspect. So to me making yourself "bigger" is actually intentionally stopping the ball with your hand. The goal is to stop the cross / shot. By moving your arm out from your body you're intentionally stopping the ball with said arm should the ball strike it... It's not like running along with your arms down or at the sides and the ball hits you.

When you extend your leg to stop a cross I can see someone's arm coming out a bit. But when that arm is raised to shoulder level and extended out?

I dunno.

Martin – last defender = stopping a goal scoring opportunity = straight red. That's it. That one's very clear except... You're supposed to take distance from the goal into account as well.

Don't get mad at the ref for that – get mad at the idiot player for doing it.

His arms are out to stop the ball going past him.

And before anyone says where else could his arms be, look at Ivanovich at Chelsea. Always has his hands tucked behind his back in those situations, so it can be done.

Has to be a handball.

Happy someone agrees David!

Anyway, it has interpretations and regards Law 12, the guidance is to consider 4 aspects. Proximity, Movement, Unnatural position and whether the body is made bigger by the action of the apparent offender. Ball to hand will likely only be for small spaces and the Unnatural piece is an interpretation as to whether the offender has his offending part of body (arm/hand) in a natural position. Your hand stuck out or up or whatever is likely to be unnatural.

Like Offside, handball is not an offence in its own right, the offence is deliberate handball, and the guidance above was explained to me in a meeting of Stockport Referees Society by football league ref, Micheal Salisbury.

Martin, regards the Arsenal,player, the offence is referred to as a DOGSO. The key is the definition of Denying Obvious Goal Scoring Opportunity. I believe the key is "Obvious" I.e at the level the player is playing at, is it obvious? Costa through on goal on a perfect pitch with no other defenders likely to be able to cover is different than say me through on goal on a park pitch in muddy March. That said, I thought that the defender in this case did not make much if any contact and also suspect the covering defender may have got there. "Last man" is not an offence.

Infuriating as it may be, the Laws state that the decisions are based on the opinion of the referee, who is a trained professional, whose fitness is monitored daily, who is formally assessed by qualified assessor at every game.

While debate on here and watching the telephone is great, I do feel that anyone earning money from the game, players and especially pundits should be qualified as a ref, with some sort of annual accreditation, they earn enough from the game, so that at least when they speak or comment, we know they do so from a basis of fact from which we may all learn from.

Hope this helps, best, Ian

Do you think so Colin? I would indeed like to think so too, but Kenwright is just as stubborn as Martinez when it comes to decision making. I can't see anything happening before the end of the season. Right now we are not relegation threatened (although we could be soon) and that is normally when the firing squad is wheeled out.